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"You're not being niave at all and it is important for you to meet with someone who you can communicate well and openly with, don't let any 'doms' tell you what you can and can't do save that for the bedroom (or 'scenes' beyond that). Its ok to have a voice and ask questions and trust is extremely important." Thanks Hun. Maybe just chatting to the wrong ones lol. I havnt out anything about it on my profile to not attract the weirdos so it just comes up in conversation I guess but these guys just expect you to turn up on a meet with their mrs and become their "cum slut" lot. | |||
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"Oh and no its not normal to jump into full on situations, alot of people here seem to think so, but in bdsm the experience means so much more when theres a good build up of trust and you will have a much more enjoyable experience for it" | |||
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"Ive been intrigued by the bdsm scene for couple of years now and had a very brief experience with a guy last year which I liked I have been chatting with couples and the odd guy on here with the view to meeting and discussed what I like and may be open to trying when I was comfortable with but I just get guys wanting to jump right into fairly full on situations from an initial meet? Is that normal. ? I'm not sure how sub I can be ( I'm a feisty fecker ) but would love to explore more with the right person. Surely the role of a Dom is to suss the girl out, limits etc and slowly push boundries etc? Or am I being completely naive? Any advice would be greatly appreciated x" You've got it right. Take your time. I've usually had it the opposite and I've been like a kid in a sweet shop wanting to jump in and the experienced Doms have been like... woah... you can wait. I find it useful if playing with a new play partner to know what's going to happen during that first scene. So they'll plan it a little and tell me what to expect. Helps to build trust. Speak to other subs. They are usually more than happy to share experiences or offer advice. | |||
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"Oh and no its not normal to jump into full on situations, alot of people here seem to think so, but in bdsm the experience means so much more when theres a good build up of trust and you will have a much more enjoyable experience for it" That was my understanding. Meet. Chat. Fool around. See what we are like together. Build up to situations. That's not the guys I've been chatting too lol | |||
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"Can't say I'm an expert but hey have my 2p. For me BDSM and in some senses submission comes from a desire to submit. The belief that there is gratification to be found from letting go of control. The knowledge that the one in control will guide, and steer you to pleasure, relaxation, heightened sensation and a higher focus. Restraint, carefully applied pain, and sensations and textures can all work towards that focus. There's pleasure to be had from emptying your head and focussing on another and their pleasure. " But it takes time and effort to reach that point. Certainly not a same day activity | |||
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"You're not being niave at all and it is important for you to meet with someone who you can communicate well and openly with, don't let any 'doms' tell you what you can and can't do save that for the bedroom (or 'scenes' beyond that). Its ok to have a voice and ask questions and trust is extremely important. Thanks Hun. Maybe just chatting to the wrong ones lol. I havnt out anything about it on my profile to not attract the weirdos so it just comes up in conversation I guess but these guys just expect you to turn up on a meet with their mrs and become their "cum slut" lot. " Oh I have a friend with a terrible experience of meeting a couple on here like you wouldnt beleive, and he didnt understand why my friend would speak up and have a voice he thought subs were just supposed to do as he willed them just because. Night ended with his partner in hospital from heavy drinking and the police had to come over to check on my friend | |||
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"Ive been intrigued by the bdsm scene for couple of years now and had a very brief experience with a guy last year which I liked I have been chatting with couples and the odd guy on here with the view to meeting and discussed what I like and may be open to trying when I was comfortable with but I just get guys wanting to jump right into fairly full on situations from an initial meet? Is that normal. ? I'm not sure how sub I can be ( I'm a feisty fecker ) but would love to explore more with the right person. Surely the role of a Dom is to suss the girl out, limits etc and slowly push boundries etc? Or am I being completely naive? Any advice would be greatly appreciated x You've got it right. Take your time. I've usually had it the opposite and I've been like a kid in a sweet shop wanting to jump in and the experienced Doms have been like... woah... you can wait. I find it useful if playing with a new play partner to know what's going to happen during that first scene. So they'll plan it a little and tell me what to expect. Helps to build trust. Speak to other subs. They are usually more than happy to share experiences or offer advice. " Thanks hunny. I've been made out to Be naive so I wondered if it's me. I'm not sure what my limits are so it needs developing. Thanks for putting my mind at rest Hun x | |||
