FabSwingers.com forum: Views on soft swap

By *aughtyMinxLikes You OP Woman
over a year ago

Kettering

Should couples be honest and say they are into soft swap pre meeting?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Yes.

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By *livia_KWoman
over a year ago

South London

Absolutely! Why would you not mention this before a meet? One of the biggest boundaries I would say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't understand this why wouldn't you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes. And based on the amount of differing interpretations of whit soft swing is they should make their boundaries known.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should couples be honest and say they are into soft swap pre meeting?"

Always best to let the others know in advance to avoid any embarrassment

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Some people are not honest about what they want from a meet and I really fail to understand why.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"Some people are not honest about what they want from a meet and I really fail to understand why."

This!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes. And based on the amount of differing interpretations of whit soft swing is they should make their boundaries known.

this.

if you are expecting to have sex with the opposite member of the other couple, and you rock up and are told you cant, then im almost certain you would be labelled a time waster, tease or worse.

we only do soft swing, and although it has probably (read definitely) cost us meeting some nice couples, that beleive full swap is the only way you can swing

we are happy to do things our way, and our profile tells people this in the beginning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Of course they should , and outline their idea as to what is acceptable .

Some of our best meets have ended up soft swap with full swap couples !!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we would put ourselves on the harder end of the soft play scale, as the only thing we discount is full penetrative sex with other people, but in the past we have had messages from those that just want to watch and be watched, and when we say its not something we are interested in, they retort with we arent proper soft swingers then lol

sometimes you just cant blooy win.

too soft for full swappers, to hard for softs lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"we would put ourselves on the harder end of the soft play scale, as the only thing we discount is full penetrative sex with other people, but in the past we have had messages from those that just want to watch and be watched, and when we say its not something we are interested in, they retort with we arent proper soft swingers then lol

sometimes you just cant blooy win.

too soft for full swappers, to hard for softs lol"

+1 this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should couples be honest and say they are into soft swap pre meeting?"

Yes saves a lot of grief later

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should couples be honest and say they are into soft swap pre meeting?"

yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thats all we have done so far and guys had no problem meeting us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should couples be honest and say they are into soft swap pre meeting?"
Yes, otherise Meets could be a tad awkward

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"we would put ourselves on the harder end of the soft play scale, as the only thing we discount is full penetrative sex with other people"

So part penetrative sex is ok lol. You wouldn't put us off. We might do full swap but we always respect boundaries and if we are honest, to us its more about the whole meet than just the sex as we like a good laugh and conversation too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"we would put ourselves on the harder end of the soft play scale, as the only thing we discount is full penetrative sex with other people

yes, part penetration is ok.

it can go in her mouth, but no other holes lol

tbh, we get more grief off other soft players than full, except the hardcore full swappers.

we had feedback from a party we had once, and one of the people that attended told someone we just werent hard enough for them.

ah well, she wasnt complaining when she was being eaten out or had a face full of cock (or a belly full of wine, but thats another story)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

its in our profile , we only soft swap and on the light side too, we make that clear from the start as mrs hedo does not want to swap as yet ,

but we do still have meets and plenty of fun at clubs

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By *utumnloversCouple
over a year ago

York (ish)

"we would put ourselves on the harder end of the soft play scale, as the only thing we discount is full penetrative sex with other people

yes, part penetration is ok.

it can go in her mouth, but no other holes lol

tbh, we get more grief off other soft players than full, except the hardcore full swappers.

we had feedback from a party we had once, and one of the people that attended told someone we just werent hard enough for them.

ah well, she wasnt complaining when she was being eaten out or had a face full of cock (or a belly full of wine, but thats another story)"

We are exactly the same.... happy with oral but save the ultimate for ourselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We're happy with soft swap or full, whatever happens on the day really. The main thing for us is that everyone should be happy.

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By *utumnloversCouple
over a year ago

York (ish)

We try to be "up front" about how far we are happy to go so as not to lead anyone on.

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By *ENDAROOSCouple
over a year ago

South West London / Surrey

"Should couples be honest and say they are into soft swap pre meeting?"

Yes all parties should be honest about what they are looking for and any boundaries they have. Saves any unwanted surprises.....

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By *ENDAROOSCouple
over a year ago

South West London / Surrey

"We're happy with soft swap or full, whatever happens on the day really. The main thing for us is that everyone should be happy. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes. And based on the amount of differing interpretations of whit soft swing is they should make their boundaries known.

this.

if you are expecting to have sex with the opposite member of the other couple, and you rock up and are told you cant, then im almost certain you would be labelled a time waster, tease or worse.

we only do soft swing, and although it has probably (read definitely) cost us meeting some nice couples, that beleive full swap is the only way you can swing

we are happy to do things our way, and our profile tells people this in the beginning."

