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"Whilst in work today (fem) a colleague brought up that their child had a letter home to advise that a boy in their class was now going to be called a female name & Wear dresses, all class mates where to receive a little talk about acceptance. I & several colleagues thought this was lovely but my colleague was adamant that this 7 yr old too young & their parents should sort them out! I don't have kids, I am bisexual & have friends both cross dressing & transsexual. I tried to explain my reasons for feeling this was ok but couldn't bring myself to say about my own sexuality or explain my club experience of mixing with a fabulously diverse group of people to back up my argument of why a 7 yr old knows his own mind. I feel disappointed in myself for not standing up for myself.. Does anyone else still find it hard to be completely honest about their views & sexuality despite thinking that we should? " Depends how much you care about it? I wouldn't have argued with them, work isn't the time or the place. If they want to make a tit of themselves then let them. But then sexuality isn't a huge part of my identity. I suppose there are other subjects that I would argue about so as I say, it depends how important it is to you. | |||
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"Call me old fashioned but hard for a 7 year old not to get confused and troubled by all this. I have no biases whatsoever but not sure I'd know how to explain all this to a little one." Children are remarkably accepting. When a friend asked their kid to call me by my masculine name and not my feminine name it was just "ok, do I call you uncle now as well instead of auntie?" We agreed he could just call me by my name... Kids just don't care at that age. I would imagine it's a far better age to transition than older. | |||
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" Does anyone else still find it hard to be completely honest about their views & sexuality despite thinking that we should? " Specifically regarding this excellent question, 2 weeks ago I would have said "no, not hard at all. I am who I am and if you don't like it you can f**k off!" And then I went and disappointed myself. We had been out at a club in Milton Keynes and were on our way home the next day whe we stopped at a garage for coffee and pastries. I was the only customer and at the counter were three staff. All young guys (18-23) chatting and joking. I ordered double espressos and we joked about how Muself and the young lady in the car wearing the big sun gigs were clearly on our way home from a late one. 1st Young guy "where did you go out" Me "Milton Keynes" 2nd YG "yeah, which club" Me "oh, I dunno, it was good though" 2nd YG "mate, you need to go to Pink Punters, it's the best club ever" 1st YG "yeah mate, it's a gay club but don't worry about that, it's bloody awesome" 3rd YG "bloody hell, we haven't been since New Years, we need to sort it out" 2nd YG " you should give it a go mate and don't worry about the gays, they're a great laugh" Me "yeah thanks, I'll look it up" I exit and beat myself up all the way home. Why didn't I feel comfortable telling three young guys in a garage I had been out to a gay club. They didn't know me, they didn't care. I would say that I am happy to hold my head high and be seen for exactley who I am in any situation but when taken by surprise, off guard and unprepared, I felt the need to keep that aspect of my nature to myself. I wondered why all the way home and I'm still wondering now. | |||
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" Does anyone else still find it hard to be completely honest about their views & sexuality despite thinking that we should? Specifically regarding this excellent question, 2 weeks ago I would have said "no, not hard at all. I am who I am and if you don't like it you can f**k off!" And then I went and disappointed myself. We had been out at a club in Milton Keynes and were on our way home the next day whe we stopped at a garage for coffee and pastries. I was the only customer and at the counter were three staff. All young guys (18-23) chatting and joking. I ordered double espressos and we joked about how Muself and the young lady in the car wearing the big sun gigs were clearly on our way home from a late one. 1st Young guy "where did you go out" Me "Milton Keynes" 2nd YG "yeah, which club" Me "oh, I dunno, it was good though" 2nd YG "mate, you need to go to Pink Punters, it's the best club ever" 1st YG "yeah mate, it's a gay club but don't worry about that, it's bloody awesome" 3rd YG "bloody hell, we haven't been since New Years, we need to sort it out" 2nd YG " you should give it a go mate and don't worry about the gays, they're a great laugh" Me "yeah thanks, I'll look it up" I exit and beat myself up all the way home. Why didn't I feel comfortable telling three young guys in a garage I had been out to a gay club. They didn't know me, they didn't care. I would say that I am happy to hold my head high and be seen for exactley who I am in any situation but when taken by surprise, off guard and unprepared, I felt the need to keep that aspect of my nature to myself. I wondered why all the way home and I'm still wondering now. " I understand your frustration, but you don't have to be 'out and proud' at every moment. Its ok not to say where you spend time if you don't want to. I was clothes shopping with my partner yesterday,looking for a skirt to complete my new outfit. Lady in the shop assumed the skirt was for my partner, so I said it was actually for me. She wasn't bothered and showed me where the changing room was. On another day I would have happily let M be my foil and not bothered about it. | |||
