FabSwingers.com forum: Consent.

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

(Disclaimer- This is a long one, question + reasoning. Bare with me.)

Consent is the pinicle of priorities for me. So this is a question that's always stuck out for me.

This question came from an experience a few weeks back, personally on nights out (unless in a consenting relationship and have spoke about it) when meeting people on nights out and getting into these situations I have always just been open and said I'm happy to dance and maybe have a kiss but if they want more then take my number and see where it goes another time. However, I met this woman a few weeks ago on a night out we were both quite d*unk and had danced/ kissed all night at a bar and she invited me back. (I did the usual and explained I'm happy to meet sober) and she called me a few things and we went different ways. Personally I'm fine with that outcome because consent is way more important to me than a little kick in the... pride.

If you're on a night out or at a party and you meet someone, you're both d*unk and it gets a little heated. Where does consent fit into this situation?

We have all been on nights out where after a few too many drinks,we regret things we have done or said in the morning or perhaps we don't remember anything at all so how can someone consent to anything in that state?

Genuine answers only please.

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By *lan157Man
over a year ago

a village near Haywards Heath in East Sussex

I think it's perfectly clear . A d*unk person is not in a position to give consent.

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By *ng1983Couple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon tyne

"I think it's perfectly clear . A d*unk person is not in a position to give consent. "

This. I would never go home with someone who was d*unk, or if i was d*unk. I would do what you said and give my number and meet up sober

Gem

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By *uietlyKinkyUsCouple
over a year ago

midlands

I think your stance on it, is spot on.

Smooch a little but for anything more serious exchange details and meet when sober

It's refreshingly mature and makes absolute sense to protect yourself and your reputation

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By *hubaysiWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"(Disclaimer- This is a long one, question + reasoning. Bare with me.)

Consent is the pinicle of priorities for me. So this is a question that's always stuck out for me.

If you're on a night out or at a party and you meet someone, you're both d*unk and it gets a little heated. Where does consent fit into this situation?

Genuine answers only please. "

Sir you are a gentleman......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think it's perfectly clear . A d*unk person is not in a position to give consent. "

this! I don't fuck d*unk people (well, I might make an exception for my husband). Nor do I play when I'm d*unk.

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By *he Ring WraithMan
over a year ago

Bradford

Total agreement from me as well; d*unk sex is crap anyway ! (or is that just me ?)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

it's great to know people feel the same way about it. I was feeling a little confused by her reaction.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

"it's great to know people feel the same way about it. I was feeling a little confused by her reaction. "

We are complicated creatures

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By *atcoupleCouple
over a year ago

Suffolk - East Anglia

OP, you are right to take this cautious approach and I totally agree.

So many guys have found themselves in deep trouble due to not having the foresight to make absolutely certain that sober consent is given.

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

Hopefully both parties would have the sense to go separate ways as the lines could get blurred.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"OP, you are right to take this cautious approach and I totally agree.

So many guys have found themselves in deep trouble due to not having the foresight to make absolutely certain that sober consent is given."

So true.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You say (both quite d*unk) working behind bars for many years its very rare for someone quite d*unk to make a sensible decision. My stance on that is don't get d*unk life is alot clearer without looking through blurred eyes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People ruining the good old one night stand what's wrong with going on a good night out and two consenting adults having a good shag waking up feeling like a badger has had a shit down your throat and having to walk 8 miles in the rain to get home.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

How times have changed.

As a student and in the years afterwards many a weekend was full of occasions when both myself and friends often found themselves hooking up with random strangers in bars and clubs whilst under the influence - both parties being what any sane person would class as d*unk. Sex was regularly involved. Many a time memories next morning were blurred and hazy, details hard to recall and there was the odd 'oh fuck did I really just wake up with you?' moment. Plenty of walks of shame occurred, a helping of morning after regret, a bit of ribbing from friends in the days to follow and blushed faces if you ever bumped into said random encounter again.

D*unken fumbles and sex were a part of growing up back then. People made the odd mistake and learned from them.

Of course if one party was stone cold sober that's a different matter entirely. Those occasions usually ended up with the d*unk party either being rescued by friends or being dragged off some poor sober soul to stop them harassing them.

I wouldn't want to be young now. There's the potential to find yourself accused of something you've not done just because someone regrets sleeping with you the next day and equally the number of stories you read about where men claim to be innocent parties when in fact they've deliberately targeted women under the influence makes it harder for victims to get taken seriously and people to be prosecuted when required.

Won't be long before people are expected and required to sign a consent form/disclaimer/list of agreed activities before removing their socks.

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By *uietlyKinkyUsCouple
over a year ago

midlands

Ooooooo see now even if I ask you for sex, that doesn't imply anything about taking my socks off!

Times have changed now. Well certainly in England.

Women, married and single can say no now.

