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the best way to lick pussy

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

i love. to lick on the clit. and work. my way. down to there. hole and go deep as can and than. work my way back. to her clit. mmmm

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By *xxjamCouple
over a year ago

Wakefield


"i love. to lick on the clit. and work. my way. down to there. hole and go deep as can and than. work my way back. to her clit. mmmm "

This A Question? or a statement on how you do your thing haha ??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does the RSPCA know about this

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"i love. to lick on the clit. and work. my way. down to there. hole and go deep as can and than. work my way back. to her clit. mmmm

This A Question? or a statement on how you do your thing haha ?? "

how do you like to do it or have it done. to you

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By *he ProletariatMan
over a year ago

axminster

I'm rubbish at it

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By *xxjamCouple
over a year ago

Wakefield


"i love. to lick on the clit. and work. my way. down to there. hole and go deep as can and than. work my way back. to her clit. mmmm

This A Question? or a statement on how you do your thing haha ?? how do you like to do it or have it done. to you"

everyone has there on style. me personally like it to start slow and build up from that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fumble about with me tongue . Listen for a moan . Bingo

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Fumble about with me tongue . Listen for a moan . Bingo "

is she playing bingo. or you and is it not off putting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fumble about with me tongue . Listen for a moan . Bingo

is she playing bingo. or you and is it not off putting "

not if its a full house

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"Fumble about with me tongue . Listen for a moan . Bingo "

Find the clit: 26

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By *xxjamCouple
over a year ago

Wakefield


"Fumble about with me tongue . Listen for a moan . Bingo

is she playing bingo. or you and is it not off putting not if its a full house "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I love it when they love it !! Bury their face and stay there ages

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By *eminiman61Man
over a year ago

mansfield

Every woman's different prob like guys. Some like soft n gentle and slow others like it rougher and fast. I always say tell me if I'm doing it right or guide me how you like it, mostly you can tell by how her body responds. Most ppl seem to be in a rush.

I like to take my time, kissing and caressing then explore with my fingers then follow it up with my tongue lips and teeth. Exploring ALL her body, then after teasing and caressing. I'll start at the feet working my way up her leg slowly, maybe breathe lock or kiss her clit n pussy but only briefly. Go back up to her tits n nips and tease, lots of passionate kisses. Then work my way down again, same thing but different legs. Mostly they're gagging for it by now but make em wait. Sometimes I'll add a blindfold to heighten her senses

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Every woman's different prob like guys. Some like soft n gentle and slow others like it rougher and fast. I always say tell me if I'm doing it right or guide me how you like it, mostly you can tell by how her body responds. Most ppl seem to be in a rush.

I like to take my time, kissing and caressing then explore with my fingers then follow it up with my tongue lips and teeth. Exploring ALL her body, then after teasing and caressing. I'll start at the feet working my way up her leg slowly, maybe breathe lock or kiss her clit n pussy but only briefly. Go back up to her tits n nips and tease, lots of passionate kisses. Then work my way down again, same thing but different legs. Mostly they're gagging for it by now but make em wait. Sometimes I'll add a blindfold to heighten her senses "

mmmmmmmmmm a man who knows what hes doing and doesn't need a sat nav or grid reference.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I love it when they love it !! Bury their face and stay there ages

"

that's. me

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By *xxjamCouple
over a year ago

Wakefield


"Every woman's different prob like guys. Some like soft n gentle and slow others like it rougher and fast. I always say tell me if I'm doing it right or guide me how you like it, mostly you can tell by how her body responds. Most ppl seem to be in a rush.

I like to take my time, kissing and caressing then explore with my fingers then follow it up with my tongue lips and teeth. Exploring ALL her body, then after teasing and caressing. I'll start at the feet working my way up her leg slowly, maybe breathe lock or kiss her clit n pussy but only briefly. Go back up to her tits n nips and tease, lots of passionate kisses. Then work my way down again, same thing but different legs. Mostly they're gagging for it by now but make em wait. Sometimes I'll add a blindfold to heighten her senses

mmmmmmmmmm a man who knows what hes doing and doesn't need a sat nav or grid reference. "

Haha love that A Grid Reference haha

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By *eminiman61Man
over a year ago

mansfield


"Every woman's different prob like guys. Some like soft n gentle and slow others like it rougher and fast. I always say tell me if I'm doing it right or guide me how you like it, mostly you can tell by how her body responds. Most ppl seem to be in a rush.

