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A Unicorn’s Guide To Finding A Unicorn : PART 2

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Following on from my previous thread, I've added some extra info into my original list!

As a unicorn, I want to put across how difficult it is for US to find a couple to play with. I’ve been swinging for over a decade, five years as a swinger. Lots of this is tongue-in-cheek and based on my own experiences, but hope you all get the meaning Yes, not all couples are the same, but most of you will appreciate this guide and can do with the help (again, just being funny here).

WHAT IS A UNICORN?

A ‘Unicorn’ is a single woman who is part of the swinging community. Most of us are bi-sexual which makes us even rarer.

We are called Unicorns because we are rare like unicorns I didn’t think up the name, I don’t condone labelling people and this is not my personal choice to be called the same as a fictional creature. I don’t even like labelling myself as ‘bi-sexual’ but unfortunately, it is what it is. Society loves it’s labels and there are worse things I’ve been called, so I’ll take being a ‘Unicorn’ lol. For the purposes of this guide, Fab and swinging in general, this is the definition of a Unicorn. Please feel free to take it up with the Powers That Be if you don’t like it! If you REALLY don't think the term, then substitute 'single woman who might be bi and who likes swinging' for Unicorn

1. The first and best piece of advice to find a fabled Unicorn is to get yourself to swinging clubs and events. These are excellent places where we hang out and we often do the ‘hunting’ ourselves here. Feedback from my first post made this the first choice of places where you can meet a Unicorn in the ‘wild’. It’s safe for us and we get to chat to lots of different people. We also often go there knowing we can shag pretty much anyone, so you might be lucky there - see my extra info below. There are socials run all over the country via Fab and these are brilliant to get out there without having the pressure to play. I try to get to all my local ones in Bristol and love meeting couples here. Have your Fab profile name written down or get the Unicorn’s Fab name then and there are send them a message asap to remind them who you are. I’ve met loads of amazing people at socials who I can’t verify the next day because I can’t remember their Fab names after a few gins (and Fab names are weird).

2. Yes, we want to see both of you at the same time in the same place at least once - a video chat will do but most likely a face-to-face/social BEFORE we arrange a meet. If you can’t/won’t do this then we’ll assume you’re fake and won’t take it any further. Make sure you have photos of both of you on your profile and be prepared to send at least one photo of both of your faces pretty early on in your chat with the Unicorn. Also, make sure you’re photo verified on Fab - this is the basic filter and one I always have on so without this you won’t get very far.

3. You might need to get your hands in your pocket. Yes, this might mean getting a babysitter, travelling, getting a hotel, going to a club etc. We’re in demand and meeting you on our own so you can’t act like entitled snowflakes. You are the ones looking for US and not the other way around. There are thousands of you and hundreds of us - please see my other point on this subject at the end of this guide.

4. There has to be sexual attraction to both of you. This is totally subjective and down to our own preferences so you might be turned down/ignored/ghosted if we don’t like the look of one or either of you. It’s not personal, just down to taste and we can afford to be picky

5. We will want to play with both of you and we are not a toy. We will assume we can kiss and have penetrative sex with both of you (as it were). If you put rules down, then it’s unlikely we’ll take it any further - there are plenty of couples who won’t put rules in place and we are not a plaything. Having said that, feel free to discuss boundaries, limits and your sexual preferences. These should be the same for everyone is what I’m trying to say.

6. As a single female, we are travelling/meeting you on our own. Please put yourselves in our shoes and understand how difficult this is at times and could be potentially unsafe for us. We don’t know you, we could be meeting you somewhere we don’t know and could be putting ourselves in danger. Be flexible and understanding.

7. You might need to answer some pretty personal questions and analysis of your relationship. We do not want to be stuck in the middle of a drama or a domestic and will look to make sure we are happy that you are in a strong position before we meet you. I’ve put some questions below that you can consider to help.

