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"Depends if they put it on their profile that they meet alone. I can see why it would be taken as offence especially with some less than "symmetrical" couples. " | |||
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"Depends if they put it on their profile that they meet alone. I can see why it would be taken as offence especially with some less than "symmetrical" couples. " If they said that they didn't then of course they wouldn't ask. But I thought that it would be ok to ask if they don't specify. Perhaps I was wrong though from the tone of the messages I tend to get! (Although I get plenty of messages from men on couples profiles asking to meet alone...) | |||
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"Just wondering if I can get peoples opinions on this. If a couple message me and - for some reason - I'm interested in one of them more than them as a couple unit, is it poor form to enquire politely if they consider I've had mixed responses varying from 'yes, when would you like to get coffee?' to 'fuck you, how dare you suggest we would cheat on each other'. Is there a consensus I have missed because I come from the poly and fetish world to swinging?" Hi, we do our initial meet together to see if we all click/gel. M does long hours so is happy for me to meet solo with men/couples that we are both comfortable with. M really enjoys the pictures and messages of what's gone on and what I want to do with him when he gets home. So we wouldn't be offended if someone asked us. X | |||
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"Just wondering if I can get peoples opinions on this. If a couple message me and - for some reason - I'm interested in one of them more than them as a couple unit, is it poor form to enquire politely if they consider meeting without each other? I've had mixed responses varying from 'yes, when would you like to get coffee?' to 'fuck you, how dare you suggest we would cheat on each other'. Is there a consensus I have missed because I come from the poly and fetish world to swinging?" We have said on our profile that we only meet together, so if someone asked one of us to meet alone I would find it a bit rude and disrespectful. We have also had it happen in clubs before - people have just asked me join for a threesome. I find that a bit off as I'm clearly there with somebody. But I guess in that situation if you don't ask you don't know! | |||
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"I think a lot of couples will only meet together because they are here to have fun together not separately! Horses for courses, I wouldn't ask if the couple meet separately unless they specifically stated it on their profile. Don't know what the etiquette would be, as personally would assume it's something you wouldn't ask. " We meet alone but hide nothing from each other...everyones idea of swinging is different | |||
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"If we were messaged out of the blue asking to meet alone we'd not be impressed. We've never had the scenario you mention but we do play alone with people that we know, I guess if we received the suggestion as a reply we'd discuss it and be open to it - whether it offended us would depend largely on how it was worded. " I think it's because while I do enjoy mff threesomes, I would prefer to get to know people one on one before having group action. So it's great for me to be able to get to know one person in the couple and form a bond, while knowing there is still the potential to play with them as a couple down the road. | |||
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" We have also had it happen in clubs before - people have just asked me join for a threesome. I find that a bit off as I'm clearly there with somebody. But I guess in that situation if you don't ask you don't know! " Yeah, I guess everyone is different. I'm very happy to play alone at clubs - even though I almost always go with a male partner (or two). And I'm very happy for them to play alone too, without me. But there's no way of telling without asking. | |||
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"Depends if they put it on their profile that they meet alone. I can see why it would be taken as offence especially with some less than "symmetrical" couples. If they said that they didn't then of course they wouldn't ask. But I thought that it would be ok to ask if they don't specify. Perhaps I was wrong though from the tone of the messages I tend to get! (Although I get plenty of messages from men on couples profiles asking to meet alone...)" Why would you ask for something just because it wasnt stated on the profile? Pretty assumptive isnt it. Fine if they mention it but Id guess if they dont then it's not something you should ask for. Guys get slated on here for doing that, I'd view you no different to them. B | |||
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"If we were messaged out of the blue asking to meet alone we'd not be impressed. We've never had the scenario you mention but we do play alone with people that we know, I guess if we received the suggestion as a reply we'd discuss it and be open to it - whether it offended us would depend largely on how it was worded. I think it's because while I do enjoy mff threesomes, I would prefer to get to know people one on one before having group action. So it's great for me to be able to get to know one person in the couple and form a bond, while knowing there is still the potential to play with them as a couple down the road." I think wording it is as you have actually makes a lot of sense and less likely to cause offence. Im assuming couples take 'I'd like to meet one of you, but not the other' as code for 'I think your other half is plug ugly' and they're bound to be protective of each other. | |||
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"Depends if they put it on their profile that they meet alone. I can see why it would be taken as offence especially with some less than "symmetrical" couples. If they said that they didn't then of course they wouldn't ask. But I thought that it would be ok to ask if they don't specify. Perhaps I was wrong though from the tone of the messages I tend to get! (Although I get plenty of messages from men on couples profiles asking to meet alone...) Why would you ask for something just because it wasnt stated on the profile? Pretty assumptive isnt it. Fine if they mention it but Id guess if they dont then it's not something you should ask for. Guys get slated on here for doing that, I'd view you no different to them. B" How so? If someone feels THAT strongly against it, then they should put it on their profile. Why should anyone be slated for asking a question? From the number of messages I get from one half of a couple wanting to meet alone (as I don't meet couples) there's an awful lot of people on here who do just that, so it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. | |||
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"Depends if they put it on their profile that they meet alone. I can see why it would be taken as offence especially with some less than "symmetrical" couples. If they said that they didn't then of course they wouldn't ask. But I thought that it would be ok to ask if they don't specify. Perhaps I was wrong though from the tone of the messages I tend to get! (Although I get plenty of messages from men on couples profiles asking to meet alone...) Why would you ask for something just because it wasnt stated on the profile? Pretty assumptive isnt it. Fine if they mention it but Id guess if they dont then it's not something you should ask for. Guys get slated on here for doing that, I'd view you no different to them. B How so? If someone feels THAT strongly against it, then they should put it on their profile. Why should anyone be slated for asking a question? From the number of messages I get from one half of a couple wanting to meet alone (as I don't meet couples) there's an awful lot of people on here who do just that, so it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. " For you maybe... | |||
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"Depends if they put it on their profile that they meet alone. I can see why it would be taken as offence especially with some less than "symmetrical" couples. If they said that they didn't then of course they wouldn't ask. But I thought that it would be ok to ask if they don't specify. Perhaps I was wrong though from the tone of the messages I tend to get! (Although I get plenty of messages from men on couples profiles asking to meet alone...) Why would you ask for something just because it wasnt stated on the profile? Pretty assumptive isnt it. Fine if they mention it but Id guess if they dont then it's not something you should ask for. Guys get slated on here for doing that, I'd view you no different to them. B How so? If someone feels THAT strongly against it, then they should put it on their profile. Why should anyone be slated for asking a question? From the number of messages I get from one half of a couple wanting to meet alone (as I don't meet couples) there's an awful lot of people on here who do just that, so it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. " Also just to be clear, I have slated no one but simply pointed out that guys have been slated on here for asking that of couples. | |||
