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Newbies and younger generation

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I love this site but it seems my age and the amount of short time I've been in this site no one wants to even read message etc, I don't message the same person if they don't reply and I'm not pushy, anyone got any tips on all to new to this give the young generation a chance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Same here would love to know

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

It's a shame, I just want to settle in and it seems people are rude and cast a bad thought because of my age :/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Same

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

Don't confuse this site with the swinging community. It's a website and a means to meeting people, but going to clubs and parties and meeting people is what it is all about ...
"I love this site but it seems my age and the amount of short time I've been in this site no one wants to even read message etc, I don't message the same person if they don't reply and I'm not pushy, anyone got any tips on all to new to this give the young generation a chance "

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I'm not angling this towards the swinging community or bringing bad light to the situation just wanted some advice

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

Again I would say go to clubs and events as you could chat to people and they wouldn't be rude


"I'm not angling this towards the swinging community or bringing bad light to the situation just wanted some advice "

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Thank you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Again I would say go to clubs and events as you could chat to people and they wouldn't be rude

I'm not angling this towards the swinging community or bringing bad light to the situation just wanted some advice "

It's very daunting and sometimes difficult for a "single" person to go to a club. I don't think I would have the courage, and I'm not as young as OP.

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

A social then?


"

Again I would say go to clubs and events as you could chat to people and they wouldn't be rude

I'm not angling this towards the swinging community or bringing bad light to the situation just wanted some advice

It's very daunting and sometimes difficult for a "single" person to go to a club. I don't think I would have the courage, and I'm not as young as OP."

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

See I'm not that nervous normally but to go to first club or social is making me feel nervous already x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seemed fine to me so far, just relax be patient and chat

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Yeah I thinks that's the best just be patient and slowly get into it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

A social then?

Again I would say go to clubs and events as you could chat to people and they wouldn't be rude

I'm not angling this towards the swinging community or bringing bad light to the situation just wanted some advice

It's very daunting and sometimes difficult for a "single" person to go to a club. I don't think I would have the courage, and I'm not as young as OP."

It's just as daunting at a social. I'd be concerned about walking into the room and looking like "billy no mates". Much easier to do with someone by your side.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"See I'm not that nervous normally but to go to first club or social is making me feel nervous already x"

Exactly this for me too. Daunting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Try to target people's statuses and work them into your message that way, they'll know straight away that you paid at least some attention to their profile and it can be used as a good ice breaker.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Cheers mate ^^ thank you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem isn't your age, the problem is what you perceive this site to be. You've been here one week dude, it doesn't work like that. If you're pissed off now, wait until you hit the 3 month mark!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"The problem isn't your age, the problem is what you perceive this site to be. You've been here one week dude, it doesn't work like that. If you're pissed off now, wait until you hit the 3 month mark! "

It's not even I'm pissed off dude, I'm enjoying it just needed some advice on how to use this site properly I'm patient and will continue to be patient cheers for the advice mate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I love this site but it seems my age and the amount of short time I've been in this site no one wants to even read message etc, I don't message the same person if they don't reply and I'm not pushy, anyone got any tips on all to new to this give the young generation a chance "

If you are relying on this site to find meetings, then I would recommend that you ask for profile advice.

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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen


"See I'm not that nervous normally but to go to first club or social is making me feel nervous already x

Exactly this for me too. Daunting "

There is nothing daunting to a social, I've been to loads on my own, I even flew down to one in London. If I can do it, then anyone can!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Perhaps I need a partner to go to my first club or social haha any takers ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The problem isn't your age, the problem is what you perceive this site to be. You've been here one week dude, it doesn't work like that. If you're pissed off now, wait until you hit the 3 month mark!

It's not even I'm pissed off dude, I'm enjoying it just needed some advice on how to use this site properly I'm patient and will continue to be patient cheers for the advice mate "

That's fair enough, if you're patient and don't mind the odd rejection, you'll be fine

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Thanks for the advice mate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've been on here since I was 20. Ive never has a problem meeting. Though it was mostly women and couples who would have something to say about my age.

