FabSwingers.com mobile

Join us FREE, we're FREE to use

Web's largest swingers site since 2006.

Already registered?
Login here

Back to forum list
Back to Swinging Support and Advice

A tip for single guys

Jump to newest
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The forums are full of posts from guys who complain/seek advice because they aren't getting any so here is some in advance advice for them all.

Try the region chat rooms. Seriously, go in and chat normally. So many head of, tell someone they look good then ask to add as friends or meet. Build up some friendships by being normal, meets will follow.

Alternatively use tinder. Much easier to get laid as a single guy on tinder.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

My tip would be to get to clubs and parties .... much better and more natural than here to find a meet. Fabs is good to make connections and chat, but the social aspect is out there ...

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"My tip would be to get to clubs and parties .... much better and more natural than here to find a meet. Fabs is good to make connections and chat, but the social aspect is out there ..."

Absolutely. Too many guys seem to think that being swingers means people will fuck anyone at the drop of a hat

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we are all bastards, well known fact. Clueless, selfish, unintelligent, disrespectful, hateful bastards that cannot handle rejection and send out hundreds of inane messages on a daily basis just to give people something to write about on the forums...

Tip for couples...

Hoop jumping is for dogs and dolphins

Merry Christmas x

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn


"My tip would be to get to clubs and parties .... much better and more natural than here to find a meet. Fabs is good to make connections and chat, but the social aspect is out there ...

Absolutely. Too many guys seem to think that being swingers means people will fuck anyone at the drop of a hat "

many will

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The forums are full of posts from guys who complain/seek advice because they aren't getting any so here is some in advance advice for them all.

Try the region chat rooms. Seriously, go in and chat normally. So many head of, tell someone they look good then ask to add as friends or meet. Build up some friendships by being normal, meets will follow.

Alternatively use tinder. Much easier to get laid as a single guy on tinder. "

its harder on fab to find single attractive women, ironically a sex site is the hardest place to get laid!

fab is id say 60% men, 20% couples 20$ singe women profiles

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The forums are full of posts from guys who complain/seek advice because they aren't getting any so here is some in advance advice for them all.

Try the region chat rooms. Seriously, go in and chat normally. So many head of, tell someone they look good then ask to add as friends or meet. Build up some friendships by being normal, meets will follow.

Alternatively use tinder. Much easier to get laid as a single guy on tinder. "
hey the chatrooms are a nightmare they scroll so quickly you can't keep up and they are another example of 50 guys all messaging One woman at the same time saying " can I wank for you on cam"

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"we are all bastards, well known fact. Clueless, selfish, unintelligent, disrespectful, hateful bastards that cannot handle rejection and send out hundreds of inane messages on a daily basis just to give people something to write about on the forums...

Tip for couples...

Hoop jumping is for dogs and dolphins

Merry Christmas x"

Succinctly put lol!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham


"hey the chatrooms are a nightmare they scroll so quickly you can't keep up and they are another example of 50 guys all messaging One woman at the same time saying " can I wank for you on cam" "

To a point but there are some genuine conversations that go on in there.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

My tip for single guys is to actually meet someone.

So many say they can't but when offered they bottle.

I've happily met guys just for a coffee, chat and a veri if they turn up. But so many cba to even do that

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *hole Lotta RosieWoman
over a year ago

Deviant City

Socials are great starting point. Plenty large socials, up and down the country.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham


"Socials are great starting point. Plenty large socials, up and down the country."

Very true, I host socials on my other account. And welcome newbies

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"we are all bastards, well known fact. Clueless, selfish, unintelligent, disrespectful, hateful bastards that cannot handle rejection and send out hundreds of inane messages on a daily basis just to give people something to write about on the forums...

Tip for couples...

Hoop jumping is for dogs and dolphins

Merry Christmas x"

Well said that man!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Women and couples dont really know how hard it is for single men here, the only reason they are popular is cos the site is saturated with men. The only time they would truly know is seeing it from a mans _iew, the best advice is having patience lol.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Women and couples dont really know how hard it is for single men here, the only reason they are popular is cos the site is saturated with men. The only time they would truly know is seeing it from a mans _iew, the best advice is having patience lol."

No, I live with someone who is a single man on Fabs.

