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Facefucking?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Just wondered what women enjoy a good facefucking?

Are you submissive too?

I'm talking about the kind where I have you kneeling in front of me, wrists tied behind your back, me grabbing a handful of your hair in one hand, slapping your face with the other, telling you to open that mouth nice n wide, ready for my thick hard cock?

Pushing your head down onto my dick, sliding down all the way into your throat, balls deep and asking you to show me how much of a good little fuck toy you can be for your daddy?

Grabbing your head in both hands and thrusting my dick rythmically down into your throat. Watching your eyes looking up at me, and holding my fat cock down inside you. Making you choke and sputter as I force you down on my throbbing shaft.

Watching streams of tears running down your cheeks, smearing your face with black streaks of mascara, and feeling big ropes of spit hanging down from the corners of your mouth, making my balls soaked, and hanging down onto your big swaying tits.

What a delicious sight you would be looking up at me

Just written from my perspective as I find it much more fun that way lol

X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you got a little bit carried away there mate.

Oh and I don't think many on here are into incest either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Depends if you like vomit and teeth marks on your cock !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think you may be in the wrong forum!

And it's a big NO from me

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By *empnbunkCouple
over a year ago

south coast

This might get interesting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vomit and teeth marks?

Surely you mean bitten off and spat in the corner?

X

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By *layersdelightCouple
over a year ago

Stevenage


"Depends if you like vomit and teeth marks on your cock !!! "
Lol

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By *evilwolfCouple
over a year ago

Leicestershire

Well, your kink is not my kink, however it is a kink all the same and I'm sure someone somewhere will be into it.

To the poster immediately below the OP, 'Daddy' is D/s terminology, not what you thought it was...

Wolf

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well, your kink is not my kink, however it is a kink all the same and I'm sure someone somewhere will be into it.

To the poster immediately below the OP, 'Daddy' is D/s terminology, not what you thought it was...

Wolf

"

Fair enough, though the post might be better off in the Stories forums

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Vomit and teeth marks?

Surely you mean bitten off and spat in the corner?

X"

I was being polite

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By *hole Lotta RosieWoman
over a year ago

Deviant City


"Well, your kink is not my kink, however it is a kink all the same and I'm sure someone somewhere will be into it.

To the poster immediately below the OP, 'Daddy' is D/s terminology, not what you thought it was...

Wolf

"

this is very true about the daddy and girl dynamic Wolf, thanks for explaining before me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just wondered what women enjoy a good facefucking?

Are you submissive too?

I'm talking about the kind where I have you kneeling in front of me, wrists tied behind your back, me grabbing a handful of your hair in one hand, slapping your face with the other, telling you to open that mouth nice n wide, ready for my thick hard cock?

Pushing your head down onto my dick, sliding down all the way into your throat, balls deep and asking you to show me how much of a good little fuck toy you can be for your daddy?

Grabbing your head in both hands and thrusting my dick rythmically down into your throat. Watching your eyes looking up at me, and holding my fat cock down inside you. Making you choke and sputter as I force you down on my throbbing shaft.

Watching streams of tears running down your cheeks, smearing your face with black streaks of mascara, and feeling big ropes of spit hanging down from the corners of your mouth, making my balls soaked, and hanging down onto your big swaying tits.

What a delicious sight you would be looking up at me

Just written from my perspective as I find it much more fun that way lol

X "

I just got turned on reading that, im very sub jeeeez i love that i always end up with mascara runing down my face when its done right !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

P.s to all those saying he is meaning incest hes not meaning that its a term used quite abit mostly in rap songs lol or getting spanked in the land of kink ive heard it loads

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By *evilwolfCouple
over a year ago

Leicestershire


"Well, your kink is not my kink, however it is a kink all the same and I'm sure someone somewhere will be into it.

To the poster immediately below the OP, 'Daddy' is D/s terminology, not what you thought it was...

Wolf

this is very true about the daddy and girl dynamic Wolf, thanks for explaining before me "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was going to comment on the incest comment but see it's already been covered.