If you're having trouble then id suggest going to a club or a social night.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unfortunately the site has attracted many single males and females looking for just random one off sex probably becouse theyve run out of peaple on other lesser apps...

Fabswinger is about swinging and that primarily means groups of peaple mainly couples getting together and having lots of sexi fun and giggles

Myself personally i think to many peaple are jumping on the band wagon of this site being a free way to get laid.....

Go to club or a social a sicial isnt really any different to walking into a night club alone tbh only real difference is a social you know there all kinky as buggery where as a night club its all about getting hammerd....

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

You've been here a week, OP. If you handle it right, you could be on here for years and having loads of sex with various people BUT

You have to be patient - not many people will reply to you and it's not rude if they don't, so make sure you read profiles and send individualised messages that show you have read and target them to people you think you might be a match for. They might not think you are but hey ho......grow a thick skin and get used to being ignored and turned down. In the whole scheme of things that sort of things doesn't matter.

Go to a social - check out the whole of fab, the chatrooms, forums, etc and be prepared to travel to a social. Usually it's just a bar or pub or cafe with an organiser who can introduce you to people and then it's up to you.....

Be yourself - you're unique so play to your strengths.

Good luck

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I've been on here since I was 20. Ive never has a problem meeting. Though it was mostly women and couples who would have something to say about my age.

If you're having trouble then id suggest going to a club or a social night. "

Thank you I will go to club or social soon just need someone to go with x

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By *ymph84Woman
over a year ago

durham

Some clubs have a lower age limit. I know my local club have. You have to be at least 23

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"I've been on here since I was 20. Ive never has a problem meeting. Though it was mostly women and couples who would have something to say about my age.

If you're having trouble then id suggest going to a club or a social night.

Thank you I will go to club or social soon just need someone to go with x"

No you don't....be confident. You'll need more confidence stripping off in front of 3 strangers and fucking a guys wife than you'll need to walk through a cafe door.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"You've been here a week, OP. If you handle it right, you could be on here for years and having loads of sex with various people BUT

You have to be patient - not many people will reply to you and it's not rude if they don't, so make sure you read profiles and send individualised messages that show you have read and target them to people you think you might be a match for. They might not think you are but hey ho......grow a thick skin and get used to being ignored and turned down. In the whole scheme of things that sort of things doesn't matter.

Go to a social - check out the whole of fab, the chatrooms, forums, etc and be prepared to travel to a social. Usually it's just a bar or pub or cafe with an organiser who can introduce you to people and then it's up to you.....

Be yourself - you're unique so play to your strengths.

Good luck "

Your wise words have been taken on board thank you very much

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/11/16 13:25:51]

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I've been on here since I was 20. Ive never has a problem meeting. Though it was mostly women and couples who would have something to say about my age.

If you're having trouble then id suggest going to a club or a social night.

Thank you I will go to club or social soon just need someone to go with x

No you don't....be confident. You'll need more confidence stripping off in front of 3 strangers and fucking a guys wife than you'll need to walk through a cafe door. "

Haha you have a point, thank you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unfortunately the site has attracted many single males and females looking for just random one off sex probably becouse theyve run out of peaple on other lesser apps...

Fabswinger is about swinging and that primarily means groups of peaple mainly couples getting together and having lots of sexi fun and giggles

Myself personally i think to many peaple are jumping on the band wagon of this site being a free way to get laid.....

Go to club or a social a sicial isnt really any different to walking into a night club alone tbh only real difference is a social you know there all kinky as buggery where as a night club its all about getting hammerd....

"

I agree, this site is swamped by people who have no concept of what the Swinging life-style is all about. For casual hook-ups, there are apps, for Swinging there is Fab!

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By *lceeWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

I'm not sure - I only like guys and girls my age and above. I'm an eldest child so anything younger makes me feel like I'm looking at one of my younger brother's friends. Not something that has ever appealed.