I like to take my time, kissing and caressing then explore with my fingers then follow it up with my tongue lips and teeth. Exploring ALL her body, then after teasing and caressing. I'll start at the feet working my way up her leg slowly, maybe breathe lock or kiss her clit n pussy but only briefly. Go back up to her tits n nips and tease, lots of passionate kisses. Then work my way down again, same thing but different legs. Mostly they're gagging for it by now but make em wait. Sometimes I'll add a blindfold to heighten her senses

mmmmmmmmmm a man who knows what hes doing and doesn't need a sat nav or grid reference. "

The best is yet to come, obviously this was just a starter.... main course and dessert to follow

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've found every woman is completely different so a guy can't rely on just one style. He has to be adaptive and learn quickly what works best for the lady he is with. It is a lump of meat you are licking, it's a person, a unique person, and it's about giving them pleasure in the best way that suits them.

Does that make sense?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't like a little lick here or a little lick there if you are going to eat me get your face in there and enjoy......recently tried face sitting hell that's so horny

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sometimes it's good to ask how she likes it. You may not need to as she may direct you to "the spot" but I've always often found it's the latter.

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By *eminiman61Man
over a year ago

mansfield


"I've found every woman is completely different so a guy can't rely on just one style. He has to be adaptive and learn quickly what works best for the lady he is with. It is a lump of meat you are licking, it's a person, a unique person, and it's about giving them pleasure in the best way that suits them.

Does that make sense? "

It'd make more sense if you put it's NOT a piece of meat lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've found every woman is completely different so a guy can't rely on just one style. He has to be adaptive and learn quickly what works best for the lady he is with. It is NOT a lump of meat you are licking, it's a person, a unique person, and it's about giving them pleasure in the best way that suits them.

Does that make sense?

It'd make more sense if you put it's NOT a piece of meat lol "

Oh Flip!

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By *.nottsbloke..Man
over a year ago

the vale


"Fumble about with me tongue . Listen for a moan . Bingo "

Do you use a dobber ?

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By *eminiman61Man
over a year ago

mansfield


"I've found every woman is completely different so a guy can't rely on just one style. He has to be adaptive and learn quickly what works best for the lady he is with. It is NOT a lump of meat you are licking, it's a person, a unique person, and it's about giving them pleasure in the best way that suits them.

Does that make sense?

It'd make more sense if you put it's NOT a piece of meat lol

Oh Flip! "

Happy to help buddy I'd have said she's not a lump of meat but it reads much better now. It's a Monday and still early.

That's the problem with some mem and women a shags a shag, enjoy every meet and give 100% It's better for all parties

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fumble about with me tongue . Listen for a moan . Bingo

Do you use a dobber ?"

Lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I love it when they love it !! Bury their face and stay there ages

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fumble about with me tongue . Listen for a moan . Bingo

Do you use a dobber ?

Lol "

yeah a big one with a purplish end

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fumble about with me tongue . Listen for a moan . Bingo

Do you use a dobber ?

Lol yeah a big one with a purplish end "

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"i love. to lick on the clit. and work. my way. down to there. hole and go deep as can and than. work my way back. to her clit. mmmm "

So you're a one trick pony, you have you're game plan and don't vary it from woman to woman?!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Does the RSPCA know about this "

lol

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By *hunderstruckMan
over a year ago

Northampton

I like to use my fingers and tongue mmmm

I usually like to suck her clit and labia too mm

Then alternate my tongue licking her clit , to flicking over it mmm

Also in a good 69 position I will lick and suck a clit while burying my nose in her pussy mmm

Need a snorkel for this technique lol

I can eat a pussy for hours

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fumble about with me tongue . Listen for a moan . Bingo "

as long as it's a sexual moan! lol

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By *olwaySonarMan
over a year ago

Carlisle

Using your tongue to write out the alphabet on her foof has had some rewarding moments for me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I treat every pussy like getting the cream out of a caburys cream egg

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've found every woman is completely different so a guy can't rely on just one style. He has to be adaptive and learn quickly what works best for the lady he is with. It is a lump of meat you are licking, it's a person, a unique person, and it's about giving them pleasure in the best way that suits them.

Does that make sense? "

i think you meant that it ISN'T a lump of meat you are licking

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Very wet and softly, at first at least.

I have a tiny clit (map and magnifying glass will be provided) but it's supersensitive so lots of lubrication and not too much direct contact. Licking my clit upwards is actually way too much for me.

It's difficult to get it right if a guy doesn't know me. But not impossible.

The next woman will be different.

And the next woman will be different

And the................

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've found every woman is completely different so a guy can't rely on just one style. He has to be adaptive and learn quickly what works best for the lady he is with. It is a lump of meat you are licking, it's a person, a unique person, and it's about giving them pleasure in the best way that suits them.

