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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? " One more important fact to add, BB Oral also a huge risk according to the NHS website.. So no more pussy licking?  | |||
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"Not worth it imo" Totally agree.. How do you justify when comes to oral though? It's the bread & butter, can we eat only the bread? | |||
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"Not worth it imo Totally agree.. How do you justify when comes to oral though? It's the bread & butter, can we eat only the bread? "No where near as risky as unprotected sex. Us swingers are taking risks all the time, but regular check up and using condoms, keep us safe as can be. | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? " Wouldn't describe it as courage. | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? One more important fact to add, BB Oral also a huge risk according to the NHS website.. So no more pussy licking? "People seem to forget the risk there, so are you going to let any one suck your cock? as that's also a risk, and what about kissing?  | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? Wouldn't describe it as courage. " Wouldn't describe it as a lack of knowledge or self-respect as the OP has done either. People can make their own decisions, and live with them. If you are looking after your own sexual health how you see fit then why worry about demonising others? | |||
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"For anyone who barebacks, PLEASE at least do the following: - get vaccinated against Hepatitis A & B - get vaccinated against HPV - use PREP to reduce HIV risk - use PEP after event if risked HIV exposure Please learn more about the above, whatever your sexuality, gender etc " | |||
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"Me and my wife get all the vacs and get checked regularly and take preep as well" Good stuff | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? One more important fact to add, BB Oral also a huge risk according to the NHS website.. So no more pussy licking?
People seem to forget the risk there, so are you going to let any one suck your cock? as that's also a risk, and what about kissing? "Well said! I felt there was a tone of judgmentalism in the OP's post. The only way to be sure of staying 100% clean is to never have intimate contact with anyone...ever. We in the community are rightly outraged when others pronounce swinging to be dirty, immoral, an affront to 'decent society' (whatever that is) etc. So to read people commenting on others sexual habits is always disappointing, especially as kink shaming is supposed to be one of the main no-no's of our lifestyle. Every sexual act carries a risk and it's up to the individual how they manage those risks. So how about we all just make our own sexual health choices and let others make theirs? | |||
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"For anyone who barebacks, PLEASE at least do the following: - get vaccinated against Hepatitis A & B - get vaccinated against HPV - use PREP to reduce HIV risk - use PEP after event if risked HIV exposure Please learn more about the above, whatever your sexuality, gender etc "Excellent post. Indeed, people can take further steps and make sure vaccines against other infectious diseases are up to date. Covid-19, seasonal flu, diphtheria, tetanus, TB, MMR and so on. Google will tell you what is available or speak to your GP. The older we get, the weaker our immune systems become and all these other infections don't leave the room when sex happens. We have become too used to the benefits of vaccination and some diseases are becoming so unusual we do not remember how terrible their consequences can be. Immunisation programmes are threatened by inadequate information, unsubstantiated rumours about adverse effects, or by groups that, for religious or other reasons, are opposed to vaccination. Repeated threads on here will attest to this. Vitamin D is essential in the UK this time of the year due to low sunlight levels. Also sensible to avoid meeting until a cold or cough has gone, shower before and after sex etc. Other measures like condoms etc will lower the risk, but only the truly lifetime celibate/lifetime partnered & negative-tested can avoid all STIs, which is why testing is so important. | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? One more important fact to add, BB Oral also a huge risk according to the NHS website.. So no more pussy licking?
People seem to forget the risk there, so are you going to let any one suck your cock? as that's also a risk, and what about kissing? "Didn't mention sucking cock because it left with an option to wear a condom and do it. But would that be the same for ladies to get their pussy licked over a piece of rubber cloth? Do anyone prefer that? | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? One more important fact to add, BB Oral also a huge risk according to the NHS website.. So no more pussy licking?
People seem to forget the risk there, so are you going to let any one suck your cock? as that's also a risk, and what about kissing?
