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Boring

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By *enxxxxx30 OP   Woman
over a year ago

all

Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

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By *r SproutMan
over a year ago

the middle

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think it's the sunday morning horn dick speaks before the brain lol

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By *onny boy cMan
over a year ago

chorlton

Haha x

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By *wolf91Man
over a year ago

Rowley


"Think it's the sunday morning horn dick speaks before the brain lol"

I will hold my hands up, this dose happen my sincere apologies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Think it's the sunday morning horn dick speaks before the brain lol

I will hold my hands up, this dose happen my sincere apologies

"

Just dont do it then you dont need to apologise

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By *inky Biscuit DunkerMan
over a year ago

Gloucestershire


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring "

FAF?

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By *ig-Bull-EssexMan
over a year ago

Southend

All I can picture is Rodney at Christmas.

"Boring. Boring. Booorrrriiiinnnnggg!"

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I've been told it's not school, it's a sex site, so written expression is or should be irrelevant.

Unfortunately if you're expressing yourself in writing, written expression is relevant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring "

Women stop being so mysterious if ya want us to speak in a certain way maybe some examples as to how you would like to be messaged.

Do you want the hey how you doing, you look amazing and wow your profile was a great read or

Dirty as fuck. My fucking god your pictures made me horny as fuck I'd love to .....bla bla bla

Examples please it's a damn minefield

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

Women stop being so mysterious if ya want us to speak in a certain way maybe some examples as to how you would like to be messaged.

Do you want the hey how you doing, you look amazing and wow your profile was a great read or

Dirty as fuck. My fucking god your pictures made me horny as fuck I'd love to .....bla bla bla

Examples please it's a damn minefield "

Message the way you think is appropriate given the profile in question.

It tells us about you and whether or not we'll be compatible.

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By *eroLondonMan
over a year ago

Mayfair

"Better" crap is still crap, surely?

Admittedly, I still don't understand OP's post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""Better" crap is still crap, surely?

Admittedly, I still don't understand OP's post. "

Fancy a fuck.. oh wot ad love to do to you.. sit on my face, these types of messages

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By *eroLondonMan
over a year ago

Mayfair


""Better" crap is still crap, surely?

Admittedly, I still don't understand OP's post.

Fancy a fuck.. oh wot ad love to do to you.. sit on my face, these types of messages"

Now it makes sense. Thank you.

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By *uitednbooted2Man
over a year ago

Berkshire


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring "

Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh

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By *ames-77Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

There are some boring fuckers on here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There are some boring fuckers on here "

In what way? Whats boring to you?

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By *enxxxxx30 OP   Woman
over a year ago

all


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh "

always one have a good day x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh "

No need

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By *enxxxxx30 OP   Woman
over a year ago

all


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh "

Sad same shit man writes crap then blocks you haha says it all, be a man not a boy x

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By *eroLondonMan
over a year ago

Mayfair

Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP. "

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

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By *hil most chillMan
over a year ago

South East & Europe


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh "

Yeah who can believe an attractive woman on a sex site gets messages? Unfathomable

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By *enxxxxx30 OP   Woman
over a year ago

all


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this "

So true am sorry if you don't understand or don't like what I said but I really don't need to explain it to some of you do I? Is a women not allowed to say it's boring? Am just saying how I feel that's all. So sorry all next time I will just talk about my pussy or my dirty nickers

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this "

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that

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By *enxxxxx30 OP   Woman
over a year ago

all


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that"

?? Did I say that! Think you all are over thinking this haha all I said is I find it boring what some people write some people will like that crap some will not I said it's boring

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that"

The guy wrote a rather not nice comment about the lady, she did not sign up for that either!

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By *ingdong11Man
over a year ago

emsworth


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring "

Women , stop wasting your time moaning on the forum knowing full well it won’t change anything, just block and move on .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

Women , stop wasting your time moaning on the forum knowing full well it won’t change anything, just block and move on ."

Jeezo the forums will be come aghost town if everyone wasnt to post what they were feeling...

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that ?? Did I say that! Think you all are over thinking this haha all I said is I find it boring what some people write some people will like that crap some will not I said it's boring "

No, and I wasn't replying to you

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that

The guy wrote a rather not nice comment about the lady, she did not sign up for that either!"

So you think that people who post on the forum should only receive positive comments?

I thought it was a place for discussion within forum rules.

It is generally considered poor form to message off the forum - and presumably that applies for all genders, not just when men do it to women.

(I've received no private messages from this thread, if it matters)

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By *hil most chillMan
over a year ago

South East & Europe


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP. "

I'll echo this, especially as OP seems confused about who has been saying what...

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By *olden PoleMan
over a year ago

Kent

How about you women message us guys with something exciting and worthy of our attention and effort rather than bitching about men, dick pics and just about every other thing.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"How about you women message us guys with something exciting and worthy of our attention and effort rather than bitching about men, dick pics and just about every other thing."

