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 Now I'm occasionally invited without having shown any interest whatsoever.
Yes I know the majority of men who message (pay attention men!) write inane dribble, offensive guff and put next to zero effort into their own profiles. They don't help their own cause very much if I'm brutally honest.
Would they be more likely to change if they were treated with a little more equality though? Put more effort in? Be more careful with who they message and how they do it? Start putting themselves in our shoes before opening those big fat dirty mouths? Tapping away to anyone with those big fat dirty thumbs? Would they be more honest, if we treated them with a little more equality?
Would it make a difference? That's my question to you. Fucking long winded way of asking, but that's my style, no apologies  | |||
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"Without doubt if *some* men changed their attitude their experience would improve and if *some* changed their attitude towards men the same would apply. However as with any commodity (and never claim that to many that's not what we are) the easier it is to obtain the less value will be placed on it." Wise words. I think that if you look at another person like a commodity, then you've no business being here, but that's my personal view and not one I expect anyone else to share. | |||
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"Without doubt if *some* men changed their attitude their experience would improve and if *some* changed their attitude towards men the same would apply. However as with any commodity (and never claim that to many that's not what we are) the easier it is to obtain the less value will be placed on it. Wise words. I think that if you look at another person like a commodity, then you've no business being here, but that's my personal view and not one I expect anyone else to share." A great many people on fab and probably elsewhere on the net view people as a commodity. Could swipe left or right be any more dehumanising? | |||
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"Without doubt if *some* men changed their attitude their experience would improve and if *some* changed their attitude towards men the same would apply. However as with any commodity (and never claim that to many that's not what we are) the easier it is to obtain the less value will be placed on it. Wise words. I think that if you look at another person like a commodity, then you've no business being here, but that's my personal view and not one I expect anyone else to share." I think the poster above was making the very valid point that there is a huge supply and demand imbalance between men and women which has grown to affect the behaviour of both groups. It wasn't dehumanising. My theory is that the vast majority of decent men have left for greener pastures leaving behind a disproportinate number of mugs who simply have very little skill with the opposite sex. | |||
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"Without doubt if *some* men changed their attitude their experience would improve and if *some* changed their attitude towards men the same would apply. However as with any commodity (and never claim that to many that's not what we are) the easier it is to obtain the less value will be placed on it. Wise words. I think that if you look at another person like a commodity, then you've no business being here, but that's my personal view and not one I expect anyone else to share. A great many people on fab and probably elsewhere on the net view people as a commodity. Could swipe left or right be any more dehumanising?" Agreed. | |||
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"Simply by becoming a member of Fabswingers or Fabguys, we are all opening ourselves up to criticism and prejudice from those who wouldn't and couldn't join a site like this. We are the minority, we choose to attempt to Face our Fears and Live our Dreams, well those of us who participate at least. There is potential to be recognised, harrassed and stalked by people who recognise us from the real world. In some cases even the media will get involved. It's a big risk for those of us, like me, who'd prefer to keep our real identity a secret, telling only those who've earnt the right to find out. I was under the impression, when I first started exploring hidden world's like these. That its a bit of a community, the forum on here occasionally feels that way to me. Especially when I get private or public messages of support, or what seem like genuine compliments. I've never been treated as kindly by a group of random strangers, despite my occasional confrontational attitude towards posts and posters who say something I disagree with. I'd like to thank most of you for that, it's come at a time where it's really helped build up my confidence towards exploring another side of myself. Having said that, my confidence took a right beating when I was on other sites similair to Fab. Not because of the crowd, but because I was a man. Changing my status on these sites has completely altered the number of messages I receive, the quality of messages I receive and the number of replies I recieve. In short, I'm more desirable than I was before. More approachable to the opposite sex, despite my bisexuality and tendency to dress up occasionally. I'm still me, still the same short guy, not changed in personality, or the way I approach messaging someone. Still honest as the day is long, still a confrontational little know-it-all. Still passionate, intense, creative and kind. People didn't want to know me before. I'm sure many still don't, but a damn site more seem to want to me now. I used to get charged ridiculous amounts of money to attend a club, now the price has dropped suddenly. I used to have to jump through hoops to just get a conversation going with someone. Wracking my brain on what might make her/them tick. Rather than just being myself (being myself - this me - didn't make any difference either. I used to have to beg for invites to places and parties (not strictly true, I've never begged anyone for anything - apart from when I was edged once - I did beg for relief Now I'm occasionally invited without having shown any interest whatsoever.