He seems just fine to be honest. Doesn't seem to have all the problems that so many in the forums seem to suggest. He's no Adonis either.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"we are all bastards, well known fact. Clueless, selfish, unintelligent, disrespectful, hateful bastards that cannot handle rejection and send out hundreds of inane messages on a daily basis just to give people something to write about on the forums...

Tip for couples...

Hoop jumping is for dogs and dolphins

Merry Christmas x"

You sound bitter. It isn't about jumping through hoops it is about getting to know people.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Newbies...Go to socials and make contacts. Chat rooms to and maybe forums. All part of confidence building

Not so New....Maybe just focus on clubs and still keep finger on the pulse in chat rooms and forums...

Above advice is all +VAT

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My tip for single guys is to actually meet someone.

So many say they can't but when offered they bottle.

I've happily met guys just for a coffee, chat and a veri if they turn up. But so many cba to even do that "

So your solution for single men who aren't successful in getting people to meet them is for them to meet someone?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Women and couples dont really know how hard it is for single men here, the only reason they are popular is cos the site is saturated with men. The only time they would truly know is seeing it from a mans _iew, the best advice is having patience lol.

No, I live with someone who is a single man on Fabs.

He seems just fine to be honest. Doesn't seem to have all the problems that so many in the forums seem to suggest. He's no Adonis either."
I take it he would travel long distances and hardly no local? I could have loads of meets to if I am willing to travel 70miles plus.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *aughtyYorkGentMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire


"Women and couples dont really know how hard it is for single men here, the only reason they are popular is cos the site is saturated with men. The only time they would truly know is seeing it from a mans _iew, the best advice is having patience lol."

I think a lot of single guys AND single women would get a real shock if they could manage each others' messages for a month or so, to be honest!

I do sometimes feel the ladies don't appreciate what guys are up against, but by the same token I've been shocked by conversations with gals on here. The bizarre content and sheer volume of mails and the rudeness and abuse dished out by some guys is staggering. I'm not sure who gets the worst deal to be honest!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ordonBennettMan
over a year ago

dover


"we are all bastards, well known fact. Clueless, selfish, unintelligent, disrespectful, hateful bastards that cannot handle rejection and send out hundreds of inane messages on a daily basis just to give people something to write about on the forums...

Tip for couples...

Hoop jumping is for dogs and dolphins

Merry Christmas x

Well said that man!"

I think you both need your Snickers!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iSTARessWoman
over a year ago

London

Chat rooms are good for occasional interesting and quick fire chat. Met some nice folk from there (not the directing rooms though).

My only request from randy solo flyers would be, be nice. Sending an unsolicited picture of your wang and the naughty things you want to try in your first message isn't going to get me moist

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The secret is not to expect anything then the anything you get can be better appreciated

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Chat rooms are good for occasional interesting and quick fire chat. Met some nice folk from there (not the directing rooms though). "

For a woman, maybe. For a man its like trying to get served in a crowded bar - it takes half an hour for anyone to notice you exist, and friends of the staff always get served first.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Chat rooms are good for occasional interesting and quick fire chat. Met some nice folk from there (not the directing rooms though).

My only request from randy solo flyers would be, be nice. Sending an unsolicited picture of your wang and the naughty things you want to try in your first message isn't going to get me moist "

Exactly this

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Women and couples dont really know how hard it is for single men here, the only reason they are popular is cos the site is saturated with men. The only time they would truly know is seeing it from a mans _iew, the best advice is having patience lol.

No, I live with someone who is a single man on Fabs.

He seems just fine to be honest. Doesn't seem to have all the problems that so many in the forums seem to suggest. He's no Adonis either.I take it he would travel long distances and hardly no local? I could have loads of meets to if I am willing to travel 70miles plus."

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"we are all bastards, well known fact. Clueless, selfish, unintelligent, disrespectful, hateful bastards that cannot handle rejection and send out hundreds of inane messages on a daily basis just to give people something to write about on the forums...

Tip for couples...

Hoop jumping is for dogs and dolphins

Merry Christmas x

You sound bitter. It isn't about jumping through hoops it is about getting to know people. "

Far from bitter, but meh... I do okay, but the posts to single guys "helping them out" does nothing. why?

The guys that bitch about not getting meets are obviously doing something wrong, whether its their approach, profile, location etc...