And that's exactly how it should be. Surely all boundaries are discussed prior to any meet?

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By *W69Couple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Yes. And based on the amount of differing interpretations of whit soft swing is they should make their boundaries known.

this.

if you are expecting to have sex with the opposite member of the other couple, and you rock up and are told you cant, then im almost certain you would be labelled a time waster, tease or worse.

we only do soft swing, and although it has probably (read definitely) cost us meeting some nice couples, that beleive full swap is the only way you can swing

we are happy to do things our way, and our profile tells people this in the beginning.

And that's exactly how it should be. Surely all boundaries are discussed prior to any meet?"

Without having established boundaries, it surely means that lines of communication have not been established. To us communication between all parties involved is paramount to everybody being able to relax, enjoy and have a good time.

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By *abe1200Couple
over a year ago

belfast

"Should couples be honest and say they are into soft swap pre meeting?"
yes they should.why not?we are into full swap we mention it frm way go

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a tick box on the profile, we don't actually have hard rules about soft swap... but it's a good starting point and while discussion should set boundaries on all sides before a meet, they can move before a second meet or even with discussion on a first / club night.

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By *enus MarsCouple
over a year ago

Wimborne

Yes. We will only soft play and although some couples are happy with that others really prefer full swap. Its a preference thing, if you know from the outset you can decide if a couple is right for you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes it should be made clear from the start.

we are happy to play with soft swap couples as long as its the harder side of soft swap, we dont need penetration to have a good time. However, if we met a couple and all they wanted to do was have sex with each other in the same room, we'd feel abit like our time had been wasted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"yes it should be made clear from the start.

This we are not really into watching and being watched, full sex is not a must at all but watching is not enough for us but each to their own

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By *ayandess1Couple
over a year ago

bridgwater

We are a soft swap couple at the very very edge of full. I (jamie) am ok to fuck women as she loves watching, but she doesn't want another man inside her.

I guess that just makes it even more confusing.

We have both full swapped before - once. But it was with a couple we had known and trusted for months before that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We are a soft swap couple at the very very edge of full. I (jamie) am ok to fuck women as she loves watching, but she doesn't want another man inside her.

I guess that just makes it even more confusing.

We have both full swapped before - once. But it was with a couple we had known and trusted for months before that. "

guess this would appeal more to a cuckold couple? the guy gets to watch his partner have sex ,as does your partner?

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By *andd2Couple
over a year ago

The Dungeon

Soft swing is like non alcoholic lager. Tasteless and ultimately useless.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be safe you must use condoms which kills the whole experience. Even with the excitement of somebody new It just isn't very nice with a condom. My wife ended up sore from the condom. Skin on skin with my wife is way way better than the other option.

Afraid it is soft swap for us from now on. Purely physical.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We class ourselves a soft swing couple to us soft swing is basically everything except full sex , that doesn't mean we won’t full swap if the mood and couple we meet feel right. We would rather meet as soft swing which is more than fine with us that way we find there is no pressure or misunderstandings for full swap if happens it happens if it doesn't it doesn't after all its just a bit of fun.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We always make people aware that we are soft swap as it is clearly on our profile , and when we chat we make clear what our boundaries are save wasting anyone's time .

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By *an and wifeyCouple
over a year ago

n lincs

We are up for soft and full swap and a good laugh but you can turn up on a meet and it goes pear shaped not by our doing may I add lol but we just get on and have fun on our own if that's the case or even don't bother if it's really gone Pete tong. If you don't click then there is no point. If that makes us time wasters then unlucky

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By *mo-amas-amatMan
over a year ago

brighton

The politics of swapping. Style soft.

To soft swappers, a cap must be doffed

Full swap? Too much.

Yes to lick, or a touch

Bottom line though, the missus ain't boffed!

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By *ebsCoupleCouple
over a year ago

Orpington/london

"We class ourselves a soft swing couple to us soft swing is basically everything except full sex , that doesn't mean we won’t full swap if the mood and couple we meet feel right. We would rather meet as soft swing which is more than fine with us that way we find there is no pressure or misunderstandings for full swap if happens it happens if it doesn't it doesn't after all its just a bit of fun."

same here up for most things expect the 4ps (penetration,pain,pee,poo)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes and I will stay away from them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Soft swing is like non alcoholic lager. Tasteless and ultimately useless.

your opinion, and to many, its incorrect.

full swap is like cheating with permission (not true at all, but just as short sighted)

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By *ebsCoupleCouple
over a year ago

Orpington/london

"Soft swing is like non alcoholic lager. Tasteless and ultimately useless.

your opinion, and to many, its incorrect.

full swap is like cheating with permission (not true at all, but just as short sighted)"

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By *leasurexxWoman
over a year ago

Birmingham

Yep should def be mentioned from the start and also do's n donts much better if everyone knows the boundaries x

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By *oxycouple28Couple
over a year ago

bexley

sometimes you just cant blooy win.

too soft for full swappers, to hard for softs lol"

Exactly the same here!

