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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? " No, he isn’t gay just because of that. Sexual act between male and trans girl isn’t gay act itself as well. | |||
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"I think sexual orientation is about sex. So yes I'd say gay/bi. Other people think sexual orientation is now about gender so they might not see any difference. It really only matters what the people involved thing though and if they're happy." I think the clue is in the word 'sexual' but don't forget the pan-sexuals  | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? " if they both enjoy it who cares? | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? " If the trans female has a pussy and tits, a man having sex with her is not gay. A trans female is a female... | |||
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"I think sexual orientation is about sex. So yes I'd say gay/bi. Other people think sexual orientation is now about gender so they might not see any difference. It really only matters what the people involved thing though and if they're happy. I think the clue is in the word 'sexual' but don't forget the pan-sexuals "Stonewall redefined sexual orientation to be about gender not sex. I don't agree with their definition (and suspect you don't either) but some people think otherwise. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? If the trans female has a pussy and tits, a man having sex with her is not gay. A trans female is a female..." So defining people entirely by genitals? | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? If the trans female has a pussy and tits, a man having sex with her is not gay. A trans female is a female... So defining people entirely by genitals?" Transsexual, penis and breasts? | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? If the trans female has a pussy and tits, a man having sex with her is not gay. A trans female is a female... So defining people entirely by genitals?" Is that not the whole point of a man getting his penis and testicles removed in order to have a female pussy and breasts .. Because he wants to be Female... I am not defining anyone by their genitals... | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? If the trans female has a pussy and tits, a man having sex with her is not gay. A trans female is a female... So defining people entirely by genitals? Is that not the whole point of a man getting his penis and testicles removed in order to have a female pussy and breasts .. Because he wants to be Female... I am not defining anyone by their genitals..." Is being female = tits/pussy? You literally just said that. I'm a bit bemused. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? If the trans female has a pussy and tits, a man having sex with her is not gay. A trans female is a female... So defining people entirely by genitals? Is that not the whole point of a man getting his penis and testicles removed in order to have a female pussy and breasts .. Because he wants to be Female... I am not defining anyone by their genitals..." A more than slightly reductive explanation 
My trans son has no desire to have surgery to construct a penis. One's gender is not solely about genitals | |||
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"Who gives a crap if you think he's gay or not? What matters is do you think he's has lots of unprotected sex with other people. If you have a gut feeling he has avoid like the plague. Your health is worth more than any gender nonsense." Who mentioned unprotected sex? | |||
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"'One's gender is not solely about genitals' Exactly and succinctly put. "Don't you mean "gender identity"? I am not sure why you and others are having a go at me. | |||
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"'One's gender is not solely about genitals' Exactly and succinctly put.
Don't you mean "gender identity"?
I am not sure why you and others are having a go at me.
"I asked a question. I don't know why you think I am attacking you. | |||
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"'One's gender is not solely about genitals' Exactly and succinctly put.
Don't you mean "gender identity"?
I am not sure why you and others are having a go at me.
"I'm not having a go, just pointing out that there's more to a person-whatever their gender-than their genitals | |||
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"'One's gender is not solely about genitals' Exactly and succinctly put.
Don't you mean "gender identity"?
I am not sure why you and others are having a go at me.
"I apologise if it came across as if I was aiming my comment directly at you. That was not my intent and I should have been clearer in what I meant. And your right it could also be said as 'gender identity is not solely about genitals'. | |||
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"I find that I'm attracted to feminine bodies, and looks. What's between their legs isn't what I look for, it's the feminine presentation and mentality. I do also enjoy a female with male genitalia, arguably more than with female genitalia. I wouldn't say it's gay, as the sight of a man's face and body does nothing for me unless it's presented as feminine. Gave up trying to put a word to it a long time ago. Tldr: I like the female form, but also enjoy a cock." Would that not be bi/pan sexual? | |||
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"I find that I'm attracted to feminine bodies, and looks. What's between their legs isn't what I look for, it's the feminine presentation and mentality. I do also enjoy a female with male genitalia, arguably more than with female genitalia. I wouldn't say it's gay, as the sight of a man's face and body does nothing for me unless it's presented as feminine. Gave up trying to put a word to it a long time ago. Tldr: I like the female form, but also enjoy a cock." Androphilia describes sexual attraction to men or masculinity; gynephilia describes the sexual attraction to women or femininity.  | |||
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"Gynephilia...I think that's the word then "Yes attracted to feminine | |||
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"snd trans females YOU'RE STRAIGHT" Personally disagree with this, but I don’t think it really matters. So long as you all consent and find it hot then fuck who you like. | |||
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"snd trans females YOU'RE STRAIGHT Personally disagree with this, but I don’t think it really matters. So long as you all consent and find it hot then fuck who you like. " Unless your basing it all on genitalia... what if the person you like is intersex but female presenting? Does that make you gay? Absolutely not. | |||
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"snd trans females YOU'RE STRAIGHT Personally disagree with this, but I don’t think it really matters. So long as you all consent and find it hot then fuck who you like. Unless your basing it all on genitalia... what if the person you like is intersex but female presenting? Does that make you gay? Absolutely not. " I’m basing it on the biological markers. For me if a guy is happy to play with a trans female then he’s bi/curious/pan. | |||
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"snd trans females YOU'RE STRAIGHT Personally disagree with this, but I don’t think it really matters. So long as you all consent and find it hot then fuck who you like. Unless your basing it all on genitalia... what if the person you like is intersex but female presenting? Does that make you gay? Absolutely not. I’m basing it on the biological markers. For me if a guy is happy to play with a trans female then he’s bi/curious/pan." Nope, I don't know a single guy who is solely attracted to women cis and trans that identifies as znything but straight. Everyone has an opinion. Some people are wrong | |||
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"snd trans females YOU'RE STRAIGHT Personally disagree with this, but I don’t think it really matters. So long as you all consent and find it hot then fuck who you like. Unless your basing it all on genitalia... what if the person you like is intersex but female presenting? Does that make you gay? Absolutely not. I’m basing it on the biological markers. For me if a guy is happy to play with a trans female then he’s bi/curious/pan. Nope, I don't know a single guy who is solely attracted to women cis and trans that identifies as znything but straight. Everyone has an opinion. Some people are wrong "Apologies, but the first paragraph didn’t make much sense to me. You’re more than entitled to disagree. | |||
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"snd trans females YOU'RE STRAIGHT Personally disagree with this, but I don’t think it really matters. So long as you all consent and find it hot then fuck who you like. Unless your basing it all on genitalia... what if the person you like is intersex but female presenting? Does that make you gay? Absolutely not. I’m basing it on the biological markers. For me if a guy is happy to play with a trans female then he’s bi/curious/pan. Nope, I don't know a single guy who is solely attracted to women cis and trans that identifies as znything but straight. Everyone has an opinion. Some people are wrong
Apologies, but the first paragraph didn’t make much sense to me.
