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"I was just sat reading "married" threads n thinking wow they do get stick so i thought i,d post my situation and see what comes back Im quite thik skined LOL" yes they can become quite emotive. good of you to share. good luck on the site | |||
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 and i am not judging u honestly anyone who knows my situation knows i not. but i have to ask this cause i would of any guy in your situation r u being fair to her ? and from what u said u r thinking about it from your point of _iew but i am thinking if she knew what u were doing however horrible for u she would probably leave so its a risk u take even if u aren't getting what u want at home x
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"are you justifying your position or asking for advice? If you're justifying your position...don't! People will either meet married guys or not there is no inbetween of "meeting because it isn't his fault". If you want advice you will be given it in spades I suspect "Interesting. I think this guy has come on here and been very honest explainng his situation. He didn't ask for your advice - I see no questions - and for you to tell him "If you're justifying your position...don't!" is rather rude, to say the least. Do you know your profile name says Nicecouple? You might want to rethink that one - you don't too 'nice' from here. You sound rather judgmental. I believe he has every right to come here and say what he feels. Whether you like it or not. I too have seen married men being lambasted by the great and the righteous and fair play to this guy. Hey, good on you mate - and good luck | |||
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" Here we we go for the haters People say leave her if you play away move away its not fair to partner etc etc. Ive been married twice one son who when we splt i drove 400 miles round trips EVERY wkend for 8 yrs.I now have two more kidsThat I love. wife not interested in sex full stop so what do you do leave? ok i take home £1450 a month from that i would pay rent £400 (cheap in Wales) £550 child care (both work)thats my half rates electric etc.She,s the same It dont leave much and back to seeing kids for wkends more money and kid from 2 homes and all that brings wife is great in most other areas So we stay together and i look.I have met two people from this site one (coffee) another coffee n extas (no veri so dont look LOL)and was told "your wifes mad missing this"so im not crap in bed and its not because i put more effort in as far as im concerned the woman is the one to be given maximum attention and pleasure who ever she is, as a man its easy to cum What a ramble(and crap punctuation lol) "Doesn't change the fact that you are still married, playing behind wife's back. You say you don't want to split up, would cost too much financially, we'll, when you slip up, and she finds this site, or maybe a text, or a number she doesn't recognise on your phone bill,and discovers you've been cheating on her, then I hope you play away from home fun was worth it. Funny how every guy says wife has stopped having sex that why I'm on here, ever thought to question why.... That is of course, assuming she really has given sex up ! | |||
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" That wouldn't necessarily be a reason for leaving her and ruining the rest of your life (and hers). " What pisses me off is that so many married men feel the need to justify their actions and take exception to those who will not accept their justification. Cheating is and always be a selfish option. That sentence I've quoted secreams selfishness. I love the last 2 words, the fact tha wife is added in brackets as an after thought. The fact that the implication is thyat by cheating and not leaving her you are actually doing her a favour when the reality is you are too pathetic too have the balls to man up and walk because you don;t want to ruin your life... | |||
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Which is not what floats my boat! | |||
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" That wouldn't necessarily be a reason for leaving her and ruining the rest of your life (and hers). What pisses me off is that so many married men feel the need to justify their actions and take exception to those who will not accept their justification. Cheating is and always be a selfish option. That sentence I've quoted secreams selfishness. I love the last 2 words, the fact tha wife is added in brackets as an after thought. The fact that the implication is thyat by cheating and not leaving her you are actually doing her a favour when the reality is you are too pathetic too have the balls to man up and walk because you don;t want to ruin your life... " This is quite funny. You clearly don't understand how deep love can be. You choose one line and place it out of context. The comment goes on to talk about the many elements of marriage. Quote these too perhaps if you're going dissect. Also, to help you understand why the 'and hers' is in brackets - the original post is from the married mans point of _iew - I'd prefer not to exclude the lady here as she is just as important. - If you have a MercedesBenz and you have a scratch on the door you're not going to buy a new car for the sake of that scratch. | |||
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" You clearly don't understand how deep love can be." So you cheat on her because you love her? Glad we cleared that one up... " If you have a MercedesBenz and you have a scratch on the door you're not going to buy a new car for the sake of that scratch." So when you wife finds out you are on the internet actively looking for sex, she will _iew that as a scratch on the door? Something that will rub out? Personally, I suspect the analogy would be more that the car had been written off in a multi-vehicle pile up... | |||
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" That wouldn't necessarily be a reason for leaving her and ruining the rest of your life (and hers). What pisses me off is that so many married men feel the need to justify their actions and take exception to those who will not accept their justification. Cheating is and always be a selfish option. That sentence I've quoted secreams selfishness. I love the last 2 words, the fact tha wife is added in brackets as an after thought. The fact that the implication is thyat by cheating and not leaving her you are actually doing her a favour when the reality is you are too pathetic too have the balls to man up and walk because you don;t want to ruin your life... This is quite funny. You clearly don't understand how deep love can be. You choose one line and place it out of context. The comment goes on to talk about the many elements of marriage. Quote these too perhaps if you're going dissect. Also, to help you understand why the 'and hers' is in brackets - the original post is from the married mans point of _iew - I'd prefer not to exclude the lady here as she is just as important. - If you have a MercedesBenz and you have a scratch on the door you're not going to buy a new car for the sake of that scratch."  | |||
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"I am married. Hubby and I have singles and a joint profile on here. I really feel for hubby when he chats to women who wont meet married men. He offers them the chance to talk to me, message me, whatever. So some just wont meet married men full stop. Our marriage is very strong and can take this and I am more highly sexed than hubby is. I will and do meet married men. I personally don't see justification and morals with being on here at all but we love it. Surely we're all here to enjoy it. And please don't shout at me. It's just my opinion "your case if different... most people dont have an issue if the other person knows as there is consent there... I meet married women so long as hubby knows.... its those playing away without consent that is more of the issue..... | |||
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" You clearly don't understand how deep love can be. So you cheat on her because you love her? Glad we cleared that one up... If you have a MercedesBenz and you have a scratch on the door you're not going to buy a new car for the sake of that scratch. So when you wife finds out you are on the internet actively looking for sex, she will _iew that as a scratch on the door? Something that will rub out? Personally, I suspect the analogy would be more that the car had been written off in a multi-vehicle pile up... " Your comedic value is clearly going unnoticed. You should be on the stage. With a brush perhaps. I'm not here to explain myself, or justify my actions to the likes of you. Nor will I. Read the original post again and my first reply then you may see the irony of your comment. Take care and enjoy your perfect life. xx | |||
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"because I am a straight talking person I may as well ask a straight talking question... "is the sex truely worth the risk of the "worst scenario possible" happening?"... because if it is.... its doesn't really say a lot about someone marriage and again the person they profess to love more than any other...." Think that's pretty naive. Sex is an urge, it's hard to switch off and if a partner's no longer interested that can become a big problem in an otherwise happy relationship. I reckon monagamy's on the way out. In 100 years time people will look back at laugh at our generation the same way we do at the idea of no sex until marriage | |||
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"Wow, there are some very nasty comments being thrown here... Seriously, guys, have a cup of tea and chill the fuck out. - Amy. x" | |||
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" Doesn't change the fact that you are still married, playing behind wife's back. You say you don't want to split up, would cost too much financially, we'll, when you slip up, and she finds this site, or maybe a text, or a number she doesn't recognise on your phone bill,and discovers you've been cheating on her, then I hope you play away from home fun was worth it. Funny how every guy says wife has stopped having sex that why I'm on here, ever thought to question why.... That is of course, assuming she really has given sex up !" Oh look a soap box drama queen who feels to need to get her point across. If this was a woman I bet you'd be going "YOU GO SISTA!"
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" Doesn't change the fact that you are still married, playing behind wife's back. You say you don't want to split up, would cost too much financially, we'll, when you slip up, and she finds this site, or maybe a text, or a number she doesn't recognise on your phone bill,and discovers you've been cheating on her, then I hope you play away from home fun was worth it. Funny how every guy says wife has stopped having sex that why I'm on here, ever thought to question why.... That is of course, assuming she really has given sex up ! Oh look a soap box drama queen who feels to need to get her point across. If this was a woman I bet you'd be going "YOU GO SISTA!"
"Wrong, my _iew would be same for married women playing behind husbands back also, so not quite soap box rant, just my opinion. If you can't stay faithful, don't get married... | |||
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" Here we we go for the haters People say leave her if you play away move away its not fair to partner etc etc. Ive been married twice one son who when we splt i drove 400 miles round trips EVERY wkend for 8 yrs.I now have two more kidsThat I love. wife not interested in sex full stop so what do you do leave? ok i take home £1450 a month from that i would pay rent £400 (cheap in Wales) £550 child care (both work)thats my half rates electric etc.She,s the same It dont leave much and back to seeing kids for wkends more money and kid from 2 homes and all that brings wife is great in most other areas So we stay together and i look.I have met two people from this site one (coffee) another coffee n extas (no veri so dont look LOL)and was told "your wifes mad missing this"so im not crap in bed and its not because i put more effort in as far as im concerned the woman is the one to be given maximum attention and pleasure who ever she is, as a man its easy to cum What a ramble(and crap punctuation lol) "There will be a number here who sympathise with your situation. There will be many others who think you are a cheating, adulterous bloke only interested in satisfying your cock. We are all here for our own reasons. The only person you have to justify what you decide is yourself. | |||
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" Doesn't change the fact that you are still married, playing behind wife's back. You say you don't want to split up, would cost too much financially, we'll, when you slip up, and she finds this site, or maybe a text, or a number she doesn't recognise on your phone bill,and discovers you've been cheating on her, then I hope you play away from home fun was worth it. Funny how every guy says wife has stopped having sex that why I'm on here, ever thought to question why.... That is of course, assuming she really has given sex up ! Oh look a soap box drama queen who feels to need to get her point across. If this was a woman I bet you'd be going "YOU GO SISTA!"