I do when I consider it worth my time and effort

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that

The guy wrote a rather not nice comment about the lady, she did not sign up for that either!

So you think that people who post on the forum should only receive positive comments?

I thought it was a place for discussion within forum rules.

It is generally considered poor form to message off the forum - and presumably that applies for all genders, not just when men do it to women.

(I've received no private messages from this thread, if it matters)"

She was posting about boring messages shes recieved, not asking for personal insults, i agree people can comment anything they wish but when they comments are a personal attack on someone thats just not called for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My advice is…..on a night out in a pub, you want to talk to me, message me what you would say if we were face to face. Pretty sure it wouldn’t be “hey you free for my cock today?”

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that

The guy wrote a rather not nice comment about the lady, she did not sign up for that either!

So you think that people who post on the forum should only receive positive comments?

I thought it was a place for discussion within forum rules.

It is generally considered poor form to message off the forum - and presumably that applies for all genders, not just when men do it to women.

(I've received no private messages from this thread, if it matters)

She was posting about boring messages shes recieved, not asking for personal insults, i agree people can comment anything they wish but when they comments are a personal attack on someone thats just not called for. "

I believe he expressed misunderstanding of the premise of the OP. If that's a personal attack then I think that's a pretty low bar. I see way worse on here all the time!

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By *enxxxxx30 OP   Woman
over a year ago

all


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

Women , stop wasting your time moaning on the forum knowing full well it won’t change anything, just block and move on ."

You say moaning! Am not moaning all I said is boring crap sorry if you say moaning but if you don't like what I said don't waste your time texting on it! Just block me and have a great day have fun x

I know it won't change anything was just saying how I feel that's all, you mite find me boring and sad! And you are allowed to say that if you wish, I will not take offence or be arsey but I was really not moaning just saying how I as a person find some of it x

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh

always one have a good day x"

It's pretty good even the boobs they are hmmm

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 12/03/23 15:41:49]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Here's a thought:

Shall we all speak just a little more respectfully to each other?

Hey, weirdly, people might actually manage a civilised discussion/debate.

Maybe just pie in the sky, but got to be worth a go?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that

The guy wrote a rather not nice comment about the lady, she did not sign up for that either!

So you think that people who post on the forum should only receive positive comments?

I thought it was a place for discussion within forum rules.

It is generally considered poor form to message off the forum - and presumably that applies for all genders, not just when men do it to women.

(I've received no private messages from this thread, if it matters)

She was posting about boring messages shes recieved, not asking for personal insults, i agree people can comment anything they wish but when they comments are a personal attack on someone thats just not called for.

I believe he expressed misunderstanding of the premise of the OP. If that's a personal attack then I think that's a pretty low bar. I see way worse on here all the time!"

"Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh"

Thats a personal insult nothing to do with what the OP posted about, there was no need for him to even comment

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

Women , stop wasting your time moaning on the forum knowing full well it won’t change anything, just block and move on .

You say moaning! Am not moaning all I said is boring crap sorry if you say moaning but if you don't like what I said don't waste your time texting on it! Just block me and have a great day have fun x

I know it won't change anything was just saying how I feel that's all, you mite find me boring and sad! And you are allowed to say that if you wish, I will not take offence or be arsey but I was really not moaning just saying how I as a person find some of it x"

Actually, it's a pretty established forum rule that you can't critique profiles on threads where it hadn't been requested. Which you didn't.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that

The guy wrote a rather not nice comment about the lady, she did not sign up for that either!

So you think that people who post on the forum should only receive positive comments?

I thought it was a place for discussion within forum rules.

It is generally considered poor form to message off the forum - and presumably that applies for all genders, not just when men do it to women.

(I've received no private messages from this thread, if it matters)

She was posting about boring messages shes recieved, not asking for personal insults, i agree people can comment anything they wish but when they comments are a personal attack on someone thats just not called for.

I believe he expressed misunderstanding of the premise of the OP. If that's a personal attack then I think that's a pretty low bar. I see way worse on here all the time!

"Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh"

Thats a personal insult nothing to do with what the OP posted about, there was no need for him to even comment

"

That wasn't NeroLondon, who you're replying to, it was someone else.

Nero said that "better" crap is still crap and expressed confusion about the thread

And that he doesn't appreciate private messages from the thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that

The guy wrote a rather not nice comment about the lady, she did not sign up for that either!

So you think that people who post on the forum should only receive positive comments?

I thought it was a place for discussion within forum rules.

It is generally considered poor form to message off the forum - and presumably that applies for all genders, not just when men do it to women.

(I've received no private messages from this thread, if it matters)

She was posting about boring messages shes recieved, not asking for personal insults, i agree people can comment anything they wish but when they comments are a personal attack on someone thats just not called for.