You’re more than entitled to disagree. "I'm rushing and typing. I do disagree wholeheartedly. As a Trans woman all my bfs/partners have identified as straight. If a straight man enjoys his partner using a strap on to reach his g spot is he bi? Bi means you're attracted to both men and women. Which would indicate you believe trans women aren't complete women, but partly male. Kinda transphobic... sorry if I've misunderstood and for my awful grammar but I respectively disagree. | |||
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"I'm rushing and typing. I do disagree wholeheartedly. As a Trans woman all my bfs/partners have identified as straight. If a straight man enjoys his partner using a strap on to reach his g spot is he bi? Bi means you're attracted to both men and women. Which would indicate you believe trans women aren't complete women, but partly male. Kinda transphobic... sorry if I've misunderstood and for my awful grammar but I respectively disagree." I don’t doubt they do/did. It’s the opposite for male friends. I don’t get the logic regarding the strapon, but no as it’s a biological female using. There is NOTHING transphobic in anything I’ve said. You’d have to define what you mean by a “complete woman” if you wanted me to answer in good faith. Don’t think there’s too much wrong with your grammar tbh and we don’t have to agree, just both be civil. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? " Why would it make him gay? Even she was pre op And he was interested playing with her cock, He may still like women too so wouldn’t automatically make him gay. A guy can also be attracted to a guy and still not be gay as he may be into women too. Yes it happens.. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? Why would it make him gay? Even she was pre op And he was interested playing with her cock, He may still like women too so wouldn’t automatically make him gay. A guy can also be attracted to a guy and still not be gay as he may be into women too. Yes it happens.. " That was my point, we have the same opinion | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? Why would it make him gay? Even she was pre op And he was interested playing with her cock, He may still like women too so wouldn’t automatically make him gay. A guy can also be attracted to a guy and still not be gay as he may be into women too. Yes it happens.. That was my point, we have the same opinion" | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? Why would it make him gay? Even she was pre op And he was interested playing with her cock, He may still like women too so wouldn’t automatically make him gay. A guy can also be attracted to a guy and still not be gay as he may be into women too. Yes it happens.. " Would you say they were straight, or something else? | |||
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"I'm rushing and typing. I do disagree wholeheartedly. As a Trans woman all my bfs/partners have identified as straight. If a straight man enjoys his partner using a strap on to reach his g spot is he bi? Bi means you're attracted to both men and women. Which would indicate you believe trans women aren't complete women, but partly male. Kinda transphobic... sorry if I've misunderstood and for my awful grammar but I respectively disagree. I don’t doubt they do/did. It’s the opposite for male friends. I don’t get the logic regarding the strapon, but no as it’s a biological female using. There is NOTHING transphobic in anything I’ve said. You’d have to define what you mean by a “complete woman” if you wanted me to answer in good faith. Don’t think there’s too much wrong with your grammar tbh and we don’t have to agree, just both be civil. "Talking about biological markers, as an indication of how your sexual attraction is categorised when talking about trans women is transphobic in my humble opinion. I'm happy to agree, to disagree. | |||
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" Talking about biological markers, as an indication of how your sexual attraction is categorised when talking about trans women is transphobic in my humble opinion. I'm happy to agree, to disagree. "Can you please explain what you mean? If you answer my question about what you mean by a “complete woman” it will likely help clear up any confusion. | |||
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"I don't really understand why people care. Have sex with people you're attracted to and have fun with. " Boom! Nailed it. | |||
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"I don't really understand why people care. Have sex with people you're attracted to and have fun with. Boom! Nailed it. "I agree | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? " It will depend on people's perspective. In my mind a post op trans woman is a woman. In this case sex with a straight man is not bi or gay. Pre op, is less simple because a straight man is probably less likely view accept them as a woman from a sex point of view. At the end of the day, I really don't see that it matters, as long as both parties enjoy themselves. Nita | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? It will depend on people's perspective. In my mind a post op trans woman is a woman. In this case sex with a straight man is not bi or gay. Pre op, is less simple because a straight man is probably less likely view accept them as a woman from a sex point of view. At the end of the day, I really don't see that it matters, as long as both parties enjoy themselves. Nita " While I don’t think we completely agree we most certainly do on your last point. Live and let fuck I say! | |||
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"???????? why do you care " Opened up an interesting debate. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? It will depend on people's perspective. In my mind a post op trans woman is a woman. In this case sex with a straight man is not bi or gay. Pre op, is less simple because a straight man is probably less likely view accept them as a woman from a sex point of view. At the end of the day, I really don't see that it matters, as long as both parties enjoy themselves. Nita " All my partners have identified as straight and my genitalia did not matter to any of them. Saying a post op trans woman is a woman bit it's more complicated with pre op? Do you know some of the reasons people don't have that surgery. It doesn't make us any less of a woman. Wow | |||
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"Gynephilia...I think that's the word then "Sorry to butt in but to me cock is very masculine though? | |||
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" All my partners have identified as straight and my genitalia did not matter to any of them. Saying a post op trans woman is a woman bit it's more complicated with pre op? Do you know some of the reasons people don't have that surgery. It doesn't make us any less of a woman. Wow" A lot of people don’t agree. | |||
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" All my partners have identified as straight and my genitalia did not matter to any of them. Saying a post op trans woman is a woman bit it's more complicated with pre op? Do you know some of the reasons people don't have that surgery. It doesn't make us any less of a woman. Wow A lot of people don’t agree." A lot of people are wrong  | |||
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"'One's gender is not solely about genitals' Exactly and succinctly put.
Don't you mean "gender identity"?
I am not sure why you and others are having a go at me.
This subject is like stepping into a minefield l reckon , everyone has different views ,no definite correct answer, l don't try to understand it ,l just live it.attractiveness is not easily worked out , still ,its a good question! Certainly sparks some interesting answers!
" | |||
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"It’s such a mine field but what happens behind closed doors stays behind closed doors. Not sure it needs labelling to be honest as it’s not fair on the trans.." I agree I think needing to label it can be unnecessary but if I was forced I would just say pansexual I think if you have a connection and feel like playing go for it | |||
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" All my partners have identified as straight and my genitalia did not matter to any of them. Saying a post op trans woman is a woman bit it's more complicated with pre op? Do you know some of the reasons people don't have that surgery. It doesn't make us any less of a woman. Wow A lot of people don’t agree. A lot of people are wrong "What bit are they wrong on? | |||
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" All my partners have identified as straight and my genitalia did not matter to any of them. Saying a post op trans woman is a woman bit it's more complicated with pre op? Do you know some of the reasons people don't have that surgery. It doesn't make us any less of a woman. Wow A lot of people don’t agree. A lot of people are wrong
What bit are they wrong on?"Someone has made a claim. You say you disagree with the claim. The burden is on you to explain why you disagree. The Cambridge Dictionary defines "woman" as "an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth". There's nothing about surgery or genitals in there. | |||
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" All my partners have identified as straight and my genitalia did not matter to any of them. Saying a post op trans woman is a woman bit it's more complicated with pre op? Do you know some of the reasons people don't have that surgery. It doesn't make us any less of a woman. Wow A lot of people don’t agree." A lot of people don't you're right like terfs. | |||
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" All my partners have identified as straight and my genitalia did not matter to any of them. Saying a post op trans woman is a woman bit it's more complicated with pre op? Do you know some of the reasons people don't have that surgery. It doesn't make us any less of a woman. Wow A lot of people don’t agree. A lot of people are wrong
What bit are they wrong on?
Someone has made a claim. You say you disagree with the claim. The burden is on you to explain why you disagree.
The Cambridge Dictionary defines "woman" as "an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth".
There's nothing about surgery or genitals in there."Perfectly put | |||
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" All my partners have identified as straight and my genitalia did not matter to any of them. Saying a post op trans woman is a woman bit it's more complicated with pre op? Do you know some of the reasons people don't have that surgery. It doesn't make us any less of a woman. Wow A lot of people don’t agree. A lot of people are wrong
What bit are they wrong on?
Someone has made a claim. You say you disagree with the claim. The burden is on you to explain why you disagree.
The Cambridge Dictionary defines "woman" as "an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth".