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"Can't say I'm an expert but hey have my 2p. For me BDSM and in some senses submission comes from a desire to submit. The belief that there is gratification to be found from letting go of control. The knowledge that the one in control will guide, and steer you to pleasure, relaxation, heightened sensation and a higher focus. ThTs exactly what I love about it. I'm very much in control of my life and love the idea of not having to be with someone I trust x Restraint, carefully applied pain, and sensations and textures can all work towards that focus. There's pleasure to be had from emptying your head and focussing on another and their pleasure. " | |||
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"Nobody should go into a situation like that with preconceived ideas. Discussion and exploration is key. I wouldn't advocate meeting anybody alone in a bdsm situation until and unless you know and trust them. There aren't hard and fast rules, don't let anybody tell you there are Lots of clubs run specific events, maybe try one of them." I've never been to a club to be honest and couldn't go to one alone x | |||
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"You're not being niave at all and it is important for you to meet with someone who you can communicate well and openly with, don't let any 'doms' tell you what you can and can't do save that for the bedroom (or 'scenes' beyond that). Its ok to have a voice and ask questions and trust is extremely important. Thanks Hun. Maybe just chatting to the wrong ones lol. I havnt out anything about it on my profile to not attract the weirdos so it just comes up in conversation I guess but these guys just expect you to turn up on a meet with their mrs and become their "cum slut" lot. Oh I have a friend with a terrible experience of meeting a couple on here like you wouldnt beleive, and he didnt understand why my friend would speak up and have a voice he thought subs were just supposed to do as he willed them just because. Night ended with his partner in hospital from heavy drinking and the police had to come over to check on my friend" Omg that's awful! I've had a police encounter from here too. Very scary shit x | |||
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"Can't say I'm an expert but hey have my 2p. For me BDSM and in some senses submission comes from a desire to submit. The belief that there is gratification to be found from letting go of control. The knowledge that the one in control will guide, and steer you to pleasure, relaxation, heightened sensation and a higher focus. ThTs exactly what I love about it. I'm very much in control of my life and love the idea of not having to be with someone I trust x Restraint, carefully applied pain, and sensations and textures can all work towards that focus. There's pleasure to be had from emptying your head and focussing on another and their pleasure. " Well here's hoping you find what you're looking for. I've enjoyed it thoroughly on the rare occasion I've found the one to suit me and I them. | |||
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"Read up on it (Screw the Roses, Give Me Thorns is a fantastic book you can easily find online), talk to other people who have had the experiences you're curious about on this site, attend munches (there are numerous around the country) and relax and take your time with it. There are a lot of Christian Grey impersonators on here - you shouldn't go full on straight away as a newbie as there are limits and that sort of thing to work out. Best of luck with your journey OP, it can be fun but takes time. " Thankyou Hun. I won't be rushing lol. X | |||
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"Can't say I'm an expert but hey have my 2p. For me BDSM and in some senses submission comes from a desire to submit. The belief that there is gratification to be found from letting go of control. The knowledge that the one in control will guide, and steer you to pleasure, relaxation, heightened sensation and a higher focus. ThTs exactly what I love about it. I'm very much in control of my life and love the idea of not having to be with someone I trust x Restraint, carefully applied pain, and sensations and textures can all work towards that focus. There's pleasure to be had from emptying your head and focussing on another and their pleasure. Well here's hoping you find what you're looking for. I've enjoyed it thoroughly on the rare occasion I've found the one to suit me and I them. " That's very true. I guess I'm a bit boring to them too as it's all new x | |||
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"You're not being niave at all and it is important for you to meet with someone who you can communicate well and openly with, don't let any 'doms' tell you what you can and can't do save that for the bedroom (or 'scenes' beyond that). Its ok to have a voice and ask questions and trust is extremely important. Thanks Hun. Maybe just chatting to the wrong ones lol. I havnt out anything about it on my profile to not attract the weirdos so it just comes up in conversation I guess but these guys just expect you to turn up on a meet with their mrs and become their "cum slut" lot. Oh I have a friend with a terrible experience of meeting a couple on here like you wouldnt beleive, and he didnt understand why my friend would speak up and have a voice he thought subs were just supposed to do as he willed them just because. Night ended with his partner in hospital from heavy drinking and the police had to come over to check on my friend Omg that's awful! I've had a police encounter from here too. Very scary shit x" I'm the friend he means, in a way it was my own fault for rushing to meet, I didn't think clearly enough and didn't see the warning signs, mistakes do happen and I was lucky that time, it could have been a lot worse, learn from my experience and don't let yourself become suckered in | |||