The op is something that master and I would do together. However I would not have another guy do it. I do enjoy it but As I am only submissive to one person anyone else trying would quickly be reminded that I have teeth in my mouth.

Not sure why it needs to be in stories though as I would have though this quite common place in power exchange relationships or play times.

Cali

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bit too extreme for me as I would NEVER allow anyone to slap me in the face or force me to that extreme. Having said that I am submissive and for the right guy who I trust to know my limits I will allow some forceful play but to me it's same as allowing someone to tie me up I'm putting trust in them not to push to point of me being sick

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

... ... did you cum?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 11/09/12 17:26:55]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just wondered what women enjoy a good facefucking?

Are you submissive too?

I'm talking about the kind where I have you kneeling in front of me, wrists tied behind your back, me grabbing a handful of your hair in one hand, slapping your face with the other, telling you to open that mouth nice n wide, ready for my thick hard cock?

Pushing your head down onto my dick, sliding down all the way into your throat, balls deep and asking you to show me how much of a good little fuck toy you can be for your daddy?

Grabbing your head in both hands and thrusting my dick rythmically down into your throat. Watching your eyes looking up at me, and holding my fat cock down inside you. Making you choke and sputter as I force you down on my throbbing shaft.

Watching streams of tears running down your cheeks, smearing your face with black streaks of mascara, and feeling big ropes of spit hanging down from the corners of your mouth, making my balls soaked, and hanging down onto your big swaying tits.

What a delicious sight you would be looking up at me

Just written from my perspective as I find it much more fun that way lol

X

I just got turned on reading that, im very sub jeeeez i love that i always end up with mascara runing down my face when its done right !!! "

i think we need some make up lessons on here , there are some lovely waterproof/smudge proof mascaras on sale ,

opps not that i would know !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thats a nO from me too

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By *aceytopWoman
over a year ago

from a town near you

slap my face and you could end up with your cock down your throat

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By *win PeaksCouple
over a year ago

Northamptonshire

It's just wrong

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By *edangel_2013Woman
over a year ago

southend

In the right situation I'd have no problem with the scene. However, mention Daddy, and I'm aware of the D/s context, and I'd be really pissed off!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's just wrong"

It's not wrong, it's just not your thing.

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By *acko9568Man
over a year ago

saltburn


"slap my face and you could end up with your cock down your throat "

Now theres a suggestion, pmsl

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Love all of that scenario apart from the daddy bit! X

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By *opsy RogersWoman
over a year ago

London

I wonder what gastric acid feels like on a knob end?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I wonder what gastric acid feels like on a knob end? "

PMSL

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Feck that not my bag baby! ..how about if I tied you're hands behind you're back and ram my strap on down you're throat? Lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just as T.V used to be blamed for kids behaviour back in the day, it seems that porn films have a bit to answer for as far as some guys ideas are concerned.

If anyone slapped her or forced their cock down Traces throat until she gagged, she'd most likely be passing it the next morning.

XXXX

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have seen a milf from the Wirral called Blondieblow get throat fucked good and proper,how she does it i don't know but if you like it messy and seeing women struggling to take cock and choking and eyes watering she's a real trooper

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Everyone to their own. Long, slow, lick, nibble and sucking all the way for me. Receiving by the way before I get unindated with offers from Bi/gay guys

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By *radleyandRavenCouple
over a year ago

Herts


"Love all of that scenario apart from the daddy bit! x"

Even though I KNOW it's a Dom/sub thing, the whole "Daddy" thing is a massive no from me. Makes my stomach turn.

- Amy. x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think you got a little bit carried away there mate.

