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" The priority of a true Dom/Domme is the wellbeing of the sub not to belittle or humiliate. That's my opinion obviously and I don't doubt there are those who will disagree!! " But some people enjoy that kink. Also anyone that's submissive needs to take responsibility for communicating well with said Dom/Domme.  | |||
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"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person. " So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ? | |||
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"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person. So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ?" Not in the submissives I've met on the Manchester scene. A D/s relationship requires communication and trust, not the Dominant doing what They want when They want without the consent of the submissive. | |||
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"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person. So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ?" In our case no, Nette is very much her own woman and knows exactly what she is looking for in a Sexual sense..Luckily for me she Enjoys what i do Gary | |||
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"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person. So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ?" I'm sure there is in some D/s relationships, just as there is in 'normal' relationships. | |||
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"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person. So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ? I'm sure there is in some D/s relationships, just as there is in 'normal' relationships. " Good point! | |||
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"I have met naturally Dom men, none have humiliated me but infact have been protective over me and my wellbeing, I just tend to feel naturally submissive to them. I have always had to be independent and look after myself, a Dom man can take that pressure off and I feel I can be girlie and protected. I don't think I have a low self esteem (lack some confidence at times but don't confuse submitting with letting a man take the piss out of me) I'm still new to D/s but I have discovered, I'm only submissive for the right men and its not forced. Men who think being pushy/bully is Dom or think I'm a push over tend to get a shock "
And agree with what femme has said in previous posts too! | |||
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"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person. So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ? Not in the submissives I've met on the Manchester scene. A D/s relationship requires communication and trust, not the Dominant doing what They want when They want without the consent of the submissive." I have 3 playrooms, one is an AB nursery, and one is a kennel, for puppy play. The men who visit tend to be in high power, responsible jobs, some employing many people, in their day to day life they are assertive, usually dominant Alpha male types. Mostly married with a family. For AB and puppy play they have to strip, let me wash them and dress them, and for 2 or 3 hours they have no control, no phone, no money, no power. The feedback I get from them is it re charges their batteries, releases stress and tension, I take my fav puppies to canal street in mcr, and they stay on all 4's, drink water from a dog bowl and let people stroke them. so no, subs don't have low self esteem, the opposite in fact ! | |||
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"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person. " Perfectly put | |||
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"iv always thought maybe subs have low self esteem and doms are women haters." A Dominant's role is to take care of the well-being of their submissive (men, women, cis gendered or transgendered can be submissives, its not just women) They can't do that if they hate the gender of their submissive. | |||
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" LOVE the reference to "Dim Doms" - there are so many of them out there who have no conception of what a Dom is and make themselves feel bigger by putting others down and as said they are bullies and not in the least bit Dom. " They have read too many 50 shades books. My last relationship ended over 3 years ago, he was a bully and abusive not Dom at all, infact so insecure he tried to make me insecure too. When infact it made me stronger, I submit through choice to men who just give off their Dominance without trying. Its the look they give me, the touch that makes me melt..... If a guy makes out he won't want me if I dont do what he tells me then he quickly gets kicked to the curb. It's only since discovering my submissive side, with the men who have just brought if out of me naturally, that I realised just how strong I really am. D/s isn't always about spanking etc to me that's more BDSM and you don't need to play D/s to enjoy a bit of punishment. Correct me if I'm wrong as I am still a novice and learning. | |||
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"I've met subs that have low self esteem.. they tend to be the ones that would accept a Velcro collar... But I think that it's not the norm. I like the comfort and protection and for me giving in to that and giving my control over is a release from having to be in control all the time. Anyone that has met me knows how strong and independent I can be, even when having a rough time. Yes I desire to utterly submit but it doesn't ruin me not to have it... I have the best of both worlds currently and don't submit outside of the bedroom which is a new thing for me... Yet I find that it works mostly.. I think that a good dominant would guide his sub to better self confidence and esteem. I'm confident in all areas except playing alone .. as I've found I prefer the respect that I'm given as a couple.. and the dynamics.. yet Lee is trying to guide me, but being the strong willed individual that I am, dominant or not, I'm going at my pace with it . " No they are not the ones that accept a velcro collar Cali, they are ones that have silver collars too, they come in all shapes and sizes and usually have difficulty functioning without their "Dom/Domme", those that need to be told how lovely they are 24/7, those that seek acceptance 24/7, so not exclusive to BDSM circles. Collaring isn't about the type of collar, its the meaning behind it. | |||
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"Can you please explain the reference to Velcro vs silver collars?" Collar snob..I am sure Cali will explain. | |||
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"Can you please explain the reference to Velcro vs silver collars?" I use Velcro collar to mean those that just accept it and it isn't earned or anything and they will swap to a new Dom and collar without any thought.. where as to me it would be a huge thing x | |||
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"I meant the ones that have such low self esteem that they will jump in with anyone.. accept the collar from the off etc.. in my experience they are girls that need picking up but because they don't care who often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down. I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc I know how important collars are.. same as I know I will never have one again.. but I was using it as the example and by Velcro I mean they swap dominants and collars often. " With respect Cali, a type of collar has nothing to do with how low someone's self esteem is, and rarely has an impact on how they feel about themselves.So if Lee asked you to marry him and he turned up with a half carat diamond ring would you feel bad as it wasnt a full carat one? | |||
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"often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down. I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc " I don't understand how this fits in with what was said above about subs being strong and about D/s relationships being based on trust and caring and having the subs' best interests at heart. | |||
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"often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down. I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc I don't understand how this fits in with what was said above about subs being strong and about D/s relationships being based on trust and caring and having the subs' best interests at heart." Simple, destructive mind games, to some who have dodgy self esteem anyway, it can crush, much the same as when a a none D/s relationship ends. | |||