Yes I know the majority of men who message (pay attention men!) write inane dribble, offensive guff and put next to zero effort into their own profiles. They don't help their own cause very much if I'm brutally honest.
Would they be more likely to change if they were treated with a little more equality though? Put more effort in? Be more careful with who they message and how they do it? Start putting themselves in our shoes before opening those big fat dirty mouths? Tapping away to anyone with those big fat dirty thumbs? Would they be more honest, if we treated them with a little more equality?
Would it make a difference? That's my question to you. Fucking long winded way of asking, but that's my style, no apologies "I can relate snd sympathise with everything you’ve said. Majority of men will not change, society and it’s attitudes will carry them forward, but we can live in hope! | |||
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"Without doubt if *some* men changed their attitude their experience would improve and if *some* changed their attitude towards men the same would apply. However as with any commodity (and never claim that to many that's not what we are) the easier it is to obtain the less value will be placed on it. Wise words. I think that if you look at another person like a commodity, then you've no business being here, but that's my personal view and not one I expect anyone else to share. I think the poster above was making the very valid point that there is a huge supply and demand imbalance between men and women which has grown to affect the behaviour of both groups. It wasn't dehumanising. My theory is that the vast majority of decent men have left for greener pastures leaving behind a disproportinate number of mugs who simply have very little skill with the opposite sex. " I think treating someone as a commodity is dehumanizing. I think they made a valid point too, which is why I agreed. There is a disproportionate number of men and women. No hiding that. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many men leave and being dehumanized is a great reason for leaving. I'd advise anyone who feels this way and is effected by it to leave immedeatly. It's not an easy thing to cope with for everyone. Does that make you and I mugs  | |||
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"Simply by becoming a member of Fabswingers or Fabguys, we are all opening ourselves up to criticism and prejudice from those who wouldn't and couldn't join a site like this. We are the minority, we choose to attempt to Face our Fears and Live our Dreams, well those of us who participate at least. There is potential to be recognised, harrassed and stalked by people who recognise us from the real world. In some cases even the media will get involved. It's a big risk for those of us, like me, who'd prefer to keep our real identity a secret, telling only those who've earnt the right to find out. I was under the impression, when I first started exploring hidden world's like these. That its a bit of a community, the forum on here occasionally feels that way to me. Especially when I get private or public messages of support, or what seem like genuine compliments. I've never been treated as kindly by a group of random strangers, despite my occasional confrontational attitude towards posts and posters who say something I disagree with. I'd like to thank most of you for that, it's come at a time where it's really helped build up my confidence towards exploring another side of myself. Having said that, my confidence took a right beating when I was on other sites similair to Fab. Not because of the crowd, but because I was a man. Changing my status on these sites has completely altered the number of messages I receive, the quality of messages I receive and the number of replies I recieve. In short, I'm more desirable than I was before. More approachable to the opposite sex, despite my bisexuality and tendency to dress up occasionally. I'm still me, still the same short guy, not changed in personality, or the way I approach messaging someone. Still honest as the day is long, still a confrontational little know-it-all. Still passionate, intense, creative and kind. People didn't want to know me before. I'm sure many still don't, but a damn site more seem to want to me now. I used to get charged ridiculous amounts of money to attend a club, now the price has dropped suddenly. I used to have to jump through hoops to just get a conversation going with someone. Wracking my brain on what might make her/them tick. Rather than just being myself (being myself - this me - didn't make any difference either. I used to have to beg for invites to places and parties (not strictly true, I've never begged anyone for anything - apart from when I was edged once - I did beg for relief Now I'm occasionally invited without having shown any interest whatsoever.
Yes I know the majority of men who message (pay attention men!) write inane dribble, offensive guff and put next to zero effort into their own profiles. They don't help their own cause very much if I'm brutally honest.
Would they be more likely to change if they were treated with a little more equality though? Put more effort in? Be more careful with who they message and how they do it? Start putting themselves in our shoes before opening those big fat dirty mouths? Tapping away to anyone with those big fat dirty thumbs? Would they be more honest, if we treated them with a little more equality?
