FabSwingers.com forum: SHOCK !!- Swinging clubs can

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

no longer discriminate against single guys or couples!

The Equality Act 2010 of which 90%, including this part, came into effect on 1st October 2010 'requires private members clubs to act in a non-discriminatory way. This means that clubs will no longer be able to restrict access to activities or benefits, or apply different conditions or fees' - based on sex (amongst other characteristics). This is very specific.

The definition, for the purposes of the act, of a private members club is a club with over 24 members (that will be every swinging club then!).

This has nothing to do with employers or employment law, which is already covered under current legislation - it covers ANY business that sells goods or services.

From last friday, there can no longer be a cap on the number of single guys in a club, they can't be charged a higher membership or admission fee than a single female.

This could change the business model of most swinging clubs, I would be amazed if club owners are fully aware yet!

http://www.equalities.gov.uk/pdf/401727_GEO-BCC_QuickGuide2_acc.pdf

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think that is only fair, single guys were being discriminated against but........ i feel that the clubs from now on may just find themselves 99% full of guys all just sittin looking at each other wonderin where all the hot ladies are lol

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"no longer discriminate against single guys or couples!

The definition, for the purposes of the act, of a private members club is a club with over 24 members (that will be every swinging club then!).

This has nothing to do with employers or employment law, which is already covered under current legislation - it covers ANY business that sells goods or services.

From last friday, there can no longer be a cap on the number of single guys in a club, they can't be charged a higher membership or admission fee than a single female.

This could change the business model of most swinging clubs, I would be amazed if club owners are fully aware yet!

http://www.equalities.gov.uk/pdf/401727_GEO-BCC_QuickGuide2_acc.pdf"

yeah........ very good in theory..... like to see you try and act that in practice.... you'd be turfed out of swinging clubs up and down the country

unless you want to be the swinging martyr and challenge them all...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Will this also apply to night clubs who offer free entry to women before 10 or 11 o'clock?

Somehow we doubt it.

XXXX

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But club owners & door supervisors can still refuse males entry. They can use any reason other than those covered in the equality or human rights acts.

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

I think the guys have been discriminated against in the past but to not have a cap on who can and can't come into a club could ruin them

Could clubs ditch memberships to allow who they want in to avoid this situation?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I accidently left the question i mean't to pose off the bottom of my post above. If you are a single guy, will it encourage you to go clubbing? If you're a fem will it discourage you?

Clubs will not be able to just refuse people their rights and kick them out or they will be sued and possibly go bust, so they may try to do that initially, but just like race discrimination or sexual discrimination in other areas, litigation and compensation changes behaviours.

It will not encourage me, but I don't really go to swinging clubs.

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By *etillanteWoman
over a year ago

And will a single guy want to take this to court

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We enjoy the couples and single girls nights, and if we wanted a single guy, then we'd know what night to go on. The whole atmosphere of a club changes with each type of night that is run... allowingsingle guy in on every night would put us off going to a club.

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By *heAddamsCouple
over a year ago

corbridge

So which single guy is going to sue the swingers club that charged him more than a couple?

And get his face plastered across all of the tabloid press as a "pervert"?

We go to clubs on a regular basis. If it got to the point of being more single males than couples, then we would stop going.

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

I love single guys but I feel there would be some frustrated and unhappy guys in clubs with very few people of the opposite sex to play with

I can only do so much before I fall asleep with exhaustion you know!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Clubs can limit the numbers attending by just using Health and Safety Regs, ie Fire Regs.

Landlords can serve, and refuse to serve who they want to in pubs. I think membership fees should be the same for singles regardless of what sex you are, but if they don't want you to go in, I can't see how you can force them to let you in

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A club with a max attendance of say 400 people could admit 150 couples and 50 guys and 50 ladies. Once there was 50 guys in they would not be discriminating against men by not letting anymore in, even if there were no singles in on that night.

Nothing needs to change except that the fees need to be the same for guys and ladies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Aren't there some private clubs like gentleman's clubs and golf or cricket cluns that still don't admit women unless they are serving drinks or food?!! I am going to start a sufferage movement or did my great grandmother get there before me??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A club with a max attendance of say 400 people could admit 150 couples and 50 guys and 50 ladies. Once there was 50 guys in they would not be discriminating against men by not letting anymore in, even if there were no single ladies in on that night.

Nothing needs to change except that the fees need to be the same for guys and ladies

just amended the typo

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" well its like this your honour.. I was refused entry into the swingers club because i am a man!"

" they said the same to me too... Court finds in favour of prosecution!"

Lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe I aint read it right... but I cant see where its discrimanatory to stop a guy going into a club (or a fem for that matter) soley on the fact he has turned up alone. Its not sexual discrimination is it? Cant be.... as they are letting males in that are part of a couple.

What am I missing?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So which single guy is going to sue the swingers club that charged him more than a couple?

And get his face plastered across all of the tabloid press as a "pervert"

not to mention his wife finding out where he was when he was playing darts n dominoes lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe I aint read it right... but I cant see where its discrimanatory to stop a guy going into a club (or a fem for that matter) soley on the fact he has turned up alone. Its not sexual discrimination is it? Cant be.... as they are letting males in that are part of a couple.

What am I missing?

I agree, it can't be sexual discrimination, but there is a definate case if single guys are charged more than single ladies.

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By *iamondladyWoman
over a year ago

titsville

Nothing needs to change except that the fees need to be the same for guys and ladies

I think you'll find that you that your plan wouldn't work in a business sense. Swinging clubs make their money from the single guys memberships and entry fees which are high to allow only the serious guys. The current fees for single ladies are low or free to encourage them into the club. The ladies attract the males or keep them coming.

If you increase the fees of single ladies to that of the males they won't or can't afford to attend. If u reduce the fees to that of the females then the club doesn't make money and closes everyone looses.

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Northants

"Sorry you can't come in because you didn't book! If you had tried to book, you would have found out it is a private party and by invitation only!"

If that is lillegal, then no one would be able to book a hall for a wedding without suffering the gate crashers!

But, if single guys have to be allowed in on any night the club is open, we would just stop going! (or rather not go back again as we giving clubs a rest at the moment) However, I do think that clubs should charge all singles the same entrance, male or female!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nothing needs to change except that the fees need to be the same for guys and ladies

They could be couples only clubs then. Single guys could team up with single ladies. There are ways around any rule

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By *tevelizCouple
over a year ago

northampton

i can see this working itself out. When the couple stop going to what were couples nights, then the single men will stop going. Unless they just want to sit there with only other men. And yes i know some couples do like single men.

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By *iamondladyWoman
over a year ago

titsville

[Removed by poster at 06/10/10 22:36:01]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

great that obviously means an end to other such clubs exclusively for women

But before you all rejoice, many clubs have an adequate number of single male members on thier books to be able to disregard the rule, take Chameleons for instance, they have thousands of male members, some have not been to the club for over 8 years.

The same applies to the number of couples they have as members, now I am not totally foolish and if it was my club I would cancel the memberships of any couple that had not been for 10 years then 9 years then 8 years without cancelling any of the male memberships until I got the balance right in the books.

Perfectly legal since they are all members who have joined and signed up for the club.

And if clubs don't do it and are forced to allow more single males into the clubs at certain times the guys are going to come off 2nd best, there are only so many couples to go round, more men will be paying to get in (clubs win) less men will get to play (men lose)

Would you go to a club that had 20 couples inside and 150 guys ?

I live in the real world not the world of PC Politicians and campaigners.

Clubs could lose though if the number of single males in a club drove away the couples - would you go to a club that was only full of men ?

There is another way round the law, if a club has to allow the same number of men as they do women, give all couples a membership in ONLY the female partners name but allow her to take a male (non-member guest in with her) then you will have lots of single male members and lot's of female members albeit that the female members happen to have a man with them.

They still hunt foxes don't they

OK spent 4 minutes doing this since I read the OP's (important) post, wonder what a clever club owner do with more time and his solicitors

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i hope this doesnt affect club rules, i know this may sound odd as i am a single male but i hate nights when thier are loads of guys. hence why i always go on a weekend

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Aren't there some private clubs like gentleman's clubs and golf or cricket cluns that still don't admit women unless they are serving drinks or food?!! I am going to start a sufferage movement or did my great grandmother get there before me?? "

Your absolutely right, this is why the new legislation has been put in place with the specific section referring to 'private members clubs'. Lawmakers were determined to close the loophole that existed for gentleman clubs, golf clubs etc (i dont think they had swinging clubs in mind at the time lol).