Oh and I don't think many on here are into incest either "

Where he says Daddy, it may not necessarily be meant as an incestuous thing as there are D'S relationship where he (the Master) is referred to as Daddy

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By *onnoisseur100Man
over a year ago

Woking-ish


"Everyone to their own. Long, slow, lick, nibble and sucking all the way for me. Receiving by the way before I get unindated with offers from Bi/gay guys "

My sentiments exactly, also I don't think it's big enough to choke anybody lol

?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am only sub to my OH, and yes we enjoy this, but not to the extreme you have mentioned OP, he'd not slap me around the face, he'd get a slap back!

Also not bringing me to tears, no pleasure in that!

I also don't see any perversion in using the word "Daddy", I know a lot of people who do as explained above.

However if one of my meets expected me to call him that, he can jog on, definitely a kink imo which is more intimate.

If any of our meets decided to try this scenario out on me, they'd be the only one crying

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Where he says Daddy, it may not necessarily be meant as an incestuous thing as there are D'S relationship where he (the Master) is referred to as Daddy"

I think in his excitement to share it was a slip of the tongue.. I get so annoyed when people assume the use of daddy means something either to do with children or incestuous.. as in d/s terms it means neither. Best thing is to google Daddy dominant.. and it gives some great explanations out there.

Cali

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By *ityboy2001Man
over a year ago

All NW


"I have seen a milf from the Wirral called Blondieblow get throat fucked good and proper,how she does it i don't know but if you like it messy and seeing women struggling to take cock and choking and eyes watering she's a real trooper "

I've performed with Blondie Blow on live cam and I am in several of her movie clips on the net. If you'd like to experience or chat about sexual domination done properly get in touch *-

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Where he says Daddy, it may not necessarily be meant as an incestuous thing as there are D'S relationship where he (the Master) is referred to as Daddy

I think in his excitement to share it was a slip of the tongue.. I get so annoyed when people assume the use of daddy means something either to do with children or incestuous.. as in d/s terms it means neither. Best thing is to google Daddy dominant.. and it gives some great explanations out there.

Cali "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I've performed with Blondie Blow on live cam and I am in several of her movie clips on the net. If you'd like to experience or chat about sexual domination done properly get in touch *-

"

Not being funny but just because you can do it on cam does not make you sexually dominant.. as sexual dominance is not the act but the mind set of the people playing.

Not that I would allow anyone else to slap me unless Master requested it.. but I love extreme bjs... but when I do it with other guys.. its not them in control its me.. therefore no submission.

But to someone looking in it may seem that they are being very dominant.. but I do have the control..

Its the giving of the control that makes for the submission.. not the act itself.

Cali

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Go on then, can someone explain to me the D's thing about using the term daddy ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Go on then, can someone explain to me the D's thing about using the term daddy ?"

Daddy-Dom is simply the Dominant partner in a D/s relationship. Like a Master or Dom, a Daddy is the top in their relationship and owns or cares for the submissive. Depending on your own personal preferences and relationship dynamic, a Daddy can be many things to his little but there are some generalities that exist in most Daddy/little relationships.

They consider their role much like how a Dom would look at their role over their sub. Though their little may call them Daddy, they are not observed as a father and they don’t look at their little as if they were their child.

There is a big difference between Daddy as a title for a Dominant in a D/s relationship and Daddy as a title for a father. While many have some reservations about this title, it is nothing more than that: a title. Daddies are not interested in pedophilia, incest or any other paraphernalia associated with children even though their title is often associated with that. When a little calls her Daddy by title, the feeling associated is nothing like the feeling she would get when she calls her father the same title. It’s the same with any other multi-use word in our language. For instance, the world love can be used to describe many things. You don’t have the same feelings for when you say you love bubbles as you do when you say you love your spouse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Go on then, can someone explain to me the D's thing about using the term daddy ?"

A daddy dominant is nothing to do with incest.. it is often used when a dominant is more caring towards his sub.. he nutures her.. care for.. but yes does discipline.. Its in many ways similar to a parent/child relationship but only in the way the power is divided.. after all.. parents say do.. you do...etc

A baby girl will be her Masters prized possession and the dynamic of the relationship is often different from a normal m/s one.. Not as in the sub can get away with more.. but it is much more playful.. ( some do behave bratty and that annoys me)

Discipline is very important as other wise the little can get bratty and out of hand.. and tip the balance of power.. so in some ways it can be harsher.. and after all.. no one wants to make Daddy cross.

