FabSwingers.com forum: Confederate statues

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I see they are destroying American history, removing historic statues, its happening in England to, they pulled down a slave traders statue in Bristol today and dumped it in the river. You can not judge historic figures by the standards of today!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I see they are destroying American history, removing historic statues, its happening in England to, they pulled down a slave traders statue in Bristol today and dumped it in the river. You can not judge historic figures by the standards of today! "

Honestly its the same thing as the Taliban destroying ancient statues all over Afghanistan.

This is the millenials method of doing things.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely don’t agree with vandalism of any kind.

However I think the Edward Colston statue should’ve been removed a long time ago, pretty sure people had been asking for it to be removed for years.

It should be in a museum for education of the slave trade or something.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

It would have been far more effective putting a information sign up detailing the slave trade and his part in it, as it would make people really think about it. Destruction of the statue won't change history, who is next, Cecil rhodes? Oliver Cromwell?

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By *ock2shareMan
over a year ago

Happyville

[Removed by poster at 08/06/20 13:46:19]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would have been far more effective putting a information sign up detailing the slave trade and his part in it, as it would make people really think about it. Destruction of the statue won't change history, who is next, Cecil rhodes? Oliver Cromwell? "

Unfortunately its a matter of perspective. When people don't like history they destroy it or change it. They should just do the best thing and learn from it and leave it in the past

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *ock2shareMan
over a year ago

Happyville

Now people are going to be worrying if In the future it won’t be just statues the mobs will be attacking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Now people are going to be worrying if In the future it won’t be just statues the mobs will be attacking."

Everything goes around in about a 30 to 40 year cycle. The problem is that generation will be throwing the millenials and such in the river or in the dump or whatever it is at the time.

Honestly history is a bitch. If you don't learn from it you get run over by it and forgotten.

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By *ock2shareMan
over a year ago

Happyville

Why don’t they just burn all the books as well while they’ve at it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why don’t they just burn all the books as well while they’ve at it."

Thank you "Ray Bradbury"

"Fahrenheit 451"

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Pulled Edward Colston statue down in Bristol, why not replace with statue of William Wilberforce who got slavery outlawed in the British empire?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

There taking down Robert e Lee s statue and four other confederate generals down in Richmond Virginia, how long before Oliver Cromwell and Cecil rhodes get pulled down in England by these idiots!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pulled Edward Colston statue down in Bristol, why not replace with statue of William Wilberforce who got slavery outlawed in the British empire? "

Why havnt they put a statue up already? Because all those british slavers where celebrated for being wealthy. Tear them all down, teach the truth of the slave trade and the colonial empire in schools.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The slave trade is a dark and shameful episode in British history, but you can not judge historic figures by the standards of today. Will we be educating in schools about Robert mugabe and his hatred of white people, and his genocide of another tribe after independence? How he plundered Zimbabwe for his own enrichment, and wanted to repatriate Ian Smiths corpse to the UK. He also wanted to dig up Cecil rhodes and repatriate his body to the UK. There were a lot worse colonial powers than the uk

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By *ud and BryanCouple
over a year ago

Boston, Lincolnshire

"The slave trade is a dark and shameful episode in British history, but you can not judge historic figures by the standards of today. Will we be educating in schools about Robert mugabe and his hatred of white people, and his genocide of another tribe after independence? How he plundered Zimbabwe for his own enrichment, and wanted to repatriate Ian Smiths corpse to the UK. He also wanted to dig up Cecil rhodes and repatriate his body to the UK. There were a lot worse colonial powers than the uk"

Exactly!

They're are way too many people causing trouble because they're offended. These people have to learn they can't sanitize history.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Just has I predicted, in Oxford they want to remove statue of Cecil rhodes. Trying to destroy our country's history and heritage, where will it end?

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By *ock2shareMan
over a year ago

Happyville

Welcome to the multiracial society

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Welcome to the multiracial society "

What does that have to do with this topic?

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By *ock2shareMan
over a year ago

Happyville

Everything

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everything "

In what way?

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By *nB23Man
over a year ago

London

Exactly!

They're are way too many people causing trouble because they're offended. These people have to learn they can't sanitize history."

That's a bit rich considering that if you look at history, it's been sanitized a great deal from Christopher Columbus to the attrocities commited by European colonial powers. The problem is figures tend to be celebrated whilst massacres are conveniently overlooked. The full picture is rarely ever told. That's the problem I have with the statues and history literature.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ok I’m Irish I’ve a fair idea about American History and the confederate statue’s and wat it stands for ! So my question is are they talking about taking them down ??? That’s gonna cause a fucking shit storm right ????

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By *ock2shareMan
over a year ago

Happyville

"Everything

In what way?"

Your obviously not reading or understanding what’s this thread is truly about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everything

In what way?

Your obviously not reading or understanding what’s this thread is truly about."

I know exactly what this thread is about, thank you.

I’m asking why you said “ Welcome to the multiracial society” as a response. Can you elaborate?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hopefully

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By *ock2shareMan
over a year ago

Happyville

"Everything

In what way?

Your obviously not reading or understanding what’s this thread is truly about.

I know exactly what this thread is about, thank you.

I’m asking why you said “ Welcome to the multiracial society” as a response. Can you elaborate? "

Wasup don’t you like living in a multiracial society ?

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By *ananas57Couple
over a year ago

lake ariel

Maybe we should erase Martin Luther King from the history books too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everything

In what way?

Your obviously not reading or understanding what’s this thread is truly about.

I know exactly what this thread is about, thank you.

I’m asking why you said “ Welcome to the multiracial society” as a response. Can you elaborate?

Wasup don’t you like living in a multiracial society ?"

I’m perfectly happy living in one. Are you?

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By *ock2shareMan
over a year ago

Happyville

"Everything

In what way?

Your obviously not reading or understanding what’s this thread is truly about.

I know exactly what this thread is about, thank you.

I’m asking why you said “ Welcome to the multiracial society” as a response. Can you elaborate?

Wasup don’t you like living in a multiracial society ?

I’m perfectly happy living in one. Are you?"

Damn right we wouldn’t have all that lovely black pussy else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everything

In what way?

Your obviously not reading or understanding what’s this thread is truly about.

I know exactly what this thread is about, thank you.

I’m asking why you said “ Welcome to the multiracial society” as a response. Can you elaborate?

Wasup don’t you like living in a multiracial society ?

I’m perfectly happy living in one. Are you?"

I’ve no clue ( na I do ) anyway since the Irish forums are content on talking about the weather and other such riveting topics and you guys are obviously going at it ??? I’m gonna turn this conversation left !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everything

In what way?

Your obviously not reading or understanding what’s this thread is truly about.

I know exactly what this thread is about, thank you.

I’m asking why you said “ Welcome to the multiracial society” as a response. Can you elaborate?

Wasup don’t you like living in a multiracial society ?

I’m perfectly happy living in one. Are you?

