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Is sexual fidelity outdated?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The polarised opinions expressed by Fab members when "cheating" spouses are discussed in the forums indicate that the members of Fab tend to be very clear in their own minds over the matter of sexual fidelity.

Interestingly many of the "cheaters" staunchest critics quote the marriage vows where it says "..... forsaking all others, be faithful to him/her as long as you both shall live?" Yet I do not see a legal rider there which says "Unless agreed otherwise between the parties." So how does agreeing to swing make it right? BUT that is not the question!!!

Please can we be pragmatic here and set aside learnt behaviour, indoctrination and Neolithic religious teachings and ask the serious question "Is the need for sexual fidelity today as important as it has ever been considering the original reasons for requiring it have now all but disappeared?" [For those who do not know the original reasons they were primarily to prevent a man bringing up another man's child and a woman from losing her man to a sexier competitor.]

Please discuss.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sits back with a six pack and a tube of pringles. Should be fun.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/10/13 17:47:20]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suspect that most of vanilla/normal (or whatever you want to call it) society would take an equally dim view of swinging as they do cheating. I suspect most swingers can differentiate between the 2 which is why cheats are condemned and a combination of these 2 points is why cheats are often left confused that they are not necessarily amongst kindred spirits here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The polarised opinions expressed by Fab members when "cheating" spouses are discussed in the forums indicate that the members of Fab tend to be very clear in their own minds over the matter of sexual fidelity.

Interestingly many of the "cheaters" staunchest critics quote the marriage vows where it says "..... forsaking all others, be faithful to him/her as long as you both shall live?" Yet I do not see a legal rider there which says "Unless agreed otherwise between the parties." So how does agreeing to swing make it right? BUT that is not the question!!!

Please can we be pragmatic here and set aside learnt behaviour, indoctrination and Neolithic religious teachings and ask the serious question "Is the need for sexual fidelity today as important as it has ever been considering the original reasons for requiring it have now all but disappeared?" [For those who do not know the original reasons they were primarily to prevent a man bringing up another man's child and a woman from losing her man to a sexier competitor.]

Please discuss.

"

Where did you get those reasons from?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sits back with a six pack and a tube of pringles. Should be fun."

Tic tic tic and watch it blow

Oi hope those are cheese and onion Pringles and bring on the Pepsi x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally, I couldn't bear to watch a man I loved touch another woman. Wouldn't want to marry a man who wanted to watch me with another man either. But I will happily, as a single woman , have sex with married men or a couple in a relations

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And married women

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Social anthropologists. What other reasons do you suggest? I am happy to have contributions

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Sits back with a six pack and a tube of pringles. Should be fun.

Tic tic tic and watch it blow

Oi hope those are cheese and onion Pringles and bring on the Pepsi x"

It would appear that Schadenfreude is alive and living in some forumites! LOL

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Social anthropologists. What other reasons do you suggest? I am happy to have contributions "

You want to discount indoctrination etc :p

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Humans are very much like all the animals in the world: some mate for life and others don't. Cannot get any more basic than that .

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Social anthropologists. What other reasons do you suggest? I am happy to have contributions

You want to discount indoctrination etc :p"

Well, indoctrination imposes on the young the parameters of others (i.e. elders) and those parameters are carried forward into adulthood. Later in life many elements of indoctrination are questioned but some, e.g. sexual fidelity, often remain untested; almost as if it were part of a faith. I wondered if anyone wanted to test them?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Humans are very much like all the animals in the world: some mate for life and others don't. Cannot get any more basic than that ."

If you are a panda it takes a lifetime to mate!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a swinger I think emotional fidelity is more important, if a couple is swinging it is done with the agreement of both and not done in secret, so to me it isnt cheating.

As for sexual fidelity being outdated....no I dont think it is' as its the societal norm for one reason or another.