Would it make a difference? That's my question to you. Fucking long winded way of asking, but that's my style, no apologies
I can relate snd sympathise with everything you’ve said. Majority of men will not change, society and it’s attitudes will carry them forward, but we can live in hope!"I think its a mistake to lay the blame at the door of men. Admittedly some men do themselves no favours but neither do some women. | |||
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"Without doubt if *some* men changed their attitude their experience would improve and if *some* changed their attitude towards men the same would apply. However as with any commodity (and never claim that to many that's not what we are) the easier it is to obtain the less value will be placed on it. Wise words. I think that if you look at another person like a commodity, then you've no business being here, but that's my personal view and not one I expect anyone else to share. I think the poster above was making the very valid point that there is a huge supply and demand imbalance between men and women which has grown to affect the behaviour of both groups. It wasn't dehumanising. My theory is that the vast majority of decent men have left for greener pastures leaving behind a disproportinate number of mugs who simply have very little skill with the opposite sex. I think treating someone as a commodity is dehumanizing. I think they made a valid point too, which is why I agreed. There is a disproportionate number of men and women. No hiding that. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many men leave and being dehumanized is a great reason for leaving. I'd advise anyone who feels this way and is effected by it to leave immedeatly. It's not an easy thing to cope with for everyone. Does that make you and I mugs "I am me, not you or anyone else | |||
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"Without doubt if *some* men changed their attitude their experience would improve and if *some* changed their attitude towards men the same would apply. However as with any commodity (and never claim that to many that's not what we are) the easier it is to obtain the less value will be placed on it. Wise words. I think that if you look at another person like a commodity, then you've no business being here, but that's my personal view and not one I expect anyone else to share. I think the poster above was making the very valid point that there is a huge supply and demand imbalance between men and women which has grown to affect the behaviour of both groups. It wasn't dehumanising. My theory is that the vast majority of decent men have left for greener pastures leaving behind a disproportinate number of mugs who simply have very little skill with the opposite sex. I think treating someone as a commodity is dehumanizing. I think they made a valid point too, which is why I agreed. There is a disproportionate number of men and women. No hiding that. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many men leave and being dehumanized is a great reason for leaving. I'd advise anyone who feels this way and is effected by it to leave immedeatly. It's not an easy thing to cope with for everyone. Does that make you and I mugs
I am me, not you or anyone else "I'm not a mug, I can't speak for you, so I'm not sure what that says about your theory. | |||
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"Why are you making it personal....a majority or minority has got room for everyone. I never said "ALL" " Ok.. not "All" Yes, I might have accidentally twisted a word. That wasn't intentional and I will apologise for that. Vast majority isn't far off though is it? It gets personal when you go on the offensive. I know that all too well, as guilty as anyone else on here. Ok you weren't going on offensive with me, but I don't like your tone or views on the other thread, what you've said in this one, is related to that one. You could have backed me up in this thread, giving an example of how you've been treated as less than human. You're a man on Fab, I know it's happened, even you can't be that good with the women that you've never experienced any of what I just described. Yes, you are you, I am me, we're all different. My point was.. I don't expect you to see it straight away given you may not have experienced both the male and female experiences on here. That I'm still a man, though by changing one tiny box, because of a sexual exploration, the world is slowly becoming my oyster. That's the only thing that changed to change the way in which I was treated. | |||
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"You weren't a sex object before. You are now. " Exactly. So can see it from all sides and it all makes sense. It doesn't feel right though and doesn't have to be that way. Is what I guess I'm trying to say. | |||
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"Without doubt if *some* men changed their attitude their experience would improve and if *some* changed their attitude towards men the same would apply. However as with any commodity (and never claim that to many that's not what we are) the easier it is to obtain the less value will be placed on it. Wise words. I think that if you look at another person like a commodity, then you've no business being here, but that's my personal view and not one I expect anyone else to share. I think the poster above was making the very valid point that there is a huge supply and demand imbalance between men and women which has grown to affect the behaviour of both groups. It wasn't dehumanising. My theory is that the vast majority of decent men have left for greener pastures leaving behind a disproportinate number of mugs who simply have very little skill with the opposite sex. I think treating someone as a commodity is dehumanizing. I think they made a valid point too, which is why I agreed. There is a disproportionate number of men and women. No hiding that. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many men leave and being dehumanized is a great reason for leaving. I'd advise anyone who feels this way and is effected by it to leave immedeatly. It's not an easy thing to cope with for everyone. Does that make you and I mugs "I've no doubt people leave because the site doesn't provide what they expect and that they feel there is a sense of inequality. But that said, I'd dispute the 'for greener pastures' comment. It's the same on any similar site. Those who leave won't find anywhere easier to find sex unless paying a professional is their choice. Plenty of single guys enjoy a good experience on here and have no problems meeting others. A lot of the perceived negatives and the sense of inequality is self induced by the way people choose to approach the site and how the interact. Anyone can enjoy life here. It all comes down to expectancy and behaviour. A | |||