I think most people would say that they have a lower age limit to what is attractive to them...your issue is that most people your age won't go onto a swingers site to find sex, they'll go to bars, clubs and Tindr, so you have a smaller pool of people already to choose from.

That being said, we all have smaller pools to choose from. I limit myself to older, erudite Doms...so I'll get less action than a 'nilla.

Swingers' clubs are definitely the way forward, and chatting on the forums - as you meet people and make friends, you'll find that it gets easier

Good luck, and have an awesome time you lucky young things!

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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago

in the suffolk countryside

some of us organise socials and understand what its like to be new, we were all new once.. there are a few going on in the next month and even more in the months to come.

usually you can contact the club or organiser who will talk to you and put you at your ease, treat it like a night out no expectations, just to go and have a nose. at the very least one of the other social attendees will talk to you and socially veri you. the big advantage is that you will start being known as a person, not just a profile with your age coming more in to play than it would face to face.

have a little faith and trust and seek one of them out xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'm not sure - I only like guys and girls my age and above. I'm an eldest child so anything younger makes me feel like I'm looking at one of my younger brother's friends. Not something that has ever appealed.

I think most people would say that they have a lower age limit to what is attractive to them...your issue is that most people your age won't go onto a swingers site to find sex, they'll go to bars, clubs and Tindr, so you have a smaller pool of people already to choose from.

That being said, we all have smaller pools to choose from. I limit myself to older, erudite Doms...so I'll get less action than a 'nilla.

Swingers' clubs are definitely the way forward, and chatting on the forums - as you meet people and make friends, you'll find that it gets easier

Good luck, and have an awesome time you lucky young things!"

Thank you for your advice, it's much appreciated

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"See I'm not that nervous normally but to go to first club or social is making me feel nervous already x

Exactly this for me too. Daunting

There is nothing daunting to a social, I've been to loads on my own, I even flew down to one in London. If I can do it, then anyone can! "

Good for you, you're obviously extremely confident

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"some of us organise socials and understand what its like to be new, we were all new once.. there are a few going on in the next month and even more in the months to come.

usually you can contact the club or organiser who will talk to you and put you at your ease, treat it like a night out no expectations, just to go and have a nose. at the very least one of the other social attendees will talk to you and socially veri you. the big advantage is that you will start being known as a person, not just a profile with your age coming more in to play than it would face to face.

have a little faith and trust and seek one of them out xx"

Aww thank you for your kind words, I sure I will find my feet, but your advice has helped put me more at ease already xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unfortunately the site has attracted many single males and females looking for just random one off sex probably becouse theyve run out of peaple on other lesser apps...

Fabswinger is about swinging and that primarily means groups of peaple mainly couples getting together and having lots of sexi fun and giggles

Myself personally i think to many peaple are jumping on the band wagon of this site being a free way to get laid.....

Go to club or a social a sicial isnt really any different to walking into a night club alone tbh only real difference is a social you know there all kinky as buggery where as a night club its all about getting hammerd....

I agree, this site is swamped by people who have no concept of what the Swinging life-style is all about. For casual hook-ups, there are apps, for Swinging there is Fab! "

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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago

in the suffolk countryside


"some of us organise socials and understand what its like to be new, we were all new once.. there are a few going on in the next month and even more in the months to come.

usually you can contact the club or organiser who will talk to you and put you at your ease, treat it like a night out no expectations, just to go and have a nose. at the very least one of the other social attendees will talk to you and socially veri you. the big advantage is that you will start being known as a person, not just a profile with your age coming more in to play than it would face to face.

have a little faith and trust and seek one of them out xx

Aww thank you for your kind words, I sure I will find my feet, but your advice has helped put me more at ease already xx"

its only the mental preparation that causes the nerves, 30 secs of the unknown, you are through the door and into a new world to take in, at your leisure x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unfortunately the site has attracted many single males and females looking for just random one off sex probably becouse theyve run out of peaple on other lesser apps...