Being a swinger is a mindset, and I do think people that have that mindset are in a minority.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/10/13 18:17:39]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Humans are very much like all the animals in the world: some mate for life and others don't. Cannot get any more basic than that ."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When Jaz and I began dating, I told him that I would want to play with women without him, and if he didn't like that then we couldn't be together. I agreed that I would tell him where I was and who I was with as well as what my plams would be. Luckily he confessed he wanted to have sexy times with blokes too. We don't class that as being unfaithful and never have.

In short, I think that sexual fidelity is a matter of what works for each couple, like all the other boundaries that couples have. If both parties want to play with other people and both parties are genuinely okay with it, then why should they not be able to do that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Humans are very much like all the animals in the world: some mate for life and others don't. Cannot get any more basic than that ."

In a nutshell!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Personally, I couldn't bear to watch a man I loved touch another woman. Wouldn't want to marry a man who wanted to watch me with another man either. But I will happily, as a single woman , have sex with married men or a couple in a relations "

Well I would have agreed with you totally not so long back but..... Now being part of a very loving couple... It adds to the sexual heat and tension and joys, of watching my partner f@@k another woman and he gets very turned on by watching me with another man ! But that is why we are all different, cos what a very boring world this would be if we all the same

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If a couple has chosen monogamy/swing/cuckold lifestyle, they have decided together the dynamics of the relationship that work best for them as a partnership. If one partner decides to go beyond the agreed perimeters, lying and hiding to do so..it's a betrayal of trust.I have had a cuckold boyfriend, but I was never unfaithful. Not by his standards or mine.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

Personally, if I were in a "relationship" I would not want to share him with anyone else, nor would I want to have anyone else. But for those who are in loving relationships and find that swinging works, all the more power to them. It just wouldn't be for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If a couple has chosen monogamy/swing/cuckold lifestyle, they have decided together the dynamics of the relationship that work best for them as a partnership. If one partner decides to go beyond the agreed perimeters, lying and hiding to do so..it's a betrayal of trust.I have had a cuckold boyfriend, but I was never unfaithful. Not by his standards or mine. "

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By *lackCherryCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

A relationship married or otherwise comes down to trust and respect, if you are cheating then you have neither quite simply.

I really dont understand why people constantly have to lump in cheating and swinging they are two entirely different things if you asked the "masses" the difference between RAM and ROM most wouldn't know either, however this doesn't make them right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Horses for courses.

Whatever one person wants to do is really up to them.

Personally I don't agree with cheating - it can cause such hurt so I choose not to play with those who are.

As long as my preferences are respected then who am I to question someone else's?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Humans are very much like all the animals in the world: some mate for life and others don't. Cannot get any more basic than that .

If you are a panda it takes a lifetime to mate! "

I'd like to mate like a panda 'eats shoots and leaves'

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By *lanwoodMan
over a year ago

Alton


"Social anthropologists. What other reasons do you suggest? I am happy to have contributions

You want to discount indoctrination etc :p

Well, indoctrination imposes on the young the parameters of others (i.e. elders) and those parameters are carried forward into adulthood. Later in life many elements of indoctrination are questioned but some, e.g. sexual fidelity, often remain untested; almost as if it were part of a faith. I wondered if anyone wanted to test them? "

I went into my marriage (over 40 years ago) believing in monogamous relationships. That was certainly part of my psyche, from parents, society in general and friends. If the sexual part of our marriage had been satisfactory, everything would have stayed that way. However, it wasn't and I most certainly have questioned the concept of sexual fidelity in later life and sought intimacy elsewhere, including here. So the concept of fidelity is outdated for me at least.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Social anthropologists. What other reasons do you suggest? I am happy to have contributions

You want to discount indoctrination etc :p

Well, indoctrination imposes on the young the parameters of others (i.e. elders) and those parameters are carried forward into adulthood. Later in life many elements of indoctrination are questioned but some, e.g. sexual fidelity, often remain untested; almost as if it were part of a faith. I wondered if anyone wanted to test them?

I went into my marriage (over 40 years ago) believing in monogamous relationships. That was certainly part of my psyche, from parents, society in general and friends. If the sexual part of our marriage had been satisfactory, everything would have stayed that way. However, it wasn't and I most certainly have questioned the concept of sexual fidelity in later life and sought intimacy elsewhere, including here. So the concept of fidelity is outdated for me at least."