Ha! I was just asking a question!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"There taking down Robert e Lee s statue and four other confederate generals down in Richmond Virginia, how long before Oliver Cromwell and Cecil rhodes get pulled down in England by these idiots! "

a) notice... no oliver cromwell statues in ireland...all pulled down because his history there was abhorant!

b) the statues in richmond were only put up in the 60's... they were put there to signify history, they were put up there as a big "fuck you!" to the then civil rights movement!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everything

In what way?

Your obviously not reading or understanding what’s this thread is truly about.

I know exactly what this thread is about, thank you.

I’m asking why you said “ Welcome to the multiracial society” as a response. Can you elaborate?

Wasup don’t you like living in a multiracial society ?

I’m perfectly happy living in one. Are you?

Ha! I was just asking a question!

I just breezed through very cheeky ! It’s a hot topic ain’t it ! I called it earlier haha anyway I Think I’ll moon walk out of this one couldn’t even contemplate where to begin ????you enjoy

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The Robert e Lee statue was put up in 1890,i can see it could be very offensive to people of colour, I personally deplore racism, but it doesn't change history, these people lived in another time, with different values, there are even pictures of confederacy soldiers with their black retainers, the confederacy even considered arming black soldiers, but the war ended before it happened, and was opposed by jeferson Davis, the president of the confederacy. As for Oliver Cromwell, a very devisive figure, but he changed this country forever, his conduct in Ireland, reconquering Ireland for the English parliament, is controversial, but he needed to secure England from attack from a Irish Catholic army, which was a very real possibility, that Charles Stuart was hoping to do. His statue stands outside the houses of Parliament for good reason. He was Lord protector, and did safeguard England.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Robert e Lee statue was put up in 1890,i can see it could be very offensive to people of colour, I personally deplore racism, but it doesn't change history, these people lived in another time, with different values, there are even pictures of confederacy soldiers with their black retainers, the confederacy even considered arming black soldiers, but the war ended before it happened, and was opposed by jeferson Davis, the president of the confederacy. As for Oliver Cromwell, a very devisive figure, but he changed this country forever, his conduct in Ireland, reconquering Ireland for the English parliament, is controversial, but he needed to secure England from attack from a Irish Catholic army, which was a very real possibility, that Charles Stuart was hoping to do. His statue stands outside the houses of Parliament for good reason. He was Lord protector, and did safeguard England. "

Sorry I do know my irish history sorry I skipped a beat there or maybe I picked ur point up wrong ??? Do elaborate about his conduct In reconquering Ireland ? Ye know wat fuck it ye’s wer blown out of most of the country anyway let’s not go there

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Cromwell had to defeat a very real threat to the English commonwealth, from a Catholic army. Charles Stuart had intended to use troops from Ireland, Scotland and France, to retain his crown and power, and his wife wanted him to become a Catholic and return England to the church of Rome. He was ruthless in Ireland, but probably no worse than any other military commander of the time, the siege at drogheda, is infamous, but the garrison commander was a English Catholic, as were half the defendants were English Catholics. This was about religion,and the survival of the English commonwealth which was under great threat from invasion. And he won on all fronts. He defeated Charles the second at the Battle of Worcester. Cromwell was exhumed by the coward after his death and hung drawn and quartered, as he could not defeat him in life. Controversial figure, yes, but a brave man.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

By the way, I really like Ireland, and love Guinness, and Dublin. It's just history is not black and white.

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By *rmrspumpCouple
over a year ago

narnia

[Removed by poster at 10/06/20 21:32:40]

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By *rmrspumpCouple
over a year ago

narnia

"By the way, I really like Ireland, and love Guinness, and Dublin. It's just history is not black and white. "

So basically your point is that all of the atrocities committed by the English in Ireland are justified because they because they achieved thier purpose??

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

No, I am just saying history is not black and white, there were reasons for Cromwell reconquering Ireland,from a military perspective. England should have left Ireland a long time ago, its a terrible shame it didn't,. Gladstone tried to let it go its own way, in the 1850s,which would have been the best thing. It is a terrible shame how history turned out, for two nations who should have been great friends. Let's hope that in the future we will be, the great friends we always should have been, and leave the past where it belongs..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"By the way, I really like Ireland, and love Guinness, and Dublin. It's just history is not black and white.

So basically your point is that all of the atrocities committed by the English in Ireland are justified because they because they achieved thier purpose??"

I’m glad you like Guinness ha and look we could be here all day

I felt wat was said was insensitive but look I apologize for that snide remark that was no better ! you’s know This is a touchy subject on both sides agreed ??? I’d rather spend my time here enjoying people’s conversation and not drag up stuff that will lead to nothing but nonsense and a shit load of tension and for what ??? And just to be clear cause I appreciate how you handled that question no I personally don’t condone any actions taken after Ireland got its independence !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, I am just saying history is not black and white, there were reasons for Cromwell reconquering Ireland,from a military perspective. England should have left Ireland a long time ago, its a terrible shame it didn't,. Gladstone tried to let it go its own way, in the 1850s,which would have been the best thing. It is a terrible shame how history turned out, for two nations who should have been great friends. Let's hope that in the future we will be, the great friends we always should have been, and leave the past where it belongs.. "

I didn’t read these and my response was not as well wrote out ha but yes very well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is no way anybody can try to rationalize what was going through somebody's mind a 150 to 200 years ago when slavery was rampant throughout Europe and North America. To go back and read the history books the way it was truly done most places that the slaves were acquired in Africa were sold to the slave traders by other blacks one conquering tribe would take out a neighboring tribe so all the men off and r*** and plunder the village. So slavery was not a white thing only. The try to white wash it or dispose of the markers that talk about it by making history supposedly disappear " The removal of the statue in Bristol" or "the removal of the Confederate general statues and plaques here in the United States" Is one group of peoples method of making it never have happened. As of noon today nascar the largest race organization in the country has banned the Confederate flag on any and all vehicles stadiums or commercials the banning a flag. This hast and everybody's gonna have their feelings hurt for something there is nothing that's gonna make everybody happy

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By *exyredheadtattooCouple
over a year ago

Beaumont

You can't change history or destroy it, it has already happened. Keeping other generations from learning about history will only end up with them repeating past mistakes. My opinion anyway. We aren't all proud of our history with slavery, but learning about it shows us how far we have come.

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By *ireman28Man
over a year ago

Derbyshire Nottinghamshire

I think the attempted burning of the Union Jack and damage done to the Cenotaph and war memorials in London is sickening.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

It should be a criminal offence to burn the union Jack. Disgusting disrespectful treatment of our nations emblem

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It should be a criminal offence to burn the union Jack. Disgusting disrespectful treatment of our nations emblem "
Shirley you for real haha this is still going !!! Getting some mileage out of this hot topic

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By *hoco DMan
over a year ago

Clapham

"You can't change history or destroy it, it has already happened. Keeping other generations from learning about history will only end up with them repeating past mistakes. My opinion anyway. We aren't all proud of our history with slavery, but learning about it shows us how far we have come."

you can be change history,and it's already been done through the lies and part truths has distorted history and this is what they teach us, the reason are pulling down statues is because we live in age were you can easily find truth for you self and don't have to follow the school and media brain washing, post like this show how far we have really come how much further we need to go

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It should be a criminal offence to burn the union Jack. Disgusting disrespectful treatment of our nations emblem "

I think it’s truth disrespectful to burn a flag, I really do.