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" Why would you ask for something just because it wasnt stated on the profile? Pretty assumptive isnt it. Fine if they mention it but Id guess if they dont then it's not something you should ask for. Guys get slated on here for doing that, I'd view you no different to them. B" I guess because if I listed every single thing I enjoy or am open to on my profile, it would be about the size of the yellow pages (the old version, not the new skinny one). I don't list everything I might be open to on my profile, it would be a very boring list. I guess I assumed that other people were the same. | |||
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"We clearly state in our profile we meet as a couple only, we still get asked to meet alone, well fact is H does lol if anyone contacts us and wants to meet H alone but then says okay will see you both then it's a big no We swing together to enjoy play together otherwise if we wanted to play singly we would have single profiles too, if we see a couple profile and we are not into one of them we would never ask to play just with the other that's just rude! X" Ah! This is exactly what I was trying to say. Spot on! | |||
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"I don't think that either one of us would appreciate being told... Well.. I like the looks of you, but the other one can bugger off...!!! " I think perhaps I am a realist - I have never found two people exactly the same amount of attractive. It is just obvious - to me - that you will find one person in a couple or a group more attractive than others. | |||
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"I don't think that either one of us would appreciate being told... Well.. I like the looks of you, but the other one can bugger off...!!! I think perhaps I am a realist - I have never found two people exactly the same amount of attractive. It is just obvious - to me - that you will find one person in a couple or a group more attractive than others." This is one of the main reasons why I don't meet couples. | |||
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"Just wondering if I can get peoples opinions on this. If a couple message me and - for some reason - I'm interested in one of them more than them as a couple unit, is it poor form to enquire politely if they oconsider meeting without each other? I've had mixed responses varying from 'yes, when would you like to get coffee?' to 'fuck you, how dare you suggest we would cheat on each other'. Is there a consensus I have missed because I come from the poly and fetish world to swinging?" No, I doubt there a consensus on this, just as there probably isn't on most topics. Nor should it be considered 'poor form' to ask a question. Unless a couple specifically list it on their profile, I can't see why you shouldn't ask, and I think it is sad if you get flak as a result. Different couples seek different things, and sometimes individual couples' position on many things changes over time. (For example, we feel we are on a journey, and know our opinions in many things will be different this time next year, just as they are from this time last year.) Good luck Mr ddc | |||
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"I don't think that either one of us would appreciate being told... Well.. I like the looks of you, but the other one can bugger off...!!! I think perhaps I am a realist - I have never found two people exactly the same amount of attractive. It is just obvious - to me - that you will find one person in a couple or a group more attractive than others." Well of course! I can't argue with you on that one at all- all I'm saying is that if you are looking at couple profile, you are looking at a couple, unless they say otherwise... I don't think it's unreasonable for a couple to then get annoyed if you dismiss one of them - particularly if they are on the site as a couple to enjoy experiences together as a couple. | |||
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" Why would you ask for something just because it wasnt stated on the profile? Pretty assumptive isnt it. Fine if they mention it but Id guess if they dont then it's not something you should ask for. Guys get slated on here for doing that, I'd view you no different to them. B I guess because if I listed every single thing I enjoy or am open to on my profile, it would be about the size of the yellow pages (the old version, not the new skinny one). I don't list everything I might be open to on my profile, it would be a very boring list. I guess I assumed that other people were the same." Understand that but would work the other way as in listing what you dont want. It may just be me but I would assume that if a couple wanted to meet alone that is one thing they would put on a profile and I guess same could be said in reverse, it's really just about having your main desires public as you pointed out, there isnt the room for everything lol | |||
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"@DerbyDalesCpl - I think there are some pretty poor form questions to ask... I can write you a list, if you like?! " Lol, we're still learning, and you only learn if you ask questions... (Will the list scare me?) | |||
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"@DerbyDalesCpl - I think there are some pretty poor form questions to ask... I can write you a list, if you like?! Lol, we're still learning, and you only learn if you ask questions... (Will the list scare me?)" 15 minutes.... I'm starting to worry this may.be an awfully long list, and not just "Hi, love your pics, would mrs ... ever consider meeting me alone?" I really shouldn't be allowed out of the lounge on my own | |||
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"Depends if they put it on their profile that they meet alone. I can see why it would be taken as offence especially with some less than "symmetrical" couples. If they said that they didn't then of course they wouldn't ask. But I thought that it would be ok to ask if they don't specify. Perhaps I was wrong though from the tone of the messages I tend to get! (Although I get plenty of messages from men on couples profiles asking to meet alone...) Why would you ask for something just because it wasnt stated on the profile? Pretty assumptive isnt it. Fine if they mention it but Id guess if they dont then it's not something you should ask for. Guys get slated on here for doing that, I'd view you no different to them. B How so? If someone feels THAT strongly against it, then they should put it on their profile. Why should anyone be slated for asking a question? From the number of messages I get from one half of a couple wanting to meet alone (as I don't meet couples) there's an awful lot of people on here who do just that, so it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. " | |||
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"Depends if they put it on their profile that they meet alone. I can see why it would be taken as offence especially with some less than "symmetrical" couples. If they said that they didn't then of course they wouldn't ask. But I thought that it would be ok to ask if they don't specify. Perhaps I was wrong though from the tone of the messages I tend to get! (Although I get plenty of messages from men on couples profiles asking to meet alone...) Why would you ask for something just because it wasnt stated on the profile? Pretty assumptive isnt it. Fine if they mention it but Id guess if they dont then it's not something you should ask for. Guys get slated on here for doing that, I'd view you no different to them. B How so? If someone feels THAT strongly against it, then they should put it on their profile. Why should anyone be slated for asking a question? From the number of messages I get from one half of a couple wanting to meet alone (as I don't meet couples) there's an awful lot of people on here who do just that, so it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. For you maybe... " Fair enough. I just see it as the same as my being asked on a daily basis if I meet couples or women (both of which my profile indicates I'm not looking for). It's not an insulting question, so I'm not insulted by it. | |||