8. We have lives, kids, work, family, friends and other commitments outside of our sex lives and are often single mums. We can’t drop everything and rush to meet you so we need to plan in advance and our schedules can be limited. Conversely, sometimes we find ourselves with a few hours spare and might be able to meet you at the drop of a hat! Again, understanding and patience is appreciated here. We don’t expect you to drop everything but we don’t expect abuse or twatiness if we let you know that we’re suddenly available and you’re not. We understand that you might not be available, but we’ll always ask, just in case.

9. Most of us are fully bi and will expect to play with BOTH of you. If the female of the couple is only bi-curious and/or not been with a woman before then make this VERY clear as soon as possible. Some Unicorns won’t appreciate popping bi cherries and we are not toys or robots to act on your whim and for only your benefit.

10. We don’t mind answering questions and are usually very open, but there is often a lot to find on our profiles - read everything, be interested in us as actual human beings and that will get you a long way.

11. Don’t get offended if you get ghosted or ignored. We are busy and in demand (also often single working parents) and we don’t have time to reply to everyone. Especially if you don’t fit our preferences, can’t accommodate, won’t travel, aren’t available when we are, don’t look like our type, have a shit profile etc etc

12. Make the time to read our profiles and ensure you fit in with our preferences before you message. This is the first thing we’ll look at and probably won't even reply if you don’t check those boxes. These can include: looks, body shape, location, smoking, piercings, tattoos, hair, accommodate, travel, availability, accents, colour of your eyes and anything else! Again, we can afford to be fussy and we often are...

13. We sometimes know other unicorns and have FWBs but we can’t just magic them up if you fancy a gangbang/orgy. Get yourself to clubs and events if this is something you want to try, or at least build a relationship and have one meet before broaching this as a serious suggestion.

14. We tend to carry a lot of sway in the swinging community, so try to be nice and respectful. Don’t act like twats. We will warn other unicorns about you if you are abusive/fake/liars so keep that in mind.

15. A verification on Fab from a unicorn will really help you meet others so try to meet us for a social - even at a social event is good (see Number 8)

16. Sometimes people pretend to be Unicorns (to get you to meet them and not notice that they are a guy?? Who knows!). If they’re too good to be true, then they probably are. Be aware of who you might be arranging to meet or invite your house. If you think you’re talking to a unicorn and they DON’T ask to see you as a live couple, then this should sound major alarm bells.

17. Ask us how long we’ve been swinging, how long we’ve been a unicorn and what our own experiences are. We’re rare but that doesn’t mean you should invite someone into your house/bed/relationship without asking important questions. I wouldn't be offended at being asked anything like this. It shows that you’ve thought about what you’re doing and are taking it seriously (as you should!)

18. An experienced unicorn won’t mind taking the lead in contact, making arrangements etc but newbie unicorns can be very shy and find the whole thing just as overwhelming as you can so think about what you want/need and how that’s going to work for socials and meets to play.

19. Never expect sex - this is SO important. I am always VERY clear when I meet up for a social that this is just a social and we can arrange to meet for play on a separate occasion. This is something I’ve had to do due to past awful (and scary) experiences. The more you do to reassure the Unicorn that you don’t expect sex, the more likely she is to meet you.

20. Think about who’s going to contact the Unicorn in the first instance. Most couples seem to nominate the Mrs to do this and I would agree that this is probably a good start - especially if you are new, or the Unicorn is new. Personally, I don’t mind if the Mr approaches me first but I would expect to see both of you before we meet anyway (see Number 1).

21. Don’t send winks or friend requests on Fab - I get loads every day and don’t even look at them. Read my profile, send me a decent message and we’ll go from there.

22. When you first contact the Unicorn (after making sure you meet their preferences and are prepared to meet them at least halfway), focus on building a friendship before jumping in with the sex talk. Unicorns don’t necessarily want to just have a one-off 2 hour session with a random couple and never see them again. Often, we’re looking for friendship, respect and people we can socialise with outside of swinging.

23. If you’re telling the Unicorn that you want to look for someone to have regular couple fun with and/or a friendship in the long term then think about what this means for you as a couple.

24. Totally forgot to mention this last time, but Unicorns would expect total protected sex and would assume that this is something you’ve considered. Does the Mr wear condoms for both women? Does he change condoms between partners? What about oral sex on the Mr and Mrs? Please think about this and be prepared to answer questions (or ask them!) on this subject.