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"often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down. I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc I don't understand how this fits in with what was said above about subs being strong and about D/s relationships being based on trust and caring and having the subs' best interests at heart." Because any Dom that picks up a sub then quickly drops Her/Him for a new model doesnt have their best interest at heart..and Vice Versa | |||
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"often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down. I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc I don't understand how this fits in with what was said above about subs being strong and about D/s relationships being based on trust and caring and having the subs' best interests at heart." As I said some subs arent... But most are strong and independent.. you have good and bad.. not all dominants do have their subs interests at heart.. I speak to ladies that do see themselves as totally lesser than the Dom.. yet some actually enjoy that.. look at how sissy subs like to be humiliated.. It's certainly not for me.... Yet plenty seem to love it.... All I'm saying is there will always be some that have low self-esteem but on the whole it takes a strong person to hand over control to another... But it's very rewarding and uplifting to do so.. | |||
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"I meant the ones that have such low self esteem that they will jump in with anyone.. accept the collar from the off etc.. in my experience they are girls that need picking up but because they don't care who often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down. I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc I know how important collars are.. same as I know I will never have one again.. but I was using it as the example and by Velcro I mean they swap dominants and collars often. With respect Cali, a type of collar has nothing to do with how low someone's self esteem is, and rarely has an impact on how they feel about themselves.So if Lee asked you to marry him and he turned up with a half carat diamond ring would you feel bad as it wasnt a full carat one?" your takin it too litterally.. a Velcro collar isn't a type of collar it's the name for someone that jumps from Dom to Dom.. a collar could be a piece of ribbon and still be important | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?" Yes I think they have low self esteem, | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, " Why is that then? | |||
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"I meant the ones that have such low self esteem that they will jump in with anyone.. accept the collar from the off etc.. in my experience they are girls that need picking up but because they don't care who often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down. I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc I know how important collars are.. same as I know I will never have one again.. but I was using it as the example and by Velcro I mean they swap dominants and collars often. With respect Cali, a type of collar has nothing to do with how low someone's self esteem is, and rarely has an impact on how they feel about themselves.So if Lee asked you to marry him and he turned up with a half carat diamond ring would you feel bad as it wasnt a full carat one? your takin it too litterally.. a Velcro collar isn't a type of collar it's the name for someone that jumps from Dom to Dom.. a collar could be a piece of ribbon and still be important" They are your words Cali not mine, I am aware of what it means, but thats not what you said in your post. | |||
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"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person. So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ? Not in the submissives I've met on the Manchester scene. A D/s relationship requires communication and trust, not the Dominant doing what They want when They want without the consent of the submissive." | |||
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" your takin it too litterally.. a Velcro collar isn't a type of collar it's the name for someone that jumps from Dom to Dom.. a collar could be a piece of ribbon and still be importantThey are your words Cali not mine, I am aware of what it means, but thats not what you said in your post." I think she means it as a metaphor. | |||
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"I meant the ones that have such low self esteem that they will jump in with anyone.. accept the collar from the off etc.. in my experience they are girls that need picking up but because they don't care who often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down. I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc I know how important collars are.. same as I know I will never have one again.. but I was using it as the example and by Velcro I mean they swap dominants and collars often. With respect Cali, a type of collar has nothing to do with how low someone's self esteem is, and rarely has an impact on how they feel about themselves.So if Lee asked you to marry him and he turned up with a half carat diamond ring would you feel bad as it wasnt a full carat one? your takin it too litterally.. a Velcro collar isn't a type of collar it's the name for someone that jumps from Dom to Dom.. a collar could be a piece of ribbon and still be importantThey are your words Cali not mine, I am aware of what it means, but thats not what you said in your post." It's exactly what I said.I know full well that s collar can be anything... To me Velcro collar is simply meaning someone that jumps doms and accepts collars like a new fashion accessory. In my experience these girls have low self esteem and will often be a risk to themselves... My friends new collar is a hand made friendship bracelet... It's amazing for her... A collar is symbolic... Velcro collar is a term used to explain the type of sub I described.. not a type of collar. Btw If Lee proposed I would laugh then leg it | |||
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" your takin it too litterally.. a Velcro collar isn't a type of collar it's the name for someone that jumps from Dom to Dom.. a collar could be a piece of ribbon and still be importantThey are your words Cali not mine, I am aware of what it means, but thats not what you said in your post. I think she means it as a metaphor. " I kind gathered that, but I am finding it interesting reading regarding what people think about those with low self esteem.  | |||
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"I meant the ones that have such low self esteem that they will jump in with anyone.. accept the collar from the off etc.. in my experience they are girls that need picking up but because they don't care who often end upwith dominants that will not bring them up but will use their lack of self esteem to keep them down. I've heard it when they tell me that no other dominant would want them.. that they are worthless...etc I know how important collars are.. same as I know I will never have one again.. but I was using it as the example and by Velcro I mean they swap dominants and collars often. With respect Cali, a type of collar has nothing to do with how low someone's self esteem is, and rarely has an impact on how they feel about themselves.So if Lee asked you to marry him and he turned up with a half carat diamond ring would you feel bad as it wasnt a full carat one? your takin it too litterally.. a Velcro collar isn't a type of collar it's the name for someone that jumps from Dom to Dom.. a collar could be a piece of ribbon and still be importantThey are your words Cali not mine, I am aware of what it means, but thats not what you said in your post. It's exactly what I said.I know full well that s collar can be anything... To me Velcro collar is simply meaning someone that jumps doms and accepts collars like a new fashion accessory. In my experience these girls have low self esteem and will often be a risk to themselves... My friends new collar is a hand made friendship bracelet... It's amazing for her... A collar is symbolic... Velcro collar is a term used to explain the type of sub I described.. not a type of collar. Btw If Lee proposed I would laugh then leg it " I find your last comment very difficult to believe, do you think you are not worthy? | |||
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" I find your last comment very difficult to believe, do you think you are not worthy? "Why on earth would I want to marry anyone again.. I have a play partnership because I don't Want or need a proper one.. besides If he proposed I'd think he was an imposter... It's not something that is ever a consideration.. I will never marry again.. because I don't wantto nothing to do with not being worthy.. | |||
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" I find your last comment very difficult to believe, do you think you are not worthy?