It's about active consent not assumed consent.

Being d*unk you can't get or give active consent!

Years ago a police man may have sympathized with a woman 'bemoaning her husband's requirements' or her shameful d*unken and sexual behaviour.

Now the police force will pay absolute attention to either the above and take as much dna evidence as is available.

Men being mistreated by women is also recognised

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sure that your situation as described is about consent as such.If she understood what would or could happen when she asked you back, then she is giving her consent for you to go back home with her and as long as she is not insensate then I don't see where consent comes into it.

What happens next is governed by the same law. I think your stance on drink and sex with strangers is admirable and sensible and hopefully you will avoid a situation where the question of consent will ever arise. You are also a bona fide gentleman.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think it's perfectly clear . A d*unk person is not in a position to give consent. "

Absolutely correct

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a testy topic. A scorned woman et al.

But consent doesn't come on a label with a guarantee, or witnesses; until the wedding.

I expect many would see it as exemplary of a gentleman etc. But for a woman it would likely be evaluated quite differently.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Ooooooo see now even if I ask you for sex, that doesn't imply anything about taking my socks off!

Times have changed now. Well certainly in England.

Women, married and single can say no now.

It's about active consent not assumed consent.

Being d*unk you can't get or give active consent!

Years ago a police man may have sympathized with a woman 'bemoaning her husband's requirements' or her shameful d*unken and sexual behaviour.

Now the police force will pay absolute attention to either the above and take as much dna evidence as is available.

Men being mistreated by women is also recognised

100% agree active consent is essential!

And to me that's the different between people saying "the good old days where we use to go out get d*unk and as long as we are both consenting,have a one night stand"

because who's to say either is consenting really? You can only assume the extent of how d*unk they are, therefore their consent is only assumed.

Personally I feel that when people say "it use to be fine back in my day" or "these kinds of things didn't happen back in the day" all they're really saying is; there was no awareness of r*pe or statutory r*pe

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By *litterbabeWoman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

A lot has quite rightly changed since back in the day, when teachers used to cane pupils without even contacting the parents, it was ok for them to throw a black board rubber across the room at a pupil, and parents could give kids a good spanking over their knee, marks and all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How times have changed.

D*unken fumbles and sex were a part of growing up back then. People made the odd mistake and learned from them.

Won't be long before people are expected and required to sign a consent form/disclaimer/list of agreed activities before removing their socks.

A "

I was a student up til 4 years ago and can categorically say there was still loads of getting shitfaced and going home with the closest attractive person occurring! Think the vibe was possibly different in campus bars and clubs though where everyone knew what the deal was.

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By *ovelifelovefuntimesMan
over a year ago

Where ever I lay my hat

Consent is a really tricky issue. I know it is a passion killer but I've advised my late teenage son to be so careful that he might even consider doing a selfie video with him and any partner agreeing they are about to have sex.

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By *aughtyYorkGentMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire

Consent is critically important to me and there have certainly been occasions in the past when I've forced myself to decline offers from women who have had a lot to drink.

At the same time, even in 2020, there has to be a degree of pragmatism. There are degrees of intoxication - what constitutes "d*unk" and who decides at what point someone is no longer able to consent?

While being pissed should never be an excuse for anything, I do feel that two equally d*unk people ending up in bed together is slightly different to a d*unk person being taken advantage of by a sober one, though personally I'd always err on the side of caution.

Of course in the real world consent rarely takes the form of someone explicitly saying "Yes, I want to have sex", and I don't know anyone who actually requires a form to be signed! I'd be extremely reluctant to engage in sexual acts with a stranger in the situation described by the OP, whereas I've regularly had sex with FWBs when we'd both had a lot to drink beforehand. In my experience when people tend to have sex every time they meet, after a while consent is never really discussed, let alone raised on a "per occasion" basis. When I've raised a concern over this in the past, the response has been "don't be silly - that's what you're here for isn't it?".

Presumably it's possible to give consent in advance, but how does that fit with someone's right to change their mind or withdraw that consent? The whole thing is a bit of a minefield!

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By *ovelifelovefuntimesMan
over a year ago

Where ever I lay my hat

No always means No, even if you have been at it like rabbits for an hour. I guess it comes down to respect and understanding boundaries.

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By *hoenixcouplexxCouple
over a year ago

Leicestershire

Clear consent is so important to us.

Even in a club I've asked 'are you sure' just before.

It's worked well and always been well received.

Kink play as soon as it gets into the realms of anything serious I've actually got signed written consent which has also been appreciated and well received.

I'd have done the exact same thing in your position.

So many don't consider it enough in my opinion. Our son has had more than one lecture on clear consent and the d*unk people are unable to offer clear consent.

Not only that but all the times I have asked it has been appreciated that I actually thought about it.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Ooooooo see now even if I ask you for sex, that doesn't imply anything about taking my socks off!