However how many were equally as outraged when Brexiteers tried to burn the EU flag when we left? I bet a lot are now condemning that criminal who tried to burn the Union Jack...

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By *ichiebigMan
over a year ago

nenagh

"It should be a criminal offence to burn the union Jack. Disgusting disrespectful treatment of our nations emblem

I think it’s truth disrespectful to burn a flag, I really do.

However how many were equally as outraged when Brexiteers tried to burn the EU flag when we left? I bet a lot are now condemning that criminal who tried to burn the Union Jack... "

Ever wonder why we call the union jack the butcher's apron

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"It should be a criminal offence to burn the union Jack. Disgusting disrespectful treatment of our nations emblem "

Sieg Heil, Shirley.

Don't you know that the British empire was the most murderous, enslaving, genocidal, asset-stripping in the history of mankind?

Stalin, Mao, Rome and the Third Reich don't come close.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I am proud of Britain and its great history, and will proudly fly the union Jack.

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By *ashy85Man
over a year ago

Waterford

"It should be a criminal offence to burn the union Jack. Disgusting disrespectful treatment of our nations emblem

Sieg Heil, Shirley.

Don't you know that the British empire was the most murderous, enslaving, genocidal, asset-stripping in the history of mankind?

Stalin, Mao, Rome and the Third Reich don't come close. "

I think Khan was worse than all of them

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By *rax and MantisCouple
over a year ago

Epsom

"There taking down Robert e Lee s statue and four other confederate generals down in Richmond Virginia, how long before Oliver Cromwell and Cecil rhodes get pulled down in England by these idiots! "

They're on the list...

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By *rax and MantisCouple
over a year ago

Epsom

"It should be a criminal offence to burn the union Jack. Disgusting disrespectful treatment of our nations emblem

Sieg Heil, Shirley.

Don't you know that the British empire was the most murderous, enslaving, genocidal, asset-stripping in the history of mankind?

Stalin, Mao, Rome and the Third Reich don't come close. "

I think you might need to read up on the Belgium empire in the Congo...

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By *hoco DMan
over a year ago

Clapham

"It should be a criminal offence to burn the union Jack. Disgusting disrespectful treatment of our nations emblem

Sieg Heil, Shirley.

Don't you know that the British empire was the most murderous, enslaving, genocidal, asset-stripping in the history of mankind?

Stalin, Mao, Rome and the Third Reich don't come close.

I think you might need to read up on the Belgium empire in the Congo..."

I think you need to read up the british empire, digest and come to terms with what they did, no amount of look what they did will change the fact that the british empire was the evilist that ever exsised

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The British empire was not perfect by any means, but it was a family of nations regardless of colour that were family. That is why I feel a kinship with people of colour who were part of that empire, more so than Europeans. It is a family and still endures. I am not excusing the wrongs at all. But the ties remain to this day. If you think we were bad, read up on the Spanish and Portuguese record, it's awful, we are not blameless but other nations were far worse.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

That is why with brexit our former colonies hopefully will get priority to come to the UK. As they are family regardless of colour. Why is that so bad?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why don’t they just burn all the books as well while they’ve at it."

Shhhh! Don't put ideas in their heads

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

auschwitz is a good example regarding these statues, memorials whatever you call them should be preserved as historical antiques to reflect the people and events of that time.. And to not forget the atrocities committed for the future generations.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Give it time and the millenials and Gen X'ers will try to justify taking down the 9/11 memorial or the Washington Monument or the Jefferson memorial (just to name a few)

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

Should native Americans jump onto this bandwagon too?

America is a them-and-us country. Very polarised and it shows in programmes like Friends and The Fresh Prince of Bel Air. At least Diff'rent Strokes had a good mix of black and white characters and that was in the 1980s.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I liked that show

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By *hoco DMan
over a year ago

Clapham

"The British empire was not perfect by any means, but it was a family of nations regardless of colour that were family. That is why I feel a kinship with people of colour who were part of that empire, more so than Europeans. It is a family and still endures. I am not excusing the wrongs at all. But the ties remain to this day. If you think we were bad, read up on the Spanish and Portuguese record, it's awful, we are not blameless but other nations were far worse. "

wow ignorance is so bliss,

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By *rmrspumpCouple
over a year ago

narnia

wow ignorance is so bliss,

It's laughable..

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By *wosmilersCouple
over a year ago

Heathrowish

If all symbols of slavery are destroyed or removed, Rome would have a lot of spare building space and the Pyramids would be reduced to rubble. The Parthenon in Athens would be flattened and much of the remaining tribal structures in South and Central America would have to go as well. These monuments were built by slaves to glorify the imperial powers that enslaved them and to send a message to the world.

We should not be celebrating the slavers. Nor should we try to wipe them from history in a 21st century rewrite.

All existing symbols should be displayed in context.

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By *rmrspumpCouple
over a year ago

narnia

wow ignorance is so bliss,

It's like an serial ra-pist explaining just how lovely all the women he's brutalised are

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I think the British empire was pretty amazing, and some of the people in it had incredible lives,and were inspirational people. Some were flawed and deaply troubled, but inspirational non the less. Might not fit the pc brigade agenda,of today, but people are entitled to a different opinion in a democracy.

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By *rmrspumpCouple
over a year ago

narnia

"I think the British empire was pretty amazing, and some of the people in it had incredible lives,and were inspirational people. Some were flawed and deaply troubled, but inspirational non the less. Might not fit the pc brigade agenda,of today, but people are entitled to a different opinion in a democracy. "

You see thing is, the British Empire did not bring democracy to those lands that they took control of, for those lands democracy was hard won FROM the British! You may want to remove your red white and blue tinted spectacles and see the British empire for what it was

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

It's simple, if people hate Britain and its history and culture then Leave!

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

"Why don’t they just burn all the books as well while they’ve at it.

Shhhh! Don't put ideas in their heads "

How about a book, that describes the censorship and burning of books: only to get banned itself, just because some bible basher got offended.

Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury

But there is a heavily altered anthology that is suitable for children and their moral well being.

Cannabalism, never seem to see this sort of passage in The Simpsoms; wonder why?

Deuteronomy 28:53 English Standard Version (ESV). 53 And you shall eat the fruit of your womb, the flesh of your sons and daughters, whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemies shall distress you.

Taken out of context?

What a rubbish apologist response.