Why on earth would I want to marry anyone again.. I have a play partnership because I don't Want or need a proper one.. besides If he proposed I'd think he was an imposter... It's not something that is ever a consideration..
I will never marry again.. because I don't wantto nothing to do with not being worthy.."It was in the context of the thread to show how prosperous some attitudes are. | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then?" Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is | |||
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" I find your last comment very difficult to believe, do you think you are not worthy?
Why on earth would I want to marry anyone again.. I have a play partnership because I don't Want or need a proper one.. besides If he proposed I'd think he was an imposter... It's not something that is ever a consideration..
I will never marry again.. because I don't wantto nothing to do with not being worthy..It was in the context of the thread to show how prosperous some attitudes are. "Why is thinking that women that give no consideration to their safety or wellbeing by jumping doms prosperous? To me it shows low self esteem and they often admit themselves they feel worthless. So it was very valid point. | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is" How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... | |||
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"The topic of collars interests me, maybe I should start a new topic though. If a person is collared is it similar to a vanilla relationship and would it be 24/7 D/s? " We have no formal D/s relationship but I wear a collar daily, it is a sign of our relationship and commitment to one another. I will hold my hands up and say I used to be a collar snob, but from being active on the kink scene I am confident to say that a collar is unique to each couple as is its meaning. | |||
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"The topic of collars interests me, maybe I should start a new topic though. If a person is collared is it similar to a vanilla relationship and would it be 24/7 D/s? We have no formal D/s relationship but I wear a collar daily, it is a sign of our relationship and commitment to one another. I will hold my hands up and say I used to be a collar snob, but from being active on the kink scene I am confident to say that a collar is unique to each couple as is its meaning." Said better than me.. posting when tired should be banned | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is" Why should people Resist what they so obviously Enjoy ? | |||
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" I find your last comment very difficult to believe, do you think you are not worthy?
Why on earth would I want to marry anyone again.. I have a play partnership because I don't Want or need a proper one.. besides If he proposed I'd think he was an imposter... It's not something that is ever a consideration..
I will never marry again.. because I don't wantto nothing to do with not being worthy..It was in the context of the thread to show how prosperous some attitudes are.
Why is thinking that women that give no consideration to their safety or wellbeing by jumping doms prosperous? To me it shows low self esteem and they often admit themselves they feel worthless. So it was very valid point. "You dont need a dom or jump from one to another to feel worthless, when you split up with your ex dom, I remember all too well the threads you put up and how you said you felt, you said you could never submit again, yet you have, as you feel safer and more secure with a partner all be it slightly different dynamics, it didn't take long, have you ever stopped to think that could also be deemed as having low self esteem? | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... " Is it? And how do these relationships end? | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end?" Is your self esteem low? | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end?" How do normal relationships end? | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low?" No, is yours?? | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end? How do normal relationships end?" In very different ways, are yiu suggesting they are 'normal' relationships | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low? No, is yours?? " Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure! | |||
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"I have met naturally Dom men, none have humiliated me but infact have been protective over me and my wellbeing, I just tend to feel naturally submissive to them. I have always had to be independent and look after myself, a Dom man can take that pressure off and I feel I can be girlie and protected. I don't think I have a low self esteem (lack some confidence at times but don't confuse submitting with letting a man take the piss out of me) I'm still new to D/s but I have discovered, I'm only submissive for the right men and its not forced. Men who think being pushy/bully is Dom or think I'm a push over tend to get a shock " | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low? No, is yours?? Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure! "So looking to meet today is a sign of low self esteem? Really? Do you know what low self esteem means, you need to explain ? | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low? No, is yours?? Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure!
So looking to meet today is a sign of low self esteem? Really? Do you know what low self esteem means, you need to explain ?"I don't need to explain at all, I have never done a meet today, so can only guess why,just the same as you are guessing about women who are submissive, things can be misconstrued, are you getting my point yet? | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low? No, is yours?? Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure!
So looking to meet today is a sign of low self esteem? Really? Do you know what low self esteem means, you need to explain ?I don't need to explain at all, I have never done a meet today, so can only guess why,just the same as you are guessing about women who are submissive, things can be misconstrued, are you getting my point yet? "No, I will be blunt, your talking crap, I answered the OPs questions, what is your answer? | |||
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"A meet today = low self esteem? "Yes, apparently, I understand what she was trying to imply, but if you don't have an opinion on a subject it's very difficult to criticise someone who has | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low? No, is yours?? Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure!
So looking to meet today is a sign of low self esteem? Really? Do you know what low self esteem means, you need to explain ?I don't need to explain at all, I have never done a meet today, so can only guess why,just the same as you are guessing about women who are submissive, things can be misconstrued, are you getting my point yet?
No, I will be blunt, your talking crap, I answered the OPs questions, what is your answer?"I will be Blunt, YOUR talking crap by accusing those of us that enjoy that way of life Ridiculous and Degraded Gary | |||
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"The topic of collars interests me, maybe I should start a new topic though. If a person is collared is it similar to a vanilla relationship and would it be 24/7 D/s? We have no formal D/s relationship but I wear a collar daily, it is a sign of our relationship and commitment to one another. I will hold my hands up and say I used to be a collar snob, but from being active on the kink scene I am confident to say that a collar is unique to each couple as is its meaning." Thank you, I guess it's not one size fits all. As I only play at D/s and I am completely single, collaring is the unknown.
Not sure I like the idea of it being 24/7 but I never say never, if I met the right Dom.... | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low? No, is yours?? Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure!
So looking to meet today is a sign of low self esteem? Really? Do you know what low self esteem means, you need to explain ?I don't need to explain at all, I have never done a meet today, so can only guess why,just the same as you are guessing about women who are submissive, things can be misconstrued, are you getting my point yet?
No, I will be blunt, your talking crap, I answered the OPs questions, what is your answer?
I will be Blunt, YOUR talking crap by accusing those of us that enjoy that way of life Ridiculous and Degraded
Gary"Firstly your entitled to your opinion , and I am entitled to mine, secondly 'why' do you engage in such relationships?? | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end?Is your self esteem low? No, is yours?? Well some may think being on meet today is a sign of low self esteem as you cannot get a meet, some would say its an extra opportunity to meet someone at short notice...go figure!