25. You don’t have to put us on a pedestal, treats us as special, a toy or a plaything . We are normal human beings and treating us as anything other than that will put us off. We know we’re in demand but we just want to have fun and get our freak on like everyone else ??

Additional questions that have come up and could do with considering for any couple:

Who’s going to contact the Unicorn away from Fab?

Do you have a group chat?

What if only two of the three want to chat - is this ok?

Will one of you be happy to meet her on your own for a play, if so when and where?

Do you three go on socials together or is it just sex?

What happens if one of you starts getting feelings for the Unicorn or vice versa?

Are you ok hearing about the Unicorn meeting other couples or singles?

Are you the jealous type?

Are you Poly? If so, mention this asap as this is a different dynamic for the Unicorn.

Feedback from my first thread led to me/us being called entitled and implying that we weren’t prepared to pay our way. To some extent, this is probably true. Our time is in demand so you can increase your chances of making yourself available as much as possible, offering to travel a little further, offer to pay for a hotel if you can’t accommodate etc in order to look more attractive out of the hundreds of other couples looking for a Unicorn. You don’t have to do this, but this is a guide and this is something that’s a BIG part of the practicalities of arranging a social or a meet.

As bi women, when we go to a club or a social we can probably have sex with most of the people in the room. This is just how swinging works - if you get your knickers in a twist about this, then you need to get your head out of your arse and appreciate that this is what it means to be a single bi woman anywhere (not only swinging). But this also means we have to deal with double the shit from men, women and couples trying to find decent partners lol. We are human beings and like to chat to people and see if there is any chemistry before we jump into bed with them. If you’re genuinely a nice couple, honest and open then you won’t have any problem finding a single woman to join you in a club. I appreciate that there is an element of confidence and experience required so don’t expect too much on your first few visits to a club or a social. Never expect sex and you might get some lol.

Wasn’t sure where to put this but someone commented on my other thread implying that couples shouldn't act entitled as if Unicorns are privileged to share a sexual experience with them. I actually disagree with this. I think having sex with anyone is a privilege - certainly not an entitlement. I am so lucky that I get to have these amazing experiences with men, women and couples and feel incredibly privileged if a couple asks me to share this part of their lives with me. I would hope that the majority of Unicorns would agree with me in this and I hate that something which would be an enjoyable and fun experience almost has to complete a checklist in order to happen.

We don’t want to steal your man - we can get our own if we wanted one. We also don’t want to steal your woman. You might think we’re egotistical and that probably says more about you than us. We have to deal with double the shite, double the abuse and double the work in order to get our kicks (triple if you think we sleep with single women, single men AND couples) so you try managing all that as well as ‘normal’ life and don’t come across as a cranky bitch sometimes. lol.

A fair but of negativity was thrown at me/us on the previous thread and I hope this has counteracted many of those comments but if you've read all this and STILL feel like posting something about us being entitled/egotistical/seeking to be on a pedestal etc etc then I'll just kindly ask you to fuck off

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By *uesdaysfundayCouple
over a year ago

Sandbach

Site admin where ever you can pin this. Paperblast it out to every single user. I think not only can we use this help for us bi ladies, but for all of us as a new year's resolution.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Spammed out now unicorns are that rare they don't know they are a unicorn..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

From one unicorn to another.....I couldn't of said it better myself!!! Thank you for this thread!!xx

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By *umkisscoupleCouple
over a year ago

Stoke-on-Trent

An absolutely fantastic post! Something I'd definitely recommend to "unicorns" and "unicorn hunters" in our social circle (we generally don't seek out single women)

The people I've seen have the most fun and be the most attractive to single women are the sociable, charming couples who are friendly and chatty in a club environment. I've also noticed that they are often quite flexible and enjoy socialising with and playing with couples as well which tends to mark them out as "proper swingers" rather than those on the scene to fulfil the very specific fantasy of inviting another woman into their bed

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By *ornyguy169Man
over a year ago

birmingham

Hey ladies hope you all had an amazing Christmas but question I don’t really understand so unicorn are bi fem there there into men

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By *iss_taylorraeWoman
over a year ago

Here and there

Great post! Thank you OP!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hey ladies hope you all had an amazing Christmas but question I don’t really understand so unicorn are bi fem there there into men "

Eh?