There's nothing about surgery or genitals in there."The burden is on them to prove the claim, not me to disprove it. I disagree with being called a transphobe and am waiting on said person explaining why and what they mean by a “complete woman”, but you’ve answered in good faith so I’ll do the same.
I see trans women as that, trans women. I’m not sure why that’s deemed as transphobic. Personally I think it’s something to be proud of. You ladies have had a hell of a journey, sacrificed lots, put in some seriously hard work and have been super brave. Isn’t that why there’s trans pride, the “t” in LGBTQIA etc?
Also yourself and the other lass call yourselves “trans women” and have set your bios as such. | |||
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" All my partners have identified as straight and my genitalia did not matter to any of them. Saying a post op trans woman is a woman bit it's more complicated with pre op? Do you know some of the reasons people don't have that surgery. It doesn't make us any less of a woman. Wow A lot of people don’t agree. A lot of people don't you're right like terfs." Thankfully I’m not one of them. | |||
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" All my partners have identified as straight and my genitalia did not matter to any of them. Saying a post op trans woman is a woman bit it's more complicated with pre op? Do you know some of the reasons people don't have that surgery. It doesn't make us any less of a woman. Wow A lot of people don’t agree. A lot of people are wrong
What bit are they wrong on?
Someone has made a claim. You say you disagree with the claim. The burden is on you to explain why you disagree.
The Cambridge Dictionary defines "woman" as "an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth".
There's nothing about surgery or genitals in there.
The burden is on them to prove the claim, not me to disprove it.
I disagree with being called a transphobe and am waiting on said person explaining why and what they mean by a “complete woman”, but you’ve answered in good faith so I’ll do the same.
I see trans women as that, trans women. I’m not sure why that’s deemed as transphobic. Personally I think it’s something to be proud of. You ladies have had a hell of a journey, sacrificed lots, put in some seriously hard work and have been super brave. Isn’t that why there’s trans pride, the “t” in LGBTQIA etc?
Also yourself and the other lass call yourselves “trans women” and have set your bios as such. "Well said | |||
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"I just want to send hugs to the trans women reading this thread. Trans women are women. Saying a trans woman is less of a woman because she hasn’t had surgery is transphobic, whether you consider yourself to be transphobic or not. Back to the original question, i view sexuality as a spectrum, it’s not as black and white as being gay/bi/straight. If a man only fancies women (trans or otherwise), he’s straight. However there are more than 2 genders, creating an awful lot of grey areas. "Please do explain how I’m transphobic and point out clearly what I’ve said to give that opinion. You have no idea about my sexuality. It would be like me calling you biphobic, whether you consider yourself to be or not. You literally stated “I just want to send hugs to the trans women reading this thread.” By your own logic that must mean you’re transphobic, or you would simply refer to them as “women”. Stop trying to accuse everyone that respectfully disagrees of being some sort of phobe. | |||
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"I just want to send hugs to the trans women reading this thread. Trans women are women. Saying a trans woman is less of a woman because she hasn’t had surgery is transphobic, whether you consider yourself to be transphobic or not. Back to the original question, i view sexuality as a spectrum, it’s not as black and white as being gay/bi/straight. If a man only fancies women (trans or otherwise), he’s straight. However there are more than 2 genders, creating an awful lot of grey areas.
Please do explain how I’m transphobic and point out clearly what I’ve said to give that opinion.
You have no idea about my sexuality. It would be like me calling you biphobic, whether you consider yourself to be or not.
You literally stated “I just want to send hugs to the trans women reading this thread.” By your own logic that must mean you’re transphobic, or you would simply refer to them as “women”.
Stop trying to accuse everyone that respectfully disagrees of being some sort of phobe. "Your sexuality is irrelevant, no idea why you’ve brought that up. I’m sending love to trans women because there have been statements made in this thread that could be upsetting for them. Those statements would not necessarily be upsetting for cis women. It is not offensive to call a trans woman a trans woman, in the same way it’s not offensive to identify a woman as cis either. It IS offensive, and transphobic, to imply a trans woman is less of a woman based on whether she has had gender affirming surgery. Like I said before, just because you don’t like being called transphobic, doesn’t mean you aren’t being just that. Once again, sending love to those who might have been hurt by comments made here. Just not the transphobes | |||
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"I just want to send hugs to the trans women reading this thread. Trans women are women. Saying a trans woman is less of a woman because she hasn’t had surgery is transphobic, whether you consider yourself to be transphobic or not. Back to the original question, i view sexuality as a spectrum, it’s not as black and white as being gay/bi/straight. If a man only fancies women (trans or otherwise), he’s straight. However there are more than 2 genders, creating an awful lot of grey areas.
Please do explain how I’m transphobic and point out clearly what I’ve said to give that opinion.
You have no idea about my sexuality. It would be like me calling you biphobic, whether you consider yourself to be or not.
You literally stated “I just want to send hugs to the trans women reading this thread.” By your own logic that must mean you’re transphobic, or you would simply refer to them as “women”.
Stop trying to accuse everyone that respectfully disagrees of being some sort of phobe.
Your sexuality is irrelevant, no idea why you’ve brought that up.
I’m sending love to trans women because there have been statements made in this thread that could be upsetting for them. Those statements would not necessarily be upsetting for cis women. It is not offensive to call a trans woman a trans woman, in the same way it’s not offensive to identify a woman as cis either. It IS offensive, and transphobic, to imply a trans woman is less of a woman based on whether she has had gender affirming surgery. Like I said before, just because you don’t like being called transphobic, doesn’t mean you aren’t being just that.
Once again, sending love to those who might have been hurt by comments made here. Just not the transphobes "Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better | |||
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"Your sexuality is irrelevant, no idea why you’ve brought that up. I’m sending love to trans women because there have been statements made in this thread that could be upsetting for them. Those statements would not necessarily be upsetting for cis women. It is not offensive to call a trans woman a trans woman, in the same way it’s not offensive to identify a woman as cis either. It IS offensive, and transphobic, to imply a trans woman is less of a woman based on whether she has had gender affirming surgery. Like I said before, just because you don’t like being called transphobic, doesn’t mean you aren’t being just that. Once again, sending love to those who might have been hurt by comments made here. Just not the transphobes "It’s not irrelevant. My sexuality means I can’t possibly be transphobic. transphobic: adjective having or showing a dislike of or strong prejudice against transgender people. In what way does anything I’ve stated match that? I’d say quite the opposite. Why the need to call them trans women? Stop being biphobic! | |||
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"Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better "You’ve made spurious claims and haven’t entered the debate in good faith. | |||
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"I see the usual name calling if someone doesn't bow down to gender identity. No matter how carefully and diplomatically they word it. " I take it with a pinch of salt. The extremes from both sides always resort to name calling and never enter a debate in good faith. | |||
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"Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better
You’ve made spurious claims and haven’t entered the debate in good faith."You’ve had more than one person tell you you’re making transphobic comments. Nobody owes you their time to explain that, it’s your problem. Your sexuality is totally irrelevant, it almost sounds like you’re doing a “I can’t be racist, i have black friends!” I’m bi myself, and you’re embarrassing yourself by calling me biphobic. “I’m not a poo poo head, you are!” | |||
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"Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better
You’ve made spurious claims and haven’t entered the debate in good faith.
You’ve had more than one person tell you you’re making transphobic comments. Nobody owes you their time to explain that, it’s your problem.
Your sexuality is totally irrelevant, it almost sounds like you’re doing a “I can’t be racist, i have black friends!”