Fabswinger is about swinging and that primarily means groups of peaple mainly couples getting together and having lots of sexi fun and giggles

Myself personally i think to many peaple are jumping on the band wagon of this site being a free way to get laid.....

Go to club or a social a sicial isnt really any different to walking into a night club alone tbh only real difference is a social you know there all kinky as buggery where as a night club its all about getting hammerd....

I agree, this site is swamped by people who have no concept of what the Swinging life-style is all about. For casual hook-ups, there are apps, for Swinging there is Fab!

"

I'm a single and want to be involved in swinging, I'm certainly not just after a quick way to get laid. But it isn't the easiest being single. I would never walk into a nightclub alone let alone a swingers club. I've been to a club and if I hadn't of attended it with a man, I definitely would of been sat alone. People, especially couples, I found were "clique" and tended not to mingle out of their "established group".

It's not easy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unfortunately the site has attracted many single males and females looking for just random one off sex probably becouse theyve run out of peaple on other lesser apps...

Fabswinger is about swinging and that primarily means groups of peaple mainly couples getting together and having lots of sexi fun and giggles

Myself personally i think to many peaple are jumping on the band wagon of this site being a free way to get laid.....

Go to club or a social a sicial isnt really any different to walking into a night club alone tbh only real difference is a social you know there all kinky as buggery where as a night club its all about getting hammerd....

I agree, this site is swamped by people who have no concept of what the Swinging life-style is all about. For casual hook-ups, there are apps, for Swinging there is Fab! "

The swinging lifestyle is about casual NSA sexual hook ups for us , and fab is the best place for us to find that .

And we are swingers , despite the views of whoever else says otherwise .

One cap doesn't fit all with regard to what the swinging lifestyle is . To some it is about the socialising , the friendships , the chatting and so on . To others , like us , it's all about the NSA sex and nothing more .

So the op could check out local meet now adverts , and get himself to one to see what floats his boat . From our experience of attending socials with single guys , they are mainly put off by the amount of inane chat , people getting tipsy , the cliques and the lack of opportunity to get what they really want - NSA sex . And there's nothing wrong with that , there are loads of couples , and single women who are looking for the same .

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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago

in the suffolk countryside


"Unfortunately the site has attracted many single males and females looking for just random one off sex probably becouse theyve run out of peaple on other lesser apps...

Fabswinger is about swinging and that primarily means groups of peaple mainly couples getting together and having lots of sexi fun and giggles

Myself personally i think to many peaple are jumping on the band wagon of this site being a free way to get laid.....

Go to club or a social a sicial isnt really any different to walking into a night club alone tbh only real difference is a social you know there all kinky as buggery where as a night club its all about getting hammerd....

I agree, this site is swamped by people who have no concept of what the Swinging life-style is all about. For casual hook-ups, there are apps, for Swinging there is Fab!

I'm a single and want to be involved in swinging, I'm certainly not just after a quick way to get laid. But it isn't the easiest being single. I would never walk into a nightclub alone let alone a swingers club. I've been to a club and if I hadn't of attended it with a man, I definitely would of been sat alone. People, especially couples, I found were "clique" and tended not to mingle out of their "established group".

It's not easy."

there have only been two clubs i felt this way in..i shan't name them, most people love them, so my suggestion is to try somewhere else x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unfortunately the site has attracted many single males and females looking for just random one off sex probably becouse theyve run out of peaple on other lesser apps...

Fabswinger is about swinging and that primarily means groups of peaple mainly couples getting together and having lots of sexi fun and giggles

Myself personally i think to many peaple are jumping on the band wagon of this site being a free way to get laid.....

Go to club or a social a sicial isnt really any different to walking into a night club alone tbh only real difference is a social you know there all kinky as buggery where as a night club its all about getting hammerd....

I agree, this site is swamped by people who have no concept of what the Swinging life-style is all about. For casual hook-ups, there are apps, for Swinging there is Fab!