Wrong, my _iew would be same for married women playing behind husbands back also, so not quite soap box rant, just my opinion. If you can't stay faithful, don't get married..."I suspect everyone starts out intending to remain completely faithful. I envy the ones that manage to maintain that. | |||
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"I am married. Hubby and I have singles and a joint profile on here. I really feel for hubby when he chats to women who wont meet married men. He offers them the chance to talk to me, message me, whatever. So some just wont meet married men full stop. Our marriage is very strong and can take this and I am more highly sexed than hubby is. I will and do meet married men. I personally don't see justification and morals with being on here at all but we love it. Surely we're all here to enjoy it. And please don't shout at me. It's just my opinion "Difference is, you and your husband both playing with consent, no issues with that at all,I do have issues with those playing behind partners back, and trying to justify it by saying they stopped having sex ( maybe we should ask the unsuspecting partner if this is true) | |||
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Tony | |||
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"Me and Shaz went though a stage where Her sex drive went from being huge to none at all, was like it for a good 6 month, was a bit of a killer for me to. We did manage to sit and talk about it and find out why though (found it was her birth control pills killing her drive) Anyway, I didn't even think about looking for sex in other places, I was to concerned there maybe something medically wrong with her or I may be doing something wrong .. or not at all. We are back to normal now though like 2 duracell bunnies lol So things can get better
Tony "I'm pleased for you that it worked out. I lasted a couple of years before I started to stray. | |||
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"I fail to see why some people on here feel the need to take this holier than thou attitude. If you don't want to meet married men then don't, but please don't start acting like Mary Whitehouse about blokes looking for some nsa adult fun. After all, it isn't your affair." hold on... the thread was created for a mixture of _iews to be honest | |||
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"are you justifying your position or asking for advice? If you're justifying your position...don't! People will either meet married guys or not there is no inbetween of "meeting because it isn't his fault". If you want advice you will be given it in spades I suspect
Interesting.
I think this guy has come on here and been very honest explainng his situation.
He didn't ask for your advice - I see no questions - and for you to tell him "If you're justifying your position...don't!" is rather rude, to say the least.
Do you know your profile name says Nicecouple? You might want to rethink that one - you don't too 'nice' from here.
You sound rather judgmental.
I believe he has every right to come here and say what he feels.
Whether you like it or not.
I too have seen married men being lambasted by the great and the righteous and fair play to this guy.
Hey, good on you mate - and good luck"I merely told him that if he was justifying his position there was no.point, this wasn't rude it was straight talking and actually might help him. People don't want one sided justification. I have read and reread my post and can't see where I'm being judgemental or rude but it's just about how you read.it I suppose. Thanks for your comments anyway and your judgements about whether I'm rude or nice. | |||
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"Wow, there are some very nasty comments being thrown here... Seriously, guys, have a cup of tea and chill the fuck out. - Amy. x "xx | |||
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"We will meet married men and women. Its their relationship after all. However we will NOT lie for them, cover for them or in anyway hide the fact we've met, so if a wife/G/F etc evfer texted,mailed or saw us and asked if we've met said Partner, we'd tell the truth, yes we met, yes off a swingers site, yes we had sex how many times we did. Its not our place to cover up their cheating and get hassle because of it, after all we are not cheating they are " | |||
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"if you and your wife's relationship went back to shall we say normal relations resumed would you give up this site and would you stop looking for sex elsewhere !!!! " Yes I would | |||
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"if you and your wife's relationship went back to shall we say normal relations resumed would you give up this site and would you stop looking for sex elsewhere !!!! Yes I would" Aww hope It gets sorted out x | |||
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" Aww hope It gets sorted out x" Thank you . I have my reasons for being on here . One day I hope I won't need to use this site | |||
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"some women have low sex drives,and like mine some have high," This is very very TRUE, doesn't mean we don't love our wives | |||
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"I fail to see why some people on here feel the need to take this holier than thou attitude. If you don't want to meet married men then don't, but please don't start acting like Mary Whitehouse about blokes looking for some nsa adult fun. After all, it isn't your affair." I think its intellectual snobbery. Everyone joins this site because they're Interested in sex with strangers, but you'll always get the competitive social climbers who want to make their casual sex better than anyone else's | |||
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"We will meet married men and women. Its their relationship after all. However we will NOT lie for them, cover for them or in anyway hide the fact we've met, so if a wife/G/F etc evfer texted,mailed or saw us and asked if we've met said Partner, we'd tell the truth, yes we met, yes off a swingers site, yes we had sex how many times we did. Its not our place to cover up their cheating and get hassle because of it, after all we are not cheating they are "That is so two faced. You'll take part in the deception but then happily drop him in it if pushed for the 'truth' just so you can walk away with your heads held high and say, "we didn't lie". Why not ask the guy's wife BEFORE you have sex with him and see if she agrees. If she says yes ok then you can claim the moral high ground. | |||
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"I am married. Hubby and I have singles and a joint profile on here. I really feel for hubby when he chats to women who wont meet married men. He offers them the chance to talk to me, message me, whatever. So some just wont meet married men full stop. Our marriage is very strong and can take this and I am more highly sexed than hubby is. I will and do meet married men. I personally don't see justification and morals with being on here at all but we love it. Surely we're all here to enjoy it. And please don't shout at me. It's just my opinion
your case if different... most people dont have an issue if the other person knows as there is consent there... I meet married women so long as hubby knows....
its those playing away without consent that is more of the issue....."Really?! what is the percentage of women on here who will meet a married man if his wife knows, but won't if she doesn't? Personally I have seen a lot of profiles that say a variation of: won't meet attached men even if have permission. I suspect that this is because of some guys claiming to have permission when they don't, which could be true even if that guy is on here as part of a couple. But ask haven't done the research you have I obviously can't make a definite statement about that... | |||
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"Am glad you posted this ramble, as you say because someone has commented that I almost met and glad that I didn't in the end (his fault not mine) because I now realise that he is married and cheating on his partner and as its not my thing, I got a lucky escape "oops  | |||
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"I don't see why one partner should be forced into a life of celibacy he doesn't want simply because his wife is no longer interested in sex. Why thy body etc.. break that agreement and the contract between you is broken. Obviously, if there is a chance, albeit a slim one, that your sex life with your wife can be restarted then that's the way you should go, but if it's broken down irretrievably then she has no justfication holding you to a promise of exclusivity if she's not honouring her side of the bargain." Exactly | |||
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"We will meet married men and women. Its their relationship after all. However we will NOT lie for them, cover for them or in anyway hide the fact we've met, so if a wife/G/F etc evfer texted,mailed or saw us and asked if we've met said Partner, we'd tell the truth, yes we met, yes off a swingers site, yes we had sex how many times we did. Its not our place to cover up their cheating and get hassle because of it, after all we are not cheating they are
That is so two faced. You'll take part in the deception but then happily drop him in it if pushed for the 'truth' just so you can walk away with your heads held high and say, "we didn't lie". Why not ask the guy's wife BEFORE you have sex with him and see if she agrees. If she says yes ok then you can claim the moral high ground."Its not the moral high ground we are after. Had it in the past, met someone, turns out married. We was asked to cover for them, which we did, the partner then found out the truth and the trouble we had because we covered for them was way beyond fun. Not all marrieds are honest,and you sometims have to take people at face value,but we wont go through that hassle and trouble again just to save someone eles marrage because they cheated. | |||
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"I fail to see why some people on here feel the need to take this holier than thou attitude. If you don't want to meet married men then don't, but please don't start acting like Mary Whitehouse about blokes looking for some nsa adult fun. After all, it isn't your affair. I think its intellectual snobbery. Everyone joins this site because they're Interested in sex with strangers, but you'll always get the competitive social climbers who want to make their casual sex better than anyone else's " Lol, this ^^^^^^ is so true! | |||
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" Here we we go for the haters People say leave her if you play away move away its not fair to partner etc etc. Ive been married twice one son who when we splt i drove 400 miles round trips EVERY wkend for 8 yrs.I now have two more kidsThat I love. wife not interested in sex full stop so what do you do leave? ok i take home £1450 a month from that i would pay rent £400 (cheap in Wales) £550 child care (both work)thats my half rates electric etc.She,s the same It dont leave much and back to seeing kids for wkends more money and kid from 2 homes and all that brings wife is great in most other areas So we stay together and i look.I have met two people from this site one (coffee) another coffee n extas (no veri so dont look LOL)and was told "your wifes mad missing this"so im not crap in bed and its not because i put more effort in as far as im concerned the woman is the one to be given maximum attention and pleasure who ever she is, as a man its easy to cum What a ramble(and crap punctuation lol) "OK As suspected, lots of conflicting comments and judgements to this post to which I won't add. I will instead ask a question ! If your financial situation was stronger, how would your position change (if at all) ? | |||
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"I'm married and I cheat, It could be that I'm a greedy bitch....bleeding him dry... It could be that I married an alcoholic and just don't seem to be able to walk away. Or it could be that love sex. Everyone has differing opinions. " Exactly | |||
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"I cheated on my wife !!! we where married for 20 years and she was the love of my life. I don't know why she stopped wanting sex with me or wanting to make love with me I could never get a straight answer. It went on for quite a few years and the longest we went without sex was about 11 months. I like sex but I didn't want an affair so I joined a swingers site looking for people who wanted sex as well. To cut a very long story down a bit we had a great life apart from the sex we wnet on holiday for the first time with out the kids and 2 days after we got there I found out she was having an affair !!! I was devastated I came home left her there with our friends. she stayed the full 2 weeks we chatted via e mail and it came out that she hadn't loved me for years but didn't know how to tell me and was afraid of the financial side of things. She had known the guy 3 weeks said she loved him and there was no going back. Within 6 months we where divorced after 12 months she was no longer with the guy and I haven't spoken to her since the day of the divorce. I wasn't proud of cheating on my wife and yes I did love her ver very much and everything that could be done to save our realtionship was done but nothing worked, The truth was that she didn't love me and the guy she met was the catalyst to get her out of what she termed an unhappy relationship although at the time I didn't know we where unhappy lol apart from the sex we where a great couple together. Anyway disect this as you will but people cheat for different reasons some just want more sex, some want the thrill of being caught, and some just want to keep their relationship going even without sex with their parner wife/husband and if that means looking elsewhere for sex then so be it. Who are we to judge others actions !!! no one has the moral high ground and we all make mistakes and decisions that change our lives on a daily basis. I am not a believer but the saying along the lines of he who is withlut sin cats the first stone comes to mind. Sorry if this has gone on a bit. "I could understand if my wife was having an affair but I know she isn't. We talk and talk and talk about it but nothing ever improves. Everything else is ok in our relationship. It was agreed that she wouldn't ask any questions if I didn't rub her nose in it and it didn't disrupt family life, which is something i would never do. Am hoping in the future it will improve | |||
