FabSwingers.com forum: 1916 Rising Dublin

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Have any of ur Brits educated urself on this?true Irish patriots standing up to British rule

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *acavityMan
over a year ago

Redditch

Yes.

We know about the easter rising, and the fact that Eire is a separate country now. It was in all the newspapers at the time.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yes.

We know about the easter rising, and the fact that Eire is a separate country now. It was in all the newspapers at the time."

Its not Eire,its the Republic of Ireland.Glad it was in the English papers.Positive.Its also great the relations between our two countries are really good now.Was also happy ur Queen visited our country in 2011

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not exactly the kind of post you expect to see on a swinging site!

One of my mates gave me Michael Collins to watch....which I haven't done yet

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Not exactly the kind of post you expect to see on a swinging site!

One of my mates gave me Michael Collins to watch....which I haven't done yet "

Just to be clear im very happy that our two Islands have such a warm relationship now!I am not anti Uk.I love the Uk and London is one of the best cities in the World

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *ong riderMan
over a year ago

belfast

There's always two sides...the rising leaders were aristocratic snobs with more in common with modern jihadists than 'irish patriots' .. whatever they are...if it wasn't for the rising we wouldn't have partition. Home rule would have been implemented with the whole island forming the free state instead of the mad partition sop that was a consequence of the rising

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its not Eire,its the Republic of Ireland."

Surely it's Éire in the Irish language, Ireland in the English language.

Either way and last century politics aside its a beautiful country with some lovely people- As is England.

Sara

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sick of all this 1916. Really what did it accomplish in the end? We just swaped one empire for another, the Catholic Church. And we kept the British legal system, parliamentary system and currency. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *ombikerMan
over a year ago

the right side of the river

All anyone needs to know about most wars is that the sons of poor men kill each other to allow the sons of the rich and powerful become even more rich and powerful.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Watched the Michael Portillo documentary on the 1916 rising and hadn't realised just how many innocent young English soldiers were ruthlessly mowed down by the so called rebels as they marched into Dublin in an attempt to restore peace ( with the overwhelming support of the vast majority of Irish people at the time).

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Watched the Michael Portillo documentary on the 1916 rising and hadn't realised just how many innocent young English soldiers were ruthlessly mowed down by the so called rebels as they marched into Dublin in an attempt to restore peace ( with the overwhelming support of the vast majority of Irish people at the time)."

What a narrow view!Ireland was under colonial rule at the time.If Germany had won Ww1 do u not think Brits wud resist internally???

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hardly a narrow view, when the mast majority of Irish people at the time welcomed the young English soldiers and wanted them to restore the peace. Most academics acknowledge that the 'Rebels' introduced the bomb and bull it into Irish politics, fact which still has consequences today.

You mention WW1, again I learned from the Portillo documentary that the 'Rebels' signed a proclamation of independence in which they described Germany (who we were locked in a bloody war with beyond imagination) as their loyal allies!!!!

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

Guess most people now see Ireland as a tourist attraction or tax shelter for US corporations. That seems to annoy US, France and Germany so can't be all bad

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Taking over a post office !!! Lol.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Hardly a narrow view, when the mast majority of Irish people at the time welcomed the young English soldiers and wanted them to restore the peace. Most academics acknowledge that the 'Rebels' introduced the bomb and bull it into Irish politics, fact which still has consequences today.

Do u ever acknowledge the terrible crimes the empire caused in the countries it invaded?The Rebels had ever right to fight for freedom and they inspired Michael Collins to force the Brits to the peace talks in Downing street.Btw please be aware of the thousands of Irish lives fought in Ww1 for a British king with the promise of Home rule which never happened