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"We wouldn't reply to someone asking to meet just one of us we would simply block them." This! | |||
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"@DerbyDalesCpl - I think there are some pretty poor form questions to ask... I can write you a list, if you like?! Lol, we're still learning, and you only learn if you ask questions... (Will the list scare me?)" I have no idea.... Depends on what you would consider scary!!! | |||
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"There's some very self important people on here! " Self important? Or confident and assertive? | |||
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"I don't think that either one of us would appreciate being told... Well.. I like the looks of you, but the other one can bugger off...!!! I think perhaps I am a realist - I have never found two people exactly the same amount of attractive. It is just obvious - to me - that you will find one person in a couple or a group more attractive than others." If you struggle so much with couples and are only looking to play with one would you not feel it more productive trawling through the singles? You could even find 2 singles who you may find will team up where you like them both. | |||
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"I don't think that either one of us would appreciate being told... Well.. I like the looks of you, but the other one can bugger off...!!! I think perhaps I am a realist - I have never found two people exactly the same amount of attractive. It is just obvious - to me - that you will find one person in a couple or a group more attractive than others. If you struggle so much with couples and are only looking to play with one would you not feel it more productive trawling through the singles? You could even find 2 singles who you may find will team up where you like them both. " As I said, I often ask the question once a couple has approached me. If I am interested in one but not the other i just politely say so and ask the question. I am looking to play with couples, but not all couples, and I like one on ones too. | |||
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"Am more intrigued into how the OP goes around proving a point to people on here as well as in her other posts than actually commenting on this topic as she has me on her side now because I tend to prefer people who think outside the box and able to convince me on their opinion. " | |||
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" As I said, I often ask the question once a couple has approached me. If I am interested in one but not the other i just politely say so and ask the question. I am looking to play with couples, but not all couples, and I like one on ones too." I understand what you are saying, you don't need to keep repeating yourself. What I am saying, along with most of the other people who have replied to you, is that I disagree with this approach for the reasons already given above, but mostly because it's rude. Rather than repeating to us that you feel you are entitled to insult one half of a couple to get what YOU want sexually, rather than considering what they might want as a pair, perhaps you could explain why you don't think its rude or offensive? | |||
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" As I said, I often ask the question once a couple has approached me. If I am interested in one but not the other i just politely say so and ask the question. I am looking to play with couples, but not all couples, and I like one on ones too. I understand what you are saying, you don't need to keep repeating yourself. What I am saying, along with most of the other people who have replied to you, is that I disagree with this approach for the reasons already given above, but mostly because it's rude. Rather than repeating to us that you feel you are entitled to insult one half of a couple to get what YOU want sexually, rather than considering what they might want as a pair, perhaps you could explain why you don't think its rude or offensive? " Lots of couples play alone too. Why is it rude or offensive? If they say on their profile they don't play alone then I agree it's very rude to ask. I also think it makes a difference how the question is raised. | |||
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" I understand what you are saying, you don't need to keep repeating yourself. What I am saying, along with most of the other people who have replied to you, is that I disagree with this approach for the reasons already given above, but mostly because it's rude. Rather than repeating to us that you feel you are entitled to insult one half of a couple to get what YOU want sexually, rather than considering what they might want as a pair, perhaps you could explain why you don't think its rude or offensive? " I guess because I'm poly and that is my background, I don't find it offensive to be asked if I'll play alone. I can't explain why I don't find it rude or offensive to be honest, that's like trying to explain why I don't find onions offensive - they're just not. If I had to guess I would assume it's because I don't subscribe to hedgemonic assumptions about couples being an exclusive unit. I don't believe that playing without your partner is a a particularly weird thing to do, that's very normal to me. I have multiple partners who I play with in different formations, sometimes one on one, sometimes without other people. I also don't think that saying 'I'm sorry, I do not find you sexually attractive' is actually insulting. If someone says that to me then I am not insulted. Being insulted over someone else's personal preferences as to sexual attractiveness is a really quick way to lead a miserable life. In this situation perhaps it would be better for the individual to evaluate where their self-worth is held - if it comes from strangers on the internet finding them attractive then perhaps then need to work on those issues before they try operating in a sexually liberated arena. Bottom line - to me it's not offensive. I have a couples profile on here (somewhere) with one of my partners and we've been asked to play separately in the past. We just usually ask them for their contact details so that we can talk to them privately without the other being involved. I get asked all the time for stuff that I don't enjoy on this site. I just say 'no thank you, that's not for me, good luck in your search'. However the rude replies that I've had back from some couples made me question if there was something amiss in my approach. | |||
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"In addition I actually find that most couples that approach me are not considering what *I* might want sexually. They are primarily interested in finding a plaything for their own enjoyment. But when I express to them that I might prefer something other than what they've offered, that's when the rudeness comes back." Of course. We are all here for ourselves, primarily. What I'm saying is that if your wants and needs don't match their wants and needs, there are probably hundreds of other profiles on here that do. | |||
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"Yes, lots of couples do play on their own, and they usually make this clear on their profiles, or early on in the conversation. I personally feel that, if we present ourselves as a couple, that is what is on offer. The reason it is insulting is because, as the OP has stated quite clearly, it is because she doesn't find one half of the couple attractive. It is rude to point that out to people. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand? " Why is it not rude to say to a single person 'I'm sorry, I do not wish to have sex with you because I don't find you attractive' but somehow it becomes rude when a person is a member of a couple-unit? | |||
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"In addition I actually find that most couples that approach me are not considering what *I* might want sexually. They are primarily interested in finding a plaything for their own enjoyment. But when I express to them that I might prefer something other than what they've offered, that's when the rudeness comes back. Of course. We are all here for ourselves, primarily. What I'm saying is that if your wants and needs don't match their wants and needs, there are probably hundreds of other profiles on here that do. " I do absolutely agree with you that there are plenty more fish, however I suppose that I feel it's worth a chance. You might meet someone who you click with like noone else - and what a shame to miss out on a wonderful experience just because some people don't enjoy non-monogamy? | |||
