FabSwingers.com forum: I'm gender fluid not a TV

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

hi everyone. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this please?

I'm gender fluid which means I'm kind of the sex in between. I'm physically a guy but feel just as much as a female as I do a male. That means although I do like to dress en femme on occasions I love equally being a guy too.

Here lays the issue. My profile classes my as TV. Therefore a lot of Members on here have "blocked my sex". There are some fantastic men and women I'd love to chat too and possibly meet but can't contact them! So frustrating.

Most who contact me are guy wanting to meet Katz not Jase. I guess my profile name doesn't help. Lol. Just wish more would read my profile!

So ultimately I'm asking this. (this is open to all genders). Would you be deterred from contacting or meeting me because I'm listed on here as a TV. I love to play and connect in all modes of attire! Not just as a leather clad girl!

Xxx

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes because you're bi sexual not because of being a tv or what you wear

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lots of people have blocked receiving messages from single guys and twirls. It's usually to stop countless one line messages and give them time to search for them selves. I suspect lack of pics hinders you too, perhaps take a few and watch your inbox fill up. It works for me.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm not really bisexual though. Bi means two, which infers I like both men and women. X

I'm pansexual, which means I'm attracted ( that doesn't necessarily just mean sexually) to the person regardless of gender. I see people as people and not just what anatomy they have.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

Would it be easier to have a guys profilr then explain you like dressing etc and have some pics in both modes in public so people can see?

Or is it possible (or allowed within fab rules?) to have 2 peofiles one for meeting as a guy and one for meeting as a tv?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I talk to TV's but don't want to meet one for sex. Maybe a bit weird coming from a bi guy but I prefer real ladies.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am also gender fluid/third and had the same problem. I went with female with "cross dressing" ticked because that felt more accurate.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/09/15 08:51:43]

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olfcartweaselCouple
over a year ago

Melrose

Whoops. Meant to post this in the forum, sent it privately by accident:

Gender norms and treatments of non-binary gender are somewhat regressive in the swinging community (as with the sex industry as a whole, and the population at large really).

"TV/TS" is the catch-all on this site (and many others) to cover any variation of assigned-male-presents-as-female, and many of those interested in that group (or explicitly not & have that group blocked) don't really care about the fine detail of nonbinary gender, cross-dressing, transgender, genderqueer, etc - they just care "do I want to fuck them or not?"

As long as the pigeonholes that define the community norms exist (and if they didn't exist, the community would demand them), the "TV/TS" catch-all is the most useful place to assign yourself, and "Bi" interests are the best way to say what interests you on the purely binary scale being offered.

You can go into fine detail in your profile text, but for simple profile matching, those are the categories which will show your profile to the people who might be interested in you - even if it walls you off from people who won't be interested.

Not having any public pictures on a profile is a much bigger blocker for people than anything else, tbh. Especially for "TV/TS", where some people are only interested in people who pass (or who don't)

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Gender norms and treatments of non-binary gender are somewhat regressive in the swinging community (as with the sex industry as a whole, and the population at large really).

This

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Would it be easier to have a guys profilr then explain you like dressing etc and have some pics in both modes in public so people can see?

Or is it possible (or allowed within fab rules?) to have 2 peofiles one for meeting as a guy and one for meeting as a tv? "

Have 2 profiles. You could either keep them separate or mention the other profile on each. I know people with more than one profile for similar reasons. It seems to work well.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"TV/TS" is the catch-all on this site (and many others) to cover any variation of assigned-male-presents-as-female,"

And assigned female presents as other.

People forget that one - hence why I don't put myself in that category on this site.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

It wouldn't deter me, but the lack of pictures would, though.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pansexual. FFS!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irtyAndCh33kyCouple
over a year ago

North Wales

No it wouldn't deter us.

As a bi couple where the M is also a TV we're open to all genders and sexuality ??

Mrs D

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

"Pansexual. FFS!"

It's a perfectly reasonable term.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

It's a shame this site only has TS/TV as a blanket option. It really could do with changing.

I understand Facebook now allows a person to identify as one of many different genders/sexualities. You'd hope a swinging site could be at least as progressive.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pansexual. FFS!"

Pan="all inclusive"

Therefore all-inclusive-sexual.

How else do you say that you like all variants of gender rather than just male and female?

Bisexual means you like *both* genders - male and female. Not that you like anybody other than cis men and women.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be honest I'm a little bored with bi/try/pan/sexuality confusion!

We are all grown ups and surely most of us are here to have new experiences?

If your sexual 'label' puts people off then surely they are to be avoided!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wouldn't deter us at all

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I heard this on Radio 4 last week for the first time.

There seemed to be some confusion what it actually meant (maybe just me as it was late at night).

Be4ing like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus are both claiming to be Gender fluid.

Is it not easy to be `gay` or `bi` rather then these new ( are they new) names popping up

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

*people

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just click bi sexual. Then highlight your interesting dilemma on the profile page . Give it a trial .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard this on Radio 4 last week for the first time.

There seemed to be some confusion what it actually meant (maybe just me as it was late at night).

Be4ing like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus are both claiming to be Gender fluid.