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The 'Rebels' took it upon themselves with no popular mandate from the huge majority of Irish people who were against them, to cynically attack innocent young English lads sent to keep the peace. They chose their moment when WW1 was at its more intense and the Westminster government and the resources of both politicians and the military were most stretched. They wanted martyrdom and sadly through gross naïveté were granted it by misguided retribution by an inexperienced army commander. They in effect committed treason against their own people, as you correctly identify many thousands of young Irish lads including my own Grandfather were fighting in Irish regiments on the Western front at the time. I don't dispute the right of Ireland to have independence but I'm afraid the manner in which it was gained is no more cause for celebration than other similar acts of barbarity committed by the 'Empire' (including Irishman!) around the globe.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The 'Rebels' took it upon themselves with no popular mandate from the huge majority of Irish people who were against them, to cynically attack innocent young English lads sent to keep the peace. They chose their moment when WW1 was at its more intense and the Westminster government and the resources of both politicians and the military were most stretched. They wanted martyrdom and sadly through gross naïveté were granted it by misguided retribution by an inexperienced army commander. They in effect committed treason against their own people, as you correctly identify many thousands of young Irish lads including my own Grandfather were fighting in Irish regiments on the Western front at the time. I don't dispute the right of Ireland to have independence but I'm afraid the manner in which it was gained is no more cause for celebration than other similar acts of barbarity committed by the 'Empire' (including Irishman!) around the globe."

We are not going to agree but I respect ur point of view

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm touched.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm pretty sure Michael Portillo is a very nice man but I'm also pretty sure that as a Tory he'd be in favour of the Irish being under British rule, then, now and always. 1916 was probably the beginning of the end of the British Empire and a good thing too, what right does one country have to rule over another. That's a rhetorical question by the way.

Oh, and yea a great shame about the young lads sent in to quell the uprising and subsequently losing their lives. Great shame about the million or so Irish left to starve by the British during the 1840s. Laissez faire and all that.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The tragity is, the independence agenda was on the statute books.. Delayed by ww1.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm touched."

U dont need to be a smart arse!!!!

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm pretty sure Michael Portillo is a very nice man but I'm also pretty sure that as a Tory he'd be in favour of the Irish being under British rule, then, now and always. 1916 was probably the beginning of the end of the British Empire and a good thing too, what right does one country have to rule over another. That's a rhetorical question by the way.

Well said.Excellent post!

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

whats easter rising got to do with the site fed up listening about it im in northern ireland so im british we are part of the uk and i wear my poppy with pride and support our armed forces so please give it a rest

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/04/16 04:26:11]

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *ong riderMan
over a year ago

belfast

"whats easter rising got to do with the site fed up listening about it im in northern ireland so im british we are part of the uk and i wear my poppy with pride and support our armed forces so please give it a rest "

If it wasn't for the rising Northern Ireland wouldn't exist. You should be celebrating it!

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *ilderMan
over a year ago

dublin

"There's always two sides...the rising leaders were aristocratic snobs with more in common with modern jihadists than 'irish patriots' .. whatever they are...if it wasn't for the rising we wouldn't have partition. Home rule would have been implemented with the whole island forming the free state instead of the mad partition sop that was a consequence of the rising"

Can you be so sure that without the rising we'd not have partition? With some not wanting home rule at the time and the likes of the Ulster volunteers (and then the Irish volunteers) forming isn't it a possibility that partition could have occurred anyway sooner or later? None of us can know that obviously.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *weetcplCouple
over a year ago

Central

For 800 years the British committed murder and genocide in Ireland, during the great hunger our fish and crops were getting shipped out of Ireland

Under armed guard while our people were dying eating grass on the road side, it was similar to what the Nazis did to the Jews. What about the lovely British soldiers that went from home to home murdering civilians in 1916,

Any Irish who who joined the British were born into slavery and brain washed ,

Ireland unfree will never be at peace,

Patrick Pearse 1915

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *ong riderMan
over a year ago

belfast

Yes. Home rule was going through. In fact Redmond's actions would have made it a certainty as a 'reward' for Irish support in WW1. Before the war there was more likelihood of an ulster volunteer rising in Belfast, probably to be met with similar opposition from the British as what happened in Dublin in 16. Imagine the British reaction then? Partition? Not likely as that would reward ulster volunteer treason against the British state. Although I couldn't see Carson being hanged...

The rising put a stop to all this and turned the democratic home rule movement into a military action, as the british saw it.Such is Irish history over the past 100 years..normal political process in the thrall of a radicalised minority armed with bombs and bullets. Anyone draw any similarities with today's Islamic state?