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"I don't see why one partner should be forced into a life of celibacy he doesn't want simply because his wife is no longer interested in sex. Why thy body etc.. break that agreement and the contract between you is broken. Obviously, if there is a chance, albeit a slim one, that your sex life with your wife can be restarted then that's the way you should go, but if it's broken down irretrievably then she has no justfication holding you to a promise of exclusivity if she's not honouring her side of the bargain." i agree with this statement but then isn't she deserving the chance to decide to find happiness else where ? | |||
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"see i believe many women withhold sex when unhappy x" So do I but but im no mind reader | |||
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"I don't see why one partner should be forced into a life of celibacy he doesn't want simply because his wife is no longer interested in sex. Why thy body etc.. break that agreement and the contract between you is broken. Obviously, if there is a chance, albeit a slim one, that your sex life with your wife can be restarted then that's the way you should go, but if it's broken down irretrievably then she has no justfication holding you to a promise of exclusivity if she's not honouring her side of the bargain. i agree with this statement but then isn't she deserving the chance to decide to find happiness else where ?" Why is she withholding sex? If she wants to be somewhere else and with someone else then why play the 'no sex for you tonight' game? Why not just leave? | |||
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"what goes through my mind when i read the OP, is why is the wife not wanting sex? woman can loose their sex drive through a lot of things, stress, depression etc.. so maybe the Op should concentrate on working the problem in his marriage rather than concentrate on finding someone to replace that side of a marriage! woman dont tend to be open about how they feel, the man is meant to work it out.. unless she feels the same then the op would be ok for her to go looking elsewhere right? in sickness and in health.. sickness is not always physical!" Pray tell how is the man supposed to work it out !!! She won't talk about things or she say's it's her fault or it's your/my job or it's the kids/or I am depressed !!! You work it out !!! it isn't easy I know I have been there. In my case it all came down to the fact that she loved me but wasn't in love with me her quote !!! If she had had the balls to tell me how she felt in the first place a lot of nastiness could have neen avoided and we would most likely have stayed friends. But instead she chose to have an affair which split up 2 families and caused untold grief to a myriad of people. If you have the secret of unlocking a womans mind then please tell us cause we all need to know lol. | |||
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" If you have the secret of unlocking a womans mind then please tell us cause we all need to know lol. " Can't be done  | |||
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"see i believe many women withhold sex when unhappy x" And that is something taught to them (unknowingly sometimes) by their mothers and peers. It is using sex as a weapon to get something they want, fixed, or sometimes just to get something they want. Women (we are told) are much better communicators than men. Except when it comes to the important things in life it would seem. | |||
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"I'm a married lady and my profile says so. I play with married men and single men. Being married I do understand and agree with what you're saying regarding the finance side. Married men are discreet and understand that free time is limited. Single guys who have had the Barbarella pill can't understand that my free time is precious and I can't meet just because they're horny. I also meet couples and they are fine that I'm married. X " im married to but living in a non sex marriage is hard and frustrating as hell. Glad you don't mind if there attached or not. Have fun | |||
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"I cheated on my wife !!! we where married for 20 years and she was the love of my life. I don't know why she stopped wanting sex with me or wanting to make love with me I could never get a straight answer. It went on for quite a few years and the longest we went without sex was about 11 months. I like sex but I didn't want an affair so I joined a swingers site looking for people who wanted sex as well. To cut a very long story down a bit we had a great life apart from the sex we wnet on holiday for the first time with out the kids and 2 days after we got there I found out she was having an affair !!! I was devastated I came home left her there with our friends. she stayed the full 2 weeks we chatted via e mail and it came out that she hadn't loved me for years but didn't know how to tell me and was afraid of the financial side of things. She had known the guy 3 weeks said she loved him and there was no going back. Within 6 months we where divorced after 12 months she was no longer with the guy and I haven't spoken to her since the day of the divorce. I wasn't proud of cheating on my wife and yes I did love her ver very much and everything that could be done to save our realtionship was done but nothing worked, The truth was that she didn't love me and the guy she met was the catalyst to get her out of what she termed an unhappy relationship although at the time I didn't know we where unhappy lol apart from the sex we where a great couple together. Anyway disect this as you will but people cheat for different reasons some just want more sex, some want the thrill of being caught, and some just want to keep their relationship going even without sex with their parner wife/husband and if that means looking elsewhere for sex then so be it. Who are we to judge others actions !!! no one has the moral high ground and we all make mistakes and decisions that change our lives on a daily basis. I am not a believer but the saying along the lines of he who is withlut sin cats the first stone comes to mind. Sorry if this has gone on a bit. "i must have the. 7 year hitch, were great together but no spark and its me who tries all the time. Thanks for your message above, made me want to reply in this forum | |||
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"see i believe many women withhold sex when unhappy x And that is something taught to them (unknowingly sometimes) by their mothers and peers. It is using sex as a weapon to get something they want, fixed, or sometimes just to get something they want. Women (we are told) are much better communicators than men. Except when it comes to the important things in life it would seem." I think women are not in the mood to have sex with someone who is making them miserable or annoyed. If you have treated me like your maid all day, ignored me, didn't have a kind word, don't share your life with me... surely you can't excpect me to become all affectionate all of a sudden because you have a hard-on... Yes, talking through issues is the only solution but often women feel that their issues either don't get heard or don't get understood (finally not resolved) and then they don't want to have sex... a no brainer really... So, not a weapon, more like a symptom of a bigger malaise. | |||
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" That wouldn't necessarily be a reason for leaving her and ruining the rest of your life (and hers). What pisses me off is that so many married men feel the need to justify their actions and take exception to those who will not accept their justification. Cheating is and always be a selfish option. That sentence I've quoted secreams selfishness. I love the last 2 words, the fact tha wife is added in brackets as an after thought. The fact that the implication is thyat by cheating and not leaving her you are actually doing her a favour when the reality is you are too pathetic too have the balls to man up and walk because you don;t want to ruin your life... This is quite funny. You clearly don't understand how deep love can be. You choose one line and place it out of context. The comment goes on to talk about the many elements of marriage. Quote these too perhaps if you're going dissect. Also, to help you understand why the 'and hers' is in brackets - the original post is from the married mans point of _iew - I'd prefer not to exclude the lady here as she is just as important. - If you have a MercedesBenz and you have a scratch on the door you're not going to buy a new car for the sake of that scratch." You Clearly don't understand how deep love can be !!!! lol as if men (or women) cheat because they are so deeply in love with their partner...give me strength ** No neither do married men cheating tho' that's the problem as they obviously don't love their wives enough to be faithful !!! No Matter WHAT the situation...Sorry but If you are DEEP in love with your wife you would either Love her enough to move on and a find a partner who you are sexually matched too (until you turn that one off too.. sorry couldn't resist) or accept what you have with the love of your life and you wouldn't dream of going behind her back.. No but if you had a Merc with a scratch on the door you would get it fixed... maybe you should see if you can get your wife fixed then is that what you are saying.. repair rather than replace .. maybe thats what needs to be done lol.. If men feel the need to justify it then sorry but there is obviously something in their heads that tells them that its wrong.. The issue is a marriage is a partnership and in that partnership you are supposed to be honest with no secrets... so going behind her back is keeping secrets.. How many when they get home and wife asks how's your day been ? you been busy ? would turn around and whilst chatting saying how the day went also say yeah and had some great sex as well with a swinger, but its not my fault its because I love you and don't want to leave you with a ruined life so better I keep doing... I hope all those men do their own washing, cleaning ironing etc.. or is the wife just the housekeeper now ... However ... how many of those married men (or Women as its both bad) talk openly with the other half about sex ? Down to every detail, desire, fantasy etc I mean every tiny detail !! I bet not many.. and if they did I suspect alot of situations would change too !!! | |||
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"I don't think people are bothered by the concept of people going outside their marriage(It IS a swinging site after all). It's usually the married ones who are doing it behind someone's back that bothers people. Like the ones that try to conceal it." absolutely and another Tuesday night sat home twiddling my thumbs as yet another 'single' guy has cancelled the meet we had. Caught last weeks guy out on one of these cheaters threads | |||
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" If you have the secret of unlocking a womans mind then please tell us cause we all need to know lol. Can't be done " (Perky) | |||
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"Pork and i choose not to meet married Fabber's that go behind their partners backs, purely on the fact that both of us where very hurt when both our ex's had affairs behind our backs.... "For me I was a child (along with a brother) caught in the middle of a cheating mother, not a nice place to be at all  | |||
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"what goes through my mind when i read the OP, is why is the wife not wanting sex? woman can loose their sex drive through a lot of things, stress, depression etc.. so maybe the Op should concentrate on working the problem in his marriage rather than concentrate on finding someone to replace that side of a marriage! woman dont tend to be open about how they feel, the man is meant to work it out.. unless she feels the same then the op would be ok for her to go looking elsewhere right? in sickness and in health.. sickness is not always physical! Pray tell how is the man supposed to work it out !!! She won't talk about things or she say's it's her fault or it's your/my job or it's the kids/or I am depressed !!! You work it out !!! it isn't easy I know I have been there. In my case it all came down to the fact that she loved me but wasn't in love with me her quote !!! If she had had the balls to tell me how she felt in the first place a lot of nastiness could have neen avoided and we would most likely have stayed friends. But instead she chose to have an affair which split up 2 families and caused untold grief to a myriad of people. If you have the secret of unlocking a womans mind then please tell us cause we all need to know lol. "be sincere.. show concern, give her attention, she will tell u in the end. | |||
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"Yes we have affection and are great mates, we have sex aswel just no where near as much as i would want!! Or just want to try other things with other people!" if the relationship isnt giving u all u want.. then why be in it? or appriciate the good things in it and live with a few bad, compromise, the basis of a relationship | |||
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"Pork and i choose not to meet married Fabber's that go behind their partners backs, purely on the fact that both of us where very hurt when both our ex's had affairs behind our backs....