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By *yLongJourneyMan
over a year ago

Lowestoft

its always the call of the people involved and if they wish to only have soft or hard then they should say in the correspondence or on the profile, i dont mind soft or hard myself, preferably hard but soft is worth a try sometime, im an open book on that one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Absolutely! Why would you not mention this before a meet? One of the biggest boundaries I would say."

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By *utumnloversCouple
over a year ago

York (ish)

"Soft swing is like non alcoholic lager. Tasteless and ultimately useless.

your opinion, and to many, its incorrect.

full swap is like cheating with permission (not true at all, but just as short sighted)"

Well said Venus, we have had some very erotic sexy times with both full and soft swing cpls, we always make it clear from the start that the only thing we dont do with others is penetration.

Never had any negative vibes from anyone we've played with and most have become good friends

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I cant say i have noticed that many profiles that do not specify hard or soft swap, but the devil is in the detail and there certainly is many degrees of soft swap, some will only watch, some will touch some will do oral.

As we are utter sluts then we will do just about anything but then again we find talking about the limits on meeting is a great way to break the ice anyway, i would have thought finding out about someones hard limit the moment you try to put your cock somewhere its not wanted is far too late and there has been bad communication.

We are petty open minded and all levels of swinging are great for us, there is only one right way and that is of the individual(s) concerned. Just getting someone into that situation in the first place is enough to promote great sex on our own so every one is a winner.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I was part of a couple thats all we ever did. Always made it clear from the start so no probs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We have some lovely friends that we've met at clubs that only soft swing and that's cool beacause we know them well enough now xx but we avoid it with regards to meets off here as we've had sooo many conflicting messages of dos and donts that it scares the crap out of us to be honest x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I cant say i have noticed that many profiles that do not specify hard or soft swap, but the devil is in the detail and there certainly is many degrees of soft swap, some will only watch, some will touch some will do oral.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have some lovely friends that we've met at clubs that only soft swing and that's cool beacause we know them well enough now xx but we avoid it with regards to meets off here as we've had sooo many conflicting messages of dos and donts that it scares the crap out of us to be honest x

Yup have to agree with that, profiles with a long check list tend to be as off putting as one line profiles. But then again we have met people at parties and become freinds, then when looking at thier profiles after they are exactly the sort we would avoid lol!

You just never know in this game but that is exactly why we prefer clubs and parties as we are all guilty of putting to much emphasis on profile content. But then again we have no other way seeking compatibility. Goes to prove that nothing can beat meeting in real life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When we first started swinging years ago we met soft swap couples as well as full swap.

But to be honest we had more trouble with the soft swap couples, as a poster on this thread has mentioned there are various types of soft swap depending on the couple.

It just became a nightmare and it was like you were handed a list of what you could and could not do. Of course this depended on the couple, but each one seemed to be different.

Each to their own and not doubt we will get shot down for this post..but after about a year we just thought "full swap couples only" it is a lot less confusing and to be honest less hassle.

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By *ayandess1Couple
over a year ago

bridgwater

It's ok as long as you are up front with it. We state clearly on our profile. So far we have had no issues. Xxxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i dont get that full swap is a lot simpler, as full swappers have rules too.

no anal

no kissing

no 3 p's (whichever the 3rd one is)

and so on

as soft swappers WE have fewer rules than a lot of fullies.

as has been said, its all about communication.

find out whats on offer before making moves to leave the house and everyone will be happy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When we message a couple no matter who they are we always ask what their boundries are that way everyone is clear on whats what with each other it makes life so much simpler

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By *utumnloversCouple
over a year ago

York (ish)

"When we first started swinging years ago we met soft swap couples as well as full swap.

But to be honest we had more trouble with the soft swap couples, as a poster on this thread has mentioned there are various types of soft swap depending on the couple.

It just became a nightmare and it was like you were handed a list of what you could and could not do. Of course this depended on the couple, but each one seemed to be different.

Each to their own and not doubt we will get shot down for this post..but after about a year we just thought "full swap couples only" it is a lot less confusing and to be honest less hassle. "

The only thing that we don't do is full penetration, not that hard really?