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" That's very true. I guess I'm a bit boring to them too as it's all new x" It's seduction like any other. It's not a case of walking in and being commanded. There's a dance, a seduction a guiding hand a growth in desire and then, you'll open up to them. They need to earn your trust. | |||
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"You're not being niave at all and it is important for you to meet with someone who you can communicate well and openly with, don't let any 'doms' tell you what you can and can't do save that for the bedroom (or 'scenes' beyond that). Its ok to have a voice and ask questions and trust is extremely important. Thanks Hun. Maybe just chatting to the wrong ones lol. I havnt out anything about it on my profile to not attract the weirdos so it just comes up in conversation I guess but these guys just expect you to turn up on a meet with their mrs and become their "cum slut" lot. Oh I have a friend with a terrible experience of meeting a couple on here like you wouldnt beleive, and he didnt understand why my friend would speak up and have a voice he thought subs were just supposed to do as he willed them just because. Night ended with his partner in hospital from heavy drinking and the police had to come over to check on my friend Omg that's awful! I've had a police encounter from here too. Very scary shit x I'm the friend he means, in a way it was my own fault for rushing to meet, I didn't think clearly enough and didn't see the warning signs, mistakes do happen and I was lucky that time, it could have been a lot worse, learn from my experience and don't let yourself become suckered in " Christ thankfully your ok. I'm actually very wary so do back out if I'm not happy x | |||
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" That's very true. I guess I'm a bit boring to them too as it's all new x It's seduction like any other. It's not a case of walking in and being commanded. There's a dance, a seduction a guiding hand a growth in desire and then, you'll open up to them. They need to earn your trust. " That was my thinking. Phew it's not just me being naive then. Thankyou x | |||
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"Make sure to ask questions, ask what experience they have, guys that dislike that are fakes and raise red flags, make someone worthy of your submission, you're handing them a huge gift, don't let them treat you lightly, put yourself and your needs first and make sure they are what u want and most importantly, never settle " That's true I guess. I think they will find newbies boring hence me not going after it more seriously. Is it a turn off to them? | |||
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"I'm glad you refuse to rush and you're taking your time, C is a good Dom and happy to offer advice without pressure if you want, I can offer the same from a Sub POV, feel free to pm either of us " I will do that thankyou Hun. Feel so much better x | |||
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"Make sure to ask questions, ask what experience they have, guys that dislike that are fakes and raise red flags, make someone worthy of your submission, you're handing them a huge gift, don't let them treat you lightly, put yourself and your needs first and make sure they are what u want and most importantly, never settle That's true I guess. I think they will find newbies boring hence me not going after it more seriously. Is it a turn off to them? " I'd see no distinction between an experienced sub or a newbie. Each experience is sooooo different and totally personal. The joy is finding that route together. | |||
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"Make sure to ask questions, ask what experience they have, guys that dislike that are fakes and raise red flags, make someone worthy of your submission, you're handing them a huge gift, don't let them treat you lightly, put yourself and your needs first and make sure they are what u want and most importantly, never settle That's true I guess. I think they will find newbies boring hence me not going after it more seriously. Is it a turn off to them? I'd see no distinction between an experienced sub or a newbie. Each experience is sooooo different and totally personal. The joy is finding that route together. " Sorry but seriously?? Yes each is unique but experienced tend to know what they want and newbies need a guiding hand to fend off ass hats that always try and take advantage, that's the distinction, as a community we tend to stick together and help when asked | |||
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"Make sure to ask questions, ask what experience they have, guys that dislike that are fakes and raise red flags, make someone worthy of your submission, you're handing them a huge gift, don't let them treat you lightly, put yourself and your needs first and make sure they are what u want and most importantly, never settle That's true I guess. I think they will find newbies boring hence me not going after it more seriously. Is it a turn off to them? " Some will, some won't. Like with everything though. For me a sub who ran head first into her first D/s experience without having much clue about it would be a much bigger turn-off than a complete newbie. Trust is huge on the Dom side of things too. You need to be comfortable knowing that this is exactly what the sub wants, is fully informed, and has put a lot of thought and time into making sure of that. It's impossible to have D/s encounter the first time you meet. That is what I would refer to as topping and bottoming. Basically the Top is the person who takes control and dictates what happen. D/s is based more on the mental aspect of that situation in my opinion. And to achieve that you need to know the person, trust them, and be completely comfortable in their company. Everyone will reach that point differently and have their own guidelines on when that happens. For me I'd just ask myself if I would trust that person with my bank card and PIN code. | |||