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"Without doubt if *some* men changed their attitude their experience would improve and if *some* changed their attitude towards men the same would apply. However as with any commodity (and never claim that to many that's not what we are) the easier it is to obtain the less value will be placed on it. Wise words. I think that if you look at another person like a commodity, then you've no business being here, but that's my personal view and not one I expect anyone else to share. I think the poster above was making the very valid point that there is a huge supply and demand imbalance between men and women which has grown to affect the behaviour of both groups. It wasn't dehumanising. My theory is that the vast majority of decent men have left for greener pastures leaving behind a disproportinate number of mugs who simply have very little skill with the opposite sex. I think treating someone as a commodity is dehumanizing. I think they made a valid point too, which is why I agreed. There is a disproportionate number of men and women. No hiding that. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many men leave and being dehumanized is a great reason for leaving. I'd advise anyone who feels this way and is effected by it to leave immedeatly. It's not an easy thing to cope with for everyone. Does that make you and I mugs
I've no doubt people leave because the site doesn't provide what they expect and that they feel there is a sense of inequality.
But that said, I'd dispute the 'for greener pastures' comment. It's the same on any similar site. Those who leave won't find anywhere easier to find sex unless paying a professional is their choice. Plenty of single guys enjoy a good experience on here and have no problems meeting others.
A lot of the perceived negatives and the sense of inequality is self induced by the way people choose to approach the site and how the interact.
Anyone can enjoy life here. It all comes down to expectancy and behaviour.
A "All very true. But you have to admit. A man can learn all the things he needs to know about this lifestyle. Be everything most good, or bad  people would want them to be on a site like this. Able to communicate clearly and with flirtatious grace. Behave with charm and look like a Greek God. Hung like a gorilla and built like the back end of a truck.
A man like that can still find it really hard to get a meet on here. I know because some are messaging me! Only... I'm doing what many others do on here. I caught myself doing it and didn't like it.
I was looking for holes instead of spotting the positives. I'm not inundated, my profile gives most people with common sense a chance to avoid a snappy, bitch response. So I do have the time to respond to a few. I'm declining some with a little more grace, a thankyou and a parting gift of wisdom to help them along the tracks.
At the moment it's being well received and I've not been continuously bugged afterwards like I thought I'd be. Time will tell I guess. | |||
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"Without doubt if *some* men changed their attitude their experience would improve and if *some* changed their attitude towards men the same would apply. However as with any commodity (and never claim that to many that's not what we are) the easier it is to obtain the less value will be placed on it. Wise words. I think that if you look at another person like a commodity, then you've no business being here, but that's my personal view and not one I expect anyone else to share. I think the poster above was making the very valid point that there is a huge supply and demand imbalance between men and women which has grown to affect the behaviour of both groups. It wasn't dehumanising. My theory is that the vast majority of decent men have left for greener pastures leaving behind a disproportinate number of mugs who simply have very little skill with the opposite sex. I think treating someone as a commodity is dehumanizing. I think they made a valid point too, which is why I agreed. There is a disproportionate number of men and women. No hiding that. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many men leave and being dehumanized is a great reason for leaving. I'd advise anyone who feels this way and is effected by it to leave immedeatly. It's not an easy thing to cope with for everyone. Does that make you and I mugs
I've no doubt people leave because the site doesn't provide what they expect and that they feel there is a sense of inequality.
But that said, I'd dispute the 'for greener pastures' comment. It's the same on any similar site. Those who leave won't find anywhere easier to find sex unless paying a professional is their choice. Plenty of single guys enjoy a good experience on here and have no problems meeting others.
A lot of the perceived negatives and the sense of inequality is self induced by the way people choose to approach the site and how the interact.
Anyone can enjoy life here. It all comes down to expectancy and behaviour.
A
All very true.
But you have to admit. A man can learn all the things he needs to know about this lifestyle. Be everything most good, or bad people would want them to be on a site like this. Able to communicate clearly and with flirtatious grace. Behave with charm and look like a Greek God. Hung like a gorilla and built like the back end of a truck.