For me I was a child (along with a brother) caught in the middle of a cheating mother, not a nice place to be at all "and of course one of the big things with married guys is the fact their is proberly children involved! | |||
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"Have read all the comments on this thread so thought I would stick in my opinion for what it's worth. The statistics show that a large proportion of both men and women will cheat on their partners, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, it is simply a fact. Whether they choose to do that with a quick fumble at the Xmas party, with a full blown affair, or through sex with like minded people on a swinging site is frankly none of my business. It is also none of my business if people for their own reason choose not to meet married members on this site, that is their choice and is to be respected. But please can we jump off the moral high horse. We are all members of a sex site and everyone's situation and reason for being here is different. So live and let live, don't be so judgemental and all have fun in whatever way you choose to find it." people should respect the cheated on partner and the kids.. after all they are the innocents in this all and u become the pertetrator by allowing the person to cheat! | |||
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"Have read all the comments on this thread so thought I would stick in my opinion for what it's worth. The statistics show that a large proportion of both men and women will cheat on their partners, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, it is simply a fact. Whether they choose to do that with a quick fumble at the Xmas party, with a full blown affair, or through sex with like minded people on a swinging site is frankly none of my business. It is also none of my business if people for their own reason choose not to meet married members on this site, that is their choice and is to be respected. But please can we jump off the moral high horse. We are all members of a sex site and everyone's situation and reason for being here is different. So live and let live, don't be so judgemental and all have fun in whatever way you choose to find it. people should respect the cheated on partner and the kids.. after all they are the innocents in this all and u become the pertetrator by allowing the person to cheat!" I guess we will never agree on this. If a married woman for example wanted to meet me, whether I choose to do that or not, I would not judge her or the reasons why she wants to be on here and find some sexual satisfaction. I know nothing about her, her kids or her situation. All I know is that she has made a conscious decision to be on here and I respect that decision whether I agree with it or not. I have no relationship or emotional responsibility with her kids, husband, milkman or grandmother and am happy with that. | |||
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"It's funny how the single women and some couples on here talk about how cheating is wrong and all that... What can be more immoral than a single woman having sex with random men, or a couple doing the same! Why do people constantly look to put other people down for being themselves and justify their own equally immoral doings... PATHETIC and grossly hypocritical." actually.... total rubbish... see the difference between the two scenario's is the word "CONSENT".... they aren't doing something behind the back of the person again "they profess to love more than any other" I am not buying the "but I had sex with someone else behind your back to keep us together" nonsense..... that was a cold, calculated decision someone had made.... risk vs reward...... is the reward really worth the risk??? my... what a trooper... quick, get them a medal!!! | |||
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"It's funny how the single women and some couples on here talk about how cheating is wrong and all that... What can be more immoral than a single woman having sex with random men, or a couple doing the same! Why do people constantly look to put other people down for being themselves and justify their own equally immoral doings... PATHETIC and grossly hypocritical." I fail to see where u came up with that really...immorality is not the issue, deception IS! I play with everyone regardless of their status, but I wouldnt say heres a pat on the back for cheating on ur partner. If someones not getting it at home, and cant seem to stop having sex with others all they show me is that they have no self control.If ur not happy in a relationship with no sex, then abstain from it or get out, however there is no need to try making other people think ur now worthy of meeting as u have explained ur case upon a forum....maybe when the wife/partner gets a chance to explain things, I'll think about listening.... | |||
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"It's funny how the single women and some couples on here talk about how cheating is wrong and all that... What can be more immoral than a single woman having sex with random men, or a couple doing the same! Why do people constantly look to put other people down for being themselves and justify their own equally immoral doings... PATHETIC and grossly hypocritical." the only pathetic thing is this statement.. cheating is not the issue of morals, but of innocent parties being affected by the selfish actions of one person | |||
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"Have read all the comments on this thread so thought I would stick in my opinion for what it's worth. The statistics show that a large proportion of both men and women will cheat on their partners, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, it is simply a fact. Whether they choose to do that with a quick fumble at the Xmas party, with a full blown affair, or through sex with like minded people on a swinging site is frankly none of my business. It is also none of my business if people for their own reason choose not to meet married members on this site, that is their choice and is to be respected. But please can we jump off the moral high horse. We are all members of a sex site and everyone's situation and reason for being here is different. So live and let live, don't be so judgemental and all have fun in whatever way you choose to find it. people should respect the cheated on partner and the kids.. after all they are the innocents in this all and u become the pertetrator by allowing the person to cheat! I guess we will never agree on this. If a married woman for example wanted to meet me, whether I choose to do that or not, I would not judge her or the reasons why she wants to be on here and find some sexual satisfaction. I know nothing about her, her kids or her situation. All I know is that she has made a conscious decision to be on here and I respect that decision whether I agree with it or not. I have no relationship or emotional responsibility with her kids, husband, milkman or grandmother and am happy with that." its not about judging someones decisions.. its about the innocent parties that will be affected by this persons decision.. if u allow someone to cheat, whether u know the kids, husband etc.. u r a part of what may destroy their lives! if u know someone is about to commit murder, would u hand them the weapon? | |||
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"Have read all the comments on this thread so thought I would stick in my opinion for what it's worth. The statistics show that a large proportion of both men and women will cheat on their partners, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, it is simply a fact. Whether they choose to do that with a quick fumble at the Xmas party, with a full blown affair, or through sex with like minded people on a swinging site is frankly none of my business. It is also none of my business if people for their own reason choose not to meet married members on this site, that is their choice and is to be respected. But please can we jump off the moral high horse. We are all members of a sex site and everyone's situation and reason for being here is different. So live and let live, don't be so judgemental and all have fun in whatever way you choose to find it. people should respect the cheated on partner and the kids.. after all they are the innocents in this all and u become the pertetrator by allowing the person to cheat! I guess we will never agree on this. If a married woman for example wanted to meet me, whether I choose to do that or not, I would not judge her or the reasons why she wants to be on here and find some sexual satisfaction. I know nothing about her, her kids or her situation. All I know is that she has made a conscious decision to be on here and I respect that decision whether I agree with it or not. I have no relationship or emotional responsibility with her kids, husband, milkman or grandmother and am happy with that. its not about judging someones decisions.. its about the innocent parties that will be affected by this persons decision.. if u allow someone to cheat, whether u know the kids, husband etc.. u r a part of what may destroy their lives! if u know someone is about to commit murder, would u hand them the weapon?" Well sex isn't murder so the analogy is somewhat misplaced. And it assumes that people would get hurt, which may not be the case, we just don't know. As I said, no one knows peoples circumstances, and judging them without full knowledge in my _iew is narrow minded. As much as we would like to think it, no one is perfect, we all have issues. If married people aren't your thing (and I haven't said if they are or aren't my thing) then pass them by and walk on, whatever their reasons for being on here do they really need to get a hard time? This isn't the Catholic appreciation site! | |||
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"It's funny how the single women and some couples on here talk about how cheating is wrong and all that... What can be more immoral than a single woman having sex with random men, or a couple doing the same! Why do people constantly look to put other people down for being themselves and justify their own equally immoral doings... PATHETIC and grossly hypocritical. actually.... total rubbish... see the difference between the two scenario's is the word "CONSENT".... they aren't doing something behind the back of the person again "they profess to love more than any other" I am not buying the "but I had sex with someone else behind your back to keep us together" nonsense..... that was a cold, calculated decision someone had made.... risk vs reward...... is the reward really worth the risk??? my... what a trooper... quick, get them a medal!!!" I take it then that you have never deceived anyone?! You really are a joker and a self righteous one at that. | |||
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"Have read all the comments on this thread so thought I would stick in my opinion for what it's worth. The statistics show that a large proportion of both men and women will cheat on their partners, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, it is simply a fact. Whether they choose to do that with a quick fumble at the Xmas party, with a full blown affair, or through sex with like minded people on a swinging site is frankly none of my business. It is also none of my business if people for their own reason choose not to meet married members on this site, that is their choice and is to be respected. But please can we jump off the moral high horse. We are all members of a sex site and everyone's situation and reason for being here is different. So live and let live, don't be so judgemental and all have fun in whatever way you choose to find it. people should respect the cheated on partner and the kids.. after all they are the innocents in this all and u become the pertetrator by allowing the person to cheat! I guess we will never agree on this. If a married woman for example wanted to meet me, whether I choose to do that or not, I would not judge her or the reasons why she wants to be on here and find some sexual satisfaction. I know nothing about her, her kids or her situation. All I know is that she has made a conscious decision to be on here and I respect that decision whether I agree with it or not. I have no relationship or emotional responsibility with her kids, husband, milkman or grandmother and am happy with that. its not about judging someones decisions.. its about the innocent parties that will be affected by this persons decision.. if u allow someone to cheat, whether u know the kids, husband etc.. u r a part of what may destroy their lives! if u know someone is about to commit murder, would u hand them the weapon?" have you ever considered what your friends and family at large would say if they found out what you were doing?! You probably have, but you do it anyway, in secret! When you are truthfully about every single aspect of your life then maybe, just maybe you can judge someone for doing something equally immoral as you. | |||
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"The truth is, I couldn't give a crap what other people get up to in their personal lives, the problem with me lies with morals (not their's, mine). I can not knowingly be an accomplice to a potentially devastating experience on someone else's life. I wouldn't like it done to me, so I will not assist other's who are looking to play behind their partner's back." I couldn't have wrote it better myself.