Is it not easy to be `gay` or `bi` rather then these new ( are they new) names popping up"

Genderfluid is to do with (as the name suggests) your gender not your sexuality. It means you are some variation other than male or female.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard this on Radio 4 last week for the first time.

There seemed to be some confusion what it actually meant (maybe just me as it was late at night).

Be4ing like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus are both claiming to be Gender fluid.

Is it not easy to be `gay` or `bi` rather then these new ( are they new) names popping up

Genderfluid is to do with (as the name suggests) your gender not your sexuality. It means you are some variation other than male or female."

But in the real world that doesn't exist. Only inside a persons head

And surely bisexual covers everything

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard this on Radio 4 last week for the first time.

There seemed to be some confusion what it actually meant (maybe just me as it was late at night).

Be4ing like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus are both claiming to be Gender fluid.

Is it not easy to be `gay` or `bi` rather then these new ( are they new) names popping up

Genderfluid is to do with (as the name suggests) your gender not your sexuality. It means you are some variation other than male or female."

Ok I think I understand the difference, so this is not your preference in partners but how you feel yourself in your body?

Is that correct

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard this on Radio 4 last week for the first time.

There seemed to be some confusion what it actually meant (maybe just me as it was late at night).

Be4ing like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus are both claiming to be Gender fluid.

Is it not easy to be `gay` or `bi` rather then these new ( are they new) names popping up

Genderfluid is to do with (as the name suggests) your gender not your sexuality. It means you are some variation other than male or female.

But in the real world that doesn't exist. Only inside a persons head

And surely bisexual covers everything"

You really hate labels don't you?

As said nothing to do with who they fuck so homo, pan, hetro, bi, a or any other sexuality. It means the individual can flit from being male to female in the best way they can physically and mentally. If you going to denounce it as a label the only real match might be transgender

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irceWoman
over a year ago

Gloucester

Think they call that Gender Queer horrid name but that's government for you .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not really bisexual though. Bi means two, which infers I like both men and women. X

I'm pansexual, which means I'm attracted ( that doesn't necessarily just mean sexually) to the person regardless of gender. I see people as people and not just what anatomy they have.

We would probably meet you all say long. We are both bi and I myself share your attitude in regards to gender fluidity.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obbie BelleTV/TS
over a year ago

Preston, Lancaster, Blackpool

[Removed by poster at 11/09/15 16:14:17]

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obbie BelleTV/TS
over a year ago

Preston, Lancaster, Blackpool

"Pansexual. FFS!"

I love this, to many labels!

Clearly a Pansexual is a bi that likes cooking.

Gender Fluid is a bi that likes drinking.

Once they have finnished cooking or drinking, I have have a snog, see if we click, and then take it from there. XXX

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iSTARessWoman
over a year ago

London

Another thread where the small minded crawl out

Why even contribute if your going to look down, dismiss and ridicule how others live or define themselves? Just because these definitions don't belong in your vocabulary, doesn't mean they don't exist or aren't valid.

OP, you're probably better off only meeting those who do tick that box. Less likely to stumble on the bigots.

Might want some photos too.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Another thread where the small minded crawl out

OP, you're probably better off only meeting those who do tick that box. Less likely to stumble on the bigots.

Might want some photos too."

Why? How would he portray his 'pansexuality' with a photo?

And could you please explain to the narrow minded bigots just what exactly a 'pansexual' person actually does that is not covered by heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iSTARessWoman
over a year ago

London

I'm pansexual and gender fluid. I don't believe in gender or sexual binaries.

When I have sex with someone who also considers themselves between the HUGE gender spectrum of male and female, I'm pansexual.

Very simple.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iSTARessWoman
over a year ago

London

Might want some photos too.

Why? How would he portray his 'pansexuality' with a photo?

As for this. Really?

I meant having pics on their profile.

Simple.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm pansexual and gender fluid. I don't believe in gender or sexual binaries.

When I have sex with someone who also considers themselves between the HUGE gender spectrum of male and female, I'm pansexual.

Very simple."

Thats simple? That says nothing other than what you believe

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iSTARessWoman
over a year ago

London

"I'm pansexual and gender fluid. I don't believe in gender or sexual binaries.

When I have sex with someone who also considers themselves between the HUGE gender spectrum of male and female, I'm pansexual.

Very simple.

Thats simple? That says nothing other than what you believe"

If that's what I and others believe, why do you have such a problem with that?

Since when is anything black and white, true and correct?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm pansexual and gender fluid. I don't believe in gender or sexual binaries.

When I have sex with someone who also considers themselves between the HUGE gender spectrum of male and female, I'm pansexual.

Very simple.

Thats simple? That says nothing other than what you believe

If that's what I and others believe, why do you have such a problem with that?

Since when is anything black and white, true and correct?"

I don't have a problem with what you believe but you have yet to explain what is not covered by hetero, homo or bi. And you seem to be the one with a problem towards people who do not share your beliefs by calling them bigots

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iSTARessWoman
over a year ago

London

"I'm pansexual and gender fluid. I don't believe in gender or sexual binaries.