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By *randMrsCambridgeCouple
over a year ago

Stansted (Herts/Essex)

Thank you for this sensational post xx

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By *herrySnickersWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere

Love this well considered post also... so many can’t seem to get the basics right...

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By *adMerWoman
over a year ago

Sandwich

Excellent post. Very well written and thoughtful.

It is definitely an excellent guide into how us “unicorns” operate.

Thank you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Brilliant! Thanks for posting

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Aw thanks everyone! Glad it's appreciated x

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Hey ladies hope you all had an amazing Christmas but question I don’t really understand so unicorn are bi fem there there into men "

I think you're asking if we're (Unicorns) are into men...?

Yes, some of us are straight so into just men and some of us are bi-sexual and into men and women.

I'm 70% straight and prefer men, but I'm not gonna turn down curves and a lovely pair of boobies x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Omg I love this post

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By *ng1983Couple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon tyne

This is a fantastic thread and every single person looking for a single lady on here should be made to read it!

Gem

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hope you don’t mind if I post a link to your post on my profile?

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

Here is a condensed version of something I put on the other unicorn threads.

Meet people because you like them, not because you have a sexual agenda. People are not likely to get into bed with you unless they like you. Cultivate the friendships first and the rest can follow. No chemistry = no sex in the majority of cases. That means the chemistry is the thing to focus on, not the sexual objectives.

Most couples and single women don't like to feel like they are a way of you crossing something off your list. They are not there for you. You are not a charity.

We have had several offers to meet single women who say they don't meet couples. I think it's because we don't have an agenda other than to meet nice people. They feel comfortable around us.

We hope in the long run we get to do things like have a full bi mff, but we don't meet any one woman to push that agenda. We are confident that at some point all the pieces will fit together and it will happen. In the meantime, we make new friends and that's something to enjoy in itself.

I think this is good advice for anybody who is struggling to meet somebody. Anybody approaching us who has an obvious sexual agenda will normally be turned down. I know we are not the only ones like that.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Hope you don’t mind if I post a link to your post on my profile?"

Not at all! Anything that helps.

I put it on my last post that this could be shared, and got slammed for being egotistical and 'giving permission' when I was just being sarcastic. But yes, anyone can share this on their profile, of course.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Love this!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/12/19 11:01:48]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hope you don’t mind if I post a link to your post on my profile?

Not at all! Anything that helps.

I put it on my last post that this could be shared, and got slammed for being egotistical and 'giving permission' when I was just being sarcastic. But yes, anyone can share this on their profile, of course."

Thanks! I’m just catching up with your previous thread.

You’re not being egotistical at all - You’ve managed to write down what we’ve all been wanting to write, but couldn’t find the words!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Hope you don’t mind if I post a link to your post on my profile?

Not at all! Anything that helps.

I put it on my last post that this could be shared, and got slammed for being egotistical and 'giving permission' when I was just being sarcastic. But yes, anyone can share this on their profile, of course.

Thanks! I’m just catching up with your previous thread.

You’re not being egotistical at all - You’ve managed to write down what we’ve all been wanting to write, but couldn’t find the words!!"

Aw bless! Thanks must have had some Christmas inspiration lol

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By *exy4youxxWoman
over a year ago

Pontefract

This is an amazing thread I am bi but have straight on my profile for fear of being hunted lol x

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By *andKBCouple
over a year ago

Plymouth

Such a good post!!

We are a couple but as a bi female I will play alone with females and couples. But when this was stated on our profile all we ever got was we just want your Mrs type messages.