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"Yes, lots of couples do play on their own, and they usually make this clear on their profiles, or early on in the conversation. I personally feel that, if we present ourselves as a couple, that is what is on offer. The reason it is insulting is because, as the OP has stated quite clearly, it is because she doesn't find one half of the couple attractive. It is rude to point that out to people. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand? Why is it not rude to say to a single person 'I'm sorry, I do not wish to have sex with you because I don't find you attractive' but somehow it becomes rude when a person is a member of a couple-unit?" I think it's because they have presented themselves as a single unit. And by saying I want him but not her your forcing the 'chosen one' to chose to either stay as that unit or split it up. It probably shouldn't be hurtful but from experience it is, maybe thats my own lack of confidence but I should think most would feel the same. I'd go with if the profile doesn't state that they play alone.. I wouldn't ask | |||
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"Yes, lots of couples do play on their own, and they usually make this clear on their profiles, or early on in the conversation. I personally feel that, if we present ourselves as a couple, that is what is on offer. The reason it is insulting is because, as the OP has stated quite clearly, it is because she doesn't find one half of the couple attractive. It is rude to point that out to people. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand? " This is not difficult to understand at all. A couple find each other attractive; they are looking to met others together and share their intimacy Then someone comes along as tells that that they don't find one attractive and only want to share intimacy with the other. It is insulating and someone who doesn't understand that ..... | |||
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"Yes, lots of couples do play on their own, and they usually make this clear on their profiles, or early on in the conversation. I personally feel that, if we present ourselves as a couple, that is what is on offer. The reason it is insulting is because, as the OP has stated quite clearly, it is because she doesn't find one half of the couple attractive. It is rude to point that out to people. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand? Why is it not rude to say to a single person 'I'm sorry, I do not wish to have sex with you because I don't find you attractive' but somehow it becomes rude when a person is a member of a couple-unit?" I wouldn't dream of saying that to anyone, single or couple... Because it's rude and human beings can have fragile egos. Who am I to point out that I find them unnatractive? There are ways of doing things that don't involve hurting people's feelings, regardless of whether or not you yourself feel you would be hurt yourself. | |||
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"Yes, lots of couples do play on their own, and they usually make this clear on their profiles, or early on in the conversation. I personally feel that, if we present ourselves as a couple, that is what is on offer. The reason it is insulting is because, as the OP has stated quite clearly, it is because she doesn't find one half of the couple attractive. It is rude to point that out to people. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand? This is not difficult to understand at all. A couple find each other attractive; they are looking to met others together and share their intimacy Then someone comes along as tells that that they don't find one attractive and only want to share intimacy with the other. It is insulating and someone who doesn't understand that ....." Perfectly put x | |||
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"Depends if they put it on their profile that they meet alone. I can see why it would be taken as offence especially with some less than "symmetrical" couples. If they said that they didn't then of course they wouldn't ask. But I thought that it would be ok to ask if they don't specify. Perhaps I was wrong though from the tone of the messages I tend to get! (Although I get plenty of messages from men on couples profiles asking to meet alone...)" I don't see a problem with asking, if their profile doesn't say. I'm not part of a couple though and I tend to be better suited to open relationship type arrangements, so my perspective may be way off the norm, if there is one. | |||
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" DalesCpl - I think there are some pretty poor form questions to ask... I can write you a list, if you like?! Lol, we're still learning, and you only learn if you ask questions... (Will the list scare me?) I have no idea.... Depends on what you would consider scary!!! " 2nd guy(boy) we ever blocked asked us if the wife had a daughter so he could bang them both together-in txt speak!! We when active don't have separates policy on profile so would just answer the question without taking offence. | |||
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"Yes, lots of couples do play on their own, and they usually make this clear on their profiles, or early on in the conversation. I personally feel that, if we present ourselves as a couple, that is what is on offer. The reason it is insulting is because, as the OP has stated quite clearly, it is because she doesn't find one half of the couple attractive. It is rude to point that out to people. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand? This is not difficult to understand at all. A couple find each other attractive; they are looking to met others together and share their intimacy Then someone comes along as tells that that they don't find one attractive and only want to share intimacy with the other. It is insulating and someone who doesn't understand that ... " ... someone that doesn't understand that is quite possibly an android. Or extremely self centered | |||
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"We wouldn't reply to someone asking to meet just one of us we would simply block them." . . . You do realise that your profile says the female half will meet alone right? | |||
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"We wouldn't reply to someone asking to meet just one of us we would simply block them. . . . You do realise that your profile says the female half will meet alone right? " | |||
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"Yes, lots of couples do play on their own, and they usually make this clear on their profiles, or early on in the conversation. I personally feel that, if we present ourselves as a couple, that is what is on offer. The reason it is insulting is because, as the OP has stated quite clearly, it is because she doesn't find one half of the couple attractive. It is rude to point that out to people. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand? This is not difficult to understand at all. A couple find each other attractive; they are looking to met others together and share their intimacy Then someone comes along as tells that that they don't find one attractive and only want to share intimacy with the other. It is insulating and someone who doesn't understand that ... ... someone that doesn't understand that is quite possibly an android. Or extremely self centered" I don't understand it, so I'll put my hand up to being a self-centred android. It's a polite enquiry as to whether you meet/play in a certain way. No different to someone messaging me asking if I meet women or couples. It isn't an insult for me to say no, I'm not attracted to women. It's no different from ME messaging someone asking to meet and they say no thanks, they don't find me attractive. It's not an insult. If it's perceived as one (unless it's phrased rudely, obviously) then there's some seriously fragile egos at play. | |||
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" ... someone that doesn't understand that is quite possibly an android. Or extremely self centered" Or just lives life in a different way. I don't privilege my relationships over my solo experiences. Some people do, and I appreciate that, but I find it hard to understand. | |||
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"Yes, lots of couples do play on their own, and they usually make this clear on their profiles, or early on in the conversation. I personally feel that, if we present ourselves as a couple, that is what is on offer. The reason it is insulting is because, as the OP has stated quite clearly, it is because she doesn't find one half of the couple attractive. It is rude to point that out to people. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand? This is not difficult to understand at all. A couple find each other attractive; they are looking to met others together and share their intimacy Then someone comes along as tells that that they don't find one attractive and only want to share intimacy with the other. It is insulating and someone who doesn't understand that ... ... someone that doesn't understand that is quite possibly an android. Or extremely self centered I don't understand it, so I'll put my hand up to being a self-centred android. It's a polite enquiry as to whether you meet/play in a certain way. No different to someone messaging me asking if I meet women or couples. It isn't an insult for me to say no, I'm not attracted to women. It's no different from ME messaging someone asking to meet and they say no thanks, they don't find me attractive. It's not an insult. If it's perceived as one (unless it's phrased rudely, obviously) then there's some seriously fragile egos at play. " I think from reading the forums that this site has many seriously fragile egos. | |||