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By *rmrspumpCouple
over a year ago

narnia

"It's simple, if people hate Britain and its history and culture then Leave! "

Ahh, the true colours emerge

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By *omtom7Man
over a year ago

Tralee

Should the real focus and effort not be improving things for marginalised and persecuted people now, not dragging up everything thats already happened a long time ago. I'm Irish and from a strong republican background, but going on about Cromwell, William of Orange or Thatcher won't help struggling families north and south in Ireland today. All over the world the focus should be on helping people improve their lot and not waste all the attention on past wrongs. You learn ABOUT the past, you learn FROM the past but you can't live IN the past

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Trump said that they have those who did it on cctv, so they will get sentenced, which is a good news

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By *ichiebigMan
over a year ago

nenagh

"Should the real focus and effort not be improving things for marginalised and persecuted people now, not dragging up everything thats already happened a long time ago. I'm Irish and from a strong republican background, but going on about Cromwell, William of Orange or Thatcher won't help struggling families north and south in Ireland today. All over the world the focus should be on helping people improve their lot and not waste all the attention on past wrongs. You learn ABOUT the past, you learn FROM the past but you can't live IN the past"

You are so right, nobody suffered like the Irish, when I lived in London in the 80s you were always terrified of the knock on the door from the special branch, then you were in for 7 days with no solicitor, scary times, but still my generation worked on 7 days a week for resonable money, every bob of which we spent in the pub, tough enough time to be Irish, but we made the best of it, never expected sinn fein to pay all our bills like today

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By *u81Man
over a year ago

springfield

not to be rude but it is sad lame people has to distroy history,, that is a lot of what is wrong with not knowing the past is history.. to me folks should grow up .. there is nothing that has happened to them.. you cant judge folks in todays times about what happened 200 years ago plus.. and i think that them people distroying things should be locked up and made to pay for the distruction they have cause.. would only be right.. then maybe folks would not thing they have a right to distroy things..

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By *egionaireMan
over a year ago

ramsey

Whilst we are in the period of pulling down and destroying historical monuments statues let's consider destroying the following. Hadrians wall and all the Norman castles and churchs.

Both invaded and enslaved the local British population

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whilst we are in the period of pulling down and destroying historical monuments statues let's consider destroying the following. Hadrians wall and all the Norman castles and churchs.

Both invaded and enslaved the local British population

Well. The emperor Constantine's statue in York is "being looked at". Because, whilst he was the first Roman emperor to embrace Christianity, he also owned slaves. The shock. The horror.

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By *hoco DMan
over a year ago

Clapham

"Whilst we are in the period of pulling down and destroying historical monuments statues let's consider destroying the following. Hadrians wall and all the Norman castles and churchs.

Both invaded and enslaved the local British population

Well. The emperor Constantine's statue in York is "being looked at". Because, whilst he was the first Roman emperor to embrace Christianity, he also owned slaves. The shock. The horror. "

embrace Christianity

I think you mean twisted it to his liking and compiled his own version, this could very well where the british “stole“ the idea of twisting history to play to there narrative

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By *olden_Road_to_SamarkandMan
over a year ago

London & North Wessex Downs

I would tend to agree, but I'm led to believe that quite a few of those statues (unlike ours in the UK) were put up in the 1950s as a 'reminder' after the end of segregation......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Real history is never tought in schools anyway the only reasons theres statues of slave traders out there is because they made shitloads of money buying and selling slaves and other merchendice then bought a nighthood or the equivalent or donated big money to some political party..! The whole sytem has been rigged since the Romans were in power.Thousands of black and Asians were used as cannon fodder in wars throughout history.There never remembered for there sacrifices yet evey year theres armistice day and silence for the white fallen soldiers of war.?? Typical instinctual racist behaviour, the Chinese buit the railroads in America.black people were forced to work the land and build America..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Big difference them staute stand proudly with arrogance like the sites that Saddam Hussein had.no one had a problem with that history distort. Even the bird brains had the intelligent to know it was wrong to glorify dispicible people.. hence pigeon shitting competitions like the Olympic shitting games target practice.

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

"Real history is never tought in schools anyway the only reasons theres statues of slave traders out there is because they made shitloads of money buying and selling slaves and other merchendice then bought a nighthood or the equivalent or donated big money to some political party..! The whole sytem has been rigged since the Romans were in power.Thousands of black and Asians were used as cannon fodder in wars throughout history.There never remembered for there sacrifices yet evey year theres armistice day and silence for the white fallen soldiers of war.?? Typical instinctual racist behaviour, the Chinese buit the railroads in America.black people were forced to work the land and build America.. "

White Irish used as slaves too. Oh sorry perhaps that's the wrong skin colour for you? Slavery has gone on from the beginning of time. If people are so hell bent on destroying history, then crack on. Have a go at the pyramids and Watling Street to name just two. Let's not just stop at a few statues, at least do it properly.

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By *rishmocha2Couple
over a year ago

Beds

"White Irish Slaves" this isn't quite true, these were indentured servant, signed to a contract, maximum of 7 years. They were not classed as property, they also had legal protection, you could kill a slave, but not a servant. Their offspring were not under contract, whereas a slave could have children & they were owned as property.

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By *illi3736Woman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Why put up statues to the losing side in a civil war ?....They lost the war and the argument. Theres not too many Hitler statues in Germany or of any of his nazi leadership.

The killing of fellow Americans is not something to be glorified.

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By *ichiebigMan
over a year ago

nenagh

""White Irish Slaves" this isn't quite true, these were indentured servant, signed to a contract, maximum of 7 years. They were not classed as property, they also had legal protection, you could kill a slave, but not a servant. Their offspring were not under contract, whereas a slave could have children & they were owned as property. "
the first mass arrival of slaves in the new world were young Irish men and women who were transported across the Atlantic following the upheaval of the cromwelling war in the mid 17th century, these were true slaves and there desendents can be found scattered across the Caribbean islands, particularly the island of monesterat where Irish names like o'connor and o'malley abound, they are

Know to this day as the black Irish,

The indentured servants you speak about were actually treated far worse than the black slaves as after there term of service they were technically free, so they were starved and worked to death in those 7 years as after this they had no value whereas a black slave and there offspring being properly had a value so it was in the interest of the plantation owner to keep them alive, such was the value of human life in this part of the world in the 18th century

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why put up statues to the losing side in a civil war ?....They lost the war and the argument. Theres not too many Hitler statues in Germany or of any of his nazi leadership.

The killing of fellow Americans is not something to be glorified. "

Most of the statues Re of famous general's or such. They were strategy and tactical masters, whos battlefield plans are still studied today. Its the same for the English, wellington was famous for his strategy.

Others are placed for the contribution or some act of valor they performed.