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"A relationship married or otherwise comes down to trust and respect, if you are cheating then you have neither quite simply."

I believe you missed the point here. The question is; should we continue to value sexual fidelity as a matter of trust or is it obsolete?

To explain further, there are many other areas of human relationship that could be similarly valued. Why is it not "cheating" for him to eat food that you did not produce? Get his hair cut by someone other than you? Do you see what I am saying? Why single out sexual fidelity and make it so darn important?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Horses for courses.

Whatever one person wants to do is really up to them.

Personally I don't agree with cheating - it can cause such hurt so I choose not to play with those who are.

As long as my preferences are respected then who am I to question someone else's? "

The question is: Why is sexual playing around singled out as "Cheating"? Why does it cause hurt?

This site is full of men and woman who actually seek to see their loved ones having sex with others. Should we reconsider why we place sex on a pedestal and not other areas of a relationship?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Personally, I couldn't bear to watch a man I loved touch another woman. Wouldn't want to marry a man who wanted to watch me with another man either. But I will happily, as a single woman , have sex with married men or a couple in a relations

Well I would have agreed with you totally not so long back but..... Now being part of a very loving couple... It adds to the sexual heat and tension and joys, of watching my partner f@@k another woman and he gets very turned on by watching me with another man ! But that is why we are all different, cos what a very boring world this would be if we all the same "

I ended a relationship with a man because he had sex with my friend, with my consent. I realised I didn't love him because it didn't bother me he had sex with her. I'd rather a play partner if we aren't going to monogamous

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Social anthropologists. What other reasons do you suggest? I am happy to have contributions

You want to discount indoctrination etc :p

Well, indoctrination imposes on the young the parameters of others (i.e. elders) and those parameters are carried forward into adulthood. Later in life many elements of indoctrination are questioned but some, e.g. sexual fidelity, often remain untested; almost as if it were part of a faith. I wondered if anyone wanted to test them?

I went into my marriage (over 40 years ago) believing in monogamous relationships. That was certainly part of my psyche, from parents, society in general and friends. If the sexual part of our marriage had been satisfactory, everything would have stayed that way. However, it wasn't and I most certainly have questioned the concept of sexual fidelity in later life and sought intimacy elsewhere, including here. So the concept of fidelity is outdated for me at least."

Which politely begs the question why stay together?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A relationship married or otherwise comes down to trust and respect, if you are cheating then you have neither quite simply.

I believe you missed the point here. The question is; should we continue to value sexual fidelity as a matter of trust or is it obsolete?

To explain further, there are many other areas of human relationship that could be similarly valued. Why is it not "cheating" for him to eat food that you did not produce? Get his hair cut by someone other than you? Do you see what I am saying? Why single out sexual fidelity and make it so darn important? "

I have no idea of your personal situation however after 34 years together here we both understand that anything not considered together is a kind of betrayal.

More to the point in a truly loving, respectful and honest relationship there is no need to 'cheat' on any subject

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By *eddonistikMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"Humans are very much like all the animals in the world: some mate for life and others don't. Cannot get any more basic than that .

If you are a panda it takes a lifetime to mate!

I'd like to mate like a panda 'eats shoots and leaves' "

But extremely rarely evidently

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By *ittle nelWoman
over a year ago

Merseyside


"Personally, if I were in a "relationship" I would not want to share him with anyone else, nor would I want to have anyone else. But for those who are in loving relationships and find that swinging works, all the more power to them. It just wouldn't be for me. "

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By *eddonistikMan
over a year ago

Manchester

Personally, I love te fucking around having fun. Done the being married, had an affair, it was shit. In future it's honesty, I can't be doing with living a lie again, just too horrible.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"A relationship married or otherwise comes down to trust and respect, if you are cheating then you have neither quite simply.

I believe you missed the point here. The question is; should we continue to value sexual fidelity as a matter of trust or is it obsolete?