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"Whilst in work today (fem) a colleague brought up that their child had a letter home to advise that a boy in their class was now going to be called a female name & Wear dresses, all class mates where to receive a little talk about acceptance. I & several colleagues thought this was lovely but my colleague was adamant that this 7 yr old too young & their parents should sort them out! I don't have kids, I am bisexual & have friends both cross dressing & transsexual. I tried to explain my reasons for feeling this was ok but couldn't bring myself to say about my own sexuality or explain my club experience of mixing with a fabulously diverse group of people to back up my argument of why a 7 yr old knows his own mind. I feel disappointed in myself for not standing up for myself.. Does anyone else still find it hard to be completely honest about their views & sexuality despite thinking that we should? " No. Some people still believe the earth is flat. Don't try to fix them it's not worth it. I discuss identity in Conversation but I'm not going to conVince others. | |||
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" Does anyone else still find it hard to be completely honest about their views & sexuality despite thinking that we should? Specifically regarding this excellent question, 2 weeks ago I would have said "no, not hard at all. I am who I am and if you don't like it you can f**k off!" And then I went and disappointed myself. We had been out at a club in Milton Keynes and were on our way home the next day whe we stopped at a garage for coffee and pastries. I was the only customer and at the counter were three staff. All young guys (18-23) chatting and joking. I ordered double espressos and we joked about how Muself and the young lady in the car wearing the big sun gigs were clearly on our way home from a late one. 1st Young guy "where did you go out" Me "Milton Keynes" 2nd YG "yeah, which club" Me "oh, I dunno, it was good though" 2nd YG "mate, you need to go to Pink Punters, it's the best club ever" 1st YG "yeah mate, it's a gay club but don't worry about that, it's bloody awesome" 3rd YG "bloody hell, we haven't been since New Years, we need to sort it out" 2nd YG " you should give it a go mate and don't worry about the gays, they're a great laugh" Me "yeah thanks, I'll look it up" I exit and beat myself up all the way home. Why didn't I feel comfortable telling three young guys in a garage I had been out to a gay club. They didn't know me, they didn't care. I would say that I am happy to hold my head high and be seen for exactley who I am in any situation but when taken by surprise, off guard and unprepared, I felt the need to keep that aspect of my nature to myself. I wondered why all the way home and I'm still wondering now. I understand your frustration, but you don't have to be 'out and proud' at every moment. Its ok not to say where you spend time if you don't want to. I was clothes shopping with my partner yesterday,looking for a skirt to complete my new outfit. Lady in the shop assumed the skirt was for my partner, so I said it was actually for me. She wasn't bothered and showed me where the changing room was. On another day I would have happily let M be my foil and not bothered about it." We have some (vanilla) friends we met on t'internet. We've known them for a couple of years now and they said "you know, when we first met you we thought the only couples who would want to meet up would be swingers who want to have sex with us!" Neither of us could be bothered to explain that actually we are swingers, but swingers aren't looking for sexual relations 100% of the time and do have normal lives. They didn't mean anything by it and taking offence is a choice. | |||
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" Does anyone else still find it hard to be completely honest about their views & sexuality despite thinking that we should? Specifically regarding this excellent question, 2 weeks ago I would have said "no, not hard at all. I am who I am and if you don't like it you can f**k off!" And then I went and disappointed myself. We had been out at a club in Milton Keynes and were on our way home the next day whe we stopped at a garage for coffee and pastries. I was the only customer and at the counter were three staff. All young guys (18-23) chatting and joking. I ordered double espressos and we joked about how Muself and the young lady in the car wearing the big sun gigs were clearly on our way home from a late one. 1st Young guy "where did you go out" Me "Milton Keynes" 2nd