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" I think from reading the forums that this site has many seriously fragile egos." My own included, at times, but I never assume that the default position is people want to have sex with me and that anything else is an insult... | |||
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". Being insulted over someone else's personal preferences as to sexual attractiveness is a really quick way to lead a miserable life. " Additionally, I wouldn't assume that the question is coming from a place of non-attraction anyway! Unless a couple's profile specifically says they "don't meet separately", then it's a fair question like all the other possible questions that can be posed. This is a swing site for heavens sake - so implies people are open sexually - and surely meeting alone in addition to meeting as a couple is merely a further extension of that openness! Life is too short to spend it knotted up imagining what other people might be thinking AND it shouldn't be assumed that it has to do with one person being less attractive. In the OP's scenario it is the attraction factor, but many times it's likely just the mechanics of the scenario/fantasy the inquirer has in mind. | |||
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" I think from reading the forums that this site has many seriously fragile egos. My own included, at times, but I never assume that the default position is people want to have sex with me and that anything else is an insult... " You may not but again from reading the forums many people do. We're all coming at this from different experiences and expectations. | |||
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"Yes, lots of couples do play on their own, and they usually make this clear on their profiles, or early on in the conversation. I personally feel that, if we present ourselves as a couple, that is what is on offer. The reason it is insulting is because, as the OP has stated quite clearly, it is because she doesn't find one half of the couple attractive. It is rude to point that out to people. I don't understand why that is so hard to understand? This is not difficult to understand at all. A couple find each other attractive; they are looking to met others together and share their intimacy Then someone comes along as tells that that they don't find one attractive and only want to share intimacy with the other. It is insulating and someone who doesn't understand that ... ... someone that doesn't understand that is quite possibly an android. Or extremely self centered I don't understand it, so I'll put my hand up to being a self-centred android. It's a polite enquiry as to whether you meet/play in a certain way. No different to someone messaging me asking if I meet women or couples. It isn't an insult for me to say no, I'm not attracted to women. It's no different from ME messaging someone asking to meet and they say no thanks, they don't find me attractive. It's not an insult. If it's perceived as one (unless it's phrased rudely, obviously) then there's some seriously fragile egos at play. " I don't think that a couple presenting themselves as a couple, that have no verifications of them meeting separately, are in any way shape or form 'fragile' because they view someone not respecting that they're a unit - as rude | |||
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"I agree with Wasp_hunter" on this: . Being insulted over someone else's personal preferences as to sexual attractiveness is a really quick way to lead a miserable life. Additionally, I wouldn't assume that the question is coming from a place of non-attraction anyway! .. In the OP's scenario it is the attraction factor, but many times it's likely just the mechanics of the scenario/fantasy the inquirer has in mind. " We are replying to what the OP has stated in her OP, and to subsequent messages she has posted to this thread. So in this scenario, it is exactly the attraction factor we are debating. | |||
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"I just personally feel that I'd rather not possibly hurt someone else's feelings... I may be missing out on something great but I'd rather miss that than make someone else feel bad." | |||
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"I just personally feel that I'd rather not possibly hurt someone else's feelings... I may be missing out on something great but I'd rather miss that than make someone else feel bad." Being in the swinging scene they should be secure enough not to be hurt by rejection. I think women find rejection harder than men. | |||
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"I don't think anyone has the right to tell another person that the way they feel is invalid or wrong. " Completely agree. We are all different, after all. | |||
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"I have often read from couples that they find it difficult to find other couples to meet because they aren't attracted to both people. Just because one person finds another irresistible doesn't mean everyone else will,that shouldn't have to be said. Being insulted because someone doesn't fancy your wife/husband doesn't sound like a secure personality to me. Or do people enjoy being indignant? I don't know but I'm seeing it more and more on here." I think it's fine to find one attractive but not the other... Its when a couple presents themselves to a single offering a 3some situation and the single says sorry I don't fancy your missis but I'll fuck hubby on his own... That's not what was offered so I think they've got every right to be a bit miffed | |||
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"I don't think anyone has the right to tell another person that the way they feel is invalid or wrong. " | |||
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"Or do people enjoy being indignant? I don't know but I'm seeing it more and more on here." Another point I'd make (before I sod off to avoid 'insulting' anyone else ) is that a large number of those couples who contact me don't seem to present themselves as that much of a unit. Not all couples who post regularly on the forums do either, although I can think of notable exceptions. They rarely have a profile photo or indeed any photos of the two of them together. Sometimes I get sent face photos of just the female, and the male is relegated to being stunt cock in the corner of one shot. In that instance, no I don't really see how the couple are presenting themselves as a unit who want to share each other's intimacy with me; so it would be a perfectly valid enquiry to make as to whether the person they've sent me all the photos of meets alone. | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks." How about lipstick marks? | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks." Or don't feel someone's foot print as a boot print when it is not intended that way. | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks. How about lipstick marks? " Well now.... | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks. Or don't feel someone's foot print as a boot print when it is not intended that way. " Yeah that too, but you know what I'm trying to say x | |||
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"Or do people enjoy being indignant? I don't know but I'm seeing it more and more on here. Another point I'd make (before I sod off to avoid 'insulting' anyone else ) is that a large number of those couples who contact me don't seem to present themselves as that much of a unit. Not all couples who post regularly on the forums do either, although I can think of notable exceptions. They rarely have a profile photo or indeed any photos of the two of them together. Sometimes I get sent face photos of just the female, and the male is relegated to being stunt cock in the corner of one shot. In that instance, no I don't really see how the couple are presenting themselves as a unit who want to share each other's intimacy with me; so it would be a perfectly valid enquiry to make as to whether the person they've sent me all the photos of meets alone. " Exactly why I stopped looking for couples on here. I felt like I was only being asked to meet with the woman a majority of the time. I want a couple,man and woman. I didn't like saying to them sorry I don't find the woman attractive enough to have sex with for you to watch. | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks. Or don't feel someone's foot print as a boot print when it is not intended that way. Yeah that too, but you know what I'm trying to say x" May I ask how you think people feel when you turn them down? | |||