To explain further, there are many other areas of human relationship that could be similarly valued. Why is it not "cheating" for him to eat food that you did not produce? Get his hair cut by someone other than you? Do you see what I am saying? Why single out sexual fidelity and make it so darn important?

I have no idea of your personal situation however after 34 years together here we both understand that anything not considered together is a kind of betrayal.

More to the point in a truly loving, respectful and honest relationship there is no need to 'cheat' on any subject "

This is not about me.

This is not about cheating per se.

It is about whether or not sexual fidelity should be valued as highly as it is; usually higher than other events in a relationship.

What I understand you are saying is everything you do is done with the knowledge and consent of the other. In this scenario does sexual fidelity rank higher than say going to the chiropodist without telling the spouse?

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"I suspect that most of vanilla/normal (or whatever you want to call it) society would take an equally dim view of swinging as they do cheating. I suspect most swingers can differentiate between the 2 which is why cheats are condemned and a combination of these 2 points is why cheats are often left confused that they are not necessarily amongst kindred spirits here."

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"Personally, I couldn't bear to watch a man I loved touch another woman. Wouldn't want to marry a man who wanted to watch me with another man either. But I will happily, as a single woman , have sex with married men or a couple in a relations "

The first part of this: . Second part: no! I will not have sex with married/attached men.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


" I went into my marriage (over 40 years ago) believing in monogamous relationships. That was certainly part of my psyche, from parents, society in general and friends. If the sexual part of our marriage had been satisfactory, everything would have stayed that way. However, it wasn't and I most certainly have questioned the concept of sexual fidelity in later life and sought intimacy elsewhere, including here. So the concept of fidelity is outdated for me at least.

Which politely begs the question why stay together?"

I think the poster answered the question. For them sexual fidelity was not a deal breaker.

Why break up a perfectly good working marriage, simply because sex is not being enjoyed, when so many other areas may be very good?

Consider: "We are getting divorced because he is 1 stone over weight" would be met by howls of "You are WHAT??!!!" But substitute "1 stone over weight" with "because he had sex with another woman" and the understanding nodding starts. Should it and if so why?

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"Humans are very much like all the animals in the world: some mate for life and others don't. Cannot get any more basic than that ."

...in a nutshell!

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By *mallteaserWoman
over a year ago

Central

We all make our own choice in life and have too live with them, xx

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"Personally, if I were in a "relationship" I would not want to share him with anyone else, nor would I want to have anyone else. But for those who are in loving relationships and find that swinging works, all the more power to them. It just wouldn't be for me. "

^^^^^This!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Personally, I couldn't bear to watch a man I loved touch another woman. Wouldn't want to marry a man who wanted to watch me with another man either. But I will happily, as a single woman , have sex with married men or a couple in a relations

The first part of this: . Second part: no! I will not have sex with married/attached men."

That is a very clear position. Would you allow a married man to perform physiotheraphy on an injured leg, dentisty on a bad tooth or cut your hair? If you would why is sex singled out for special treatment? Are there any other things you ban married men from doing?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Personally, I couldn't bear to watch a man I loved touch another woman. Wouldn't want to marry a man who wanted to watch me with another man either. But I will happily, as a single woman , have sex with married men or a couple in a relations

Well I would have agreed with you totally not so long back but..... Now being part of a very loving couple... It adds to the sexual heat and tension and joys, of watching my partner f@@k another woman and he gets very turned on by watching me with another man ! But that is why we are all different, cos what a very boring world this would be if we all the same

I ended a relationship with a man because he had sex with my friend, with my consent. I realised I didn't love him because it didn't bother me he had sex with her. I'd rather a play partner if we aren't going to monogamous "

Is there anything else he could have done with your friend, in the absence of sex, that would have so abruptly ended your relationship?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Personally, I couldn't bear to watch a man I loved touch another woman. Wouldn't want to marry a man who wanted to watch me with another man either. But I will happily, as a single woman , have sex with married men or a couple in a relations

The first part of this: . Second part: no! I will not have sex with married/attached men.