When I have sex with someone who also considers themselves between the HUGE gender spectrum of male and female, I'm pansexual.

Very simple.

Thats simple? That says nothing other than what you believe

If that's what I and others believe, why do you have such a problem with that?

Since when is anything black and white, true and correct?

Is it really so hard to get? All...inbetween.. everything. Het, bi, homo are boxes. Definite and final. Pan opens it up, all inclusive.

If you don't believe it, that's not my issue, nor do I care. Takes all sorts to make a world. My problem is how you've ridiculed and dismissed others choices.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *eneral HysteriaMan
over a year ago

Newcastle

I didn't know you could block TV's. Can you do that?

Loads of people block single guys. Who cares?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But in the real world that doesn't exist. Only inside a persons head"

You could say exactly the same of gender as a whole, if you want to be pedantic about it.

Unlike sex, whose finite definitions are rooted in biology, gender is just a human social construct, and therefore subject to change and reimagining.

No offence, but it strikes me as being a bit obtuse not to recognise new labels that help conceptualise wider identities beyond the male/female paradigm as being 'real', just because they don't conform to the binary norm.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *laire888Woman
over a year ago

Gloucester

your fluidity, and sexuality wouldn't put me off OP

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"I heard this on Radio 4 last week for the first time.

There seemed to be some confusion what it actually meant (maybe just me as it was late at night).

Be4ing like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus are both claiming to be Gender fluid.

Is it not easy to be `gay` or `bi` rather then these new ( are they new) names popping up

Genderfluid is to do with (as the name suggests) your gender not your sexuality. It means you are some variation other than male or female.

But in the real world that doesn't exist. Only inside a persons head

And surely bisexual covers everything"

Are you on a mission?

It seems to be failing spectacularly

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *loweasytouchMan
over a year ago

pucklechurch

"I heard this on Radio 4 last week for the first time.

There seemed to be some confusion what it actually meant (maybe just me as it was late at night).

Be4ing like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus are both claiming to be Gender fluid.

Is it not easy to be `gay` or `bi` rather then these new ( are they new) names popping up

Genderfluid is to do with (as the name suggests) your gender not your sexuality. It means you are some variation other than male or female."

Androgynous might be the term.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *dam and slutCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

I don't care what your sexual, sexuallity, gender is...l'm happy to spank, drip wax on anyone......ummmm sorry thinking outloud again...carry on.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But in the real world that doesn't exist. Only inside a persons head

You could say exactly the same of gender as a whole, if you want to be pedantic about it.

Unlike sex, whose finite definitions are rooted in biology, gender is just a human social construct, and therefore subject to change and reimagining.

You missed the point or maybe I didn't explain it, I meant all gender is what is inside a persons head. Now can you tell me what connotations exist sexually between 2 wider identities that are not covered by hetero, homo or bi?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Wow I didn't realise this post would be like putting a match a the fuse!

There are some fantastic thoughts and observations on here, so thanks. Even though a couple of people don't quite get it yet, at least it's given everyone the opportunity to at consider how others perceive and identify themselves.

As for pics. I know I should put some up really. Although part of me thinks that neither party having pics makes for a more sincere and exciting meeting. I mean without sounding flippant. Visually impaired and blind people don't judge whether they'd meet someone on looks alone.

Thanks again everyone xxx

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Humans instinctively look for patterns, patterns require catagories to sort things, catagories require labels.

Hence people's obsession with them.

Just stop caring to much about it, and stop caring about people who have you blocked/outside of their filters even if you get around them you'll most likely be deleted as that's not what they're looking for.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Sexual fluidity is quite a good adjective, because is reasonable to accept that sexuality is a spectrum, from purely heterosexual to purely homosexual and that some people can move up and down it - now that image I've always thought of as a thin line, for some reason (probably a diagram from yonks ago) but if the line was fluid, then it could be wider at some points although what this width would represent, I'm not sure.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Another thread where the small minded crawl out

OP, you're probably better off only meeting those who do tick that box. Less likely to stumble on the bigots.

Might want some photos too.

Why? How would he portray his 'pansexuality' with a photo?

And could you please explain to the narrow minded bigots just what exactly a 'pansexual' person actually does that is not covered by heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual?

Bisexual means 'likes two genders'. Only male and female. If you're attracted to people who aren't male or female then you're pansexual.

Some people aren't attracted to those who are bigender, third, fluid, queer or trans. They are heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard this on Radio 4 last week for the first time.

There seemed to be some confusion what it actually meant (maybe just me as it was late at night).

Be4ing like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus are both claiming to be Gender fluid.

Is it not easy to be `gay` or `bi` rather then these new ( are they new) names popping up

Genderfluid is to do with (as the name suggests) your gender not your sexuality. It means you are some variation other than male or female.

Androgynous might be the term."

No, it's not. Androgynous refers to something very specific about looks rather than gender or sexuality.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard this on Radio 4 last week for the first time.

There seemed to be some confusion what it actually meant (maybe just me as it was late at night).

Be4ing like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus are both claiming to be Gender fluid.