Its a little bit patronising to say to those guys "go on a webcam or go to a club", i think they probably know those things exist.... when the main cause of their inability to get a meet is actually beyond their control to a greater or lesser degree. Good advice for a single guy would be the following

1) be selective, taking 10 minutes or more composing a message for someone is nothing to moan about if it gets deleted, if you read their profile, and composed your message with that in mind, and you still get bounced, hard lines... move on

2) take rejection with grace, there is no need to start a feud

3) present yourself in a way that IS attractive to the profile you wish to engage with

4) be patient, don't harass, all good things.. etc

5) have a look at more successful male profiles, what are they doing differently from you?

6) be patient (again), try to think of fab as another string to your bow, not all your bow

7) have a face pic on your profile, it cuts out a lot of the unnecessary messages that lead to expectation and unfortunate disappointment. If you can't put one on your profile, send one straight away, get the attraction aspect out of the way first.

8) take rejection calmly (again),

Going to clubs? No thank you. I went to one down here, quite a famous one, too much bareback for my taste...sorry. Webcam/chat, really, some of the rooms on this site are more clique than the forum

As for hoop jumping, it was tongue in cheek, so glad you could see that...

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

best advice is 'be you' and fuck what others tell you to be

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"we are all bastards, well known fact. Clueless, selfish, unintelligent, disrespectful, hateful bastards that cannot handle rejection and send out hundreds of inane messages on a daily basis just to give people something to write about on the forums...

Tip for couples...

Hoop jumping is for dogs and dolphins

Merry Christmas x

You sound bitter. It isn't about jumping through hoops it is about getting to know people.

Far from bitter, but meh... I do okay, but the posts to single guys "helping them out" does nothing. why?

The guys that bitch about not getting meets are obviously doing something wrong, whether its their approach, profile, location etc...

Its a little bit patronising to say to those guys "go on a webcam or go to a club", i think they probably know those things exist.... when the main cause of their inability to get a meet is actually beyond their control to a greater or lesser degree. Good advice for a single guy would be the following

1) be selective, taking 10 minutes or more composing a message for someone is nothing to moan about if it gets deleted, if you read their profile, and composed your message with that in mind, and you still get bounced, hard lines... move on

2) take rejection with grace, there is no need to start a feud

3) present yourself in a way that IS attractive to the profile you wish to engage with

4) be patient, don't harass, all good things.. etc

5) have a look at more successful male profiles, what are they doing differently from you?

6) be patient (again), try to think of fab as another string to your bow, not all your bow

7) have a face pic on your profile, it cuts out a lot of the unnecessary messages that lead to expectation and unfortunate disappointment. If you can't put one on your profile, send one straight away, get the attraction aspect out of the way first.

8) take rejection calmly (again),

Going to clubs? No thank you. I went to one down here, quite a famous one, too much bareback for my taste...sorry. Webcam/chat, really, some of the rooms on this site are more clique than the forum

As for hoop jumping, it was tongue in cheek, so glad you could see that... "

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"we are all bastards, well known fact. Clueless, selfish, unintelligent, disrespectful, hateful bastards that cannot handle rejection and send out hundreds of inane messages on a daily basis just to give people something to write about on the forums...

Tip for couples...

Hoop jumping is for dogs and dolphins

Merry Christmas x

You sound bitter. It isn't about jumping through hoops it is about getting to know people.

Far from bitter, but meh... I do okay, but the posts to single guys "helping them out" does nothing. why?

The guys that bitch about not getting meets are obviously doing something wrong, whether its their approach, profile, location etc...

Its a little bit patronising to say to those guys "go on a webcam or go to a club", i think they probably know those things exist.... when the main cause of their inability to get a meet is actually beyond their control to a greater or lesser degree. Good advice for a single guy would be the following

1) be selective, taking 10 minutes or more composing a message for someone is nothing to moan about if it gets deleted, if you read their profile, and composed your message with that in mind, and you still get bounced, hard lines... move on

2) take rejection with grace, there is no need to start a feud

3) present yourself in a way that IS attractive to the profile you wish to engage with

4) be patient, don't harass, all good things.. etc

5) have a look at more successful male profiles, what are they doing differently from you?

6) be patient (again), try to think of fab as another string to your bow, not all your bow

7) have a face pic on your profile, it cuts out a lot of the unnecessary messages that lead to expectation and unfortunate disappointment. If you can't put one on your profile, send one straight away, get the attraction aspect out of the way first.

