Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Back to forum list |
Back to Swingers Chat |
Jump to newest |
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When I was in a relationship I found a huge turn on ,my partner fucking someone else,not certainly behind my back! But swoop wasn't my thing!Actually the whole process was draining as the selection of the couple,set the ground rules etc,but was fun in the end. Now when I go to a club as single , I enjoy watching couples,relax in the Jacuzzi and peeping another people having sex and banter very rarely I play. Here the guys focus in one to one sex and they not open to explore new avenues! I know takes time to visit clubs etc! But just sex with a guy in my vie isn't swinging right? Sorry if isn't perfect English I am foreigner.Thankyou " Swinging is many things to many people but most of all it is what you want it to be. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When I was in a relationship I found a huge turn on ,my partner fucking someone else,not certainly behind my back! But swoop wasn't my thing!Actually the whole process was draining as the selection of the couple,set the ground rules etc,but was fun in the end. Now when I go to a club as single , I enjoy watching couples,relax in the Jacuzzi and peeping another people having sex and banter very rarely I play. Here the guys focus in one to one sex and they not open to explore new avenues! I know takes time to visit clubs etc! But just sex with a guy in my vie isn't swinging right? Sorry if isn't perfect English I am foreigner.Thankyou Swinging is many things to many people but most of all it is what you want it to be." Sorry to sound harsh but that's patently nonsense. Words only have meaning so far as they have a common understanding. If everyone defines swinging differently then the word ceases to be useful. I think OP is correct. A single girl and a single guy having sex one on one are not swinging. A married woman and a single guy would be if they have the husbands consent. If they don't, it's just cheating. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think OP is correct. A single girl and a single guy having sex one on one are not swinging. A married woman and a single guy would be if they have the husbands consent. If they don't, it's just cheating. " But if it's not swinging for singles where do fuckbuddies come into it is that swinging? And surly that means if you have a married women with a single guy with husbands consent that's the woman swinging the guy having sex, but that means you have two people doing the same act with each other but by definition do two different things I don't think that's even possible (boom) my head hurts. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think OP is correct. A single girl and a single guy having sex one on one are not swinging. A married woman and a single guy would be if they have the husbands consent. If they don't, it's just cheating. But if it's not swinging for singles where do fuckbuddies come into it is that swinging? And surly that means if you have a married women with a single guy with husbands consent that's the woman swinging the guy having sex, but that means you have two people doing the same act with each other but by definition do two different things I don't think that's even possible (boom) my head hurts. " I don't really understand why that confuses you to be honest. Fuck buddies are not swinging. If they were, the majority of people in this country would be 'swingers'. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I alway thought swinging was basically a couple including others in their sex life in some way. Or even sexual activity with more than two people at the same time. But it seems have to now become a kinda catch all for everything really, which is why people are getting confused. " If the people involved are happy with what they do , and know what they want it's all good | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think OP is correct. A single girl and a single guy having sex one on one are not swinging. A married woman and a single guy would be if they have the husbands consent. If they don't, it's just cheating. But if it's not swinging for singles where do fuckbuddies come into it is that swinging? And surly that means if you have a married women with a single guy with husbands consent that's the woman swinging the guy having sex, but that means you have two people doing the same act with each other but by definition do two different things I don't think that's even possible (boom) my head hurts. I don't really understand why that confuses you to be honest. Fuck buddies are not swinging. If they were, the majority of people in this country would be 'swingers'. " I share the same opinion.Thankyou | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When I was in a relationship I found a huge turn on ,my partner fucking someone else,not certainly behind my back! But swoop wasn't my thing!Actually the whole process was draining as the selection of the couple,set the ground rules etc,but was fun in the end. Now when I go to a club as single , I enjoy watching couples,relax in the Jacuzzi and peeping another people having sex and banter very rarely I play. Here the guys focus in one to one sex and they not open to explore new avenues! I know takes time to visit clubs etc! But just sex with a guy in my vie isn't swinging right? Sorry if isn't perfect English I am foreigner.Thankyou Swinging is many things to many people but most of all it is what you want it to be. Sorry to sound harsh but that's patently nonsense. Words only have meaning so far as they have a common understanding. If everyone defines swinging differently then the word ceases to be useful. I think OP is correct. A single girl and a single guy having sex one on one are not swinging. A married woman and a single guy would be if they have the husbands consent. If they don't, it's just cheating. " I think some of the posts that have followed this have supported my opinion. Swinging might well be a word and many words in our fine language have several meanings. Swinging is also an activity with many variables. In other words many things to many people. At the end of the day it is no big deal, if you find what you are looking for on this site then it is swinging. Oops there's another meaning. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who gives a shit who calls it what because never will everyone agree Just enjoy it in all it's forms from one on one to a full blown orgy to the stuff in between " I agree, as long as I get my cock sucked by lovely ladies who cares what it's called | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When I was in a relationship I found a huge turn on ,my partner fucking someone else,not certainly behind my back! But swoop wasn't my thing!Actually the whole process was draining as the selection of the couple,set the ground rules etc,but was fun in the end. Now when I go to a club as single , I enjoy watching couples,relax in the Jacuzzi and peeping another people having sex and banter very rarely I play. Here the guys focus in one to one sex and they not open to explore new avenues! I know takes time to visit clubs etc! But just sex with a guy in my vie isn't swinging right? Sorry if isn't perfect English I am foreigner.Thankyou Swinging is many things to many people but most of all it is what you want it to be. Sorry to sound harsh but that's patently nonsense. Words only have meaning so far as they have a common understanding. If everyone defines swinging differently then the word ceases to be useful. I think OP is correct. A single girl and a single guy having sex one on one are not swinging. A married woman and a single guy would be if they have the husbands consent. If they don't, it's just cheating. I think some of the posts that have followed this have supported my opinion. Swinging might well be a word and many words in our fine language have several meanings. Swinging is also an activity with many variables. In other words many things to many people. At the end of the day it is no big deal, if you find what you are looking for on this site then it is swinging. Oops there's another meaning. " Then you would agree everybody who is having sex is a swinger? All my friends and colleagues are swingers because they having sex with their partners? | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Sorry to sound harsh but that's patently nonsense. Words only have meaning so far as they have a common understanding. If everyone defines swinging differently then the word ceases to be useful. I think OP is correct. A single girl and a single guy having sex one on one are not swinging. A married woman and a single guy would be if they have the husbands consent. If they don't, it's just cheating. " Well I disagree - we can't exclude single people from the swinging world, and there's a whole spectrum of different relationships out there. Are you saying only married people can swing for instance? What about fuck buddy "couples" for that matter? What happens when there's two single males and a single female and they all like playing with one another? It's much better to start defining it in positive terms such as respect, friendship, fun and having a liberal attitude to things. I am not saying I'm right, but I am contributing because I do agree with the first paragraph I quoted, and rather sit back and be apathetic I wanted to express what swinging means to me. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When I was in a relationship I found a huge turn on ,my partner fucking someone else,not certainly behind my back! But swoop wasn't my thing!Actually the whole process was draining as the selection of the couple,set the ground rules etc,but was fun in the end. Now when I go to a club as single , I enjoy watching couples,relax in the Jacuzzi and peeping another people having sex and banter very rarely I play. Here the guys focus in one to one sex and they not open to explore new avenues! I know takes time to visit clubs etc! But just sex with a guy in my vie isn't swinging right? Sorry if isn't perfect English I am foreigner.Thankyou " I'm not that bothered what it's called but............fancy a fuck? | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When I was in a relationship I found a huge turn on ,my partner fucking someone else,not certainly behind my back! But swoop wasn't my thing!Actually the whole process was draining as the selection of the couple,set the ground rules etc,but was fun in the end. Now when I go to a club as single , I enjoy watching couples,relax in the Jacuzzi and peeping another people having sex and banter very rarely I play. Here the guys focus in one to one sex and they not open to explore new avenues! I know takes time to visit clubs etc! But just sex with a guy in my vie isn't swinging right? Sorry if isn't perfect English I am foreigner.Thankyou Swinging is many things to many people but most of all it is what you want it to be. Sorry to sound harsh but that's patently nonsense. Words only have meaning so far as they have a common understanding. If everyone defines swinging differently then the word ceases to be useful. I think OP is correct. A single girl and a single guy having sex one on one are not swinging. A married woman and a single guy would be if they have the husbands consent. If they don't, it's just cheating. I think some of the posts that have followed this have supported my opinion. Swinging might well be a word and many words in our fine language have several meanings. Swinging is also an activity with many variables. In other words many things to many people. At the end of the day it is no big deal, if you find what you are looking for on this site then it is swinging. Oops there's another meaning. Then you would agree everybody who is having sex is a swinger? All my friends and colleagues are swingers because they having sex with their partners?" Sorry I fail to see where I said that. You are the one seeking a definition all I am saying is that there are many different opinions as to what constitutes swinging. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" It's much better to start defining it in positive terms such as respect, friendship, fun and having a liberal attitude to things. I am not saying I'm right, but I am contributing because I do agree with the first paragraph I quoted, and rather sit back and be apathetic I wanted to express what swinging means to me. " So to play devil's advocate you would not say sex is an essential element to being a swinger. You could be asexual and still be a swinger if you had respect, friendship, fun and having a liberal attitude to things? | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When I was in a relationship I found a huge turn on ,my partner fucking someone else,not certainly behind my back! But swoop wasn't my thing!Actually the whole process was draining as the selection of the couple,set the ground rules etc,but was fun in the end. Now when I go to a club as single , I enjoy watching couples,relax in the Jacuzzi and peeping another people having sex and banter very rarely I play. Here the guys focus in one to one sex and they not open to explore new avenues! I know takes time to visit clubs etc! But just sex with a guy in my vie isn't swinging right? Sorry if isn't perfect English I am foreigner.Thankyou Swinging is many things to many people but most of all it is what you want it to be. Sorry to sound harsh but that's patently nonsense. Words only have meaning so far as they have a common understanding. If everyone defines swinging differently then the word ceases to be useful. I think OP is correct. A single girl and a single guy having sex one on one are not swinging. A married woman and a single guy would be if they have the husbands consent. If they don't, it's just cheating. I think some of the posts that have followed this have supported my opinion. Swinging might well be a word and many words in our fine language have several meanings. Swinging is also an activity with many variables. In other words many things to many people. At the end of the day it is no big deal, if you find what you are looking for on this site then it is swinging. Oops there's another meaning. Then you would agree everybody who is having sex is a swinger? All my friends and colleagues are swingers because they having sex with their partners? Sorry I fail to see where I said that. You are the one seeking a definition all I am saying is that there are many different opinions as to what constitutes swinging." I never said you said that! I asked you something,when you said swinging have several meanings. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When I was in a relationship I found a huge turn on ,my partner fucking someone else,not certainly behind my back! But swoop wasn't my thing!Actually the whole process was draining as the selection of the couple,set the ground rules etc,but was fun in the end. Now when I go to a club as single , I enjoy watching couples,relax in the Jacuzzi and peeping another people having sex and banter very rarely I play. Here the guys focus in one to one sex and they not open to explore new avenues! I know takes time to visit clubs etc! But just sex with a guy in my vie isn't swinging right? Sorry if isn't perfect English I am foreigner.Thankyou Swinging is many things to many people but most of all it is what you want it to be. Sorry to sound harsh but that's patently nonsense. Words only have meaning so far as they have a common understanding. If everyone defines swinging differently then the word ceases to be useful. I think OP is correct. A single girl and a single guy having sex one on one are not swinging. A married woman and a single guy would be if they have the husbands consent. If they don't, it's just cheating. I think some of the posts that have followed this have supported my opinion. Swinging might well be a word and many words in our fine language have several meanings. Swinging is also an activity with many variables. In other words many things to many people. At the end of the day it is no big deal, if you find what you are looking for on this site then it is swinging. Oops there's another meaning. Then you would agree everybody who is having sex is a swinger? All my friends and colleagues are swingers because they having sex with their partners? Sorry I fail to see where I said that. You are the one seeking a definition all I am saying is that there are many different opinions as to what constitutes swinging.I never said you said that! I asked you something,when you said swinging have several meanings." OK I see what you mean, it appeared to be a statement. No I do not think everyone who is having sex is a swinger. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" But just sex with a guy in my view isn't swinging right? " I definitely think you've got a point there! I once had a discussion with a married couple, good swinging friends of mine. We talked about that as a minimum swinging needs a couple to be actually that, swinging. And historically swinging started as Wife Swap. Just consider yourself lukcy that you actually go to clubs as there will be more swinging going on in clubs that for example online or here on the forums! Happy Swinging to you - and good luck with finding the more adventurous single blokes out there!!! | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When I was in a relationship I found a huge turn on ,my partner fucking someone else,not certainly behind my back! But swoop wasn't my thing!Actually the whole process was draining as the selection of the couple,set the ground rules etc,but was fun in the end. Now when I go to a club as single , I enjoy watching couples,relax in the Jacuzzi and peeping another people having sex and banter very rarely I play. Here the guys focus in one to one sex and they not open to explore new avenues! I know takes time to visit