Does that make sense?

i think you meant that it ISN'T a lump of meat you are licking"

Are you sure

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By *anny.Man
over a year ago

Coventry

People always ask me what the secret to being amazing at licking pussy and making all the girls cum. The only answer is that I love doing it. You can really tell the difference between someone who loves doing it and someone who's just doing it because they think they have to.

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By *ercedes_SLKMan
over a year ago

nottingham

This is the cream egg question....

Each is different

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"People always ask me what the secret to being amazing at licking pussy and making all the girls cum. The only answer is that I love doing it. You can really tell the difference between someone who loves doing it and someone who's just doing it because they think they have to. "

Just like a bj then

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By *3xymamaWoman
over a year ago

Uptown Top Ranking


"People always ask me what the secret to being amazing at licking pussy and making all the girls cum. The only answer is that I love doing it. You can really tell the difference between someone who loves doing it and someone who's just doing it because they think they have to. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is the cream egg question....

Each is different"

oh yeah . The famous . Egg or the cream question . Oh

No thats chicken or egg

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I love it when they love it !! Bury their face and stay there ages

"

Omg, wish I lived in fairyland, I'd happily bury my face in your pussy till you asked me to move out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I love it when they love it !! Bury their face and stay there ages

Omg, wish I lived in fairyland, I'd happily bury my face in your pussy till you asked me to move out "

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Totally agree with a guy that said every women is different how they like it. Ask the woman how they like it and you can not go far wrong

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've found that some women's clits are so sensitive almost painful, it's too much to lay into it, so just tease around the edges when that's the case. I like to tongue fuck. Think the post that says listen for the moan is probably the best guide, but certainly all different. I always ask what they like. Generally though, I use my tongue

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By *hunderstruckMan
over a year ago

Northampton


"Using your tongue to write out the alphabet on her foof has had some rewarding moments for me "

If your educated licker you could do the Greek alphabet

What's a foof btw ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've found that some women's clits are so sensitive almost painful, it's too much to lay into it, so just tease around the edges when that's the case. I like to tongue fuck. Think the post that says listen for the moan is probably the best guide, but certainly all different. I always ask what they like. Generally though, I use my tongue "

That sounds good

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Totally agree with a guy that said every women is different how they like it. Ask the woman how they like it and you can not go far wrong"

welcome i am asking. how do you like. yours licked

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I pretend I'm eating the white fluff out of a walnut whip. Gently and covering all areas

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fumble about with me tongue . Listen for a moan . Bingo

Do you use a dobber ?

Lol yeah a big one with a purplish end "

Ah I've been looking for my purple dobber.....!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fumble about with me tongue . Listen for a moan . Bingo

Do you use a dobber ?

Lol yeah a big one with a purplish end

Ah I've been looking for my purple dobber.....! "

come and reclaim it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Totally agree with a guy that said every women is different how they like it. Ask the woman how they like it and you can not go far wrong

welcome i am asking. how do you like. yours licked "

I like attention paid to my clit

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By *bony in IvoryCouple
over a year ago

Black&White Utopia


"People always ask me what the secret to being amazing at licking pussy and making all the girls cum. The only answer is that I love doing it. You can really tell the difference between someone who loves doing it and someone who's just doing it because they think they have to. "
so so true! And likewise a man must know the difference between a woman who is suckin his cock cos she propa loves it and wants it , or one who kinda going thro the motions and putting zero effort into it. Oral sex aint every ones thing, I would much rather be told that than have them lappin away like they tickeling a natts knee cap!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find my technique varies from lady to lady... Follow their lead, their responses, their body language. When you feel a nice wet gush you know you have it right....

Check my verifications....only complaint has been making them come too much or leaving them in over sensitive mode....is that actually a problem?

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By *uestandpinkCouple
over a year ago

Northampton


"Does the RSPCA know about this "

lmao at that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I find my technique varies from lady to lady... Follow their lead, their responses, their body language. When you feel a nice wet gush you know you have it right....

Check my verifications....only complaint has been making them come too much or leaving them in over sensitive mode....is that actually a problem?"

Well im over-sensitive naturally, problem is a word I'd not use but lick my clit upwards at all and my right leg jerks like a reflex, very amusing I know but it feels pretty unpleasant having an over-sensitive clit stimulated .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"People always ask me what the secret to being amazing at licking pussy and making all the girls cum. The only answer is that I love doing it. You can really tell the difference between someone who loves doing it and someone who's just doing it because they think they have to. "

That's very true and it goes for a bj too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've found that some women's clits are so sensitive almost painful, it's too much to lay into it, so just tease around the edges when that's the case. I like to tongue fuck. Think the post that says listen for the moan is probably the best guide, but certainly all different. I always ask what they like. Generally though, I use my tongue "

That's a mighty fine thing to use I say

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I find my technique varies from lady to lady... Follow their lead, their responses, their body language. When you feel a nice wet gush you know you have it right....