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By *ornyandnymphoCouple
over a year ago

poole

They will find a way around it, like many have with the disability discrimination act.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

What am I missing?

I think your right in one aspect Steve, it would not be against the law to make it a couples only club. If you exclude single men then you must exclude single women.

BUT if two men turn up and say they are a couple, you would have to let them in because you cannot discriminate between mixed sex and same sex couples...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe we would have to book in advance, then the club can keep an eye on the ratios and adjust.

As many have said, just needs a pot of tea and some thinking and a solution will be found

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By *lubPartyPeepsCouple
over a year ago

London

A members only club will be able to use any numbers of reasons to refuse admittance, in the same way a cinema or a pub has the right to refuse anyone on their premises that they see fit, so this won't change anything.

If it was enforced what would happen is a huge percentage of couples would never go out on the club scene, the mixed nights would be over run, the ratio would go crazy, then people who didn't like that ratio would stop going and clubs would become the last refuge of the desperate, a bit like RIOs on a Tuesday night, LOL

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By *eakcoupleCouple
over a year ago

peak district

yes, love to see a single guy a. having the guts and b. having the money to take this to court. lawyers must be rubbing their hands together at the thought of their huge fees from this idiotic act. the coalition will probably repeal it in the next couple of years, anyway.

we don't go clubbing on singles' nights to avoid predatory men, so if couples nights ended we'd just stick to home swinging.

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By *it of fun cplCouple
over a year ago

village between York and Hull

Swingers clubs will still carry on as they do. One we went to still allows smoking in the main bar area!!!

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

"I love single guys but I feel there would be some frustrated and unhappy guys in clubs with very few people of the opposite sex to play with

I can only do so much before I fall asleep with exhaustion you know!!!

Fancy that, if you saved playing with me till the last guy of the day, we'd be well matched.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"Swingers clubs will still carry on as they do. One we went to still allows smoking in the main bar area!!!"

must be a very small club then and I take it that its one of the following:

Designated smoking rooms are allowed in adult care homes, psychiatric facilities, hotels, detention facilities, and offshore installations. where is this club? lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Swingers clubs will still carry on as they do. One we went to still allows smoking in the main bar area!!!

must be a very small club then and I take it that its one of the following:

Designated smoking rooms are allowed in adult care homes, psychiatric facilities, hotels, detention facilities, and offshore installations. where is this club? lol"

I think I know which club it is....and yes it is quite small!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Nothing needs to change except that the fees need to be the same for guys and ladies

just amended the typo

To understand the reason a quota will not work we probably have to stop looking at this through just swingers eyes. Imagine the swinging club is a shop or a pub, if an individual starts to enter the premises they cannot be barred entry SOLELY on the fact that they are a women or a man. It is irrelevant how many men or women are already in the shop. It would be like saying to a disabled person 'we can't let you in because we already have 10 other disabled people in here' and then letting an able bodied person in.

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

We're seeing some friends tomorrow that own a club,ill ask them what they think of the new legislation and if they have any plans to acommodate it

I think I kknow what they'll say before I even ask the question

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think this could cause real trouble if it is implemented.

So can clubs not have "couples only" nights any more?

And what about entry fees?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They been watching Little Britain.......

DO also ensure that mothers breastfeeding babies

are not discriminated against, no matter how old the

baby is.

.........bitty

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"" well its like this your honour.. I was refused entry into the swingers club because i am a man!"

" they said the same to me too... Court finds in favour of prosecution!"

Lol"

you win funniest swinger at 17:01 on October the 2010 competition..

Jay-ne-us.

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

Cheshire and London

"I think the guys have been discriminated against in the past but to not have a cap on who can and can't come into a club could ruin them

Could clubs ditch memberships to allow who they want in to avoid this situation?

Not having a membership could cause problem with local authority licencing, having a private members club and not having a membership could get them closed down.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think this could cause real trouble if it is implemented.

So can clubs not have "couples only" nights any more?

And what about entry fees? "

In my opinion 'couples only' nights are safe. Single women will not be allowed entry if single men are not also allowed entry on an equal footing. You CAN still discriminate against someone being single.......Phew! I hear many of you saying lol. (I think the new business models adopted by many clubs will possibly have this as the backbone).

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

Cheshire and London

Problem with this idea is that you would also have to let single men bring a guest too and that could be another male! If not under this law you would be discriminating against the man again!

While I'm sure that there are was around the law, owners many need to tread carefully and this can also include doormen too, piss someone off and I'm sure there's someone willing to take them to court.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think that is only fair, single guys were being discriminated against but........ i feel that the clubs from now on may just find themselves 99% full of guys all just sittin looking at each other wonderin where all the hot ladies are lol

you mean ladies go to the clubs as well , , i thought it was just us singles,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/10/10 17:30:05]

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

Cheshire and London

"In my opinion 'couples only' nights are safe. Single women will not be allowed entry if single men are not also allowed entry on an equal footing. You CAN still discriminate against someone being single.......Phew! I hear many of you saying lol. (I think the new business models adopted by many clubs will possibly have this as the backbone). "

This could be true only allowing couples in does not discriminate against males or females, by it's own nature there will be equal amounts of men and women.

The problem comes due to the business model clubs have been using,that they charge single guys loads more for entry, so owners will either have to up the price of single women and couples to make a level playing field, which will the mean less couple attending when paying more! or reduce the price for single guys, problem with that they used those has a 'Cash Cow' and reducing single guys membership and entry fees will hit their profit margins!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think this could be very thorny.

Because if I was a single lady one week getting in for free or a much reduced fee, I wouldnt be happy to have to pay the much higher entry fee.

It could just put the ladies off from attending because of the price.

Plan B would be to lower the price for single guys but how would the clubs make enough money to continue?

Tricky one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

AAAH but is this dicrimination or market forces?????????

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

The difference in entry fees is that way for a number of reasons... not just to fleece the guys.

If some guy wants to force a club to change their pricing... he may not have a club to go to for much longer.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

This could be true only allowing couples in does not discriminate against males or females, by it's own nature there will be equal amounts of men and women.

Don't forget that a 'couples night' cannot be exclusively heterosexual, two guys as a couple must also be allowed entry or that is also discrimination.

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

Cheshire and London

Just looking at a couple of club websites and you can see what could be a big whole in their margins. their are quite a few charging £50 per year membership to single guys and giving free membership to single ladies and most charging $10 - £15 per couple for lifetime membership! So if you only got 100 single guys you could be loosing £5000 per year on membership alone unless you start levelling the playing field across the group!

But that's where the problem start, there is already too many guys wanting memberships, will single ladies pay more? and couples could even be worse, has they may have to pay more than singles, has there would be argument that if you charged couples the same then in fact you where giving the female free membership! also could two guys claim to be a couple etc.. but we will see I'm sure someone will test this, if only because they have fell out with the clubs owners!!!!

(glad we don't go to clubs, already see them has a rip off..lol)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But club owners & door supervisors can still refuse males entry. They can use any reason other than those covered in the equality or human rights acts. "

Matt is a door supervisor, the law is that he doesn't even need a reason to refuse you.

many times he's he's just said "sorry, not tonight"

following that practice means discrimination can never be proven you just don't explain why you're refusing entry simple as that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We read about this new law coming into action last week, and have ourselfs decided that it is a fair rule.

Why should people be discriminated against ??? regardless of sexuallity, gender, race or for any reason at all.

Yes there will be them in this room or chat that say "yes you have charged different prices for different people in the past",

and now your "hypocrites", well we would like to say when we got involved in our partys, we looked at priceing at various venues that offered similar, and we have to admit "yes" we did follow suit with similar pricing for different genders, but we can say we have never agreed with membership prices, as "why should anyone pay anything" when you are paying to enter, and we give free membership to all that attend our partys.

Therefore we are going to stick with this new law, and all our future partys will be equal price for all people that attend, to which we will not raise prices for anyone apart from single females "sorry ladies".Nothing against you so please dont sue lol.

But either way we would have to raise the price for single females or we would have to let everyone in for free, and to be honest how many single ladies actually attend clubs, as with all clubs single fems are a very small percentage as most of us say "that elusive single fem".

