Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Swingers Chat |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand?" Trust me there is women out there (me) that agree with you. So what if a chocolate bar had "Not for girls" written on them?!? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand?" The best women tend not to be feminist's | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand?" Some women are taking on male traits and its natural for some men to feel threatened/intimidated/unsettled by that. Snide comments are not just the realm of the male nowadays and I am not saying its right but you still get them like it or not. Just do as most women do and avoid the ones of the opposite sex who don't appeal to you. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand?" just be yourself if it comes naturally to be a gent be one, I got up on train and offered my seat to a very attractive woman she initially turned me down but I said I'm standing now sit down and eat your lunch, the train was very busy rail strike action taking place she eventually got up and gave it to an older lady we all got chatting turns out the young attractive woman was a doctor and the old lady in her 90s came from battersea not far from where I was brought up | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe in equality. I believe women should be paid the same if they are doing the same job. I believe women should be able to walk the streets at night without being told it's their fault for being r*ped if they do. I don't care about man-size tissues, or 'not for girl's' chocolate. I still use those tissues, I still eat that chocolate. If a man wants to give up his seat for me, or hold a door open I'll say thanks with a smile on my face, equally I'll hold the door open for anyone male, female or neither. I think some, not all feminists are focusing on the wrong battles. And by doing so, are going to end up losing the war."  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Far worse feminists on a dating app I'm on... Here's a copy and paste of my profile from it... The hate mail I received from the feminists in hilarious, so angry they don't get the humour. Personal info I'm just a typical online dater.... I've got three kids... Maybe four with different mothers. Currently on house arrest, although I am honestly innocent... My only two hobbies are drinking and snorting heavily cut drugs... And if after our first date we end up back at your place (highly doubtful) I'll struggle to get hard.... I'm actually joking and can't take this seriously anymore... ?? ... Always thought it's best to be single, why let someone ruin your life when you can do that by yourself ??... I don't sell myself very well. My appearance changes, at times I'm clean shaven = other times I do the facial hair thing. My literature ambitions previously had been limited to Christmas cards, I've exerted myself writing all the above. By the way, my private photos are just facial photographs... Nothing of my other anatomy, sorry to disappoint. I am actually a normal person, tend to prefer animals to people in general too. And to save More questions asking, yes I am bloody English... Ciao Relationship: I'm single Sexuality: I'm straight Appearance: 5' 10'', athletic body, black hair and blue eyes Living: Children: Someday Smoking: Drinking: " You sound brilliant to me. 
Keep it like that. You'll attract similar people and deter the humourless ones. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Giving up seats? Holding doors open? As a child I was taught that this was good manners to show towards anyone, not just ladies or the elderly. It's a code I've tried to follow all my life. So, now I'm sometimes on the receiving end. OK, so now I'm older. Look at my profile and photos and you'll see I'm far from incapable. I must admit the first few times this happened I felt a little put out, that someone thought I needed 'special help'. Then I realised that there are still people in the world that display good manners without question. I've learnt to accept graciously even though I don't need any "special treatment". Glad to see good manners is not totally defunct." that true but these days there no such thing anymore like manners..  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| Reply privately |
"Far worse feminists on a dating app I'm on... Here's a copy and paste of my profile from it... The hate mail I received from the feminists in hilarious, so angry they don't get the humour. Personal info I'm just a typical online dater.... I've got three kids... Maybe four with different mothers. Currently on house arrest, although I am honestly innocent... My only two hobbies are drinking and snorting heavily cut drugs... And if after our first date we end up back at your place (highly doubtful) I'll struggle to get hard.... I'm actually joking and can't take this seriously anymore... ?? ... Always thought it's best to be single, why let someone ruin your life when you can do that by yourself ??... I don't sell myself very well. My appearance changes, at times I'm clean shaven = other times I do the facial hair thing. My literature ambitions previously had been limited to Christmas cards, I've exerted myself writing all the above. By the way, my private photos are just facial photographs... Nothing of my other anatomy, sorry to disappoint. I am actually a normal person, tend to prefer animals to people in general too. And to save More questions asking, yes I am bloody English... Ciao Relationship: I'm single Sexuality: I'm straight Appearance: 5' 10'', athletic body, black hair and blue eyes Living: Children: Someday Smoking: Drinking: " hang on a minute.... you're good looking, you're funny, nice body.. what's the catch... oh wait you're on the other side of the country - DAMN it! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand?" I was only talking about this this morning and I haven't really got the energy to debate with third wave feminists. This is just to back you up and say I hear you and agree with what you are saying. Very brave coming into the forums to say what you have said. Things turn so nasty here when it has been raised on similar posts before. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I wonder what the new name for mothercare will be? " And mother nature shall be none gender specific nature. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Got to agree. But not just feminazis, it seems the world is splitting into little subgroups and pushing thier agendas which is becoming tiresome. Feminism seems to have surpassed equality and now seems to seek to put men down. The whole gender neutral thing is silly. Affirmative action is now being shoehorned in everywhere, even when it makes no sense and is unnecessary. Either that or I'm just getting old and waving my fist at the youth of today. " Exactly. It's hardly just men vrs women. It's just all sorts of identity politics tribal crap. I'm embarassed by the current culture. Both when foreigners tell me they admire our freedoms and I know that when the history books are written, this decade will be a shitty one where everyone is presented as an idiot like the 1970s. Hence I want my digital footprint to show that I didn't go along with it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Got to agree. But not just feminazis, it seems the world is splitting into little subgroups and pushing thier agendas which is becoming tiresome. Feminism seems to have surpassed equality and now seems to seek to put men down. The whole gender neutral thing is silly. Affirmative action is now being shoehorned in everywhere, even when it makes no sense and is unnecessary. Either that or I'm just getting old and waving my fist at the youth of today. " Don't worry. I'm 25, and even I'm waving my fists at the youth of my generation and younger. You know what would take all this steam out of society though? A good old war. Sometimes there's something to be said about war war instead of just all the jaw jaw we're getting nowadays from everyone of everything imaginable. People seem far less eager to mouth off and take up asinine causes or pick pointless-in-the-greater-scheme-of-things fights when they know they have to take up arms to fight their corner and defend their cause. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Got to agree. But not just feminazis, it seems the world is splitting into little subgroups and pushing thier agendas which is becoming tiresome. Feminism seems to have surpassed equality and now seems to seek to put men down. The whole gender neutral thing is silly. Affirmative action is now being shoehorned in everywhere, even when it makes no sense and is unnecessary. Either that or I'm just getting old and waving my fist at the youth of today. Don't worry. I'm 25, and even I'm waving my fists at the youth of my generation and younger. You know what would take all this steam out of society though? A good old war. Sometimes there's something to be said about war war instead of just all the jaw jaw we're getting nowadays from everyone of everything imaginable. People seem far less eager to mouth off and take up asinine causes or pick pointless-in-the-greater-scheme-of-things fights when they know they have to take up arms to fight their corner and defend their cause. " Who shall we invade... I mean liberate? Personally I'd like to reclaim that rebellious colony calling itself the United States of America. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I like to think I'm a strong, independent woman but I still like a man to hold doors open or pull a chair out for me. Nothing wrong with a man acting like a gentleman x" I got told off for opening a door for a woman. I can do it she shouted,  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I like to think I'm a strong, independent woman but I still like a man to hold doors open or pull a chair out for me. Nothing wrong with a man acting like a gentleman x" This . I’m independent, I run my own successful business, I don’t rely on a man but I also cannot stand all this feminist crap. I like a gentleman and I like manners. I like the door being opened for me as long as you slap my arse as I walk through it  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Got to agree. But not just feminazis, it seems the world is splitting into little subgroups and pushing thier agendas which is becoming tiresome. Feminism seems to have surpassed equality and now seems to seek to put men down. The whole gender neutral thing is silly. Affirmative action is now being shoehorned in everywhere, even when it makes no sense and is unnecessary. Either that or I'm just getting old and waving my fist at the youth of today. Don't worry. I'm 25, and even I'm waving my fists at the youth of my generation and younger. You know what would take all this steam out of society though? A good old war. Sometimes there's something to be said about war war instead of just all the jaw jaw we're getting nowadays from everyone of everything imaginable. People seem far less eager to mouth off and take up asinine causes or pick pointless-in-the-greater-scheme-of-things fights when they know they have to take up arms to fight their corner and defend their cause. Who shall we invade... I mean liberate? Personally I'd like to reclaim that rebellious colony calling itself the United States of America." Bring back the empire | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Got to agree. But not just feminazis, it seems the world is splitting into little subgroups and pushing thier agendas which is becoming tiresome. Feminism seems to have surpassed equality and now seems to seek to put men down. The whole gender neutral thing is silly. Affirmative action is now being shoehorned in everywhere, even when it makes no sense and is unnecessary. Either that or I'm just getting old and waving my fist at the youth of today. Don't worry. I'm 25, and even I'm waving my fists at the youth of my generation and younger. You know what would take all this steam out of society though? A good old war. Sometimes there's something to be said about war war instead of just all the jaw jaw we're getting nowadays from everyone of everything imaginable. People seem far less eager to mouth off and take up asinine causes or pick pointless-in-the-greater-scheme-of-things fights when they know they have to take up arms to fight their corner and defend their cause. Who shall we invade... I mean liberate? Personally I'd like to reclaim that rebellious colony calling itself the United States of America. Bring back the empire "Imagine how much more progressive, equal, and modern large swathes of the world would be now if the Empire still existed but we also had the same advancements in social mores and law liberalisation that exist in modern-day Britain. *RULE BRITANNIA INTENSIFIES* | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 hard on the outside soft in the middle perfection  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Oh yeah. And I’m a feminist. Big time. " You scare me. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Women and children are disproportionately r*ped and murdered by men. R*pists are so rarely convicted we almost might as well legalise r*pe for all the good the law does. Get on board and help solve this horrifying problem, then I’ll have a lot more time for how your feelings were hurt by a hash tag. #metoo" Rape convictions are so rarely pressed and successful because the vast majority of victims do themselves no favours by not reporting in the critical first 24 to 48 hours, preserving key biological and physical evidence that could prove instrumental in bringing their rapists to justice under the law with the advancements in forensics today. Don't make it sound as though the law protects rapists or has an unnecessarily high bar for convictions to even be considered. #MeToo is simply a mob movement subjecting people to trial by media and public opinion. Which would sound fine when you're the one doing it to others... but you just open the door for others to potentially use the same tactics against you and your ilk in future. Good on you to say you're a feminist. But frankly, feminists rank lower than egalitarians in my book. If you have to fight for the cause of a single sex or gender in some misguided idea that it would bring balance to society between men and women, then you don't actually believe in equality which we already by right should have UNDER THE SAME LAWS being applicable to EVERYONE. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Oh yeah. And I’m a feminist. Big time. " Then why is male intelligence worth more than the female? it is Rarer.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Women and children are disproportionately r*ped and murdered by men. R*pists are so rarely convicted we almost might as well legalise r*pe for all the good the law does. Get on board and help solve this horrifying problem, then I’ll have a lot more time for how your feelings were hurt by a hash tag. #metoo Rape convictions are so rarely pressed and successful because the vast majority of victims do themselves no favours by not reporting in the critical first 24 to 48 hours, preserving key biological and physical evidence that could prove instrumental in bringing their rapists to justice under the law with the advancements in forensics today. Don't make it sound as though the law protects rapists or has an unnecessarily high bar for convictions to even be considered. #MeToo is simply a mob movement subjecting people to trial by media and public opinion. Which would sound fine when you're the one doing it to others... but you just open the door for others to potentially use the same tactics against you and your ilk in future. Good on you to say you're a feminist. But frankly, feminists rank lower than egalitarians in my book. If you have to fight for the cause of a single sex or gender in some misguided idea that it would bring balance to society between men and women, then you don't actually believe in equality which we already by right should have UNDER THE SAME LAWS being applicable to EVERYONE. " Uh oh.......taking cover  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Oh yeah. And I’m a feminist. Big time. Then why is male intelligence worth more than the female? it is Rarer.. "Ouch! Deepening the trench, more sandbags!!! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Women and children are disproportionately r*ped and murdered by men. R*pists are so rarely convicted we almost might as well legalise r*pe for all the good the law does. Get on board and help solve this horrifying problem, then I’ll have a lot more time for how your feelings were hurt by a hash tag. #metoo Rape convictions are so rarely pressed and successful because the vast majority of victims do themselves no favours by not reporting in the critical first 24 to 48 hours, preserving key biological and physical evidence that could prove instrumental in bringing their rapists to justice under the law with the advancements in forensics today. Don't make it sound as though the law protects rapists or has an unnecessarily high bar for convictions to even be considered. #MeToo is simply a mob movement subjecting people to trial by media and public opinion. Which would sound fine when you're the one doing it to others... but you just open the door for others to potentially use the same tactics against you and your ilk in future. Good on you to say you're a feminist. But frankly, feminists rank lower than egalitarians in my book. If you have to fight for the cause of a single sex or gender in some misguided idea that it would bring balance to society between men and women, then you don't actually believe in equality which we already by right should have UNDER THE SAME LAWS being applicable to EVERYONE. Uh oh.......taking cover ""Take cover". What for? What I'm saying is my opinion and some parts of it is absolute truth as well if you believe we live in a society governed by the rule of law. And frankly, I'm not about to go and toe the PC line here just so I can still potentially get to score a fuck in future with Fabbers who use the forum on here but would frankly not have compatible personalities and views with myself. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Women and children are disproportionately r*ped and murdered by men. R*pists are so rarely convicted we almost might as well legalise r*pe for all the good the law does. Get on board and help solve this horrifying problem, then I’ll have a lot more time for how your feelings were hurt by a hash tag. #metoo Rape convictions are so rarely pressed and successful because the vast majority of victims do themselves no favours by not reporting in the critical first 24 to 48 hours, preserving key biological and physical evidence that could prove instrumental in bringing their rapists to justice under the law with the advancements in forensics today. Don't make it sound as though the law protects rapists or has an unnecessarily high bar for convictions to even be considered. #MeToo is simply a mob movement subjecting people to trial by media and public opinion. Which would sound fine when you're the one doing it to others... but you just open the door for others to potentially use the same tactics against you and your ilk in future. Good on you to say you're a feminist. But frankly, feminists rank lower than egalitarians in my book. If you have to fight for the cause of a single sex or gender in some misguided idea that it would bring balance to society between men and women, then you don't actually believe in equality which we already by right should have UNDER THE SAME LAWS being applicable to EVERYONE. " Innocent till proven guilty | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Far worse feminists on a dating app I'm on... Here's a copy and paste of my profile from it... The hate mail I received from the feminists in hilarious, so angry they don't get the humour. Personal info I'm just a typical online dater.... I've got three kids... Maybe four with different mothers. Currently on house arrest, although I am honestly innocent... My only two hobbies are drinking and snorting heavily cut drugs... And if after our first date we end up back at your place (highly doubtful) I'll struggle to get hard.... I'm actually joking and can't take this seriously anymore... ?? ... Always thought it's best to be single, why let someone ruin your life when you can do that by yourself ??... I don't sell myself very well. My appearance changes, at times I'm clean shaven = other times I do the facial hair thing. My literature ambitions previously had been limited to Christmas cards, I've exerted myself writing all the above. By the way, my private photos are just facial photographs... Nothing of my other anatomy, sorry to disappoint. I am actually a normal person, tend to prefer animals to people in general too. And to save More questions asking, yes I am bloody English... Ciao Relationship: I'm single Sexuality: I'm straight Appearance: 5' 10'', athletic body, black hair and blue eyes Living: Children: Someday Smoking: Drinking: " This is brilliant. Well done | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I like to think I'm a strong, independent woman but I still like a man to hold doors open or pull a chair out for me. Nothing wrong with a man acting like a gentleman x This . I’m independent, I run my own successful business, I don’t rely on a man but I also cannot stand all this feminist crap. I like a gentleman and I like manners. I like the door being opened for me as long as you slap my arse as I walk through it "Step this way... S L A P ! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand?" I’m sorry but I just have to point out that you spelt feminist wrong . Please don’t shoot me | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? I’m sorry but I just have to point out that you spelt feminist wrong . Please don’t shoot me "Room in my trench should you feel the need | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Women and children are disproportionately r*ped and murdered by men. R*pists are so rarely convicted we almost might as well legalise r*pe for all the good the law does. Get on board and help solve this horrifying problem, then I’ll have a lot more time for how your feelings were hurt by a hash tag. #metoo" Here here | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Oh yeah. And I’m a feminist. Big time. You scare me." Think I may well have fallen in crush with you | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm an old fashioned kind of guy I open doors for ladies ,give them my seat on a bus ,help them carry pram up stairs etc,etc but I do hate it when I'm called condescending for using a term of endearment such as love when I thank a lady for something as I'm being polite ,I don't mind if a lady wants to buy me a drink on a date or go Half's on a meal I welcome equality but sometimes wonder if we are going too far and even if some issues are worth the hassle" It is going to far. I find it ridiculous personally. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"We still have old men shouting filth at girls in school uniform. Many women have felt sexually threatened in their lives. Stamp out this rubbish " And that is wrong obviously. Although in all my time I’ve never heard a man shout filth to a girl in a school uniform. I have however, many a time, heard young girls and middle aged women shout filth to young builders and workmen in the street. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm an old fashioned kind of guy I open doors for ladies ,give them my seat on a bus ,help them carry pram up stairs etc,etc but I do hate it when I'm called condescending for using a term of endearment such as love when I thank a lady for something as I'm being polite ,I don't mind if a lady wants to buy me a drink on a date or go Half's on a meal I welcome equality but sometimes wonder if we are going too far and even if some issues are worth the hassle It is going to far. I find it ridiculous personally. " I can understand those ladies coming forward now because some creepy guy in the past abused them in some way sexually or mentally I say good on them but on other issues such political correctness I think wtf in cases like it's insulting to call a fireman a fireman and not a fire person | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Women and children are disproportionately r*ped and murdered by men. R*pists are so rarely convicted we almost might as well legalise r*pe for all the good the law does. Get on board and help solve this horrifying problem, then I’ll have a lot more time for how your feelings were hurt by a hash tag. #metoo"
"Rape convictions are so rarely pressed and successful because the vast majority of victims do themselves no favours by not reporting in the critical first 24 to 48 hours, preserving key biological and physical evidence that could prove instrumental in bringing their rapists to justice under the law with the advancements in forensics today. " R.pe victims do themselves no favours? Sorry that r.pe is traumatising and that people don't cope well with the after effects and don't have their shit together to report it but it's the r.apist who is 100% at fault here. Not some shitty system, not the traumatised victims, but the perpetrator is. Instead of asking women why it was their fault, and automatically presuming women lie about being r.ped society needs to question why men feel entitled to sex and why women are sexualised to fuck no matter what their circumstances. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand?" Yes I agree things are getting out of hand. I witnessed a guy holding a door open for a woman and she gave him such nasty evil look and snapped at him "I didn't ask for your help . I can manage!". I was gobsmacked by her rudeness. An elderly gentleman owned a door for him and he wife. He let his wife through and then said to me, ladies first. I smiled and thanked him. The way I see it, if a guy wants to act like a gentleman, then what is so wrong with allowing a man to do so? They're being polite! They're extending some manners not trying to insult and undermine women. Guys, never stop being a gent if you choose to do so. There's still alot of us ladies who appreciate a bit of old school mannerisms. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I open doors for old men, women disabled and children. I give up (or did) my seat on the bus for the same group. Politeness is rapidly becoming confused with a myriad of “ism” causes. If a woman opened a door for me would it be sexist? Good manners should be applauded. Not highlighted as rude or otherwise . " I agree, I still perform as a gent because it's good manners, if a woman doesn't want to accept the seat thats fine by me but it won't stop me offering it or holding the door open for man woman or child | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm an old fashioned kind of guy I open doors for ladies ,give them my seat on a bus ,help them carry pram up stairs etc,etc but I do hate it when I'm called condescending for using a term of endearment such as love when I thank a lady for something as I'm being polite ,I don't mind if a lady wants to buy me a drink on a date or go Half's on a meal I welcome equality but sometimes wonder if we are going too far and even if some issues are worth the hassle It is going to far. I find it ridiculous personally. I can understand those ladies coming forward now because some creepy guy in the past abused them in some way sexually or mentally I say good on them but on other issues such political correctness I think wtf in cases like it's insulting to call a fireman a fireman and not a fire person" I agree. I wasn’t really referring to the #metoo as sexual harassment/misconduct/assault is obviously not acceptable in any field. I’m not saying I don’t advocate feminism to a certain extent but as for fireman/policeman etc, that’s what I find too far. Also I totally disagree with banning the walk on ladies at the darts and boxing and closing stripper and lap dancing clubs etc. How is that promoting feminism by putting all these females out of a job which they have chosen to do? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe in equality. I believe women should be paid the same if they are doing the same job. I believe women should be able to walk the streets at night without being told it's their fault for being r*ped if they do. I don't care about man-size tissues, or 'not for girl's' chocolate. I still use those tissues, I still eat that chocolate. If a man wants to give up his seat for me, or hold a door open I'll say thanks with a smile on my face, equally I'll hold the door open for anyone male, female or neither. I think some, not all feminists are focusing on the wrong battles. And by doing so, are going to end up losing the war." | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Yes I agree things are getting out of hand. I witnessed a guy holding a door open for a woman and she gave him such nasty evil look and snapped at him "I didn't ask for your help . I can manage!". I was gobsmacked by her rudeness. An elderly gentleman owned a door for him and he wife. He let his wife through and then said to me, ladies first. I smiled and thanked him. The way I see it, if a guy wants to act like a gentleman, then what is so wrong with allowing a man to do so? They're being polite! They're extending some manners not trying to insult and undermine women. Guys, never stop being a gent if you choose to do so. There's still alot of us ladies who appreciate a bit of old school mannerisms. " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Women and children are disproportionately r*ped and murdered by men. R*pists are so rarely convicted we almost might as well legalise r*pe for all the good the law does. Get on board and help solve this horrifying problem, then I’ll have a lot more time for how your feelings were hurt by a hash tag. #metoo R*pe convictions are so rarely pressed and successful because the vast majority of victims do themselves no favours by not reporting in the critical first 24 to 48 hours, preserving key biological and physical evidence that could prove instrumental in bringing their rapists to justice under the law with the advancements in forensics today. Don't make it sound as though the law protects rapists or has an unnecessarily high bar for convictions to even be considered. #MeToo is simply a mob movement subjecting people to trial by media and public opinion. Which would sound fine when you're the one doing it to others... but you just open the door for others to potentially use the same tactics against you and your ilk in future. Good on you to say you're a feminist. But frankly, feminists rank lower than egalitarians in my book. If you have to fight for the cause of a single sex or gender in some misguided idea that it would bring balance to society between men and women, then you don't actually believe in equality which we already by right should have UNDER THE SAME LAWS being applicable to EVERYONE. " Do you have any statistics on your claim that the reason r*pe trials fail is because the alleged victim did not report it quick enough. These days men accused of r*pe go down the road of claiming sex was consented which is near impossible for the woman to prove otherwise. I think you are focusing to much on these historic sex trials against famous people. I disagree with all this trial by media. If you have an accusation to make you make it to the police not a newspaper. The fact is when a woman does all the right things and reports it, has her body examined and evidence collected the man is advised by his lawyer to claim the sex was consented because it cannot refuted....now its her word against his. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm an old fashioned kind of guy I open doors for ladies ,give them my seat on a bus ,help them carry pram up stairs etc,etc but I do hate it when I'm called condescending for using a term of endearment such as love when I thank a lady for something as I'm being polite ,I don't mind if a lady wants to buy me a drink on a date or go Half's on a meal I welcome equality but sometimes wonder if we are going too far and even if some issues are worth the hassle It is going to far. I find it ridiculous personally. I can understand those ladies coming forward now because some creepy guy in the past abused them in some way sexually or mentally I say good on them but on other issues such political correctness I think wtf in cases like it's insulting to call a fireman a fireman and not a fire person I agree. I wasn’t really referring to the #metoo as sexual harassment/misconduct/assault is obviously not acceptable in any field. I’m not saying I don’t advocate feminism to a certain extent but as for fireman/policeman etc, that’s what I find too far. Also I totally disagree with banning the walk on ladies at the darts and boxing and closing stripper and lap dancing clubs etc. How is that promoting feminism by putting all these females out of a job which they have chosen to do? " I agree if the walk on women feel exploited they wouldn't be doing it ,but those who condone it as putting the feminist movement back a few years have not even bothered to ask them they just condone them and get on their soap boxes,these same people object to beauty pageants as sexost ,but a lot of the ladies in them are bettering themselves financially and educationally in some countries and are independent and strong willed | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is nice to see there are gents out there who still hold the door open for a lady or who would give a seat... If a lady doesn't appreciate those small details is her lost... I was brought up to be an independent woman,and at the same time a man who behaves like a gentleman makes me feel that he values my company and is making an effort... " thank you. but one question. can i leave the toilet seat up? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Women and children are disproportionately r*ped and murdered by men. R*pists are so rarely convicted we almost might as well legalise r*pe for all the good the law does. Get on board and help solve this horrifying problem, then I’ll have a lot more time for how your feelings were hurt by a hash tag. #metoo R*pe convictions are so rarely pressed and successful because the vast majority of victims do themselves no favours by not reporting in the critical first 24 to 48 hours, preserving key biological and physical evidence that could prove instrumental in bringing their rapists to justice under the law with the advancements in forensics today. Don't make it sound as though the law protects rapists or has an unnecessarily high bar for convictions to even be considered. #MeToo is simply a mob movement subjecting people to trial by media and public opinion. Which would sound fine when you're the one doing it to others... but you just open the door for others to potentially use the same tactics against you and your ilk in future. Good on you to say you're a feminist. But frankly, feminists rank lower than egalitarians in my book. If you have to fight for the cause of a single sex or gender in some misguided idea that it would bring balance to society between men and women, then you don't actually believe in equality which we already by right should have UNDER THE SAME LAWS being applicable to EVERYONE. Do you have any statistics on your claim that the reason r*pe trials fail is because the alleged victim did not report it quick enough. These days men accused of r*pe go down the road of claiming sex was consented which is near impossible for the woman to prove otherwise. I think you are focusing to much on these historic sex trials against famous people. I disagree with all this trial by media. If you have an accusation to make you make it to the police not a newspaper. The fact is when a woman does all the right things and reports it, has her body examined and evidence collected the man is advised by his lawyer to claim the sex was consented because it cannot refuted....now its her word against his." I agree the police should investigate ,a judge and jury should decide innocence or guilt and the media should report the outcome ,but sadly the media sensationalises the story before it goes to court making hard to get a totally unbiased jury ,and sometimes a lack of evidence leads to the wrong result ,but I also think people in rxpe cases shouldn't be named until a verdict is confirmed as it's easier to be found innocent than repair your reputation | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"but one question. can i leave the toilet seat up? "You can but, you'll get a load of grief for it! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm an old fashioned kind of guy I open doors for ladies ,give them my seat on a bus ,help them carry pram up stairs etc,etc but I do hate it when I'm called condescending for using a term of endearment such as love when I thank a lady for something as I'm being polite ,I don't mind if a lady wants to buy me a drink on a date or go Half's on a meal I welcome equality but sometimes wonder if we are going too far and even if some issues are worth the hassle" But do you also open doors for men? Would you give your seat up for a man if he looked more in need of it than you? Would you help a man with a pushchair up the stairs? I hope so otherwise it is condescending when you do it for women. I always hold open a door for whoever is not far behind me. Totally rude to shut it in their face. I give up my seat to anyone who looks like they need it more than me. I would offer help to anyone carrying or lifting something they appear to be struggling with. That's just manners and the sex of the two people involved does not come into it....if it did then it would be condescending. I also call people "love" all the time....men and women. Especially elderly men and women, god bless them, I always hope they don't mind as its just my natural way of speaking....but you cannot tell others what they can and cannot be offended by. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm an old fashioned kind of guy I open doors for ladies ,give them my seat on a bus ,help them carry pram up stairs etc,etc but I do hate it when I'm called condescending for using a term of endearment such as love when I thank a lady for something as I'm being polite ,I don't mind if a lady wants to buy me a drink on a date or go Half's on a meal I welcome equality but sometimes wonder if we are going too far and even if some issues are worth the hassle But do you also open doors for men? Would you give your seat up for a man if he looked more in need of it than you? Would you help a man with a pushchair up the stairs? I hope so otherwise it is condescending when you do it for women. I always hold open a door for whoever is not far behind me. Totally rude to shut it in their face. I give up my seat to anyone who looks like they need it more than me. I would offer help to anyone carrying or lifting something they appear to be struggling with. That's just manners and the sex of the two people involved does not come into it....if it did then it would be condescending. I also call people "love" all the time....men and women. Especially elderly men and women, god bless them, I always hope they don't mind as its just my natural way of speaking....but you cannot tell others what they can and cannot be offended by." So you seriously think it’s condescending for a man to help a woman up some stairs with a pushchair? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Women and children are disproportionately r*ped and murdered by men. R*pists are so rarely convicted we almost might as well legalise r*pe for all the good the law does. Get on board and help solve this horrifying problem, then I’ll have a lot more time for how your feelings were hurt by a hash tag. #metoo" No, I'll keep my opinions to myself, My lips are sealed.#bitesHisTongue | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm an old fashioned kind of guy I open doors for ladies ,give them my seat on a bus ,help them carry pram up stairs etc,etc but I do hate it when I'm called condescending for using a term of endearment such as love when I thank a lady for something as I'm being polite ,I don't mind if a lady wants to buy me a drink on a date or go Half's on a meal I welcome equality but sometimes wonder if we are going too far and even if some issues are worth the hassle But do you also open doors for men? Would you give your seat up for a man if he looked more in need of it than you? Would you help a man with a pushchair up the stairs? I hope so otherwise it is condescending when you do it for women. I always hold open a door for whoever is not far behind me. Totally rude to shut it in their face. I give up my seat to anyone who looks like they need it more than me. I would offer help to anyone carrying or lifting something they appear to be struggling with. That's just manners and the sex of the two people involved does not come into it....if it did then it would be condescending. I also call people "love" all the time....men and women. Especially elderly men and women, god bless them, I always hope they don't mind as its just my natural way of speaking....but you cannot tell others what they can and cannot be offended by." yes as a matter of fact I do it's just politness | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Oh I forgot, women still want men to pay for dinner on the first date though. " Not all women do, tbh I'd rather pay for half, that way I don't feel bad if I'm not up fora second date. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is it really that hard to understand the difference between complimenting a woman and harassing her? " What are your thoughts on Wolf Whistling? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is it really that hard to understand the difference between complimenting a woman and harassing her? What are your thoughts on Wolf Whistling?" I ignore them. I'm much to humble to think it might be about me. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is it really that hard to understand the difference between complimenting a woman and harassing her? " It's the same problem basically we have here, you can't please all of the people all of the time | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is it really that hard to understand the difference between complimenting a woman and harassing her? What are your thoughts on Wolf Whistling? I ignore them. I'm much to humble to think it might be about me. " Is it a compliment or is it harassment? Women seem divided on this. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The way I see it, if a guy wants to act like a gentleman, then what is so wrong with allowing a man to do so? They're being polite! They're extending some manners not trying to insult and undermine women. Guys, never stop being a gent if you choose to do so. There's still alot of us ladies who appreciate a bit of old school mannerisms. "I certainly appreciate it | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The way I see it, if a guy wants to act like a gentleman, then what is so wrong with allowing a man to do so? They're being polite! They're extending some manners not trying to insult and undermine women. Guys, never stop being a gent if you choose to do so. There's still alot of us ladies who appreciate a bit of old school mannerisms.