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By *hoco DMan
over a year ago

Clapham

""White Irish Slaves" this isn't quite true, these were indentured servant, signed to a contract, maximum of 7 years. They were not classed as property, they also had legal protection, you could kill a slave, but not a servant. Their offspring were not under contract, whereas a slave could have children & they were owned as property. the first mass arrival of slaves in the new world were young Irish men and women who were transported across the Atlantic following the upheaval of the cromwelling war in the mid 17th century, these were true slaves and there desendents can be found scattered across the Caribbean islands, particularly the island of monesterat where Irish names like o'connor and o'malley abound, they are

Know to this day as the black Irish,

As for the Irish slaves, me personally I know nothing about this its something I would need to read up on before I could comment, as for black slaves being treated better because of the value for human life is Bullocks as blacks people in this time were not class as humans bit as "live stock" and it dose not take must looking to find this out. And it this mentality of "oh just get over it" or "it was a long time ago" if you don't like it go back to.." is what we are sick of. Why is it when black voice their opinion about something they seems to always be some backlash. If you discussion about the "cromwelling war" then start a thread about it, instead of saying crap about the history of others

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By *astMidsCouple555Couple
over a year ago

Leicester

Rhodes hopefully

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

""White Irish Slaves" this isn't quite true, these were indentured servant, signed to a contract, maximum of 7 years. They were not classed as property, they also had legal protection, you could kill a slave, but not a servant. Their offspring were not under contract, whereas a slave could have children & they were owned as property. the first mass arrival of slaves in the new world were young Irish men and women who were transported across the Atlantic following the upheaval of the cromwelling war in the mid 17th century, these were true slaves and there desendents can be found scattered across the Caribbean islands, particularly the island of monesterat where Irish names like o'connor and o'malley abound, they are

Know to this day as the black Irish,

Slavery in all its forms is not exclusively a white on black issue. I think that was more the point, to get a different perspective, rather than a backlash.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whilst we are in the period of pulling down and destroying historical monuments statues let's consider destroying the following. Hadrians wall and all the Norman castles and churchs.

Both invaded and enslaved the local British population

Well. The emperor Constantine's statue in York is "being looked at". Because, whilst he was the first Roman emperor to embrace Christianity, he also owned slaves. The shock. The horror.

embrace Christianity

I think you mean twisted it to his liking and compiled his own version, this could very well where the british “stole“ the idea of twisting history to play to there narrative "

Yes. I missed the speech markers around the word embraced as you're right, it was a bastardised form of Christianity. He only accepted it as a political ploy knowing that the Christians were getting stronger in will and larger in number. So, instead of fighting what he knew he couldn't win he took it and moulded it to Rome's advantage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For every statue that is visible it always inspires kids to ask the question "who's that, mammy/daddy?" To which the lesson can be tought who that person was, what he/she represented. It doesn't matter what feelings are stirred, it is a chance for each generation to learn about their nation and other nation's history; the good, the bad and the down right ugly!

If the status aren't there questions aren't asked. There's no 'faces' to represent the stories of any of our nations.

What the rioters have done with the backing of elected officials is dessicated, destroyed, defaced and obliterated the statutes and monuments of not only slave owners and Confederate supporters but also those of the Union who fought the confederacy.

Now, you can question all you want the morals and personal convictions even of the Union troops. But, nonetheless, it was they who brought an end to slavery in the south. Even the statue of Abraham Lincoln is also in their sights.

But, the most telling of all of this is the fact that a cenotaph dedicated to a regiment comprised entirely of black soldiers fighting to help free their friends and families in the south (many of them were once slaves of the South themselves) was also targeted.

This speaks volumes. Either, these rioters are just ignorant to their history; it's a swarm mentality and they just got carried away; or, there's a deeper political reasoning behind all of this.

They even oppose having the statutes brought down and displayed in museums and the like.

And all of this whilst calling to defund and disband the police.

These are Marxists (the organisations). The leaders of BLM have publicly said so. In that case, it isn't just the 'bad' history they want rid of. It's history full stop.

That goes for Antifa and BLM globally. They don't want people learning about the history of their nation, because they don't want the nation to exist.

That to me is the most devastating and heartbreaking thing because in this, in the end, no one wins.

And to know that this is the world that my kids are growing up in...I will make sure they keep reading books and not relying on the internet for their information on the past.

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By *ORDERMANMan
over a year ago

wrexham

As countless others have said you cant change history.

But going back to the subject of the thread title, and in particular Robert E. Lee.

One wonders would his statute be targeted had he remained a union general.

Firstly Robert E. Lee is recognised by many military historians as one of the finest military tactical generals the USA has ever had even even though he fought on the side of the confedracy.

How many people know he almost didnt.

At the outbreak of the civil war he was already an established respected general in the national army.

When the announcement was made that his state of Virginia was going to succeed from the union he stayed up all night pacing the length of his dining room of his residence at Arlington Virginia,pondering what his decision should be.

Finally concluding that though a proud American in his heart he was a virginian and therefore resigned his commission with the U.S army.

Does his residence ring s bell...?

Yes it's same place as the national cemetery at arlington virginia the very one and same where many proud americsn of all colours and ethnic backgrounds have had their fallen family members buried there.

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By *omm000161Man
over a year ago

dublin

Statues dont teach history. Books , museums do. Statues are symbols.

Most of the confederate statues in the states were erected in 1900s to back up Jim Crowe laws, or 1960s to oppose anti segregation laws. Context is everything.

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By *ORDERMANMan
over a year ago

wrexham

That's a fair point

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By *reeMan
over a year ago

Paisley

Unfortunately its a matter of perspective. When people don't like history they destroy it or change it. They should just do the best thing and learn from it and leave it in the past"

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By *hoco DMan
over a year ago

Clapham

Unfortunately its a matter of perspective. When people don't like history they destroy it or change it. They should just do the best thing and learn from it and leave it in the past

Yes its certainly a matter of perspective, when people are ashamed of how their country was built, they tend to sweep the bad parts under the carpet,claim ignorance and cling onto the distorted history they learnt and not willing to learn the truth. I do understand where the ignorance is coming from, as it's hard to be proud of country the was built on back human trafficking and mass genocide on the biggest scale in human history.

And know some intellectual circumcised people will respond to this with something along the lines of "well the Egypt had slave, shall we pull do the pyramids" to them my response is " you know what you know, and this is all that you will ever know" especially in the case of the O.P

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They have now stopped cos trump have said that they will get 10 years if they do it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think these idiots that are protesting know anything about history . They get paid $100 dollars and are fed . Then the go out and do whatever the leaders say . 70% of BLM in New York City last we’re whites females . The blacks are fed up with this crap . It’s mostly Antifa and other Anarchist who are getting paid from the derp state to destroy America . And the media is helping them out big time .

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By *omm000161Man
over a year ago

dublin

[Removed by poster at 06/07/20 15:38:37]

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By *omm000161Man
over a year ago

dublin

[Removed by poster at 06/07/20 15:40:19]

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By *omm000161Man
over a year ago

dublin

"There were a lot worse colonial powers than the uk"

Really? Am I missing the sarcasm,or is this serious?

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By *etguydeeMan
over a year ago

dundee

Comparitivly the British were saints in relation to some others. If your looking for some of the worst offenders look at the Belgium colony in the Congo

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

"Pulled Edward Colston statue down in Bristol, why not replace with statue of William Wilberforce who got slavery outlawed in the British empire?

Bit late to this party....

Good idea.

Let's teach who started the slave trade and let's teach who ended it.

Let's teach where its a practice still being carried out today.

Let's teach where in the world they should really be protesting.

But they won't, or will simply ignore the facts, because it doesn't actually fit the narrative.....

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

"Pulled Edward Colston statue down in Bristol, why not replace with statue of William Wilberforce who got slavery outlawed in the British empire?

Bit late to this party....

Good idea.

Let's teach who started the slave trade and let's teach who ended it.

Let's teach where its a practice still being carried out today.

Let's teach where in the world they should really be protesting.

But they won't, or will simply ignore the facts, because it doesn't actually fit the narrative.....