A man like that can still find it really hard to get a meet on here. I know because some are messaging me! Only... I'm doing what many others do on here. I caught myself doing it and didn't like it.
I was looking for holes instead of spotting the positives. I'm not inundated, my profile gives most people with common sense a chance to avoid a snappy, bitch response. So I do have the time to respond to a few. I'm declining some with a little more grace, a thankyou and a parting gift of wisdom to help them along the tracks.
At the moment it's being well received and I've not been continuously bugged afterwards like I thought I'd be. Time will tell I guess. "You're on the same learning curve we all were on when joining. Nobody signs up and has instant success. The guy you described above, should he possess all the characteristics and behaviours mentioned, would soon settle in and enjoy life. The site is just a communications channel - nothing more, nothing less. I think the frustrations for many come from an expectancy that just signing up will get them a meet and that they rush headlong into a scattergun approach trying to get that first meet. They don't evolve, change their behaviours and learn from their experiences. So they leave and blame the site and the imbalance between genders rather than themselves. All good things come to those that wait, have patience and a realistic sense of what the internet can do for them. A | |||
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"Without doubt if *some* men changed their attitude their experience would improve and if *some* changed their attitude towards men the same would apply. However as with any commodity (and never claim that to many that's not what we are) the easier it is to obtain the less value will be placed on it. Wise words. I think that if you look at another person like a commodity, then you've no business being here, but that's my personal view and not one I expect anyone else to share. I think the poster above was making the very valid point that there is a huge supply and demand imbalance between men and women which has grown to affect the behaviour of both groups. It wasn't dehumanising. My theory is that the vast majority of decent men have left for greener pastures leaving behind a disproportinate number of mugs who simply have very little skill with the opposite sex. I think treating someone as a commodity is dehumanizing. I think they made a valid point too, which is why I agreed. There is a disproportionate number of men and women. No hiding that. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many men leave and being dehumanized is a great reason for leaving. I'd advise anyone who feels this way and is effected by it to leave immedeatly. It's not an easy thing to cope with for everyone. Does that make you and I mugs
I've no doubt people leave because the site doesn't provide what they expect and that they feel there is a sense of inequality.
But that said, I'd dispute the 'for greener pastures' comment. It's the same on any similar site. Those who leave won't find anywhere easier to find sex unless paying a professional is their choice. Plenty of single guys enjoy a good experience on here and have no problems meeting others.
A lot of the perceived negatives and the sense of inequality is self induced by the way people choose to approach the site and how the interact.
Anyone can enjoy life here. It all comes down to expectancy and behaviour.
A
All very true.
But you have to admit. A man can learn all the things he needs to know about this lifestyle. Be everything most good, or bad people would want them to be on a site like this. Able to communicate clearly and with flirtatious grace. Behave with charm and look like a Greek God. Hung like a gorilla and built like the back end of a truck.
A man like that can still find it really hard to get a meet on here. I know because some are messaging me! Only... I'm doing what many others do on here. I caught myself doing it and didn't like it.
I was looking for holes instead of spotting the positives. I'm not inundated, my profile gives most people with common sense a chance to avoid a snappy, bitch response. So I do have the time to respond to a few. I'm declining some with a little more grace, a thankyou and a parting gift of wisdom to help them along the tracks.
At the moment it's being well received and I've not been continuously bugged afterwards like I thought I'd be. Time will tell I guess.
You're on the same learning curve we all were on when joining. Nobody signs up and has instant success.
The guy you described above, should he possess all the characteristics and behaviours mentioned, would soon settle in and enjoy life. The site is just a communications channel - nothing more, nothing less.
I think the frustrations for many come from an expectancy that just signing up will get them a meet and that they rush headlong into a scattergun approach trying to get that first meet. They don't evolve, change their behaviours and learn from their experiences. So they leave and blame the site and the imbalance between genders rather than themselves.
All good things come to those that wait, have patience and a realistic sense of what the internet can do for them.
