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"I recently inadvertently befriended a working girl for a brief period. This is what i learnt from the experience, i am not pretending this was some kind of scientific experiment, but i believe much of what I'm about to say would apply to most sex workers. We met via social media. I think she intended to recruit me as a customer but the conversation moved in another direction fast and we ended up doing normal social activities together. I had my suspicions about her job but she never explicitly axknowledged it until the last time i saw her. For the record, at no point did we have any sexual contact although she offered me a freebie with her colleague, which i politely declined. I'll start with the nice things about her. She is a kind person, warm personality and keeps herself healthy (i.e. she works out and eats a clean diet). She is not using any drugs and i never even saw her drink or smoke. She probably makes more money than me in a year! However, it became apparent we could not be friends. Probably the issues are more on my side than hers but here's why. Personally i spend probably 60% of my thoughts thinking about the future, 20% on the past and 20% on the present. With a bit of exaggeration she spends 99% thinking about the present and 1% about the past. She is in absolute denial about the longevity of this job and the risks she takes. The place where she works, i would rate 4/10 for security. It's not terrible but there are some easy improvements that would make the girls much safer; cameras, a buzzer/ lock door and a reception area. The girls themselves make a lot of amateur mistakes that would piss customers off and don't do things that would help them. In amsterdam /germany most girls wash your cock first, why - to check it for STDs primarily. Any such suggestions were quickly shut down because that involves thinking about the future. My conclusion is that she doesn't hate the job. I won't say she likes it but the sex is generally quick, mundane and the guys acceptable. Other girls she works with told me about the horrors of working in dubai and the customers there; making UK men seem like a relative saints. The job suits part of her because it pays well and uses absolute minimal mental effort. I believe she is capable of such thought, but unwilling. Physically it's quite demanding, i don't believe she has any real sleep pattern and i wondered how much of her refusal to engage in deep thought was due to prolonged sleep deprivation. 3am is not an unpopular time for regular customers to get the itch. Ironically she is pretty conservative and completely looked down her nose at swinging when i explained it. In her view it's repulsive to share the one you love, even though she has a boyfriend who doesn't know what she does for a living. She just has complete mental conpartmentalisation of her job and personal life; to the point of dellusion (in my opinion). So why are we no longer friends? Mentally i couldn't deal with worrying about her. The stubborn refusal to implement fairly basic safety procures make me sick with worry and i found shutting down my feelings of friendship to be the only viable coping strategy. I think that the only type of man she could really be friends with would be one also totally absorbed in the here and now. I inadvertently offended her on a number of occasions including a time giving a direct answer to her colleague who asked my opinion on the job. I said that morally i had no problem with it, but i felt the safety was slack there and the conversation went downhill from there. Looking back, I know i walked into that one. It was an interesting experience and i went on an emotional rollercoaster starting with pity, followed by worry and ending in frustration. It strengthened my view that brothels should be legalised so they can fucking be run properly and not by amateurs. She's a nice person but we are very different people. Above all else it made me realise how much of a difference (i feel) choice makes when it comes to having multiple sex partners. " I have also got a good friend who is an Escort and no for the record I am not in anyway in sexuial relations with her. It did worry me at first, "I thought no not again, how could she put herself at risk, how would her family,boyfriend, child if something was to happen to her." She easies me that its nothing like the stigma. Its her free will and free choice and that she makes good money that goes towards her studies. Are we still friends yes because we have known each other a while and although not your every day conversation we can talk about these things straight if she wants to talk about it. | |||
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" I have also got a good friend who is an Escort and no for the record I am not in anyway in sexuial relations with her. It did worry me at first, "I thought no not again, how could she put herself at risk, how would her family,boyfriend, child if something was to happen to her." She easies me that its nothing like the stigma. Its her free will and free choice and that she makes good money that goes towards her studies. Are we still friends yes because we have known each other a while and although not your every day conversation we can talk about these things straight if she wants to talk about it. " Did you recognise any of the personality traits in her that i mentioned? I know they put on a brave face but the risks are just a matter of probability and probability follows the number of rolls of the dice. | |||