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

"Have any of ur Brits educated urself on this?true Irish patriots standing up to British rule"

It might be well advised to educate yourself before questioning that of others.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yea like why would i want to celebrate it the only ones that do are murderers themselves marty gerry jerry and all that crowd wise up

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

You can hardly blame the British people here for what their predecessors did.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

To be fair. It was British forces who bombarded the inner city. Killing hundreds of civillians.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *otblondewife hornyMrCouple
over a year ago

Cambuslang

so you wear your poppy which supports soldiers fighting foreign wars in far flung places like iraq yet you dont think people should commemorate their own soldiers who were trying to drive out a foreign occupier in their own country?

no doubt you're sick of orange walks disrupting people while commemorating something that happened over 300 years ago?

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I work for an Irish company and over on a regular basis. We've discussed the history and politics numerous times. They like me apparently despite being English!!

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The poppy is a symbol of peace not war. It takes a particularly bitter and twisted view of the world to suggest that poppy somehow supports war! Please educate yourself on this point at least. As for Irish independence, as previously stated no one would question the right for any country to live peacefully and independently, however the manner of prosecuting Irish independence in 1916 is hardly without reproach and is as questionable as the many atrocities committed in the name of the Empire by Englishmen, Scotsmen, Welshmen AND Irishmen!!!!

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

"The poppy is a symbol of peace not war. It takes a particularly bitter and twisted view of the world to suggest that poppy somehow supports war! Please educate yourself on this point at least. As for Irish independence, as previously stated no one would question the right for any country to live peacefully and independently, however the manner of prosecuting Irish independence in 1916 is hardly without reproach and is as questionable as the many atrocities committed in the name of the Empire by Englishmen, Scotsmen, Welshmen AND Irishmen!!!!"

Well put.

There are two unfortunate things about the Poppy.

1. It is often 'brandished' by certain thug-type people in the UK, who give ordinary decent Brits a bad name.

2. Because of it's association with Britishness and the Royal affiliation, it is inclined to be kept at arms length by even the more liberaland intelligent of Irishmen.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Inherent in your response to the issue of the poppy lies a suggestion that 'Britishness' is somehow wrong or worse malign in some way. I don't think anyone would deny the atrocities at times committed in the name of the British Empire (in which Irish people played their full part). But does this mean that nothing good has emanated from Britain or the British (including Ireland and the Irish)?

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Have any of ur Brits educated urself on this?true Irish patriots standing up to British rule

It might be well advised to educate yourself before questioning that of others."

Back u up ur point!

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

Discounting any atrocities committed. The only thing 'wrong' with the British association is that there is a deep-rooted sentiment not to be

associated as British when one is Irish.

It is not so much that British-ness is seeing as a lesser identity. Rather, having had it forced on one's nation, it is simply something that is naturally shunned.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All anyone needs to know about most wars is that the sons of poor men kill each other to allow the sons of the rich and powerful become even more rich and powerful."

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Understood. I think however it is offensive to British people (like myself) to somehow infer that the poppy or the governing organisation the Royal British Legion is somehow malign. It represents the fallen of two world wars fought to preserve the democratic freedoms that we all value so highly and give an opportunity to families of the departed to show their respects.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

It's clear, now that you mention it, how it can be take as an offence.

However, similarly, it would probably be worth noting why some / a lot of Irish people dislike the Poppy.

It seems both sides are mis-reading the situation.

Have seen a similar discussion of late on YouTube. An old BBC broadcast refers to the weather of the 'British Isles' .... incl Ireland, the entire island.

I personally don't mind referring to these islands as the British Isles. However, depending on the tone and attitude of the person, some British people might be worth noting that the term can be seen in a negative way.

It suggests that an ownership / dominance. Ireland was never one to play the Sub role !!

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

"Have any of ur Brits educated urself on this?true Irish patriots standing up to British rule

It might be well advised to educate yourself before questioning that of others.

Back u up ur point!"