Didn't mention sucking cock because it left with an option to wear a condom and do it. But would that be the same for ladies to get their pussy licked over a piece of rubber cloth? Do anyone prefer that? "OP if you are that scared of STD just stop having sex problem solved. or find someone who is STD free and live a monogamous life like miliions of people and you really shouldn't be on a swinger site. i have sex with a lot of men and make sure they wear protection for anal. sucking a cock in a condom taste awful and for me defeat the pleasure of doing it. i get tested every 3 months to make sure i am clean and take all what is needed for me to be as safe as i can. | |||
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"I only do protected sex for everything. It’s not courageous to go bareback, it’s downright stupid. " Lots of things can be described as Stupid. Drinking or smoking too much, rock climbing, bungee jumping, motorsports etc. Should everyone just give all this up, or enjoy them and minimise as much of any risk as possible? | |||
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"I only do protected sex for everything. It’s not courageous to go bareback, it’s downright stupid. Lots of things can be described as Stupid. Drinking or smoking too much, rock climbing, bungee jumping, motorsports etc. Should everyone just give all this up, or enjoy them and minimise as much of any risk as possible? " Answer : enjoy them and minimise as many of the risks as possible. Like driving, wear your seat belt, don't drink alcohol and drive, don't speed, keep your car well maintained, test regular Mot, buy a car with decent safety kit, keep tyres above 1.6mm tread depth and so on. You can still have an accident, but the only alternative to make 100% is to give up driving and never be a passenger in any kind of vehicle. Totally impractical for most of us. | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? " Let's try to be a bit more sex positive here OP. Having an std/I does not make you 'dirty'. The same as catching covid does not make you dirty. Both are part of life. With modern drugs and vaccines available, barebacking isn't half as risky it used to be. Its not having the correct education that is risky or people that do not consider/respect their partners when bareback cheating. I'm a bareback gal all the way, I'm checked regularly, I take the Prep pill to keep myself safe (I personally wouldn't bareback without prep) and I absolutely wouldn't have it any other way. My body my choice. I consider myself responsible and am sexually healthy in every way. | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? Let's try to be a bit more sex positive here OP. Having an std/I does not make you 'dirty'. The same as catching covid does not make you dirty. Both are part of life. With modern drugs and vaccines available, barebacking isn't half as risky it used to be. Its not having the correct education that is risky or people that do not consider/respect their partners when bareback cheating. I'm a bareback gal all the way, I'm checked regularly, I take the Prep pill to keep myself safe (I personally wouldn't bareback without prep) and I absolutely wouldn't have it any other way. My body my choice. I consider myself responsible and am sexually healthy in every way. " Of course it makes someone dirty, we really have adults here who think like little children? The fuck is going on here | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? Let's try to be a bit more sex positive here OP. Having an std/I does not make you 'dirty'. The same as catching covid does not make you dirty. Both are part of life. With modern drugs and vaccines available, barebacking isn't half as risky it used to be. Its not having the correct education that is risky or people that do not consider/respect their partners when bareback cheating. I'm a bareback gal all the way, I'm checked regularly, I take the Prep pill to keep myself safe (I personally wouldn't bareback without prep) and I absolutely wouldn't have it any other way. My body my choice. I consider myself responsible and am sexually healthy in every way. Of course it makes someone dirty, we really have adults here who think like little children? The fuck is going on here "Eli, I am asking myself the same question after your dreadful and shameful response to Cherry's perfectly reasonable and empowering post. The ironic thing is that it is you who is thinking like a child, rather than a grown up. There is nothing dirty about it. People like you stop others seeking treatment through shame and stigma. People with STDs who experienced greater shame and stigma are less likely to notify their partners in some studies. Those people are also less likely to deliver medication to their partners, when they could safely and easily do so. Having an STI doesn't mean somebody did something despicable or dirty. It just means they had less safer sex for whatever reason — like so much of the rest of the world. Just know that most STIs can be cured or effectively managed. | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? Let's try to be a bit more sex positive here OP. Having an std/I does not make you 'dirty'. The same as catching covid does not make you dirty. Both are part of life. With modern drugs and vaccines available, barebacking isn't half as risky it used to be. Its not having the correct education that is risky or people that do not consider/respect their partners when bareback cheating. I'm a bareback gal all the way, I'm checked regularly, I take the Prep pill to keep myself safe (I personally wouldn't bareback without prep) and I absolutely wouldn't have it any other way. My body my choice. I consider myself responsible and am sexually healthy in every way. Of course it makes someone dirty, we really have adults here who think like little children? The fuck is going on here
Eli, I am asking myself the same question after your dreadful and shameful response to Cherry's perfectly reasonable and empowering post. The ironic thing is that it is you who is thinking like a child, rather than a grown up.