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" I have also got a good friend who is an Escort and no for the record I am not in anyway in sexuial relations with her. It did worry me at first, "I thought no not again, how could she put herself at risk, how would her family,boyfriend, child if something was to happen to her." She easies me that its nothing like the stigma. Its her free will and free choice and that she makes good money that goes towards her studies. Are we still friends yes because we have known each other a while and although not your every day conversation we can talk about these things straight if she wants to talk about it. Did you recognise any of the personality traits in her that i mentioned? I know they put on a brave face but the risks are just a matter of probability and probability follows the number of rolls of the dice. " If I'm honest I recognise very few traits, the bf one notably. I am willing to talk to you in more detail over pm. She likes sex she came from this world and decided "why am I doing this for free when I could be paid for it." | |||
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"I think you may be worrying too much, the fact that she's in a brothel makes her safer than most escorts, who tend to work from hotel rooms, serviced apartments, or their own homes. Sadly she's probably in more danger from the police than from her clients, given that brothels are illegal. Technically it's not illegal to work in one, only to run one, but she could be turfed out after a raid, and have cash confiscated. " Yeah, she lives there too! The brothel provides accomodation as they are constantly rotating the girls, most seem to stay for 2 weeks. It's not a bad place but the constant noise and zero privacy means she can rarely get more than 4 hours sleep uninterrupted, i think she survives on cat naps to be honest. But as i said, unless there is a raid happening now then she's not going to think about it. | |||
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" I have also got a good friend who is an Escort and no for the record I am not in anyway in sexuial relations with her. It did worry me at first, "I thought no not again, how could she put herself at risk, how would her family,boyfriend, child if something was to happen to her." She easies me that its nothing like the stigma. Its her free will and free choice and that she makes good money that goes towards her studies. Are we still friends yes because we have known each other a while and although not your every day conversation we can talk about these things straight if she wants to talk about it. Did you recognise any of the personality traits in her that i mentioned? I know they put on a brave face but the risks are just a matter of probability and probability follows the number of rolls of the dice. If I'm honest I recognise very few traits, the bf one notably. I am willing to talk to you in more detail over pm. She likes sex she came from this world and decided "why am I doing this for free when I could be paid for it."" As i say, she's conservative by nature so certainly not a nympho. She sees work as a way to live and doesn't have a concept of a career. A consequence of her failure to think about the future is that she doesn't have any marketable skills as such, so her career options are very limited at this point. | |||
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"You didnt pay to have sex with her, but you have paid to have sex with others? I mean your knowledge of how they work in amsterdam shows you do use prostitutes or did you just watch a documentary? Did you maybe provide statistics to her that show a brothel in amsterdam is safer, or did you get your opinion that it is safer from just thinkig it must be? Less privacy can be safer, it makes it harder for someone to realistically attack someone and get away scott free. Are you qualified in security? or running a brothel? They may have gotten annoyed at your statements because you are not qualified to comment. They have maybe been in multiple brothels and know the difference between a safe one and a dangerous one. Do you get sick with worry about your cop friends, or friend working as a bouncer, or a friend in the army? Do you tell them you cant be friends because their job might be dangerous?" Why the attitude? It was a thoughtful and thought-provoking piece. | |||
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"You didnt pay to have sex with her, but you have paid to have sex with others? I mean your knowledge of how they work in amsterdam shows you do use prostitutes or did you just watch a documentary? Did you maybe provide statistics to her that show a brothel in amsterdam is safer, or did you get your opinion that it is safer from just thinkig it must be? Less privacy can be safer, it makes it harder for someone to realistically attack someone and get away scott free. Are you qualified in security? or running a brothel? They may have gotten annoyed at your statements because you are not qualified to comment. They have maybe been in multiple brothels and know the difference between a safe one and a dangerous one. Do you get sick with worry about your cop friends, or friend working as a bouncer, or a friend in the army? Do you tell them you cant be friends because their job might be dangerous?" Wow lot's of questions! Yes i know people in the army and worry about them when they have been in Afghanistan. Her job is not the reason we can't be friends. We enjoy very different types of conversation. I am not especially interested in how your day was or what you had for tea. I like to talk about the future and where life is going. Hence why i can easily have friends in the army. Logic is independent of the person stating it, so qualifications are not necessary to state logic. It's just a simple fact that a locked door is more secure than an unlocked one. Checked a penis for STDs is safer than not checking it. Nothing they said ever indicated they'd ever worked in a decent brothel (e.g. amsterdam or germany). They had been to worse ones. For the record, no I've never paid a prostitute for sex. I've had hand jobs all around the world though. | |||