Check my verifications....only complaint has been making them come too much or leaving them in over sensitive mode....is that actually a problem?

Well im over-sensitive naturally, problem is a word I'd not use but lick my clit upwards at all and my right leg jerks like a reflex, very amusing I know but it feels pretty unpleasant having an over-sensitive clit stimulated . "

Read your posts and think we might be twins, my responses are almost identical!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I find my technique varies from lady to lady... Follow their lead, their responses, their body language. When you feel a nice wet gush you know you have it right....

Check my verifications....only complaint has been making them come too much or leaving them in over sensitive mode....is that actually a problem?

Well im over-sensitive naturally, problem is a word I'd not use but lick my clit upwards at all and my right leg jerks like a reflex, very amusing I know but it feels pretty unpleasant having an over-sensitive clit stimulated .

Read your posts and think we might be twins, my responses are almost identical!! "

Is it naughty to want to fuck my twin then?

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By *exy panther 1974Woman
over a year ago

Anywhere and everywhere


"Does the RSPCA know about this "

Lmao

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

With your tongue

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I find my technique varies from lady to lady... Follow their lead, their responses, their body language. When you feel a nice wet gush you know you have it right....

Check my verifications....only complaint has been making them come too much or leaving them in over sensitive mode....is that actually a problem?

Well im over-sensitive naturally, problem is a word I'd not use but lick my clit upwards at all and my right leg jerks like a reflex, very amusing I know but it feels pretty unpleasant having an over-sensitive clit stimulated .

Read your posts and think we might be twins, my responses are almost identical!!

Is it naughty to want to fuck my twin then?"

Not at all but I was actually referring to Mrs D's quote!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I find my technique varies from lady to lady... Follow their lead, their responses, their body language. When you feel a nice wet gush you know you have it right....

Check my verifications....only complaint has been making them come too much or leaving them in over sensitive mode....is that actually a problem?

Well im over-sensitive naturally, problem is a word I'd not use but lick my clit upwards at all and my right leg jerks like a reflex, very amusing I know but it feels pretty unpleasant having an over-sensitive clit stimulated .

Read your posts and think we might be twins, my responses are almost identical!!

Is it naughty to want to fuck my twin then?

Not at all but I was actually referring to Mrs D's quote!! "

Hehe having just come back to the thread it's interesting to know someone else might worry they'll kick someone in the bollocks if someone goes at their clit the wrong way, and not ever because I want to!

A guy used to beg me to kick him in the balls......ouch.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I find my technique varies from lady to lady... Follow their lead, their responses, their body language. When you feel a nice wet gush you know you have it right....

Check my verifications....only complaint has been making them come too much or leaving them in over sensitive mode....is that actually a problem?

Well im over-sensitive naturally, problem is a word I'd not use but lick my clit upwards at all and my right leg jerks like a reflex, very amusing I know but it feels pretty unpleasant having an over-sensitive clit stimulated .

Read your posts and think we might be twins, my responses are almost identical!!

Is it naughty to want to fuck my twin then?

Not at all but I was actually referring to Mrs D's quote!!

Hehe having just come back to the thread it's interesting to know someone else might worry they'll kick someone in the bollocks if someone goes at their clit the wrong way, and not ever because I want to!

A guy used to beg me to kick him in the balls......ouch."

Ouch indeed! Did you oblige?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Using your tongue to write out the alphabet on her foof has had some rewarding moments for me "

that's a big foof if you can write the alphabet on it hee hee, you may need another tongue to help you with that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I find my technique varies from lady to lady... Follow their lead, their responses, their body language. When you feel a nice wet gush you know you have it right....

Check my verifications....only complaint has been making them come too much or leaving them in over sensitive mode....is that actually a problem?

Well im over-sensitive naturally, problem is a word I'd not use but lick my clit upwards at all and my right leg jerks like a reflex, very amusing I know but it feels pretty unpleasant having an over-sensitive clit stimulated .

Read your posts and think we might be twins, my responses are almost identical!!

Is it naughty to want to fuck my twin then?

Not at all but I was actually referring to Mrs D's quote!!

Hehe having just come back to the thread it's interesting to know someone else might worry they'll kick someone in the bollocks if someone goes at their clit the wrong way, and not ever because I want to!

A guy used to beg me to kick him in the balls......ouch.

Ouch indeed! Did you oblige?!"

God no the very thought of physically hurting someone makes me wince.