There is nothing dirty about it. People like you stop others seeking treatment through shame and stigma. People with STDs who experienced greater shame and stigma are less likely to notify their partners in some studies. Those people are also less likely to deliver medication to their partners, when they could safely and easily do so.
Having an STI doesn't mean somebody did something despicable or dirty. It just means they had less safer sex for whatever reason — like so much of the rest of the world. Just know that most STIs can be cured or effectively managed. "Thank you cheshirebiman, it seems unfortunately people still carry so much shame about their own or others sexual persuits. It's even in our language ('talk dirty to me' for example). I cannot judge as I remember a time in my life when I felt the same. It's a journey for many swingers and education is key to safer sex practices. When we catch other infections we don't consider them dirty, only if sexually transmitted. I'm also shocked at the OPs last comment suggesting I think and act like a child but unfortunately many people are still of this opinion. | |||
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"You can have a clean bill of STI's but the hpv virus won't show up, which can go on to cause cervical cancer, PID can cause infertility. " That's why smear tests are so important for women..for HPV.. | |||
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" For those feeling that level of fear i would suggest the only route is celibacy " Precisely. I would recommend only having sex with other celibate people. | |||
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" For those feeling that level of fear i would suggest the only route is celibacy Precisely. I would recommend only having sex with other celibate people."  I see what you did there!  | |||
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"Harder to find dental dams u can still get them,but why aren't they available like condoms,or even sell them next to condoms." until now I've never thought of that, you're right..why don't they sell them next to condoms? | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? " Yet another post attacking people for their choices! | |||
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"“Clean”. Awful word. I have a family member who works in a clinic, so I have been lectured, poked and prodded by the best of them. As far as I’m concerned, STI’s are viruses and bacterial infections, just the same as the common cold, ear infection, skin irritations or a non-specific UTI. When children have ear infections, are they “dirty”? When husbands and wives have colds, are they “dirty”? It’s the exact same kind of organism as a sexually transmitted infection, but they just affect different parts of the body. To use the word “clean” to describe your sexual health directly panders to ideals of Victorian era prudishness. I thought that this website might be a bit more progressive when it comes to things like this, seeing as it is designed to cater for a lifestyle that transcends the boundaries of traditional, old fashioned, monogamous relationships. Sexually transmitted infections have the potential to (and very often do) happen to the most careful of us. I think it’s a very good way of judging the immaturity of someone’s character if you have to contact a recent liaison to tell them that they should get themselves checked as you have tested positive for something, and they react with a; “Ew, you dirty b*stard!” We should accept that STI’s are just as natural as catching a cough and a cold. Yes they’re annoying. Nobody wants them. But they’re nobody’s fault. They’re a part of life and we should all take steps to avoid them by making informed and mature decisions about our sexual activity. Hopefully we won’t catch anything. But if we do, yes, it’s rotten luck, but it’s also no big deal! You’ll get over it, just the same as you’ll get over catching a cold." Really good post
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"For anyone who barebacks, PLEASE at least do the following: - get vaccinated against Hepatitis A & B - get vaccinated against HPV - use PREP to reduce HIV risk - use PEP after event if risked HIV exposure Please learn more about the above, whatever your sexuality, gender etc "What I find odd is the number of people that have not been vaccinated against these std as it's so easy to. | |||
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"For anyone who barebacks, PLEASE at least do the following: - get vaccinated against Hepatitis A & B - get vaccinated against HPV - use PREP to reduce HIV risk - use PEP after event if risked HIV exposure Please learn more about the above, whatever your sexuality, gender etc
What I find odd is the number of people that have not been vaccinated against these std as it's so easy to."All of these require me to pay except hep B. The NHS provides free hpv vaccines for men who have sex with men, but not for women. Presents them as a luxury and nonessential, and most of us have other things to spend £700 on. | |||
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"For anyone who barebacks, PLEASE at least do the following: - get vaccinated against Hepatitis A & B - get vaccinated against HPV - use PREP to reduce HIV risk - use PEP after event if risked HIV exposure Please learn more about the above, whatever your sexuality, gender etc
What I find odd is the number of people that have not been vaccinated against these std as it's so easy to.