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"Totally agree with you that bothels should be legalised. Though not perfect, it would be the single best safety measure for the girls and the punters. It's time we grew up in the UK and accepted that prostitution isn't going to go away if we 'ban' it. Which, of course, we can't." It's hard to see who loses from legalising them. Not the tax man, NHS, women or customers. Maybe a few dellusional people with Victorian mindsets get their bubble burst but it's sad to see how far ahead other countries are. In germany most the brothels have social areas where customers can't go but girls can relax if they feel stressed. It had some games, TV, pool table, kitchen area etc. | |||
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"You didnt pay to have sex with her, but you have paid to have sex with others? I mean your knowledge of how they work in amsterdam shows you do use prostitutes or did you just watch a documentary? Did you maybe provide statistics to her that show a brothel in amsterdam is safer, or did you get your opinion that it is safer from just thinkig it must be? Less privacy can be safer, it makes it harder for someone to realistically attack someone and get away scott free. Are you qualified in security? or running a brothel? They may have gotten annoyed at your statements because you are not qualified to comment. They have maybe been in multiple brothels and know the difference between a safe one and a dangerous one. Do you get sick with worry about your cop friends, or friend working as a bouncer, or a friend in the army? Do you tell them you cant be friends because their job might be dangerous? Why the attitude? It was a thoughtful and thought-provoking piece." Thank you, i thought it was a more interesting thing to discuss than another 'kiss, fuck, avoid' thread but not everyone agrees!  | |||
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" I have also got a good friend who is an Escort and no for the record I am not in anyway in sexuial relations with her. It did worry me at first, "I thought no not again, how could she put herself at risk, how would her family,boyfriend, child if something was to happen to her." She easies me that its nothing like the stigma. Its her free will and free choice and that she makes good money that goes towards her studies. Are we still friends yes because we have known each other a while and although not your every day conversation we can talk about these things straight if she wants to talk about it. Did you recognise any of the personality traits in her that i mentioned? I know they put on a brave face but the risks are just a matter of probability and probability follows the number of rolls of the dice. " I think your being a tad judgemental really.. do you not think swinging is as risky? x | |||
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" I have also got a good friend who is an Escort and no for the record I am not in anyway in sexuial relations with her. It did worry me at first, "I thought no not again, how could she put herself at risk, how would her family,boyfriend, child if something was to happen to her." She easies me that its nothing like the stigma. Its her free will and free choice and that she makes good money that goes towards her studies. Are we still friends yes because we have known each other a while and although not your every day conversation we can talk about these things straight if she wants to talk about it. Did you recognise any of the personality traits in her that i mentioned? I know they put on a brave face but the risks are just a matter of probability and probability follows the number of rolls of the dice. I think your being a tad judgemental really.. do you not think swinging is as risky? x" Which bit is judgemental? | |||
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" I have also got a good friend who is an Escort and no for the record I am not in anyway in sexuial relations with her. It did worry me at first, "I thought no not again, how could she put herself at risk, how would her family,boyfriend, child if something was to happen to her." She easies me that its nothing like the stigma. Its her free will and free choice and that she makes good money that goes towards her studies. Are we still friends yes because we have known each other a while and although not your every day conversation we can talk about these things straight if she wants to talk about it. Did you recognise any of the personality traits in her that i mentioned? I know they put on a brave face but the risks are just a matter of probability and probability follows the number of rolls of the dice. I think your being a tad judgemental really.. do you not think swinging is as risky? x Which bit is judgemental?" that she isn't looking to the future that shes putting herself at risk. Most of it to be fair. I know lots of working girls... and some do it for a job to get by while they can. Others actually make a career out of it. Washing a cock doesnt make it safer and escorts tend to use condoms for more things than swingers. For instance my friend rarely does oral without yet I as a swinger wont use a condom for oral. The girls in groups tend to look after each other and an unlocked door is a lot safer | |||
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"nice to read - one basic thing you didnt mention (i dont think) is she simply chooses this way of life- ive been through some crap and yes the past crops up in my thoughts - i do live more or less for the moment and try not to worry about the future - not a lot of difference really but yet worlds apart - " I can't really tell how much of her mindset is a coping mechanism due to the job or whether she fell into that job because of her mindset. I think one could objectively say she makes more money doing it than any other choice she's had for a long time. That is the most important criteria for her. To be fair i've never heard an investment banker say they love their job and would do it for the passion, either. | |||