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"Yes it's a swinger's site, and yes it's about meeting liberal like-minded people, but we've had plenty of abuse hurled at us from married men we won't meet because apparently we're "judging them". The truth is, I couldn't give a crap what other people get up to in their personal lives, the problem with me lies with morals (not their's, mine). I can not knowingly be an accomplice to a potentially devastating experience on someone else's life. I wouldn't like it done to me, so I will not assist other's who are looking to play behind their partner's back. Simplez. Yes I know that most on here lie about their marital status but you can only trust your own judgements, and for all who openly admit to being married and playing without your partner's consent, I personally DO appreciate your honesty. I don't point fingers, I don't pretend that I can tell people how to live their lives and at the end of the day they may not be honest with their partners but at least that honesty with you allows you to make an informed decision on whether you want to meet them or not. If you're not happy, just block and move on. - Amy. x" brilliant post Amy! If course we all have our parameters an principles that guide us on a daily basis, so if you don't do married men then a married man should respect that and not take it personally because its your opinion! It's when people have that holier than thou attitude about things like that yet are deceitful in a lot of other aspects in life that doesn't sit well with me. I have seen families torn apart because children and friends have found out about the swinging sexcapades of this person that they thought they knew so well... Is that not deceit towards people you love an love you back, huh, is it not?!?! | |||
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"Have read all the comments on this thread so thought I would stick in my opinion for what it's worth. The statistics show that a large proportion of both men and women will cheat on their partners, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, it is simply a fact. Whether they choose to do that with a quick fumble at the Xmas party, with a full blown affair, or through sex with like minded people on a swinging site is frankly none of my business. It is also none of my business if people for their own reason choose not to meet married members on this site, that is their choice and is to be respected. But please can we jump off the moral high horse. We are all members of a sex site and everyone's situation and reason for being here is different. So live and let live, don't be so judgemental and all have fun in whatever way you choose to find it. people should respect the cheated on partner and the kids.. after all they are the innocents in this all and u become the pertetrator by allowing the person to cheat! I guess we will never agree on this. If a married woman for example wanted to meet me, whether I choose to do that or not, I would not judge her or the reasons why she wants to be on here and find some sexual satisfaction. I know nothing about her, her kids or her situation. All I know is that she has made a conscious decision to be on here and I respect that decision whether I agree with it or not. I have no relationship or emotional responsibility with her kids, husband, milkman or grandmother and am happy with that. its not about judging someones decisions.. its about the innocent parties that will be affected by this persons decision.. if u allow someone to cheat, whether u know the kids, husband etc.. u r a part of what may destroy their lives! if u know someone is about to commit murder, would u hand them the weapon?have you ever considered what your friends and family at large would say if they found out what you were doing?! You probably have, but you do it anyway, in secret! When you are truthfully about every single aspect of your life then maybe, just maybe you can judge someone for doing something equally immoral as you." 
well we are. Our only restrictions are that we live in a small village and we wouldnt want it around the village school .. our young kids there so might be difficult.. apart from that we dont really care who knows.
However... others in family and village local or shops etc although not bothered if they know. are not involved in our play in which case have no right to know... same as i am sure alot are not honest in telling other family members or kids about how much is in the bank account...
You cannot make a comment like that.. when the wife or husband of a cheating partner is involved whether they want to be or whether they know they are
they are involved and at risk.. however anyone that we involve in our games know about it.. anyone else that knows knows so what do we go tell our parents... no.. do you tell your parents about your sex life i imagine not many would... I imagine not many parents want to know..
Basically anyone who is or likely to be effected by our sex life knows what we do... a cheating partner cannot and is unable to say that..
Each to their own but you cannot compare our swinging life as a happily married couple who only play with both present with a married going behind partners back... thats a ridiculous statement.. we dont keep secrets.. anyone who doesnt know what we do doesnt need to know and us not effected.. if anyone else asks.. yes including parents yes i am happy to tell them... live long way from mine so unless they ask i probably wouldnt mention it over sunday lunch.. but then i did tell my mother that it was fine for dad to be watching porn and that i did with hubby and that there was nothing wrong with it... open enough for you.. she was shocked but she got over it in a matter of noments and sure she got off dads back and let him carry on...
Problem is people dont talk about sex and even here find it ooohh bit funny ti talk about it... we all bloody do it.. just alot of us prefer not to risk hurting other people..
We arent the ones in the wrong..marrieds will still do it till the end of time but you are way of mark trying to compare the two..
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"Have read all the comments on this thread so thought I would stick in my opinion for what it's worth. The statistics show that a large proportion of both men and women will cheat on their partners, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, it is simply a fact. Whether they choose to do that with a quick fumble at the Xmas party, with a full blown affair, or through sex with like minded people on a swinging site is frankly none of my business. It is also none of my business if people for their own reason choose not to meet married members on this site, that is their choice and is to be respected. But please can we jump off the moral high horse. We are all members of a sex site and everyone's situation and reason for being here is different. So live and let live, don't be so judgemental and all have fun in whatever way you choose to find it. people should respect the cheated on partner and the kids.. after all they are the innocents in this all and u become the pertetrator by allowing the person to cheat! I guess we will never agree on this. If a married woman for example wanted to meet me, whether I choose to do that or not, I would not judge her or the reasons why she wants to be on here and find some sexual satisfaction. I know nothing about her, her kids or her situation. All I know is that she has made a conscious decision to be on here and I respect that decision whether I agree with it or not. I have no relationship or emotional responsibility with her kids, husband, milkman or grandmother and am happy with that. its not about judging someones decisions.. its about the innocent parties that will be affected by this persons decision.. if u allow someone to cheat, whether u know the kids, husband etc.. u r a part of what may destroy their lives! if u know someone is about to commit murder, would u hand them the weapon?have you ever considered what your friends and family at large would say if they found out what you were doing?! You probably have, but you do it anyway, in secret! When you are truthfully about every single aspect of your life then maybe, just maybe you can judge someone for doing something equally immoral as you.
well we are. Our only restrictions are that we live in a small village and we wouldnt want it around the village school .. our young kids there so might be difficult.. apart from that we dont really care who knows.
However... others in family and village local or shops etc although not bothered if they know. are not involved in our play in which case have no right to know... same as i am sure alot are not honest in telling other family members or kids about how much is in the bank account...
You cannot make a comment like that.. when the wife or husband of a cheating partner is involved whether they want to be or whether they know they are
they are involved and at risk.. however anyone that we involve in our games know about it.. anyone else that knows knows so what do we go tell our parents... no.. do you tell your parents about your sex life i imagine not many would... I imagine not many parents want to know..
Basically anyone who is or likely to be effected by our sex life knows what we do... a cheating partner cannot and is unable to say that..
Each to their own but you cannot compare our swinging life as a happily married couple who only play with both present with a married going behind partners back... thats a ridiculous statement.. we dont keep secrets.. anyone who doesnt know what we do doesnt need to know and us not effected.. if anyone else asks.. yes including parents yes i am happy to tell them... live long way from mine so unless they ask i probably wouldnt mention it over sunday lunch.. but then i did tell my mother that it was fine for dad to be watching porn and that i did with hubby and that there was nothing wrong with it... open enough for you.. she was shocked but she got over it in a matter of noments and sure she got off dads back and let him carry on...
Problem is people dont talk about sex and even here find it ooohh bit funny ti talk about it... we all bloody do it.. just alot of us prefer not to risk hurting other people..
We arent the ones in the wrong..marrieds will still do it till the end of time but you are way of mark trying to compare the two..