All of these require me to pay except hep B. The NHS provides free hpv vaccines for men who have sex with men, but not for women. Presents them as a luxury and nonessential, and most of us have other things to spend £700 on. "As a swinger you could get it free. Not sure where the £700 figure is coming from though, 2 or 3 potential courses cost half that in total if going private | |||
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"For anyone who barebacks, PLEASE at least do the following: - get vaccinated against Hepatitis A & B - get vaccinated against HPV - use PREP to reduce HIV risk - use PEP after event if risked HIV exposure Please learn more about the above, whatever your sexuality, gender etc "Totally agree Respect a new partner if they ask you to rubber up they care about their own sexual health  | |||
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"I've been wearing this Johnny on my profile for a couple of days and can safely say I get more attention bare. This is not a proper scientific experiment, but it says the site prefers bareback "Cocks definitely look better when you can fully see them. | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? Let's try to be a bit more sex positive here OP. Having an std/I does not make you 'dirty'. The same as catching covid does not make you dirty. Both are part of life. With modern drugs and vaccines available, barebacking isn't half as risky it used to be. Its not having the correct education that is risky or people that do not consider/respect their partners when bareback cheating. I'm a bareback gal all the way, I'm checked regularly, I take the Prep pill to keep myself safe (I personally wouldn't bareback without prep) and I absolutely wouldn't have it any other way. My body my choice. I consider myself responsible and am sexually healthy in every way. " Proudly boasting. Std rates are zooming up because of selfish ***** like you. | |||
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"Was on the news the other day hiv transmission is now more common in hetrosexual relationships than among men" No, Aids is more common in hetros now due to the "Jabs." | |||
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"Never. " 'Never' to what? | |||
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"For anyone who barebacks, PLEASE at least do the following: - get vaccinated against Hepatitis A & B - get vaccinated against HPV - use PREP to reduce HIV risk - use PEP after event if risked HIV exposure Please learn more about the above, whatever your sexuality, gender etc
What I find odd is the number of people that have not been vaccinated against these std as it's so easy to.
All of these require me to pay except hep B. The NHS provides free hpv vaccines for men who have sex with men, but not for women. Presents them as a luxury and nonessential, and most of us have other things to spend £700 on.
As a swinger you could get it free. Not sure where the £700 figure is coming from though, 2 or 3 potential courses cost half that in total if going private "Usually around £400 if really have no option but to go private. Can you afford not to spend this if you're at higher risk of acquiring hepatitis? What are the 'better' things to spend it on? Sky, ciggies, alcohol, holidays, takeaways, bookmakers, cosmetics, the latest smartphones, perfumes, watches, handbags and jewellery? Just checking | |||
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"Was on the news the other day hiv transmission is now more common in hetrosexual relationships than among men No, Aids is more common in hetros now due to the "Jabs."" Very low on details and evidence. Care to clarify? | |||
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"I totally disagree with your comment. Cherry isn't boasting or selfish, she comes across as more educated on Sti's than you are. Cherry has all the vaccinations, is on prep and gets tested very regularly. I expect that's more than you do, or do you wear a condom for every sexual activity? What Std is going to kill you or seriously make you ill nowadays? I've had a couple in my time and only discovered them when I was tested. All it took was either an injection or a course of antibiotics to get rid. I expect most people with HIV are fitter and have better immune system than most of the population. It just takes a tablet a day nowadays to have a low viral load. Some doctors have said that they would rather have HIV than type 2 Diabetes as HIV affects you a lot less. " Great post and all true. If not managed carefully, diabetes can wreak havoc. In a few unlucky diabetics, it still can wreak havoc if managed well. My neighbour, who is a nurse, says HIV now very mostly easily managed with simple tablet treatment. | |||
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 lol
There's always some risk and I do miss out on some fun being the way I am. Everyone has to make that choice though, and that choice is going to effect other people, as with any communicable disease.