clubs etc! But just sex with a guy in my vie isn't swinging right? Sorry if isn't perfect English I am foreigner.Thankyou " I dont class myself as a swingers I'm a single woman meeting single men for sex To me thats just two people having sex it dont need another label Even when i meet for 3sums or do gang bangs i still don't see myself as a swingers, who am i swinging with? i just meeting by myself for sex Everybody see's things different, some like the idea of living the 'swinging lifestyle' so will happily embrase the label where as i just see what i do for what it is | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When I was in a relationship I found a huge turn on ,my partner fucking someone else,not certainly behind my back! But swoop wasn't my thing!Actually the whole process was draining as the selection of the couple,set the ground rules etc,but was fun in the end. Now when I go to a club as single , I enjoy watching couples,relax in the Jacuzzi and peeping another people having sex and banter very rarely I play. Here the guys focus in one to one sex and they not open to explore new avenues! I know takes time to visit clubs etc! But just sex with a guy in my vie isn't swinging right? Sorry if isn't perfect English I am foreigner.Thankyou " Then Black Temptation I'm confusing. Let's have sex. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I alway thought swinging was basically a couple including others in their sex life in some way. Or even sexual activity with more than two people at the same time. But it seems have to now become a kinda catch all for everything really, which is why people are getting confused. " We go to clubs, make friends enjoy a night out with adults, have a laugh and on occasions a bit of thr other. First and foremost is a good cheap fun night out. Sex is not at the top of the list. If you want to call us swingers then go ahead. Whats in a name anyway? | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Sorry to sound harsh but that's patently nonsense. Words only have meaning so far as they have a common understanding. If everyone defines swinging differently then the word ceases to be useful. I think OP is correct. A single girl and a single guy having sex one on one are not swinging. A married woman and a single guy would be if they have the husbands consent. If they don't, it's just cheating. Well I disagree - we can't exclude single people from the swinging world, and there's a whole spectrum of different relationships out there. Are you saying only married people can swing for instance? What about fuck buddy "couples" for that matter? What happens when there's two single males and a single female and they all like playing with one another? It's much better to start defining it in positive terms such as respect, friendship, fun and having a liberal attitude to things. I am not saying I'm right, but I am contributing because I do agree with the first paragraph I quoted, and rather sit back and be apathetic I wanted to express what swinging means to me. " Having a threesome is not necessarily swinging. About 40% of people try threesomes, most don't do it many times. Swinging is a much smaller group. You can try and make a broad definition that pretends it's a mainstream activity, but that's just dillusional to be honest. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To all the people saying "why do we need labels?" - because that's what words are. We label things so we can communicate with a common understanding. If you make the definitions broad enough then you start talking like politicians and nobody can understand a damn sentence that you say. Also, why is it a problem for the OP to ask a question about labels anyway? If labels annoy you then go join a kiss, fuck, avoid threads " TFFT. Labels are what let you buy a tin of tomatoes at the supermarket and a tin of pedigree chum for your dog. I'm glad there are labels. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"When I was in a relationship I found a huge turn on ,my partner fucking someone else,not certainly behind my back! But swoop wasn't my thing!Actually the whole process was draining as the selection of the couple,set the ground rules etc,but was fun in the end. Now when I go to a club as single , I enjoy watching couples,relax in the Jacuzzi and peeping another people having sex and banter very rarely I play. Here the guys focus in one to one sex and they not open to explore new avenues! I know takes time to visit clubs etc! But just sex with a guy in my vie isn't swinging right? Sorry if isn't perfect English I am foreigner.Thankyou Swinging is many things to many people but most of all it is what you want it to be. Sorry to sound harsh but that's patently nonsense. Words only have meaning so far as they have a common understanding. If everyone defines swinging differently then the word ceases to be useful. I think OP is correct. A single girl and a single guy having sex one on one are not swinging. A married woman and a single guy would be if they have the husbands consent. If they don't, it's just cheating. " No that is not swinging that is an affair. It has been happening for centuries. The definition of swinging that some people have a hard on for involves two people of a different sex married in the eyes of God and the Law having heterosexual sex with the lawfully wedded partner of a similar couple. Once you get away from that definition the term swinging becomes inclusive. However that definition is not correct see extract from the Urban Dictionary that says it can be done in a couple but does not need be. The point is the pursuance as lifestyle of sex outside of an established couple. Swinging A lifestyle of non-monogany where sexual relations occur outside the established couple. Swingers tend to refrain from romantic attachments with their outside partners, thus differentiating themselves from PolyAmorists. (apologies to Josie no swings used). | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Let you and I put this to the test, Ozzz. There is a swing and also a bed at AbFab. Next Saturday? Purely for the sake of scientific research xxx" Normally l am always available to conduct horizontal scientific research with you. However l am going to MSD in the evening with a friend, some rope and impact toys so l need to conserve my emotional and physical energy, even having the energy to walk after would help! lol. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Let you and I put this to the test, Ozzz. There is a swing and also a bed at AbFab. Next Saturday? Purely for the sake of scientific research xxx Normally l am always available to conduct horizontal scientific research with you. However l am going to MSD in the evening with a friend, some rope and impact toys so l need to conserve my emotional and physical energy, even having the energy to walk after would help! lol. " You could have just said "No"; I am a big girl now and can handle rejection [ gets ready to key his car ] | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Why does it matter OP lots of different people are on the same site They are in lots of different combinations and want lots of different things. ... Why does a label or definition make a difference as long as people are happy !? " Because language is more important than people's feelings. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Let you and I put this to the test, Ozzz. There is a swing and also a bed at AbFab. Next Saturday? Purely for the sake of scientific research xxx Normally l am always available to conduct horizontal scientific research with you. However l am going to MSD in the evening with a friend, some rope and impact toys so l need to conserve my emotional and physical energy, even having the energy to walk after would help! lol. You could have just said "No"; I am a big girl now and can handle rejection [ gets ready to key his car ]" That's why l use a bicycle lol | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Why does it matter OP lots of different people are on the same site They are in lots of different combinations and want lots of different things. ... Why does a label or definition make a difference as long as people are happy !? Because language is more important than people's feelings. " I am sorry but l have to disagree. Language moves to reflect what people feel. When non gender specific, racist or homophobic language was introduced people laughed now it is common, as is the use of language to create inclusivity. Take the bible that has been regularly revised to make the language accessible because languag use changes and the users have to feel they own it (despite being an atheist l still prefer the King James version, don't smirk Josie). Unlike the French that have the Acadamie Francaise that moderates the French language in England language changes to reflect usage and not by an official organisation. I wince whenever l hear a pundit use 'massive' or 'massively', but that battle is lost. However the truth of the matter will not change opinions. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Why does it matter OP lots of different people are on the same site They are in lots of different combinations and want lots of different things. ... Why does a label or definition make a difference as long as people are happy !? Because language is more important than people's feelings. I am sorry but l have to disagree. Language moves to reflect what people feel. When non gender specific, racist or homophobic language was introduced people laughed now it is common, as is the use of language to create inclusivity. Take the bible that has been regularly revised to make the language accessible because languag use changes and the users have to feel they own it (despite being an atheist l still prefer the King James version, don't smirk Josie). Unlike the French that have the Acadamie Francaise that moderates the French language in England language changes to reflect usage and not by an official organisation. I wince whenever l hear a pundit use 'massive' or 'massively', but that battle is lost. However the truth of the matter will not change opinions. " Interesting examples, thanks for your constructive point. What I meant was the human brain quadrupled in size over the period we evolved language. Other species did not. Without it, we literally would not be humans (there's a label there). So what I mean is, preserving the ability to communicate is more important than protecting the egos of a few snowflakes who can't stand to be put in a category. As I said before, when words have no meaning, our brains with lose their power and we'll all sound like politicians. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Oh goody; we haven't had a thread which dictates what swinging is for ages. Had a quick scan and it would appear that I still have failed to rise into the exclusive higher echelons of being a 'Real Swinger', although I have now learnt a couple of new generalisations that once again preclude membership into the lofty club that hadn't occurred to me or been preached at me previously. One can sit on the side lines and aspire. " Love it | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But just sex with a guy in my vie isn't swinging right?" I agree. Although I wouldn't call us 'swingers' either. That sounds more like the 'lifestyle' type of thing, whereas we just like to fuck about from time to time. | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Another definition from the Oxford Dictionary: swinging ADJECTIVE informal 1 Lively, exciting, and fashionable. ‘a swinging resort’ ‘the Swinging Sixties’ 1.1 Sexually liberated or promiscuous. 1.1 would apply to singles on here I'd say?" Great, so the overwhelming majority of people are swingers then? I guess swinging clubs are packed with millions of libertines every weekend and this site has over 10m users? | |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
Post new Message to Thread |
back to top |