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"I have often read from couples that they find it difficult to find other couples to meet because they aren't attracted to both people. Just because one person finds another irresistible doesn't mean everyone else will,that shouldn't have to be said. Being insulted because someone doesn't fancy your wife/husband doesn't sound like a secure personality to me. Or do people enjoy being indignant? I don't know but I'm seeing it more and more on here. I think it's fine to find one attractive but not the other... Its when a couple presents themselves to a single offering a 3some situation and the single says sorry I don't fancy your missis but I'll fuck hubby on his own... That's not what was offered so I think they've got every right to be a bit miffed" Absolutely! | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks. Or don't feel someone's foot print as a boot print when it is not intended that way. Yeah that too, but you know what I'm trying to say x May I ask how you think people feel when you turn them down? " I'm sure they aren't heartbroken!!! But my point is that I don't turn them down and then ask to set me up with their best mate! | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks. Or don't feel someone's foot print as a boot print when it is not intended that way. Yeah that too, but you know what I'm trying to say x May I ask how you think people feel when you turn them down? I'm sure they aren't heartbroken!!! But my point is that I don't turn them down and then ask to set me up with their best mate!" This pretty much sums up the entire thrust of my argument! Thank you! | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks. Or don't feel someone's foot print as a boot print when it is not intended that way. Yeah that too, but you know what I'm trying to say x May I ask how you think people feel when you turn them down? I'm sure they aren't heartbroken!!! But my point is that I don't turn them down and then ask to set me up with their best mate! This pretty much sums up the entire thrust of my argument! Thank you! " That would assume though that the person you're 'turning down' is the one in control of the profile. In that respect I guess that the one in control of the profile might be the protective one. And indeed since I'm usually asking if the woman in the couple is interested in meeting, it's generally the male in charge who gets shitty back. Oh for a site that allows two people to login and control the profile and read ALL messages... and for both to have to approve any messages that are sent... with no ability to delete messages. | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks. Or don't feel someone's foot print as a boot print when it is not intended that way. Yeah that too, but you know what I'm trying to say x May I ask how you think people feel when you turn them down? I'm sure they aren't heartbroken!!! But my point is that I don't turn them down and then ask to set me up with their best mate! This pretty much sums up the entire thrust of my argument! Thank you! That would assume though that the person you're 'turning down' is the one in control of the profile. In that respect I guess that the one in control of the profile might be the protective one. And indeed since I'm usually asking if the woman in the couple is interested in meeting, it's generally the male in charge who gets shitty back. Oh for a site that allows two people to login and control the profile and read ALL messages... and for both to have to approve any messages that are sent... with no ability to delete messages." That's another discussion entirely... But it doesn't matter who your asking to meet alone... The principle is still the same x | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks. Or don't feel someone's foot print as a boot print when it is not intended that way. Yeah that too, but you know what I'm trying to say x May I ask how you think people feel when you turn them down? I'm sure they aren't heartbroken!!! But my point is that I don't turn them down and then ask to set me up with their best mate!" Is your best mate on your profile looking for sex? If she was and someone messaged and said do either of you meet alone as I quite like the look of the red head (or whoever)? Would you feel like you had been booted in the back or would you say no we don't sorry,or would you tell your friend she's in with a shot? How good a friend are you? | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks. Or don't feel someone's foot print as a boot print when it is not intended that way. Yeah that too, but you know what I'm trying to say x May I ask how you think people feel when you turn them down? I'm sure they aren't heartbroken!!! But my point is that I don't turn them down and then ask to set me up with their best mate! Is your best mate on your profile looking for sex? If she was and someone messaged and said do either of you meet alone as I quite like the look of the red head (or whoever)? Would you feel like you had been booted in the back or would you say no we don't sorry,or would you tell your friend she's in with a shot? How good a friend are you? " If someone messaged us (let's say we have a ff profile that doesn't state we play alone) that we hadn't approached before and asked to meet separately there probably wouldn't be a problem. But if we had approached someone with the offer for a threesome and they only wanted one then I would certainly say do one and if my friend was a good friend I would hope they would do the same... Just like if a couple approached me for a threesome and I quite fancied her but not him... I'd politely decline because as a couple (unless indicated otherwise) your one unit. And to be honest I personally wouldn't feel comfortable playing with one half of any couple... But that's just me | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks. Or don't feel someone's foot print as a boot print when it is not intended that way. Yeah that too, but you know what I'm trying to say x May I ask how you think people feel when you turn them down? I'm sure they aren't heartbroken!!! But my point is that I don't turn them down and then ask to set me up with their best mate! Is your best mate on your profile looking for sex? If she was and someone messaged and said do either of you meet alone as I quite like the look of the red head (or whoever)? Would you feel like you had been booted in the back or would you say no we don't sorry,or would you tell your friend she's in with a shot? How good a friend are you? If someone messaged us (let's say we have a ff profile that doesn't state we play alone) that we hadn't approached before and asked to meet separately there probably wouldn't be a problem. But if we had approached someone with the offer for a threesome and they only wanted one then I would certainly say do one and if my friend was a good friend I would hope they would do the same... Just like if a couple approached me for a threesome and I quite fancied her but not him... I'd politely decline because as a couple (unless indicated otherwise) your one unit. And to be honest I personally wouldn't feel comfortable playing with one half of any couple... But that's just me " Some couples may play alone and not have it on their profile. Don't ask,don't find out do you. | |||
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" Some couples may play alone and not have it on their profile. Don't ask,don't find out do you. " Thats very true ... But as I said before I would rather not ask than risk hurting someone's feelings... Its happened to me before now and yes, the person in question wasn't exactly polite about me! So I guess it might be all in how you say it maybe, I dunno... I just know what I would do | |||
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" Some couples may play alone and not have it on their profile. Don't ask,don't find out do you. Thats very true ... But as I said before I would rather not ask than risk hurting someone's feelings... Its happened to me before now and yes, the person in question wasn't exactly polite about me! So I guess it might be all in how you say it maybe, I dunno... I just know what I would do " I just say something like 'I'm afraid I don't think all three of us would be compatible, but do you guys ever meet separately?' and then if they respond asking who I'm interested in then I say. I don't say 'would you meet separately because your boyfriend is a fucking ugly minger' or anything like that. | |||