So looking to meet today is a sign of low self esteem? Really? Do you know what low self esteem means, you need to explain ?I don't need to explain at all, I have never done a meet today, so can only guess why,just the same as you are guessing about women who are submissive, things can be misconstrued, are you getting my point yet?
No, I will be blunt, your talking crap, I answered the OPs questions, what is your answer?
I will be Blunt, YOUR talking crap by accusing those of us that enjoy that way of life Ridiculous and Degraded
Gary
Firstly your entitled to your opinion , and I am entitled to mine, secondly 'why' do you engage in such relationships??"Of course your entitled to an opinion thats what these forums are about but as Rugby just said it should be kept Civil. We engage in our relationship because we both get what we want out of it and we are Happy and Nette is far from Ridiculous nor does she feel Degraded in anyway | |||
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"A meet today = low self esteem?
Yes, apparently, I understand what she was trying to imply, but if you don't have an opinion on a subject it's very difficult to criticise someone who has"I am glad you understand the implication. | |||
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"A meet today = low self esteem?
Yes, apparently, I understand what she was trying to imply, but if you don't have an opinion on a subject it's very difficult to criticise someone who hasI am glad you understand the implication. "I do, shame you used such a terrible example, also what's is your opinion on the sub/dom relationship | |||
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"Low self esteem? I don't think so.. Nette "Tbh your example of sub/dom play is very different as your a couple in a 'conventional' so to speak relationship, it's the more hard core sub/dims I was referring to. | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is" I think your probably right, it is a bit ridiculous. i became interested in it a few years ago, then when i started meeting different men for sex i realised that i didnt need anything more than straight sex to enjoy myself. | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end?" Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail? | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end? Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail?" Yes | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end? Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail? Yes" And presumably all vanilla ones live happily ever after? | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end? Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail? Yes And presumably all vanilla ones live happily ever after? " Did I say that | |||
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"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s! " I met one once, and i have been contacted by a few on this site and on alt to know they arent my type. 
i have found a few seem to be a bit selfish and inadequate, of course i may be wrong and its just my opinion. | |||
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"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s! " And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed. | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end? Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail? Yes And presumably all vanilla ones live happily ever after? Did I say that" No, but it is no more ridiculous a claim than the previous one you made about D/s relationships being destined to fail. | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end? Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail? Yes And presumably all vanilla ones live happily ever after? Did I say that No, but it is no more ridiculous a claim than the previous one you made about D/s relationships being destined to fail." They are destined to fail, do you have evidence to suggest they don't, btw try answering the OP question | |||
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"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s! And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed." But you haven't considered anything other than your opinion. You clearly aren't open to discussion and are dismissing any _iews that don't correspond and challenge yours. Of course their are some fucked up D/s relationships and of course there care some fucked up subs and predatory Doms but all of them? Seriously? And there are plenty of questionable and abusive relationships with no hint of D/s which you also seem to be overlooking | |||
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" They are destined to fail, do you have evidence to suggest they don't, " Do you have any evidence to say all those type of relationships fail? | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well? Yes I think they have low self esteem, Why is that then? Because if you have any self esteem you would be strong enough to resist and realise how ridiculous and degrading the sub/dom relationship is How is it ridiculous or degrading.. you obviously have no understanding... Its all about mutual trust and respect... Is it? And how do these relationships end? Do they end? Are all D/s relationships destined to fail? Yes And presumably all vanilla ones live happily ever after? Did I say that No, but it is no more ridiculous a claim than the previous one you made about D/s relationships being destined to fail. They are destined to fail, do you have evidence to suggest they don't, btw try answering the OP question " Oh please, you offer a totally unsubstantiated opinion as fact and then challenge me to disprove it. 
And I see little point in answering the OP as the debate has moved on | |||
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"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s! And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed." Not at all. Nor am I naive, easily manipulative or brainwashed. I do, however, have experience of D/s and submission. I am active on the kink scene in Manchester and could find you more than a few confident submissives who are in happy, consensual relationships that do not give them low self esteem. | |||
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"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s! And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed. Not at all. Nor am I naive, easily manipulative or brainwashed. I do, however, have experience of D/s and submission. I am active on the kink scene in Manchester and could find you more than a few confident submissives who are in happy, consensual relationships that do not give them low self esteem. " Could you also find some who have self esteem issues and who are manipulated in their relationship too? | |||
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"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s! And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed. But you haven't considered anything other than your opinion. You clearly aren't open to discussion and are dismissing any _iews that don't correspond and challenge yours. Of course their are some fucked up D/s relationships and of course there care some fucked up subs and predatory Doms but all of them? Seriously? And there are plenty of questionable and abusive relationships with no hint of D/s which you also seem to be overlooking" So how do you distinguish a good Dom who is truly concerned about the sub's welfare and the bully, predatory, taking the piss, potentially abusive Doms who just care about themselves and the subjugation of their subs? Are there any tell tale signs to look out for? | |||