I’m bi myself, and you’re embarrassing yourself by calling me biphobic. “I’m not a poo poo head, you are!” "You’re biphobic. Nobody owes you their time to explain that, it’s your problem… I’m glad you see the absurdity in just accusing someone with no basis. I’m pansexual so please do explain again how I’m a transphobe? | |||
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"I see the usual name calling if someone doesn't bow down to gender identity. No matter how carefully and diplomatically they word it. I take it with a pinch of salt. The extremes from both sides always resort to name calling and never enter a debate in good faith. " Yes. Seen it too often. I will put my hand up as gender-critical. I won't try to put people down, attack or disrespect them nor be deliberately rude because of my beliefs. They're based on science and reality. | |||
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"I see the usual name calling if someone doesn't bow down to gender identity. No matter how carefully and diplomatically they word it. I take it with a pinch of salt. The extremes from both sides always resort to name calling and never enter a debate in good faith. Yes. Seen it too often. I will put my hand up as gender-critical. I won't try to put people down, attack or disrespect them nor be deliberately rude because of my beliefs. They're based on science and reality. " End thread perfect - ending | |||
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"Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better
You’ve made spurious claims and haven’t entered the debate in good faith.
You’ve had more than one person tell you you’re making transphobic comments. Nobody owes you their time to explain that, it’s your problem.
Your sexuality is totally irrelevant, it almost sounds like you’re doing a “I can’t be racist, i have black friends!”
I’m bi myself, and you’re embarrassing yourself by calling me biphobic. “I’m not a poo poo head, you are!”
You’re biphobic. Nobody owes you their time to explain that, it’s your problem…
I’m glad you see the absurdity in just accusing someone with no basis. I’m pansexual so please do explain again how I’m a transphobe?
"Again I’ll repeat - your sexuality, regardless of what that may be - has no bearing on whether or not you have said transphobic things. I really don’t know how many times or ways i can say that in order for you to understand. Who you fancy does not mean you’re incapable of being offensive. If I had the time and the energy, I’d scroll up and copy/paste the things you’ve said that are transphobic. I don’t, and i also get the distinct impression that no matter what anyone says, you’ve convinced yourself you aren’t being transphobic and that’s that. You’ve derailed the subject enough, I won’t be responding to you again | |||
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"Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better
You’ve made spurious claims and haven’t entered the debate in good faith.
You’ve had more than one person tell you you’re making transphobic comments. Nobody owes you their time to explain that, it’s your problem.
Your sexuality is totally irrelevant, it almost sounds like you’re doing a “I can’t be racist, i have black friends!”
I’m bi myself, and you’re embarrassing yourself by calling me biphobic. “I’m not a poo poo head, you are!”
You’re biphobic. Nobody owes you their time to explain that, it’s your problem…
I’m glad you see the absurdity in just accusing someone with no basis. I’m pansexual so please do explain again how I’m a transphobe?
Again I’ll repeat - your sexuality, regardless of what that may be - has no bearing on whether or not you have said transphobic things. I really don’t know how many times or ways i can say that in order for you to understand. Who you fancy does not mean you’re incapable of being offensive.
If I had the time and the energy, I’d scroll up and copy/paste the things you’ve said that are transphobic. I don’t, and i also get the distinct impression that no matter what anyone says, you’ve convinced yourself you aren’t being transphobic and that’s that.
You’ve derailed the subject enough, I won’t be responding to you again "The same defence most extremists on either side use. Chuck accusations put there, but refuse to back them up. I even gave you the dictionary definition previously and you couldn’t match that to anything I’ve stated. If sexuality doesn’t matter why did you feel the need to say you’re bi and that I’m apparently embarrassing myself? There’s absolutely NO need for name calling. A simple “agree to disagree” would suffice. | |||
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"Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better
You’ve made spurious claims and haven’t entered the debate in good faith."I don't wish to debate with people who aren't listening to hear, but are listening simply to reply. | |||
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"Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better
You’ve made spurious claims and haven’t entered the debate in good faith.
I don't wish to debate with people who aren't listening to hear, but are listening simply to reply."I’m reading and responding to pretty much every reply and doing so in good faith & respectfully. We have differing opinions that’s all, but some like yourself have felt the need to Chuck out insults. | |||
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"Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better
You’ve made spurious claims and haven’t entered the debate in good faith.
I don't wish to debate with people who aren't listening to hear, but are listening simply to reply.
I’m reading and responding to pretty much every reply and doing so in good faith & respectfully.
We have differing opinions that’s all, but some like yourself have felt the need to Chuck out insults."Why is it you'll gladly accept the dictionary definition of "transphobic" but not the dictionary definition of "woman"? We're either appealing to the dictionary as a source of objectivity and authority in this debate, or we're not. Personally I don't care if you're transphobic or not, that's not really what I'm on this thread for. Xx | |||
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"Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better
You’ve made spurious claims and haven’t entered the debate in good faith.
I don't wish to debate with people who aren't listening to hear, but are listening simply to reply.
I’m reading and responding to pretty much every reply and doing so in good faith & respectfully.
We have differing opinions that’s all, but some like yourself have felt the need to Chuck out insults.
Why is it you'll gladly accept the dictionary definition of "transphobic" but not the dictionary definition of "woman"?
We're either appealing to the dictionary as a source of objectivity and authority in this debate, or we're not.
Personally I don't care if you're transphobic or not, that's not really what I'm on this thread for. Xx"Apologies, but I’ll happily go off the dictionary definition of woman too, but then we’ll have to move to defining female: woman noun an adult female human being. I just think it’s unnecessary to chuck strong accusations like “transphobe” at people without backing up your claims. Also don’t like when people enter debates in bad faith. Myself and you likely won’t agree, but you’ve shown respect, acted in good faith and not chucked any labels at me. I massively appreciate and respect that, thanks. | |||
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"I see the usual name calling if someone doesn't bow down to gender identity. No matter how carefully and diplomatically they word it. I take it with a pinch of salt. The extremes from both sides always resort to name calling and never enter a debate in good faith. Yes. Seen it too often. I will put my hand up as gender-critical. I won't try to put people down, attack or disrespect them nor be deliberately rude because of my beliefs. They're based on science and reality. End thread perfect - ending "Because it suits your narrative? | |||
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"I see the usual name calling if someone doesn't bow down to gender identity. No matter how carefully and diplomatically they word it. I take it with a pinch of salt. The extremes from both sides always resort to name calling and never enter a debate in good faith. Yes. Seen it too often. I will put my hand up as gender-critical. I won't try to put people down, attack or disrespect them nor be deliberately rude because of my beliefs. They're based on science and reality. " No, they aren't. Medical and scientific organisations across the world recognise the existence of trans people, and support transition as the often the best way for people to live happy lives. That's the scientific consensus. | |||
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"Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better
You’ve made spurious claims and haven’t entered the debate in good faith.
I don't wish to debate with people who aren't listening to hear, but are listening simply to reply.
I’m reading and responding to pretty much every reply and doing so in good faith & respectfully.
We have differing opinions that’s all, but some like yourself have felt the need to Chuck out insults.
Why is it you'll gladly accept the dictionary definition of "transphobic" but not the dictionary definition of "woman"?
We're either appealing to the dictionary as a source of objectivity and authority in this debate, or we're not.
Personally I don't care if you're transphobic or not, that's not really what I'm on this thread for. Xx
Apologies, but I’ll happily go off the dictionary definition of woman too, but then we’ll have to move to defining female:
woman
noun
an adult female human being.
I just think it’s unnecessary to chuck strong accusations like “transphobe” at people without backing up your claims. Also don’t like when people enter debates in bad faith.
Myself and you likely won’t agree, but you’ve shown respect, acted in good faith and not chucked any labels at me. I massively appreciate and respect that, thanks.