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" I have also got a good friend who is an Escort and no for the record I am not in anyway in sexuial relations with her. It did worry me at first, "I thought no not again, how could she put herself at risk, how would her family,boyfriend, child if something was to happen to her." She easies me that its nothing like the stigma. Its her free will and free choice and that she makes good money that goes towards her studies. Are we still friends yes because we have known each other a while and although not your every day conversation we can talk about these things straight if she wants to talk about it. Did you recognise any of the personality traits in her that i mentioned? I know they put on a brave face but the risks are just a matter of probability and probability follows the number of rolls of the dice. I think your being a tad judgemental really.. do you not think swinging is as risky? x Which bit is judgemental? that she isn't looking to the future that shes putting herself at risk. Most of it to be fair. I know lots of working girls... and some do it for a job to get by while they can. Others actually make a career out of it. Washing a cock doesnt make it safer and escorts tend to use condoms for more things than swingers. For instance my friend rarely does oral without yet I as a swinger wont use a condom for oral. The girls in groups tend to look after each other and an unlocked door is a lot safer" As a person she doesn't look into the future. That's an objective statement based on my experience, not a judgement. Leaving the front door to the apartment unlocked at 4am close to the town centre is not safer than locking it and choosing who to let in. Sex workers are at higher risk of violence than the generl population. That is just satistical fact. Taking time to inspect a dick for things like genital warts is better than fumbling around in a dark room and hoping for the best. That is just logic. I think you are reading what you want to read. | |||
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" I have also got a good friend who is an Escort and no for the record I am not in anyway in sexuial relations with her. It did worry me at first, "I thought no not again, how could she put herself at risk, how would her family,boyfriend, child if something was to happen to her." She easies me that its nothing like the stigma. Its her free will and free choice and that she makes good money that goes towards her studies. Are we still friends yes because we have known each other a while and although not your every day conversation we can talk about these things straight if she wants to talk about it. Did you recognise any of the personality traits in her that i mentioned? I know they put on a brave face but the risks are just a matter of probability and probability follows the number of rolls of the dice. I think your being a tad judgemental really.. do you not think swinging is as risky? x Which bit is judgemental? that she isn't looking to the future that shes putting herself at risk. Most of it to be fair. I know lots of working girls... and some do it for a job to get by while they can. Others actually make a career out of it. Washing a cock doesnt make it safer and escorts tend to use condoms for more things than swingers. For instance my friend rarely does oral without yet I as a swinger wont use a condom for oral. The girls in groups tend to look after each other and an unlocked door is a lot safer As a person she doesn't look into the future. That's an objective statement based on my experience, not a judgement. Leaving the front door to the apartment unlocked at 4am close to the town centre is not safer than locking it and choosing who to let in. Sex workers are at higher risk of violence than the generl population. That is just satistical fact. Taking time to inspect a dick for things like genital warts is better than fumbling around in a dark room and hoping for the best. That is just logic. I think you are reading what you want to read. " no i think your judging someone unfairly x so we shall agree to disagree.. i think no swinger can even judge a working girl/guy yet many do. | |||
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" I have also got a good friend who is an Escort and no for the record I am not in anyway in sexuial relations with her. It did worry me at first, "I thought no not again, how could she put herself at risk, how would her family,boyfriend, child if something was to happen to her." She easies me that its nothing like the stigma. Its her free will and free choice and that she makes good money that goes towards her studies. Are we still friends yes because we have known each other a while and although not your every day conversation we can talk about these things straight if she wants to talk about it. Did you recognise any of the personality traits in her that i mentioned? I know they put on a brave face but the risks are just a matter of probability and probability follows the number of rolls of the dice. I think your being a tad judgemental really.. do you not think swinging is as risky? x Which bit is judgemental? that she isn't looking to the future that shes putting herself at risk. Most of it to be fair. I know lots of working girls... and some do it for a job to get by while they can. Others actually make a career out of it. Washing a cock doesnt make it safer and escorts tend to use condoms for more things than swingers. For instance my friend rarely does oral without yet I as a swinger wont use a condom for oral. The girls in groups tend to look after each other and an unlocked door is a lot safer As a person she doesn't look into the future. That's an objective statement based on my experience, not a judgement. Leaving the front door to the apartment unlocked at 4am close to the town centre is not safer than locking it and choosing who to let in. Sex workers are at higher risk of violence than the generl population. That is just satistical fact. Taking time to inspect a dick for things like genital warts is better than fumbling around in a dark room and hoping for the best. That is just logic. I think you are reading what you want to read. no i think your judging someone unfairly x so we shall agree to disagree.. i think no swinger can even judge a working girl/guy yet many do." I take it you don't lock your door at night then. If you read the thread properly you'd also see that she judges swingers without hesitation so your ideas about who is being judged couldn't be more wrong. | |||