You can not spell and missed the date by weeks. Looks less relevant as a post and unlikely you are going to reflect on the nuances of historical events. Just the way I read it

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting point on the 'British Isles' including the island of Ireland. The British Isles are a geographic feature in the same way that the Americas refers to the continent from Canada to Chile, and does not take into account the political make up of the geography. I don't think geographers or weather forecasters can be criticised for using the correct term of British Isles to describe our collection of islands off the cost of Europe.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

Whilst I see it as a geographic term I think broadcasters (perhaps not geographers) can be faulted on it's use. Broadcasters (especially in institutions as esteemed as the BBC), are supposedly trained in word-choice and audience sensitivities. That being said, the aforementioned broadcast is some 40 years old now.

I'm not saying the term shouldn't be used. Nor am I suggesting that British (or other) people should be stopped from using the term). However, it is advisable to be a little more sensitive when using the term around Irish people. Especially the more 'passionate' ones !!!

One might draw a comparison the term 'Nigga' (not nigger) being a relatively acceptable term. However white people are would be well advised in restricting the use of it around darker skinned people they do not know. Perhaps only when really permissible when giving their finest hip-hop performance

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *otblondewife hornyMrCouple
over a year ago

Cambuslang

"Have any of ur Brits educated urself on this?true Irish patriots standing up to British rule

It might be well advised to educate yourself before questioning that of others.

Back u up ur point!

You can not spell and missed the date by weeks. Looks less relevant as a post and unlikely you are going to reflect on the nuances of historical events. Just the way I read it

Maybe when trying to be smart you should check your own facts. The rising was the end of April.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am aghast that you equate the term 'n----a' to that of the British Isles, frankly unbelievable, do you know just how offensive you are being? I can only suppose that you are doing this deliberately! My family are Irish from the Sligo area and I have never experienced anti British prejudice such as this before.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

Well the term British Isles can suggest that Britain holds dominance over Ireland. Therefore it is a negative term in the eyes of Irish people.

Do I insist you refrain from using it ? -No.

Similarly, if you want to use the term Nigga, then fire away.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Only if you are extremely small minded and caught up in the politics of the past or worse are vehemently anti British. I have never encountered anything other than warmth expressed towards Irish people and to the country of Ireland by British people today. Not sure why the apparent hatred of the British in the current context. We do not hate Germans or the Japanese because of what they did during WW2! Move on or grow up!

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

Let me ask you this:

Would you use the word Nigga or Negro ?

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely not, but how on earth does that equate to the word Britain? I am not disputing the wrongs of the past but we are called Britain/British, the British Isles are a geographical feature like the Irish Sea. How does this equate to an insulting word used during the slave trade (which Britain including Ireland outlawed before any other country) towards black people?

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

Because, not negating any atrocities / acts of war effected by the Irish side, the term British is to an Irish man the same as the term Nigga et al to an African man.

It carries a long standing suggestion that Ireland is subserviant to Great Britain / UK. Similarly, the Union Jack, to Ireland at least has a similar sentiment.

If you cannot see this, then perhaps you should use Nigga / Negro as just another word. After all, it is simply a descriptive term for those of black / dark skin.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You seem to be suggesting that unless we change the name of our country to something else other than Britain you will hate us for ever more? Very grown up! As I said we do not take a similar view with Germany or Japan and frankly we have as much cause to do that as Ireland may have with Britain.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

I'm suggesting nothing of the sort. However referring to Ireland as a British Isle is insensitive. Otherwise you might aswell refer to African people as Negroes and Niggas and other similar terms.

Germany and Japan never tried to wipe the British people out of existence. Not in the same way Britain tried to ethnically cleanse Irish people.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You really need to read about WW2 if you think that Germany and Japan did not try to erase Britain and its people from the map!!!!!! Your prejudice is showing through again. The British Isles does not infer that Ireland is a British island! In the same way that the Americas does not infer that every country from Canada to Chile belongs to the USA! I still do not understand your analogy with the N word? Nobody today who has any sense would use the N word as an insult, but that is nothing like describing our bit of Northern Europe as the British Isles, or saying the Irish Sea. Do you take exception to the English Channel?