But the rise of charges to single females will still be minimul, to which in our partys we dont see an issue, as we can see many single females making arangements with single gents and coming in to clubs to enter as a couple,

to which more single guys might get more meets lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We wouldn't go if it was too many guys as it now would put some cpls off

"We enjoy the couples and single girls nights, and if we wanted a single guy, then we'd know what night to go on. The whole atmosphere of a club changes with each type of night that is run... allowingsingle guy in on every night would put us off going to a club."

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"But club owners & door supervisors can still refuse males entry. They can use any reason other than those covered in the equality or human rights acts.

Matt is a door supervisor, the law is that he doesn't even need a reason to refuse you.

many times he's he's just said "sorry, not tonight"

following that practice means discrimination can never be proven you just don't explain why you're refusing entry simple as that"

This has been successfully challenged in the past. A black guy successfully sued a club that denied him and a friend entry. He proved that other people were admitted after he was turned away, he was teetotal and it was deemed that the reason for refusing him entry was racially motivated.

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By *andcCouple
over a year ago

Cheshire and London

following that practice means discrimination can never be proven you just don't explain why you're refusing entry simple as that"

Yes you don't have to give a reason why you're not allowed entry, but with this new law something different applies, before if you sent 30 guys away it made no difference, but say a council want to revoke a licence but needs an excuse, so they start watching the place(this couls also be done by private detectives trying to prove a owner was not following the law) and 50 single guys are refused entry but no single females or couples! then this may be challenged in a court!

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

I have lost count of the guys who have told me they have always wanted to go to a club for the experience of it.... yet when they are asked why haven't you been already they reply "I'm not paying that much without being sure of some action".

IMHO, after talking to this sort of guy for a few messages, it soon becomes clear that the higher prices for guys does help keep some of the knobheads away.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"We read about this new law coming into action last week, and have ourselfs decided that it is a fair rule.

Why should people be discriminated against ??? regardless of sexuallity, gender, race or for any reason at all.

Yes there will be them in this room or chat that say "yes you have charged different prices for different people in the past",

to which more single guys might get more meets lol."

I dont think your hypocrites, by adapting your business model so quickly to the reality of changes in the macro environment, you strike me as being very astute.

Business' that survive in any marketplace are those that can best adapt to change.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We read about this new law coming into action last week, and have ourselfs decided that it is a fair rule.

Why should people be discriminated against ??? regardless of sexuallity, gender, race or for any reason at all.

Yes there will be them in this room or chat that say "yes you have charged different prices for different people in the past",

to which more single guys might get more meets lol."

So from what your saying we can safely assume that you are registered with the local council for your venue to hold parties, that you have a VAT number, that the Fire authorities have carried out a fire inspection, you have public indemnity insurance, and that your kitchens on the premises have passed the health and safety standards (stainless steel worksurfaces, 2 sinks, 2 fridges, 2 freezers and all that stuff, and lastly that you have paid this years £50,000 tax for owning an adult venue.

That done I have to hold my hat up to you for following the law, oh hang on, you don't charge membership, yet you hold private adult parties, you do realise the law states that for any person to be on the premises of paid venues then you MUST charge a membership fee, record thier personal details and check thier identification ?

This does not apply to private parties of course where no entry fee is charged.

So by not charging membership fees you are breaking the law, did your post mention the words hypocrits and discrimination in the post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

this venue is already a established swinging venue and as been for ages, as a hotel we do hav to meet all the requirements for fire safety health reg license for bar and so all vat reg and legal to reply to your post ok if you,d like to know more we,ll quiet happily put you on to the owner and he,ll answer all your question, it isnt a club its a hotel so there for no membership required which is good for discretion purposes as in any hotel you do not hav to provide id to stay ther like we didnt when we stayed at your b&b in darlston when we stayed with you both and went to chams with you ????? and we,d like to ask is that legal and all above board if your goin to through stone in a glass house as im sure they,d of been some fire regs was you vat reg, resteired with the council?? im sure you wasnt as we hav owned and lived in hotels in blackpool most of our growing lives i know your place wasnt legal to allow guest to stay with you at a charge, so in future id keep my mouth shut if you dont know full details of the venue and to avoid being hyprocites yourselfs thanks gav tina

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hate to say it but if its enforced swinging clubs may well die off. Which couples will really want to attend with it being packed with single males every night. I just hope it all doesn't implode.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I hate to say it but if its enforced swinging clubs may well die off. Which couples will really want to attend with it being packed with single males every night. I just hope it all doesn't implode."

Id think all my christmas' had come at once if club was packed with single guys

lol

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"I hate to say it but if its enforced swinging clubs may well die off. Which couples will really want to attend with it being packed with single males every night. I just hope it all doesn't implode.

Id think all my christmas' had come at once if club was packed with single guys

lol"

Just remember ... it will be packed with the tight fisted guys who thought it wasn't worth £40 to use a club.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Has there ever been a shortage of single guys wanting to go to swingers clubs? NO, not that I can remember anyway.

Who benefits from the changes in the law.... oh single guys, the very group there are plenty of in the first place. Many clubs having waiting lists for single male membership.

If this change in the law is enforced in swinging clubs I can see one route the clubs could be forced to take..... make it COUPLES ONLY every night.

The couples who only like to be around other couples will love it.

But everyone else loses...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I have lost count of the guys who have told me they have always wanted to go to a club for the experience of it.... yet when they are asked why haven't you been already they reply "I'm not paying that much without being sure of some action".

IMHO, after talking to this sort of guy for a few messages, it soon becomes clear that the higher prices for guys does help keep some of the knobheads away."

Just for clarification, what is it that makes these guys 'knobheads'? Is it the content in the personal messages they send you or is it the fact that they are not willing to pay an excessive entrance fee because they do not see value?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this venue is already a established swinging venue and as been for ages, as a hotel we do hav to meet all the requirements for fire safety health reg license for bar and so all vat reg and legal to reply to your post ok if you,d like to know more we,ll quiet happily put you on to the owner and he,ll answer all your question, it isnt a club its a hotel so there for no membership required which is good for discretion purposes as in any hotel you do not hav to provide id to stay ther like we didnt when we stayed at your b&b in darlston when we stayed with you both and went to chams with you ????? and we,d like to ask is that legal and all above board if your goin to through stone in a glass house as im sure they,d of been some fire regs was you vat reg, resteired with the council?? im sure you wasnt as we hav owned and lived in hotels in blackpool most of our growing lives i know your place wasnt legal to allow guest to stay with you at a charge, so in future id keep my mouth shut if you dont know full details of the venue and to avoid being hyprocites yourselfs thanks gav tina "

Well that told me, I merely pointed out the rules when you said "it is wrong for people to charge memberships for parties they attend"

Your statement could make people think that they were being ripped off by venue owners when they unlike me are simply abiding by the law and should not be chastised for doing so.

I stand by what I said.

Buddies is an Adult Venue for parties and accommodation just the same as Liberty Elite, Chameleons and many other venues and therefore comes under the same rules.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

IMHO, after talking to this sort of guy for a few messages, it soon becomes clear that the higher prices for guys does help keep some of the knobheads away.

It is because they only see it as an excessive fee because they are not on a sure thing for a shag.

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

Are all swinging clubs 'private members clubs' though - I don't think they are so these 'rules' won't apply - I know single guys have to pay a lot more than couples etc but they aren't forced in through the doors! Z

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

If single guys are moaning because they have to pay more for entry to clubs...they are sure as hell going to be moaning even more when all the clubs change to Couples only.....

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Ill be bloody moaning too if all clubs change to couples only

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

I wonder how many here scream for equality in every thing else in life..I mean come on..so there maybe changes to your life style choices....get over it and adapt.. it's sound like single guys are all predators and will harass couples and prevent them from enjoying themselves..life always finds away to survive and so will swingers...how do the people who smoke cope with the smoking ban in clubs? you just do if you still want to go..or you don't go..

Another way of looking at this is single men fund the clubs and they probably don't get to play half as much as couples....and that's fair?

I'm sure some clever so an so will come up with a fix! we are very resourceful and inventive as a species! lol

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

IMHO, after talking to this sort of guy for a few messages, it soon becomes clear that the higher prices for guys does help keep some of the knobheads away.

It is because they only see it as an excessive fee because they are not on a sure thing for a shag."

That's interesting. Do you think that maybe in some cases that the excessive fee creates the expectation of sex? Maybe it's difficult for some to see the value in an excessive fee to sit around in a social area. Does the entrance fee being high imply 'a shag' to some?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a single guy the only discrimination I feel is over the prices charged for membership and entry.