Is it not easy to be `gay` or `bi` rather then these new ( are they new) names popping up

Genderfluid is to do with (as the name suggests) your gender not your sexuality. It means you are some variation other than male or female.

Androgynous might be the term."

No, it's not. Androgynous refers to something very specific about looks rather than gender or sexuality.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think they call that Gender Queer horrid name but that's government for you .

Genderqueer is different to gender fluid. It's not a horrible name that the government made up, it's a name that was adopted by those of us who identify as genderqueer.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"Think they call that Gender Queer horrid name but that's government for you .

Genderqueer is different to gender fluid. It's not a horrible name that the government made up, it's a name that was adopted by those of us who

identify as genderqueer."

If the person who thought the name was horrid thought the name was horrid then for them, it's horrid. It's their opinion and on something subjective, you can't say 'it's not a horrible name' without any sensible quality of meaning.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Another thread where the small minded crawl out

OP, you're probably better off only meeting those who do tick that box. Less likely to stumble on the bigots.

Might want some photos too.

Why? How would he portray his 'pansexuality' with a photo?

And could you please explain to the narrow minded bigots just what exactly a 'pansexual' person actually does that is not covered by heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual?

Bisexual means 'likes two genders'. Only male and female. If you're attracted to people who aren't male or female then you're pansexual.

Some people aren't attracted to those who are bigender, third, fluid, queer or trans. They are heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual."

So some people who are attracted to those who are bi gender can not be hetero, homo or bi?

Doesn't your gender exist in your mind and people will either be attracted to you or not? I'm a heterosexual guy but not attracted to all women, does that make me any less heterosexual? I might be attracted to a woman who identifies as a man. Does that make me any less heterosexual?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oobsandballsMan
over a year ago

st andrews

I also think we need more options to choose from on here. I'm bi which is straightforward enough, but I understand the frustration of those who identify as fluid.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

I like people.

If I find someone attractive, I find them attractive. It doesn't matter if they have a penis or if they have tits (or both!) I like both.

I don't know what that makes me. I've always ticked the bisexual box because I like having sex with people who have a penis and people who have tits.

I'm not that bothered about labels.

OP, I wouldn't be put off meeting you. There has to be an attraction for me, personality/chemistry/appearance are a factor. Gender makes no odds to me.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ucyfur77Woman
over a year ago

Pleasuretown

"I like people.

If I find someone attractive, I find them attractive. It doesn't matter if they have a penis or if they have tits (or both!) I like both.

I don't know what that makes me. I've always ticked the bisexual box because I like having sex with people who have a penis and people who have tits.

I'm not that bothered about labels.

OP, I wouldn't be put off meeting you. There has to be an attraction for me, personality/chemistry/appearance are a factor. Gender makes no odds to me.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I like people.

If I find someone attractive, I find them attractive. It doesn't matter if they have a penis or if they have tits (or both!) I like both.

I don't know what that makes me. I've always ticked the bisexual box because I like having sex with people who have a penis and people who have tits.

I'm not that bothered about labels.

OP, I wouldn't be put off meeting you. There has to be an attraction for me, personality/chemistry/appearance are a factor. Gender makes no odds to me.

It obviously makes you 'pansexual' don't you know

Well, according to pseudo intellectuals on here who jump on 'trendy' bandwagons without thinking things through, or deluded attention seelking female pop stars, oops, can I call them female

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"I like people.

If I find someone attractive, I find them attractive. It doesn't matter if they have a penis or if they have tits (or both!) I like both.

I don't know what that makes me. I've always ticked the bisexual box because I like having sex with people who have a penis and people who have tits.

I'm not that bothered about labels.

OP, I wouldn't be put off meeting you. There has to be an attraction for me, personality/chemistry/appearance are a factor. Gender makes no odds to me.

It obviously makes you 'pansexual' don't you know

Well, according to pseudo intellectuals on here who jump on 'trendy' bandwagons without thinking things through, or deluded attention seelking female pop stars, oops, can I call them female

Oh it's pretty clear it's been thought through by the people who've posted. I don't envy having to deal with feeling like you don't fit naturally into one gender or the other. I'm guessing that's been pretty traumatic for anyone, especially as a kid when you're born into a body that doesn't feel quite right.

When you have to be confused or explain yourself to people who expect you to fit in a box ticking form because that's all they've known or what they think is 'normal' or socially acceptable. Being different isn't a walk in the park from what I've witnessed throughout my life because not everyone simply accepts the outer shell. The inside is complicated and unless you've experienced that first hand, which I absolutely haven't, I cannot pretend to know how it feels. That, for me, makes these kind of discussions hugely interesting. I find out things that I know nothing about and it makes me think differently. That's a great thing. People are fascinating.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree and can understand the difficulties with gender confusion etc, well to a point anyway as I too have never been in that position. But to suggest that people who are bi sexual cannot be attracted to people who are 'gender fluid' and can only be attracted to people who are either defined solely as male or female is ridiculous. In any state of mind that you are in, the attraction to any other person can be described as hetero, homo or bi. To be gender fluid and attracted to someone else who is gender fluid doesn't change that or make it something different. Now where's me coffee

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You missed the point or maybe I didn't explain it, I meant all gender is what is inside a persons head. Now can you tell me what connotations exist sexually between 2 wider identities that are not covered by hetero, homo or bi?"