That is a very clear position. Would you allow a married man to perform physiotheraphy on an injured leg, dentisty on a bad tooth or cut your hair? If you would why is sex singled out for special treatment? Are there any other things

you ban married men from doing?"

Perhaps because sex is something that mainstream society believes should be between a loving man and woman. This is the same society that believes that sex should really only take place after marriage and that it should only happen between members of the opposite sex.

Mainstream society takes a lot of its beliefs from the Bible. Whether it's wrong or right is a whole new ball game.

Personally, I think it's wrong! To us sex is just another fun thing to do, like a hobby almost. Sex between us is completely different from sex involving others. I think most couples on here might say the same.

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By *mnesiablissCouple
over a year ago

Dundee

[Removed by poster at 08/10/13 06:31:55]

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By *mnesiablissCouple
over a year ago

Dundee


"A relationship married or otherwise comes down to trust and respect, if you are cheating then you have neither quite simply.

I believe you missed the point here. The question is; should we continue to value sexual fidelity as a matter of trust or is it obsolete?

To explain further, there are many other areas of human relationship that could be similarly valued. Why is it not "cheating" for him to eat food that you did not produce? Get his hair cut by someone other than you? Do you see what I am saying? Why single out sexual fidelity and make it so darn important? "

There you go, missing the point in your own words....

The day he starts hiding where he goes for a haircut...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

Perhaps because sex is something that mainstream society believes should be between a loving man and woman. This is the same society that believes that sex should really only take place after marriage and that it should only happen between members of the opposite sex.

Mainstream society takes a lot of its beliefs from the Bible. Whether it's wrong or right is a whole new ball game.

Personally, I think it's wrong! To us sex is just another fun thing to do, like a hobby almost. Sex between us is completely different from sex involving others. I think most couples on here might say the same.

"

Thank you! You answered the question as far as you are concerened. It appears however "most" couples still appear to believe sexual fidelity is more important than other aspects of a relationship. Probably for religious or indoctrination reasons.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I suspect that most of vanilla/normal (or whatever you want to call it) society would take an equally dim view of swinging as they do cheating. I suspect most swingers can differentiate between the 2 which is why cheats are condemned and a combination of these 2 points is why cheats are often left confused that they are not necessarily amongst kindred spirits here."

Please can you address the question. You quite clearly believe sexual fidelity is very important. Why do you believe that? Why is sex more important than any other area of a relationship?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" I went into my marriage (over 40 years ago) believing in monogamous relationships. That was certainly part of my psyche, from parents, society in general and friends. If the sexual part of our marriage had been satisfactory, everything would have stayed that way. However, it wasn't and I most certainly have questioned the concept of sexual fidelity in later life and sought intimacy elsewhere, including here. So the concept of fidelity is outdated for me at least.

Which politely begs the question why stay together?

I think the poster answered the question. For them sexual fidelity was not a deal breaker.

Why break up a perfectly good working marriage, simply because sex is not being enjoyed, when so many other areas may be very good?

Consider: "We are getting divorced because he is 1 stone over weight" would be met by howls of "You are WHAT??!!!" But substitute "1 stone over weight" with "because he had sex with another woman" and the understanding nodding starts. Should it and if so why? "

No, if you go back and read his post it says that for HIM sexual fidelity was not a deal breaker.

We have no idea if his wife has any say in it and considering that his profile states she knows nothing about him being here I am not sure how any deal has been done at all.

Sounds like an autonomous and quite arbitrary decision to seek out something outside his marriage without first discussing it with his wife

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By *lanwoodMan
over a year ago

Alton


"Social anthropologists. What other reasons do you suggest? I am happy to have contributions

You want to discount indoctrination etc :p

Well, indoctrination imposes on the young the parameters of others (i.e. elders) and those parameters are carried forward into adulthood. Later in life many elements of indoctrination are questioned but some, e.g. sexual fidelity, often remain untested; almost as if it were part of a faith. I wondered if anyone wanted to test them?