I believe he expressed misunderstanding of the premise of the OP. If that's a personal attack then I think that's a pretty low bar. I see way worse on here all the time!

"Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh"

Thats a personal insult nothing to do with what the OP posted about, there was no need for him to even comment

That wasn't NeroLondon, who you're replying to, it was someone else.

Nero said that "better" crap is still crap and expressed confusion about the thread

And that he doesn't appreciate private messages from the thread."

Thats not who my original reply was to.. _uitednbooted2 was my reply

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that

The guy wrote a rather not nice comment about the lady, she did not sign up for that either!

So you think that people who post on the forum should only receive positive comments?

I thought it was a place for discussion within forum rules.

It is generally considered poor form to message off the forum - and presumably that applies for all genders, not just when men do it to women.

(I've received no private messages from this thread, if it matters)

She was posting about boring messages shes recieved, not asking for personal insults, i agree people can comment anything they wish but when they comments are a personal attack on someone thats just not called for.

I believe he expressed misunderstanding of the premise of the OP. If that's a personal attack then I think that's a pretty low bar. I see way worse on here all the time!

"Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh"

Thats a personal insult nothing to do with what the OP posted about, there was no need for him to even comment

That wasn't NeroLondon, who you're replying to, it was someone else.

Nero said that "better" crap is still crap and expressed confusion about the thread

And that he doesn't appreciate private messages from the thread.

Thats not who my original reply was to.. _uitednbooted2 was my reply"

Ok. My apologies. I still think the dogpile is in exceedingly poor form, even if the original post is also in poor form.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that

The guy wrote a rather not nice comment about the lady, she did not sign up for that either!

So you think that people who post on the forum should only receive positive comments?

I thought it was a place for discussion within forum rules.

It is generally considered poor form to message off the forum - and presumably that applies for all genders, not just when men do it to women.

(I've received no private messages from this thread, if it matters)

She was posting about boring messages shes recieved, not asking for personal insults, i agree people can comment anything they wish but when they comments are a personal attack on someone thats just not called for.

I believe he expressed misunderstanding of the premise of the OP. If that's a personal attack then I think that's a pretty low bar. I see way worse on here all the time!

"Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh"

Thats a personal insult nothing to do with what the OP posted about, there was no need for him to even comment

That wasn't NeroLondon, who you're replying to, it was someone else.

Nero said that "better" crap is still crap and expressed confusion about the thread

And that he doesn't appreciate private messages from the thread.

Thats not who my original reply was to.. _uitednbooted2 was my reply

Ok. My apologies. I still think the dogpile is in exceedingly poor form, even if the original post is also in poor form."

Your opinion lol i agree with the OP 100%

Have a nice sunday evening x

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By *uitednbooted2Man
over a year ago

Berkshire


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh

Sad same shit man writes crap then blocks you haha says it all, be a man not a boy x"

You criticise men for boring lazy messages but your profile is dull and lazy. People in glass houses…………..

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By *aunchy RaccoonsCouple
over a year ago

Exeter

"Mmmmmmmm"

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By *enxxxxx30 OP   Woman
over a year ago

all


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh

Sad same shit man writes crap then blocks you haha says it all, be a man not a boy x

You criticise men for boring lazy messages but your profile is dull and lazy. People in glass houses………….. "

so how would you see my profile if you have blocked me! Haha see this was never about profile or messages to me that is just something you have made up, this was about the forum as that is where this is! Not profiles or messages, I said it's boring as it's the same thing all the time, so please stop with the profile bit or messages as that is not true, don't have to get man or be mean do you I never said your profile or messages are boring did I? But ok if you want to make up that it's ok hope you have a good night, and the anger goes x

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By *enxxxxx30 OP   Woman
over a year ago

all


"Please keep all responses to the thread, OP.

You should tell that to the guys who private message off the back of this

So because this poster doesn't want private messages, he's responsible for all men who post or lurk on this thread?

Does that mean you and I are responsible for all the women? Because I did not sign up for that

The guy wrote a rather not nice comment about the lady, she did not sign up for that either!

So you think that people who post on the forum should only receive positive comments?

I thought it was a place for discussion within forum rules.

It is generally considered poor form to message off the forum - and presumably that applies for all genders, not just when men do it to women.

(I've received no private messages from this thread, if it matters)

She was posting about boring messages shes recieved, not asking for personal insults, i agree people can comment anything they wish but when they comments are a personal attack on someone thats just not called for.

I believe he expressed misunderstanding of the premise of the OP. If that's a personal attack then I think that's a pretty low bar. I see way worse on here all the time!

"Just looked at your profile OP. Surprised you get guys messaging you tbh"

Thats a personal insult nothing to do with what the OP posted about, there was no need for him to even comment

That wasn't NeroLondon, who you're replying to, it was someone else.