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By *yLongJourneyMan
over a year ago

Lowestoft

"When we first started swinging years ago we met soft swap couples as well as full swap.

But to be honest we had more trouble with the soft swap couples, as a poster on this thread has mentioned there are various types of soft swap depending on the couple.

It just became a nightmare and it was like you were handed a list of what you could and could not do. Of course this depended on the couple, but each one seemed to be different.

Each to their own and not doubt we will get shot down for this post..but after about a year we just thought "full swap couples only" it is a lot less confusing and to be honest less hassle.

The only thing that we don't do is full penetration, not that hard really?"

well mine is very hard, sorry out of context, ill play soft swap or hard swap i dont mind at all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/01/14 15:12:20]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thats it totally confused now thought i was getting some good advice at first but now its swing.confused.com think we will just stick to tiddleywinks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thats it totally confused now thought i was getting some good advice at first but now its swing.confused.com think we will just stick to tiddleywinks "

whats got you confused?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We always played full swop when we were meeting.

But were once contacted by a soft swop couple, although it said full only on our profile.

When we politely declined, stating the above, they became harder to shake off than Jehovah's Witnesses.

Talk about pushy, they just kept going on about how we should try it.

We told them we already do, at the beginning of every meet!

XXXX

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dont like the idea of making a list of dos ad dont s if i wanted a steak i might chane my mind and opt for the parmo

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By *asperthedogCouple
over a year ago

midlands

soft swingers, kill them all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wouldn't meet soft sex only couples. I can't see what a couple would want with a woman joining them just to suck the wife's tits

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wouldn't meet soft sex only couples. I can't see what a couple would want with a woman joining them just to suck the wife's tits "

well if sucking tits is all you think soft swing is, you are missing out lol

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By *appyfuckerMan
over a year ago

in a happy place north wales coast

not a problem had a cpl of fab times with cpls that i had full sex with the lady and next time the fore play lasted that long and was explosive every 1 was well happy so yea softs good at times

best way to get to know some 1 better can know what buttons to press nx time

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By *indys loverCouple
over a year ago

Stratford on avon

dont really know what we are yet as we are newish to the lifestyle ,

I supose we are on the soft swing side of the line but TBH I can see the line moving in time , but we are still having fun in finding this 'line'

fraid at the moment we are still on jasper the dogs 'hit list'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"dont really know what we are yet as we are newish to the lifestyle ,

I supose we are on the soft swing side of the line but TBH I can see the line moving in time , but we are still having fun in finding this 'line'

fraid at the moment we are still on jasper the dogs 'hit list'

keep moving.

we are harder to hit lol

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By *indys loverCouple
over a year ago

Stratford on avon

"dont really know what we are yet as we are newish to the lifestyle ,

I supose we are on the soft swing side of the line but TBH I can see the line moving in time , but we are still having fun in finding this 'line'

fraid at the moment we are still on jasper the dogs 'hit list'

keep moving.

we are harder to hit lol"

hmmmm whilst id agree that both our ladies make take some hitting with a running shot I do believe both of us Hercules would do well to take some camolflage instruction

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its simple really.........

In one word PREFERENCE ! We may be soft swap but dont rule out full at some point thats our choice and our preference doesnt make us any less swingers than full swap couples.

It is up to to every individual couple to agree their own boundaries with who they choose to play with end of lol !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"dont really know what we are yet as we are newish to the lifestyle ,

I supose we are on the soft swing side of the line but TBH I can see the line moving in time , but we are still having fun in finding this 'line'

fraid at the moment we are still on jasper the dogs 'hit list'

keep moving.

we are harder to hit lol

hmmmm whilst id agree that both our ladies make take some hitting with a running shot I do believe both of us Hercules would do well to take some camolflage instruction

lol, we would have to do rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock to see who stands in front lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its simple really.........

In one word PREFERENCE ! We may be soft swap but dont rule out full at some point thats our choice and our preference doesnt make us any less swingers than full swap couples.

It is up to to every individual couple to agree their own boundaries with who they choose to play with end of lol !!

I really don't understand why some people are so incredibly rude about other people's preferences.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Couldent of put it etter steelheels x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wouldn't meet soft sex only couples. I can't see what a couple would want with a woman joining them just to suck the wife's tits

well if sucking tits is all you think soft swing is, you are missing out lol"

that's what the couple I spoke to said it was. What is your version?

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By *ubybabyCouple
over a year ago

lincoln ish

I love soft swop its very erotic and such a huge turn on xxx whos up for some xxxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I love soft swop its very erotic and such a huge turn on xxx whos up for some xxxx"

all fun is good fun!I

ps.......wish we were nearer, lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

WE sued to soft-swap, but always made it plain in our profile and before every meet. It's only fair for all concerned. Now my wife likes a good fuck with a bloke/s - but we appreciate others still soft swap and as long as they're up front about it, then that is THEIR choice.