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"Thanks for an interesting thread op. I've worked with vulnerable people before and I wonder if your post is a tad naive. When people are in vulnerable situations, especially when they are used to others looking down on them, they develop a me vs them mentality. It's a defence mechanism that helps them get through the day. A core part of that entails not being open and honest with others about the real you. This can cause them to pretend they have no dreams or plans for the future. To show such personal secrets to you would be to open up and bare even more of their vulnerability to "them". I don't know if any of this applies to your story. But it may explain why she appeared to lack any vision of a future. She simply didn't trust you, nor perhaps anyone else, with it. Getting to know vulnerable people, and trying to help them, can be an incredibly rewarding experience. But you need to make sure that, at the very least, you do no harm. Offering friendship and then taking it away can feed into a cycle such people have had to endure since early childhood. " Thanks for the considered reply. Yes i do stress that i can't tell how much of her mentality is caused by the job. She is certainly sleep deprived and works very long hours because there are appointments to arrange and new girls coming and going, so it's not all about the number of customers. There are a few things i didn't mention that might cause you to conclude that on balance, she chose the job because of her personality. I'd be happy to PM them if you are interested. | |||
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"Thanks for an interesting thread op. I've worked with vulnerable people before and I wonder if your post is a tad naive. When people are in vulnerable situations, especially when they are used to others looking down on them, they develop a me vs them mentality. It's a defence mechanism that helps them get through the day. A core part of that entails not being open and honest with others about the real you. This can cause them to pretend they have no dreams or plans for the future. To show such personal secrets to you would be to open up and bare even more of their vulnerability to "them". I don't know if any of this applies to your story. But it may explain why she appeared to lack any vision of a future. She simply didn't trust you, nor perhaps anyone else, with it. Getting to know vulnerable people, and trying to help them, can be an incredibly rewarding experience. But you need to make sure that, at the very least, you do no harm. Offering friendship and then taking it away can feed into a cycle such people have had to endure since early childhood. " VERY insightful post. | |||
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"It's true that sex workers are at a higher risk of various crimes, but it's worth unpicking that a little. A small and decreasing percentage are streetwalkers (about 10% now IIRC), and most of those have other problems (notably homelessness and drug addiction: in fact, most are junkies who then got into prostitution to get cash for their habit). They are highly unrepresentative of mainstream sex workers, yet most statistics bandied about by abolitionists relate to just them. It's difficult to find statistics covering all sex workers, and even more difficult to find statistics that specifically exclude streetwalkers. Unfortunately there's a lot of negative propaganda about. The most startling I've seen was from radfem crackpot Melissa Farley, who claimed that the average age of women entering prostitution is 13-14. How did she get that? By sampling a small group who were all underage when they started (none who started as adults were included), and recording the age at which they had their "first sexual experience" (which could have been their first kiss). I still see that ludicrous figure cropping up, even though the average age of women entering prostitution is actually 22-23. " I do love a good statistic, thanks for sharing those insights  | |||
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"It's true that sex workers are at a higher risk of various crimes, but it's worth unpicking that a little. A small and decreasing percentage are streetwalkers (about 10% now IIRC), and most of those have other problems (notably homelessness and drug addiction: in fact, most are junkies who then got into prostitution to get cash for their habit). They are highly unrepresentative of mainstream sex workers, yet most statistics bandied about by abolitionists relate to just them. It's difficult to find statistics covering all sex workers, and even more difficult to find statistics that specifically exclude streetwalkers. Unfortunately there's a lot of negative propaganda about. The most startling I've seen was from radfem crackpot Melissa Farley, who claimed that the average age of women entering prostitution is 13-14. How did she get that? By sampling a small group who were all underage when they started (none who started as adults were included), and recording the age at which they had their "first sexual experience" (which could have been their first kiss). I still see that ludicrous figure cropping up, even though the average age of women entering prostitution is actually 22-23. " Sounds about right. My friend I mentioned she's 32 started at 24 | |||
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