I went into my marriage (over 40 years ago) believing in monogamous relationships. That was certainly part of my psyche, from parents, society in general and friends. If the sexual part of our marriage had been satisfactory, everything would have stayed that way. However, it wasn't and I most certainly have questioned the concept of sexual fidelity in later life and sought intimacy elsewhere, including here. So the concept of fidelity is outdated for me at least.

Which politely begs the question why stay together?"

Why? Because we still love each other, we are each other's best friends, we have children and grandchildren that we enjoy together, and who enjoy us together, because it would destroy us both if we were apart. Sex is just one aspect of a marriage that, for me, is detachable from everything else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I have no idea of your personal situation however after 34 years together here we both understand that anything not considered together is a kind of betrayal.

More to the point in a truly loving, respectful and honest relationship there is no need to 'cheat' on any subject

This is not about me.

This is not about cheating per se.

It is about whether or not sexual fidelity should be valued as highly as it is; usually higher than other events in a relationship.

What I understand you are saying is everything you do is done with the knowledge and consent of the other. In this scenario does sexual fidelity rank higher than say going to the chiropodist without telling the spouse?

"

Some would say the most precious thing you share with your spouse is your body which by any interpretation of the term 'marriage' is not a difficult concept to understand.

Sexual fidelity however is not the 'top of the shop' deal breaker as you put it, financial deceit, alcoholism, substance abuse, domestic violence, child abuse, intolerance and the list goes on are just a likely to cause break up as cheating does

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Social anthropologists. What other reasons do you suggest? I am happy to have contributions

You want to discount indoctrination etc :p

Well, indoctrination imposes on the young the parameters of others (i.e. elders) and those parameters are carried forward into adulthood. Later in life many elements of indoctrination are questioned but some, e.g. sexual fidelity, often remain untested; almost as if it were part of a faith. I wondered if anyone wanted to test them?

I went into my marriage (over 40 years ago) believing in monogamous relationships. That was certainly part of my psyche, from parents, society in general and friends. If the sexual part of our marriage had been satisfactory, everything would have stayed that way. However, it wasn't and I most certainly have questioned the concept of sexual fidelity in later life and sought intimacy elsewhere, including here. So the concept of fidelity is outdated for me at least.

Which politely begs the question why stay together?

Why? Because we still love each other, we are each other's best friends, we have children and grandchildren that we enjoy together, and who enjoy us together, because it would destroy us both if we were apart. Sex is just one aspect of a marriage that, for me, is detachable from everything else."

But is it detachable for her, in the concept of the promises made at the alter?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Forgot to add nothing judgemental in my comments, just that I have seen many instances where rather than deceive a spouse takes the courageous step to be honest.

Divorce etc does not neccisarily go hand in and with isolation and in my experience lots of people have gone on to live happy separate but intertwined lives with new partners and old family.

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By *lanwoodMan
over a year ago

Alton


"But is it detachable for her, in the concept of the promises made at the alter?

"

She has detached it in the sense that she would prefer sex to never happen, and usually achieves it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you can have animalistic sex with anyone but when you have real emotional and physical intimacy with a partner then that is something special and should be treasured...when one partner seeks that elsewhere and breaks that bond/trust then they simply should be put in the town stocks, pelted with rotten vedge, honey smeared on their buttocks, and a horny horse tied closely by to teach them a lesson...so in yes, I think the need for sexual fidelity should be more important than it clearly is, because although those original reasons don't stand up now, other reasons have replaced them such as the mental health and well being of those on the receiving end and the fallout that comes with cheating

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon


"Humans are very much like all the animals in the world: some mate for life and others don't. Cannot get any more basic than that ."

Of the roughly 5,000 species of mammals only 3 to 5 percent are known to form lifelong pair bonds, and some of those waste no time in ditching their partner if they do not perform sexually. Most have occasional flings on the side.

Even those regarded as exemplars of fidelity like gibbons and swans are now known to cheat, abandon, and 'divorce.

Over 90 percent of birds are socially monogamous, but frequently have sex with other parties.

Recent studies also show that homosexuality, and polygamy are rampant in the wild.