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

We do not mind what people are in to. Full, soft and all stops in between.. To go even further, we don't mind if a couple just want to meet to talk a little risqué. We all had to start somewhere and we are quite happy to give others the great start we had.

However, we need to be told at the outset! As long as we like the look of them and if after having talked on the phone they sound good, we have no problems at all. It is certainly not a waste! We have friends who started out that way and they have been eased into this hobby. Some are still soft swap and some are now full swap!

Love soft swap and love full swap, so bring it on!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes they should!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wouldn't meet soft sex only couples. I can't see what a couple would want with a woman joining them just to suck the wife's tits

well if sucking tits is all you think soft swing is, you are missing out lol

that's what the couple I spoke to said it was. What is your version? "

pretty much anything a full swap couple would do, just without fucking each others partners

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Isn't honesty the whole point of having a comfortable meet

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wouldn't meet soft sex only couples. I can't see what a couple would want with a woman joining them just to suck the wife's tits

well if sucking tits is all you think soft swing is, you are missing out lol

that's what the couple I spoke to said it was. What is your version?

pretty much anything a full swap couple would do, just without fucking each others partners"

ok , so oral then? What about using toys?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wouldn't meet soft sex only couples. I can't see what a couple would want with a woman joining them just to suck the wife's tits

well if sucking tits is all you think soft swing is, you are missing out lol

that's what the couple I spoke to said it was. What is your version?

pretty much anything a full swap couple would do, just without fucking each others partners

ok , so oral then? What about using toys? "

yes, although i do draw the line at letting others use my lego's.

they are mine! lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wouldn't meet soft sex only couples. I can't see what a couple would want with a woman joining them just to suck the wife's tits

well if sucking tits is all you think soft swing is, you are missing out lol

that's what the couple I spoke to said it was. What is your version?

pretty much anything a full swap couple would do, just without fucking each others partners

ok , so oral then? What about using toys?

yes, although i do draw the line at letting others use my lego's.

they are mine! lol"

lol so selfish!

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By *imjohnCouple
over a year ago

Clacton on sea, Essex

We prefer soft swing meets first as its a more erotic way of getting to know people, we all get to cum so we can't see any problem with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wouldn't meet soft sex only couples. I can't see what a couple would want with a woman joining them just to suck the wife's tits

well if sucking tits is all you think soft swing is, you are missing out lol

that's what the couple I spoke to said it was. What is your version?

pretty much anything a full swap couple would do, just without fucking each others partners

ok , so oral then? What about using toys?

yes, although i do draw the line at letting others use my lego's.

they are mine! lol

lol so selfish! "

i know, but you have to draw the line somewhere lol.

soft play, i always say, starts at chatting and watching and ends before someone puts something where it aint wanted.

anything between the two can be counted, you just need to talk to who you are meeting with a s to what they do.

as said, we are at the limit of soft play.

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By *utumnloversCouple
over a year ago

York (ish)

Totally agree Venus, we are happy with everything a full swap couple would be up until full penetration with each others partner....That we save for ourselves.

We have some fantastic meets and it works for us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes. And based on the amount of differing interpretations of whit soft swing is they should make their boundaries known.

"
this is our thoughts too!...

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By *imjohnCouple
over a year ago

Clacton on sea, Essex

"I wouldn't meet soft sex only couples. I can't see what a couple would want with a woman joining them just to suck the wife's tits

well if sucking tits is all you think soft swing is, you are missing out lol

that's what the couple I spoke to said it was. What is your version?

pretty much anything a full swap couple would do, just without fucking each others partners"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It does not matter if someone goes for hard or soft swinging as after every encounter sex with eachother is as mindblowing as ever, and why we could never live a vanilla life as we dont wish it to become a routine and boring like so many people we know.

We see no reason to restrict ourselves and our options we will have a great time no matter how far into the swinging spectrum we get at any given time. Nothing is out of bounds to us and while say for example pee is not our thing we would never avoid others if it is theirs.

|We get off on others being free, that allows us to be free which turns our minds on as well as our bodies.

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By *indys loverCouple
over a year ago

Stratford on avon

"It does not matter if someone goes for hard or soft swinging as after every encounter sex with eachother is as mindblowing as ever, and why we could never live a vanilla life as we dont wish it to become a routine and boring like so many people we know.

|We get off on others being free, that allows us to be free which turns our minds on as well as our bodies. "

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