That's one way I think swinging can be easier for couples, they've got the safety of their relationship to fall back on - although I know that sometimes entering the swinging lifestyle can strain a relationship.
I've met some single people who have an incurable std and dating is really hard for them. | |||
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"For anyone who barebacks, PLEASE at least do the following: - get vaccinated against Hepatitis A & B - get vaccinated against HPV - use PREP to reduce HIV risk - use PEP after event if risked HIV exposure Please learn more about the above, whatever your sexuality, gender etc
What I find odd is the number of people that have not been vaccinated against these std as it's so easy to.
All of these require me to pay except hep B. The NHS provides free hpv vaccines for men who have sex with men, but not for women. Presents them as a luxury and nonessential, and most of us have other things to spend £700 on.
As a swinger you could get it free. Not sure where the £700 figure is coming from though, 2 or 3 potential courses cost half that in total if going private
Usually around £400 if really have no option but to go private. Can you afford not to spend this if you're at higher risk of acquiring hepatitis? What are the 'better' things to spend it on? Sky, ciggies, alcohol, holidays, takeaways, bookmakers, cosmetics, the latest smartphones, perfumes, watches, handbags and jewellery? Just checking "Single mum
£495 for a full course of gardasil, £77 for hepatitis A alone (have already had my hep B) but if I needed both hep A and B then that would be £231 for the whole course. Also, I’m not high risk for hepatitis.
Given that I also had to fund my two eldest childrens HPV vaccines (because they were born before the NHS cutoff) I can promise you that round here, they are definitely not free. I found the money but it was a stretch. Some people won’t be able to, and some people on here are too old for the HPV vaccine, so assume condoms will remain a thing. | |||
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"For anyone who barebacks, PLEASE at least do the following: - get vaccinated against Hepatitis A & B - get vaccinated against HPV - use PREP to reduce HIV risk - use PEP after event if risked HIV exposure Please learn more about the above, whatever your sexuality, gender etc
What I find odd is the number of people that have not been vaccinated against these std as it's so easy to.
All of these require me to pay except hep B. The NHS provides free hpv vaccines for men who have sex with men, but not for women. Presents them as a luxury and nonessential, and most of us have other things to spend £700 on.
As a swinger you could get it free. Not sure where the £700 figure is coming from though, 2 or 3 potential courses cost half that in total if going private
Usually around £400 if really have no option but to go private. Can you afford not to spend this if you're at higher risk of acquiring hepatitis? What are the 'better' things to spend it on? Sky, ciggies, alcohol, holidays, takeaways, bookmakers, cosmetics, the latest smartphones, perfumes, watches, handbags and jewellery? Just checking
Single mum
£495 for a full course of gardasil, £77 for hepatitis A alone (have already had my hep B) but if I needed both hep A and B then that would be £231 for the whole course. Also, I’m not high risk for hepatitis.