I'm a single and want to be involved in swinging, I'm certainly not just after a quick way to get laid. But it isn't the easiest being single. I would never walk into a nightclub alone let alone a swingers club. I've been to a club and if I hadn't of attended it with a man, I definitely would of been sat alone. People, especially couples, I found were "clique" and tended not to mingle out of their "established group".

It's not easy.there have only been two clubs i felt this way in..i shan't name them, most people love them, so my suggestion is to try somewhere else x"

I do plan to, but not alone. Decent clubs are quite limited here in the North East too, makes it slightly more difficult for me unfortunately.

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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago

in the suffolk countryside


"Unfortunately the site has attracted many single males and females looking for just random one off sex probably becouse theyve run out of peaple on other lesser apps...

Fabswinger is about swinging and that primarily means groups of peaple mainly couples getting together and having lots of sexi fun and giggles

Myself personally i think to many peaple are jumping on the band wagon of this site being a free way to get laid.....

Go to club or a social a sicial isnt really any different to walking into a night club alone tbh only real difference is a social you know there all kinky as buggery where as a night club its all about getting hammerd....

I agree, this site is swamped by people who have no concept of what the Swinging life-style is all about. For casual hook-ups, there are apps, for Swinging there is Fab!

I'm a single and want to be involved in swinging, I'm certainly not just after a quick way to get laid. But it isn't the easiest being single. I would never walk into a nightclub alone let alone a swingers club. I've been to a club and if I hadn't of attended it with a man, I definitely would of been sat alone. People, especially couples, I found were "clique" and tended not to mingle out of their "established group".

It's not easy.there have only been two clubs i felt this way in..i shan't name them, most people love them, so my suggestion is to try somewhere else x

I do plan to, but not alone. Decent clubs are quite limited here in the North East too, makes it slightly more difficult for me unfortunately."

theres a small club within 45 mins of me but i dont go there. i am always travelling over and hour and half any time i go out..upto 3/4 hours. if you want it to happen, it happens x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unfortunately the site has attracted many single males and females looking for just random one off sex probably becouse theyve run out of peaple on other lesser apps...

Fabswinger is about swinging and that primarily means groups of peaple mainly couples getting together and having lots of sexi fun and giggles

Myself personally i think to many peaple are jumping on the band wagon of this site being a free way to get laid.....

Go to club or a social a sicial isnt really any different to walking into a night club alone tbh only real difference is a social you know there all kinky as buggery where as a night club its all about getting hammerd....

I agree, this site is swamped by people who have no concept of what the Swinging life-style is all about. For casual hook-ups, there are apps, for Swinging there is Fab!

I'm a single and want to be involved in swinging, I'm certainly not just after a quick way to get laid. But it isn't the easiest being single. I would never walk into a nightclub alone let alone a swingers club. I've been to a club and if I hadn't of attended it with a man, I definitely would of been sat alone. People, especially couples, I found were "clique" and tended not to mingle out of their "established group".

It's not easy.there have only been two clubs i felt this way in..i shan't name them, most people love them, so my suggestion is to try somewhere else x

I do plan to, but not alone. Decent clubs are quite limited here in the North East too, makes it slightly more difficult for me unfortunately.theres a small club within 45 mins of me but i dont go there. i am always travelling over and hour and half any time i go out..upto 3/4 hours. if you want it to happen, it happens x"

If only my life was that simple

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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago

in the suffolk countryside


"Unfortunately the site has attracted many single males and females looking for just random one off sex probably becouse theyve run out of peaple on other lesser apps...

Fabswinger is about swinging and that primarily means groups of peaple mainly couples getting together and having lots of sexi fun and giggles

Myself personally i think to many peaple are jumping on the band wagon of this site being a free way to get laid.....

Go to club or a social a sicial isnt really any different to walking into a night club alone tbh only real difference is a social you know there all kinky as buggery where as a night club its all about getting hammerd....

I agree, this site is swamped by people who have no concept of what the Swinging life-style is all about. For casual hook-ups, there are apps, for Swinging there is Fab!