Having a couples only night is in a way fair as it allows newbie couples a calmer environment to start of in. As they become more confident they can move onto the mixed nights.

As for capping the number of single males in a club, I'm happy with that, those of us that enjoy the nights and are respectful would ensure they turn up on time or book ahead. I'll agree that it puts the kibosh on any last minute planning, but you can't have everything. But even as a singlie there's nothing worse than seeing a couple being trailed by a dozen blokes.

So apart from the prices I'd prefer to see it stay the way it is and I am sure that in your membership agreement, it can be written in that you agree to the clubs rules. If you don't agree with them you don't have to join.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"...how do the people who smoke cope with the smoking ban in clubs?"

They have smoking areas..... no need to cope.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Compared to many clubs on the continent single guys are very lucky here in the UK, often single guys in French clubs for instance have to attend an interview/s in order to get on the 'standby' list to attend clubs and organised party circuits.

In fact there is at least one party circuit here in the UK that already has this arrangement for single guys, and this will become more and more common.

If clubs were to operate an open door policy then single guys would far outnumber couples and single females, what would eventually happen is that the number of couples and females attending would diminish.....surely not good all round?

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Yes in a few cases (no matter what the fee) some people think they are paying to play.

They don't understand thay are paying to use the facilities.... to be around other like minded people... to enjoy the experience of the place and the rest is just a bonus.

All in all, compared to some night club prices... it isn't an excessive entry fee... it's just more than the couples and single females.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"Are all swinging clubs 'private members clubs' though - I don't think they are so these 'rules' won't apply - I know single guys have to pay a lot more than couples etc but they aren't forced in through the doors! Z"

this will effect all private members clubs including golf clubs...they to charge different fees for men and women..any golfers here?

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"...how do the people who smoke cope with the smoking ban in clubs?

They have smoking areas..... no need to cope."

the point is they find a way...which is fair to all....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

this will effect all private members clubs including golf clubs...they to charge different fees for men and women..any golfers here?

I'm a golfer (ok I admitted it) and was told months back that this legislation was coming in.

The place I was a member of has had to change it's rules on fees (previously charged the ladies quite a bit less than the guys) and access (in the past the ladies could only play on certain days/times).

This has been in the pipeline for a while.

Btw I'd be all in favour of an interview to screen out "knobheads". Don't Chameleons do that already?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Yes in a few cases (no matter what the fee) some people think they are paying to play.

They don't understand thay are paying to use the facilities.... to be around other like minded people... to enjoy the experience of the place and the rest is just a bonus.

All in all, compared to some night club prices... 'it isn't an excessive entry fee'... it's just more than the couples and single females.

In that case I think we have come up with the solution!

If high prices stop the 'undesirable' element of single guys attending clubs and this is seen as necessary to protect the status quo, and if it is accepted that 'it isn't an excessive entry fee' because it gives fair value by providing the use of the facilities to be around other like minded people......then keep the prices high. Just make sure that single women have to also pay the high prices. I'm sure they can also see the value....

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

[Removed by poster at 08/10/10 13:21:44]

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

That will open a can of worms lol

We were going to swinging clubs before we joined any sites

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

this will effect all private members clubs including golf clubs...they to charge different fees for men and women..any golfers here?

I'm a golfer (ok I admitted it) and was told months back that this legislation was coming in.

This has been in the pipeline for a while.

Btw I'd be all in favour of an interview to screen out "knobheads". Don't Chameleons do that already?"

and is your club in danger of closing? i think not! you may loose some but you gain others I'm sure..and screening is a good idea maybe only peeps off swing sites who have genuine verifications! lol oh and pics! lol opens another can of worms!

the point is it's coming/come in and we need to accept it..I'm sure the owners will have ideas in the pipelines lol

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

In that case I think we have come up with the solution!

If a woman's brain worked the same as a man's you might be right.

If women weren't generally in lower paid jobs, you'd be right.

If women didn't generally have tighter budgets because of looking after the kids, you'd be right.

If many women didn't already have to pay for childcare before they even get to the club, you may be right.

If there were as many women wanting to go to a club as there were men, you'd be on to something.

If women couldn't get layed at the drop of a hat anyway without going to a club..... well yeah you might be right.

The price differential alone does not keep the dickheads away... it's just one of many things which help to reduce the numbers.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

I'm pretty sure I am right in saying that the majority of single guys that attend clubs are damn glad single ladies are actively encouraged into joining clubs and would hate to see anything implemented that would deter them from attending in even greater numbers.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

this will effect all private members clubs including golf clubs...they to charge different fees for men and women..any golfers here?

I'm a golfer (ok I admitted it) and was told months back that this legislation was coming in.

This has been in the pipeline for a while.

Btw I'd be all in favour of an interview to screen out "knobheads". Don't Chameleons do that already?

the point is it's coming/come in and we need to accept it..I'm sure the owners will have ideas in the pipelines lol"

one other thing..how many here use this site because it's free and would run a mile if they charged like some others do and will this affect the difference they charge too? some are happy to be site supporters and some wont part with a bean!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/10/10 13:36:47]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"That will open a can of worms lol

We were going to swinging clubs before we joined any sites"

Possibly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have to wonder if this equality will be extended to other areas

Cheap car insurance for ladies

Cheap car insurance and home insurance for over 50s

Ladies Nights at nightclubs

Ladies getting free entry to nightclubs or cheaper drinks before a certain time

Ladies only fitness centres

Gay saunas refusing entry to women

Specific car parking spaces for single women

Baby changing rooms that only allow women to use them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

this will effect all private members clubs including golf clubs...they to charge different fees for men and women..any golfers here?

I'm a golfer (ok I admitted it) and was told months back that this legislation was coming in.

This has been in the pipeline for a while.

Btw I'd be all in favour of an interview to screen out "knobheads". Don't Chameleons do that already?

the point is it's coming/come in and we need to accept it..I'm sure the owners will have ideas in the pipelines lol"

No it wont be closing. In fact they have taken on quite a few new members because they have adapted and got rid of rules at the golf club that many thought were old fashioned.

The ladies now pay the same as the guys so they make more money not less. The fees for the ladies went up about £250.

I dont think not adapting was an option though as it's the law.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

The thing is... at the golf club the men don't hang around in gangs of 20+ with their cocks out following the ladies to the green.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The thing is... at the golf club the men don't hang around in gangs of 20+ with their cocks out following the ladies to the green."

You'd be surprised what goes off at the annual dinner dance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have to wonder if this equality will be extended to other areas

Cheap car insurance for ladies

Cheap car insurance and home insurance for over 50s

Ladies Nights at nightclubs

Ladies getting free entry to nightclubs or cheaper drinks before a certain time

Ladies only fitness centres

Gay saunas refusing entry to women

Specific car parking spaces for single women

Baby changing rooms that only allow women to use them

as far as we know which isnt alot due to everything legal is mind boggling it would hav to change for cheap ladies insurance and for ladies nights and gentlemen clubs social clubs all assionations now will hav to treat all the same in pricing and equal

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By *iamondladyWoman
over a year ago

titsville

"I'm pretty sure I am right in saying that the majority of single guys that attend clubs are damn glad single ladies are actively encouraged into joining clubs and would hate to see anything implemented that would deter them from attending in even greater numbers.

Your dam right with that comment! I think u need to regular attend a club to understand how things work rather than looking at from a morality point of view. Things are no always fair in life sometimes it is just the way it is or so I've been lead to believe.

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By *iamondladyWoman
over a year ago

titsville

Yes in a few cases (no matter what the fee)

some people think they are paying to play.

They don't understand thay are paying to use the facilities.... to be around other like minded people... to enjoy the experience of the place and the rest is just a bonus.

All in all, compared to some night club prices... 'it isn't an excessive entry fee'... it's just more than the couples and single females.

In that case I think we have come up with the solution!

If high prices stop the 'undesirable' element of single guys attending clubs and this is seen as necessary to protect the status quo, and if it is accepted that 'it isn't an excessive entry fee'

because it gives fair value by providing the use of the facilities to be around other like minded people......then keep the prices high. Just make sure that single women have to also pay the high prices. I'm sure they can also see the value.... "

You can tell that you don't regularly attend swinging clubs and don't understand how they work.