My point being that in the animal world the vast majority don't remain faithful for life. Humans, we are led to believe, do and if that is true, we are not very much alike all the other animals in the world.

Or are we, and culturally don't choose to be honest?

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes


"Social anthropologists. What other reasons do you suggest? I am happy to have contributions

You want to discount indoctrination etc :p

Well, indoctrination imposes on the young the parameters of others (i.e. elders) and those parameters are carried forward into adulthood. Later in life many elements of indoctrination are questioned but some, e.g. sexual fidelity, often remain untested; almost as if it were part of a faith. I wondered if anyone wanted to test them?

I went into my marriage (over 40 years ago) believing in monogamous relationships. That was certainly part of my psyche, from parents, society in general and friends. If the sexual part of our marriage had been satisfactory, everything would have stayed that way. However, it wasn't and I most certainly have questioned the concept of sexual fidelity in later life and sought intimacy elsewhere, including here. So the concept of fidelity is outdated for me at least."

Sex wasn't the issue in my marriage, in fact it was really good. But we had met in our teens, married in our 20s, and by our 40s had decided we wanted different things, or at least my ex did. We parted as good friends and have stayed that way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But is it detachable for her, in the concept of the promises made at the alter?

She has detached it in the sense that she would prefer sex to never happen, and usually achieves it."

Slightly evasive in that it does not answer the question of dies she know?

If she knew it would imply an agreed deal......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Sex wasn't the issue in my marriage, in fact it was really good. But we had met in our teens, married in our 20s, and by our 40s had decided we wanted different things, or at least my ex did. We parted as good friends and have stayed that way. "

That was a point I was trying to make, walking away from something with a smile on your face has to be better than being forced out of something you have destroyed

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By *atasha_DavidCouple
over a year ago

Slough

Eh. Yoo! Dinya kill ma brother? Yoo lookin at me pal? Eh!?

Some people just seem to want to pick a fight

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By *lanwoodMan
over a year ago

Alton


"But is it detachable for her, in the concept of the promises made at the alter?

She has detached it in the sense that she would prefer sex to never happen, and usually achieves it.

Slightly evasive in that it does not answer the question of dies she know?

If she knew it would imply an agreed deal......"

As you looked at my profile several hours ago, you already knew the answer to that. I am not being evasive in this thread.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Forgot to add nothing judgemental in my comments, just that I have seen many instances where rather than deceive a spouse takes the courageous step to be honest.

Divorce etc does not neccisarily go hand in and with isolation and in my experience lots of people have gone on to live happy separate but intertwined lives with new partners and old family."

That may be true but why should sexual fidelity be SO important that key relationships and social contracts are broken following the smallest failure to comply?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

That may be true but why should sexual fidelity be SO important that key relationships and social contracts are broken following the smallest failure to comply? "

The debate would probably be easier if you explained why you thought Fidelity was not important

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But is it detachable for her, in the concept of the promises made at the alter?

She has detached it in the sense that she would prefer sex to never happen, and usually achieves it.

Slightly evasive in that it does not answer the question of dies she know?

If she knew it would imply an agreed deal......

As you looked at my profile several hours ago, you already knew the answer to that. I am not being evasive in this thread."

Apologies just re read it

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By *lanwoodMan
over a year ago

Alton


"But is it detachable for her, in the concept of the promises made at the alter?

She has detached it in the sense that she would prefer sex to never happen, and usually achieves it.

Slightly evasive in that it does not answer the question of dies she know?

If she knew it would imply an agreed deal......

As you looked at my profile several hours ago, you already knew the answer to that. I am not being evasive in this thread.

Apologies just re read it "

Accepted.

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By *eddonistikMan
over a year ago

Manchester

It's basically fucking for fun isn't it?

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By *eakcoupleCouple
over a year ago

peak district

Easily available contraception has made sexual fidelity unnecessary and outdated. Couples swill still have sex together for children, love and companionship, but can now have sex with others just for fun.

Humans have always done this anyway - in the past people had affairs and one-night stands, women had lovers and men had mistresses. Now you can have an open marriage or swing together, like we do. Neither of us were very good at the fidelity thing with our exes, and swinging allows us to have the extramarital sex we both need and enjoy.