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"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s! And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed. Not at all. Nor am I naive, easily manipulative or brainwashed. I do, however, have experience of D/s and submission. I am active on the kink scene in Manchester and could find you more than a few confident submissives who are in happy, consensual relationships that do not give them low self esteem. Could you also find some who have self esteem issues and who are manipulated in their relationship too?" Yes, but I could find them in vanilla settings too. The OP used the word tend and the poster who I was replying to has been very generalised towards D/s. I genuinely think that people who are in a D/s relationship with formal guidelines and rules are more aware of what is acceptable and not as their relationship has defined rules. Maybe that's me using my past vanilla relationships (I don't consider my current relationship to be a totally vanilla relationship) as a comparison to the other relationships I've had. I just think that there have been a few quite sharp posts on here about relationship dynamics that the posters haven't had experience of and I think that could be construed as quite offensive to those in happy, loving relationships with such dynamics. | |||
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"Christ on a bike there really are some people on here who have NO experience of D/s who know EVERYTHING about D/s! And your the oracle of D/S then?? I just get the impression that people who engage in these relationships are easily manipulated , naive and appear to be brain washed." is your impression based on any actual experience yourself or from folks you have known who fit your opinion..? | |||
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"Quite the opposite in my opinion. It takes a very strong man or woman to pass over any amount of control to another person. So there is none of "I need to let him/her do this to me otherwise they won't want me." ? Not in the submissives I've met on the Manchester scene. A D/s relationship requires communication and trust, not the Dominant doing what They want when They want without the consent of the submissive." Agree | |||
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"The thing that I am concerned with is the word "rules". Who makes the rules? Both of you? one of you? If one of you really didn't want to go through with something but it is in the "rules" do you have to go through with it anyway or can you still say no?" From my experience Rules evolve as the relationship does. They are often seen as an expression of control being exerted by the Dom/me, this is for their submissive a desirable thing, by definition they wish to be controlled by their Dom/me. If a rule was proposed by a Dom/me their submissive always has the right to not obey it, the ultimate consequence of that action might be the termination of the relationship. This is no different from a vanilla relationship and lot easier to dissolve than a legally binding marriage. | |||
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"The thing that I am concerned with is the word "rules". Who makes the rules? Both of you? one of you? If one of you really didn't want to go through with something but it is in the "rules" do you have to go through with it anyway or can you still say no?" A commonly used term is 'limits' and they are discussed in detail before any D/s relationship is entered into. The Dom/Domme may push those limits but the sub always has the power to say no....it's consensual. Mrs Dirty | |||
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"This is a question for those who engage in D/s play. Do you think that subs tend to have low self esteem? Could that explain why they are willing to be debased, demeaned, hurt and humiliated? Also do subs (due to low self esteem) feel that they need to be subs in order to have/ keep a Dom (man)? I know that in D/s play the sub has the power to say no and in a way "controls" play but does a low sense of self esteem come into it as well?" Those who engage in D/s type play and relationships are people. There are people who have self esteem issues. I have self esteem issues but, by being led into doing something, the thoughts I would have regarding how I look and what other people think about me are removed as my Dom takes that responsibility away from me. It empowers me. When I play in either a swinging club or a fetish club, I only care about his approval which he gives me which takes my worries away. Without him, I am left to consider everything alone which leaves me feeling vulnerable. I have met subs/slaves/pets/toys/bottoms who have incredibly high self esteems and are very secure in what they do and how they do it and don't care what people who don't matter to them think (within reason-consent for example). The reason I enjoy being hurt is because it then mentally links pleasure to pain. Being a self harmer in the past, I rarely feel the craving now as I no longer link pain to self punishment. I enjoy humiliation as it lifts my self esteem-the thought that someone would want to use me however they wish and to show me off makes me feel special. There have been people in the past who have abused that part of my psyche but the good Dom/mes have been able to use that part of me to enrich the experience overall for both of us. Abuses exist in all types of relationships and abuse is not restricted to one gender, sexual orientation or anything else. Abusers know how to manipulate their victim to get the result they want wether that's fear, self doubt or total control. Good mental Dom/mes use their ability to manipulate for the benefit of their sub which then benefits them. crystal | |||
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" ........ *Eloquent and insightful* ....... crystal " | |||
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"The word trust has only been used a few times in the thread, that and communication are paramount in any sub/dom/roleplay relationship as indeed they are in the 'vanilla' side of sexual relationships.. and yes not all sub/dom interaction will necessarily involve sex all the time.. the person trusted to be the dominant partner will (or should not) push the other person too far and to extremes that they know will be either wrong for the sub or that the sub is not ready for.. again with some there will be an element of wanting their boundaries pushed within the trust built up.. low self esteem is no more an issue with consenting people in sub dom than it is in vanilla, folks will have it and other may well exploit it.. thats hardly breaking news in some relationships though whatever the dynamic.. " | |||
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"The thing that I am concerned with is the word "rules". Who makes the rules? Both of you? one of you? If one of you really didn't want to go through with something but it is in the "rules" do you have to go through with it anyway or can you still say no? From my experience Rules evolve as the relationship does. They are often seen as an expression of control being exerted by the Dom/me, this is for their submissive a desirable thing, by definition they wish to be controlled by their Dom/me. If a rule was proposed by a Dom/me their submissive always has the right to not obey it, the ultimate consequence of that action might be the termination of the relationship. This is no different from a vanilla relationship and lot easier to dissolve than a legally binding marriage." So there could well be an ultimatum of " if you don't do this we are over "? I suppose that could be seen as manipulation. | |||
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"The thing that I am concerned with is the word "rules". Who makes the rules? Both of you? one of you? If one of you really didn't want to go through with something but it is in the "rules" do you have to go through with it anyway or can you still say no? A commonly used term is 'limits' and they are discussed in detail before any D/s relationship is entered into. The Dom/Domme may push those limits but the sub always has the power to say no....it's consensual. Mrs Dirty " A bit like any relationship then as I am sure we all must have limits.