Mrs typing.."Oh I see, you don't wanna hurt certain people by telling them about your swinging is that it?! Well maybe the OP is doing the same... And I doubt you can tell your close friends and all members of your family without them judging you or even cutting you off all together. Bottom line is we all deceive, we all sometimes are immoral, do not be self righteous by judging others and somehow right your own immoral doings with your mind. | |||
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"if you are having sex with another person with your partners full knowledge and even with your partner what is that called !!!! Aren't you in essence still cheating on your partner regardless of whether they know or not !!!! See to my way of thinking that's just what it is cheating but by consent I understand that with this consent it takes away the possible hurt of being found out but I still can't shake the fact that it is cheating. This is just how I see things and not meant to cause issue. No matter what people think this is a sex site where people come together !!! (yes I know pun intended)to have sex with as many different people as possible or so it would seem. This is a site where people come to live out their fantasy, fulfill a dream, rekindle their own marriage / relationship. So lets just let people enjoy what they can and not judge them to harshly I knwo if someone posts on here and asks for an opinion then boy are they gonna get one !!! But like our tastes in sex,women,men, etc, we are all different so lets not jump to much on the moral bandwagon and live and let live. Peace and love people lol "cheating is behind peoples backs without knowledge or consent... Cheating certainly in the context here is just that and its the possible hurt that its going to cause.. its never going to stop .. however between consenting adults no one is at risk of being hurt... We are going behind anyones back.. But hey we are a very secure couple married and besotted for many years.. people who are cheating wont agree thats fine everyone is entitled to their own opinion.. as long as people on here are honest allowing people to make their own minds up... i wish we could meet marrieds some times be much easier.. but i know the pain on partner so couldnt be party to that. Its people comparing what we do with marrieds going behind back of partner..thats what annoys me... | |||
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"I have seen families torn apart because children and friends have found out about the swinging sexcapades of this person that they thought they knew so well... Is that not deceit towards people you love an love you back, huh, is it not?!?!" That's sort of a different case though really, isn't it? These people are not sexually involved and their life does not revolve around our sexual affairs. I'm lucky enough not to have kids, my close friends and family know that we swing but I don't walk around with it printed on my T-Shirt or anything. Would be a pretty odd start to a family do if we wandered in and wen't "Hey guys, we had a bukkake party last night and I got fucked silly!! My vagina feels like I've been raped with a cheese-grater... Oh, and Happy 16th Birthday!!!". It's one of those things where they know but the details are none of their business, just as I don't ask for the gory details when it comes to their sex lives. I know I've wandered a little off topic there but my answer is that they know, so it's up to them to make an informed decision on whether they're ok with it or not (like my previous post), but as also with the last post, I'm not going to dictate my life just because somebody else doesn't like it, just as I don't interfere with or try and change other's lives. When you look at it like that, families could break apart because somebody took up smoking or had a drag on a spliff. Everything is personal but if it's just YOUR life you're ruining then go for it. x | |||
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"if you are having sex with another person with your partners full knowledge and even with your partner what is that called !!!! Aren't you in essence still cheating on your partner regardless of whether they know or not !!!! See to my way of thinking that's just what it is cheating but by consent I understand that with this consent it takes away the possible hurt of being found out but I still can't shake the fact that it is cheating. This is just how I see things and not meant to cause issue. No matter what people think this is a sex site where people come together !!! (yes I know pun intended)to have sex with as many different people as possible or so it would seem. This is a site where people come to live out their fantasy, fulfill a dream, rekindle their own marriage / relationship. So lets just let people enjoy what they can and not judge them to harshly I knwo if someone posts on here and asks for an opinion then boy are they gonna get one !!! But like our tastes in sex,women,men, etc, we are all different so lets not jump to much on the moral bandwagon and live and let live. Peace and love people lol
cheating is behind peoples backs without knowledge or consent...
Cheating certainly in the context here is just that and its the possible hurt that its going to cause.. its never going to stop .. however between consenting adults no one is at risk of being hurt...
We are going behind anyones back..
But hey we are a very secure couple married and besotted for many years.. people who are cheating wont agree thats fine everyone is entitled to their own opinion.. as long as people on here are honest allowing people to make their own minds up... i wish we could meet marrieds some times be much easier.. but i know the pain on partner so couldnt be party to that.
Its people comparing what we do with marrieds going behind back of partner..thats what annoys me...
"but its no different! You are one and the same the cheater and the swinger! Just because between the both of you it is consentual doesn't mean you're not deceitful... Do you tell your kids, family members, friends?! I doubt it. | |||
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"Have read all the comments on this thread so thought I would stick in my opinion for what it's worth. The statistics show that a large proportion of both men and women will cheat on their partners, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, it is simply a fact. Whether they choose to do that with a quick fumble at the Xmas party, with a full blown affair, or through sex with like minded people on a swinging site is frankly none of my business. It is also none of my business if people for their own reason choose not to meet married members on this site, that is their choice and is to be respected. But please can we jump off the moral high horse. We are all members of a sex site and everyone's situation and reason for being here is different. So live and let live, don't be so judgemental and all have fun in whatever way you choose to find it. people should respect the cheated on partner and the kids.. after all they are the innocents in this all and u become the pertetrator by allowing the person to cheat! I guess we will never agree on this. If a married woman for example wanted to meet me, whether I choose to do that or not, I would not judge her or the reasons why she wants to be on here and find some sexual satisfaction. I know nothing about her, her kids or her situation. All I know is that she has made a conscious decision to be on here and I respect that decision whether I agree with it or not. I have no relationship or emotional responsibility with her kids, husband, milkman or grandmother and am happy with that. its not about judging someones decisions.. its about the innocent parties that will be affected by this persons decision.. if u allow someone to cheat, whether u know the kids, husband etc.. u r a part of what may destroy their lives! if u know someone is about to commit murder, would u hand them the weapon?have you ever considered what your friends and family at large would say if they found out what you were doing?! You probably have, but you do it anyway, in secret! When you are truthfully about every single aspect of your life then maybe, just maybe you can judge someone for doing something equally immoral as you.
well we are. Our only restrictions are that we live in a small village and we wouldnt want it around the village school .. our young kids there so might be difficult.. apart from that we dont really care who knows.
However... others in family and village local or shops etc although not bothered if they know. are not involved in our play in which case have no right to know... same as i am sure alot are not honest in telling other family members or kids about how much is in the bank account...
You cannot make a comment like that.. when the wife or husband of a cheating partner is involved whether they want to be or whether they know they are
they are involved and at risk.. however anyone that we involve in our games know about it.. anyone else that knows knows so what do we go tell our parents... no.. do you tell your parents about your sex life i imagine not many would... I imagine not many parents want to know..
Basically anyone who is or likely to be effected by our sex life knows what we do... a cheating partner cannot and is unable to say that..
Each to their own but you cannot compare our swinging life as a happily married couple who only play with both present with a married going behind partners back... thats a ridiculous statement.. we dont keep secrets.. anyone who doesnt know what we do doesnt need to know and us not effected.. if anyone else asks.. yes including parents yes i am happy to tell them... live long way from mine so unless they ask i probably wouldnt mention it over sunday lunch.. but then i did tell my mother that it was fine for dad to be watching porn and that i did with hubby and that there was nothing wrong with it... open enough for you.. she was shocked but she got over it in a matter of noments and sure she got off dads back and let him carry on...
Problem is people dont talk about sex and even here find it ooohh bit funny ti talk about it... we all bloody do it.. just alot of us prefer not to risk hurting other people..
We arent the ones in the wrong..marrieds will still do it till the end of time but you are way of mark trying to compare the two..
Mrs typing..Oh I see, you don't wanna hurt certain people by telling them about your swinging is that it?! Well maybe the OP is doing the same... And I doubt you can tell your close friends and all members of your family without them judging you or even cutting you off all together. Bottom line is we all deceive, we all sometimes are immoral, do not be self righteous by judging others and somehow right your own immoral doings with your mind."No as i said i dont care who knows apart from our young kids currently around the ages of 10 ... bit young at the moment dont you think ? When old enough i aint ashamed of what we are doing and no one will disown me or us for our sex life... how much do you tell parents.. lets face it people who dont swing dont give friends or family update on their sex life everytime they meet do they.. that statement is ridiculous.. do i tell parents everytime i take money out of ny bank .. no.. doesnt effect them does it.. your statements are way off mark and bordering on a bit silly...yes i tell people if it comes up or if they ask.. I dont keep secrets.. | |||
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"Have read all the comments on this thread so thought I would stick in my opinion for what it's worth. The statistics show that a large proportion of both men and women will cheat on their partners, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, it is simply a fact. Whether they choose to do that with a quick fumble at the Xmas party, with a full blown affair, or through sex with like minded people on a swinging site is frankly none of my business. It is also none of my business if people for their own reason choose not to meet married members on this site, that is their choice and is to be respected. But please can we jump off the moral high horse. We are all members of a sex site and everyone's situation and reason for being here is different. So live and let live, don't be so judgemental and all have fun in whatever way you choose to find it. people should respect the cheated on partner and the kids.. after all they are the innocents in this all and u become the pertetrator by allowing the person to cheat! I guess we will never agree on this. If a married woman for example wanted to meet me, whether I choose to do that or not, I would not judge her or the reasons why she wants to be on here and find some sexual satisfaction. I know nothing about her, her kids or her situation. All I know is that she has made a conscious decision to be on here and I respect that decision whether I agree with it or not. I have no relationship or emotional responsibility with her kids, husband, milkman or grandmother and am happy with that. its not about judging someones decisions.. its about the innocent parties that will be affected by this persons decision.. if u allow someone to cheat, whether u know the kids, husband etc.. u r a part of what may destroy their lives! if u know someone is about to commit murder, would u hand them the weapon?have you ever considered what your friends and family at large would say if they found out what you were doing?! You probably have, but you do it anyway, in secret! When you are truthfully about every single aspect of your life then maybe, just maybe you can judge someone for doing something equally immoral as you.
well we are. Our only restrictions are that we live in a small village and we wouldnt want it around the village school .. our young kids there so might be difficult.. apart from that we dont really care who knows.