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" Some couples may play alone and not have it on their profile. Don't ask,don't find out do you. Thats very true ... But as I said before I would rather not ask than risk hurting someone's feelings... Its happened to me before now and yes, the person in question wasn't exactly polite about me! So I guess it might be all in how you say it maybe, I dunno... I just know what I would do I just say something like 'I'm afraid I don't think all three of us would be compatible, but do you guys ever meet separately?' and then if they respond asking who I'm interested in then I say. I don't say 'would you meet separately because your boyfriend is a fucking ugly minger' or anything like that." Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that you were rude or anything... Please don't think that!! As I said I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't mind... I think it's just because of my own experience I might be more sensitive to it but I think quite a few others would too... I'm not saying people have a good reason to be miffed at you... Its just sometimes when it comes to feelings reason doesn't always come into it.. does that make any sense?!! Haha!! | |||
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"Just wondering if I can get peoples opinions on this. If a couple message me and - for some reason - I'm interested in one of them more than them as a couple unit, is it poor form to enquire politely if they consider meeting without each other? I've had mixed responses varying from 'yes, when would you like to get coffee?' to 'fuck you, how dare you suggest we would cheat on each other'. Is there a consensus I have missed because I come from the poly and fetish world to swinging?" we dont play seperatly but if we did and someone wanted to meet one of us, i think we would both have to meet for a coffee and get to know u and trust u, after all everthing is built around trust both for the people playing and also the husband, wife or partner thats sitting at home mr crazy | |||
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" Some couples may play alone and not have it on their profile. Don't ask,don't find out do you. Thats very true ... But as I said before I would rather not ask than risk hurting someone's feelings... Its happened to me before now and yes, the person in question wasn't exactly polite about me! So I guess it might be all in how you say it maybe, I dunno... I just know what I would do " I think that because I don't take things to heart and it's almost impossible to hurt my feelings on here I see it as ok to ask any question. | |||
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"My view - If they state they play separately, or direct you on the couples profile to their single profile, then no it isn't. Otherwise, yes, I think its poor form. Many single guys get lambasted and criticised for askingk if couples play separately, I see single females as no different. " From what I have read on the forums men don't always ask politely. If they did a polite no we don't would be warranted. | |||
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" I think that because I don't take things to heart and it's almost impossible to hurt my feelings on here I see it as ok to ask any question." So.. Because you feel a particular way, everybody else must also feel the same way? Don't think it works like that... | |||
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"I have often read from couples that they find it difficult to find other couples to meet because they aren't attracted to both people. Just because one person finds another irresistible doesn't mean everyone else will,that shouldn't have to be said. Being insulted because someone doesn't fancy your wife/husband doesn't sound like a secure personality to me. Or do people enjoy being indignant? I don't know but I'm seeing it more and more on here." | |||
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"Leave foot prints on people's lives... Not boot marks." Cats leave paw-prints on people's lives I do not think that I will find the following palatable: "You look nice but OMG, your kids look like cosmetic surgery is the only way out" Not suggesting that partners in a couple are the same but the feelings might be similar. And as such rejecting one and expecting the other to dump him/her for a romp in the sack is not nice, to say the least Don't know about the 'legal' position of such an enquiry but the human position will be, well, will depend on how stupid they feel the enquiry is | |||
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" I think that because I don't take things to heart and it's almost impossible to hurt my feelings on here I see it as ok to ask any question. So.. Because you feel a particular way, everybody else must also feel the same way? Don't think it works like that... " I didn't say anywhere that anyone had to do anything. I'm not a dictator. I was just explaining to people who may not understand how opinions work that mine are influenced by my ability to not have a hissy fit and cry when someone asks me a question. Drama doesn't go down well with me,you think what you like,I don't care | |||
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" I think that because I don't take things to heart and it's almost impossible to hurt my feelings on here I see it as ok to ask any question. So.. Because you feel a particular way, everybody else must also feel the same way? Don't think it works like that... I didn't say anywhere that anyone had to do anything. I'm not a dictator. I was just explaining to people who may not understand how opinions work that mine are influenced by my ability to not have a hissy fit and cry when someone asks me a question. Drama doesn't go down well with me,you think what you like,I don't care " But your response that people are "having a hissy fit" or needing to have a "cry" comes across as derogatory. Therefore, you are dictating how they should feel, because they don't echo your own "don't give a fuck" attitude. | |||
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" I think that because I don't take things to heart and it's almost impossible to hurt my feelings on here I see it as ok to ask any question. So.. Because you feel a particular way, everybody else must also feel the same way? Don't think it works like that... I didn't say anywhere that anyone had to do anything. I'm not a dictator. I was just explaining to people who may not understand how opinions work that mine are influenced by my ability to not have a hissy fit and cry when someone asks me a question. Drama doesn't go down well with me,you think what you like,I don't care But your response that people are "having a hissy fit" or needing to have a "cry" comes across as derogatory. Therefore, you are dictating how they should feel, because they don't echo your own "don't give a fuck" attitude." Unlike the suggestions above that everyone should "feel" outraged by people asking couples whether they play separately? | |||
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" I think that because I don't take things to heart and it's almost impossible to hurt my feelings on here I see it as ok to ask any question. So.. Because you feel a particular way, everybody else must also feel the same way? Don't think it works like that... I didn't say anywhere that anyone had to do anything. I'm not a dictator. I was just explaining to people who may not understand how opinions work that mine are influenced by my ability to not have a hissy fit and cry when someone asks me a question. Drama doesn't go down well with me,you think what you like,I don't care But your response that people are "having a hissy fit" or needing to have a "cry" comes across as derogatory. Therefore, you are dictating how they should feel, because they don't echo your own "don't give a fuck" attitude." Such hostility | |||
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"Fucking hell. I'm glad I'm not looking for couples....based on this thread.....making the much maligned single guy look good " | |||
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"Fucking hell. I'm glad I'm not looking for couples....based on this thread.....making the much maligned single guy look good " That's why I don't meet them Single guys are much more aprochable | |||
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" Such Hostility " | |||