"I'm sorry but that is not a good faith argument. You know the definition I cited earlier in this thread. For avoidance of doubt: an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/woman It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. This isn't an opinion. This is what the dictionary says. The point is that if we're to have this discussion, and you want to cite the dictionary to defend yourself against an accusation of transphobia, then women - trans or otherwise - should be able to cite it to defend an accusation of them not being a woman. | |||
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" I'm sorry but that is not a good faith argument. You know the definition I cited earlier in this thread. For avoidance of doubt: an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/woman It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. This isn't an opinion. This is what the dictionary says. The point is that if we're to have this discussion, and you want to cite the dictionary to defend yourself against an accusation of transphobia, then women - trans or otherwise - should be able to cite it to defend an accusation of them not being a woman." I’ve literally copied & pasted the Oxford definition, it was 100% in good faith. Here’s the Merriam definition too just in case: woman noun wom·?an 'wu?-m?n especially Southern 'wo- or 'w?- plural women 'wi-m?n Synonyms of woman 1 a : an adult female person b : a woman belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, membership, or occupation) —usually used in combination. I’ve no issue at all with people using dictionary definitions and have offered genuine & fair rebuttals. Most of the points I’ve made have been skipped over by people on here, I would say there’s way more bad faith. | |||
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"I see the usual name calling if someone doesn't bow down to gender identity. No matter how carefully and diplomatically they word it. I take it with a pinch of salt. The extremes from both sides always resort to name calling and never enter a debate in good faith. Yes. Seen it too often. I will put my hand up as gender-critical. I won't try to put people down, attack or disrespect them nor be deliberately rude because of my beliefs. They're based on science and reality. End thread perfect - ending
Because it suits your narrative? "No its because its true | |||
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"I see the usual name calling if someone doesn't bow down to gender identity. No matter how carefully and diplomatically they word it. I take it with a pinch of salt. The extremes from both sides always resort to name calling and never enter a debate in good faith. Yes. Seen it too often. I will put my hand up as gender-critical. I won't try to put people down, attack or disrespect them nor be deliberately rude because of my beliefs. They're based on science and reality. No, they aren't. Medical and scientific organisations across the world recognise the existence of trans people, and support transition as the often the best way for people to live happy lives. That's the scientific consensus. " Where have I denied that trans people exist? There is not consensus around gender identity. Sex matters. Don't conflate the two. | |||
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"I see the usual name calling if someone doesn't bow down to gender identity. No matter how carefully and diplomatically they word it. I take it with a pinch of salt. The extremes from both sides always resort to name calling and never enter a debate in good faith. Yes. Seen it too often. I will put my hand up as gender-critical. I won't try to put people down, attack or disrespect them nor be deliberately rude because of my beliefs. They're based on science and reality. No, they aren't. Medical and scientific organisations across the world recognise the existence of trans people, and support transition as the often the best way for people to live happy lives. That's the scientific consensus. Where have I denied that trans people exist? There is not consensus around gender identity. Sex matters. Don't conflate the two. " Glad to see you getting a bit of stick, after your earlier digs at me. | |||
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"It's rare I step into these kind of threads once they take a certain path but as a out Transwoman I just thought I would add my point of view. I have read through the comments and I can't see where KnKyCpl has made any Transphobic attacks on anyone. And I can't see where he/she has claimed Transwomen are 'lesser women'. I am proud to be a Transwoman. Am I different from a Cisgender woman? Obviously yes as I am Transgender and not Cisgender. Does that make me lesser? No, it just means I am different as I said. There are certain situation (such as some medical things) in which this difference is important, and some situations in which it is not (such as me needing to use the loo so I obviously use the women's toilets) Does sexuality have anything to do with me being Trans? No. Sexuality and gender are obviously different. Can a guy be straight and date a Transgender woman? Of course he can. Debate and discussion are good so long as all parties listen and keep it civil. It is a complicated subject and I don't expect all other Transwomen (can't speak for Transmen as I don't have that life experience) to agree with me or all Cisgender people to agree with me but this is the same with any debate isn't it. To repeat myself...are Transwomen women? Yes. Are Transwomen the same as Ciswomen? No. Again , personally, I am a Transwoman and bloody proud to be one as I have had a hell of time getting to where I am today. Hope some of that ramble made sense? And last of all I will leave you with this (I can't remember who wrote it , apologies) as it states my feelings better than my own words can. 'I am Transgender. I am not a fetish, or a perversion, or sick , or deluded, or pretending, or in a phase, or a dirty secret, or an experiment, or a lifestyle, or a project, or a punchline, or a political football, or a villain, or a danger, or an abomination, I am Transgender and I am me.' " Absolutely love that! Put it way more succinctly than I did. Sending the happiest of vibes! | |||
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"I see the usual name calling if someone doesn't bow down to gender identity. No matter how carefully and diplomatically they word it. I take it with a pinch of salt. The extremes from both sides always resort to name calling and never enter a debate in good faith. Yes. Seen it too often. I will put my hand up as gender-critical. I won't try to put people down, attack or disrespect them nor be deliberately rude because of my beliefs. They're based on science and reality. No, they aren't. Medical and scientific organisations across the world recognise the existence of trans people, and support transition as the often the best way for people to live happy lives. That's the scientific consensus. Where have I denied that trans people exist? There is not consensus around gender identity. Sex matters. Don't conflate the two. Glad to see you getting a bit of stick, after your earlier digs at me." I asked you a question about whether genitals defined sex. You can call that a dig if you like. I'd call that being a bit of a sensitive flower but you do you. | |||
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"It's rare I step into these kind of threads once they take a certain path but as a out Transwoman I just thought I would add my point of view. I have read through the comments and I can't see where KnKyCpl has made any Transphobic attacks on anyone. And I can't see where he/she has claimed Transwomen are 'lesser women'. I am proud to be a Transwoman. Am I different from a Cisgender woman? Obviously yes as I am Transgender and not Cisgender. Does that make me lesser? No, it just means I am different as I said. There are certain situation (such as some medical things) in which this difference is important, and some situations in which it is not (such as me needing to use the loo so I obviously use the women's toilets) Does sexuality have anything to do with me being Trans? No. Sexuality and gender are obviously different. Can a guy be straight and date a Transgender woman? Of course he can. Debate and discussion are good so long as all parties listen and keep it civil. It is a complicated subject and I don't expect all other Transwomen (can't speak for Transmen as I don't have that life experience) to agree with me or all Cisgender people to agree with me but this is the same with any debate isn't it. To repeat myself...are Transwomen women? Yes. Are Transwomen the same as Ciswomen? No. Again , personally, I am a Transwoman and bloody proud to be one as I have had a hell of time getting to where I am today. Hope some of that ramble made sense? And last of all I will leave you with this (I can't remember who wrote it , apologies) as it states my feelings better than my own words can. 'I am Transgender. I am not a fetish, or a perversion, or sick , or deluded, or pretending, or in a phase, or a dirty secret, or an experiment, or a lifestyle, or a project, or a punchline, or a political football, or a villain, or a danger, or an abomination, I am Transgender and I am me.' " I haven't seen that before. You're right, trans people are none of those things. | |||
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"….I am proud to be a Transwoman. Am I different from a Cisgender woman? Obviously yes as I am Transgender and not Cisgender. Does that make me lesser? No, it just means I am different as I said. There are certain situation (such as some medical things) in which this difference is important, and some situations in which it is not (such as me needing to use the loo so I obviously use the women's toilets) Does sexuality have anything to do with me being Trans? No. Sexuality and gender are obviously different. Can a guy be straight and date a Transgender woman? Of course he can. Debate and discussion are good so long as all parties listen and keep it civil. It is a complicated subject and I don't expect all other Transwomen (can't speak for Transmen as I don't have that life experience) to agree with me or all Cisgender people to agree with me but this is the same with any debate isn't it. To repeat myself...are Transwomen women? Yes. Are Transwomen the same as Ciswomen? No. Again , personally, I am a Transwoman and bloody proud to be one as I have had a hell of time getting to where I am today. " Hope it’s okay I’ve trimmed your message in the quote, didn’t want to fill up the entire thread with quotes so I just kept the bits I felt were particularly relevant 
I couldn’t agree more with your sentiment and you’ve put it far more elegantly than my rambling efforts do.
