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Maybe time to check your downloads

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate

This story was posted in the lounge but obviously 'fanny farting' is a much more popular topic there.

I can't post links here but if you had always assumed that the porn you may have viewed is legal because it shows a perfectly legal acts between two consenting adults, then think again.

The CPS is currently trying a man who had images emailed to him showing fisting. The police found no porn on his home or work PC and essentially the pics he had on his hotmail account are all the prosecution needed to bring a case before the court.

If you Google 'HeresyDungeon' the first link contains a blog all about the case.

If you Google 'CPS Extreme Pornography' you'll find the first link gives the CPS guidelines about the law (which nobody knows about)

And if you Google 'Epetition 5817' you can find a petition to have this law repealed.

Please do not confuse this law with laws regarding indecent images of children which are clearly in place with good reason. This is law that was rushed through parliament in 2009, and now threatens the freedom of anyone who has seen porn on the internet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Holy shit best destroy my hard drive

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

This has been the same for about 6 years now or whenever it was the new porn laws came in. You can be prosecuted for having "extreme" porn just on your computer, emailed or anything. But the twist is noone actually knows whats classed as "extreme" porn. One judge may decide that fisting is another may not

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bloody hell, can you imagine how the courts in this country would be bogged down if everyone who watched web porn was raked in?

Surely the CPS has enough to sort out without making more work for themselves.

Mind you,a local PCSO here recently got sacked, taken to court,put in the paper and lost his job because he'd been watching animal porn.

The thing was though,none of the guys who I work with,including myself, realised it was illegal and most had seen some form of it themselves.

So it seems Big Brother is indeed watching. R

XX

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By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago

more north lincs than mids!

and that is why fisting or any extreme pornographic pics are not allowed on this site

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire


"and that is why fisting or any extreme pornographic pics are not allowed on this site "

When ive tried to tell people on here they have taken no notice

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate


"This has been the same for about 6 years now or whenever it was the new porn laws came in. You can be prosecuted for having "extreme" porn just on your computer, emailed or anything. But the twist is noone actually knows whats classed as "extreme" porn. One judge may decide that fisting is another may not"

Actually the law was brought in in 2009 in a response to a crime having been committed by someone who had 'Extreme Pornography' on their hard drive.

However, the current trial at Kingston Crown court to which I made reference in the original post, is the first of its kind to involves a picture of male anal fisting, but he did not have any such image on his computer.

Other images such as watersports are not considered to be 'Extreme' pornography by the CPS.

The decision on whether the image is extreme is NOT made by a judge, it is defined (very loosely) in the law and is explained in the CPS guidelines. In this case, it has to be proven that fisting will cause injury to the anus. They have therefore had medical experts talking about how safe fisting is.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

they must have updated the law as the one i know about was made about six years ago

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

[Removed by poster at 06/08/12 21:02:38]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The same guidelines set out a defense too quoted

" The defence set out in section 66 of the Act applies where the possessor of an extreme pornographic image proves firstly that he was a participant in the act depicted, and secondly that no harm - other than harm that can be and was lawfully consented to - occurred to any of the participants. This defence does not apply in respect of bestiality images or necrophilia images which involve a real corpse."

So you can have stuff that involves you and its legal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At the end of the day its up to the courts to prove it was u that sent it recived it watched it ...

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate


"The same guidelines set out a defense too quoted

" The defence set out in section 66 of the Act applies where the possessor of an extreme pornographic image proves firstly that he was a participant in the act depicted, and secondly that no harm - other than harm that can be and was lawfully consented to - occurred to any of the participants. This defence does not apply in respect of bestiality images or necrophilia images which involve a real corpse."

So you can have stuff that involves you and its legal "

Exactly, so you can do it, take photos of it, but if another person sees the pics, they are breaking the law.

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate


"At the end of the day its up to the courts to prove it was u that sent it recived it watched it ..."

No, they just have to prove that you watched it. Sending it isn't a crime. Just viewing it. So if on forensic examination, it's on your computer and your opened the file, then you viewed it. The evidence is all sitting in your computers file system.

Slightly different in the case at Kingston Crown Court, as there is no evidence to prove the attachment was opened, although they can prove the email was viewed, so up to the jury on whether they believe the guy.

At the end of the day though, there should be no case to answer anyway. If they want to make 'extreme porn' illegal, then it needs to be more clearly defined, as at the moment, the police and CPS are acting as moral guardians, when they have no right to.

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate


"they must have updated the law as the one i know about was made about six years ago"

You must be thinking of a different law as quote

"The offence of possession of extreme pornographic images in Part 5, Sections 63 to 67 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 (the Act) came into force on 26 January 2009 and is not retrospective. " [From CPS website]

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By *atasha_DavidCouple
over a year ago

Slough


".... Sending it isn't a crime. "

Oh yes it is.