8) take rejection calmly (again),

Going to clubs? No thank you. I went to one down here, quite a famous one, too much bareback for my taste...sorry. Webcam/chat, really, some of the rooms on this site are more clique than the forum

As for hoop jumping, it was tongue in cheek, so glad you could see that...

"
hey are you the best a man can get

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *lighty1Woman
over a year ago

You Dont Need to Know, right now

Bristol Wilts, your 1-8 list of advice is spot on!. However I think Smokey's OP advice should be added as number 9.

If any users aren't finding Fab brings them what they hoped for, then using the chat rooms is a great way to learn. Watch what the popular single men say, and more to the point, watch what they DON'T say, in the chat rooms. It's 100% real time, and will save lots of experimenting via the messages system.

It will all help unsuccessful users to either refine their approach or manage their expectations.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ordweaver2018Man
over a year ago

Carlisle

I have had success on here. I live in a rural area of the country with a low population.

I have had successes because I am patient, polite, dirty and have something that makes me stand out.

With women getting upwards of 100 messages a day in some cases gotta have something that makes you stand out!

I am not physically fit, I am not super intelligent or overly good looking. But I can find meets with nice, fun people.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Socials are great starting point. Plenty large socials, up and down the country."

Except if you live in Cumbria

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Socials are great starting point. Plenty large socials, up and down the country."

Except if you live in Cumbria

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"we are all bastards, well known fact. Clueless, selfish, unintelligent, disrespectful, hateful bastards that cannot handle rejection and send out hundreds of inane messages on a daily basis just to give people something to write about on the forums...

Tip for couples...

Hoop jumping is for dogs and dolphins

Merry Christmas x"

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham


"Socials are great starting point. Plenty large socials, up and down the country.

Except if you live in Cumbria "

Then organise your own. It's not difficult

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"we are all bastards, well known fact. Clueless, selfish, unintelligent, disrespectful, hateful bastards that cannot handle rejection and send out hundreds of inane messages on a daily basis just to give people something to write about on the forums...

Tip for couples...

Hoop jumping is for dogs and dolphins

Merry Christmas x "

Every time I see your screen name... I always wonder how you remember it

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *carlet_heavenWoman
over a year ago

somewhere in the sticks


"we are all bastards, well known fact. Clueless, selfish, unintelligent, disrespectful, hateful bastards that cannot handle rejection and send out hundreds of inane messages on a daily basis just to give people something to write about on the forums...

Tip for couples...

Hoop jumping is for dogs and dolphins

Merry Christmas x"

Yes, but dogs and dolphins demonstrate respect…not limited intelligence!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *irty Girty From No 30Woman
over a year ago

Burbage

Add " dont send wanna fuck" messages as first message

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Women and couples dont really know how hard it is for single men here, the only reason they are popular is cos the site is saturated with men. The only time they would truly know is seeing it from a mans _iew, the best advice is having patience lol."

I have several male friends on here and because they have a good profile and some manners, they do very well. It's not hard for single males. It's hard for single males that have qualities women don't want.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Women and couples dont really know how hard it is for single men here, the only reason they are popular is cos the site is saturated with men. The only time they would truly know is seeing it from a mans _iew, the best advice is having patience lol.

I have several male friends on here and because they have a good profile and some manners, they do very well. It's not hard for single males. It's hard for single males that have qualities women don't want."

Hmmm so being desperate is not good?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Sending an unsolicited picture of your wang and the naughty things you want to try in your first message isn't going to get me moist "

Well said.

Can't understand why many guys think it will, but they do!

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *carlet_heavenWoman
over a year ago

somewhere in the sticks


"Women and couples dont really know how hard it is for single men here, the only reason they are popular is cos the site is saturated with men. The only time they would truly know is seeing it from a mans _iew, the best advice is having patience lol.

I have several male friends on here and because they have a good profile and some manners, they do very well. It's not hard for single males. It's hard for single males that have qualities women don't want."

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"we are all bastards, well known fact. Clueless, selfish, unintelligent, disrespectful, hateful bastards that cannot handle rejection and send out hundreds of inane messages on a daily basis just to give people something to write about on the forums...

Tip for couples...

Hoop jumping is for dogs and dolphins

Merry Christmas x

You sound bitter. It isn't about jumping through hoops it is about getting to know people.