I struggle to write about this without indulging to much personal info.. so I would suggest you google daddy dominant.. there is a site that comes up about 2nd result down which is fantastic.

Cali

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have done this before on a regular basis with someone , was a lot of fun for her and for me . I know its not everyone's cup of tea though . Yes can be a hard facefucking session followed by rough and forcefull fucking but there is a bit of respect there as well between the parties . In all my time i only ever met two women who are into this . So yeah something i like but only if they into it too .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

hmm... I guess when you are involved in this side of kink you may well say Daddy and not be meaning daddy as 99.99% of the population would do, but I'd say most if not all outside of this life style would possibly think it's just a lame excuse to get away from the view that it is really played out as a incest\paedo scenario.

I understand the difference between saying you love this music track and saying you love your wife or whatever but still that's saying you really like both but one is a stronger, deep down feeling than the other.

The term Master is far easier to understand as one is basically a slave to some extent and the other is the boss\Master.

Thanks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think you got a little bit carried away there mate.

Oh and I don't think many on here are into incest either

Where he says Daddy, it may not necessarily be meant as an incestuous thing as there are D'S relationship where he (the Master) is referred to as Daddy"

Exactly

And to all giving him a bashing grow up it might not be your thing but dont rip the OP to bits for posting in an open forum yous are like a pack of wolfs on the hunt for people that dont share your same tastes they guys not doing any harm live and let live

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"hmm... I guess when you are involved in this side of kink you may well say Daddy and not be meaning daddy as 99.99% of the population would do, but I'd say most if not all outside of this life style would possibly think it's just a lame excuse to get away from the view that it is really played out as a incest\paedo scenario.

I understand the difference between saying you love this music track and saying you love your wife or whatever but still that's saying you really like both but one is a stronger, deep down feeling than the other.

The term Master is far easier to understand as one is basically a slave to some extent and the other is the boss\Master.

Thanks

"

But the two are very different, being a Master and a Daddy are not the same.

And also I bet you money, people that are not even involved in the swinging scene will use this phrase and NOT think of it as pedophilia as it is quite clearly not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 12/09/12 10:25:30]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"[Removed by poster at 12/09/12 10:25:30]"

sassy what you find distastefull others find extremely horny,i stoped watching max hardcore when he got the girls to dress up as schoolgirls as thats not my thing and then i saw he got banged up for making the girls he degraded say they were underage and call him daddy i thought well thats what happens when you start going there.

throatfucking skull fucking facefucking floats many mens boat but i'd hate it done to me

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By *ENDAROOSCouple
over a year ago

South West London / Surrey

It's not a scenario that I would do personally as it would be too extreme for me.

Yet I have no problem watching it in porn films, actually quite like watching it.

Don't agree with some of the other posts that have said it's wrong or distasteful! Just not for you but others will love it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think you got a little bit carried away there mate.

Oh and I don't think many on here are into incest either

Where he says Daddy, it may not necessarily be meant as an incestuous thing as there are D'S relationship where he (the Master) is referred to as Daddy

Exactly

And to all giving him a bashing grow up it might not be your thing but dont rip the OP to bits for posting in an open forum yous are like a pack of wolfs on the hunt for people that dont share your same tastes they guys not doing any harm live and let live "

the only thing I really did wrong was not read the thread first and said what someone else had already said

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

Its a dominant thing for a guy to do...its NOT going to be to every ladies taste......personally i see nothing wrong with it, but its not something i would choose to do with a meet.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Wow!

Stopped by to see if anyone had any thoughts about my post.

Some very strong opinions here. Thank you all for your thoughts.

Just to shed light on a point a lot of people seem fixated upon; when I say Daddy I mean it from a perspective within an established Dom/sub relationship dynamic. It doesn't have anything to do with incest or children.