"Bisexual means 'likes two genders'. Only male and female. If you're attracted to people who aren't male or female then you're pansexual.

Some people aren't attracted to those who are bigender, third, fluid, queer or trans. They are heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual."

The traditional hetero, homo and bisexual labels by definition only suffice to indentify whether or or not a particular person finds either or both traditional male/female genders attractive.

I prefer to simply state that pansexual people don't consider gender at all in determining whether or not they find another person attractive, so the sexual connotations of the traditional paradigm are irrelevant for them.

It's redundant to call yourself bisexual and state that you find both men and women attractive, if you don't recognise the male and female (or any other) genders in making that determination.

In so doing, you run the risk of people presuming that you don't find other genders attractive, and some people prefer to not be so immediately restrictive.

Fun fact by the way Captain Condescension: putting things in inverted commas and referring to people who have a different opinion than you as pseudointellectuals, doesn't actual serve to strengthen your position/weaken theirs.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wouldn't meet TV's for sex

I like women. I like men.

I like men to BE men.

So, when dressed, there would be no attraction as you are a man looking and maybe acting like a woman.

When not dressed, I find guys that do dress regularly take away some of the physical manliness to 'ease' the times they do dress e.g. shave facial hair, shave body hair, use vanity products etc

In a man, none of that is attractive to me.

So it will always be a non starter for me.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And bisexual people do consider gender when finding people attractive? Really? And resorting to calling people names who have a difference of opinion hardly helps your case does it

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I agree and can understand the difficulties with gender confusion etc, well to a point anyway as I too have never been in that position. But to suggest that people who are bi sexual cannot be attracted to people who are 'gender fluid' and can only be attracted to people who are either defined solely as male or female is ridiculous. In any state of mind that you are in, the attraction to any other person can be described as hetero, homo or bi. To be gender fluid and attracted to someone else who is gender fluid doesn't change that or make it something different. Now where's me coffee

Ok I see your point now. This makes sense.

I still think people can choose whatever label they like but I think I understand what you're saying.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem is we all have to fit into some sort of category for the site to work.

The endless list that could be made to suit everyone just isn't feasible in a search engine.

It's probably best for the op to list themselves as whatever they feel will gain the most attention. Then in profile text explain what they desire from the site.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olfcartweaselCouple
over a year ago

Melrose

"And bisexual people do consider gender when finding people attractive? Really? And resorting to calling people names who have a difference of opinion hardly helps your case does it"

Impressively, the post *directly* above yours disproves your point.

Some folk who are bi are only interested in manly men, or womanly women.

Since you're quite content to tell people they're wrong for expressing anything more complicated than that, if "bi" is "likes manly men and womanly women", where do you put someone interested in womanly men or manly women? And if you'd say they're bi too, how do you differentiate?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And bisexual people do consider gender when finding people attractive? Really? And resorting to calling people names who have a difference of opinion hardly helps your case does it

Impressively, the post *directly* above yours disproves your point.

Some folk who are bi are only interested in manly men, or womanly women.

You don't. And why would you need to?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olfcartweaselCouple
over a year ago

Melrose

"You don't. And why would you need to? "

Because if you don't fall into the category of manly man or womanly woman, you want to present yourself properly and make sure your account gets shown to people interested in your kind of person?

Let's take Bad Santa as the example here, since he made it quite clear he likes people with strong binary gender definitions and is NOT interested in anyone in between. How should the site handle "my interests are like Bad Santa's" vs "my interests are like AdamMissbahaving?'s"? When creating your profile, how should it distinguish between "I think my profile should be shown to Bad Santa when they search" vs "I think my profile should be shown to AdamMissbahaving when they search"?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You don't. And why would you need to?

Because if you don't fall into the category of manly man or womanly woman, you want to present yourself properly and make sure your account gets shown to people interested in your kind of person?

Why don't they have categories for fat or skinny women only etc etc?, they are just preferences

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ady4ladyWoman
over a year ago

liverpool

Brilliant thread that has got my head hurting.

feel free to label me because im an old girl who has grown bored of the bi label...

i enjoy sex with men and wonen, i find guys that present as females very attractive .....when sex is involved i love the lady to be curvy and have boobs, which, if i had sex with a male presenting as a female, would be missing.

Im not attracted to females who are 'manly' ... but then if a female was presenting as male and looked the part then great. Bring it on.

I love girly girls, and portly men, i would have sex with a guy who presented well as a female, but my brain would need to adjust to the fact that the sex was going to be different to fem/fem. ( wouldnt need the same toys).

So...... my new label is ???

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Brilliant thread that has got my head hurting.

feel free to label me because im an old girl who has grown bored of the bi label...

Im not attracted to females who are 'manly' ... but then if a female was presenting as male and looked the part then great. Bring it on.

So...... my new label is ??? "

Exactly. Same as the old one

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *rixieswTV/TS
over a year ago

S.Westerly

I totally agree with the comments.

I am a very convincing TV but also told a very handsome man.