I certainly appreciate it "babs I love that pic | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"But do you also open doors for men? Would you give your seat up for a man if he looked more in need of it than you? Would you help a man with a pushchair up the stairs? I hope so otherwise it is condescending when you do it for women. I always hold open a door for whoever is not far behind me. Totally rude to shut it in their face. I give up my seat to anyone who looks like they need it more than me. I would offer help to anyone carrying or lifting something they appear to be struggling with. That's just manners and the sex of the two people involved does not come into it....if it did then it would be condescending." Spot on. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm an old fashioned kind of guy I open doors for ladies ,give them my seat on a bus ,help them carry pram up stairs etc,etc but I do hate it when I'm called condescending for using a term of endearment such as love when I thank a lady for something as I'm being polite ,I don't mind if a lady wants to buy me a drink on a date or go Half's on a meal I welcome equality but sometimes wonder if we are going too far and even if some issues are worth the hassle It is going to far. I find it ridiculous personally. I can understand those ladies coming forward now because some creepy guy in the past abused them in some way sexually or mentally I say good on them but on other issues such political correctness I think wtf in cases like it's insulting to call a fireman a fireman and not a fire person I agree. I wasn’t really referring to the #metoo as sexual harassment/misconduct/assault is obviously not acceptable in any field. I’m not saying I don’t advocate feminism to a certain extent but as for fireman/policeman etc, that’s what I find too far. Also I totally disagree with banning the walk on ladies at the darts and boxing and closing stripper and lap dancing clubs etc. How is that promoting feminism by putting all these females out of a job which they have chosen to do? I agree if the walk on women feel exploited they wouldn't be doing it ,but those who condone it as putting the feminist movement back a few years have not even bothered to ask them they just condone them and get on their soap boxes,these same people object to beauty pageants as sexost ,but a lot of the ladies in them are bettering themselves financially and educationally in some countries and are independent and strong willed " You don't even know what condone means. 'lol' etc etc. Srs. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is it really that hard to understand the difference between complimenting a woman and harassing her? " I think so | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm an old fashioned kind of guy I open doors for ladies ,give them my seat on a bus ,help them carry pram up stairs etc,etc but I do hate it when I'm called condescending for using a term of endearment such as love when I thank a lady for something as I'm being polite ,I don't mind if a lady wants to buy me a drink on a date or go Half's on a meal I welcome equality but sometimes wonder if we are going too far and even if some issues are worth the hassle But do you also open doors for men? Would you give your seat up for a man if he looked more in need of it than you? Would you help a man with a pushchair up the stairs? I hope so otherwise it is condescending when you do it for women. I always hold open a door for whoever is not far behind me. Totally rude to shut it in their face. I give up my seat to anyone who looks like they need it more than me. I would offer help to anyone carrying or lifting something they appear to be struggling with. That's just manners and the sex of the two people involved does not come into it....if it did then it would be condescending. I also call people "love" all the time....men and women. Especially elderly men and women, god bless them, I always hope they don't mind as its just my natural way of speaking....but you cannot tell others what they can and cannot be offended by. So you seriously think it’s condescending for a man to help a woman up some stairs with a pushchair? " Well obviously since that is what I just said. We both know your not asking me a question. Your just making a statement showing your disagreement..... If he came across a women trying to get upstairs with a pushchair and offered help and later saw a man trying to get upstairs with a pushchair and just carried on by then he would be condescending. That is my personal opinion. It implies a woman is weak and feeble and a man strong and capable based on nothing else but the sex of the two people. If your offer of help is only based on sex and gender then I think your condescending. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe in equality. I believe women should be paid the same if they are doing the same job. I believe women should be able to walk the streets at night without being told it's their fault for being r*ped if they do. I don't care about man-size tissues, or 'not for girl's' chocolate. I still use those tissues, I still eat that chocolate. If a man wants to give up his seat for me, or hold a door open I'll say thanks with a smile on my face, equally I'll hold the door open for anyone male, female or neither. I think some, not all feminists are focusing on the wrong battles. And by doing so, are going to end up losing the war." Couldn't have said it better myself | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Far worse feminists on a dating app I'm on... Here's a copy and paste of my profile from it... The hate mail I received from the feminists in hilarious, so angry they don't get the humour. Personal info I'm just a typical online dater.... I've got three kids... Maybe four with different mothers. Currently on house arrest, although I am honestly innocent... My only two hobbies are drinking and snorting heavily cut drugs... And if after our first date we end up back at your place (highly doubtful) I'll struggle to get hard.... Love it!! I'm actually joking and can't take this seriously anymore... ?? ... Always thought it's best to be single, why let someone ruin your life when you can do that by yourself ??... I don't sell myself very well. My appearance changes, at times I'm clean shaven = other times I do the facial hair thing. My literature ambitions previously had been limited to Christmas cards, I've exerted myself writing all the above. By the way, my private photos are just facial photographs... Nothing of my other anatomy, sorry to disappoint. I am actually a normal person, tend to prefer animals to people in general too. And to save More questions asking, yes I am bloody English... Ciao Relationship: I'm single Sexuality: I'm straight Appearance: 5' 10'', athletic body, black hair and blue eyes Living: Children: Someday Smoking: Drinking: " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Is it a compliment or is it harassment? Women seem divided on this." When you are out and about and you hear a wolf whistle, does your eye: a) seek out the source of the noise while your brain thinks "dickhead" b) seek out the object of his desire and measure his value by how stiff your own dick gets | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm an old fashioned kind of guy I open doors for ladies ,give them my seat on a bus ,help them carry pram up stairs etc,etc but I do hate it when I'm called condescending for using a term of endearment such as love when I thank a lady for something as I'm being polite ,I don't mind if a lady wants to buy me a drink on a date or go Half's on a meal I welcome equality but sometimes wonder if we are going too far and even if some issues are worth the hassle But do you also open doors for men? Would you give your seat up for a man if he looked more in need of it than you? Would you help a man with a pushchair up the stairs? I hope so otherwise it is condescending when you do it for women. I always hold open a door for whoever is not far behind me. Totally rude to shut it in their face. I give up my seat to anyone who looks like they need it more than me. I would offer help to anyone carrying or lifting something they appear to be struggling with. That's just manners and the sex of the two people involved does not come into it....if it did then it would be condescending. I also call people "love" all the time....men and women. Especially elderly men and women, god bless them, I always hope they don't mind as its just my natural way of speaking....but you cannot tell others what they can and cannot be offended by. So you seriously think it’s condescending for a man to help a woman up some stairs with a pushchair? Well obviously since that is what I just said. We both know your not asking me a question. Your just making a statement showing your disagreement..... If he came across a women trying to get upstairs with a pushchair and offered help and later saw a man trying to get upstairs with a pushchair and just carried on by then he would be condescending. That is my personal opinion. It implies a woman is weak and feeble and a man strong and capable based on nothing else but the sex of the two people. If your offer of help is only based on sex and gender then I think your condescending." Hey i would help anyone I saw struggling but especially a woman because a mothers job is never done and a little help would for most mothers be appreciated and is when I'm around | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm an old fashioned kind of guy I open doors for ladies ,give them my seat on a bus ,help them carry pram up stairs etc,etc but I do hate it when I'm called condescending for using a term of endearment such as love when I thank a lady for something as I'm being polite ,I don't mind if a lady wants to buy me a drink on a date or go Half's on a meal I welcome equality but sometimes wonder if we are going too far and even if some issues are worth the hassle But do you also open doors for men? Would you give your seat up for a man if he looked more in need of it than you? Would you help a man with a pushchair up the stairs? I hope so otherwise it is condescending when you do it for women. I always hold open a door for whoever is not far behind me. Totally rude to shut it in their face. I give up my seat to anyone who looks like they need it more than me. I would offer help to anyone carrying or lifting something they appear to be struggling with. That's just manners and the sex of the two people involved does not come into it....if it did then it would be condescending. I also call people "love" all the time....men and women. Especially elderly men and women, god bless them, I always hope they don't mind as its just my natural way of speaking....but you cannot tell others what they can and cannot be offended by. So you seriously think it’s condescending for a man to help a woman up some stairs with a pushchair? Well obviously since that is what I just said. We both know your not asking me a question. Your just making a statement showing your disagreement..... If he came across a women trying to get upstairs with a pushchair and offered help and later saw a man trying to get upstairs with a pushchair and just carried on by then he would be condescending. That is my personal opinion. It implies a woman is weak and feeble and a man strong and capable based on nothing else but the sex of the two people. If your offer of help is only based on sex and gender then I think your condescending." Not a statement just a question. I guess I just can’t believe the way some people think. I’d make a statement showing my disagreement if that’s what i intended to do. Yes I do totally disagree with your thoughts not that it matters. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Is it really that hard to understand the difference between complimenting a woman and harassing her? What are your thoughts on Wolf Whistling? I ignore them. I'm much to humble to think it might be about me. Is it a compliment or is it harassment? Women seem divided on this." It's just unnecessary | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm an old fashioned kind of guy I open doors for ladies ,give them my seat on a bus ,help them carry pram up stairs etc,etc but I do hate it when I'm called condescending for using a term of endearment such as love when I thank a lady for something as I'm being polite ,I don't mind if a lady wants to buy me a drink on a date or go Half's on a meal I welcome equality but sometimes wonder if we are going too far and even if some issues are worth the hassle" Difficult one, calling everyone, woman, man, cat, sheep, dog, 'love' is endemic around these parts. Mostly regarded as non-p.c.now though; many Councils and NHS regions tell staff it is unacceptable language. I've never associated it with gender inequality unless it has been accompanied by leering or said in a sleazy tone, in which event I challenge it. Maybe we need a counter claim for the right to protect our cultural irregularity! All right, love? Mrs | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Women and children are disproportionately r*ped and murdered by men. R*pists are so rarely convicted we almost might as well legalise r*pe for all the good the law does. Get on board and help solve this horrifying problem, then I’ll have a lot more time for how your feelings were hurt by a hash tag. #metoo R*pe convictions are so rarely pressed and successful because the vast majority of victims do themselves no favours by not reporting in the critical first 24 to 48 hours, preserving key biological and physical evidence that could prove instrumental in bringing their rapists to justice under the law with the advancements in forensics today. Don't make it sound as though the law protects rapists or has an unnecessarily high bar for convictions to even be considered. #MeToo is simply a mob movement subjecting people to trial by media and public opinion. Which would sound fine when you're the one doing it to others... but you just open the door for others to potentially use the same tactics against you and your ilk in future. Good on you to say you're a feminist. But frankly, feminists rank lower than egalitarians in my book. If you have to fight for the cause of a single sex or gender in some misguided idea that it would bring balance to society between men and women, then you don't actually believe in equality which we already by right should have UNDER THE SAME LAWS being applicable to EVERYONE. Do you have any statistics on your claim that the reason r*pe trials fail is because the alleged victim did not report it quick enough. These days men accused of r*pe go down the road of claiming sex was consented which is near impossible for the woman to prove otherwise. I think you are focusing to much on these historic sex trials against famous people. I disagree with all this trial by media. If you have an accusation to make you make it to the police not a newspaper. The fact is when a woman does all the right things and reports it, has her body examined and evidence collected the man is advised by his lawyer to claim the sex was consented because it cannot refuted....now its her word against his." And yet men do get convicted on her word. Ched Evans and Mike Tyson being a prime examples. Even when the case is overturned, the sheep will still say it was his fault for... having sex with her. Then you have people that apparently wait 36 years to report cases and can't even tell you when it happened or where and expect a guys career to be sabotaged on such 'evidence'  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"In answer to the OP, I (M) too think that women in general have gone through a slight change at the moment and seem to me, at least, sometimes now to be looking for a slight or a perceived threat. I've lived a fair few years now and have always got along very well with women, and actually generally better than men. I've had women friends, lovers, teachers, students, employees, colleagues, bosses and have always treated them as I treat men - as equals without fear or favour. However something is in the air at the moment which is different - sometimes feels like walking on eggshells. It's a good thing that #metoo / #everydatsexism etc has highlighted this stuff - some of which opened my eyes, as I didn't realise some of this was so widespread. However, as someone said above, over-reactions and sensationalism will not help. I recall a piece a few months back about a film star who was called out as some kind of a monster after a date with a fan who threw herself at him, and willingly went to his apartment after a dinner. They started to get amorous. She willingly undressed, she described sitting on his kitchen counter while he gave her oral; but in the end didn't like his style (he was clumsy). However he stopped when asked to stop, he called her a taxi and then enquired after her the next day to ask her how she was and to say he hoped he hadn't offended her. Nothing else happened, no complaint made, no charges brought. Yet the "victim" contacted a a sensationalist young reporter who wrote a puff piece and "outed" him. There was nothing in it. It was a bad date - and we've all had those. Discussions like this will help - if kept on topic and civilised. After all, what we are all after surely is more understanding and tolerance, so it should be a subject which can be brought up without fear of being shouted down." being a gent and being mannerable are not about dehumanising or degrading a woman though are they? The example you gave of a well known guy taking a woman into his home and giving her less than perfect oral sex was about everyday life, the fact that the media guy sensationalised it was irrelevant to the incident involving the guy and woman, the reporter was an opportunist the famous guy was a gent and did the right thing by her | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Man-sized tissues? Sales are down, company finds some comments about gender online, announce decision to change name from "mansized", guaranteed sheet loads of publicity for free while media and online commentators whip themselves into a frenzy. " This. Also, a lot of these new neutral-gender terms and changes are things companies are coming up with on their own, either as a panicked and misjudged response to the current social climate or in search of media coverage...it's not like women have secret meetings deciding which brand to target next. Or maybe we do... (Mr Muscle is next in the firing line) | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Oh I forgot, women still want men to pay for dinner on the first date though. " I certainly don’t and never will. I’m far too independent for that. Maybe if we dated a bit more would I let them pay but not a first date. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Yes I agree things are getting out of hand. I witnessed a guy holding a door open for a woman and she gave him such nasty evil look and snapped at him "I didn't ask for your help . I can manage!". I was gobsmacked by her rudeness. An elderly gentleman owned a door for him and he wife. He let his wife through and then said to me, ladies first. I smiled and thanked him. The way I see it, if a guy wants to act like a gentleman, then what is so wrong with allowing a man to do so? They're being polite! They're extending some manners not trying to insult and undermine women. Guys, never stop being a gent if you choose to do so. There's still alot of us ladies who appreciate a bit of old school mannerisms. "Think is I kind of have. I saw a woman struggling to open her petrol cap before, it was either a new car or it wasn't hers as she stopped to check what side the cap was before pulling into the pump. Anyway, I didn't get out and show her how to open the cap or explain that there's a little arrow which shows the side of the cap for fear of 'mansplaining' things. Which men get hammered for these days. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Yes I agree things are getting out of hand. I witnessed a guy holding a door open for a woman and she gave him such nasty evil look and snapped at him "I didn't ask for your help . I can manage!". I was gobsmacked by her rudeness. An elderly gentleman owned a door for him and he wife. He let his wife through and then said to me, ladies first. I smiled and thanked him. The way I see it, if a guy wants to act like a gentleman, then what is so wrong with allowing a man to do so? They're being polite! They're extending some manners not trying to insult and undermine women. Guys, never stop being a gent if you choose to do so. There's still alot of us ladies who appreciate a bit of old school mannerisms.