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *usky Couple01Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

24th of April 1916 to 29th of April 1916

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

If you cannot see how including the Republic of Ireland in the phrasing 'British Isles' as being offensive / sensitive, then there is little I can do to help you.

It is unfortunate that your thinking aligns with that of Nazis, Ku Klux Klan and similar groups. Have a good evening.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you are very handy with the insults and offensive language. Have a pleasant evening.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

By the way, you should note that Ireland and the Irish did not emanate from Britain or the British Empire.

"But does this mean that nothing good has emanated from Britain or the British (including Ireland and the Irish)?"

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *ilderMan
over a year ago

dublin

"Interesting point on the 'British Isles' including the island of Ireland. The British Isles are a geographic feature in the same way that the Americas refers to the continent from Canada to Chile, and does not take into account the political make up of the geography. I don't think geographers or weather forecasters can be criticised for using the correct term of British Isles to describe our collection of islands off the cost of Europe."

That's a deeply insulting term as it infers an ownership that doesn't exist, the correct terms are European or Atlantic Archipelago, either are more geographically correct and don't insult several million people

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *weetcplCouple
over a year ago

Central

"Only if you are extremely small minded and caught up in the politics of the past or worse are vehemently anti British. I have never encountered anything other than warmth expressed towards Irish people and to the country of Ireland by British people today. Not sure why the apparent hatred of the British in the current context. We do not hate Germans or the Japanese because of what they did during WW2! Move on or grow up!"
do you realise the Britain still occupies 6 counties of our land , borders that were made to always keep a unionist majority ?

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

If by 'correct term' you mean 'official' or 'widely accepted' then you're wrong. Those terms, whilst having gained some discourse amongst more educated people, remain largely unused.

The most correct / official term is British Isles. However, it is quite inappropriate, because as you say it 'insults several million people'.

On one hand, to be refer to an Irishman as British, suggests, in the mind of the Irishman at least he is a part of and possibly subserviant to Britain. However, the Irish should realise that the true British are in fact the Breton tribes of what is now Wales and of course parts of Northern France.

Hence the Irish name for Wales.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *llen n SebbCouple
over a year ago

Walkinstown

Our land ?

To whom do you refer ?

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What I have learned this evening is that there remains a deep anti British sentiment amongst Irish people (some/all?) which maybe nievely, I thought was a thing of the past. I honestly do not believe that a similar feeling exists in the opposite direction. Not really sure what ordinary British people can do about this? As I have said, people iof my generation grew up with the horrors of WW2 very much on our parents minds, through lost relatives etc being still very painful. But we have moved on from a position of hatred towards Germany and Japan.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *ockthecock312Man
over a year ago

glasgow

Take your politics elsewhere this is a site for free and easy consensual sex ..

No place here for loaded questions that could spark the west of Scotland virus called sectarianism .

Let's concentrate on adult fun

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *ockthecock312Man
over a year ago

glasgow

[Removed by poster at 18/04/16 22:41:50]

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *ockthecock312Man
over a year ago

glasgow

Its not Eire,its the Republic of Ireland.

Surely it's Éire in the Irish language, Ireland in the English language.

Either way and last century politics aside its a beautiful country with some lovely people- As is England.

Well said this shows the measure of the poster

He's looking to provoke thereby justifying his own agenda

Sara "

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By *ary_ArgyllMan
over a year ago

Argyll

"You really need to read about WW2 if you think that Germany and Japan did not try to erase Britain and its people from the map!!!!!! Your prejudice is showing through again. The British Isles does not infer that Ireland is a British island! In the same way that the Americas does not infer that every country from Canada to Chile belongs to the USA! I still do not understand your analogy with the N word? Nobody today who has any sense would use the N word as an insult, but that is nothing like describing our bit of Northern Europe as the British Isles, or saying the Irish Sea. Do you take exception to the English Channel?"

Well actually these names can denote some level of ownership. The French government for example officially do not accept the term English Channel - it is the Channel on French navigation charts.

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i do support orange walks yes and as i said things like easter rising should not be allowed on the site its a swingers site not a bloody political site

(thread closed by moderator)

Reply privately