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"The question from the op was is she less interesting to a potential Dom as a newbie. I'd say the response was fair. There is certainly a specific and individual route for each pair. Yes experience has of course it's advantages but I don't think it's fair to suggest she should be concerned that she is unattractive because of that inexperience. She will find her coupling just as everyone else does. In time. At her own pace and hopefully with support and advice. I wasn't trivialising. " She was asking for advice about getting into the scene, she is a very attractive woman and wether she is Sub or not is only a bonus, I'm positive she will find someone she is fully happy with as soon as she's comfortable enough, my point was that there is a huge difference between someone new to the lifestyle than someone experienced, that's why newbies ask the more experienced for a guiding hand, it works in bdsm or any other topic | |||
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"Make sure to ask questions, ask what experience they have, guys that dislike that are fakes and raise red flags, make someone worthy of your submission, you're handing them a huge gift, don't let them treat you lightly, put yourself and your needs first and make sure they are what u want and most importantly, never settle That's true I guess. I think they will find newbies boring hence me not going after it more seriously. Is it a turn off to them? Some will, some won't. Like with everything though. For me a sub who ran head first into her first D/s experience without having much clue about it would be a much bigger turn-off than a complete newbie. Trust is huge on the Dom side of things too. You need to be comfortable knowing that this is exactly what the sub wants, is fully informed, and has put a lot of thought and time into making sure of that. It's impossible to have D/s encounter the first time you meet. That is what I would refer to as topping and bottoming. Basically the Top is the person who takes control and dictates what happen. D/s is based more on the mental aspect of that situation in my opinion. And to achieve that you need to know the person, trust them, and be completely comfortable in their company. Everyone will reach that point differently and have their own guidelines on when that happens. For me I'd just ask myself if I would trust that person with my bank card and PIN code. " | |||
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"Make sure to ask questions, ask what experience they have, guys that dislike that are fakes and raise red flags, make someone worthy of your submission, you're handing them a huge gift, don't let them treat you lightly, put yourself and your needs first and make sure they are what u want and most importantly, never settle That's true I guess. I think they will find newbies boring hence me not going after it more seriously. Is it a turn off to them? I'd see no distinction between an experienced sub or a newbie. Each experience is sooooo different and totally personal. The joy is finding that route together. " | |||
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"Make sure to ask questions, ask what experience they have, guys that dislike that are fakes and raise red flags, make someone worthy of your submission, you're handing them a huge gift, don't let them treat you lightly, put yourself and your needs first and make sure they are what u want and most importantly, never settle That's true I guess. I think they will find newbies boring hence me not going after it more seriously. Is it a turn off to them? I'd see no distinction between an experienced sub or a newbie. Each experience is sooooo different and totally personal. The joy is finding that route together. Sorry but seriously?? Yes each is unique but experienced tend to know what they want and newbies need a guiding hand to fend off ass hats that always try and take advantage, that's the distinction, as a community we tend to stick together and help when asked " That's true. It's daunting knowing you might like something. It having no idea where to start or how to feed out the guys who thrive on causing you pain etc. It's also dUnting not knowing if you'd be "enough" for thT person. I'm very confident in bed but this is very different | |||
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"The question from the op was is she less interesting to a potential Dom as a newbie. I'd say the response was fair. There is certainly a specific and individual route for each pair. Yes experience has of course it's advantages but I don't think it's fair to suggest she should be concerned that she is unattractive because of that inexperience. She will find her coupling just as everyone else does. In time. At her own pace and hopefully with support and advice. I wasn't trivialising. " Thankyou | |||