We've read that in very early societies children took their ancestry from their mothers, because sex was so free and easy nobody could be sure who their father was. You can blame patriarchal religions for the fidelity idea - it's all about control, anyway.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Easily available contraception has made sexual fidelity unnecessary and outdated. Couples swill still have sex together for children, love and companionship, but can now have sex with others just for fun.

Humans have always done this anyway - in the past people had affairs and one-night stands, women had lovers and men had mistresses. Now you can have an open marriage or swing together, like we do. Neither of us were very good at the fidelity thing with our exes, and swinging allows us to have the extramarital sex we both need and enjoy.

We've read that in very early societies children took their ancestry from their mothers, because sex was so free and easy nobody could be sure who their father was. You can blame patriarchal religions for the fidelity idea - it's all about control, anyway."

Nicely put! Religions seek to get control of people's actions and in this the control of sexuality is one of the ultimate controls. There is not a scrap of proof anywhere that this is required by God (if one exits) because every document in existence was written, in its entirety, by men. The same men who benefited from the obedience of those that followed the religion. Do I see a pattern emerging here? But i digress, sorry.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

That may be true but why should sexual fidelity be SO important that key relationships and social contracts are broken following the smallest failure to comply?

The debate would probably be easier if you explained why you thought Fidelity was not important "

Sorry for the delay in replying. It is "sexual fidelity" that is being considered here. Fidelity (i.e. faithfulness) per se is a different matter.

Why is sexual fidelity less important? Originally sex led to the procreation of children with all the implications that has. Now with abortion and effective contraception there is very little need to consider that as a risk. So if sex was invented today would we say it should only be between a married couple or should humans, who are inherently polygamous, be allowed to exercise their right to have sex wherever they want?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sexual fidelity, or any form of fidelity, is up to the couple to agree mutually when establishing or maintaining the relationship, irrespective of if it's the norm or not, in nature or not, since we are all responsible for our own actions, and as humans, free to choose to follow our gut/natural tendencies or overcome them with our mind.

From one norm to the other, there will Those that follow it and those that don't, no one should be pressured to do the opposite of what they want or have one half of a couple take that decision/choice from them as that's not fidelity is it. That would just be Cheating/breaching the trust or parameters of the relationship, and purely selfish....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And to answer the OP, I don't think sexual fidelity is more highly precedented than other forms of fidelity like emotional fidelity or financial fidelity ( I mean secretly hiding money from the relationship to the detriment of the relationships financial stability) and so on... Serious Infidelity, is equally as bad, IMO.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

That may be true but why should sexual fidelity be SO important that key relationships and social contracts are broken following the smallest failure to comply?

The debate would probably be easier if you explained why you thought Fidelity was not important

Sorry for the delay in replying. It is "sexual fidelity" that is being considered here. Fidelity (i.e. faithfulness) per se is a different matter.

Why is sexual fidelity less important? Originally sex led to the procreation of children with all the implications that has. Now with abortion and effective contraception there is very little need to consider that as a risk. So if sex was invented today would we say it should only be between a married couple or should humans, who are inherently polygamous, be allowed to exercise their right to have sex wherever they want? "

This will probably sound obtuse but if Fidelity = Faithfulness then are we not actually debating the pro's and con's of Sexual Faithfulness?

If its Sexual Faithfulness being discussed then I am not sure how breaking the faith, or betraying the trust of the promised faithfulness so to speak can be seen in any of the lights you suggest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It may not be the sexual infidelity itself. I strayed once, no sex- just D/s stuff,very sexual though. I came clean. My partner broke up with me. And I had to grovel to get him back. He forgave me, explaining that it wasn't the act itself. But the fact that I went behind his back, deceived and lied to him. He subsequently gave me permission to have what I craved insomuch as I was always honest with him about it. I think it's the fact that someone you love, who is supposed to love you, feels at ease with lying to you, and hiding from you. It erodes the trust. And that can be difficult if not impossible to regain.

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