Given that I also had to fund my two eldest childrens HPV vaccines (because they were born before the NHS cutoff) I can promise you that round here, they are definitely not free. I found the money but it was a stretch. Some people won’t be able to, and some people on here are too old for the HPV vaccine, so assume condoms will remain a thing. "All good points. Others though would prefer to spend £495 for a full year of Sky! | |||
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"“Clean”. Awful word. I have a family member who works in a clinic, so I have been lectured, poked and prodded by the best of them. As far as I’m concerned, STI’s are viruses and bacterial infections, just the same as the common cold, ear infection, skin irritations or a non-specific UTI. When children have ear infections, are they “dirty”? When husbands and wives have colds, are they “dirty”? It’s the exact same kind of organism as a sexually transmitted infection, but they just affect different parts of the body. To use the word “clean” to describe your sexual health directly panders to ideals of Victorian era prudishness. I thought that this website might be a bit more progressive when it comes to things like this, seeing as it is designed to cater for a lifestyle that transcends the boundaries of traditional, old fashioned, monogamous relationships. Sexually transmitted infections have the potential to (and very often do) happen to the most careful of us. I think it’s a very good way of judging the immaturity of someone’s character if you have to contact a recent liaison to tell them that they should get themselves checked as you have tested positive for something, and they react with a; “Ew, you dirty b*stard!” We should accept that STI’s are just as natural as catching a cough and a cold. Yes they’re annoying. Nobody wants them. But they’re nobody’s fault. They’re a part of life and we should all take steps to avoid them by making informed and mature decisions about our sexual activity. Hopefully we won’t catch anything. But if we do, yes, it’s rotten luck, but it’s also no big deal! You’ll get over it, just the same as you’ll get over catching a cold." Well said! | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? Let's try to be a bit more sex positive here OP. Having an std/I does not make you 'dirty'. The same as catching covid does not make you dirty. Both are part of life. With modern drugs and vaccines available, barebacking isn't half as risky it used to be. Its not having the correct education that is risky or people that do not consider/respect their partners when bareback cheating. I'm a bareback gal all the way, I'm checked regularly, I take the Prep pill to keep myself safe (I personally wouldn't bareback without prep) and I absolutely wouldn't have it any other way. My body my choice. I consider myself responsible and am sexually healthy in every way. Proudly boasting. Std rates are zooming up because of selfish ***** like you. " Whats it to you? If you're clinical in your approach to sex I'm sure you'll be fine. Sounds boring to me but each to their own. Proud yes but nothing to boast about, just joining in the chat if that's OK with you. I bet you're one of those who are still bleaching their shopping in case there's covid on it. Germaphobia is real  | |||
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"... I'm a bareback gal all the way, I'm checked regularly, I take the Prep pill to keep myself safe (I personally wouldn't bareback without prep) and I absolutely wouldn't have it any other way. My body my choice. I consider myself responsible and am sexually healthy in every way. Of course it makes someone dirty, we really have adults here who think like little children? The fuck is going on here "What's going on here is personal choice. People are free to choose their own level of protection, or not, according to what they're comfortable with. That doesn't make any one dirty and when we talk about irresponsibility that depends on each person's perspective. After all, many people would consider swinging itself to be dirty and irresponsible, regardless of whether you're into bareback or not. | |||
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"... I'm a bareback gal all the way, I'm checked regularly, I take the Prep pill to keep myself safe (I personally wouldn't bareback without prep) and I absolutely wouldn't have it any other way. My body my choice. I consider myself responsible and am sexually healthy in every way. Of course it makes someone dirty, we really have adults here who think like little children? The fuck is going on here
What's going on here is personal choice. People are free to choose their own level of protection, or not, according to what they're comfortable with.
That doesn't make any one dirty and when we talk about irresponsibility that depends on each person's perspective.
After all, many people would consider swinging itself to be dirty and irresponsible, regardless of whether you're into bareback or not."So true I dont understand why people go on rants about bareback or not, its your choice as an ADULT to decide how you play. | |||
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"Whatever risks you have taken, if you are testing regularly, you know your status. That is the only requirement, on top of not having sex, if knowingly infectious and a risk. OP, everyone is clean, unless they haven't washed. STIs are a standard part of adult life, when sexually active and few can say they have never caught anything.with complete certainty. Fab is full of thousands of people, who are extremely diverse in their sexual interests. Decide on your preference and then find others who match. Anything else is a waste of time and effort " Totally agree
Plus it completely ignored that there are some (genital warts comes to mind in particular), that are not prevented by condoms & can lay dormant (with no symptoms) in someone for years & therefore unknown and because of this you can't trace who it was, it could literally be anyone you've had genital contact with or without a condom.