A"I agree with you. Which is why I try and leave people with a little hope. | |||
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"I don't think it's so much a case of equality as a lack of understanding the majority of the time, and that's from all sides of the equation - it's a never ending vicious circle that starts with guys signing up to the site seeing "Sex Site" emblazoned in the proverbial flashing lights and thinking that's an instant pass to Shag City. So they create their minimal profile and expect to receive messages and replies to their own instantly, believe that because it's a sex site that taking pics of their cock from 30 different angles is the way to go etc etc - they soon become frustrated and disillusioned when they find the golden pass they thought they held was neither gold, nor a pass. That then leads them to either take out their frustration with ever more messages and moany forum posts etc or in a few cases sit back and assess where they might be going wrong and make changes to improve their experience. Meanwhile on the other side of the fence those that are receiving the crap messages and reading the rubbish profiles are getting frustrated at the situation and bemoan those that send them the rubbish, and in some instances don't use the site provided tools to limit the rubbish in. And so the circle continues. While all this goes on there are those, ladies, couples, men, TV's alike who do "get" it, who do have the right attitude and approach, who do see beyond the "Sex Site" tag who accept that there will be *some* who don't get it and never will, and accept that they're not entitled to sex just for signing up - those people, and there are more than you may think, and I honestly believe the gender split amongst them is a lot more evenly balanced, those people are having a great time. So to come back to my original point I don't think it's necessarily about treating each other with equality, although it is of course part of the answer, but about understanding the site, how it works, and how to work it - and that applies whether you're a toned Adonis or an over the hill, greying, average bloke like me. The only problem is, the vast majority that don't "get" it, will never do so, because they either won't listen or no-one tells them, or both. " I can't argue with one bit of that. Fair enough  | |||
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"I'm struggling to understand what you actually mean when you suggest treating with equality " To be honest with you, after what Gemini just said, I'm not sure I do either  | |||
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" I can't argue with one bit of that. Fair enough "See? We can agree | |||
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" I can't argue with one bit of that. Fair enough
See? We can agree "I never for one moment thought we couldn't. We just didn't to begin with, which is why I try not to get two personal No need to make an enemy out of a potential friend | |||
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" I can't argue with one bit of that. Fair enough
See? We can agree
I never for one moment thought we couldn't. We just didn't to begin with, which is why I try not to get two personal No need to make an enemy out of a potential friend "I really just did that... "Two" Kill me now! It's bedtime. | |||
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" I can't argue with one bit of that. Fair enough
See? We can agree
I never for one moment thought we couldn't. We just didn't to begin with, which is why I try not to get too personal No need to make an enemy out of a potential friend "Nor did I, my tongue was firmly in my...cheek with that comment
And FTFY | |||
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"I don't think it's so much a case of equality as a lack of understanding the majority of the time, and that's from all sides of the equation - it's a never ending vicious circle that starts with guys signing up to the site seeing "Sex Site" emblazoned in the proverbial flashing lights and thinking that's an instant pass to Shag City. So they create their minimal profile and expect to receive messages and replies to their own instantly, believe that because it's a sex site that taking pics of their cock from 30 different angles is the way to go etc etc - they soon become frustrated and disillusioned when they find the golden pass they thought they held was neither gold, nor a pass. That then leads them to either take out their frustration with ever more messages and moany forum posts etc or in a few cases sit back and assess where they might be going wrong and make changes to improve their experience. Meanwhile on the other side of the fence those that are receiving the crap messages and reading the rubbish profiles are getting frustrated at the situation and bemoan those that send them the rubbish, and in some instances don't use the site provided tools to limit the rubbish in. And so the circle continues. While all this goes on there are those, ladies, couples, men, TV's alike who do "get" it, who do have the right attitude and approach, who do see beyond the "Sex Site" tag who accept that there will be *some* who don't get it and never will, and accept that they're not entitled to sex just for signing up - those people, and there are more than you may think, and I honestly believe the gender split amongst them is a lot more evenly balanced, those people are having a great time. So to come back to my original point I don't think it's necessarily about treating each other with equality, although it is of course part of the answer, but about understanding the site, how it works, and how to work it - and that applies whether you're a toned Adonis or an over the hill, greying, average bloke like me. The only problem is, the vast majority that don't "get" it, will never do so, because they either won't listen or no-one tells them, or both. " nailed it | |||