Think is I kind of have. I saw a woman struggling to open her petrol cap before, it was either a new car or it wasn't hers as she stopped to check what side the cap was before pulling into the pump.
Anyway, I didn't get out and show her how to open the cap or explain that there's a little arrow which shows the side of the cap for fear of 'mansplaining' things. Which men get hammered for these days. "God man is this what the world is coming to, I wouldn't hesitate to help or explain if she didn't want that help mind I would walk away but for me being a gent is not putting a woman or for that matter anyone who needs help down, it's helping and being mannerable | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 na na na na nah! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Oh I forgot, women still want men to pay for dinner on the first date though. I certainly don’t and never will. I’m far too independent for that. Maybe if we dated a bit more would I let them pay but not a first date. " I agree that's how it should be done. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Oh I forgot, women still want men to pay for dinner on the first date though. I certainly don’t and never will. I’m far too independent for that. Maybe if we dated a bit more would I let them pay but not a first date. I agree that's how it should be done. "Nope im too independant for that, i will go 50/50 on a first date. That way it shows I'm not expecting anything from him and he doesn't have go expect anything from me. I agree the same as above after a few dates then we can take it in turns to pay for the meals. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand?" Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"In answer to the OP, I (M) too think that women in general have gone through a slight change at the moment and seem to me, at least, sometimes now to be looking for a slight or a perceived threat. I've lived a fair few years now and have always got along very well with women, and actually generally better than men. I've had women friends, lovers, teachers, students, employees, colleagues, bosses and have always treated them as I treat men - as equals without fear or favour. However something is in the air at the moment which is different - sometimes feels like walking on eggshells. It's a good thing that #metoo / #everydatsexism etc has highlighted this stuff - some of which opened my eyes, as I didn't realise some of this was so widespread. However, as someone said above, over-reactions and sensationalism will not help. I recall a piece a few months back about a film star who was called out as some kind of a monster after a date with a fan who threw herself at him, and willingly went to his apartment after a dinner. They started to get amorous. She willingly undressed, she described sitting on his kitchen counter while he gave her oral; but in the end didn't like his style (he was clumsy). However he stopped when asked to stop, he called her a taxi and then enquired after her the next day to ask her how she was and to say he hoped he hadn't offended her. Nothing else happened, no complaint made, no charges brought. Yet the "victim" contacted a a sensationalist young reporter who wrote a puff piece and "outed" him. There was nothing in it. It was a bad date - and we've all had those. Discussions like this will help - if kept on topic and civilised. After all, what we are all after surely is more understanding and tolerance, so it should be a subject which can be brought up without fear of being shouted down.being a gent and being mannerable are not about dehumanising or degrading a woman though are they? The example you gave of a well known guy taking a woman into his home and giving her less than perfect oral sex was about everyday life, the fact that the media guy sensationalised it was irrelevant to the incident involving the guy and woman, the reporter was an opportunist the famous guy was a gent and did the right thing by her " The thing is that the “media guy” was actually a “early 20 something media woman” who clearly thought she was on to the story which would launch her career. It was sensationalist drivel and wasn’t even well-written. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"In answer to the OP, I (M) too think that women in general have gone through a slight change at the moment and seem to me, at least, sometimes now to be looking for a slight or a perceived threat. I've lived a fair few years now and have always got along very well with women, and actually generally better than men. I've had women friends, lovers, teachers, students, employees, colleagues, bosses and have always treated them as I treat men - as equals without fear or favour. However something is in the air at the moment which is different - sometimes feels like walking on eggshells. It's a good thing that #metoo / #everydatsexism etc has highlighted this stuff - some of which opened my eyes, as I didn't realise some of this was so widespread. However, as someone said above, over-reactions and sensationalism will not help. I recall a piece a few months back about a film star who was called out as some kind of a monster after a date with a fan who threw herself at him, and willingly went to his apartment after a dinner. They started to get amorous. She willingly undressed, she described sitting on his kitchen counter while he gave her oral; but in the end didn't like his style (he was clumsy). However he stopped when asked to stop, he called her a taxi and then enquired after her the next day to ask her how she was and to say he hoped he hadn't offended her. Nothing else happened, no complaint made, no charges brought. Yet the "victim" contacted a a sensationalist young reporter who wrote a puff piece and "outed" him. There was nothing in it. It was a bad date - and we've all had those. Discussions like this will help - if kept on topic and civilised. After all, what we are all after surely is more understanding and tolerance, so it should be a subject which can be brought up without fear of being shouted down.being a gent and being mannerable are not about dehumanising or degrading a woman though are they? The example you gave of a well known guy taking a woman into his home and giving her less than perfect oral sex was about everyday life, the fact that the media guy sensationalised it was irrelevant to the incident involving the guy and woman, the reporter was an opportunist the famous guy was a gent and did the right thing by her The thing is that the “media guy” was actually a “early 20 something media woman” who clearly thought she was on to the story which would launch her career. It was sensationalist drivel and wasn’t even well-written. " Well their ya go then, I think that was all about ' celebrity ' rather than woman being abused by man and I agree with the person above who mentioned the very verbal feminist minority doing their bit for feminism, in my experience most women appreciate a gent so I for one will continue unabated | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand?" No! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere." Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I like to think I'm a strong, independent woman but I still like a man to hold doors open or pull a chair out for me. Nothing wrong with a man acting like a gentleman x" I agree with this | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I like to think I'm a strong, independent woman but I still like a man to hold doors open or pull a chair out for me. Nothing wrong with a man acting like a gentleman x I agree with this" and I agree with you agreeing with them | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Oh I forgot, women still want men to pay for dinner on the first date though. I certainly don’t and never will. I’m far too independent for that. Maybe if we dated a bit more would I let them pay but not a first date. I agree that's how it should be done.
Nope im too independant for that, i will go 50/50 on a first date. That way it shows I'm not expecting anything from him and he doesn't have go expect anything from me.
I agree the same as above after a few dates then we can take it in turns to pay for the meals. " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. " Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I like to think I'm a strong, independent woman but I still like a man to hold doors open or pull a chair out for me. Nothing wrong with a man acting like a gentleman x" Out of interest, what do you think is desirable about being "independent"? It just strikes me as a word that only women refer to themselves or each other by. You never heard of a man priding himself on being "strong and independent". I do understand why being entirely dependent on another person is undesirable. But i don't see anything desirable about being entirely independent either. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Imagine how much more progressive, equal, and modern large swathes of the world would be now if the Empire still existed but we also had the same advancements in social mores and law liberalisation that exist in modern-day Britain. " Hmm I did try to imagine that but sadly it was let down by all the social iniquity that the empire exported. E.g. homosexuality is illegal in much of the ex-empire because of good old victorian values. Much of the modern liberalism in the UK owes it's existence to the counter-culture of the 60 although even then the government wouldn't back a bill decriminalisating homosexuality and it had to be done with some clever political maneuvering by the chap behind it. Eventually we had the PC movement of the 80s and 90s which socially ostracised casual public homophobia while being attacked as suppressing free speech. I believe that it was because of PC that homosexuality became less stigmatised and that without it most gay men would still be concealing their orientation even if they no longer went to prison for it. Likewise women have had the shitty end of the stick for a couple of millennium and it will take a lot of time and effort to remove the imprint of that from our society. While some people go overboard in favour of women by far the worst agitators seem to me to be the middle aged white men pushing back against the advances feminism has won for women. Particularly some of the 'red pill' pillocks, reactionaries the lot of them. To be fair I'm not sure that people really have enough free will to choose whether they are a liberal or a reactionary but it dosen't stop the latter holding up the development of civil society (amongst other very fine things). So sorry guys, there still a way to go before women really are treated equally to men and the transition period may well contain moments of excess in favour of women but the alternative is to accept that women will never be treated as equals by men. I'm taking about as a society, your personal experience is a teeny, tiny part of it and anyway is probably virtue signaling. I hold doors open for everyone and so far I don't recall anyone complaining about it. Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. " If you don't want kids then they have their advantages. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Out of interest, what do you think is desirable about being "independent"? It just strikes me as a word that only women refer to themselves or each other by. You never heard of a man priding himself on being "strong and independent". I do understand why being entirely dependent on another person is undesirable. But i don't see anything desirable about being entirely independent either. " Imagine being dependant on someone else, like a child. It wasn't that long ago that a wife was the property of her husband in the uk and within a generation that a married woman was taxed as though she was, I think they got separate taxation in the 60s. Men have been independent for all time so never have to lay claim to it. Because you've never experienced being treated as a woman for a significant part of your life (I imagine) is hard to empathise with what it is to be one. We just have to accept that their explication if it is accurate. It's very similar to whether white people can understand what it's like to be black. To be honest I don't think that they can. I'm white by the way. Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. " I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Out of interest, what do you think is desirable about being "independent"? It just strikes me as a word that only women refer to themselves or each other by. You never heard of a man priding himself on being "strong and independent". I do understand why being entirely dependent on another person is undesirable. But i don't see anything desirable about being entirely independent either. Imagine being dependant on someone else, like a child. It wasn't that long ago that a wife was the property of her husband in the uk and within a generation that a married woman was taxed as though she was, I think they got separate taxation in the 60s. Men have been independent for all time so never have to lay claim to it. Because you've never experienced being treated as a woman for a significant part of your life (I imagine) is hard to empathise with what it is to be one. We just have to accept that their explication if it is accurate. It's very similar to whether white people can understand what it's like to be black. To be honest I don't think that they can. I'm white by the way. Mike xx" I'm sorry but that explanation has no relevance either that's about unscrupulous men using a woman, a gent and they've existed since the beginning of time wouldn’t use his partner as a slave and taxation is a government thing not an individual thing | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. " but that would be 'toxic masculinity' | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Out of interest, what do you think is desirable about being "independent"? It just strikes me as a word that only women refer to themselves or each other by. You never heard of a man priding himself on being "strong and independent". I do understand why being entirely dependent on another person is undesirable. But i don't see anything desirable about being entirely independent either. Imagine being dependant on someone else, like a child. It wasn't that long ago that a wife was the property of her husband in the uk and within a generation that a married woman was taxed as though she was, I think they got separate taxation in the 60s. Men have been independent for all time so never have to lay claim to it. Because you've never experienced being treated as a woman for a significant part of your life (I imagine) is hard to empathise with what it is to be one. We just have to accept that their explication if it is accurate. It's very similar to whether white people can understand what it's like to be black. To be honest I don't think that they can. I'm white by the way. Mike xx" Two problems with that. Wives have never been property and it's intellectually dishonest to describe them as such. Secondly, I don't need to live as a woman to get a priori knowledge of it. Using your logic, women could also never have a posteriori knowledge to prove that living as a man was easier either. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. " Furthermore, the Chinese government is chucking soyboys off TV and cracking down on their corruption of the youth. A very popular move I'll add. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. but that would be 'toxic masculinity' " there's no such thing as toxic masculinity. And anyone who disagrees, fight me. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. but that would be 'toxic masculinity'
there's no such thing as toxic masculinity. And anyone who disagrees, fight me. " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Seriously guys, we’ve had it our own way for thousands of years, a little bit of equality can’t be that hard to take... " succinctly put!
Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. " Thanks but I prefer things equal. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. " If you prefer things equal then you would not be using a term that is explicitly used to describe men in an inferior and infantilising manner. Unless of course you admit you're a wallflower of a girl that can't handle actual men being men. And no, not talking about gym freaks with roid rage or straight up lads with no manners either. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. " Equal what? Equal outcomes or equal opportunities? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. If you prefer things equal then you would not be using a term that is explicitly used to describe men in an inferior and infantilising manner. Unless of course you admit you're a wallflower of a girl that can't handle actual men being men. And no, not talking about gym freaks with roid rage or straight up lads with no manners either. " I’m more dominant than submissive so certainly no wallflower and my ‘soybean’ comment was actually a sarcastic one. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. Equal what? Equal outcomes or equal opportunities? " Probably equal standards. The woman in question here says she'd have a soyboy beta male any day. Let's guess what kind of standards does she hold herself to that she's still stuck in this stage whereby the sort of guy she finds desirable is the kind one would best describe as effeminate to camp levels and entirely lacking a spine? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. If you prefer things equal then you would not be using a term that is explicitly used to describe men in an inferior and infantilising manner. Unless of course you admit you're a wallflower of a girl that can't handle actual men being men. And no, not talking about gym freaks with roid rage or straight up lads with no manners either. I’m more dominant than submissive so certainly no wallflower and my ‘soybean’ comment was actually a sarcastic one. " Ah of course. A dominant woman wants a submissive man. Show me where in that description is anything equal, be it image or power balance. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. Equal what? Equal outcomes or equal opportunities? Probably equal standards. The woman in question here says she'd have a soyboy beta male any day. Let's guess what kind of standards does she hold herself to that she's still stuck in this stage whereby the sort of guy she finds desirable is the kind one would best describe as effeminate to camp levels and entirely lacking a spine? " Oh so you know me now do you? Yes, I’ve always gone for the metrosexual type of guy, I’m not into the overly masculine type. I make no apologies for the type of guy I’m attracted to. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Two problems with that. Wives have never been property and it's intellectually dishonest to describe them as such. Secondly, I don't need to live as a woman to get a priori knowledge of it. Using your logic, women could also never have a posteriori knowledge to prove that living as a man was easier either. " You might be right about the property thing, I'll have to check, but the tax system certainly treated them as though they were. You're correct, a woman is in no better position to empathise with what it's like to be a man than vise versa but I strongly suspect that it's easy to spot when you're being treated as a 2nd class citizen and quite easy to over look it when it's being done to other people. So it might be that men are now being 'oppressed' by all those dominant women and the women haven't noticed but I'd like to see good data to support that.... Also don't forget that we live in a society that was until recently very patriarchal and our minds have been shaped by that. That's why do many jobs end with 'man' and that environment will have shaped our thinking. In that sense we're prisoners of the past and it's very hard to see how we are biased from within, most of us do need to be told by an extremal agent. We just have to take it on degree of trust. Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. If you prefer things equal then you would not be using a term that is explicitly used to describe men in an inferior and infantilising manner. Unless of course you admit you're a wallflower of a girl that can't handle actual men being men. And no, not talking about gym freaks with roid rage or straight up lads with no manners either. I’m more dominant than submissive so certainly no wallflower and my ‘soybean’ comment was actually a sarcastic one. Ah of course. A dominant woman wants a submissive man. Show me where in that description is anything equal, be it image or power balance. " I was talking sexually and I’m more switch to be honest. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. Equal what? Equal outcomes or equal opportunities? Probably equal standards. The woman in question here says she'd have a soyboy beta male any day. Let's guess what kind of standards does she hold herself to that she's still stuck in this stage whereby the sort of guy she finds desirable is the kind one would best describe as effeminate to camp levels and entirely lacking a spine? Oh so you know me now do you? Yes, I’ve always gone for the metrosexual type of guy, I’m not into the overly masculine type. I make no apologies for the type of guy I’m attracted to. " I don't think you actually know what that word "metrosexual" means. And I think if you looked it up, the definition of a metrosexual is very different from a soyboy beta male in your words. I'd say I'm a metrosexual if I could be bothered with labels. But this is one metrosexual who would be extremely put off by women with your attitude and usage of words. My opinion. I'm sure you won't have a shortage of submissive soyboy beta men kneeling before you offering to worship you like a goddess! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Two problems with that. Wives have never been property and it's intellectually dishonest to describe them as such. Secondly, I don't need to live as a woman to get a priori knowledge of it. Using your logic, women could also never have a posteriori knowledge to prove that living as a man was easier either. " See Coverture, from Wikipedia: "....woman's legal rights and obligations were subsumed by those of her husband, in accordance with the wife's legal status of feme covert. An unmarried woman, a feme sole, had the right to own property and make contracts in her own name. Coverture arises from the legal fiction that a husband and wife are one person." Maybe not property but they had no legal independence from their husband. Probably similar in effect to the way wives are treated in Saudi. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. Equal what? Equal outcomes or equal opportunities? Probably equal standards. The woman in question here says she'd have a soyboy beta male any day. Let's guess what kind of standards does she hold herself to that she's still stuck in this stage whereby the sort of guy she finds desirable is the kind one would best describe as effeminate to camp levels and entirely lacking a spine? Oh so you know me now do you? Yes, I’ve always gone for the metrosexual type of guy, I’m not into the overly masculine type. I make no apologies for the type of guy I’m attracted to. I don't think you actually know what that word "metrosexual" means. And I think if you looked it up, the definition of a metrosexual is very different from a soyboy beta male in your words. I'd say I'm a metrosexual if I could be bothered with labels. But this is one metrosexual who would be extremely put off by women with your attitude and usage of words. My opinion. I'm sure you won't have a shortage of submissive soyboy beta men kneeling before you offering to worship you like a goddess! " I made a joke of the ‘soybean’ comment a previous poster used. You are now taking it as a serious one. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. Equal what? Equal outcomes or equal opportunities? Probably equal standards. The woman in question here says she'd have a soyboy beta male any day. Let's guess what kind of standards does she hold herself to that she's still stuck in this stage whereby the sort of guy she finds desirable is the kind one would best describe as effeminate to camp levels and entirely lacking a spine? Oh so you know me now do you? Yes, I’ve always gone for the metrosexual type of guy, I’m not into the overly masculine type. I make no apologies for the type of guy I’m attracted to. I don't think you actually know what that word "metrosexual" means. And I think if you looked it up, the definition of a metrosexual is very different from a soyboy beta male in your words. I'd say I'm a metrosexual if I could be bothered with labels. But this is one metrosexual who would be extremely put off by women with your attitude and usage of words. My opinion. I'm sure you won't have a shortage of submissive soyboy beta men kneeling before you offering to worship you like a goddess! I made a joke of the ‘soybean’ comment a previous poster used. You are now taking it as a serious one. " Ever heard of the time when a joke is in poor taste and comes off entirely unlike a joke? Don't quit your day job for comedy. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Feminists.... Have they moved on from having a bigger tash than my Nan ?" No, mine is definitely bigger | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. Equal what? Equal outcomes or equal opportunities? Probably equal standards. The woman in question here says she'd have a soyboy beta male any day. Let's guess what kind of standards does she hold herself to that she's still stuck in this stage whereby the sort of guy she finds desirable is the kind one would best describe as effeminate to camp levels and entirely lacking a spine? Oh so you know me now do you? Yes, I’ve always gone for the metrosexual type of guy, I’m not into the overly masculine type. I make no apologies for the type of guy I’m attracted to. I don't think you actually know what that word "metrosexual" means. And I think if you looked it up, the definition of a metrosexual is very different from a soyboy beta male in your words. I'd say I'm a metrosexual if I could be bothered with labels. But this is one metrosexual who would be extremely put off by women with your attitude and usage of words. My opinion. I'm sure you won't have a shortage of submissive soyboy beta men kneeling before you offering to worship you like a goddess! I made a joke of the ‘soybean’ comment a previous poster used. You are now taking it as a serious one. Ever heard of the time when a joke is in poor taste and comes off entirely unlike a joke? Don't quit your day job for comedy. " Arrogant much? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. Equal what? Equal outcomes or equal opportunities? Probably equal standards. The woman in question here says she'd have a soyboy beta male any day. Let's guess what kind of standards does she hold herself to that she's still stuck in this stage whereby the sort of guy she finds desirable is the kind one would best describe as effeminate to camp levels and entirely lacking a spine? Oh so you know me now do you? Yes, I’ve always gone for the metrosexual type of guy, I’m not into the overly masculine type. I make no apologies for the type of guy I’m attracted to. I don't think you actually know what that word "metrosexual" means. And I think if you looked it up, the definition of a metrosexual is very different from a soyboy beta male in your words. I'd say I'm a metrosexual if I could be bothered with labels. But this is one metrosexual who would be extremely put off by women with your attitude and usage of words. My opinion. I'm sure you won't have a shortage of submissive soyboy beta men kneeling before you offering to worship you like a goddess! I made a joke of the ‘soybean’ comment a previous poster used. You are now taking it as a serious one. Ever heard of the time when a joke is in poor taste and comes off entirely unlike a joke? Don't quit your day job for comedy. " I don’t see you giving the original user of the term grief. I was just saying that I would rather have a beta type guy over an arrogant alpha one anyday. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Two problems with that. Wives have never been property and it's intellectually dishonest to describe them as such. Secondly, I don't need to live as a woman to get a priori knowledge of it. Using your logic, women could also never have a posteriori knowledge to prove that living as a man was easier either. See Coverture, from Wikipedia: "....woman's legal rights and obligations were subsumed by those of her husband, in accordance with the wife's legal status of feme covert. An unmarried woman, a feme sole, had the right to own property and make contracts in her own name. Coverture arises from the legal fiction that a husband and wife are one person." Maybe not property but they had no legal independence from their husband. Probably similar in effect to the way wives are treated in Saudi." Yeah sounds just like Sharia law | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok... firstly, adamant femenists or women who just love to argue, best leave the room now. I've always got on with women, always preferred working with them, some of my best managers ever have been women, I was raised by two, no father..but lately, I'm really finding it hard to "get on" with women in general except the ones I know, the whole #metoo (which at times is very serious) and ridiculous equality examples (mansize tissues??) Is putting me off risking upsetting anyone. It's starting to become a male Vs female scenario, I understand, there's areas where equality needs work..but all the media is convincing me women don't actually want anything from men, the nice parts of history like opening doors, offering a seat etc all get scowled at now. Women and femininity have always been strong themes in my life that I've admired and lusted after, but lately, I just feel there'll always be a snide comment. Do any women feel things are getting a little out of hand? Surveys have shown that only a minor percentage of women in the UK actually identify themselves as feminists. This third wave of feminism that see the patriarchy in everything is a small, but very vocal minority. I've found that most women want men to be "manly" so long as they're treated with respect and consideration. The way I engage with women won't change just because a vocal minority sees signs of oppression everywhere. Maybe because normal women look at a group of primarily unattractive, angry, single feminists and think - hmmm that's not the future I want. At best, those feminists have soyboy beta males for partners, the biggest group of grapists going. Give me a soybean beta male anyday. Sounds like my perfect guy. I just threw up a little in my mouth. Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. Thanks but I prefer things equal. Equal what? Equal outcomes or equal opportunities? Probably equal standards. The woman in question here says she'd have a soyboy beta male any day. Let's guess what kind of standards does she hold herself to that she's still stuck in this stage whereby the sort of guy she finds desirable is the kind one would best describe as effeminate to camp levels and entirely lacking a spine? Oh so you know me now do you? Yes, I’ve always gone for the metrosexual type of guy, I’m not into the overly masculine type. I make no apologies for the type of guy I’m attracted to. I don't think you actually know what that word "metrosexual" means. And I think if you looked it up, the definition of a metrosexual is very different from a soyboy beta male in your words. I'd say I'm a metrosexual if I could be bothered with labels. But this is one metrosexual who would be extremely put off by women with your attitude and usage of words. My opinion. I'm sure you won't have a shortage of submissive soyboy beta men kneeling before you offering to worship you like a goddess! I made a joke of the ‘soybean’ comment a previous poster used. You are now taking it as a serious one. Ever heard of the time when a joke is in poor taste and comes off entirely unlike a joke? Don't quit your day job for comedy. Arrogant much? " How's what I said arrogant? I'm just calling you out for the words and the ill taste joke you said there. You were the one who didn't know what you were actually saying, or if you did you clearly failed to get it across. Then you dig yourself a deeper hole with every reply you make and somehow claim you like your guys equal but somehow meaning it only in a sexual sense, whilst claiming your liking for being a dominant woman over men who by that arrangement would have to be submissive to you. Show me where's the arrogance? Or did I prick holes in your argument and words to the point that you want to resort to ad hominem attacks on me? I rest my case. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Furthermore, the Chinese government is chucking soyboys off TV and cracking down on their corruption of the youth. A very popular move I'll add. " Popular need not equal good! Indeed in my contrarian way I rather fear the popular *sighs* Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Out of interest, what do you think is desirable about being "independent"? It just strikes me as a word that only women refer to themselves or each other by. You never heard of a man priding himself on being "strong and independent". I do understand why being entirely dependent on another person is undesirable. But i don't see anything desirable about being entirely independent either. Imagine being dependant on someone else, like a child. It wasn't that long ago that a wife was the property of her husband in the uk and within a generation that a married woman was taxed as though she was, I think they got separate taxation in the 60s. Men have been independent for all time so never have to lay claim to it. Because you've never experienced being treated as a woman for a significant part of your life (I imagine) is hard to empathise with what it is to be one. We just have to accept that their explication if it is accurate. It's very similar to whether white people can understand what it's like to be black. To be honest I don't think that they can. I'm white by the way. Mike xx Two problems with that. Wives have never been property and it's intellectually dishonest to describe them as such. Secondly, I don't need to live as a woman to get a priori knowledge of it. Using your logic, women could also never have a posteriori knowledge to prove that living as a man was easier either. " " love honour and obey " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Out of interest, what do you think is desirable about being "independent"? It just strikes me as a word that only women refer to themselves or each other by. You never heard of a man priding himself on being "strong and independent". I do understand why being entirely dependent on another person is undesirable. But i don't see anything desirable about being entirely independent either. Imagine being dependant on someone else, like a child. It wasn't that long ago that a wife was the property of her husband in the uk and within a generation that a married woman was taxed as though she was, I think they got separate taxation in the 60s. Men have been independent for all time so never have to lay claim to it. Because you've never experienced being treated as a woman for a significant part of your life (I imagine) is hard to empathise with what it is to be one. We just have to accept that their explication if it is accurate. It's very similar to whether white people can understand what it's like to be black. To be honest I don't think that they can. I'm white by the way. Mike xx Two problems with that. Wives have never been property and it's intellectually dishonest to describe them as such. Secondly, I don't need to live as a woman to get a priori knowledge of it. Using your logic, women could also never have a posteriori knowledge to prove that living as a man was easier either. " love honour and obey "" Obeisance in a marriage goes both ways. Or one could simply remove "obey" from the vows and be done with it, if that's what gives the impression that women are property of men with no say! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm sorry but that explanation has no relevance either that's about unscrupulous men using a woman, a gent and they've existed since the beginning of time wouldn’t use his partner as a slave and taxation is a government thing not an individual thing " Sadly gentlemen seem to make up a small minority of the population and the unscrupulous bastards have made all the rules so I think it's a valid point. I'm not arguing about individual relationships but how our society treats women and historically it's not been very gentlemanly! lol Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'd say I'm a feminist simply because I think men and women should have equal opportunities/pay/held to the same standards.. But if someone holds a door open for me I'll think they're being nice, I'm not going to cry because they're called man sized tissues or a chocolate bar says "no girls allowed", I may get s little pissy when someone says I can't do my job as well as a guy just because I'm female.. but I'm not going to tear your throat out about it!" I'm sorry, if you believe in equal opportunities and standards for all you're an egalitarian like me. You're not a feminist. Feminists only care for fighting for female privileges and recognition and benefits. There's no end to their crusade and there will never be a time when they reach the promised land of true ideological gender equality they are prepared to accept. Because if they do get there then their whole purpose is gone. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'd say I'm a feminist simply because I think men and women should have equal opportunities/pay/held to the same standards.. But if someone holds a door open for me I'll think they're being nice, I'm not going to cry because they're called man sized tissues or a chocolate bar says "no girls allowed", I may get s little pissy when someone says I can't do my job as well as a guy just because I'm female.. but I'm not going to tear your throat out about it! I'm sorry, if you believe in equal opportunities and standards for all you're an egalitarian like me. You're not a feminist. Feminists only care for fighting for female privileges and recognition and benefits. There's no end to their crusade and there will never be a time when they reach the promised land of true ideological gender equality they are prepared to accept. Because if they do get there then their whole purpose is gone. " You realise that the definition of feminism is to have gender equality right? It was called feminism because women were historically treated as lesser due to their gender.. so it was to make females equal.. It's just that a small section have now turned it into man-bashing which is ridiculous. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Feminists.... Have they moved on from having a bigger tash than my Nan ? No, mine is definitely bigger "https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/aug/20/women-facial-hair | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Feminists.... Have they moved on from having a bigger tash than my Nan ? No, mine is definitely bigger
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/aug/20/women-facial-hair
"I’m jet lagged, am I going to like this? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Stuff like this is why the west is on the decline and Asia on the rise. Soon you'll see masculinity trends and standards shift from this overtly western image to an Asian/non western one. Because at least outside of the Western world, men are still desired and valued for being men the traditional way masculinity always was. " Really? I think the West is doing fine, other then the rise of the populist political movements (but that's another topic). The resin Asia is doing well (as it were) is brevet their economies have finally taken off. The UK had the 5/6/7th there abouts largest economy in the world yet about 1% of the population. It's basic maths that once other, more populous, countries get richer our relative status will decline and I say good for them. Living in a poor country is rubbish and I wish them well in getting as rich as us. After all much of the UK's wealth was looted from those poor countries! Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Two problems with that. Wives have never been property and it's intellectually dishonest to describe them as such. Secondly, I don't need to live as a woman to get a priori knowledge of it. Using your logic, women could also never have a posteriori knowledge to prove that living as a man was easier either. See Coverture, from Wikipedia: "....woman's legal rights and obligations were subsumed by those of her husband, in accordance with the wife's legal status of feme covert. An unmarried woman, a feme sole, had the right to own property and make contracts in her own name. Coverture arises from the legal fiction that a husband and wife are one person." Maybe not property but they had no legal independence from their husband. Probably similar in effect to the way wives are treated in Saudi." You'd really benefit from reading a longer time period. Actually marriage has always primarily been for the woman's benefit, shocking as that sounds in 2018 but it's entirely accurate. What feminists and lefties miss is a sense of perspective about what life was like before 'patriarchy'. Well the answer is 'a lot fucking worse'. Marriage ensured that men couldn't just go around knocking up women and abandoning them, which now back in fashion thanks to feminism. Marriage ensured that the husband couldn't just abandon a woman he was bored with and she had some legal protection. Not as much as now, but people like you seem to forget what women had before marriage - nothing. Just an infant mortality rate that was off the scale and many indifferent fathers. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Feminists.... Have they moved on from having a bigger tash than my Nan ? No, mine is definitely bigger
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/aug/20/women-facial-hair
I’m jet lagged, am I going to like this? "You'll probably like it.... But probably dislike me...  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm sorry, if you believe in equal opportunities and standards for all you're an egalitarian like me. You're not a feminist. Feminists only care for fighting for female privileges and recognition and benefits. " I think by your definition feminists would be a subset of egalitarians. " There's no end to their crusade and there will never be a time when they reach the promised land of true ideological gender equality they are prepared to accept. Because if they do get there then their whole purpose is gone. " This is pure speculation. I don't think even campaigning feminists are that wedded to their 'purpose', well maybe some, but not so many that it undermines their basic arguments about inequality. Is it worth observing that unless one's studied the topic, particularly how our minds work, it's very easy to assume that one's not biased when in fact one is. Brains, don't trust them! Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You'd really benefit from reading a longer time period. Actually marriage has always primarily been for the woman's benefit, shocking as that sounds in 2018 but it's entirely accurate. What feminists and lefties miss is a sense of perspective about what life was like before 'patriarchy'. Well the answer is 'a lot fucking worse'. Marriage ensured that men couldn't just go around knocking up women and abandoning them, which now back in fashion thanks to feminism. Marriage ensured that the husband couldn't just abandon a woman he was bored with and she had some legal protection. Not as much as now, but people like you seem to forget what women had before marriage - nothing. Just an infant mortality rate that was off the scale and many indifferent fathers. " But all those examples are of men treating women shabbily! So the response of society has been to make men the legal guardians of their wives. Isn't that basically a patriarchy? Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Feminists are always moaning...." Presumably it's all the amazing sex they're getting :p | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You'd really benefit from reading a longer time period. Actually marriage has always primarily been for the woman's benefit, shocking as that sounds in 2018 but it's entirely accurate. What feminists and lefties miss is a sense of perspective about what life was like before 'patriarchy'. Well the answer is 'a lot fucking worse'. Marriage ensured that men couldn't just go around knocking up women and abandoning them, which now back in fashion thanks to feminism. Marriage ensured that the husband couldn't just abandon a woman he was bored with and she had some legal protection. Not as much as now, but people like you seem to forget what women had before marriage - nothing. Just an infant mortality rate that was off the scale and many indifferent fathers. But all those examples are of men treating women shabbily! So the response of society has been to make men the legal guardians of their wives. Isn't that basically a patriarchy? Mike xx" The fact is that the average male is 30% stronger than the average female and she has something he wants. You can whinge and complain about that all you like but that's the reality of humans and our ape relatives. So we built social structures to mitigate the worst aspects of human propensity towards violence and grape. Call that patriarchy all you want but monogamous marriage was primarily for women's benefit, not men's. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You'd really benefit from reading a longer time period. Actually marriage has always primarily been for the woman's benefit, shocking as that sounds in 2018 but it's entirely accurate. What feminists and lefties miss is a sense of perspective about what life was like before 'patriarchy'. Well the answer is 'a lot fucking worse'. Marriage ensured that men couldn't just go around knocking up women and abandoning them, which now back in fashion thanks to feminism. Marriage ensured that the husband couldn't just abandon a woman he was bored with and she had some legal protection. Not as much as now, but people like you seem to forget what women had before marriage - nothing. Just an infant mortality rate that was off the scale and many indifferent fathers. But all those examples are of men treating women shabbily! So the response of society has been to make men the legal guardians of their wives. Isn't that basically a patriarchy? Mike xx" By your argument yes that's basically a patriarchy. I think what BrokenBrilliance is getting at is that the much-maligned "patriarchy" that so many feminists (especially third-wave ones) rail against was actually historically what benefited and protected women after the barbarism of true unfettered, might-makes-right masculinity that we see in ancient human history. Genghis Khan would laugh at the idea that patriarchy was oppressive over women. For the male half of humanity, the advent of patriarchy would arguably have been seen as a hindrance more than a boon for them when it first started taking shape. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Feminists.... Have they moved on from having a bigger tash than my Nan ? No, mine is definitely bigger
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/aug/20/women-facial-hair
I’m jet lagged, am I going to like this?