YG "yeah, which club" Me "oh, I dunno, it was good though" 2nd YG "mate, you need to go to Pink Punters, it's the best club ever" 1st YG "yeah mate, it's a gay club but don't worry about that, it's bloody awesome" 3rd YG "bloody hell, we haven't been since New Years, we need to sort it out" 2nd YG " you should give it a go mate and don't worry about the gays, they're a great laugh" Me "yeah thanks, I'll look it up" I exit and beat myself up all the way home. Why didn't I feel comfortable telling three young guys in a garage I had been out to a gay club. They didn't know me, they didn't care. I would say that I am happy to hold my head high and be seen for exactley who I am in any situation but when taken by surprise, off guard and unprepared, I felt the need to keep that aspect of my nature to myself. I wondered why all the way home and I'm still wondering now. " I obviously don't know the tone or context, but I know quite a few straight guys who like gay clubs. The main reason is that if you are going out on a Saturday when it'll be busy and you are already married then do you really need to go to the testosterone fuelled clubs full people desperate to full where fights will inevitably break out as the night goes on? I can honestly say I never saw a fight at a gay club, not one where punches were thrown anyway, and it's a much more relaxed atmosphere. | |||
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"Whilst in work today (fem) a colleague brought up that their child had a letter home to advise that a boy in their class was now going to be called a female name & Wear dresses, all class mates where to receive a little talk about acceptance. I & several colleagues thought this was lovely but my colleague was adamant that this 7 yr old too young & their parents should sort them out! I don't have kids, I am bisexual & have friends both cross dressing & transsexual. I tried to explain my reasons for feeling this was ok but couldn't bring myself to say about my own sexuality or explain my club experience of mixing with a fabulously diverse group of people to back up my argument of why a 7 yr old knows his own mind. I feel disappointed in myself for not standing up for myself.. Does anyone else still find it hard to be completely honest about their views & sexuality despite thinking that we should? " Not to pick up on semantics, but the kid isn't going to wear a dress in school are they? Most school uniforms I see are pretty a-sexual trousers and jumper types. | |||
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"Personally I think you could have stood up for the school and the child without having to go into your own sexuality or swinging, I don't even see how the two are related " Not relating it to swinging meant would have liked to explain that I interact with a lot of trans people some of whom are young via the club I help behind the bar in. speaking to trans people, a lot tell me they knew what they wanted to do/be from child hood. Just find it hard to explain how I would know so many trans people. With regards to sexuality just feel if people were more honest about sexuality it would increase acceptance but I couldn't bring myself to say I was despite that  | |||
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" Not to pick up on semantics, but the kid isn't going to wear a dress in school are they? Most school uniforms I see are pretty a-sexual trousers and jumper types. Yes that what part of the issue was the child was going to wear dresses. My colleague thought that was wrong and stated of course all the other kids would laugh. And added that if some "tranny" came and sat in our office she wouldn't be able to keep a straight face. This is what upset me. But I find it hard to defend further when it difficult to explain how you interact with lots of trans people when probably a lot of people don't on a daily basis " But are dresses part of the uniform!? | |||
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"my daughter just doing her teacher training year - ok its at secondary school so children older than 7 but one the male teachers is coming back in september as a female and there doest seem to be a problem - i might argue that a child of 7 is too young to know what it wants but after watching a programme on this subject a few months ago im convinced that some do and pretty sure most parent wouldnt allow this without a lot of serious thought and talks with professionals etc - for myself i have some select friends that know im bi - my kids dont and i see no reason for them to know ...... yet or if ever " Some do know, some will go though a phase. Some people want to cross dress and others want to change sex. I have a lot of empathy with the latter and if they are certain about changing their gender then there are obvious benefits to doing it younger. But a school is not the place for cross dressing in my humble opinion. | |||