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"Equality... It has a long way to go and unfortunately we'll never see it in our time... As long as there's money to be made it'll never change in the sex world. A good example of it is clubs... Some prices are like this Single men pay £30-50 .. couples pay £25-35 .. women + trans free - £10 .... I honestly think prices could be fairer or equal say £20 man or women and £30 for couples.... Just limit/control who goes in to stop it being all men and what not." That's simply a case of numbers I'm afraid. It has to be that way. In an ideal world an honourable club owner wouldn't accept male members, unless they've been invited in, because it's not really fair to take your money. Its how they make a living though. Fab is not a club. Fab is it's own thing and must be treated as such. Read Geminis posts above mine. He explained it in a better way. I was attempting to make people think about it, he gave the perfect answer. If you follow that advice, you won't need to grumble about clubs costs. I hope this helps you. | |||
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"Equality... It has a long way to go and unfortunately we'll never see it in our time... As long as there's money to be made it'll never change in the sex world. A good example of it is clubs... Some prices are like this Single men pay £30-50 .. couples pay £25-35 .. women + trans free - £10 .... I honestly think prices could be fairer or equal say £20 man or women and £30 for couples.... Just limit/control who goes in to stop it being all men and what not." It's supply and demand at play though - yes it's about profit too, and some clubs run their business models on a lot more equal basis than others, maybe because in their area it works for them. Ultimately it is no different from Fab where there are a lot of men, and they outnumber the ladies and couples by somewhere between 10 and 15 to 1 - extrapolate that situation to clubs, and they have to offer lower prices to ladies to attract them in, otherwise, regardless of whether you restricted the number of single men allowed or not, you'd have a lot of single men and no ladies/couples. So, as a single guy, you either accept the situation or vote with your feet - no-one is forcing you to attend | |||
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"Not enough love. People just see the sex and not the human. The answer is Fab itself. New entrants should be made aware that this is not a site for desperate men who have got no where on vanilla sites. And, a report and possible suspension of accounts process for abusive messages. I am sure there could be other actions to improve this situation. Fab needs to change, but it's probably only interested in how many members it has, rather than their overall experience...." Do you think the warning would discourage them? | |||
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"Not enough love. People just see the sex and not the human. The answer is Fab itself. New entrants should be made aware that this is not a site for desperate men who have got no where on vanilla sites. And, a report and possible suspension of accounts process for abusive messages. I am sure there could be other actions to improve this situation. Fab needs to change, but it's probably only interested in how many members it has, rather than their overall experience.... Do you think the warning would discourage them? "Some would be put off. Maybe not a lot, but the reduction of abusive messages may increase couple and single female numbers or at least stop them leaving. This is key to Fabs existence. Generally make it a nicer place, which makes business sense. Plus there are other things they could do. It would still be heavily weighted towards single guys. I would say charge single guys to join, but they would just join on a couple profile and say she was 'busy'. | |||
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"Not enough love. People just see the sex and not the human. The answer is Fab itself. New entrants should be made aware that this is not a site for desperate men who have got no where on vanilla sites. And, a report and possible suspension of accounts process for abusive messages. I am sure there could be other actions to improve this situation. Fab needs to change, but it's probably only interested in how many members it has, rather than their overall experience...." I don't think the answer lies with the site - it is after all just a facilitator to all this - they already have a report function for abusive messages, no shows and other misdemeanours, which they do investigate and take action against (including banning the offenders where necessary) but there needs to be clear evidence of said misdemeanours to take action. So I honestly don't think it's a case of Fab needing to change anything, and to be honest I'm not sure what they could change which would address some of the problems on this thread apart from maybe making every new member (men, women, couples, TV's alike) "sign" to say they have read the site FAQs and other general information that would be presented at sign up that made it clear there were no guarantees and laid out rough guidelines for using the site - but much the same as the T's and C's we all say we've read but never do, most people wouldn't actually read them. Or perhaps at the top of each forum there could be a sticky post that includes the FAQs and guidelines. As I suggested further up thread the key to all this is with users themselves getting an understanding how the site works and how to maximise their chances of making it work for them, but while you can lead those users to water, you can't always make them drink. | |||