I am Bi Sexual and have no issues being blocked if that's not the requirement but my sex? Surely we can change that?

Trixie x

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Another thread where the small minded crawl out

OP, you're probably better off only meeting those who do tick that box. Less likely to stumble on the bigots.

Might want some photos too.

Why? How would he portray his 'pansexuality' with a photo?

And could you please explain to the narrow minded bigots just what exactly a 'pansexual' person actually does that is not covered by heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual?

Bisexual means 'likes two genders'. Only male and female. If you're attracted to people who aren't male or female then you're pansexual.

Some people aren't attracted to those who are bigender, third, fluid, queer or trans. They are heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual."

I was going to let this go but I'm sorry, just couldn't resist. You call yourself 'pansexual'and genderqueer and describe above what that means/entails etc, yet on another forum thread you say that you onlx date/have sex with bisexual guys. How can that be possible after what you've just said?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not really bisexual though. Bi means two, which infers I like both men and women. X

I'm pansexual, which means I'm attracted ( that doesn't necessarily just mean sexually) to the person regardless of gender. I see people as people and not just what anatomy they have.

Sorry but pansexual to me is same as bi sexual , feelings or no feelings... So basically you are a bisexual crossdresser who likes everything from cock to minge...sorted

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Another thread where the small minded crawl out

OP, you're probably better off only meeting those who do tick that box. Less likely to stumble on the bigots.

Might want some photos too.

Why? How would he portray his 'pansexuality' with a photo?

And could you please explain to the narrow minded bigots just what exactly a 'pansexual' person actually does that is not covered by heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual?

Bisexual means 'likes two genders'. Only male and female. If you're attracted to people who aren't male or female then you're pansexual.

Some people aren't attracted to those who are bigender, third, fluid, queer or trans. They are heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual.

All these,non labels for old labels are confusing me... Bi and greedy he is for sure...pansexual is a fancy word for ....sorry.....slut(on this site..in real life I would class it a tad differently )

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otgymfitanymoreCouple
over a year ago

pontefract

"To be honest I'm a little bored with bi/try/pan/sexuality confusion!

We are all grown ups and surely most of us are here to have new experiences?

If your sexual 'label' puts people off then surely they are to be avoided!

But yet you are forced into choosing a sexuality on this site!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bisexual only takes in account the physical sex of the person and not the gender that person presents themself. Although after having done some reading am even more confused what pansexuality actually means. For example it doesn't necessarily seem to cover people who are attracted to people who are feminine regardless of if that person was born and still is binary male i.e those attracted to Tv/Ts but who wouldn't meet a an undressed male. Obviously their not Hetro but they might argue neither are they bi as they have no attraction to another male. A MtF tv who only when dressed finds men attractive?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Morning everyone I'm the original OP. I can see this is causing s huge amount of debate. That I'm glad if as it's obviously got people thinking! However. Confusion, or even, dare I dare ignorance isn't good.

I've cut this from a internationally recognised lgbti site in order to try and give you all a clever understanding.

What is Pansexual?

"Pansexual is a term that has been growing in recent years as a way for people to better identify their sexual identity. The word Pansexual is derived from the Greek prefix pan, meaning "all". The term is reflective of those who feel they are sexually/emotionally/spiritually capable of falling in love with all genders.

Definition: Pansexuals have the capability of attraction to others regardless of their gender identity or biological sex. A pansexual could be open to someone who is male, female, transgender, intersex, or agendered/genderqueer.

Do Pansexuals like everyone?

Pansexual identified people have the physical/emotional/spiritual capability of falling in love or being with someone regardless of their gender. This doesn't mean they like everyone, and some Pansexuals do have physical preferences. The identity is used merely to express the openness and fluidity to people of all genders.

How is Pansexuality different from Polysexuality?

Pan means "all" while Poly means "many" and so there are some similar overlaps, a Polysexual may be attracted to some gender variant people but not have the capability or desire to be with some others. Pansexuals are open to any person regardless of their gender or sex.

Differences Between Bisexual and Pansexual.

There is some overlap when defining bisexual and pansexual orientation; however, there are important differences between the two identities.

DifferenceBetween.Net states that these differences are :

Bisexual people are attracted sexually and romantically to both males and females, and are capable of engaging in sensual relationships with either sex. Despite being able to form meaningful, lasting relationships with both sexes, bisexual individuals may, to a small or large degree, have a preference for one sex over the other.

Similarly, pansexual people may be sexually attracted to individuals who identify as male or female; however, they may also be attracted to those who identify as intersex, third-gender, androgynous, transsexual, or the many other sexual and gender identities.

The latter distinction is what draws the line between pansexuality and bisexuality. People who self-identify as pansexual do so with purpose, to express that they are able to be attracted to various gender and sexual identities, whether they fall within the gender binary or not.

Recognition of the existence of different genders and sexualities is a major aspect of pansexual identity. Pansexual people are bisexual, in-fact; however, bisexuality does not place the same emphasis on sexual and gender identity awareness, but more simply indicates attraction to the two (generally accepted) biological sexes.