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"my daughter just doing her teacher training year - ok its at secondary school so children older than 7 but one the male teachers is coming back in september as a female and there doest seem to be a problem - i might argue that a child of 7 is too young to know what it wants but after watching a programme on this subject a few months ago im convinced that some do and pretty sure most parent wouldnt allow this without a lot of serious thought and talks with professionals etc - for myself i have some select friends that know im bi - my kids dont and i see no reason for them to know ...... yet or if ever " I knew at about 7 or 8 that I was 'not female'. But I sussed out though that the rest of the world wasn't really ready for that. So I just did what I could - convinced my parents I wanted short hair - which gradually got shorter and shorter and was eventually just a boys cut. I refused to wear 'girls' clothes. I would only ever wear jeans, boy cut t shirts, that kind of thing (other than my school uniform, which was fixed as it was a girls schools). I began to identify as a dyke in my early teens because it was the closest I could get to 'male' without raising suspicion. A child of 7 is not too young to know this kind of thing. I'm just pleased the world has changed since I was 7. | |||
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"my daughter just doing her teacher training year - ok its at secondary school so children older than 7 but one the male teachers is coming back in september as a female and there doest seem to be a problem - i might argue that a child of 7 is too young to know what it wants but after watching a programme on this subject a few months ago im convinced that some do and pretty sure most parent wouldnt allow this without a lot of serious thought and talks with professionals etc - for myself i have some select friends that know im bi - my kids dont and i see no reason for them to know ...... yet or if ever Some do know, some will go though a phase. Some people want to cross dress and others want to change sex. I have a lot of empathy with the latter and if they are certain about changing their gender then there are obvious benefits to doing it younger. But a school is not the place for cross dressing in my humble opinion. " You associate cross dressing with sexual pleasure. It isn't about sex for everyone. There's no reason why men shouldn't wear skirts and blouses and women shouldn't wear trousers and ties. There is absolutely no reason why boys shouldn't wear skirts to school and girls shouldn't wear trousers. | |||
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"my daughter just doing her teacher training year - ok its at secondary school so children older than 7 but one the male teachers is coming back in september as a female and there doest seem to be a problem - i might argue that a child of 7 is too young to know what it wants but after watching a programme on this subject a few months ago im convinced that some do and pretty sure most parent wouldnt allow this without a lot of serious thought and talks with professionals etc - for myself i have some select friends that know im bi - my kids dont and i see no reason for them to know ...... yet or if ever Some do know, some will go though a phase. Some people want to cross dress and others want to change sex. I have a lot of empathy with the latter and if they are certain about changing their gender then there are obvious benefits to doing it younger. But a school is not the place for cross dressing in my humble opinion. You associate cross dressing with sexual pleasure. It isn't about sex for everyone. There's no reason why men shouldn't wear skirts and blouses and women shouldn't wear trousers and ties. There is absolutely no reason why boys shouldn't wear skirts to school and girls shouldn't wear trousers." In their personal time I would agree with you, but not in school. Whether you like it or not, a big element of school is conformity so I see it in the same category as hair cuts and piercings. Again, just for people that are happy with the sex they were born with, not for people that want to change. The way it's appropriate to act in a formal setting is not the same as informal. I wouldn't talk politics or religion in a formal setting either, we make compromises on things in a formal setting. We don't express certain views, we dress in certain ways that are expected even if they aren't entirely rational. There's nothing inherently good or bad about a tie, it's just the done thing for a man to wear one in a formal setting. I don't think we can pretend there's no difference between formal and informal and believe it's important for school to reflect the former. | |||
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"I work in a form of residential care. Recently we had someone come to stay with us who shouldn't have been there. Basically he was unable to take care of his own personal needs. He had a fall, and whilst waiting 4 hours for an ambulance to attend to him, he needed to pee. Another resident offered to help him, because as a female staff member, I couldn't. The resident that helped him is bi-sexual. Most of the staff were up in arms that I had allowed a bi-sexual man help another to urinate. He might have got off on it, he might be wanking off now thinking about it. I didn't say anything at the time, as I had my own thoughts on the subject, he shouldn't have helped him, not because of his sexuality, but because he is manipulative and preys on vulnerable people. No body has said that, they are focussing on the fact he is bi-sexual. If I ever thought about coming out in the workplace, I definitely don't now!! " Ironically that would annoy me because it's so Ill-informed and I probably would say something to them. The logic is all over the place, a straight man wouldn't neglect to help his grandmother for fear that it might turn him on. Very immature. | |||