A previous poster mentioned that if one says no it could be the end of the relationship....so I am guessing there are different ideas as to how the D/S thing happens | |||
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"It is entirely possible to be in a committed D/s relationship (not the same as role play) without the need for pain, corporal punishment or humiliation. It is also very easy to determine the difference between a "real/true/natural" Dom/me and a bully - there are plenty of wannabe Doms in particular on Fab who have no real understanding of the dynamic and it is immediately obvious from their profiles. Ironically the majority of people on Fab who are living a D/s lifestyle do not feel the need to broadcast it. Before this thread got hijacked by the more objectionable and quite frankly ridiculous comments made by those who do not fully understand the dynamic it was actually well explained by some. Genuine D/s relationships are founded in a deep and abiding love and trust as are many vanilla or "conventional" relationships and they are just as prone to ending/enduring as the latter. A good D/s relationship is also based on communication and understanding which in my personal experience goes far deeper than in many (NOT ALL) "conventional" relationships. I can only speak from personal experience but I ended a 20 year verbally and abusive bullying relationship with my children's father and it was only with hindsight that I recognised that actually I was always the stronger partner and he put me down constantly as a result of his own insecurities. I did not then seek a D/s relationship, but I did after several years on my own know that I wanted to be with a man who would cherish, support and value me and one who would take responsibility for us both. He is naturally dominant and I am submissive because I CHOOSE to be not because he expects it or makes me. The dynamic works for us as a couple, it is a lifestyle choice and does not involve either pain or humiliation - my partner recognises all too well that I would not tolerate either and he has enough respect for me that he would never inflict either. For anyone who would like a better insight into D/s relationships I would recommend that you google the poem "I am a submissive wife" which explains it beautifully from a woman's perspective in my opinion - and that is all I offer - an opinion. We are each entitled to live our lives the way we choose to as long as it is consensual and we are not hurting others by doing so. If you do not condone or fully understand others' choices fair enough but there is no need to condemn them out of hand as a result. Live and let live? " | |||
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" The dom should respect his sub, and vice versa. You will actually find the sub has more control than the dom. So anyone who thinks a sub lays down and takes it needs to educate themselves a little more. " and that is what I try to do on these forums with things I don't understand. thanks for sharing... | |||
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"But according to a post in answer to saying no...the ultimate action if a sub does say no is the end to a relationship. I appreciate that not every D/S relationship is the same, just as any swinging relationship, but as there are contradicting posts as to what may happen if a person says no then there doesn't seem a definitive answer to go by." A true Dom/Domme knows exactly how far the subs limits can be pushed and when they can be pushed so it shouldn't work like that! As in all relationships things can go wrong and it comes to a end but it's really not a case of the Dom/Domme saying 'if you don't do as I say it's all over'. The ones that treat a sub that way are usually the 'Dim Doms' 
Mrs Dirty | |||
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" The dom should respect his sub, and vice versa. You will actually find the sub has more control than the dom. So anyone who thinks a sub lays down and takes it needs to educate themselves a little more. and that is what I try to do on these forums with things I don't understand. thanks for sharing..." your welcome nette | |||
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"I still think some are exploited ( I appreciate that happens in non dom/sub relationships). There are people who I have observed for years/months that bewilder me, they are people of extremes. The downs far outweigh the ups and the downs are usually caused by someone else. I can't see being a sub is going to help that. ( now I do not know how to say what I am trying to, I have rewritten several times and it still doesnt quite get there ) There are people that seem to be crying out for happiness, they seem to continually be let down... they are mainly in the sub/dom scene and I just wonder if they are really suited to it but do it to please others more than find the right one.. " I absolutely agree with you, I do think there are many who are exploited but I do think there is some confusion between D/s and BDSM and BDSM I feel can be far more exploitative and many are at risk because they are needy - tho there are also plenty who go into it fully aware and seeking the sexual/mental thrill they crave. I also think it is probably true that there are couples on Fab where one partner is involved to please or for fear of losing the other so are being equally exploited and allowing themselves to be so. Sadly it is a fact of life that some will allow others to use them, this does not only apply to D/s and BDSM lifestyles. | |||
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"I still think some are exploited ( I appreciate that happens in non dom/sub relationships). There are people who I have observed for years/months that bewilder me, they are people of extremes. The downs far outweigh the ups and the downs are usually caused by someone else. I can't see being a sub is going to help that. ( now I do not know how to say what I am trying to, I have rewritten several times and it still doesnt quite get there ) There are people that seem to be crying out for happiness, they seem to continually be let down... they are mainly in the sub/dom scene and I just wonder if they are really suited to it but do it to please others more than find the right one.. I absolutely agree with you, I do think there are many who are exploited but I do think there is some confusion between D/s and BDSM and BDSM I feel can be far more exploitative and many are at risk because they are needy - tho there are also plenty who go into it fully aware and seeking the sexual/mental thrill they crave. I also think it is probably true that there are couples on Fab where one partner is involved to please or for fear of losing the other so are being equally exploited and allowing themselves to be so. Sadly it is a fact of life that some will allow others to use them, this does not only apply to D/s and BDSM lifestyles. " thanks, I wasn't sure if the essence of what I was trying to say got there. I am not meaning any offence to anyone. thanks for answering | |||
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"But according to a post in answer to saying no...the ultimate action if a sub does say no is the end to a relationship. I appreciate that not every D/S relationship is the same, just as any swinging relationship, but as there are contradicting posts as to what may happen if a person says no then there doesn't seem a definitive answer to go by. A true Dom/Domme knows exactly how far the subs limits can be pushed and when they can be pushed so it shouldn't work like that! As in all relationships things can go wrong and it comes to a end but it's really not a case of the Dom/Domme saying 'if you don't do as I say it's all over'. The ones that treat a sub that way are usually the 'Dim Doms'
Mrs Dirty "To be honest I am just going on a comment up there from someone who seems to know the scene well which was "If a rule was proposed by a Dom/me their submissive always has the right to not obey it, the ultimate consequence of that action might be the termination of the relationship." Which for me translates to, a Dom may dump someone as their sub if the sub changes their mind and don't want to do something that was already agreed. That doesn't sound like the sub is in control at all. | |||
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"I still think some are exploited ( I appreciate that happens in non dom/sub relationships). There are people who I have observed for years/months that bewilder me, they are people of extremes. The downs far outweigh the ups and the downs are usually caused by someone else. I can't see being a sub is going to help that. ( now I do not know how to say what I am trying to, I have rewritten several times and it still doesnt quite get there ) There are people that seem to be crying out for happiness, they seem to continually be let down... they are mainly in the sub/dom scene and I just wonder if they are really suited to it but do it to please others more than find the right one.. I absolutely agree with you, I do think there are many who are exploited but I do think there is some confusion between D/s and BDSM and BDSM I feel can be far more exploitative and many are at risk because they are needy - tho there are also plenty who go into it fully aware and seeking the sexual/mental thrill they crave. I also think it is probably true that there are couples on Fab where one partner is involved to please or for fear of losing the other so are being equally exploited and allowing themselves to be so. Sadly it is a fact of life that some will allow others to use them, this does not only apply to D/s and BDSM lifestyles. " Even through my post, I agree with this too, there is needy people, I have come across them, certain woman I have had dealings with, ( not on this site) there is people that will note this and prey. Nette | |||
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"But according to a post in answer to saying no...the ultimate action if a sub does say no is the end to a relationship. I appreciate that not every D/S relationship is the same, just as any swinging relationship, but as there are contradicting posts as to what may happen if a person says no then there doesn't seem a definitive answer to go by. A true Dom/Domme knows exactly how far the subs limits can be pushed and when they can be pushed so it shouldn't work like that! As in all relationships things can go wrong and it comes to a end but it's really not a case of the Dom/Domme saying 'if you don't do as I say it's all over'. The ones that treat a sub that way are usually the 'Dim Doms'
Mrs Dirty
To be honest I am just going on a comment up there from someone who seems to know the scene well which was
"If a rule was proposed by a Dom/me their submissive always has the right to not obey it, the ultimate consequence of that action might be the termination of the relationship."