Times have changed now. Well certainly in England.

Women, married and single can say no now.

It's about active consent not assumed consent.

Being d*unk you can't get or give active consent!

Years ago a police man may have sympathized with a woman 'bemoaning her husband's requirements' or her shameful d*unken and sexual behaviour.

Now the police force will pay absolute attention to either the above and take as much dna evidence as is available.

Men being mistreated by women is also recognised

100% agree active consent is essential!

And to me that's the different between people saying "the good old days where we use to go out get d*unk and as long as we are both consenting,have a one night stand"

because who's to say either is consenting really? You can only assume the extent of how d*unk they are, therefore their consent is only assumed.

I don't agree at all.

Of course there was unconsentual sex or assault. Nor do I believe anyone ever says it was 'fine' back in the day or these things didn't happen.

The difference being that now there is actually heightened awareness of the potential consequences along with more focus on avoiding the situation in the first place. A d*unken one night stand that someone regretted 20 years ago would never have had the potential to become a life changing court case, or in the case of celebrities a chance to make a quick buck and sell a story. Groupies shagged rock stars to brag to their mates, not to sell a story to the sun. People hooked up with people they possibly wouldn't when stone cold sober and did things they probably wouldn't with a long term partner. Can two people d*unk legally give consent? That's one for the courts. But people did - and still do - get together under the influence and part ways next morning without anything more than a hangover and a need for a shower.

Nobody disputes the need for consent. Nobody thinks anything forced is acceptable. Nobody believes there aren't people out there who abuse people in a state that they can't make a rational choice.

But likewise - not every d*unk encounter is a case of lack of consent. To think otherwise is ridiculous.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

Things have certainly changed , We have teens so they do all the new rules at uni , d*unk or high sex is non-consensual 100% r**e. Many young boys are now reluctant to have sex outside a relationship because of implications later if she regrets it and goes to the police

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By *aughtyYorkGentMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire

"Things have certainly changed , We have teens so they do all the new rules at uni , d*unk or high sex is non-consensual 100% r**e. Many young boys are now reluctant to have sex outside a relationship because of implications later if she regrets it and goes to the police"

While I absolutely stand by my comments above concerning the importance of consent and erring on the side of caution, I do find this post sadly symptomatic of today's society in a couple of ways. Firstly, we seem very adept at coming up with good and noble ideas and proceeding to take every one of them a stage too far. D*unk sex automatically r**e, regardless of the reality of the situation? Insane. Secondly, what about personal responsibility? Are we really saying that somebody who is d*unk and says "yes" to another's advances, then decides afterwards that they didn't want the encounter to happen, should bear no responsibility, legally or otherwise, for the event?

To me, expanding the definition of r**e to this extent just "devalues" the charge. It also criminalises a very significant proportion of the population who admit to d*unken one night stands, effectively labelling them no different to the monster who pounces on women in an alley. Maybe I will be told this is just a typical bloke's viewpoint, but I am trying to be objective...

The last part of this post just emphasises something that has always been the case - even without an element of intoxication, people can always cry r**e. When it's one person's word against another with, let's face it, a general tendency to trust the "victim", that's not a charge I'd like to have to defend. Even if we go to the extent of getting signatures on forms, what's to say the person signing won't claim afterwards that they did so under duress? Scary stuff.

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By *hubaysiWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"Consent is a really tricky issue. I know it is a passion killer but I've advised my late teenage son to be so careful that he might even consider doing a selfie video with him and any partner agreeing they are about to have sex. "

How romantic and she may not agree to being filmed?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"(Disclaimer- This is a long one, question + reasoning. Bare with me.)

Consent is the pinicle of priorities for me. So this is a question that's always stuck out for me.

If you're on a night out or at a party and you meet someone, you're both d*unk and it gets a little heated. Where does consent fit into this situation?

Genuine answers only please. "

Tricky one isnt it. I dont think consent can really be given or taken when d*unk, looking in on a situation. But I have had plenty of d*unken sex that I absolutely wanted and was consented.

I think you are probably right and pretty honourable to protect yourself in this way though, and in turn the other person. Better the quick rejection than trying to justify d*unken actions in a courtroom should it all go wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Long ago when the world was young and I was much younger d*unken sex often ended a night of partying. It was always consensual but the world has changed a lot since then.

Perhaps its because I'm older, if no wiser, that the idea of waking up with a sore head and a complete stranger in bed lacks the attractions it once had. In part it because of the way the world has changed and sensible self protection.

Its also about if we are going to have sex it's better if both parties are fully aware engaged and in complete agreement about the time we share together. It's rather more memorable, maybe even more meaningful, that way too. D*unk sex can often be crap sex too.

Like you OP I would walk away or rearrange until a safer more appropriate time.

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