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"Ironically I can see why people who state clearly "we only play alone" might be peeved, but as we know, this is NOT what the OP was suggesting, so I don't understand the drama. (I say 'ironically' because we have it on ours and we really wouldn't mind. What we felt 6 months ago when we wrote that may be different tomorrow; also because admittedly the 73rd man to say "can I feck you up the arse?" on any given day tends to get short shrift) Such Hostility " Couples who state clearly that they also meet separately would not be offended. Couples who do not state so or state that they don't, will most probably be offended by the OP's suggestion The OP's reason is that she finds one half of the couple unattractive and based on that, only wishes to meet the half which she considers attractive I would just simply move on than to hurt people, all for the sake of 27.3 minutes of my fun! | |||
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"Ironically I can see why people who state clearly "we only play alone" might be peeved, but as we know, this is NOT what the OP was suggesting, so I don't understand the drama. (I say 'ironically' because we have it on ours and we really wouldn't mind. What we felt 6 months ago when we wrote that may be different tomorrow; also because admittedly the 73rd man to say "can I feck you up the arse?" on any given day tends to get short shrift) Such Hostility Couples who state clearly that they also meet separately would not be offended. Couples who do not state so or state that they don't, will most probably be offended by the OP's suggestion The OP's reason is that she finds one half of the couple unattractive and based on that, only wishes to meet the half which she considers attractive I would just simply move on than to hurt people, all for the sake of 27.3 minutes of my fun! " | |||
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"Fucking hell. I'm glad I'm not looking for couples....based on this thread.....making the much maligned single guy look good " | |||
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""Such hostility". Okay. The OP asked for couples opinions about what we thought on the subject of asking one half of a couple to play because she finds the other half unnatractive. She has been given answers that say we find it disagreeable. The debate has extended to asking why it's disagreeable, and that question has also been answered. We have then been told that we are insecure, having a hissy fit and that we need a cry, because this is our opinion. I haven't been rude to anyone on this thread, and yet I'm supposed to put up with that?! And not start to get a little hostile? Come on. " I wouldn't take it personally, I've been indirectly called an android, rude and stupid for not thinking the same way as some others on the thread. I don't know any of you people (although interestingly, have been messaged by some of the couples on this thread, despite being straight and my profile indicating I'm not looking for couples....) so really who gives a fuck? It's a debate, people have different views, why let strangers on the Internet rile you? | |||
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" So.. Because you feel a particular way, everybody else must also feel the same way? Don't think it works like that... " You did make that same assumption yourself a little further up the thread, mind you. | |||
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" So.. Because you feel a particular way, everybody else must also feel the same way? Don't think it works like that... You did make that same assumption yourself a little further up the thread, mind you. " Hey! I'm right about everything, always. Fact!!! | |||
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""Such hostility". Okay. The OP asked for couples opinions about what we thought on the subject of asking one half of a couple to play because she finds the other half unnatractive. She has been given answers that say we find it disagreeable. The debate has extended to asking why it's disagreeable, and that question has also been answered. We have then been told that we are insecure, having a hissy fit and that we need a cry, because this is our opinion. I haven't been rude to anyone on this thread, and yet I'm supposed to put up with that?! And not start to get a little hostile? Come on. I wouldn't take it personally, I've been indirectly called an android, rude and stupid for not thinking the same way as some others on the thread. I don't know any of you people (although interestingly, have been messaged by some of the couples on this thread, despite being straight and my profile indicating I'm not looking for couples....) so really who gives a fuck? It's a debate, people have different views, why let strangers on the Internet rile you? " Yeah... Good point... Note to self - have a cup of coffee and a chill before replying to opinions of strangers off the internet! | |||
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" So.. Because you feel a particular way, everybody else must also feel the same way? Don't think it works like that... You did make that same assumption yourself a little further up the thread, mind you. Hey! I'm right about everything, always. Fact!!! " That's the beauty of the forum here...we all get it right, all the time. It's a wonder we haven't solved more of the world's problems! | |||
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" (Although I get plenty of messages from men on couples profiles asking to meet alone...)" That makes me think they are not really a couple and I would feel the same if it was the woman to a guy too | |||
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" I think it wrong when they ask me that and find it sneaky would they like there other half to be asking " In my case... yes... I encourage my partners to play with as many people as they want to play with... None of my partners are committed exclusively to me... which is why I said in the OP I'm coming at this from angle and sometimes I struggle to understand the nuances of swinging. | |||
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"Fucking hell. I'm glad I'm not looking for couples....based on this thread.....making the much maligned single guy look good " | |||
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" (Although I get plenty of messages from men on couples profiles asking to meet alone...) That makes me think they are not really a couple and I would feel the same if it was the woman to a guy too" The difference would be that most guys being contacted by the woman of a couple wanting them to meet her alone would probably cause them to throw their hats in the air! | |||
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""Such hostility". Okay. The OP asked for couples opinions about what we thought on the subject of asking one half of a couple to play because she finds the other half unnatractive. She has been given answers that say we find it disagreeable. The debate has extended to asking why it's disagreeable, and that question has also been answered. We have then been told that we are insecure, having a hissy fit and that we need a cry, because this is our opinion. I haven't been rude to anyone on this thread, and yet I'm supposed to put up with that?! And not start to get a little hostile? Come on. " You're more than welcome to your own opinion, however you are coming across as more than a little preachy about it - I understand that you have a particular way of doing things, but the tone of your replies is making it sound like anyone who has a different opinion is just wrong. You're also taking lots of things as a personal attack on you both when clearly people aren't intending it that way (and in some cases aren't even talking about you). | |||
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""Such hostility". Okay. The OP asked for couples opinions about what we thought on the subject of asking one half of a couple to play because she finds the other half unnatractive. She has been given answers that say we find it disagreeable. The debate has extended to asking why it's disagreeable, and that question has also been answered. We have then been told that we are insecure, having a hissy fit and that we need a cry, because this is our opinion. I haven't been rude to anyone on this thread, and yet I'm supposed to put up with that?! And not start to get a little hostile? Come on. I wouldn't take it personally, I've been indirectly called an android, rude and stupid for not thinking the same way as some others on the thread. I don't know any of you people (although interestingly, have been messaged by some of the couples on this thread, despite being straight and my profile indicating I'm not looking for couples....) so really who gives a fuck? It's a debate, people have different views, why let strangers on the Internet rile you? Yeah... Good point... Note to self - have a cup of coffee and a chill before replying to opinions of strangers off the internet! " | |||
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