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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago

sandwell

If any single guys out there think this means they will get into clubs cheaper then at best they are naive. just look what happened when men successfully campaigned to get their free OAP bus pass at the same time as women. They simply uped the minimum age for women up to the same as men. Nobody won.

Clubs will adopt the same policy. All singles will pay the same rate as single men do now. Few single women will go so there will be less to 'go around' for the single guys. Nobody will win.

Of course it will be easier for the single female. They will simply pick an escort from the available single guys and get in at the couples rate.

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By *iamondladyWoman
over a year ago

titsville

"We read about this new law coming into action last week, and have ourselfs decided that it is a fair rule.

Why should people be discriminated against ??? regardless of sexuallity, gender, race or for any reason at all.

Yes there will be them in this room or chat that say "yes you have charged different prices for

different people in the past",

membership prices, as "why should anyone pay anything" when you are paying to enter, and we give free membership to all that attend our partys.

Therefore we are going to stick with this new law, and all our future partys will be equal price for all

people that attend, to which we will not raise prices for anyone apart from single females "sorry ladies".Nothing against you so please dont sue lol.

to which more single guys might get more meets lol."

Sorry to hear that you don't get many single fems attend your parties/clubs. Obviously you aren't looking to attract any for your other party goers either.

Other clubs like Chameleons have loads of single fems attend and encourage them and look after them as with lots of single fems the guys and couples are both happy!

Everyone wins.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"The thing is... at the golf club the men don't hang around in gangs of 20+ with their cocks out following the ladies to the green."

clearly never been to a diner dance or a sportsmen s evening! lol

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"The thing is... at the golf club the men don't hang around in gangs of 20+ with their cocks out following the ladies to the green.

clearly never been to a diner dance or a sportsmen s evening! lol"

Are you suggesting these events are full of wankers?

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

definitely a lot! lol but then so are the swinging clubs lol

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

If a woman's brain worked the same as a man's you might be right.

If women weren't generally in lower paid jobs, you'd be right.

If women didn't generally have tighter budgets because of looking after the kids, you'd be right.

If many women didn't already have to pay for childcare before they even get to the club, you may be right.

If there were as many women wanting to go to a club as there were men, you'd be on to something.

If women couldn't get layed at the drop of a hat anyway without going to a club..... well yeah you might be right.

The price differential alone does not keep the dickheads away... it's just one of many things which help to reduce the numbers.

It's difficult for me to comment on how a womens brain works, being a man I'm bound to lose that argument, but the overwhelming majority of women on here strike me as being very switched on, including you.

It is however difficult for me to accept your argument on keeping a pricing differential for 'social economic' reasons. For every women you could introduce to me with limited resources, I could introduce a guy with less disposable income.

I must also remind you that you stated 'compared to some night club prices... 'it isn't an excessive entry fee', I assure you the nightclubs are full of single women!

The suggestion that women are the only ones who can get layed at the drop of a hat is simply not true! It's a myth that seems to get peddled out now and then to support arguments. Maybe it is the case in this scene (which is a small section of society), but it certainly is not in the wider world.

You infer a desire to keep the 'dickheads' away, I agree with you that undesirable elements of both sexes should be discouraged from attending these clubs, but what's undesirable? One persons 'dickhead' is another persons toy!

Look, I just think business' have to adapt their business model to change, find a way of keeping current customers happy and attracting new ones . Whether we like it or not business' have to operate within the law.

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By *iamondladyWoman
over a year ago

titsville

If a woman's brain worked the same as a man's you might be right.

If women weren't generally in lower paid jobs, you'd be right.

If women didn't generally have tighter budgets

because of looking after the kids, you'd be right.

If many women didn't already have to pay for childcare before they even get to the club, you may be right.

If there were as many women wanting to go to a

club as there were men, you'd be on to something.

If women couldn't get layed at the drop of a hat anyway without going to a club..... well yeah you might be right

The price differential alone does not keep the dickheads away... it's just one of many things which help to reduce the numbers.

I must also remind you that you stated 'compared to some night club prices... 'it isn't an excessive entry fee', I assure you the nightclubs are full of single women!

The suggestion that women are the only ones who can get layed at the drop of a hat is simply

not true! It's a myth that seems to get peddled out now and then to support arguments. Maybe it is the case in this scene (which is a small section of society), but it certainly is not in the wider world.

Look, I just think business' have to adapt their

business model to change, find a way of keeping current customers happy and attracting new ones . Whether we like it or not business' have to operate within the law. "

Swinging clubs are alot different to other clubs. In the world of swinging there is alot more single guys than single ladies or even couples. So to keep the guys and some couples happy the single females are attracted that have a certain sexual appetite that say a girl in a nightclub may not have if she weren't d*unk at a low entry fee.

If the entry fee is say £35 for guys and the same was charged for ladies then I for one couldn't go. If it's fair to charge the singles the same rate then it follows that all couples should be charged the same at £70. Now if everyone is being charged the same I'm sure the club could afford to lower it's fees if it still had people willing to attend. It's all about supply and demand isn't it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You can tell that you don't regularly attend swinging clubs and don't understand how they work."

Your right, although I have, I don't regularly attend swinging clubs, but your very wrong when you state that I don't understand how they work. I clearly understand how they work, the business model, the different environments created on a couples only or mixed evening and the importance of women within that business model.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Swinging clubs are like eco systems... it's about balance.

Everytime the subject of club pricing has come up over the years, many of the women who do go to clubs have said they wouldn't if they had to pay the same as a single guy.... mostly due to the reasons I posted. So if less single females go... what effect does that have on the club?

There are (generally) already enough, if not too many guys, wanting to join - even at the current prices.

There are nowhere near as many single females.

So if they make it cheaper for guys and have to allow more guys.... what effect does that have on the club?

And let's not forget the couples.... after all this is a swinging club we are talking about.

If you go to clubs and have seen a bad night when there are far too many single guys in, you'll get the idea.

No one plays as there is a herd of masterbating men following anyone who even looks like they might be looking for somewhere to play.

OK a few couples might be happy with that..... but eventually thats all the herd will have to follow - a few couples.

So yay for equality.... but who really wins?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If a woman's brain worked the same as a man's you might be right.

If women weren't generally in lower paid jobs, you'd be right.

If women didn't generally have tighter budgets

because of looking after the kids, you'd be right.

If many women didn't already have to pay for childcare before they even get to the club, you may be right.

If there were as many women wanting to go to a

club as there were men, you'd be on to something.

If women couldn't get layed at the drop of a hat anyway without going to a club..... well yeah you might be right

The price differential alone does not keep the dickheads away... it's just one of many things which help to reduce the numbers.

I must also remind you that you stated 'compared to some night club prices... 'it isn't an excessive entry fee', I assure you the nightclubs are full of single women!

The suggestion that women are the only ones who can get layed at the drop of a hat is simply

Look, I just think business' have to adapt their

business model to change, find a way of keeping current customers happy and attracting new ones . Whether we like it or not business' have to operate within the law.

But that's the problem that the clubs will have to grapple with.

They will be needing to operate within the law and not within what was happening before.

I can't see supply and demand making any odds. It's the law that will be followed.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Something to think about.

Why are there so many more men who will pay for sex... based on the number of female to male hookers making a living?

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By *iamondladyWoman
over a year ago

titsville

If a woman's brain worked the same as a man's you might be right.

If women weren't generally in lower paid jobs, you'd be right.

If women didn't generally have tighter budgets

because of looking after the kids, you'd be right.

If many women didn't already have to pay for childcare before they even get to the club, you may be right.

If there were as many women wanting to go to a

club as there were men, you'd be on to something.

If women couldn't get layed at the drop of a hat anyway without going to a club..... well yeah you might be right

The price differential alone does not keep the dickheads away... it's just one of many things which help to reduce the numbers.

It's difficult for me to comment on how a womens brain works, being a man I'm bound to lose that

argument, but the overwhelming majority of women on here strike me as being very switched on, including you.

It is however difficult for me to accept your argument on keeping a pricing differential for 'social economic' reasons. For every women you could introduce to me with limited resources, I

could introduce a guy with less disposable income.

I must also remind you that you stated 'compared to some night club prices... 'it isn't an excessive entry fee', I assure you the nightclubs are full of single women!

The suggestion that women are the only ones who can get layed at the drop of a hat is simply

not true! It's a myth that seems to get peddled out now and then to support arguments. Maybe it is the case in this scene (which is a small section

of society), but it certainly is not in the wider world.