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By *ary_ArgyllMan
over a year ago

Argyll

"Do you think these idiots that are protesting know anything about history . They get paid $100 dollars and are fed . Then the go out and do whatever the leaders say . 70% of BLM in New York City last we’re whites females . The blacks are fed up with this crap . It’s mostly Antifa and other Anarchist who are getting paid from the derp state to destroy America . And the media is helping them out big time .

You've bought the whole conspiracy theory haven't you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You've bought the whole conspiracy theory haven't you."
god damn Atifa ! I’m beginning to think they caused covid ! Ha I’m not getting political on here but there’s one reason America is fucked ! ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'll say this for those arguing for Confederate statues. Hmm why are there no statues of Adolf Hitler and any Nazis officers??? That's because Germany is ashamed of their history where as, the USA and unfortunately the UK as well is proud of it. Btw do some actual research some of you who are commenting here, and see when some of these Confederate statues actually went up. You want to know when??? During the Civil Rights movement, so miss me with that history bs, it's a talking point meant to rally racists and white nationalists and if you fall for that, I'm sorry to say it you're either

To lazy to do the research

Are a racist or the very least racially insensitive (you probably say all lives matter when someone says black lives matter)

Or you're stupid.

Said what I said, no apologies #gladiatorswithpens ok rant done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Comparitivly the British were saints in relation to some others. If your looking for some of the worst offenders look at the Belgium colony in the Congo"

Very true which is why they are trying to remedy their issues now.

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By *ice__blokeMan
over a year ago

redcar

"There were a lot worse colonial powers than the uk"

ABOVE TRUE

Really? Am I missing the sarcasm,or is this serious? YES

The french,dutch,spanish,Portuguese,germans,english,russians........

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By *ice__blokeMan
over a year ago

redcar

All these nations, were at war to land grab and using politics in there own interests of land & sea grabbing - it was a sign of the times in that moment.

Thousands of atrocities were committed by all......

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

The BLM movement should watch these two films Hotel Rwanda and Welcome to Sarajevo. Both are from the 1990s and show it's not black against white. Blacks have been treating each other badly too. Is this getting white washed out of their history too?

Have any statues of slave traders who were black, been vilified and taken down as I haven't seen or heard any of it?

According to Historian Steven Mintz, he describes the situation more accurately in the introduction to his book African-American Voices: A Documentary Reader, 1619-1877:

"Apologists for the African slave trade long argued that European traders did not enslave anyone: they simply purchased Africans who had already been enslaved and who otherwise would have been put to death. Thus, apologists claimed, the slave trade actually saved lives. Such claims represent a gross distortion of the facts. Some independent slave merchants did in fact stage raids on unprotected African villages and kid nap and enslave Africans. Most professional slave traders, however, set up bases along the west African coast where they purchased slaves from Africans in exchange for firearms and other goods. Before the end of the seventeenth century, England, France, Denmark, Holland, and Portugal had all established slave trading posts on the west African coast.

Yet to simply say that Europeans purchased people who had already been enslaved seriously distorts historical reality. While there had been a slave trade within Africa prior to the arrival of Europeans, the massive European demand for slaves and the introduction of firearms radically transformed west and central African society. A growing number of Africans were enslaved for petty debts or minor criminal or religious offenses or following unprovoked raids on unprotected villages. An increasing number of religious wars broke out with the goal of capturing slaves. European weapons made it easier to capture slaves."

Africa: a mixed bag.

Don't just blame the white man, Egyptians and Arabs had slaves too. Just ask Moses and his people. Should the pharos get their statues knocked down too, or don't Jewish Live Matter...to BLM?

Yes, get rid of the KKK and their ugly evil fellow white supremacist organisations, but don't assume that two wrongs, will make a right. Face your own past as well: warts and all.

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By *andy 1Couple
over a year ago

northeast

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So very well put. It’s appalling and even more appalling that it’s being pandered to.

Most don’t even have any proper understanding of any of it.

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

The Deep South has got a race problem. What would Dr Martin Luther King, Steven Biko, Dulcie September (all immortalised in music by Spiriitulized, Peter Gabriel and Jean Michel Jarre) and Nelson Mandela have to say about this if they were alive today?

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By *astMidsCouple555Couple
over a year ago

Leicester

Some great names referenced there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Deep South has got a race problem. What would Dr Martin Luther King, Steven Biko, Dulcie September (all immortalised in music by Spiriitulized, Peter Gabriel and Jean Michel Jarre) and Nelson Mandela have to say about this if they were alive today?

Peter Gabriel is still alive. I actually follow him on Facebook.

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By *ice__blokeMan
over a year ago

redcar

Nelson Mendela

" for the free it is not merely to cast of ones chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others "

" the more informed you are, the less arrogant and aggressive you are ...... "

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"It should be a criminal offence to burn the union Jack. Disgusting disrespectful treatment of our nations emblem

Sieg Heil, Shirley.

Don't you know that the British empire was the most murderous, enslaving, genocidal, asset-stripping in the history of mankind?

Stalin, Mao, Rome and the Third Reich don't come close. "
How ignorant can you be?

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By *ichiebigMan
over a year ago

nenagh

I am from Ireland, and what the British empire did to my nation is dispicaple, the millons of my countrymen they oversaw the death of, and then, the most devious of all, said it was there own fault, oh you British empire the sins you have committed

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

Peter Gabriel is still alive. I actually follow him on Facebook.

Good taste Sir!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It should be a criminal offence to burn the union Jack. Disgusting disrespectful treatment of our nations emblem

Sieg Heil, Shirley.

Don't you know that the British empire was the most murderous, enslaving, genocidal, asset-stripping in the history of mankind?

Stalin, Mao, Rome and the Third Reich don't come close. How ignorant can you be?"

Might be a tad dramatic but how naive do you have to be not to see the point ? But look I’ve realized it’s a pointless conversation that only leads to arguments !

Except if your irish we’r been pretty chilled !

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

"Nelson Mendela

" for the free it is not merely to cast of ones chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others "

" the more informed you are, the less arrogant and aggressive you are ...... "

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

They should erect a memorial in Birmingham in memory of the innocent men and women who died in the ira pub bombings in 1974,as a result of their cowardly actions, its shameful the way their relatives have been treated by subsequent governments and they still have no justice as one of the cowardly perpetrators is living in the Irish Republic and will never be brought to justice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wen I talk about irish history fighting the English it was to win our independence starting in 1916 from the years of oppression of our people from a foreign government !

Trust me I don’t condone any bombings or other such acts after we won that war and got our republic !

just so we’r clear ! I’m not one them I’ve many English friends

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By *omm000161Man
over a year ago

dublin

An ignorant and offensive comment to Irish people. Also not the best example of British justice and fairness you could have chosen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An ignorant and offensive comment to Irish people. Also not the best example of British justice and fairness you could have chosen."

Mate there’s worse if you really go through this thread ! Think it’s this one ! Anyway The troubles aside the thought process that certain people have towards us irish just during the uprising is mind boggling pal !!!! We know are irish history ! It’s drilled in to us cause we had to fight for the liberties we have today !