I’m fully aware that there are things in my biology that will forever remain male and I’m okay with that. I don’t hide it and I don’t hide who I am or not journey. I am biologically different from a cis woman ( I understand the discomfort with that term but whatever term you do prefer, you know what I mean ) and that’s just life but does it make me any less of a woman?
In my view no it doesn’t, but again I understand other’s right to disagree but let’s keep it civil. You don’t have to agree with me and I won’t force you to, but at least be nice about it. | |||
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" I couldn’t agree more with your sentiment and you’ve put it far more elegantly than my rambling efforts do. I’m fully aware that there are things in my biology that will forever remain male and I’m okay with that. I don’t hide it and I don’t hide who I am or not journey. I am biologically different from a cis woman ( I understand the discomfort with that term but whatever term you do prefer, you know what I mean ) and that’s just life but does it make me any less of a woman? In my view no it doesn’t, but again I understand other’s right to disagree but let’s keep it civil. You don’t have to agree with me and I won’t force you to, but at least be nice about it. "Nailed it matey. | |||
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" I couldn’t agree more with your sentiment and you’ve put it far more elegantly than my rambling efforts do. I’m fully aware that there are things in my biology that will forever remain male and I’m okay with that. I don’t hide it and I don’t hide who I am or not journey. I am biologically different from a cis woman ( I understand the discomfort with that term but whatever term you do prefer, you know what I mean ) and that’s just life but does it make me any less of a woman? In my view no it doesn’t, but again I understand other’s right to disagree but let’s keep it civil. You don’t have to agree with me and I won’t force you to, but at least be nice about it.
Nailed it matey. "I agree | |||
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"I just want to send hugs to the trans women reading this thread. Trans women are women. Saying a trans woman is less of a woman because she hasn’t had surgery is transphobic, whether you consider yourself to be transphobic or not. Back to the original question, i view sexuality as a spectrum, it’s not as black and white as being gay/bi/straight. If a man only fancies women (trans or otherwise), he’s straight. However there are more than 2 genders, creating an awful lot of grey areas. "Totally agree x | |||
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"Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better
You’ve made spurious claims and haven’t entered the debate in good faith.
I don't wish to debate with people who aren't listening to hear, but are listening simply to reply.
I’m reading and responding to pretty much every reply and doing so in good faith & respectfully.
We have differing opinions that’s all, but some like yourself have felt the need to Chuck out insults."Sorry what insults have I "chucked" out? | |||
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"Appreciate you and I couldn't have said it better
You’ve made spurious claims and haven’t entered the debate in good faith.
I don't wish to debate with people who aren't listening to hear, but are listening simply to reply.
I’m reading and responding to pretty much every reply and doing so in good faith & respectfully.
We have differing opinions that’s all, but some like yourself have felt the need to Chuck out insults.
Sorry what insults have I "chucked" out?"Accused me of being transphobic, but unable/unwilling to back it up. You’ve purposefully dodged the majority of my rebuttals and are cherry picking what you respond to, that’s not how debates work. | |||
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" I couldn’t agree more with your sentiment and you’ve put it far more elegantly than my rambling efforts do. I’m fully aware that there are things in my biology that will forever remain male and I’m okay with that. I don’t hide it and I don’t hide who I am or not journey. I am biologically different from a cis woman ( I understand the discomfort with that term but whatever term you do prefer, you know what I mean ) and that’s just life but does it make me any less of a woman? In my view no it doesn’t, but again I understand other’s right to disagree but let’s keep it civil. You don’t have to agree with me and I won’t force you to, but at least be nice about it.
Nailed it matey.
I agree " xx | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? " yes he is because trans still have xy chromosome. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? yes he is because trans still have xy chromosome. " Who would you rather fuck? Brigitta Brezovac or Kim Petras? No agenda here, I'm just super curious as to which you think would make you gayer... | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? yes he is because trans still have xy chromosome. Who would you rather fuck? Brigitta Brezovac or Kim Petras? No agenda here, I'm just super curious as to which you think would make you gayer..." Notice you, like the others, have cherry picked what you respond to…and accused me of entering the debate in bad faith. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? yes he is because trans still have xy chromosome. Who would you rather fuck? Brigitta Brezovac or Kim Petras? No agenda here, I'm just super curious as to which you think would make you gayer... Notice you, like the others, have cherry picked what you respond to…and accused me of entering the debate in bad faith." I don't have time to respond to every single point made on this thread, thank you. I am also working. You may have entered the debate in bad faith, I don't really know or care. But you did make a bad faith argument earlier by implying the only Dictionary definition you could find of "woman" was "adult human female". As a side point, you've not answered that point either... | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? yes he is because trans still have xy chromosome. Who would you rather fuck? Brigitta Brezovac or Kim Petras? No agenda here, I'm just super curious as to which you think would make you gayer... Notice you, like the others, have cherry picked what you respond to…and accused me of entering the debate in bad faith. I don't have time to respond to every single point made on this thread, thank you. I am also working. You may have entered the debate in bad faith, I don't really know or care. But you did make a bad faith argument earlier by implying the only Dictionary definition you could find of "woman" was "adult human female". As a side point, you've not answered that point either..." Ive answered it with 2 dictionary (Oxford & Merriam) definitions, not sure if you’ve maybe missed them? Here’s the “female” one for you again just in case. Would you care to respond to that, or choosing to bow out? I’m more than happy to continue an adult debate, but it goes two ways. female 1 of 2 adjective fe·?male 'fe-?mal Synonyms of female 1 a (1) : of, relating to, or being the sex that typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggs | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? yes he is because trans still have xy chromosome. Who would you rather fuck? Brigitta Brezovac or Kim Petras? No agenda here, I'm just super curious as to which you think would make you gayer... Notice you, like the others, have cherry picked what you respond to…and accused me of entering the debate in bad faith. I don't have time to respond to every single point made on this thread, thank you. I am also working. You may have entered the debate in bad faith, I don't really know or care. But you did make a bad faith argument earlier by implying the only Dictionary definition you could find of "woman" was "adult human female". As a side point, you've not answered that point either... Ive answered it with 2 dictionary (Oxford & Merriam) definitions, not sure if you’ve maybe missed them? Here’s the “female” one for you again just in case. Would you care to respond to that, or choosing to bow out? I’m more than happy to continue an adult debate, but it goes two ways. female 1 of 2 adjective fe·?male 'fe-?mal Synonyms of female 1 a (1) : of, relating to, or being the sex that typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggs " Ah... Oh dear... If you look at your Webster's definition, under (b) it confirms "having a gender identity that is the opposite of male". So are you happy to accept the Websters definition, yes or no? I'm happy to.