Nero said that "better" crap is still crap and expressed confusion about the thread

And that he doesn't appreciate private messages from the thread.

Thats not who my original reply was to.. _uitednbooted2 was my reply

Ok. My apologies. I still think the dogpile is in exceedingly poor form, even if the original post is also in poor form."

Thanks for your opinion on it will take it in, but I am allowed to say how I feel ain't I? Or is not allowed with you and your group of friends to say the forum is boring!!

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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down

There is a very simple solution to the issue of recieving crap messages if you don't like them and they annoy you.

Just block all incoming mail and search for profile you like and send the first messages yourself.

Posting on here will change absolutely nothing because a very tiny minority use the forums and most who send faf etc messages will just continue to do it anyhow even if they do read this.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

Thanks for your opinion on it will take it in, but I am allowed to say how I feel ain't I? Or is not allowed with you and your group of friends to say the forum is boring!! "

It's not for me to determine what is and isn't allowed in the forum. It's the mods who do that.

I agreed with you initially, as it happens: however, I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are.

Messages on Fab can suck and be boring? Absolutely agreed.

Critiquing your profile unless you specifically ask for it? Bad form.

Deflecting from being asked not to send unsolicited messages by saying that men shouldn't do it? Bad argument and bad form.

Dogpiling in a thread? Bad form.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Thanks for your opinion on it will take it in, but I am allowed to say how I feel ain't I? Or is not allowed with you and your group of friends to say the forum is boring!!

It's not for me to determine what is and isn't allowed in the forum. It's the mods who do that.

I agreed with you initially, as it happens: however, I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are.

Messages on Fab can suck and be boring? Absolutely agreed.

Critiquing your profile unless you specifically ask for it? Bad form.

Deflecting from being asked not to send unsolicited messages by saying that men shouldn't do it? Bad argument and bad form.

Dogpiling in a thread? Bad form."

That was me who commented men shouldnt do it not the OP.. it wasnt a deflection it was a counterbased comment as id just been messaged off forum and im entitled to comment what i like within the rules

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By *enxxxxx30 OP   Woman
over a year ago

all


"There is a very simple solution to the issue of recieving crap messages if you don't like them and they annoy you.

Just block all incoming mail and search for profile you like and send the first messages yourself.

Posting on here will change absolutely nothing because a very tiny minority use the forums and most who send faf etc messages will just continue to do it anyhow even if they do read this."

Not really sure what you all mean I never said private message all I said or ment is the forum is boring as it's the same shit ever day, not messages to me! On the forum, but everyone has just started on about messages and profiles if you read though it you will see other people started going on about that not me! But ok have a great night x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring "

Copy and paste most id say

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By *remiumbondMan
over a year ago

Morpeth

Is it actually worth writing a long interesting introductory post to be ignored!!!! Or a one liner and then interact if someone is interested????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it actually worth writing a long interesting introductory post to be ignored!!!! Or a one liner and then interact if someone is interested????"

Doesn’t need to be a long interesting 1 but a polite and a bit of banter when sending the first message would be a lot better than a one liner I’d say

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hi

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By *oxy jWoman
over a year ago

taunton somerset

nope everyone stay as they are and write what they want to write ... its the best filter on fab by allowing people to be themselves ...

and its not just single guys

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By *enxxxxx30 OP   Woman
over a year ago

all


"nope everyone stay as they are and write what they want to write ... its the best filter on fab by allowing people to be themselves ...

and its not just single guys"

don't mean to be rude but I never once said the word SINGLE GUYS did I? I just said guys and yes you are spot on anyone can write and say what ever they want. But nasty words are not nice are they? It's bullying

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By *lackfunderMan
over a year ago

Trafford

How does the op has a verification from 9 months ago but has only had the profile for 8 months?

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By *ingdong11Man
over a year ago

emsworth


"Guys come up with better crap to say apart from same old perv shit boring

Women , stop wasting your time moaning on the forum knowing full well it won’t change anything, just block and move on .

You say moaning! Am not moaning all I said is boring crap sorry if you say moaning but if you don't like what I said don't waste your time texting on it! Just block me and have a great day have fun x

I know it won't change anything was just saying how I feel that's all, you mite find me boring and sad! And you are allowed to say that if you wish, I will not take offence or be arsey but I was really not moaning just saying how I as a person find some of it x"

Boring !!!!

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By *inkycreamCouple
over a year ago

manchester

Message in one hand wank in the other see which one fills up first.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How does the op has a verification from 9 months ago but has only had the profile for 8 months?"

I think that's a site thing, sort of glitchy when it comes to timescales

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By *lackfunderMan
over a year ago

Trafford


"How does the op has a verification from 9 months ago but has only had the profile for 8 months?

I think that's a site thing, sort of glitchy when it comes to timescales "

Fair enough was thinking that

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