Well said my friend

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I am fully in favour of a united Ireland, and can respect the 1916 uprising participants, who fought for what they believed in, bravely. I think someone who puts a bomb in a pub full of innocent people by anyones standards is a low life coward and is in a entirely different bracket.Where is the justice for those poor people who died? No memorial for them.

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By *omm000161Man
over a year ago

dublin

"I am fully in favour of a united Ireland, and can respect the 1916 uprising participants, who fought for what they believed in, bravely. I think someone who puts a bomb in a pub full of innocent people by anyones standards is a low life coward and is in a entirely different bracket.Where is the justice for those poor people who died? No memorial for them. "

All agreed on that. Maybe that's why there is a memorial outside the train station in Bermingham to the victims of the bombing, paid for by the members of the Irish community.

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By *ichiebigMan
over a year ago

nenagh

"They should erect a memorial in Birmingham in memory of the innocent men and women who died in the ira pub bombings in 1974,as a result of their cowardly actions, its shameful the way their relatives have been treated by subsequent governments and they still have no justice as one of the cowardly perpetrators is living in the Irish Republic and will never be brought to justice. "
it was equally shameful the way 6 totally innocent Irish men were dragged off a train, had the shit beaten out of them by the police, then stitched up by the corrupt old boys club called the British justice system and sentenced to life without parole, all because the incompetent police couldn't find their hole in their arse let alone the people who planted the bombs (there were actually 2 of them)years later when everyone including the dog's in the street knew they were innocent there appeals for justice were turned down because as the judge said at their appeal, it would open an appalling vista " British justice my arse, long before blm no one in England gave a damm about Irish lives, send in the paras and shoot them like dogs in the street is British answer to Irish men looking for equality in their own country

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

With regard to history we have seem on this thread people cherry picking through it to suit their own narratives be it Colonialism, Slavery whatever. That is human nature.

I just wish if people were interested in subjects that more of them got their info from books & not a 5 minute snippet of some biased news channel.

My irony meter went off the scale when Rhodes statue was removed due to his links with slavery. Removed from the very building he paid for, used to educate the best of the future, some being poorer students receiving scholarships, it was called “The Rhodes Scholarship” until all this kicked off. It’s now renamed, as I believe is the building. So those calling for the statues removal still learn in his building & take his £. His money & slavery still paid & continue to pay for it, but let’s just forget about that as it doesn’t fit the current programme.

Just like the fact slavery existed long before Europeans arrived in Africa & exists there to this day! Slavers were not by & large Europeans they were North Africans & still are. The Europeans “Just” industrialised it. They were not “Slavers” they by & large bought slaves off local slavers, they were merchants in an abhorrent trade but as said it was there long before Europeans arrived & many millions more died walking to North Africa than ever did at the hands of the European trade.

But again that doesn’t fit the current narrative so is not spoken of.

Pulling down a statue or two changes nothing of any use to today, education always has to be the answer so stick a sign next to them or put them in museums. Mob rule should never be allowed to make the choice as usually brawn overrides brain in mobs.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

And they were released and very well financially compensated, in a miscarriage of justice and police brutality and incompetence allowed the guilty to escape, a tragedy all round. William Gladstone tried to give Ireland its independence in the 1850s,and very nearly succeeded, nobody can put the past to rights, especially one as complicated and tragic as Irelands, but hatred and violence is not the answer, and since Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU, and the nationalists are the majority now, perhaps they will reunify and end the tragedy, and live in peace as one nation. The orange men could have a protected status like the French speaking population in Canada, just a idea, to live in peace

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By *ireman28Man
over a year ago

Derbyshire Nottinghamshire

Why don't we stop buying Lego and stop eating their bacon due to the Danish invasion of 1013?

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By *ice__blokeMan
over a year ago

redcar

“ No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. ”

– Nelson Mandela

“ They must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite ”

-Nelson Mandela

" If you are brought up to hate people of color & so you can learn to love thy neighbor as ones self "

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

"Why don't we stop buying Lego and stop eating their bacon due to the Danish invasion of 1013?"

and porn, don't forget to boycott that either.

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

All agreed on that. Maybe that's why there is a memorial outside the train station in Birmingham to the victims of the bombing, paid for by the members of the Irish community."

Now that's how to heal wounds.

I have Irish, English and Scottish relatives/ancestors. Long live the peace process.

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By *ice__blokeMan
over a year ago

redcar

Well said horny PT

Living near me we have all mixes of people getting along fine - Scottish, Irish , English, Welsh, Yorkshire, Thai who is local nurse, kurds, Jamaican, Somalians, African - Mozambique, German, Ukrainian, Scandinavian - danish from viking stock.

In other words what sort of people point a finger at some because they are different hmm ? ?

An under the surface fascistic & racist.

A BIG FINGER NEEDS POINTING AT THEM

Love thy neighbor and show respect

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well said horny PT

In other words what sort of people point a finger at some because they are different hmm ? ?

An under the surface fascistic & racist.

A BIG FINGER NEEDS POINTING AT THEM

Love thy neighbor and show respect"

Most real thing I’ve read all night ! Fair play bro really well said

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By *omm000161Man
over a year ago

dublin

"Well said horny PT

In other words what sort of people point a finger at some because they are different hmm ? ?

An under the surface fascistic & racist.

A BIG FINGER NEEDS POINTING AT THEM

Love thy neighbor and show respect

Most real thing I’ve read all night ! Fair play bro really well said

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By *ice__blokeMan
over a year ago

redcar

J-reid2020 & _omm000161

Thanks

and yeh to stop and think how our actions of racist / finger pointing & starts with politics.

Hitler pointed the finger at everyone different from what he thought was a perfect RACE

But actually he created - from his finger pointing at people of color and different religions i.e community Jewish families etc. etc

Created the biggest mass murders on the planet - all from political Putrid Bile

Just like TRUMP is spouting by trying to dangerously divide good folk who live in the U.S

He is a very bad man ......

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By *ice__blokeMan
over a year ago

redcar

I just had my hair cut at the local Pakistani barbers.

A very nice chap. Always genuinely nice and a good man.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Gotta love how this thread went from statues toppling to bashing the U.S. president. Anyone who dosen't live here (i.e. a citizen) has nothing to do with it. The statue issue is a global issue as is the BLM. And no they are not the same thing. Not even close.

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

"Gotta love how this thread went from statues toppling to bashing the U.S. president. Anyone who dosen't live here (i.e. a citizen) has nothing to do with it. The statue issue is a global issue as is the BLM. And no they are not the same thing. Not even close. "

This BLM movement is going in the wrong direction. Don't attack the past, build the future instead. Build more black and non Caucasian statues instead, then put them in pride of place.

In England, Florence Nightingale the white nurse from the Crimean War, is held in saint like revere (quite rightly so) and has graced the reverse side of our currency. however the same can't be said for her counter part...Who was from Scottish and Jamaican stock.

Mary Jane Seacole was a British-Jamaican businesswoman who set up the "British Hotel" behind the lines during the Crimean War. She described this as "a mess-table and comfortable quarters for sick and convalescent officers", and provided succour for wounded servicemen on the battlefield....taken from Wikikpedia.