Far from bitter, but meh... I do okay, but the posts to single guys "helping them out" does nothing. why?

The guys that bitch about not getting meets are obviously doing something wrong, whether its their approach, profile, location etc...

Its a little bit patronising to say to those guys "go on a webcam or go to a club", i think they probably know those things exist.... when the main cause of their inability to get a meet is actually beyond their control to a greater or lesser degree. Good advice for a single guy would be the following

1) be selective, taking 10 minutes or more composing a message for someone is nothing to moan about if it gets deleted, if you read their profile, and composed your message with that in mind, and you still get bounced, hard lines... move on

2) take rejection with grace, there is no need to start a feud

3) present yourself in a way that IS attractive to the profile you wish to engage with

4) be patient, don't harass, all good things.. etc

5) have a look at more successful male profiles, what are they doing differently from you?

6) be patient (again), try to think of fab as another string to your bow, not all your bow

7) have a face pic on your profile, it cuts out a lot of the unnecessary messages that lead to expectation and unfortunate disappointment. If you can't put one on your profile, send one straight away, get the attraction aspect out of the way first.

8) take rejection calmly (again),

Going to clubs? No thank you. I went to one down here, quite a famous one, too much bareback for my taste...sorry. Webcam/chat, really, some of the rooms on this site are more clique than the forum

As for hoop jumping, it was tongue in cheek, so glad you could see that... "

We have been going to Clubs for years and yes people have bareback sex a lot of the time. Husbands with their wives.... It is perfectly normal, just as it is perfectly normal to use condoms when other people are involved.

We and most people we know would not even bother making the effort anymore to arrange a cold meet off here. At least when you go to Clubs and socials at Clubs you know that you are mixing with the real deal.

There are things that a site like this could do to make life easier for people to meet off the site but I doubt that they are that bothered tbh.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Women and couples dont really know how hard it is for single men here, the only reason they are popular is cos the site is saturated with men. The only time they would truly know is seeing it from a mans _iew, the best advice is having patience lol.

I have several male friends on here and because they have a good profile and some manners, they do very well. It's not hard for single males. It's hard for single males that have qualities women don't want."
As I said it is not hard, unless you are willing to travel. I bet most of them travel 20 miles+ too.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham


"I have several male friends on here and because they have a good profile and some manners, they do very well. It's not hard for single males. It's hard for single males that have qualities women don't want."

Exactly

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *aughtyYorkGentMan
over a year ago

Yorkshire


"

Sending an unsolicited picture of your wang and the naughty things you want to try in your first message isn't going to get me moist

Well said.

Can't understand why many guys think it will, but they do! "

I'm not condoning it, but perhaps because the previous three messages the guy sent triggered blunt replies bemoaning him NOT sending a picture of his 'wang', or NOT being sexually explicit enough (see my post above), and he's over-compensating?

I'm beginning to think this is not a difference between the sexes at all, but more a difference in attitudes, expectations and behaviours which crosses the genders.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

Mr's first message to me, over a year ago, was 'nice fits'. I looked at his profile, too many cock pictures. But also fascinating because of the piercings, then .... I noticed the jawline and the rest is history ... as they say. Well, I gave him the time of day and we began to converse, found we had lots in common, sexually and in real life .... my point is, it was not the message for me, but the profile behind it.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *onyneMan
over a year ago

Newcastle

I am a single man on here who would be unlikely to go to a social because I like to remain private...I don't really go to the chatrooms apart from the occasional neb, and don't send pics out to everyone. I do like to post on forums but only if I have an interest in the thread. Besides all this I do have some nice friends here and have had some lovely experiences over the time I have been on here.

We are all different is my point.

Good luck and happy christmas to all.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Women and couples dont really know how hard it is for single men here, the only reason they are popular is cos the site is saturated with men. The only time they would truly know is seeing it from a mans _iew, the best advice is having patience lol.

I have several male friends on here and because they have a good profile and some manners, they do very well. It's not hard for single males. It's hard for single males that have qualities women don't want.As I said it is not hard, unless you are willing to travel. I bet most of them travel 20 miles+ too."

We live in Glasgow so 20 miles away is still pretty much Glasgow anyway. But mostly they arrange first social meets in the city centre. No real travelling required.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
Post new Message to Thread
back to top