As it happens, I don't know or care if you've said anything transphobic. Going by the dictionary definition probably not, but I do think that you have said insensitive things that could cause offence. I don't think the two are the same thing. | |||
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" : of, relating to, or being the sex that typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggs Ah... Oh dear... If you look at your Webster's definition, under (b) it confirms "having a gender identity that is the opposite of male". So are you happy to accept the Websters definition, yes or no? I'm happy to.
As it happens, I don't know or care if you've said anything transphobic. Going by the dictionary definition probably not, but I do think that you have said insensitive things that could cause offence. I don't think the two are the same thing."Yay so you agree that a female typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggs? If so then yup I am more than happy. To clarify I do not believe trans women are identical to (biological) women. I haven’t said anywhere that makes them lesser, undeserving of respect/compassion, or anything else negative. Im not sure what I’ve said that’s insensitive, but would you call out your peers that have labelled me transphobic? I’m going to guess not. | |||
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"….I am proud to be a Transwoman. Am I different from a Cisgender woman? Obviously yes as I am Transgender and not Cisgender. Does that make me lesser? No, it just means I am different as I said. There are certain situation (such as some medical things) in which this difference is important, and some situations in which it is not (such as me needing to use the loo so I obviously use the women's toilets) Does sexuality have anything to do with me being Trans? No. Sexuality and gender are obviously different. Can a guy be straight and date a Transgender woman? Of course he can. Debate and discussion are good so long as all parties listen and keep it civil. It is a complicated subject and I don't expect all other Transwomen (can't speak for Transmen as I don't have that life experience) to agree with me or all Cisgender people to agree with me but this is the same with any debate isn't it. To repeat myself...are Transwomen women? Yes. Are Transwomen the same as Ciswomen? No. Again , personally, I am a Transwoman and bloody proud to be one as I have had a hell of time getting to where I am today. Hope it’s okay I’ve trimmed your message in the quote, didn’t want to fill up the entire thread with quotes so I just kept the bits I felt were particularly relevant
I couldn’t agree more with your sentiment and you’ve put it far more elegantly than my rambling efforts do.
I’m fully aware that there are things in my biology that will forever remain male and I’m okay with that. I don’t hide it and I don’t hide who I am or not journey. I am biologically different from a cis woman ( I understand the discomfort with that term but whatever term you do prefer, you know what I mean ) and that’s just life but does it make me any less of a woman?
In my view no it doesn’t, but again I understand other’s right to disagree but let’s keep it civil. You don’t have to agree with me and I won’t force you to, but at least be nice about it. "Refreshing to see this after such animosity. Happy swinging x | |||
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" : of, relating to, or being the sex that typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggs Ah... Oh dear... If you look at your Webster's definition, under (b) it confirms "having a gender identity that is the opposite of male". So are you happy to accept the Websters definition, yes or no? I'm happy to.
As it happens, I don't know or care if you've said anything transphobic. Going by the dictionary definition probably not, but I do think that you have said insensitive things that could cause offence. I don't think the two are the same thing.
Yay so you agree that a female typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggs? If so then yup I am more than happy.
To clarify I do not believe trans women are identical to (biological) women. I haven’t said anywhere that makes them lesser, undeserving of respect/compassion, or anything else negative.
Im not sure what I’ve said that’s insensitive, but would you call out your peers that have labelled me transphobic? I’m going to guess not.
"This is really bad faith tbh. You know exactly what I'm saying in that your chosen dictionary has two definitions, one of which you agree with and are appealing to as an authority, and the other you don't. This is inconsistent. And now you're back to what you "believe" rather than what is or isn't objectively true. I think you've lost the argument, being honest... No I'm not going to call anyone out. Personally I don't think, objectively speaking, you have met the definition but if others think this, that's their "belief"
I have genuinely enjoyed the debate. I don't, like, hate you or anything. Life is too short.
To answer your other point, it is insensitive to deny (or imply denial) that trans women are women. It has clearly caused some people to be offended on this thread.
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" : of, relating to, or being the sex that typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggs Ah... Oh dear... If you look at your Webster's definition, under (b) it confirms "having a gender identity that is the opposite of male". So are you happy to accept the Websters definition, yes or no? I'm happy to.
As it happens, I don't know or care if you've said anything transphobic. Going by the dictionary definition probably not, but I do think that you have said insensitive things that could cause offence. I don't think the two are the same thing.
Yay so you agree that a female typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggs? If so then yup I am more than happy.
To clarify I do not believe trans women are identical to (biological) women. I haven’t said anywhere that makes them lesser, undeserving of respect/compassion, or anything else negative.
Im not sure what I’ve said that’s insensitive, but would you call out your peers that have labelled me transphobic? I’m going to guess not.
This is really bad faith tbh. You know exactly what I'm saying in that your chosen dictionary has two definitions, one of which you agree with and are appealing to as an authority, and the other you don't. This is inconsistent. And now you're back to what you "believe" rather than what is or isn't objectively true. I think you've lost the argument, being honest...
No I'm not going to call anyone out. Personally I don't think, objectively speaking, you have met the definition but if others think this, that's their "belief"
I have genuinely enjoyed the debate. I don't, like, hate you or anything. Life is too short.
To answer your other point, it is insensitive to deny (or imply denial) that trans women are women. It has clearly caused some people to be offended on this thread.
Xx"Then surely by your logic you’ve done the same in bad faith as the definition you picked is the same and you’re choosing one over the other? I could also argue the same that you’ve “lost” the debate, however I don’t think that’s the case, we just don’t agree and that’s more than fine. I most certainly have no ill will towards you either so all good matey.
I don’t agree that’s insensitive, if people choose to be offended by that it’s on them. I’ve not gone out my way to offend just giving my opinion/view. | |||
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"No no, I agree with both definitions. The two are not either/or. The same word can have two meanings xx" Also, as friendly a term as it is, please don't call me "matey" | |||
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"No no, I agree with both definitions. The two are not either/or. The same word can have two meanings xx" I think we’re somewhat on the same page, hard to tell now tbh. Although I think I’ve maybe worked out where the confusion is… " If you look at your Webster's definition, under (b) it confirms "having a gender identity that is the opposite of male"." The point I refer to references sex, whereas yours is gender identity. So if you agree with both definitions then you have to agree that when it comes to SEX, a trans woman is different to a (biological) woman. I also have to concede that when it comes to gender (side note my predictive text changed that to bender…can you imagine the furore!? Ha ha) they’re the same, and I’m happy to do so. | |||
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"No no, I agree with both definitions. The two are not either/or. The same word can have two meanings xx I think we’re somewhat on the same page, hard to tell now tbh. Although I think I’ve maybe worked out where the confusion is… If you look at your Webster's definition, under (b) it confirms "having a gender identity that is the opposite of male". The point I refer to references sex, whereas yours is gender identity. So if you agree with both definitions then you have to agree that when it comes to SEX, a trans woman is different to a (biological) woman. I also have to concede that when it comes to gender (side note my predictive text changed that to bender…can you imagine the furore!? Ha ha) they’re the same, and I’m happy to do so. " Agreed, there is a difference between biological sex and gender. So yes there is a difference between trans and cis women. This is why we have these prefixes; they provide more information. Most women are cis so we as a society tend to just use the word "women" without the "cis" prefix. There are fewer trans women and therefore we tend to use the "trans" prefix to provide the additional information, because there is a difference. However, they're both women. It's just that we now have categories of woman. Just as we have "trans" and "cos" categories of man. They're both still men. | |||
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"Huzzah! Common ground! "At least tell me what you think is gayer ... Sex with Brigitta Brezovac or Kim Petras? | |||
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"Huzzah! Common ground!