Lice can be passed via shared bedding etc so don't even need to sleep with anyone there & largely unheard of these days due to shaving.
We need to stop treating stis & stds as if they are something only 'dirty' people can catch, you can be as clean as you like & still catch something...I was gonna say unexpectedly but that's daft because it never is expected despite being a obvious risk.
Just like any other bacteria or virus we can all catch them & pass them on, it's part of being part of nature.
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"For anyone who barebacks, PLEASE at least do the following: - get vaccinated against Hepatitis A & B - get vaccinated against HPV - use PREP to reduce HIV risk - use PEP after event if risked HIV exposure Please learn more about the above, whatever your sexuality, gender etc
What I find odd is the number of people that have not been vaccinated against these std as it's so easy to.
All of these require me to pay except hep B. The NHS provides free hpv vaccines for men who have sex with men, but not for women. Presents them as a luxury and nonessential, and most of us have other things to spend £700 on.
As a swinger you could get it free. Not sure where the £700 figure is coming from though, 2 or 3 potential courses cost half that in total if going private
Usually around £400 if really have no option but to go private. Can you afford not to spend this if you're at higher risk of acquiring hepatitis? What are the 'better' things to spend it on? Sky, ciggies, alcohol, holidays, takeaways, bookmakers, cosmetics, the latest smartphones, perfumes, watches, handbags and jewellery? Just checking "How about food, electricity, heating etc. Not everyone has a job, some can't via disability nor does everyone have a high enough income to throw £400+ at, you are aware of the increased use in food banks even for those working full time? Don't be so naive or dismissive to others circumstances & poorer people are also allowed to have sex just like richer people are, be it on here or elsewhere. | |||
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"Any exchange of bodily fluids is the start of risks as well as hygiene" Disagree, hygiene is a personal thing that has little to do with exchanging body fluids, it's brushing teeth, showers/baths, clean clothes etc. You can be smelly, have drity teeth, firth clothes & not have an sti/d so not true either. The 2 are not the same, one is a choice (or state of depression) and other isn't, no one asks to catch an sti/d. Only way to know is to test regularly. Plus everything in life is a risk, there isn't the option of 100% risk free, it's impossible. | |||
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"Any exchange of bodily fluids is the start of risks as well as hygiene Disagree, hygiene is a personal thing that has little to do with exchanging body fluids, it's brushing teeth, showers/baths, clean clothes etc. You can be smelly, have drity teeth, firth clothes & not have an sti/d so not true either. The 2 are not the same, one is a choice (or state of depression) and other isn't, no one asks to catch an sti/d. Only way to know is to test regularly. Plus everything in life is a risk, there isn't the option of 100% risk free, it's impossible. " I'm sorry but lack of hygiene plays an important part because that can lead anywhere to anything sti or not to head lice or even more it's like not washing and having unprotected leading to the creepy crawlies crabs | |||
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"Any exchange of bodily fluids is the start of risks as well as hygiene Disagree, hygiene is a personal thing that has little to do with exchanging body fluids, it's brushing teeth, showers/baths, clean clothes etc. You can be smelly, have drity teeth, firth clothes & not have an sti/d so not true either. The 2 are not the same, one is a choice (or state of depression) and other isn't, no one asks to catch an sti/d. Only way to know is to test regularly. Plus everything in life is a risk, there isn't the option of 100% risk free, it's impossible. I'm sorry but lack of hygiene plays an important part because that can lead anywhere to anything sti or not to head lice or even more it's like not washing and having unprotected leading to the creepy crawlies crabs "Head lice can be on clean hair and could be caught on the way to a meet | |||