A recent law lords ruling has declared that an IM conversation constitutes publishing and is therefore covered by the Obscene Publications Act

For a description of this google the blog of Obscenity Lawyer or there is an article by Jane Fae on The Register

Therefore sending somebody a picture would definitely be covered by the OPA

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So if someone did something in the chat room would 80,000 of us have to turn up in court just in case we had watched it

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate


".... Sending it isn't a crime.

Oh yes it is.

A recent law lords ruling has declared that an IM conversation constitutes publishing and is therefore covered by the Obscene Publications Act

For a description of this google the blog of Obscenity Lawyer or there is an article by Jane Fae on The Register

Therefore sending somebody a picture would definitely be covered by the OPA

"

Apologies, different act. And yes, that's equally bloody scarey.

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate


"So if someone did something in the chat room would 80,000 of us have to turn up in court just in case we had watched it "

If the CPS had their idiotic way, yes.

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By *andG4moreCouple
over a year ago

Dunbartonshire

Ok 3 questions here.

Is this law the same in scotland??

What happens if you downloaded the content of extreme porn prior to 2009 i think was the dat given by op?

Last you have a hard drive with extreme porn per say not animal or any like that but still pretty kinky what can you do??

Plus how the heck do you get caught with it??

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By *ce WingerMan
over a year ago

P.O. Box DE1 0NQ

Thank God I never downloaded that Snoop Dog track

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

one day we will all work for google.

the nightmare is approaching and its scary.

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By *helmercpleCouple
over a year ago

Chelmsford

But surely the acts that you are all talking about on here are extreme i.e. beastiality, anal fisting, necrophilia and should be regulated against.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok 3 questions here.

Is this law the same in scotland??

What happens if you downloaded the content of extreme porn prior to 2009 i think was the dat given by op?

Last you have a hard drive with extreme porn per say not animal or any like that but still pretty kinky what can you do??

Plus how the heck do you get caught with it??"

1: Its UK wide, Scotland does have some laws of its own but these are only minor differences.

2: from 2009 it would be illegal to have it, so you could still be nicked.

3:if for some reason your pc went in for repair say, the shop would have to report the porn ( we all have a legal duty to report a crime in common law and can be nicked for not reporting it )you could also send a picture to someone, who then complains or they send their pc for repair. a number of ways to get caught.

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By *kmale421Man
over a year ago

wirral


"Ok 3 questions here.

Is this law the same in scotland??

What happens if you downloaded the content of extreme porn prior to 2009 i think was the dat given by op?

Last you have a hard drive with extreme porn per say not animal or any like that but still pretty kinky what can you do??

Plus how the heck do you get caught with it??

1: Its UK wide, Scotland does have some laws of its own but these are only minor differences.

2: from 2009 it would be illegal to have it, so you could still be nicked.

3:if for some reason your pc went in for repair say, the shop would have to report the porn ( we all have a legal duty to report a crime in common law and can be nicked for not reporting it )you could also send a picture to someone, who then complains or they send their pc for repair. a number of ways to get caught."

Just to clarify point 3 so people aren't scared stiff. I run a computer repair facility. It is not the job of our engineers to check a computer for illegal content, and a computer may come in for repair that has illegal stuff on it that we would never know about. However, if during the course of our repair work we came across documents or images that were illegal, the Gary Glitter case at PC World is the most obvious example) then it is our lawful duty to report it and if we didn't then we would be breaking the law. For most repairs though, we'd never see any images or documents on a computer, though perhaps if a fit girl walked in wearing a badge saying I'm a member of FAB, that might convince me to authorise a picture search......

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By *andG4moreCouple
over a year ago

Dunbartonshire

Ok.

So how about this then.

What if you dont download and only view the videos etc that are available on the many free daily thumb nail sites.?

On there you can see lots of pretty extreme anal play etc along with all the regular porn styles. I have watched a vid or two with fem fem anal fisting before but never downloaded it. watched it on a vid stream kinda thing

know I am slightly concerned know. thought all that stuff was perfectly legal.

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By *rumCoupleCouple
over a year ago

birmingham

Re:Extreme Porn Law

It can also be an offence to possess an excerpt from a BBFC classified film, if deemed obscene - and you can't mention in your defence it's from a film.

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By *ricky_DickyMan
over a year ago

Mirfield


"Ok.

So how about this then.

What if you dont download and only view the videos etc that are available on the many free daily thumb nail sites.?

On there you can see lots of pretty extreme anal play etc along with all the regular porn styles. I have watched a vid or two with fem fem anal fisting before but never downloaded it. watched it on a vid stream kinda thing

know I am slightly concerned know. thought all that stuff was perfectly legal.