You infer a desire to keep the 'dickheads' away, I agree with you that undesirable elements of both sexes should be discouraged from attending

these clubs, but what's undesirable? One persons 'dickhead' is another persons toy!

Look, I just think business' have to adapt their

business model to change, find a way of keeping current customers happy and attracting new ones

. Whether we like it or not business' have to operate within the law.

Swinging clubs are alot different to other clubs. In the world of swinging there is alot more single guys than single ladies or even couples. So to

keep the guys and some couples happy the single females are attracted that have a certain sexual appetite that say a girl in a nightclub may not have if she weren't d*unk at a low entry fee.

If the entry fee is say £35 for guys and the same was charged for ladies then I for one couldn't go.

If it's fair to charge the singles the same rate then it follows that all couples should be charged the same at £70. Now if everyone is being charged the same I'm sure the club could afford to lower it's fees if it still had people willing to attend. It's all about supply and demand isn't it.

But that's the problem that the clubs will have to grapple with.

They will be needing to operate within the law and not within what was happening before.

I can't see supply and demand making any odds. It's the law that will be followed."

Well let's hope they find a loophole like they did 10 years ago when the first swinging club was started!

One way maybe be to have a charge per person.

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By *UNCHBOXMan
over a year ago

folkestone

As someone who used to go a lot to clubs, and still do when i can, from my experience i havent seen a great amount of single women. I have been on couples nights and also mixed, and it was rare to see any more than 2 single women in the 2 clubs i used to go to. From me, there was no attraction to go to the club to meet single women because i knew there wasn't going to be a lot of them. It maybe different at other clubs ive not been to, but ive always played with cpls at a club.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If by single women we are talking about women that actually go by themselves rather than going with an escort then there does seem to be very few, insignificant numbers. Being equal can be hard sometimes just have to get used to it.

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By *ouch PotatoMan
over a year ago

nationwide.

I can see single guys killing the golden goose here. Isn't it better to pay £30 to get in and have a chance at a shag with the club limiting single males rather than the club having a capacity of 300 say, letting in 280 males and then only being able to let 10 couples in. Beware guys of getting less than you bargained for!

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By *obblybitsCouple
over a year ago

huddersfield

how nice well if the number of males is now not restricted and they can no longer charge more for single men then I really do think the clubs will soon be quiet but the humble noise of single men and tumble s with the odd gangbang and a good handful of couples.

I may be completely of the mark but some people get frustrated as it is with the numbers monitored without that been taken away.

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By *ittle-Miss-MuffetCouple
over a year ago

Chester / North Wales

"Clubs can limit the numbers attending by just using Health and Safety Regs, ie Fire Regs.. "

So, are single guys more prone to burst into flames than their attached counterparts?

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

Lots of comments in this thread have been made by people who benefited from the current system. Understandably they don't want to see any changes introduced because they will ultimately lose out in some form or another.

As I see it, under the current system Pareto's Principle would definitely seem applicable in the world of swinging clubs - i.e. 80% of revenue coming from 20% of customers.

I've often found something distasteful about cases where Pareto's Principle can be seen (distribution of wealth, ownership of land, etc...) and it's the same with swinging club pricing.

As a single male, I'm directly affected by this discrimination and therefore it's natural for me to consider it immoral. However I'd feel the same if the rule had been that fat women were charged more, or ginger people, or anyone living north of the Watford Gap, or Volvo drivers, etc...

Discrimination, in any form, is wrong. It may be that the Gravy Train is coming to an end for some people... well, so be it.

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By *lubPartyPeepsCouple
over a year ago

London

What Jed said.

And between us and him, we have probably been to more clubs in the country than we have had hot dinners.

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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago

sandwell

Discrimination, in any form, is wrong. It may be that the Gravy Train is coming to an end for some people... well, so be it. "

Nothing to do with discrimination. Clubs are businesses and they apply the principle of supply and demand. Simple as that. If you don't like paying the fee then don't go. Nobody is forcing you. If enough single men feel the same then the price will drop. If the demographics of the members was suddenly to shift so that single females outnumbered single men by 10 to 1 then I have no doubt that the "discrimination" would be reversed pretty sharpish.

IF clubs are forced into equal entry costs for single females and single males then the cost for single females will go up to match that of single females. Less single females in clubs will be the only result.

Do the math (based on a local clubs pricing (couples £10, single men £25 single females free) with 50 single guys 50 couples and 5 single females):

Scenario 1 (couples and singles pay the same price)loss to the club of 50x£15=£750 gain of £50 assuming all 5 females are still willing to attend. net loss of £700

Scenario 2 (single females pay the same as single guys ie £25)

No loss from single guys and a gain of £125 assuming the females are willing to pay (which they wont)

Which scenario the club chooses is a bit of a no brainer isn't it?

As I said before, anyone who thinks that the price for single males will drop on the back of this is naive at best. Anybody that tries to force a club to drop the price is just plain dumb.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well i for one will not be paying the same price to get in as guys do

the day i have to pay £100 membership a year and £30/40 to get in every visit will be the say i stop using clubs

And i think a lot of women will feel the same

i personally think this will put a total stop to single women in clubs

shame really as i enjoy them but we'll see if it happens

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"well i for one will not be paying the same price to get in as guys do

the day i have to pay £100 membership a year and £30/40 to get in every visit will be the say i stop using clubs

And i think a lot of women will feel the same

i personally think this will put a total stop to single women in clubs

shame really as i enjoy them but we'll see if it happens"

As I said before, I am not sure that single guys who moan about their entry costs realise it may mean there are far more of them in clubs and far less women.....

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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago

sandwell

"well i for one will not be paying the same price to get in as guys do

the day i have to pay £100 membership a year and £30/40 to get in every visit will be the say i stop using clubs

And i think a lot of women will feel the same

i personally think this will put a total stop to single women in clubs

shame really as i enjoy them but we'll see if it happens"

I wouldn't worry about it

Simply ask one of the single guys to escort you through the door, get him to pay the entrance fee, you get in for nothing, he saves £10-15, wave bye bye as soon as you are in and everybody wins (except the club).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Crazy idea again this will kill a lot of clubs xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

big question is... charging 50£ for a single male a 10£ for a couple is not going to keep the "dickheads" away.

Who's the biggest dickhead, the one that is not really desperate and wouldnt pay 50£ to get in, or the one that pays 50£ for a minimal chance of some action?

In a way, high prices for single males actually makes sure that only enters the DESPERATE // PERVERT type.

Open door to all single males ?

a simple fair rule would be like :

Maximum allowed in:

30 males 30 females 100 couples.

its not discriminating anyone. females are having the same right but would need to pay the same price as single male.

can be easly solved by reducing a bit the price for singles and increasing like 5£ for the couples.

I don't frequent clubs but its just my point of view.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think this will cause the balance at clubs to go out of control.

You need a balance or there is 50 blokes sat around looking at 5 couples and 1 single lady.

You just end up with probably 45 blokes going home disappointed.

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

We were at out friends club last night so I thought id ask what their thoughts were on this

I can't remember what they said as I got waylaid and then forgot all about it

I know..... Im useless!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Often couples pay more to go to a club than single males .......

There are exceptions to this, but I am about to talk about a majority situation.

Single Male going to club

Average annual membership £50

Average entry fee £30

Fuel/drink/food £15

lets say they go once a month - total expediture - £545

Most men travel to a club within 1 hour of thier home, this is often because travelling further might alert the wife (not having a go but a fact that 60% of single males at clubs are married)

Club facilities are usually the same wherever a single male goes, but couples like different things and will travel further to find what they like ie Dance Floor, accommodation, food availability etc.

So for couples going to a club

Average membership fee £20

Average entry cost £20

Babysitter £30

Food/drink/Fuel £40

Accommodation £20

Average annual cost £1092

low accommodation because only half the couples do stay overnight in accn, not included a new outfit for the female every month and longer travelling distances.

Ok the single guy pays more to get in but couples pay more out in other ways like accommodation and babysitters etc.

In clubs single men subsidise couples, there is no getting away from that, is it wrong, perhaps, what's in it for the guys - more couples go, what's in it for the couples, they can afford to go.

I know one family in Stoke that consists of a couple and 2 kids, one person works, they have less disposable income than a single member of the same family who also goes to clubs.

Real world - without the subsidies they couldn't afford to go to clubs.