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"The question from the op was is she less interesting to a potential Dom as a newbie. I'd say the response was fair. There is certainly a specific and individual route for each pair. Yes experience has of course it's advantages but I don't think it's fair to suggest she should be concerned that she is unattractive because of that inexperience. She will find her coupling just as everyone else does. In time. At her own pace and hopefully with support and advice. I wasn't trivialising. She was asking for advice about getting into the scene, she is a very attractive woman and wether she is Sub or not is only a bonus, I'm positive she will find someone she is fully happy with as soon as she's comfortable enough, my point was that there is a huge difference between someone new to the lifestyle than someone experienced, that's why newbies ask the more experienced for a guiding hand, it works in bdsm or any other topic " Thanks hunny. A lot of debate today lol it helps to know what is normal to expect the guys have chatted to so far have really concerned me x | |||
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"Make sure to ask questions, ask what experience they have, guys that dislike that are fakes and raise red flags, make someone worthy of your submission, you're handing them a huge gift, don't let them treat you lightly, put yourself and your needs first and make sure they are what u want and most importantly, never settle That's true I guess. I think they will find newbies boring hence me not going after it more seriously. Is it a turn off to them? Some will, some won't. Like with everything though. For me a sub who ran head first into her first D/s experience without having much clue about it would be a much bigger turn-off than a complete newbie. Trust is huge on the Dom side of things too. You need to be comfortable knowing that this is exactly what the sub wants, is fully informed, and has put a lot of thought and time into making sure of that. It's impossible to have D/s encounter the first time you meet. That is what I would refer to as topping and bottoming. Basically the Top is the person who takes control and dictates what happen. D/s is based more on the mental aspect of that situation in my opinion. And to achieve that you need to know the person, trust them, and be completely comfortable in their company. Everyone will reach that point differently and have their own guidelines on when that happens. For me I'd just ask myself if I would trust that person with my bank card and PIN code. " That's a great analogy! I've taken lots on board. Thankyou! | |||
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"I'm trying to reply to your pm but have been blocked by this site because of a reference I tried to give you to another site, it says the block will lift in a couple of hours " | |||
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"I'm trying to reply to your pm but have been blocked by this site because of a reference I tried to give you to another site, it says the block will lift in a couple of hours " I tried to add you as a friend Hun but it said I was out of your age range haha x | |||
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"i spent a lot of time reading material and the popular website for this. i spent a lot of time at munches i spent some time socially at fet events watching, talking and then i spent alot of time soul searching what i wanted, why i wanted it, what kind of person could give me that. i spoke to a fair few Doms. i realised it was their approach with me that made me want to be willing..this i believe is different for every sub, if that spark isnt there, chemistry, if you dont feel somewhere you want to be a sub for this person...then basically dont. i filled out my own hard. soft limit list for where i was..also acknowledging where i was nervous and why. and i did the BDSM checklist which was interesting as it threw up things i hadn't considered before. i also considered my other side, that of Domme, and what kind of Domme id be, because this actually shows up some correlations to why id make a good sub and what i needed a Dom to offer me. every Dom and sub relationship is different, but the best way to recognise that Dom for you, is to know what kind of sub you are, so foremostly its a journey of inner discovery. its always about communication and you should try to find someone who knows that. a good way of sussing them out is to ask what experiences they have had, whether they have been on the scene, what events they've been to, how many subs they've had before, why their dynamics ended, and what they do for aftercare x enjoy your journey xx " That's a really interesting reply and I will research a bit more what I'm looking for. I have an idea but won't hurt to look deeper. Thankyou so much x | |||
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"Thanks everyone for your fantastic replies! I think I will change my profile when I can think what to put without alerting all the oddballs and Christian grey wannabes. But definitely lots to think about. Thankyou so much guys. I feel a lot happier I'm not being naive Just need to find a piential BBW loving patient dom now.. not difficult at all right? " good luck with that | |||
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"Get along to your local Fetish Events or Munches and Socials, meet others into the scene so that you can chat, get advice and make friends. " I'm not sure I have the balls to go to a social but I will check some out thankyou X | |||
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"One thing I always recommend (echoing sub _ilac) is talk to other subs, they will tell you about tell tale signs to look for, some have been mentioned by others on here. There is a great thread for newbies on a certain site. One thing not to forget, make it fun, you have to balance the intensity. Well in my world. " I chatted to a couple of doms and subs yesterday so feel more enlightened lol. I'm not holding my breath finding someone on here but will bide my time and see. Thanks for the reply x | |||