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"Not enough love. People just see the sex and not the human. The answer is Fab itself. New entrants should be made aware that this is not a site for desperate men who have got no where on vanilla sites. And, a report and possible suspension of accounts process for abusive messages. I am sure there could be other actions to improve this situation. Fab needs to change, but it's probably only interested in how many members it has, rather than their overall experience.... I don't think the answer lies with the site - it is after all just a facilitator to all this - they already have a report function for abusive messages, no shows and other misdemeanours, which they do investigate and take action against (including banning the offenders where necessary) but there needs to be clear evidence of said misdemeanours to take action. So I honestly don't think it's a case of Fab needing to change anything, and to be honest I'm not sure what they could change which would address some of the problems on this thread apart from maybe making every new member (men, women, couples, TV's alike) "sign" to say they have read the site FAQs and other general information that would be presented at sign up that made it clear there were no guarantees and laid out rough guidelines for using the site - but much the same as the T's and C's we all say we've read but never do, most people wouldn't actually read them. Or perhaps at the top of each forum there could be a sticky post that includes the FAQs and guidelines. As I suggested further up thread the key to all this is with users themselves getting an understanding how the site works and how to maximise their chances of making it work for them, but while you can lead those users to water, you can't always make them drink." I see your point, but the common feeling is that there are a lot of abusive messages, and the system in place is not working regarding reporting and reacting. Therefore another option needs to be taken. I am a single male, so I feel I can say this. Couples and single girls are what this site is based on. Single guys are everywhere, 10 a penny. By focusing on the couples and single girls their numbers will grow. This will benefit the single males, job done and everyone is happy. I don't think you can lead some people to water, it's just the way they are.... unfortunately. Fab could ask for help from experienced Fabbers to anonymously make a decision on reported messages. (Swinger Judges?) Think I'm being a bit idealistic  | |||
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"Not enough love. People just see the sex and not the human. The answer is Fab itself. New entrants should be made aware that this is not a site for desperate men who have got no where on vanilla sites. And, a report and possible suspension of accounts process for abusive messages. I am sure there could be other actions to improve this situation. Fab needs to change, but it's probably only interested in how many members it has, rather than their overall experience.... I don't think the answer lies with the site - it is after all just a facilitator to all this - they already have a report function for abusive messages, no shows and other misdemeanours, which they do investigate and take action against (including banning the offenders where necessary) but there needs to be clear evidence of said misdemeanours to take action. So I honestly don't think it's a case of Fab needing to change anything, and to be honest I'm not sure what they could change which would address some of the problems on this thread apart from maybe making every new member (men, women, couples, TV's alike) "sign" to say they have read the site FAQs and other general information that would be presented at sign up that made it clear there were no guarantees and laid out rough guidelines for using the site - but much the same as the T's and C's we all say we've read but never do, most people wouldn't actually read them. Or perhaps at the top of each forum there could be a sticky post that includes the FAQs and guidelines. As I suggested further up thread the key to all this is with users themselves getting an understanding how the site works and how to maximise their chances of making it work for them, but while you can lead those users to water, you can't always make them drink. I see your point, but the common feeling is that there are a lot of abusive messages, and the system in place is not working regarding reporting and reacting. Therefore another option needs to be taken. I am a single male, so I feel I can say this. Couples and single girls are what this site is based on. Single guys are everywhere, 10 a penny. By focusing on the couples and single girls their numbers will grow. This will benefit the single males, job done and everyone is happy. I don't think you can lead some people to water, it's just the way they are.... unfortunately. Fab could ask for help from experienced Fabbers to anonymously make a decision on reported messages. (Swinger Judges?) Think I'm being a bit idealistic "I think you are to be honest - as I said I'm not sure what changes could be made to improve things - again we have "Swinger Judges" which are the mods, maybe more of them would help, but they're restricted in what they can do unless there is clear evidence of abuse. As I suggested earlier in the thread, it all comes down to understanding of the site and there are plenty that do, who do use filters to restrict the abuse, who do know how to interact with others appropriately etc - but for those who don't you can try and help them understand but as has been said you can lead them to water but you can't always make them drink. | |||
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"I don't think charging single men to use fab would help. Most arseholes have money to burn, not every decent man does. It's put me off being on Fab. Fab and some sites like it are one of the few places within this lifestyle that are.. as far as I can see.. totally neutral and absolutely fair to both sexes." I've seen plenty of people say that other sites that charge membership fees have just as many "entitled" men as this place to know that's not the answer - if anything it would possibly give an even greater sense of entitlement because they had paid a fee. You see it here occasionally with the posts that go along the lines of "I've paid for membership but still don't get replies..." Unfortunately there really is no answer to the problem other than carrying on being true to yourself and acting appropriately and not letting those that are abusive or negative get you down, but where the opportunity arises at least be open to helping and/or educating them when they are prepared to listen (and sometimes when they are not!!). | |||
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