The differences between the two sexual identities are undermined by the fact that some people who consider themselves pansexual identify themselves as bisexual out of convenience, as it’s a more widely known sexual identity. In addition, some people who consider themselves bisexual may be open to dating someone who falls outside the gender binary.

Self-perception, rather than objective sexuality, determines which sexual identity an individual chooses to embrace. Simply being attracted to both biological sexes does not mean one considers oneself bisexual. In fact, many people at one time or another will have some romantic or sexual experience or feelings toward each sex, though, most would not embrace the bisexual label. Similarly, being attracted to people who embrace varied identities does not mean that individual will identify as pansexual.

There are few organizations which are geared solely for those who identify as pansexual, and many bisexual organizations include alternative identities such as: pansexual, omnisexual, multisexual, and other non-monosexualities, so representation and visibility likely also play a part in how people choose to self-identify.

There is some controversy over the two labels, as some in the bisexual community feel as though the pansexual label is a form of bisexual erasure and that the bisexual identity is already inclusive of those who have an attraction to those who fall anywhere along the gender continuum and outside of it.

There is a feeling that pansexual people are simply avoiding the bisexual label due to the stigmas associated with it (that bisexual people are simply greedy and promiscuous, and spread disease among both the heterosexual and homosexual communities). Conversely, many in the pansexual community feel as though these beliefs are forms of prejudice and pansexual erasure.

Not only those who identify as biologically male or female identify as bisexual, the gender identities of people who use and feel comfortable with this label vary.

The pansexual label; however, is more accommodating for those, regardless of their own gender identity, who sometimes do not fit neatly into the male or female genders, for example, when people who are engaged in a homosexual or heterosexual relationship and their partner transitions from male-to-female or female-to-male. Although, some choose to take on change their sexual identity according to the gender to which their partner has transitioned, an increasing number have chosen to self-label as pansexual, queer, or one of the other non-monosexual identities.

The pansexual identity is much more accommodating to the coupling of individuals who embrace various sexual and gender identities.

Many people strongly identify as either bisexual or pansexual, and never use the labels interchangeably. Each community is represented by its own flag, set of colors, and general ideologies."

I just would like to close by saying one thing. For those of you who aren't as accepting as others with regards to this stop for s moment and consider your own experience over who you are.

Think about when you haven't been accepted due to your perceived "lifestyle" choice, and how it made you feel. Perhaps you've never experienced any form of discrimination or hurtful things said. In a utopia that's how it should be. We don't live in one though. Far from it.

All I ask is to just take time consider your own feeling if roles was reversed, and transpose them briefly over your own emotions. It would make more people connect and make for a safer and happier world!

XXX

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thanks. Clear as mud then

Whoever wrote that doesn't seem to know what they're on about either

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ady4ladyWoman
over a year ago

liverpool

Thanks OP.

That certainly gives a good explanation although i guess the only way to answer the question of preference on here is just to ask !

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thanks OP for that info and Crewe24u your reply comes across as condescending which I don't if is your intention or not. You have your view and have others have theirs. Further debate doesn't seem like will change people from theirs so live and let live as far more important things then whether someone is pansexual, gender fluid or hetromet

exosexual

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Condescending? Maybe, I dunno. But the people who have posted on this thread alone claiming to be pansexual or trying to explain what it is have all pretty much come out with different explanations as to what it is. And the long winded post lifted from the internet covers everything without actually saying anything or making any clear distinctions between anything.

Anyway, from now on I would like to be identified as Supersexual. Thank you

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Condescending? Maybe, I dunno. But the people who have posted on this thread alone claiming to be pansexual or trying to explain what it is have all pretty much come out with different explanations as to what it is. And the long winded post lifted from the internet covers everything without actually saying anything or making any clear distinctions between anything.

Anyway, from now on I would like to be identified as Supersexual. Thank you

You'll have to explain what it means and if we agree then you can use it....

Just joking if that is the description that suits you best then by all means it's a free world and not everyone fits comfortably into pre-existing pigeon holes

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe it's about time fabswingers kicked out all the singles of all sexual persuasions, then we wouldn't have to worry about who's feelings were being hurt because their particular pigeon hole wasn't being pandered to.. Put up, or push off.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Maybe it's about time fabswingers kicked out all the singles of all sexual persuasions, then we wouldn't have to worry about who's feelings were being hurt because their particular pigeon hole wasn't being pandered to.. Put up, or push off."

I am with you on that one. Only leave the asexuals on. Wouldn't even need to define male or female as nobody is going to do anything with anyone anyway then

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just one pigeon hole. Human. Then use your profile for details..

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Just one pigeon hole. Human. Then use your profile for details.."

Can you keep your mind off holes for a minute and stick to the topic

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just one pigeon hole. Human. Then use your profile for details.."

But then no one would fit in it as it's a pigeon hole and not a human hole

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Another thread where the small minded crawl out

OP, you're probably better off only meeting those who do tick that box. Less likely to stumble on the bigots.

Might want some photos too.

Why? How would he portray his 'pansexuality' with a photo?

And could you please explain to the narrow minded bigots just what exactly a 'pansexual' person actually does that is not covered by heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual?