Which for me translates to, a Dom may dump someone as their sub if the sub changes their mind and don't want to do something that was already agreed.
That doesn't sound like the sub is in control at all.
"Surely any relationship can end because the two partners disagree about how to proceed that isn't specific to a D/s relationship is it? I get what you are saying but think maybe you have taken the explanation too literally. A Dom/me who understands and respects their sub would not end a relationship because the sub said no, they would discuss the reasons for and against and reach a compromise where possible. This is precisely where exploitation comes in, a sub has to have the self esteem and confidence to be able to say no and trust that the Dom/me will listen and a good Dom/me would expect and respect it. | |||
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"But according to a post in answer to saying no...the ultimate action if a sub does say no is the end to a relationship. I appreciate that not every D/S relationship is the same, just as any swinging relationship, but as there are contradicting posts as to what may happen if a person says no then there doesn't seem a definitive answer to go by. A true Dom/Domme knows exactly how far the subs limits can be pushed and when they can be pushed so it shouldn't work like that! As in all relationships things can go wrong and it comes to a end but it's really not a case of the Dom/Domme saying 'if you don't do as I say it's all over'. The ones that treat a sub that way are usually the 'Dim Doms'
Mrs Dirty
To be honest I am just going on a comment up there from someone who seems to know the scene well which was
"If a rule was proposed by a Dom/me their submissive always has the right to not obey it, the ultimate consequence of that action might be the termination of the relationship."
Which for me translates to, a Dom may dump someone as their sub if the sub changes their mind and don't want to do something that was already agreed.
That doesn't sound like the sub is in control at all.
"A sub is in control as much as any half in a relationship is. If I told 2wheels I would never want a cat then decided I wanted one, it's up to us to compromise. He can leave if he wants so I can get a cat, I can talk it through with him and get a cat, I can leave so I can have a cat or I may decide not having a cat is the best thing for us anyway. The same as all relationships-things change, people grow and develop and such their wants, needs and desires change. I'm sure some subs say that the sub holds the true power to reassure and assert themselves but without the Dominance, their submission could be considered meaningless. If submission is a gift, then so is Dominance. Both should be appreciated and respected by both parties on both sides. crystal | |||
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"I still think some are exploited ( I appreciate that happens in non dom/sub relationships). There are people who I have observed for years/months that bewilder me, they are people of extremes. The downs far outweigh the ups and the downs are usually caused by someone else. I can't see being a sub is going to help that. ( now I do not know how to say what I am trying to, I have rewritten several times and it still doesnt quite get there ) There are people that seem to be crying out for happiness, they seem to continually be let down... they are mainly in the sub/dom scene and I just wonder if they are really suited to it but do it to please others more than find the right one.. I absolutely agree with you, I do think there are many who are exploited but I do think there is some confusion between D/s and BDSM and BDSM I feel can be far more exploitative and many are at risk because they are needy - tho there are also plenty who go into it fully aware and seeking the sexual/mental thrill they crave. I also think it is probably true that there are couples on Fab where one partner is involved to please or for fear of losing the other so are being equally exploited and allowing themselves to be so. Sadly it is a fact of life that some will allow others to use them, this does not only apply to D/s and BDSM lifestyles. thanks, I wasn't sure if the essence of what I was trying to say got there. I am not meaning any offence to anyone. thanks for answering "You're welcome and your _iews were not in the least bit offensive - not to me anyway - your concern was relevant and well expressed. (Hope that doesn't sound patronising, it wasnt intended to!) | |||
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" For anyone who would like a better insight into D/s relationships I would recommend that you google the poem "I am a submissive wife" which explains it beautifully from a woman's perspective in my opinion - and that is all I offer - an opinion. " Thanks for explaining, and I found the poem, but for me that still crosses the line - any relationship that involves one party 'punishing' the other, or demeaning them even if only by name calling is, to me, abusive. I can **accept** how some people might not find it so, may find it fulfilling and actually seek it. But, like the OP (I think?) it just beats my why anyone would. I find the dynamic fascinating, but not the end kind of end result so many people describe. | |||
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"I still think some are exploited ( I appreciate that happens in non dom/sub relationships). There are people who I have observed for years/months that bewilder me, they are people of extremes. The downs far outweigh the ups and the downs are usually caused by someone else. I can't see being a sub is going to help that. ( now I do not know how to say what I am trying to, I have rewritten several times and it still doesnt quite get there ) There are people that seem to be crying out for happiness, they seem to continually be let down... they are mainly in the sub/dom scene and I just wonder if they are really suited to it but do it to please others more than find the right one.. " People who are desperate and crying out for happiness and attention are always in danger of making themselves vulnerable and falling victim to those who would take advantage. BDSM can be extreme and the emotions and hormones that result from indulging can warp people's minds. I was in a triad relationship but it wasn't right for me but because the time I spent with my Dominant was so amazing, I continued to kid myself that he was the one for me. I'm sure that's happened to many people where they've continued with a relationship that wasn't right for them but they believed that it was right and made excuses for all the problems. crystal | |||
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"But according to a post in answer to saying no...the ultimate action if a sub does say no is the end to a relationship. I appreciate that not every D/S relationship is the same, just as any swinging relationship, but as there are contradicting posts as to what may happen if a person says no then there doesn't seem a definitive answer to go by. A true Dom/Domme knows exactly how far the subs limits can be pushed and when they can be pushed so it shouldn't work like that! As in all relationships things can go wrong and it comes to a end but it's really not a case of the Dom/Domme saying 'if you don't do as I say it's all over'. The ones that treat a sub that way are usually the 'Dim Doms'
Mrs Dirty
To be honest I am just going on a comment up there from someone who seems to know the scene well which was
"If a rule was proposed by a Dom/me their submissive always has the right to not obey it, the ultimate consequence of that action might be the termination of the relationship."