However... others in family and village local or shops etc although not bothered if they know. are not involved in our play in which case have no right to know... same as i am sure alot are not honest in telling other family members or kids about how much is in the bank account...
You cannot make a comment like that.. when the wife or husband of a cheating partner is involved whether they want to be or whether they know they are
they are involved and at risk.. however anyone that we involve in our games know about it.. anyone else that knows knows so what do we go tell our parents... no.. do you tell your parents about your sex life i imagine not many would... I imagine not many parents want to know..
Basically anyone who is or likely to be effected by our sex life knows what we do... a cheating partner cannot and is unable to say that..
Each to their own but you cannot compare our swinging life as a happily married couple who only play with both present with a married going behind partners back... thats a ridiculous statement.. we dont keep secrets.. anyone who doesnt know what we do doesnt need to know and us not effected.. if anyone else asks.. yes including parents yes i am happy to tell them... live long way from mine so unless they ask i probably wouldnt mention it over sunday lunch.. but then i did tell my mother that it was fine for dad to be watching porn and that i did with hubby and that there was nothing wrong with it... open enough for you.. she was shocked but she got over it in a matter of noments and sure she got off dads back and let him carry on...
Problem is people dont talk about sex and even here find it ooohh bit funny ti talk about it... we all bloody do it.. just alot of us prefer not to risk hurting other people..
We arent the ones in the wrong..marrieds will still do it till the end of time but you are way of mark trying to compare the two..
Mrs typing..Oh I see, you don't wanna hurt certain people by telling them about your swinging is that it?! Well maybe the OP is doing the same... And I doubt you can tell your close friends and all members of your family without them judging you or even cutting you off all together. Bottom line is we all deceive, we all sometimes are immoral, do not be self righteous by judging others and somehow right your own immoral doings with your mind.
No as i said i dont care who knows apart from our young kids currently around the ages of 10 ... bit young at the moment dont you think ? When old enough i aint ashamed of what we are doing and no one will disown me or us for our sex life... how much do you tell parents.. lets face it people who dont swing dont give friends or family update on their sex life everytime they meet do they.. that statement is ridiculous.. do i tell parents everytime i take money out of ny bank .. no.. doesnt effect them does it.. your statements are way off mark and bordering on a bit silly...yes i tell people if it comes up or if they ask.. I dont keep secrets.."silly?! Don't think so luv... You certainly are the exception if you don't care who knows what you do... | |||
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"I take it then that you have never deceived anyone?! You really are a joker and a self righteous one at that. " oh here we go with the tried and trusted.. "well a lie is a lie"... blah blah... bit of a subtle difference between telling someone you have only had one biscuit when you had in fact two..... and again, having sex with someone else behind the back of the person you profess to love more than any other one of those tends to be a biggie and a dealbraker in a lot of relationships.... if you cant see the different and you want to live in your little "all lies are equal" bubble... no one can help you I hope your partner never does it to you....... | |||
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"I dont meet married men... But, what they do is their business and they shouldn't feel the need to explain to anyone.... " You THINK you don't meet married men. You may have filters to reduce the likelihood. But, I bet you have, whether you knew it or not. | |||
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" You THINK you don't meet married men." Very good point there. Lots of men don't wear wedding rings these days , so no ring mark on the finger. | |||
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"Have read all the comments on this thread so thought I would stick in my opinion for what it's worth. The statistics show that a large proportion of both men and women will cheat on their partners, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, it is simply a fact. Whether they choose to do that with a quick fumble at the Xmas party, with a full blown affair, or through sex with like minded people on a swinging site is frankly none of my business. It is also none of my business if people for their own reason choose not to meet married members on this site, that is their choice and is to be respected. But please can we jump off the moral high horse. We are all members of a sex site and everyone's situation and reason for being here is different. So live and let live, don't be so judgemental and all have fun in whatever way you choose to find it. people should respect the cheated on partner and the kids.. after all they are the innocents in this all and u become the pertetrator by allowing the person to cheat! I guess we will never agree on this. If a married woman for example wanted to meet me, whether I choose to do that or not, I would not judge her or the reasons why she wants to be on here and find some sexual satisfaction. I know nothing about her, her kids or her situation. All I know is that she has made a conscious decision to be on here and I respect that decision whether I agree with it or not. I have no relationship or emotional responsibility with her kids, husband, milkman or grandmother and am happy with that. its not about judging someones decisions.. its about the innocent parties that will be affected by this persons decision.. if u allow someone to cheat, whether u know the kids, husband etc.. u r a part of what may destroy their lives! if u know someone is about to commit murder, would u hand them the weapon?have you ever considered what your friends and family at large would say if they found out what you were doing?! You probably have, but you do it anyway, in secret! When you are truthfully about every single aspect of your life then maybe, just maybe you can judge someone for doing something equally immoral as you.
well we are. Our only restrictions are that we live in a small village and we wouldnt want it around the village school .. our young kids there so might be difficult.. apart from that we dont really care who knows.
However... others in family and village local or shops etc although not bothered if they know. are not involved in our play in which case have no right to know... same as i am sure alot are not honest in telling other family members or kids about how much is in the bank account...
You cannot make a comment like that.. when the wife or husband of a cheating partner is involved whether they want to be or whether they know they are
they are involved and at risk.. however anyone that we involve in our games know about it.. anyone else that knows knows so what do we go tell our parents... no.. do you tell your parents about your sex life i imagine not many would... I imagine not many parents want to know..
Basically anyone who is or likely to be effected by our sex life knows what we do... a cheating partner cannot and is unable to say that..
Each to their own but you cannot compare our swinging life as a happily married couple who only play with both present with a married going behind partners back... thats a ridiculous statement.. we dont keep secrets.. anyone who doesnt know what we do doesnt need to know and us not effected.. if anyone else asks.. yes including parents yes i am happy to tell them... live long way from mine so unless they ask i probably wouldnt mention it over sunday lunch.. but then i did tell my mother that it was fine for dad to be watching porn and that i did with hubby and that there was nothing wrong with it... open enough for you.. she was shocked but she got over it in a matter of noments and sure she got off dads back and let him carry on...
Problem is people dont talk about sex and even here find it ooohh bit funny ti talk about it... we all bloody do it.. just alot of us prefer not to risk hurting other people..
We arent the ones in the wrong..marrieds will still do it till the end of time but you are way of mark trying to compare the two..
Mrs typing..Oh I see, you don't wanna hurt certain people by telling them about your swinging is that it?! Well maybe the OP is doing the same... And I doubt you can tell your close friends and all members of your family without them judging you or even cutting you off all together. Bottom line is we all deceive, we all sometimes are immoral, do not be self righteous by judging others and somehow right your own immoral doings with your mind.
No as i said i dont care who knows apart from our young kids currently around the ages of 10 ... bit young at the moment dont you think ? When old enough i aint ashamed of what we are doing and no one will disown me or us for our sex life... how much do you tell parents.. lets face it people who dont swing dont give friends or family update on their sex life everytime they meet do they.. that statement is ridiculous.. do i tell parents everytime i take money out of ny bank .. no.. doesnt effect them does it.. your statements are way off mark and bordering on a bit silly...yes i tell people if it comes up or if they ask.. I dont keep secrets..silly?! Don't think so luv... You certainly are the exception if you don't care who knows what you do... "Nope i dont care who knows we arent doing anything wrong.. as i said only ones we would prefer didnt know are our young kids ie under 11's but then dont think i would want to be discussing our sex lives with them just yet which i would expect to be the case with anyone with kids that age... If people arent happy dont do it.. the only issue we had was not wanting a guy to know too much who lived a few doors down who wanted to play... so he doesnt know who we are.. but guess what.. he was on a single profile and .. yep.. hes married.. have we said anything ... no...some peopleon here are unreal .. | |||
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"Is it the right time yet to mention to the OP...... Told you... "lol | |||
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"I dont meet married men... But, what they do is their business and they shouldn't feel the need to explain to anyone.... You THINK you don't meet married men. You may have filters to reduce the likelihood. But, I bet you have, whether you knew it or not." Well, unless his wife was hiding under his bed and moved all her stuff out before I got there......