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By *eviantdeeliteCouple
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"This is an amazing thread I am bi but have straight on my profile for fear of being hunted lol x "

Why lie? That is half of the problem on here....why cannot everyone tell the truth instead of some manufactured version of themselves....oh I know! Because it is social media and everyone wants to be adored

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By *andKBCouple
over a year ago

Plymouth


"This is an amazing thread I am bi but have straight on my profile for fear of being hunted lol x

Why lie? That is half of the problem on here....why cannot everyone tell the truth instead of some manufactured version of themselves....oh I know! Because it is social media and everyone wants to be adored "

Yeah I dont get that!! I guess its because they would literally get hundreds of messages from couples is the only reason I can think of. But you could put your filters on and just contact people you're keen on yourself?

The only reason I no longer announce on our profile I meet couples alone is because that's all we ever got messages about!!

In fact since we took that off and put single men filters on I think weve had maybe 3 messages.

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By *eviantdeeliteCouple
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"This is an amazing thread I am bi but have straight on my profile for fear of being hunted lol x

Why lie? That is half of the problem on here....why cannot everyone tell the truth instead of some manufactured version of themselves....oh I know! Because it is social media and everyone wants to be adored

Yeah I dont get that!! I guess its because they would literally get hundreds of messages from couples is the only reason I can think of. "

But then just put more information in the profile and more photos ...I profile that says "I am gagging for it" will attract all and sundry ....don't moan about lots if messages it you are putting it out

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"This is an amazing thread I am bi but have straight on my profile for fear of being hunted lol x

Why lie? That is half of the problem on here....why cannot everyone tell the truth instead of some manufactured version of themselves....oh I know! Because it is social media and everyone wants to be adored "

I'm sorry that you have such a chip on your shoulder and can't seem to post anything other than negativity. If you have such an issue with other people and what they do, then perhaps you should stay off social media and the internet and take some time for yourself. Sounds like you might need some 'me time'.

No negative posts until you showed up. Again.

Merry Christmas

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By *andKBCouple
over a year ago

Plymouth


"This is an amazing thread I am bi but have straight on my profile for fear of being hunted lol x

Why lie? That is half of the problem on here....why cannot everyone tell the truth instead of some manufactured version of themselves....oh I know! Because it is social media and everyone wants to be adored

I'm sorry that you have such a chip on your shoulder and can't seem to post anything other than negativity. If you have such an issue with other people and what they do, then perhaps you should stay off social media and the internet and take some time for yourself. Sounds like you might need some 'me time'.

No negative posts until you showed up. Again.

Merry Christmas "

There's always one sadly

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By *exy4youxxWoman
over a year ago

Pontefract


"This is an amazing thread I am bi but have straight on my profile for fear of being hunted lol x

Why lie? That is half of the problem on here....why cannot everyone tell the truth instead of some manufactured version of themselves....oh I know! Because it is social media and everyone wants to be adored "

Why lie? I'm not exactly lying I'm not playing with wemon for now so in my eyes I'm straight couples are blocked from messaging im not stringing them along or lying to them asking for a meet as posted I dint want to be pestered and people reading profile are you seriously having a laugh out of all the messages I'm getting maybe 3 have actually read my profile...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wow OP what a great read. Well done. I know a few single females that feel like a plaything for couples and this hits the nail on the head.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is an amazing thread I am bi but have straight on my profile for fear of being hunted lol x

Why lie? That is half of the problem on here....why cannot everyone tell the truth instead of some manufactured version of themselves....oh I know! Because it is social media and everyone wants to be adored

I'm sorry that you have such a chip on your shoulder and can't seem to post anything other than negativity. If you have such an issue with other people and what they do, then perhaps you should stay off social media and the internet and take some time for yourself. Sounds like you might need some 'me time'.

No negative posts until you showed up. Again.

Merry Christmas

There's always one sadly"

Yes but always the same one?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Would love it if you could do something similar for bi-curious ladies looking to meet other ladies, that's the main part I'm struggling with

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Would love it if you could do something similar for bi-curious ladies looking to meet other ladies, that's the main part I'm struggling with "

Are you a single lady? I'll have a think, but getting out to clubs and events is the best way I think xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Would love it if you could do something similar for bi-curious ladies looking to meet other ladies, that's the main part I'm struggling with

Are you a single lady? I'll have a think, but getting out to clubs and events is the best way I think xx"

Yes I am, I've messaged a few ladies in my area and got nothing back. I think it might be the curious part putting them off as you touched on something similar in your post.