You'll probably like it.... But probably dislike me... "Donna barbuta, sempre piaciuta | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You'd really benefit from reading a longer time period. Actually marriage has always primarily been for the woman's benefit, shocking as that sounds in 2018 but it's entirely accurate. What feminists and lefties miss is a sense of perspective about what life was like before 'patriarchy'. Well the answer is 'a lot fucking worse'. Marriage ensured that men couldn't just go around knocking up women and abandoning them, which now back in fashion thanks to feminism. Marriage ensured that the husband couldn't just abandon a woman he was bored with and she had some legal protection. Not as much as now, but people like you seem to forget what women had before marriage - nothing. Just an infant mortality rate that was off the scale and many indifferent fathers. But all those examples are of men treating women shabbily! So the response of society has been to make men the legal guardians of their wives. Isn't that basically a patriarchy? Mike xx By your argument yes that's basically a patriarchy. I think what BrokenBrilliance is getting at is that the much-maligned "patriarchy" that so many feminists (especially third-wave ones) rail against was actually historically what benefited and protected women after the barbarism of true unfettered, might-makes-right masculinity that we see in ancient human history. Genghis Khan would laugh at the idea that patriarchy was oppressive over women. For the male half of humanity, the advent of patriarchy would arguably have been seen as a hindrance more than a boon for them when it first started taking shape. " Genghis Khan now that was a real man | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You'd really benefit from reading a longer time period. Actually marriage has always primarily been for the woman's benefit, shocking as that sounds in 2018 but it's entirely accurate. What feminists and lefties miss is a sense of perspective about what life was like before 'patriarchy'. Well the answer is 'a lot fucking worse'. Marriage ensured that men couldn't just go around knocking up women and abandoning them, which now back in fashion thanks to feminism. Marriage ensured that the husband couldn't just abandon a woman he was bored with and she had some legal protection. Not as much as now, but people like you seem to forget what women had before marriage - nothing. Just an infant mortality rate that was off the scale and many indifferent fathers. But all those examples are of men treating women shabbily! So the response of society has been to make men the legal guardians of their wives. Isn't that basically a patriarchy? Mike xx By your argument yes that's basically a patriarchy. I think what BrokenBrilliance is getting at is that the much-maligned "patriarchy" that so many feminists (especially third-wave ones) rail against was actually historically what benefited and protected women after the barbarism of true unfettered, might-makes-right masculinity that we see in ancient human history. Genghis Khan would laugh at the idea that patriarchy was oppressive over women. For the male half of humanity, the advent of patriarchy would arguably have been seen as a hindrance more than a boon for them when it first started taking shape. " Exactly. And it's no good saying "tell men not to grape them". Go and research evolution. We were once single cell asexual organisms that evolved to be sexually dimorphic, that's where the size difference comes from. Telling me and woman to act the same is like saying "let's undo ~3 billion years of evolution". | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The fact is that the average male is 30% stronger than the average female and she has something he wants. You can whinge and complain about that all you like but that's the reality of humans and our ape relatives. So we built social structures to mitigate the worst aspects of human propensity towards violence and grape. Call that patriarchy all you want but monogamous marriage was primarily for women's benefit, not men's. " 'Might is right' is surely one of those things that works fine in nature but goes against any idea of civilised behaviour. Assuming one wishes to live in a civilised environment (I certainly do) then we should be worried about the rules and in this case the rules have not been created to treat women equally. I see no wrong in women wanting to be treated equally by society and those within it. Sure where there are no laws one can do what one likes to weaker individuals or groups but frankly I think that kind of arrangement would cause truly heroic levels of suffering followed by the collapse of technological society and the death of the vast bulk of the population. Granted that's a bit off topic but we're not talking about how non-sentient animals behave but people living in complex groups and it's how they behave that's up for debate. I have noticed that Canadian chap making reductionist arguments for our base nature but he never goes on to say that while we are animals we should strive to overcome some of the unfortunate traits that come from our evolution. He might not approve of non-conscentual sex, murder, stealing etc but he never approves of efforts to overcome those behaviors with social controls curbing some of our freedoms. He has quite a following so I imagine his views are widely shared. Cunning but deeply ugly thinking to my mind. Popular with middle aged white men for some reason! lol (spot the vested interest. ....*sighs*) Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You'd really benefit from reading a longer time period. Actually marriage has always primarily been for the woman's benefit, shocking as that sounds in 2018 but it's entirely accurate. What feminists and lefties miss is a sense of perspective about what life was like before 'patriarchy'. Well the answer is 'a lot fucking worse'. Marriage ensured that men couldn't just go around knocking up women and abandoning them, which now back in fashion thanks to feminism. Marriage ensured that the husband couldn't just abandon a woman he was bored with and she had some legal protection. Not as much as now, but people like you seem to forget what women had before marriage - nothing. Just an infant mortality rate that was off the scale and many indifferent fathers. But all those examples are of men treating women shabbily! So the response of society has been to make men the legal guardians of their wives. Isn't that basically a patriarchy? Mike xx By your argument yes that's basically a patriarchy. I think what BrokenBrilliance is getting at is that the much-maligned "patriarchy" that so many feminists (especially third-wave ones) rail against was actually historically what benefited and protected women after the barbarism of true unfettered, might-makes-right masculinity that we see in ancient human history. Genghis Khan would laugh at the idea that patriarchy was oppressive over women. For the male half of humanity, the advent of patriarchy would arguably have been seen as a hindrance more than a boon for them when it first started taking shape. Exactly. And it's no good saying "tell men not to grape them". Go and research evolution. We were once single cell asexual organisms that evolved to be sexually dimorphic, that's where the size difference comes from. Telling me and woman to act the same is like saying "let's undo ~3 billion years of evolution". " I love a good grape especially in tuscany | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"By your argument yes that's basically a patriarchy. I think what BrokenBrilliance is getting at is that the much-maligned "patriarchy" that so many feminists (especially third-wave ones) rail against was actually historically what benefited and protected women after the barbarism of true unfettered, might-makes-right masculinity that we see in ancient human history. Genghis Khan would laugh at the idea that patriarchy was oppressive over women. For the male half of humanity, the advent of patriarchy would arguably have been seen as a hindrance more than a boon for them when it first started taking shape. Exactly. And it's no good saying "tell men not to grape them". Go and research evolution. We were once single cell asexual organisms that evolved to be sexually dimorphic, that's where the size difference comes from. Telling me and woman to act the same is like saying "let's undo ~3 billion years of evolution". " Exactly. We're evil little shits when left to our own devices and with luck society moderates some of the nastiness. Some women feel it's not given then enough equality and I agree with them. Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"By your argument yes that's basically a patriarchy. I think what BrokenBrilliance is getting at is that the much-maligned "patriarchy" that so many feminists (especially third-wave ones) rail against was actually historically what benefited and protected women after the barbarism of true unfettered, might-makes-right masculinity that we see in ancient human history. Genghis Khan would laugh at the idea that patriarchy was oppressive over women. For the male half of humanity, the advent of patriarchy would arguably have been seen as a hindrance more than a boon for them when it first started taking shape. Exactly. And it's no good saying "tell men not to grape them". Go and research evolution. We were once single cell asexual organisms that evolved to be sexually dimorphic, that's where the size difference comes from. Telling me and woman to act the same is like saying "let's undo ~3 billion years of evolution". Exactly. We're evil little shits when left to our own devices and with luck society moderates some of the nastiness. Some women feel it's not given then enough equality and I agree with them. Mike xx" Equality for equality's own sake does nobody any good. If you want to talk equality, then surely being equal under the law is the most sensible place to start is it not? If you want to talk about equality in terms of gender roles, frankly speaking do you care for equality as much as you should care about getting the job on hand done well by whoever is best capable of doing so, and if somehow that means dividing the labour according to either male or female roles why is that a bad thing if two halves combine to make a better whole? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The fact is that the average male is 30% stronger than the average female and she has something he wants. You can whinge and complain about that all you like but that's the reality of humans and our ape relatives. So we built social structures to mitigate the worst aspects of human propensity towards violence and grape. Call that patriarchy all you want but monogamous marriage was primarily for women's benefit, not men's. 'Might is right' is surely one of those things that works fine in nature but goes against any idea of civilised behaviour. Assuming one wishes to live in a civilised environment (I certainly do) then we should be worried about the rules and in this case the rules have not been created to treat women equally. I see no wrong in women wanting to be treated equally by society and those within it. Sure where there are no laws one can do what one likes to weaker individuals or groups but frankly I think that kind of arrangement would cause truly heroic levels of suffering followed by the collapse of technological society and the death of the vast bulk of the population. Granted that's a bit off topic but we're not talking about how non-sentient animals behave but people living in complex groups and it's how they behave that's up for debate. I have noticed that Canadian chap making reductionist arguments for our base nature but he never goes on to say that while we are animals we should strive to overcome some of the unfortunate traits that come from our evolution. He might not approve of non-conscentual sex, murder, stealing etc but he never approves of efforts to overcome those behaviors with social controls curbing some of our freedoms. He has quite a following so I imagine his views are widely shared. Cunning but deeply ugly thinking to my mind. Popular with middle aged white men for some reason! lol (spot the vested interest. ....*sighs*) Mike xx" But civilisation is patriarchy apparently | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Has this bottomed out yet ?" *furiously digs with a shovel* Three more comments sir! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Has this bottomed out yet ? *furiously digs with a shovel* Three more comments sir! " I'm running out of popcorn... But keep going | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Equality for equality's own sake does nobody any good." Really? I suspect it does the down-trodden minority (majority for women) some good, just at the expense of those with the power in an unequal system. "If you want to talk equality, then surely being equal under the law is the most sensible place to start is it not?" Probably the only place, clearly people aren't going to do it of their own volition and en mass! "If you want to talk about equality in terms of gender roles, frankly speaking do you care for equality as much as you should care about getting the job on hand done well by whoever is best capable of doing so, and if somehow that means dividing the labour according to either male or female roles why is that a bad thing if two halves combine to make a better whole? " Certainly I used to be in favour of a meritocracy and still think it seems sensible but of late I've been reading that meritocracy can lead to unfavorable outcomes for the majority in the long run and as a utilitarian (sort of) I have problems with that. Fundamentally there seem to be some deep rooted conflicts in the range of human sentiments which seem to make it very difficult to please all of the people at the same time which is distressing (to me any way) but I do hope for a society that attempts to make everyone (including future generations) as happy as practically possible and sometimes that means a little inconvenience to some people while society transitions to a new state. I do realise that not everyone shares my perspective or desired outcome which makes things very awkward but that's humanity for you. We all think we're right and by our internal measures we are. (Cue endless conflict). Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"But civilisation is patriarchy apparently " Funnily enough both your explanation of marriage and the feminists suggest that civilisation (at least ours, in the UK) is indeed a patriarchy. QED. They do have case. It's very much like how homosexuality was treated until recently and it wasn't so very long ago that we were having this kind of debate about enslaving black people. While one is living through the discussion it's very hard to see the woods for the trees, clearly I'm claiming to be able to do so, at least slightly more clearly than those who disagree with me, and of course I could be wrong but the only certain way to know is to live for a very long time and to be able to change one's mind. I'm pleased to be able to say that I can change my mind (see note about the meritocracy above) but I doubt I'm going to live long enough to find out which side is right about this. I would posit that the data is on my side but lack the enthusiasm to go and find it all for you given how little data does to change people's opinions (another annoying human trait). Mike xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| back to top |  |