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"I've just read the whole thread (zzzz) and it is getting very samey. So here is a different perspective. I have been a mistress on and off since the age of 19 (now almost 50 and still single). I can honestly say I have never met one married man who wants to leave his wife. They truly are only looking for sex because they are getting little/none at home. Take a look at the sites for extra marital affairs. Almost all the profiles say 'not looking to change my circumstances' or words to that effect. My _iew is that women have to realise that to men, sex is a very physical need. Their balls are full, they have to do something about it! I think a lot of wives are very delusional. In my mind I am doing them a favour keeping their husband happy. He gets his release, goes home and plays happy families, no harm done. The problem only comes if they meet a bunny boiler, then they are in trouble. That's my point of _iew and I wont be arguing with anyone. " Well said... | |||
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"I've just read the whole thread (zzzz) and it is getting very samey. So here is a different perspective. I have been a mistress on and off since the age of 19 (now almost 50 and still single). I can honestly say I have never met one married man who wants to leave his wife. They truly are only looking for sex because they are getting little/none at home. Take a look at the sites for extra marital affairs. Almost all the profiles say 'not looking to change my circumstances' or words to that effect. My _iew is that women have to realise that to men, sex is a very physical need. Their balls are full, they have to do something about it! I think a lot of wives are very delusional. In my mind I am doing them a favour keeping their husband happy. He gets his release, goes home and plays happy families, no harm done. The problem only comes if they meet a bunny boiler, then they are in trouble. That's my point of _iew and I wont be arguing with anyone. " Quite right......... Don't like bunny boilers | |||
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"I've just read the whole thread (zzzz) and it is getting very samey. So here is a different perspective. I have been a mistress on and off since the age of 19 (now almost 50 and still single). I can honestly say I have never met one married man who wants to leave his wife. They truly are only looking for sex because they are getting little/none at home. Take a look at the sites for extra marital affairs. Almost all the profiles say 'not looking to change my circumstances' or words to that effect. My _iew is that women have to realise that to men, sex is a very physical need. Their balls are full, they have to do something about it! I think a lot of wives are very delusional. In my mind I am doing them a favour keeping their husband happy. He gets his release, goes home and plays happy families, no harm done. The problem only comes if they meet a bunny boiler, then they are in trouble. That's my point of _iew and I wont be arguing with anyone. " Very good post, but, financial circumstances apart, I know more men that would leave their partners than stay, and am surprised that you have not come across any prepared to leave yet. In general, men DO want/need sex more than women, and women DO use it as a weapon/bargaining tool. This does piss men off, and they look for the sex with less strings, in any form it takes. | |||
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"Grow a set of balls and tell its over or you want to go to relationsip couselling to disscus you problems xx " You grow a set of balls and tell your kids, your parents and friends. | |||
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"Bored of this thread now  "Same, I'm going back to my first post, who wants a cuppa? x | |||
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" Same, I'm going back to my first post, who wants a cuppa? x" Milk no sugar, got any biscuits ? | |||
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"Same, I'm going back to my first post, who wants a cuppa? x Milk no sugar, got any biscuits ? " Got chocolate digestives, rich tea biscuits and custard creams. :- x | |||
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"Grow a set of balls and tell its over or you want to go to relationsip couselling to disscus you problems xx You grow a set of balls and tell your kids, your parents and friends. ." There is a difference with that, one person is cheating behind their OH's back....the other is not telling family members what you do in your sex life. I am finding your comparison not the best. | |||
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"There is a difference with that, one person is cheating behind their OH's back....the other is not telling family members what you do in your sex life. I am finding your comparison not the best." | |||
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"There is a difference with that, one person is cheating behind their OH's back....the other is not telling family members what you do in your sex life. I am finding your comparison not the best. "Interesting you give 5 thumbs up, as I have re-read the post several times, yet don't understand it. | |||
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"There is a difference with that, one person is cheating behind their OH's back....the other is not telling family members what you do in your sex life. I am finding your comparison not the best.
Interesting you give 5 thumbs up, as I have re-read the post several times, yet don't understand it."Rugby is comparing someone who is a swinger and has probably not told their family that they are telling someone to tell their family they are swinging. | |||
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"There is a difference with that, one person is cheating behind their OH's back....the other is not telling family members what you do in your sex life. I am finding your comparison not the best.
Interesting you give 5 thumbs up, as I have re-read the post several times, yet don't understand it.
Rugby is comparing someone who is a swinger and has probably not told their family that they are telling someone to tell their family they are swinging."That makes no sense either | |||
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"There is a difference with that, one person is cheating behind their OH's back....the other is not telling family members what you do in your sex life. I am finding your comparison not the best.
Interesting you give 5 thumbs up, as I have re-read the post several times, yet don't understand it.
Rugby is comparing someone who is a swinger and has probably not told their family that they are telling someone to tell their family they are swinging.
That makes no sense either"Sars said "Grow a set of balls and tell its over or you want to go to relationsip couselling to disscus you problems xx" Rugby was saying (hopefully) that its a bit odd Sars would post this to someone else on a swing site when its unlikely Sars has told their family they swing. So one person (Sars) telling another person (OP) to do something they wouldn't do is strange. | |||
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"I've just read the whole thread (zzzz) and it is getting very samey. So here is a different perspective. I have been a mistress on and off since the age of 19 (now almost 50 and still single). I can honestly say I have never met one married man who wants to leave his wife. They truly are only looking for sex because they are getting little/none at home. Take a look at the sites for extra marital affairs. Almost all the profiles say 'not looking to change my circumstances' or words to that effect. My _iew is that women have to realise that to men, sex is a very physical need. Their balls are full, they have to do something about it! I think a lot of wives are very delusional. In my mind I am doing them a favour keeping their husband happy. He gets his release, goes home and plays happy families, no harm done. The problem only comes if they meet a bunny boiler, then they are in trouble. That's my point of _iew and I wont be arguing with anyone. " here here! | |||
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"There is a difference with that, one person is cheating behind their OH's back....the other is not telling family members what you do in your sex life. I am finding your comparison not the best.
Interesting you give 5 thumbs up, as I have re-read the post several times, yet don't understand it.
Rugby is comparing someone who is a swinger and has probably not told their family that they are telling someone to tell their family they are swinging.
That makes no sense either
Sars said Grow a set of balls and tell its over or you want to go to relationsip couselling to disscus you problems xx
Rugby was saying (hopefully) that its a bit odd Sars would post this to someone else on a swing site when its unlikely Sars has told their family they swing.
So one person (Sars) telling another person (OP) to do something they wouldn't do is strange.
"Hmmmm not really....I think...but then I am confused also now so will repost and see if I can word it better. | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 20/11/12 23:35:02]" Its not a go, Rugby, it just didn't read right | |||
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"Our parents know we swing with others as they swing themselves so dont judge us when you dont know." Yet you judge others. Hmmm..... | |||
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"There is a difference with that, one person is cheating behind their OH's back....the other is not telling family members what you do in your sex life. I am finding your comparison not the best.
Interesting you give 5 thumbs up, as I have re-read the post several times, yet don't understand it.
Rugby is comparing someone who is a swinger and has probably not told their family that they are telling someone to tell their family they are swinging.
That makes no sense either
Sars said Grow a set of balls and tell its over or you want to go to relationsip couselling to disscus you problems xx
Rugby was saying (hopefully) that its a bit odd Sars would post this to someone else on a swing site when its unlikely Sars has told their family they swing.
So one person (Sars) telling another person (OP) to do something they wouldn't do is strange.
Hmmmm not really....I think...but then I am confused also now so will repost and see if I can word it better. "Sometimes what you think in your head, isn't quite what goes down on paper! Same to you Wyrd, you may just read it different to me, but I didn't get it! | |||
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"Grow a set of balls and tell its over or you want to go to relationsip couselling to disscus you problems xx You grow a set of balls and tell your kids, your parents and friends." I was quoting the second comment on this quote. What I was trying to say was....how is cheating on your partner the same as you not telling your family about your sex life. It isn't deception to not discuss your sex life with anyone other than your partner.....cheating on a partner is....so the comparison didn't fit for me. ( As I have said many times on other threads, I don't care what married people get up to...it is their business not mine ) | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 20/11/12 23:35:02] Its not a go, Rugby, it just didn't read right" I didn't take it as a dig, I was just reposting for clarity and that post I took off didn't do it either....hopefully my next one does? | |||
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"There is a difference with that, one person is cheating behind their OH's back....the other is not telling family members what you do in your sex life. I am finding your comparison not the best.
Interesting you give 5 thumbs up, as I have re-read the post several times, yet don't understand it."Basically, scenario 1 is not telling your family members what you get up to in your sex life (I mean, who does?! Why would they WANT to know? I sure as Hell don't want to know what THEY get up to!). And scenario 2 is sleeping with other people behind the back of someone you are sexually and emotionally involved with who trusts you to "forsake all others". Your sex life actually AFFECTS them, especially if you pick up an STI along the way or end up someone you've been sleeping with turning up at your door. She was saying there's a difference between the two, although I think Fabio worded it better. x | |||
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"There is a difference with that, one person is cheating behind their OH's back....the other is not telling family members what you do in your sex life. I am finding your comparison not the best.
Interesting you give 5 thumbs up, as I have re-read the post several times, yet don't understand it.
Basically, scenario 1 is not telling your family members what you get up to in your sex life (I mean, who does?! Why would they WANT to know? I sure as Hell don't want to know what THEY get up to!).
And scenario 2 is sleeping with other people behind the back of someone you are sexually and emotionally involved with who trusts you to "forsake all others". Your sex life actually AFFECTS them, especially if you pick up an STI along the way or end up someone you've been sleeping with turning up at your door.
She was saying there's a difference between the two, although I think Fabio worded it better. x"Understand like that, but in the context of the post it was replying to, seemed a bit vague | |||
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"Understand like that, but in the context of the post it was replying to, seemed a bit vague" Lol, you'd have to waste your life reading all of the previous posts to see what they were getting at, but I was quite glad to see it. XD x | |||
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"I should just get VincentandAmy to write my posts "I charge by the hour. x | |||
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"It wasn't vague at all....Vincent just elaborated what I said and as you have totally ignored my post when I tried to clarify it then it does look like it is becoming a dig. Either way, explained now." No, not ignored, but interpretations can be different. Not sure how its a dig now, but, whatever. | |||
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