Dont like the idea of clubs/parties it's a bit too public for me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've got two identical versions of this thread. One that updates and one that doesn't.

Perhaps we should make this into a snog, pass type popularity contest and perhaps it will be acceptable than an informative thread that actually helps a lot of people.

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By *eviantdeeliteCouple
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"This is an amazing thread I am bi but have straight on my profile for fear of being hunted lol x

Why lie? That is half of the problem on here....why cannot everyone tell the truth instead of some manufactured version of themselves....oh I know! Because it is social media and everyone wants to be adored

I'm sorry that you have such a chip on your shoulder and can't seem to post anything other than negativity. If you have such an issue with other people and what they do, then perhaps you should stay off social media and the internet and take some time for yourself. Sounds like you might need some 'me time'.

No negative posts until you showed up. Again.

Merry Christmas

There's always one sadly

Yes but always the same one? "

It is an open forum where everyone is entitled to an opinion...but yet again the forumite clique seem to be the only ones who can voice it...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is an amazing thread I am bi but have straight on my profile for fear of being hunted lol x

Why lie? That is half of the problem on here....why cannot everyone tell the truth instead of some manufactured version of themselves....oh I know! Because it is social media and everyone wants to be adored

I'm sorry that you have such a chip on your shoulder and can't seem to post anything other than negativity. If you have such an issue with other people and what they do, then perhaps you should stay off social media and the internet and take some time for yourself. Sounds like you might need some 'me time'.

No negative posts until you showed up. Again.

Merry Christmas

There's always one sadly

Yes but always the same one?

It is an open forum where everyone is entitled to an opinion...but yet again the forumite clique seem to be the only ones who can voice it..."

Is that what you are doing? Excuse me for not being able to tell the difference.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip


"Would love it if you could do something similar for bi-curious ladies looking to meet other ladies, that's the main part I'm struggling with "

For what it's worth, I recommend taking the approach I talk about earlier. Concentrate just on having conversations with people rather than reaching your end objective. There are single ladies on Fab who are looking for other women (there are threads on exactly that) and couples whose female half is allowed to be with other women without the male half having any involvement. Often it's not obvious, and it's not searchable either. It can take conversations for it to come out.

I suggest you post on the forums and let everybody see you as a likeable person. Those posts can lead to conversations that might lead to finding out you click with somebody.

Also don't put all your eggs in one basket. Fab is not the only site you can get to know people. There are apps too.

Focus on finding the chemistry rather than your end goal. You won't reach that goal without finding that chemistry first.

I totally get clubs are not for you. Most of them aren't for us either. There are other options and there are ladies looking for what you are too.

Best wishes for your search. I hope you find what you are looking for. Luke

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By *he Mac LassWoman
over a year ago

Hefty Hideaway

I identify as narwhal. Like a unicorn but easier to catch.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm just a whale. Thank God for elastic!

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

O o O oo

Can people please just answer posts instead of attacking others for doing just that

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By *uietlykinkymeWoman
over a year ago

kinky land

From my pov 1. Don't call me a unicorn.

2. If you're profile is all about hunting unicorns... block me

I'm a person! I don't have any single female friends, straight or bi, that likes being called a unicorn or being hunted by unicorn hunters.

I won't fit into a unicorn vending machine slot

The opening posts are not bad. I just don't think encouraging the term 'unicorn' is a good thing

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By *uietlykinkymeWoman
over a year ago

kinky land

*your

I really should type more than 8 words on my phone screen *ever*

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

O o O oo


"Can people please just answer posts instead of attacking others for doing just that"

Back to the OP please, if it carries on then don't be surprised if people are banned

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The OP has come off Fab now because of this thread. Well done. Bravo. An actual genuine person just gone.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

O o O oo

If people disagreeing with another on a forum makes someone abuse others and then delete their account then maybe they are not suited to a forum on the internet

Maybe time to close as people don't want to discuss the OP anymore

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