"

I don't know about streaming live video but if you watch videos from the web they are actually downloaded onto your computer, if you don't choose to save them they go into a temporary storage area so the media player can process the file to play the video. Depending on the configuration of your web browser these temporary files could be around for a while before being deleted.

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate


"Ok 3 questions here.

Is this law the same in scotland??

"

As far as I understand, for the time being, yes.


"

What happens if you downloaded the content of extreme porn prior to 2009 i think was the dat given by op?

"

Interesting point. With most laws, if you have committed a crime prior to it becoming law, you cannot be found guilty. Of course, the problem is when you viewed the porn and not when you received it. In the current case, it could not even be proven IF the porn had been viewed, although the email was received after 2009


"

Last you have a hard drive with extreme porn per say not animal or any like that but still pretty kinky what can you do??

Plus how the heck do you get caught with it??"

Personally i'd recommend a free bit of software called BleachBit. It can be used for deleting individual files 'securely' (i.e. they are over written before they are deleted) and it can also be used for cleaning other files from your hard drive like thumbnails. I'm sure some people will go on to explain that if a file isn't over written 35 times, it is not properly over written, but for a forensic examination to extract data which has been overwritten just once would take absolutely years (you are basically using electron microscopy to examine hard disks, rather than just reading data).

It is not clear why Walsh was arrested.

If the police had suspicion an offence had been committed, this would usually be enough to obtain a court warrant to search your home (not sure how this works with Scottish courts).

Suspicion could be an accusation by someone else, or because you were found to have been in communication with someone else charged with an offence.

They don't need much of a reason but common sense dictates they won't be knocking on everybody's door.

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate


"But surely the acts that you are all talking about on here are extreme i.e. beastiality, anal fisting, necrophilia and should be regulated against. "

Well, this is all a matter of opinion.

But whereas bestiality and necrophilia are themselves illegal sexual acts, fisting is not. I'm sure you'll find a large number of women who enjoy fisting.

Seems odd that it can be illegal to do something, but not to look at a picture of it.

The question being raised in the ongoing trial is, is fisting dangerous. If the jury say yes, then images of fisting (at least in this case anal fisting) become illegal, if, not, they're fine.

The current case is very much a test case.

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate


"

Just to clarify point 3 so people aren't scared stiff. I run a computer repair facility. It is not the job of our engineers to check a computer for illegal content, and a computer may come in for repair that has illegal stuff on it that we would never know about. However, if during the course of our repair work we came across documents or images that were illegal, the Gary Glitter case at PC World is the most obvious example) then it is our lawful duty to report it and if we didn't then we would be breaking the law. For most repairs though, we'd never see any images or documents on a computer, though perhaps if a fit girl walked in wearing a badge saying I'm a member of FAB, that might convince me to authorise a picture search......"

As someone else who works as an IT technician, it means I will be a lot more careful not to find any porn at all, since i'd say every other teenagers laptop has something which may be found to be illegal (obviously, if it's something 'serious' I would always have let the police know).

You regularly see images of movies involving fisting though!

What will then happen, is nobody will ever bring their PCs in for repair and I'll go broke

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate


"Ok.

So how about this then.

What if you dont download and only view the videos etc that are available on the many free daily thumb nail sites.?

On there you can see lots of pretty extreme anal play etc along with all the regular porn styles. I have watched a vid or two with fem fem anal fisting before but never downloaded it. watched it on a vid stream kinda thing

know I am slightly concerned know. thought all that stuff was perfectly legal.

"

Often, streamed videos are cached before being played (when you watch the little dots go round), so a copy of the movie may exist on your hard drive.

I think everybody THOUGHT that the stuff on these sites was legal, but apparently now they CPS has decided it's not!

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate


"Re:Extreme Porn Law

It can also be an offence to possess an excerpt from a BBFC classified film, if deemed obscene - and you can't mention in your defence it's from a film."

Looking at the CPS guidelines, one possible defence to Possession of Obscene Pornography (a different offence) is if the material is considered as art, which if it has passed a BBFC cert, it can be.

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate

Written quite a bit tonight for which I apologise. Please be aware, I know a lot more about computers than I do about the law, and this is all just information I am picking up from the CPS website so my interpretation may be incorrect.

The Extreme Pornography Law is less punishable than the Obscene Publications Law, and that is in turn less punishable than the Laws regarding The Protection of Children.

The former is currently being tested at Kingston Crown court, and if the jury find Mr Walsh not guilty, there is a good chance that the law will have to be amended to make it slightly clearer.

If you are worried about any of what you have read, i'd highly recommend both Bleachbit or CCleaner, both of which can be downloaded for free and are useful tools for cleaning temporary files from your computer.

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate


"Re:Extreme Porn Law

It can also be an offence to possess an excerpt from a BBFC classified film, if deemed obscene - and you can't mention in your defence it's from a film.