I'm a single and want to be involved in swinging, I'm certainly not just after a quick way to get laid. But it isn't the easiest being single. I would never walk into a nightclub alone let alone a swingers club. I've been to a club and if I hadn't of attended it with a man, I definitely would of been sat alone. People, especially couples, I found were "clique" and tended not to mingle out of their "established group".

It's not easy.there have only been two clubs i felt this way in..i shan't name them, most people love them, so my suggestion is to try somewhere else x

I do plan to, but not alone. Decent clubs are quite limited here in the North East too, makes it slightly more difficult for me unfortunately.theres a small club within 45 mins of me but i dont go there. i am always travelling over and hour and half any time i go out..upto 3/4 hours. if you want it to happen, it happens x

If only my life was that simple "

no, noones life is simple..but people want things on a plate and life isnt like that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unfortunately the site has attracted many single males and females looking for just random one off sex probably becouse theyve run out of peaple on other lesser apps...

Fabswinger is about swinging and that primarily means groups of peaple mainly couples getting together and having lots of sexi fun and giggles

Myself personally i think to many peaple are jumping on the band wagon of this site being a free way to get laid.....

Go to club or a social a sicial isnt really any different to walking into a night club alone tbh only real difference is a social you know there all kinky as buggery where as a night club its all about getting hammerd....

I agree, this site is swamped by people who have no concept of what the Swinging life-style is all about. For casual hook-ups, there are apps, for Swinging there is Fab!

I'm a single and want to be involved in swinging, I'm certainly not just after a quick way to get laid. But it isn't the easiest being single. I would never walk into a nightclub alone let alone a swingers club. I've been to a club and if I hadn't of attended it with a man, I definitely would of been sat alone. People, especially couples, I found were "clique" and tended not to mingle out of their "established group".

It's not easy.there have only been two clubs i felt this way in..i shan't name them, most people love them, so my suggestion is to try somewhere else x

I do plan to, but not alone. Decent clubs are quite limited here in the North East too, makes it slightly more difficult for me unfortunately.theres a small club within 45 mins of me but i dont go there. i am always travelling over and hour and half any time i go out..upto 3/4 hours. if you want it to happen, it happens x

If only my life was that simple no, noones life is simple..but people want things on a plate and life isnt like that."

Exactly, we all have to put effort in to go out there and find what we want. That's why I joined here

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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago

in the suffolk countryside


"Unfortunately the site has attracted many single males and females looking for just random one off sex probably becouse theyve run out of peaple on other lesser apps...

Fabswinger is about swinging and that primarily means groups of peaple mainly couples getting together and having lots of sexi fun and giggles

Myself personally i think to many peaple are jumping on the band wagon of this site being a free way to get laid.....

Go to club or a social a sicial isnt really any different to walking into a night club alone tbh only real difference is a social you know there all kinky as buggery where as a night club its all about getting hammerd....

I agree, this site is swamped by people who have no concept of what the Swinging life-style is all about. For casual hook-ups, there are apps, for Swinging there is Fab!

I'm a single and want to be involved in swinging, I'm certainly not just after a quick way to get laid. But it isn't the easiest being single. I would never walk into a nightclub alone let alone a swingers club. I've been to a club and if I hadn't of attended it with a man, I definitely would of been sat alone. People, especially couples, I found were "clique" and tended not to mingle out of their "established group".

It's not easy.there have only been two clubs i felt this way in..i shan't name them, most people love them, so my suggestion is to try somewhere else x

I do plan to, but not alone. Decent clubs are quite limited here in the North East too, makes it slightly more difficult for me unfortunately.theres a small club within 45 mins of me but i dont go there. i am always travelling over and hour and half any time i go out..upto 3/4 hours. if you want it to happen, it happens x

If only my life was that simple no, noones life is simple..but people want things on a plate and life isnt like that.

Exactly, we all have to put effort in to go out there and find what we want. That's why I joined here "

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