And frankly seeing a bloke lying on the floor in the foetal position clutching his balls and going ooooh yeah isn't an image that gets me moist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Every woman's different prob like guys. Some like soft n gentle and slow others like it rougher and fast. I always say tell me if I'm doing it right or guide me how you like it, mostly you can tell by how her body responds. Most ppl seem to be in a rush.

I like to take my time, kissing and caressing then explore with my fingers then follow it up with my tongue lips and teeth. Exploring ALL her body, then after teasing and caressing. I'll start at the feet working my way up her leg slowly, maybe breathe lock or kiss her clit n pussy but only briefly. Go back up to her tits n nips and tease, lots of passionate kisses. Then work my way down again, same thing but different legs. Mostly they're gagging for it by now but make em wait. Sometimes I'll add a blindfold to heighten her senses "

We love to play like this....its all about teasing and heightening the pleasures not just diving straight in. By the time my tongue is on her clit and two fingers are deep inside her she is on the edge of cumming hard. Love it,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and once you have found 'the' spot stick to it like glue!

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By *oumepartyMan
over a year ago

derbyshire

My kind of woman "face sitting"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

my EXmissus HATED it and she d never let my toung anywhere near her fanny.Since my divorce making up for a lot of wasted years muffing away.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Suck and swirl

;-) works every time .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't like a little lick here or a little lick there if you are going to eat me get your face in there and enjoy......recently tried face sitting hell that's so horny "
a woman with your curves is welcome to sit on my face anytime mmmm yummy xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Every woman's different prob like guys. Some like soft n gentle and slow others like it rougher and fast. I always say tell me if I'm doing it right or guide me how you like it, mostly you can tell by how her body responds. Most ppl seem to be in a rush.

I like to take my time, kissing and caressing then explore with my fingers then follow it up with my tongue lips and teeth. Exploring ALL her body, then after teasing and caressing. I'll start at the feet working my way up her leg slowly, maybe breathe lock or kiss her clit n pussy but only briefly. Go back up to her tits n nips and tease, lots of passionate kisses. Then work my way down again, same thing but different legs. Mostly they're gagging for it by now but make em wait. Sometimes I'll add a blindfold to heighten her senses "

Oh yes, that sounds absolutely divine!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The best way to lick pussy is with your tongue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i googled it one day to see the best way to do it , i tried it out and the girl squirted in like just over a min ,,, unreal job

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By *ing and RideCouple
over a year ago

stockport

Like my man does....cheesy and pathetic I know...but oh so true

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By *eminiman61Man
over a year ago

mansfield


"Every woman's different prob like guys. Some like soft n gentle and slow others like it rougher and fast. I always say tell me if I'm doing it right or guide me how you like it, mostly you can tell by how her body responds. Most ppl seem to be in a rush.

I like to take my time, kissing and caressing then explore with my fingers then follow it up with my tongue lips and teeth. Exploring ALL her body, then after teasing and caressing. I'll start at the feet working my way up her leg slowly, maybe breathe lock or kiss her clit n pussy but only briefly. Go back up to her tits n nips and tease, lots of passionate kisses. Then work my way down again, same thing but different legs. Mostly they're gagging for it by now but make em wait. Sometimes I'll add a blindfold to heighten her senses

Oh yes, that sounds absolutely divine!"

Glad you like

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I treat every pussy like getting the cream out of a caburys cream egg "

They brought out a fish flavoured creme egg?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I love this topic. The name implies it all.

There's nothing that gets a ladies attention more than nibbling your way down from her neck, around her nipples and over her naval, ever heading south but keeping eye contact at the sametime... watching the excitement and desire in her eyes... then as you get to her pelvis work around the outside first with your teasing tongue and sucking kisses before running your tongue up her labia splitting it in two as you go whilst still keeping eye contact... nibble and sick those lips to get the senses going.

Then there's the differentiator as some ladies love a fast lapping tingle on the tip of their clit while others like a pressured grind of the chin on their clit (make sure your chins super smooth though -stubble hurts)

Add some intensity to it and slide two fingers up the inside of her pelvis and press upwards.... watch out for the gush. (Keep those finger nails short!!!).

Go deep, go long, keep eye contact and share the enjoyment.

Oh and learn to breathe through your ears.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I treat every pussy like getting the cream out of a caburys cream egg

They brought out a fish flavoured creme egg? "

we don't all smell of fish !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I treat every pussy like getting the cream out of a caburys cream egg

They brought out a fish flavoured creme egg? "

Jesus, I haven't heard anyone say that since I was 13 and a lad walked round going 'smell my finger' Are you old enough to be on here son?

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By *oom For 1 MoreMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

No muff to tough I dive at 5

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