Which for me translates to, a Dom may dump someone as their sub if the sub changes their mind and don't want to do something that was already agreed.
That doesn't sound like the sub is in control at all.
Surely any relationship can end because the two partners disagree about how to proceed that isn't specific to a D/s relationship is it?
I get what you are saying but think maybe you have taken the explanation too literally. A Dom/me who understands and respects their sub would not end a relationship because the sub said no, they would discuss the reasons for and against and reach a compromise where possible.
. "No to your first question, it isn't confined just to D/S...I am sure it applies to vanilla and swinging couples too. I am just going on what someone has said what the ultimate action would be about being dumped...now either it is like you say, that the Dom didn't respect their sub, or it is as the post suggested, that subs may be dumped if denying what was set as rules. Obviously unless someone came along and told us they were we will never know if that was the case for someone | |||
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"I think in fairness to all, master / sub relationships are all different. Nette" I agree and why I said there will never be a definitive answer , so "education" in the matter will always be contradictory. | |||
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"I think in fairness to all, master / sub relationships are all different. Nette I agree and why I said there will never be a definitive answer , so "education" in the matter will always be contradictory. "Yes it will but that is still not exclusive to D/s relationships. No to relationships, whatever their basis, are the same. | |||
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" For anyone who would like a better insight into D/s relationships I would recommend that you google the poem "I am a submissive wife" which explains it beautifully from a woman's perspective in my opinion - and that is all I offer - an opinion. Thanks for explaining, and I found the poem, but for me that still crosses the line - any relationship that involves one party 'punishing' the other, or demeaning them even if only by name calling is, to me, abusive. I can **accept** how some people might not find it so, may find it fulfilling and actually seek it. But, like the OP (I think?) it just beats my why anyone would. I find the dynamic fascinating, but not the end kind of end result so many people describe." It crosses the line for me too and I have said as much in earlier posts on this thread, degradation / punishment whether verbal or physical is not essential to a successful D/s relationship. | |||
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"I think in fairness to all, master / sub relationships are all different. Nette I agree and why I said there will never be a definitive answer , so "education" in the matter will always be contradictory.
Yes it will but that is still not exclusive to D/s relationships. No to relationships, whatever their basis, are the same."That goes without saying. | |||
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"Quite the opposite.. it takes a very strong person with humilty, strength, a grounded sense of self and a total control of their own emotions to be a true submissive. And contrary to what you state, they dont 'allow' themselves to be used or humiliated, they gift it to the person they trust, honour and respect enough to look after that submission; in turn allowing them a release, an expression of themselves, an inner peace, a need fulfilled. Submission in its true form is a very beautiful thing and not at all related to low self esteem." Very well said | |||
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" I am just going on what someone has said what the ultimate action would be about being dumped... Obviously unless someone came along and told us they were we will never know if that was the case for someone " Well as the author of that comment I will clarify my intended meaning as it seems to have been misunderstood or at least in one case wilfully misrepresented. A sub can always think "You have gone too far, lost the plot, started to believe your own myth, I am out of here." Submissives are not brain washed vegetables incapable of rational thought, but usually do what they do with much thought and care. Just like in a vanilla relationship, if the other person becomes someone different to the person you entered it with, you can leave. Submissives finish D/s relationships at least as often as Dominants do. | |||
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" I am just going on what someone has said what the ultimate action would be about being dumped... Obviously unless someone came along and told us they were we will never know if that was the case for someone Well as the author of that comment I will clarify my intended meaning as it seems to have been misunderstood or at least in one case wilfully misrepresented. A sub can always think "You have gone too far, lost the plot, started to believe your own myth, I am out of here." Submissives are not brain washed vegetables incapable of rational thought, but usually do what they do with much thought and care. Just like in a vanilla relationship, if the other person becomes someone different to the person you entered it with, you can leave. Submissives finish D/s relationships at least as often as Dominants do." | |||
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" I am just going on what someone has said what the ultimate action would be about being dumped... Obviously unless someone came along and told us they were we will never know if that was the case for someone Well as the author of that comment I will clarify my intended meaning as it seems to have been misunderstood or at least in one case wilfully misrepresented. A sub can always think "You have gone too far, lost the plot, started to believe your own myth, I am out of here." Submissives are not brain washed vegetables incapable of rational thought, but usually do what they do with much thought and care. Just like in a vanilla relationship, if the other person becomes someone different to the person you entered it with, you can leave. Submissives finish D/s relationships at least as often as Dominants do." Just to clarify, I was asking more about the Dom doing the dumping if the sub didn't do what was planned ( I should have clarified it on the post ) I assumed you were answering on that basis. Having said that, your answer could have applied to the Sub or the dom doing the walking away if they didn't get their wish. | |||
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"Quite the opposite.. it takes a very strong person with humilty, strength, a grounded sense of self and a total control of their own emotions to be a true submissive. And contrary to what you state, they dont 'allow' themselves to be used or humiliated, they gift it to the person they trust, honour and respect enough to look after that submission; in turn allowing them a release, an expression of themselves, an inner peace, a need fulfilled. Submission in its true form is a very beautiful thing and not at all related to low self esteem. Very well said " | |||
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