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"Get along to your local Fetish Events or Munches and Socials, meet others into the scene so that you can chat, get advice and make friends. I'm not sure I have the balls to go to a social but I will check some out thankyou X" Just so you know, a lot of munches and fetish fairs have a 'meet and greet' person who you can contact beforehand and arrange to meet for a coffee beforehand and enter together. Often they will be someone 'similar' to you, e.g. sub female in your case to put you at ease. Take you time, keep your eyes open. Sounds like you are fairly able to spot a chancer... but alas there are a lot of predators out there. -Matt | |||
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"Get along to your local Fetish Events or Munches and Socials, meet others into the scene so that you can chat, get advice and make friends. I'm not sure I have the balls to go to a social but I will check some out thankyou X Just so you know, a lot of munches and fetish fairs have a 'meet and greet' person who you can contact beforehand and arrange to meet for a coffee beforehand and enter together. Often they will be someone 'similar' to you, e.g. sub female in your case to put you at ease. Take you time, keep your eyes open. Sounds like you are fairly able to spot a chancer... but alas there are a lot of predators out there. -Matt" Ah I did not know that. That would help. Thanks so much. Ah I don't suffer fools put it that way hence me being challenging really but thanks so much for your advice x | |||
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"Get along to your local Fetish Events or Munches and Socials, meet others into the scene so that you can chat, get advice and make friends. I'm not sure I have the balls to go to a social but I will check some out thankyou X Just so you know, a lot of munches and fetish fairs have a 'meet and greet' person who you can contact beforehand and arrange to meet for a coffee beforehand and enter together. Often they will be someone 'similar' to you, e.g. sub female in your case to put you at ease. Take you time, keep your eyes open. Sounds like you are fairly able to spot a chancer... but alas there are a lot of predators out there. -Matt Ah I did not know that. That would help. Thanks so much. Ah I don't suffer fools put it that way hence me being challenging really but thanks so much for your advice x" Good And don't make the mistake that 'feisty' or 'challenging' is in someway un-submissive. My wife/sub Vik is one of the feistiest and strongest women I know. Just because you choose (or are looking to choose) to submit to someone does not mean you are submissive to all or any. -Matt | |||
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"Get along to your local Fetish Events or Munches and Socials, meet others into the scene so that you can chat, get advice and make friends. I'm not sure I have the balls to go to a social but I will check some out thankyou X Just so you know, a lot of munches and fetish fairs have a 'meet and greet' person who you can contact beforehand and arrange to meet for a coffee beforehand and enter together. Often they will be someone 'similar' to you, e.g. sub female in your case to put you at ease. Take you time, keep your eyes open. Sounds like you are fairly able to spot a chancer... but alas there are a lot of predators out there. -Matt Ah I did not know that. That would help. Thanks so much. Ah I don't suffer fools put it that way hence me being challenging really but thanks so much for your advice x Good And don't make the mistake that 'feisty' or 'challenging' is in someway un-submissive. My wife/sub Vik is one of the feistiest and strongest women I know. Just because you choose (or are looking to choose) to submit to someone does not mean you are submissive to all or any. -Matt" That's. fair comment I guess. Some guys will like a challenge lol | |||
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"One thing I always recommend (echoing sub _ilac) is talk to other subs, they will tell you about tell tale signs to look for, some have been mentioned by others on here. There is a great thread for newbies on a certain site. One thing not to forget, make it fun, you have to balance the intensity. Well in my world. I chatted to a couple of doms and subs yesterday so feel more enlightened lol. I'm not holding my breath finding someone on here but will bide my time and see. Thanks for the reply x" They are out there just don't rush for fun to be great trust is the most important thing to find ? Have found a lovely lady who trusts me and this has led to fun times and now pushing each other's boundaries! We can only do this because of the trust while playing Hope this doesn't sound bad because the benefits are so worth it Good luck | |||
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"One thing I always recommend (echoing sub _ilac) is talk to other subs, they will tell you about tell tale signs to look for, some have been mentioned by others on here. There is a great thread for newbies on a certain site. One thing not to forget, make it fun, you have to balance the intensity. Well in my world. I chatted to a couple of doms and subs yesterday so feel more enlightened lol. I'm not holding my breath finding someone on here but will bide my time and see. Thanks for the reply x Thankyou. I will They are out there just don't rush for fun to be great trust is the most important thing to find ? Have found a lovely lady who trusts me and this has led to fun times and now pushing each other's boundaries! We can only do this because of the trust while playing Hope this doesn't sound bad because the benefits are so worth it Good luck " | |||
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