At least tell me what you think is gayer ... Sex with Brigitta Brezovac or Kim Petras?"You’ve lost me on the that one? 
I wouldn’t say sex with either is gay. | |||
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"Again i wouldn’t say fucking either is gay." Okay cool... I think I need to be having this conversation with someone who thinks trans women are men. It was one that Andrew Tate came up with, although he used "Hulk Hogan with a pussy or Megan Fox with a dick".
Good chatting babe xx | |||
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"Again i wouldn’t say fucking either is gay. Okay cool... I think I need to be having this conversation with someone who thinks trans women are men. It was one that Andrew Tate came up with, although he used "Hulk Hogan with a pussy or Megan Fox with a dick".
Good chatting babe xx"Ah I’m with you now. Nice chatting too. P.s Totes Megan Fox with a dick. P.p.s As friendly a term as it is, please don’t call me “babe”.
And yes I am joking/trolling with that last bit, but all meant in jest. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay?" He might be, or bi. Or, if you mean post op trans, then he'd be straight. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? He might be, or bi. Or, if you mean post op trans, then he'd be straight." Personally don’t agree, but it’s ace getting others opinions on here, cheers. | |||
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"Do we really need to label people based on who they choose to have sex with? People have fantastic varied sexual preferences for particular people based on biologically assigned sex at birth or their chosen gender. The joy of diversity and inclusion is that people should be free to live without judgement. " Certainly helps find likeminded folks and has worked pretty damn well so far.
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? He might be, or bi. Or, if you mean post op trans, then he'd be straight." Just having a bit more of a think on this one. Do you believe then that post op trans are more female than pre op? Please don’t think I’m having a dig, or setting a trap. You’re entitled to your opinion and I just like getting differing views. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? He might be, or bi. Or, if you mean post op trans, then he'd be straight. Just having a bit more of a think on this one. Do you believe then that post op trans are more female than pre op? Please don’t think I’m having a dig, or setting a trap. You’re entitled to your opinion and I just like getting differing views. " If they've had GRS then definitely (hence the term Post Op). | |||
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"Here's my view, depending on how far the transition of transgender woman has gone. Post op TS - he's straight, as she is a woman. That's pretty clear in my head. Pre-op TS - depends on what happens. If he only participates in stuff he can do with a woman (receive oral, give anal etc) then I'd say still straight. If he starts to venture across into giving oral or receiving anal then probably bi-curious / bi. TGirl / TV - awkward, depends on how femme the lady is presenting (some TGirls are more femme than women!) Here I'd suggest bi, again depends on what happens really. Also - a one time occurrence doesn't label you for life. We're allowed to experiment, to try things and not be judged for it. I guess the labels only stick if that is your preference going forward x" I totally get where you’re coming from, but completely disagree. Thanks for taking the time to explain and articulate matey, much appreciated. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? He might be, or bi. Or, if you mean post op trans, then he'd be straight. Just having a bit more of a think on this one. Do you believe then that post op trans are more female than pre op? Please don’t think I’m having a dig, or setting a trap. You’re entitled to your opinion and I just like getting differing views. If they've had GRS then definitely (hence the term Post Op)." I’ll be interested in seeing if the folks that labelled me transphobic say the same to you… | |||
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"I think my views may be thought as phobic in some capacity but I don't believe I am. I think there is a problem with the labelling. Everyone should get on being whovever they want to be and if you fancy any other person and want to get jiggy with them, crack on, life's too short. Just don't label me and I won't label you. I feel there is too much argument and counter argument. People are just people at the end of the day. I have differing views to others on herd. It doesn't mean I am not a nice person, I just might not agree with you. Let's just have some fun with people we fancy and not worry about labels x" Nothing phobic whatsoever in anything you’ve said. If you get rid of labels you’d have to get rid of LGBTQ, all the various pride stuff etc surely? Im with you with regards to people doing what they like with who they like (obviously with consent and within the law). No one should ever be persecuted for the gender, sexuality, or anything else for that matter. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? He might be, or bi. Or, if you mean post op trans, then he'd be straight. Just having a bit more of a think on this one. Do you believe then that post op trans are more female than pre op? Please don’t think I’m having a dig, or setting a trap. You’re entitled to your opinion and I just like getting differing views. " Of course, pre-op they are transitioning therefore, by definition, are in the middle of changing. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? He might be, or bi. Or, if you mean post op trans, then he'd be straight. Just having a bit more of a think on this one. Do you believe then that post op trans are more female than pre op? Please don’t think I’m having a dig, or setting a trap. You’re entitled to your opinion and I just like getting differing views. Of course, pre-op they are transitioning therefore, by definition, are in the middle of changing. " So with your definition unless they have the op they’re not trans? I totally get where you’re coming from, just my logical brain kicking in. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? He might be, or bi. Or, if you mean post op trans, then he'd be straight. Just having a bit more of a think on this one. Do you believe then that post op trans are more female than pre op? Please don’t think I’m having a dig, or setting a trap. You’re entitled to your opinion and I just like getting differing views. Of course, pre-op they are transitioning therefore, by definition, are in the middle of changing. So with your definition unless they have the op they’re not trans? I totally get where you’re coming from, just my logical brain kicking in. "I didn't say anything like that so I don't think you do. | |||
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"So ….. if a straight guy sleeps with a trans girl, is he gay? We like to keep and open mind and not put a label on it but just wanted to know peoples thoughts? If the trans female has a pussy and tits, a man having sex with her is not gay. A trans female is a female... So defining people entirely by genitals? Is that not the whole point of a man getting his penis and testicles removed in order to have a female pussy and breasts .. Because he wants to be Female... I am not defining anyone by their genitals... A more than slightly reductive explanation
My trans son has no desire to have surgery to construct a penis. One's gender is not solely about genitals "My friend's teen child is queer/gender non-conforming they use the "they" pronouns and dress male, female and androgynous. They have no specific sexual attraction as yet umm maybe because they are under the age of consent?! I won't ask obviously because it's none of my business and I'm not planning to date anyone young enough to be my child. | |||
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"'One's gender is not solely about genitals' Exactly and succinctly put. " | |||
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"'One's gender is not solely about genitals' Exactly and succinctly put.
Don't you mean "gender identity"?
I am not sure why you and others are having a go at me.
I apologise if it came across as if I was aiming my comment directly at you. That was not my intent and I should have been clearer in what I meant.
And your right it could also be said as 'gender identity is not solely about genitals'."Noted. | |||
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"I find that I'm attracted to feminine bodies, and looks. What's between their legs isn't what I look for, it's the feminine presentation and mentality. I do also enjoy a female with male genitalia, arguably more than with female genitalia. I wouldn't say it's gay, as the sight of a man's face and body does nothing for me unless it's presented as feminine. Gave up trying to put a word to it a long time ago. Tldr: I like the female form, but also enjoy a cock. Androphilia describes sexual attraction to men or masculinity; gynephilia describes the sexual attraction to women or femininity. "Noted. Something new I learned. | |||
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"So I class myself as bisexual as I'm not attracted to men but am attracted to tvs trans. Yes I love cock and pussy "noted | |||
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"I don't really understand why people care. Have sex with people you're attracted to and have fun with. " Noted. | |||
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"I don't really understand why people care. Have sex with people you're attracted to and have fun with. " I think some people like me are trying to understand. I was raised in an extremely homophobic/transphobic society in the Caribbean. Add to the fact that my autistic brain focuses on details and has trouble switching for changes. I'm trying to learn so I don't always offend people by getting it wrong. I think I will get it eventually but it takes me longer than the average person. | |||
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