In many walks of life one group of people subsidise another group

Tax pays for things non-taxpayers need

NI contributions are used to pay for medical treatment for non NI paying people

Train tickets are priced to cover the cost of those that sneak on trains

Car insurance costs pay for very bad drivers

Tesco prices include a % to cover theft

Women getting cheap drinks in nightclubs or free entry

its something we all live with everyday

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Do the math (based on a local clubs pricing (couples £10, single men £25 single females free) with 50 single guys 50 couples and 5 single females):

Scenario 1 (couples and singles pay the same price)loss to the club of 50x£15=£750 gain of £50 assuming all 5 females are still willing to attend. net loss of £700

Scenario 2 (single females pay the same as single guys ie £25)

No loss from single guys and a gain of £125 assuming the females are willing to pay (which they wont)

Which scenario the club chooses is a bit of a no brainer isn't it?

As I said before, anyone who thinks that the price for single males will drop on the back of this is naive at best. Anybody that tries to force a club to drop the price is just plain dumb.

The law classifies it as discrimination based on sex. Your opinion or my opinion on whether it is or not is irrelevant.

This has turned into a reasonably long thread, throughout it i dont recall even one single guy calling for a reduction in entry costs. Please correct me if i'm wrong. There have been some asking for equality or fairness in pricing.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

its something we all live with everyday

You talk a lot of sense Jed and I agree with much of it.

There are things we just live with, some good, some bad then lawmakers make decisions they believe will make our lives better but EVERY law change has a negative effect on someone that is simply the nature of change.

I just think there’s no point adopting the ostrich syndrome (not for one moment suggesting you are) when things change that we cannot control.

I have not yet seen a convincing enough argument that leads me to accept this signals the end of private swinging members clubs.

For them to continue and prosper there are only 3 real options here.

Break the law,

Find a loophole (I think there are a couple, but it’s only a matter of time before lawmakers would close them)

Change the business model.

The only long term fix is option 3 and you may think me naïve for saying this but I think this is an opportunity for the swinging club scene to re-brand itself. Do you really believe that the next generation of younger swingers coming through are going to accept discrimination in anyway long-term? I think that part of this re-branding will be that couples pay less than singles because I don’t believe that breaks the law. I know how I would approach the re-branding and how I would try to create some loopholes in the short term, but I don’t run a club. It will be interesting to see how they adapt and keep all customers happy, including single women.

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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago

sandwell

[Removed by poster at 09/10/10 16:49:56]

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By *lubPartyPeepsCouple
over a year ago

London

As far as we can tell, at the best clubs, the customers are very happy, hence why they are thriving.

Preach the law all you want, but this isn't going to change.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"big question is... charging 50£ for a single male a 10£ for a couple is not going to keep the "dickheads" away.

Who's the biggest dickhead, the one that is not really desperate and wouldnt pay 50£ to get in, or the one that pays 50£ for a minimal chance of some action?

In a way, high prices for single males actually makes sure that only enters the DESPERATE // PERVERT type.

Open door to all single males ?

a simple fair rule would be like :

Maximum allowed in:

30 males 30 females 100 couples.

its not discriminating anyone. females are having the same right but would need to pay the same price as single male.

can be easly solved by reducing a bit the price for singles and increasing like 5£ for the couples.

I don't frequent clubs but its just my point of view.

you can kinda tell that you don't frequent clubs because in the real world it is more like this...

would it affect greedy girl nights... yes...

because couples and singles ladies would have to pay....

which then lowers the numbers going which ups the ratios....

less people play...

less people go...

club dies....

would it affect mixed nights... yes...

less couples go...

ups the ratios...

atmosphere is then different...

people stop going...

club dies.....

catch 22........

and as regards to this.....

"Who's the biggest dickhead, the one that is not really desperate and wouldnt pay 50£ to get in, or the one that pays 50£ for a minimal chance of some action?"

Some people could find that quite offensive.....

I am going to clubs as much for the atmosphere and ethos and sharing interests with people as much as it is about the playing..... for me playing is a bonus!

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"big question is... charging 50£ for a single male a 10£ for a couple is not going to keep the "dickheads" away.

I don't frequent clubs but its just my point of view.

Oh the irony

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"big question is... charging 50£ for a single male a 10£ for a couple is not going to keep the "dickheads" away.

I don't frequent clubs but its just my point of view

Oh the irony

irony?is that the updated version of the iRon technology for ladies?

)

surely and I'm not calling you surely all clubs will have allocation for numbers of couple and sinlges to allow them to stay in business all this means is there will be parity between what we all pay and nothing to do with anything else so please stop worrying

)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One of the biggest problems clubs will face is who is on thier membership books.

It's not the gym, it's not the golf club, you can't guess how often people will visit a club, for some it is 4 times a week for others 4 times a year, to ensure that the balance of single males to females (couples/single fems) is about right clubs have to have a lot more members than those actually there, kinda hard to explain but will cause a headache.

At the end of the day we can discuss it all we like in here but it is club owners who will make the final descision as to what action they take.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I am reading thru the act as we speak now, am I think I have spotted something quite fundermental which is going to protect clubs......

the protected status's in the act are....

disability, gender realignment, Pregnancy and Maternity, race, religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.....

doesn't say anything about marital status though..... therefore if you go as a "couple" and consider yourself to be a "couple", then that isn't covered....

so they can charge couples differently then they can singles.......

so from what I read, Technically you can't differently charge single guys and single fems...... or between Couples (MM),Couples (MF) and Couples (FF)

However in Clubs CAN still have different rules attached to the different types (so before two single guys decide to test the "couple" thing.... I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a "stay together play together" clause to make people think twice about it......)

can someone just check if i am reading any of this wrong......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

disability, gender realignment, Pregnancy and Maternity, race, religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.....

does that now mean that bi men can play in open room any night of the week like bi females can?

i for one would like to see that rule come in and i have never thought it fair women can play when they like but men cant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As far as we can tell, at the best clubs, the customers are very happy, hence why they are thriving.

Preach the law all you want, but this isn't going to change."

i agree with this

lets be honest most of the people who swing want single female

be it single guys

couples

and other single females

i get so much more male as a single woman that i did as a couple its unreal

so why would any club put prices up and drive the women away it just dont make no sence

then where will all the single females be for the men to couple up with to join other couples? the couple to meet for that FFM they want? gang bands etc, ok i know there will still be women in clubs as part of couples but lets me honest theres more couples who dont play with single guys than ones that do

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

and I think I have just found the "smoking gun" that they will use for Single ladies...... and make single men cry...

under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....

and we all know that people section under-represented at clubs are "single fems"....

I think I chose the wrong profession to go into....

okay.... if any clubs would like to give me free membership for the rest of me life now.... you know where to sent it.....

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By *iamondladyWoman
over a year ago

titsville

"and I think I have just found the "smoking gun" that they will use for Single ladies...... and make single men cry...

under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....

and we all know that people section under-

represented at clubs are "single fems"....

I think I chose the wrong profession to go into....

okay.... if any clubs would like to give me free membership for the rest of me life now.... you

know where to sent it.....

I so hope your right as otherwise my swinging days at Chams will be numbered and after seven years that will be a hard pill to swallow!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I so hope your right as otherwise my swinging days at Chams will be numbered and after seven years that will be a hard pill to swallow!

all a club would have to do is open up there books so they could see how many memberships there are for couples, single guys and single fems

that bit is actually easy......

so nothing to see here... move along...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fabio has done well to find some very important points in the legislation, imagine what the solicitors of clubs like Chameleons are doing with it as we speak

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

this is what happens when I have 10 days off and nothing to do.......

right... back off to watch jeremy kyle now!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"and I think I have just found the "smoking gun" that they will use for Single ladies...... and make single men cry...

under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....

and we all know that people section under-

represented at clubs are "single fems"....

I think I chose the wrong profession to go into....

okay.... if any clubs would like to give me free membership for the rest of me life now.... you

know where to sent it.....

I so hope your right as otherwise my swinging days at Chams will be numbered and after seven years that will be a hard pill to swallow!

mine too but theres no way id pay the same price as men to get sex in a club, id just meet in hotels or something, will be much cheaper to pay halfs on a hotel that use a club at them prices

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"and I think I have just found the "smoking gun" that they will use for Single ladies...... and make single men cry...

under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....

and we all know that people section under-

represented at clubs are "single fems"....