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" In their personal time I would agree with you, but not in school. Whether you like it or not, a big element of school is conformity so I see it in the same category as hair cuts and piercings. Again, just for people that are happy with the sex they were born with, not for people that want to change. The way it's appropriate to act in a formal setting is not the same as informal. I wouldn't talk politics or religion in a formal setting either, we make compromises on things in a formal setting. We don't express certain views, we dress in certain ways that are expected even if they aren't entirely rational. There's nothing inherently good or bad about a tie, it's just the done thing for a man to wear one in a formal setting. I don't think we can pretend there's no difference between formal and informal and believe it's important for school to reflect the former. " Why do we expect girls to wear skirts to school and boys to wear trousers? What about that is inherently 'formal'? | |||
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" In their personal time I would agree with you, but not in school. Whether you like it or not, a big element of school is conformity so I see it in the same category as hair cuts and piercings. Again, just for people that are happy with the sex they were born with, not for people that want to change. The way it's appropriate to act in a formal setting is not the same as informal. I wouldn't talk politics or religion in a formal setting either, we make compromises on things in a formal setting. We don't express certain views, we dress in certain ways that are expected even if they aren't entirely rational. There's nothing inherently good or bad about a tie, it's just the done thing for a man to wear one in a formal setting. I don't think we can pretend there's no difference between formal and informal and believe it's important for school to reflect the former. Why do we expect girls to wear skirts to school and boys to wear trousers? What about that is inherently 'formal'?" Inertia basically, as I said - it's not an entirely rationally based thing. What's inherently formal about a tie! | |||
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" Does anyone else still find it hard to be completely honest about their views & sexuality despite thinking that we should? Specifically regarding this excellent question, 2 weeks ago I would have said "no, not hard at all. I am who I am and if you don't like it you can f**k off!" And then I went and disappointed myself. We had been out at a club in Milton Keynes and were on our way home the next day whe we stopped at a garage for coffee and pastries. I was the only customer and at the counter were three staff. All young guys (18-23) chatting and joking. I ordered double espressos and we joked about how Muself and the young lady in the car wearing the big sun gigs were clearly on our way home from a late one. 1st Young guy "where did you go out" Me "Milton Keynes" 2nd YG "yeah, which club" Me "oh, I dunno, it was good though" 2nd YG "mate, you need to go to Pink Punters, it's the best club ever" 1st YG "yeah mate, it's a gay club but don't worry about that, it's bloody awesome" 3rd YG "bloody hell, we haven't been since New Years, we need to sort it out" 2nd YG " you should give it a go mate and don't worry about the gays, they're a great laugh" Me "yeah thanks, I'll look it up" I exit and beat myself up all the way home. Why didn't I feel comfortable telling three young guys in a garage I had been out to a gay club. They didn't know me, they didn't care. I would say that I am happy to hold my head high and be seen for exactley who I am in any situation but when taken by surprise, off guard and unprepared, I felt the need to keep that aspect of my nature to myself. I wondered why all the way home and I'm still wondering now. I obviously don't know the tone or context, but I know quite a few straight guys who like gay clubs. The main reason is that if you are going out on a Saturday when it'll be busy and you are already married then do you really need to go to the testosterone fuelled clubs full people desperate to full where fights will inevitably break out as the night goes on? I can honestly say I never saw a fight at a gay club, not one where punches were thrown anyway, and it's a much more relaxed atmosphere. " You've obviously never been to Pinks. I've seen fights there! (To be fair there are more straight people than anything else at Pinks though. But it's still a good night out.) | |||
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