I was actually quite surprised to see many people taking it that way. I assumed it would be common sense, given the context. But in retrospect, maybe I should have given a thought about people who are not so experienced with D/s play.

Saying that, my original post was written in a light hearted manner, and given the mood I was in whilst writing it, I didn't feel like writing down a glossary of terms.

I was being frivolous, I admit it

AS for the people giving me a play by play reaction to what they would do if I did this to them on a meet, thanks for the information. Albeit unrequested, and out of the blue. I was not suggesting I wanted to meet any of you for this little scenario at all.

I would never consider playing in this manner with anyone I had just met. This would only happen with someone who I know intimately and trust each other implicitly.

But again thank you for your thoughts people.

Yep, Dom/sub play is not for everyone. I can, and do respect that.

I was going to do some other posts asking about people's thoughts on Rape fantasy and Daddy/daughter role play.

I said ROLE PLAY! lol

But I'm not sure if this is such a good idea now. It seems some people on these forums aren't as open minded as they'd like to believe.

As for Dom/sub play in general I think Cali nailed my personal stance on the subject when she said "It's the giving of the control that makes for the submission.. not the act itself." - Cali

Anyway, I've waffled on long enough. So for now I wish you all many wonderful amorous adventures!

X Danny

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Story seems a good meet to me!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wow!

Stopped by to see if anyone had any thoughts about my post.

Some very strong opinions here. Thank you all for your thoughts.

Just to shed light on a point a lot of people seem fixated upon; when I say Daddy I mean it from a perspective within an established Dom/sub relationship dynamic. It doesn't have anything to do with incest or children.

I was actually quite surprised to see many people taking it that way. I assumed it would be common sense, given the context. But in retrospect, maybe I should have given a thought about people who are not so experienced with D/s play.

Saying that, my original post was written in a light hearted manner, and given the mood I was in whilst writing it, I didn't feel like writing down a glossary of terms.

I was being frivolous, I admit it

AS for the people giving me a play by play reaction to what they would do if I did this to them on a meet, thanks for the information. Albeit unrequested, and out of the blue. I was not suggesting I wanted to meet any of you for this little scenario at all.

I would never consider playing in this manner with anyone I had just met. This would only happen with someone who I know intimately and trust each other implicitly.

But again thank you for your thoughts people.

Yep, Dom/sub play is not for everyone. I can, and do respect that.

I was going to do some other posts asking about people's thoughts on Rape fantasy and Daddy/daughter role play.

I said ROLE PLAY! lol

But I'm not sure if this is such a good idea now. It seems some people on these forums aren't as open minded as they'd like to believe.

As for Dom/sub play in general I think Cali nailed my personal stance on the subject when she said "It's the giving of the control that makes for the submission.. not the act itself." - Cali

Anyway, I've waffled on long enough. So for now I wish you all many wonderful amorous adventures!

X Danny "

Nice well put x

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By *onnoisseur100Man
over a year ago

Woking-ish


"[Removed by poster at 12/09/12 10:25:30]

sassy what you find distastefull others find extremely horny,i stoped watching max hardcore when he got the girls to dress up as schoolgirls as thats not my thing and then i saw he got banged up for making the girls he degraded say they were underage and call him daddy i thought well thats what happens when you start going there.

throatfucking skull fucking facefucking floats many mens boat but i'd hate it done to me "

Not that many, I'd have thought only a minority would go for something (I'd call) this extreme. But as long as both participants are ok with it then who am I to say anything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well I would love all of that scenario

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wow!

Stopped by to see if anyone had any thoughts about my post.

Some very strong opinions here. Thank you all for your thoughts.

Just to shed light on a point a lot of people seem fixated upon; when I say Daddy I mean it from a perspective within an established Dom/sub relationship dynamic. It doesn't have anything to do with incest or children.