Looking at the CPS guidelines, one possible defence to Possession of Obscene Pornography (a different offence) is if the material is considered as art, which if it has passed a BBFC cert, it can be."

Sorry, just re-read and saw the word excerpt. True, if the film is not in it's entirely and just an excerpt, various pornography laws (including child porn laws) can be used.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

some people could anything extreme...

Wish there was a list of sorts.

involving animals, the dead, children is correct as they can't give consent...

a lot of ordinary people could think many things are extreme via this site; watersport, dp, moresums, to mentions few.

I think the cornerstone should be consentual. any cases would revolve around consent. of course viewing any picture or clip off the net, how could you prove consent...

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate

Pleased to say Simon Walsh has just been found unanimously NOT GUILTY on all counts.

Time for the CPS to answer some questions as to why they tried to prosecute, why they claim that people who use sexual health clinics engage in high risk behaviour, and hopefully, the farcical extreme porn law will be looked at a little more closely now!

For those that didn't, please follow the instructions on what to google in my original post to get the full story.

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By *heWolfMan
over a year ago

warwickshire


"It is not clear why Walsh was arrested.

They don't need much of a reason but common sense dictates they won't be knocking on everybody's door."

I suppose anyone who is an aide to a high profile politician, and who has helped prosecute bent coppers ought to watch their step though

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By *ilthythanet OP   Couple
over a year ago

ramsgate

Yeah good point.

I'm kind of inclined to think that if you hold public office, then there are certain parties which you should avoid.

Clearly someone really had it in for him.

Mr Walsh will be on Newsnight tonight on BBC2 at 22:40 which might be quite interesting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is was an act pushed thru parliament a (statute)an act of parliment total waste tbh

An act of parliment has to be consented to ie: the queen and you believe it or not its not law is an act created aunder statute,law is law of the land ie: common law is law they are completely different,abit like you having two identity's that's what people use to defend a charge and case closed in many cases so the cps will struggle to defend case that's why people get away with perverted crime,they have to take privacy laws ECT Into Account ie data protection act 1998 another statute (act) but ask the accused to sign consent to the charge ! No way would he cos he's consented to an act accused ,under statute but bare in mind ad well he's two identity's thiers the corporate individual under birth cert and thiers him as a living sole without that birth cert ,hence some many sick people get away with crimes alike common law protects them statute is not law crazy I know www.lawfulrebellion.org hope it helps u understand peeps

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Holy thread resurrection!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Holy thread resurrection! "

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich


"Is was an act pushed thru parliament a (statute)an act of parliment total waste tbh

An act of parliment has to be consented to ie: the queen and you believe it or not its not law is an act created aunder statute,law is law of the land ie: common law is law they are completely different,abit like you having two identity's that's what people use to defend a charge and case closed in many cases so the cps will struggle to defend case that's why people get away with perverted crime,they have to take privacy laws ECT Into Account ie data protection act 1998 another statute (act) but ask the accused to sign consent to the charge ! No way would he cos he's consented to an act accused ,under statute but bare in mind ad well he's two identity's thiers the corporate individual under birth cert and thiers him as a living sole without that birth cert ,hence some many sick people get away with crimes alike common law protects them statute is not law crazy I know www.lawfulrebellion.org hope it helps u understand peeps "

Can anyone translate this into English?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Is was an act pushed thru parliament a (statute)an act of parliment total waste tbh

An act of parliment has to be consented to ie: the queen and you believe it or not its not law is an act created aunder statute,law is law of the land ie: common law is law they are completely different,abit like you having two identity's that's what people use to defend a charge and case closed in many cases so the cps will struggle to defend case that's why people get away with perverted crime,they have to take privacy laws ECT Into Account ie data protection act 1998 another statute (act) but ask the accused to sign consent to the charge ! No way would he cos he's consented to an act accused ,under statute but bare in mind ad well he's two identity's thiers the corporate individual under birth cert and thiers him as a living sole without that birth cert ,hence some many sick people get away with crimes alike common law protects them statute is not law crazy I know www.lawfulrebellion.org hope it helps u understand peeps

Can anyone translate this into English?"

He's saying legislation isn't law and that can be used to wriggle out of charges.

It's rubbish, as an awful lot of people currently locked up will be able to confirm.

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By *yphoon1Man
over a year ago

Judging by the discussions on this thread, they might as well close Twitter down given the pretty full on images that people have on there (or so im told )

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"and that is why fisting or any extreme pornographic pics are not allowed on this site "

There are some posted today actually!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good advice be warned

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By *cottishrichMan
over a year ago

Here and there


"and that is why fisting or any extreme pornographic pics are not allowed on this site

There are some posted today actually!!!!

"

Report them. Admin always say to report any fisting pics you come across and they'll take them down. It appears some of the pic mods didn't get the memo.

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