Don't knock down statues, knock on the doors of the politicians instead: then you'll have my full support.

Mary Seacole on a back of a note? No debate. Which note? Well, that's up for debate. I hope it happens.

Not everything is black and white, unless you're writing American sitcoms. Has Hollywood not seen "Red Dwarf'?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"J-reid2020 & _omm000161

Thanks

and yeh to stop and think how our actions of racist / finger pointing & starts with politics.

Hitler pointed the finger at everyone different from what he thought was a perfect RACE

But actually he created - from his finger pointing at people of color and different religions i.e community Jewish families etc. etc

Created the biggest mass murders on the planet - all from political Putrid Bile

Just like TRUMP is spouting by trying to dangerously divide good folk who live in the U.S

He is a very bad man ......"

Definitely!!

And look everybody is entitled to there own political views I don’t judge !

But anybody outside of the US that says Donald trump is good for this world I honestly can’t see what planet there on !!!!

or if they have any real grasp of what he has and is currently doing !

Ill be seriously disappointed if I have to watch that man stumble through speeches and blatantly lie every chance he gets for another 4 years !

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By *ice__blokeMan
over a year ago

redcar

J-reid2020

Well said fella !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said"

Rare and really nice to see a perspective like that coming from a couple from the UK ! Besides the few dick heads that don’t have that many insightful thoughts floating around in that empty space they call a brain ! The majority of Irish people would completely agree with this point !

As you can see from the intelligent irish people that wrote sense on here and respect to everyone one of them!!!!!

It’s history fucking leave it there !

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

"Pulled Edward Colston statue down in Bristol, why not replace with statue of William Wilberforce who got slavery outlawed in the British empire?

Bit late to this party....

Good idea.

Let's teach who started the slave trade and let's teach who ended it.

Let's teach where its a practice still being carried out today.

Let's teach where in the world they should really be protesting.

But they won't, or will simply ignore the facts, because it doesn't actually fit the narrative.....

Black men sold black slaves too.

Even Islam calls Ethiopians raisin heads.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said

As you can see from the intelligent irish people that wrote sense on here and respect to everyone one of them!!!!!

It’s history fucking leave it there ! "

I fully agree with your History statement. Leave it there. Learn from it, but leave it there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said

As you can see from the intelligent irish people that wrote sense on here and respect to everyone one of them!!!!!

It’s history fucking leave it there !

I fully agree with your History statement. Leave it there. Learn from it, but leave it there. "

Amen !

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By *izzabelle and well hungCouple
over a year ago

Edinburgh.

So what should we have done with the Bristol statue? We couldn’t leave it there. We should have had an art competition to decide what to do with it. My idea is to build giant Trebuchet and use it to fire it out to sea as Morris dancers a jig to Britney Spears.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So what should we have done with the Bristol statue? We couldn’t leave it there. We should have had an art competition to decide what to do with it. My idea is to build giant Trebuchet and use it to fire it out to sea as Morris dancers a jig to Britney Spears. "
fair point !

Which Britney song you thinking

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

Which Britney song you thinking "

Toxic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

William wilberforce is remembered with a statue in Hull. He didn’t live in Bristol

Also I recall in 1970’s (so I’m not a Snowflake) at school we were taught about The Slave Trade and visited the Wilberforce museum in Hull

Why is it not on the Curriculum now?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

History is written by the victors hence it’s usually biased and incirrect

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It should be a criminal offence to burn the union Jack. Disgusting disrespectful treatment of our nations emblem

Sieg Heil, Shirley.

Don't you know that the British empire was the most murderous, enslaving, genocidal, asset-stripping in the history of mankind?

Stalin, Mao, Rome and the Third Reich don't come close. "
Rome was far worse

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You know this has been such a great thread lots of views a bit like wikipedia.

Really articulate points well and politely made from clearly polar opposites

Such a welcome relief from...” I like guys to come on my nipples,” lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which Britney song you thinking

Toxic"

I would of said the same ! Good shout

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Australia is now teaching its kids that they were not found by Captain James Cook but invaded. So by that account Christopher Columbus and then the Pilgrim Fathers etc invaded the New World

City of Glasgow is talking of changing street names especially around Merchant City as they are all named after Tobacco Lords who sold slaves for American plantations and big mansions back home

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

instead of ripping down statues that are linked to past slavery surely it would make sense to put all that energy into protesting about currently slavery which still goes on in Africa today and other parts of the world

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Modern slavery is still going on in the UK, with illegal migrants and sex workers from all over the world. Very vulnerable people who can not complain. Zero hours contracts are a form of modern slavery to which should be outlawed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

then protest for that as well then

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By *uninlondonMan
over a year ago

London

You cannot judge historic figures who kidn*p (even the forum doesn't like this word), enslave and murder people "by the standards of today"? Can you elaborate?

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By *ensual -lover69Man
over a year ago

Blackburn

Honestly its the same thing as the Taliban destroying ancient statues all over Afghanistan.

This is the millenials method of doing things. "

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

Anyone who has smoked or used sugar (cane) has definitely benefited off the whipped backs of those slaves. That includes members of the BLM anarchy group too, as the money used to build the factories and farms came from previous sales and profits.

Is anyone going to overthrow today's manufacturers? Because the original owners were part and parcel of the slave trade.

Sins-of-the-father anyone?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

A lot of major land owning families including the Royal family made money from the transatlantic slave trade, and they have records to prove as much. It would be a fair idea for them to pay reparations to the descendants of their slaves who they wrenched from their homelands and transferred to the Caribbean and USA.

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By *ensual -lover69Man
over a year ago

Blackburn

"A lot of major land owning families including the Royal family made money from the transatlantic slave trade, and they have records to prove as much. It would be a fair idea for them to pay reparations to the descendants of their slaves who they wrenched from their homelands and transferred to the Caribbean and USA. "

Do I have a claim against a dinosaur that ate one of my ancestors, how far do you want to go back, its time to look forward and get a life and stop living with resentments that happened centuries ago, the BLM brigade are just trying to bully people into their mindset, yes there are racist but destroying property/attacking people will only fuel resentment against them

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

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By *ice__blokeMan
over a year ago

redcar

Very good & intelligent posts as above

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why not? Slavery is and was wrong and it shouldn't be glorified. History is mostly fake anyway. In world war 1 and 2 thousands of black and Asians were sacrificed as cannon fodder. Theres no yearly remmberance for the dead non white folks' history is a coverup of many sickening events that took place! Dumping a few statues is the least of what's about to happen. Think French Revolution!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/09/20 13:40:43]

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By *awhide69Man
over a year ago

ayr

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The transatlantic slave trade was the biggest forced migration in history. Is it really any wander why black people get so angry about it and its effects. Has for the confederacy, it was a act of treason against the United States, which Britain actually supported for its own aims. And the scars of slavery in the USA are still very sore, hence all the rioting etc

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

See they have renamed Colston Hall in Bristol, good idea, having a venue named after a slave trader is horrid.

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