Bisexual means 'likes two genders'. Only male and female. If you're attracted to people who aren't male or female then you're pansexual.

Some people aren't attracted to those who are bigender, third, fluid, queer or trans. They are heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual.

I'm only attracted to men who will sleep with people other than cis women. On this site, that is defined as bisexual. Sometimes I use the language of this site, sometimes I use language that is more comfortable to me. I don't always want to fight the battles and face the pisstaking - like on this thread.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What about genderqueer couples like myself and one of my partners? I mean we're a couple so therefore should be here, but we still don't fit into the boxes.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"I like people.

If I find someone attractive, I find them attractive. It doesn't matter if they have a penis or if they have tits (or both!) I like both.

I don't know what that makes me. I've always ticked the bisexual box because I like having sex with people who have a penis and people who have tits.

I'm not that bothered about labels.

OP, I wouldn't be put off meeting you. There has to be an attraction for me, personality/chemistry/appearance are a factor. Gender makes no odds to me.

It obviously makes you 'pansexual' don't you know

Well, according to pseudo intellectuals on here who jump on 'trendy' bandwagons without thinking things through, or deluded attention seelking female pop stars, oops, can I call them female

This is what makes you a bigot.

Not your belief, however closed-minded and intolerant it is, but the hateful way you express it.

I suggest you decide not to meet pansexual people, (if any would even be interested), on the basis that you are clearly not on the same wavelength, and leave them to live their lives in the way they choose.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

What about genderqueer couples like myself and one of my partners? I mean we're a couple so therefore should be here, but we still don't fit into the boxes."

Meh. Who wants to fit in the boxes defined by closed-minded norms?

I'm extremely proud to be different and even more so on threads like this.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To be honest I'm a little bored with bi/try/pan/sexuality confusion!

We are all grown ups and surely most of us are here to have new experiences?

If your sexual 'label' puts people off then surely they are to be avoided!

But yet you are forced into choosing a sexuality on this site!"

True

But can't we just fuck who we fancy at the time?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Gender fluid , I assume were not talking spunk and pussy juice here

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Gender fluid , I assume were not talking spunk and pussy juice here

No, its about water-based lubrication

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *hristine and MarieCouple (FF)
over a year ago

Somewhere north of Spalding

This site can't even get it's head round the difference between TV and TS, (not even the same gender) so you have no hope of being recognised as gender fluid. Stop worrying about those who don't understand or just don't want to, and talk to people who are interested x M

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What about genderqueer couples like myself and one of my partners? I mean we're a couple so therefore should be here, but we still don't fit into the boxes.

Meh. Who wants to fit in the boxes defined by closed-minded norms?

I'm extremely proud to be different and even more so on threads like this."

Closed minded morons? Doesn't that make you a bigot of this thread too? And I really don't mind what people call themselves or what gender they claim to be but if you cannot see the flaws in the explanations given as to what this pansexuality is supposed to be then I think its you who needs to open her mind and not blindly support the people you think you should to appear 'different'. Its strange isn't it that the people who have poured most scorn on the term pansexual on this thread seem to have been the tv's yet I notice that you have made no comment to them. Wonder why that is?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Why are people so hung up on labels whether it's norm labels or different labels.

I couldn't give a toss all I'm interested in is if they like me and want to shag me.

But if everyone else is having a label I want one as its my right and should be respected

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *parkybunnyCouple
over a year ago

Zurich. NOT London.

"I like people.

If I find someone attractive, I find them attractive. It doesn't matter if they have a penis or if they have tits (or both!) I like both.

I don't know what that makes me. I've always ticked the bisexual box because I like having sex with people who have a penis and people who have tits.

I'm not that bothered about labels.

OP, I wouldn't be put off meeting you. There has to be an attraction for me, personality/chemistry/appearance are a factor. Gender makes no odds to me.

This, for me it's about the person, some people i like, some I don't, gender has never been important.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Might want some photos too.

Why? How would he portray his 'pansexuality' with a photo?

As for this. Really?

I meant having pics on their profile.

Simple."

Actually I think it may help!

I have no problem meeting bi men and have friends on here who are tv's but wouldn't be attracted to them at all in their female persona!

Therefore I'd suggest the op posts pictures in both his male and female clothing etc - so that anyone meeting him/her can say which they wish to meet, if that makes sense? X

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ivnwcplCouple
over a year ago

liverpool

"hi everyone. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this please?

Most who contact me are guy wanting to meet Katz not Jase. I guess my profile name doesn't help. Lol. Just wish more would read my profile!

Xxx

Afraid I Would you be deterred from contacting or meeting you if you where a TV or Gender Fluid

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irceWoman
over a year ago

Gloucester

"Think they call that Gender Queer horrid name but that's government for you .

Genderqueer is different to gender fluid. It's not a horrible name that the government made up, it's a name that was adopted by those of us who identify as genderqueer."

Whatever

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What's with all the labels these days. My problem is there are soooo many and they are used to describe people in so much detail. I preferred the days when we had basic labels and then you had a nice long chat and got to know each others little ways that way.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

Post new Message to Thread