I think I chose the wrong profession to go into....

okay.... if any clubs would like to give me free membership for the rest of me life now.... you

know where to sent it.....

I so hope your right as otherwise my swinging days at Chams will be numbered and after seven years that will be a hard pill to swallow!

mine too but theres no way id pay the same price as men to get sex in a club, id just meet in hotels or something, will be much cheaper to pay halfs on a hotel that use a club at them prices"

NN! the number of guys you like to have in an evening the hotel charge would be free! well almoost! MWAH!xxxxxx only kidding! or am !? sounds like the way to go though! lol

)

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"One of the biggest problems clubs will face is who is on thier membership books.

At the end of the day we can discuss it all we like in here but it is club owners who will make the final descision as to what action they take."

clubs of any kind we always have more people on the 'books' that actually attend regularly...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

of course of course but the gym tends to be a regular event as does golf for the majority of members, swinging is much more a "whim on the night" event for many people.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

"We're seeing some friends tomorrow that own a club,ill ask them what they think of the new legislation and if they have any plans to acommodate it

I think I kknow what they'll say before I even ask the question

So, any update?

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

So, looks like Fabio has found the loopholes that will let clubs still charge different rates, albeit not between single fems and single males... so, brace yaselves cpls, for a sharp increase in entry fee, or did I read his interpretation wrong?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"So, looks like Fabio has found the loopholes that will let clubs still charge different rates, albeit not between single fems and single males... so, brace yaselves cpls, for a sharp increase in entry fee, or did I read his interpretation wrong?

yep... slighty wrong.....

absolutely legal to discriminate between couples and singles, since marital status if effect is not covered..... and you can use the positive discrimination to charge single women less than single men based on the unequal numbers if they see it.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They will find a way around it, like many have with the disability discrimination act."

Tell me about it, like having play rooms upstairs with no lift!

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"and I think I have just found the "smoking gun" that they will use for Single ladies...... and make single men cry...

under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....

and we all know that people section under-represented at clubs are "single fems"....

I think I chose the wrong profession to go into....

okay.... if any clubs would like to give me free membership for the rest of me life now.... you know where to sent it.....

possible solution but as we already know there are already fewer single ladies and they already pay less and this hasn't redressed the balance as you say...so therefor if clubs were required under challenge to show numbers of single ladies on their books historically it would demonstrate as being a mute point as it hasn't worked previously has it? and after all we are talking equality...which everyone wants don't they?...or do they just want it and cry out for it when its for their own benefit? hmmmmm?

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Right...who wants to go clubbing?

No? maybe another time then

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By *iamondladyWoman
over a year ago

titsville

equality...which everyone wants don't they?...or do they just want it and cry out for it when its for their own benefit? hmmmmm?

I'm not if ur a regular club goer or not. If you think hardly any single fems go to clubs why are u so worried about what they are charged. It's not going to affect what you pay.

Currently alot of single fems go to the club I attend but they are still in the minority as numbers take time to grow. I wonder if u ever been to a fab party and seen the number of single fems that attend.

If the fees go up for single fems less will attend clubs and the chance of guys or couples getting a meet is greatly reduced so all loose. I don't see anyone complaining really.

I think if equality is strictly enforced then the couples will have to pay double the single rate as their is to of them etc.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

I think this thread has exposed a little bitterness towards females from certain parties......just the feeling I get from reading some of the posts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They will find a way around it, like many have with the disability discrimination act.

Tell me about it, like having play rooms upstairs with no lift!

Nobody "got round" the disability discrimination act, the act applies to places where entry to the public is permitted, as private members clubs do not allow the public to enter they are exempt this act.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

equality...which everyone wants don't they?...or do they just want it and cry out for it when its for their own benefit? hmmmmm?

I'm not if ur a regular club goer or not. If you think hardly any single fems go to clubs why are u so worried about what they are charged. It's not going to affect what you pay.

If the fees go up for single fems less will attend clubs and the chance of guys or couples getting a meet is greatly reduced so all loose. I don't see anyone complaining really.

I think if equality is strictly enforced then the couples will have to pay double the single rate as their is to of them etc.

I think you are asking if I attend clubs as your opening comment is not clear so assuming that's what you're asking then yes, I do attend Chams and on the nights I go it's very evident that the ladies are out numbered 10-1 or possibly higher, cpls nights the balance is redressed,afternoons are iffy as to parity and socials pretty well balanced.

However, I made a point earlier that clubs would be looking for loop holes and generally if we can find a shortcut/loophole we will. I'm sure that Chams has been around for some time and does everything they can to recruit single ladies but surely it stands to reason they will always be out numbered and in the minority in clubs (special events excluded)and to suggest that they are only their now because they can pay less and we know how much ladies love a good sale! lol seems a little churlish.

Historically ladies have sought equality and that will never change and it never should and here in the UK we enjoy equality the envy of the planet! So why shouldn't guys have a little now? The last post I made I was attempting to demonstrate what was to me that although a possible loophole had been discovered I'm sure that will have already been addressed by the Equality's Dept, but we will see and who knows for all those that have vented their spleen over this injustice that in the fullness of time we will forget all about this and just continue to wear seat belts and crash helmets and not use our mobiles while driving and only smoke where we can.Oh yes I don't smoke either..time heels ALL!

have a nice day..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think this thread has exposed a little bitterness towards females from certain parties......just the feeling I get from reading some of the posts."

...and quite a lot towards single blokes aswell sadly.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

"They will find a way around it, like many have with the disability discrimination act.

Tell me about it, like having play rooms upstairs with no lift!

And that is OK then is it? I have personal experience of the benefits of these changes and by not making the changes is it showing that disability is still seen as undesirable around able bodied people or is it that clubs don't want to spend the money if they don't have too?

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By *iamondladyWoman
over a year ago

titsville

I think we can agree to disagree on the number of single fems as perhaps when I go I take alot of single fems with me as you know all girls like to go together.

I don't see what is churlish about us not going at least not as regularly as quite a few of us travel over 100 miles to get to the club. As well as myself another regular at the club has told you that she wouldn't go if the fee was increased to that of the single guys. It will be interesting to see what Nick makes of it all.

I think the single fems will just do hotel meets or organised house parties instead. Then when u go you may be likely to the odd single fem if this ruling is unforced. Perhaps you only like to play with couples who usually control the proceedings.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Organised House Parties and Party Circuits are on the increase down this way, that way the organisers/hosts are guaranteed to control numbers in a way that suits them.

I have been attending parties far more than clubs over the last year or two and expect that to be the same whatever the clubs change about their entry policies.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

so are we disagreeing on the premise that if you made single ladies pay the same as single man, that it wouldn't make a jot of difference to the numbers......

all chams (or any other club) would have to do is open up there books... see how many couples, single male and single fem memberships they currently have..... show the records of what it is like on nights at the moment (which they should do already for tax purposes) and could easily make the claim they are already positively discriminating now...... as any move in charges would make the situation worse

i don't think you'd find a court in the land that you call against a club.....

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

so are we disagreeing on the premise that if you made single ladies pay the same as single man, that it wouldn't make a jot of difference to the numbers......

i don't think you'd find a court in the land that you call against a club....."

Positive discrimination is commomly used to fulfill vacancies when all usual methods are either flagging or have been exhausted ie reduction in height requirement for Police service or to get more single ladies in to clubs, as you are never ever going to get the same or equal numbers in clubs, and you know you wont as long as the earth spins on its access! so at some point time should be or is called and enough is enough...now as unfortunate as that is for some thats the way it is so move on and accept or don't...just as we all have to every day of our lives when we feel that someone is stopping us doing exactly what we want because thats how we have been used to doing it.. men landing on the moon! it will never happen! we dont have to like it, we can protest it you can speak to your club proprietor or MP about it..lets see how many do! lol as I said eons ago in this thread..I'm sure some will seek out loop holes and good luck to them I just don't believe that your chosen one will hold water...my opinion..like it or don't your choice...nobody will die from it! think this needs closing now! phew! lol

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

Thus spake the new mod!!! Z

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can understand how some single guys may have a bee in their bonnet about coughing up for club entrance, but personally I don't give much of a monkeys.

Basically, I pay membership to a club, sure, but my working hours make my solo visits few and far between. Instead I'd usually visit with female friends, as money aside it's ideal for both of us when fancy letting our voyeuristic sides out, plus the atmosphere is always down to earth and brilliant!

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