I was actually quite surprised to see many people taking it that way. I assumed it would be common sense, given the context. But in retrospect, maybe I should have given a thought about people who are not so experienced with D/s play.

Saying that, my original post was written in a light hearted manner, and given the mood I was in whilst writing it, I didn't feel like writing down a glossary of terms.

I was being frivolous, I admit it

AS for the people giving me a play by play reaction to what they would do if I did this to them on a meet, thanks for the information. Albeit unrequested, and out of the blue. I was not suggesting I wanted to meet any of you for this little scenario at all.

I would never consider playing in this manner with anyone I had just met. This would only happen with someone who I know intimately and trust each other implicitly.

But again thank you for your thoughts people.

Yep, Dom/sub play is not for everyone. I can, and do respect that.

I was going to do some other posts asking about people's thoughts on Rape fantasy and Daddy/daughter role play.

I said ROLE PLAY! lol

But I'm not sure if this is such a good idea now. It seems some people on these forums aren't as open minded as they'd like to believe.

As for Dom/sub play in general I think Cali nailed my personal stance on the subject when she said "It's the giving of the control that makes for the submission.. not the act itself." - Cali

Anyway, I've waffled on long enough. So for now I wish you all many wonderful amorous adventures!

X Danny "

This sums it all up rather nicely from the OP.

I don't for one minute think anyone really misunderstood the 'Daddy' comment, it was all a bit dramatic wasn't it.

The scenario created is not my kink at all and I would never allow play in this way, because I'm not interested in submissive play like this. However it certainly is an extremely erotic and sexy scenario for those into this. I hope the OP has a meet where they can experience this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I have seen a milf from the Wirral called Blondieblow get throat fucked good and proper,how she does it i don't know but if you like it messy and seeing women struggling to take cock and choking and eyes watering she's a real trooper

I've performed with Blondie Blow on live cam and I am in several of her movie clips on the net. If you'd like to experience or chat about sexual domination done properly get in touch *-

"

ive seen him do it too others too as been present and blondieblow does do it expertly!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I too am very sub and love this sooo much also got turned on when I read it!! I agree, mascara every where when done right

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

I'm surprised at the negative comments there too. If it's your thing it's your thing, and not for others to judge.

I love those D/S face fucking scenarios now, and it was C (my partner) who taught me to enjoy them, because she loves being treated like that.

On the other hand, I used to see a woman who loved to be slapped during blow jobs etc, but it used to make me feel quite uncomfortable. So your tastes change I suppose, because if I was with her now I'd certainly be more open to that type of play.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

lol yeh he did get a bit carried away there

thats like the extreme end of blowjobs. not really my bag but like the idea of being deepthroated teehee

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i do love being facefucked hard and rough but not slapped! And whilst I know Daddy is not a reference to incest or paedophilia if someone was to refer to themselves as Daddy on a meet i would be pmsl :S xx

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By *exki11enWoman
over a year ago

Bristol

And once again i'm reminded just how closed minded such a group of supposed open minded people can be.

This scenario would turn me on very much DEPENDING on the person involved. I would have to trust them 100% and have built a relationship with them for it to work, but yes, it would work for me.

Each to their own eh people?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It seems lots are divided on this but I must say I love being face fucked, we have a set of hogties especially so he can just fuck my throat as hard as he wants, he slaps my face with his cock, and calls me all sorts of degrading names.

It is just another way I like to be treated like a slut by him!

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By *icesweetgirlWoman
over a year ago

Manchester

I'm submissive and I love being face fucked and slapped about. So turns me on.

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

In the words of Duncan Bannatyne, "I'm out".

Not that I'd judge anyone who is into this type of scenario... as long as it's consensual then it's not a problem, but it's not my kink.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm always slightly amused at people on a swinging forum who take a moral high ground stance

What's described isn't uncommon and some women love it and others don't. A bit like threesomes, dp, swinging clubs, dogging etc.

as has been mentioned the daddy thing isn't a reference to an actual daddy it's a submission thing and again it works for some and not others.

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