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"Any exchange of bodily fluids is the start of risks as well as hygiene Disagree, hygiene is a personal thing that has little to do with exchanging body fluids, it's brushing teeth, showers/baths, clean clothes etc. You can be smelly, have drity teeth, firth clothes & not have an sti/d so not true either. The 2 are not the same, one is a choice (or state of depression) and other isn't, no one asks to catch an sti/d. Only way to know is to test regularly. Plus everything in life is a risk, there isn't the option of 100% risk free, it's impossible. I'm sorry but lack of hygiene plays an important part because that can lead anywhere to anything sti or not to head lice or even more it's like not washing and having unprotected leading to the creepy crawlies crabs "You're quite correct. It beggars belief someone presents on here with the ludicrous idea that poor hygiene cannot lead to disease. But then this is someone who absurdly but purposefully mixes up expenditure on essentials with spending on luxuries. It is fact that some people forego the former to indulge in the latter. Poor hygiene from infrequent bathing can cause a buildup of dead skin cells, dirt and sweat on the skin. This buildup may trigger acne, boils and possibly intensify conditions like hyperpigmentation, psoriasis, dermatitis and eczema. Body lice and scabies can develop.Scabies can spread rapidly under crowded and dirty conditions where close body contact is frequent. Institutions such as nursing homes, extended-care facilities, and prisons are often sites of scabies outbreaks. Lack of dental hygiene causes caries, athlete's foot thrives in uncleaned communal shower area, the list is virtually endless. Take a look at worm infections. Pinworm infection is spread by the fecal-oral route, that is by the transfer of infective pinworm eggs from the anus to someone’s mouth, either directly by dirty hands or indirectly through contaminated clothing, bedding, food, or other articles. It is incredible, not to mention dangerous, that somebody could pretend otherwise for the purposes of contrariness | |||
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"Any exchange of bodily fluids is the start of risks as well as hygiene Disagree, hygiene is a personal thing that has little to do with exchanging body fluids, it's brushing teeth, showers/baths, clean clothes etc. You can be smelly, have drity teeth, firth clothes & not have an sti/d so not true either. The 2 are not the same, one is a choice (or state of depression) and other isn't, no one asks to catch an sti/d. Only way to know is to test regularly. Plus everything in life is a risk, there isn't the option of 100% risk free, it's impossible. I'm sorry but lack of hygiene plays an important part because that can lead anywhere to anything sti or not to head lice or even more it's like not washing and having unprotected leading to the creepy crawlies crabs "Totally not true, especially with lice...take it you don't have kids primary age...head lice don't care if you hygenic or not they'll still be on you if they get the chance to transfer | |||
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"Any exchange of bodily fluids is the start of risks as well as hygiene Disagree, hygiene is a personal thing that has little to do with exchanging body fluids, it's brushing teeth, showers/baths, clean clothes etc. You can be smelly, have drity teeth, firth clothes & not have an sti/d so not true either. The 2 are not the same, one is a choice (or state of depression) and other isn't, no one asks to catch an sti/d. Only way to know is to test regularly. Plus everything in life is a risk, there isn't the option of 100% risk free, it's impossible. I'm sorry but lack of hygiene plays an important part because that can lead anywhere to anything sti or not to head lice or even more it's like not washing and having unprotected leading to the creepy crawlies crabs
You're quite correct. It beggars belief someone presents on here with the ludicrous idea that poor hygiene cannot lead to disease. But then this is someone who absurdly but purposefully mixes up expenditure on essentials with spending on luxuries. It is fact that some people forego the former to indulge in the latter.
Poor hygiene from infrequent bathing can cause a buildup of dead skin cells, dirt and sweat on the skin. This buildup may trigger acne, boils and possibly intensify conditions like hyperpigmentation, psoriasis, dermatitis and eczema. Body lice and scabies can develop.Scabies can spread rapidly under crowded and dirty conditions where close body contact is frequent. Institutions such as nursing homes, extended-care facilities, and prisons are often sites of scabies outbreaks.
Lack of dental hygiene causes caries, athlete's foot thrives in uncleaned communal shower area, the list is virtually endless. Take a look at worm infections. Pinworm infection is spread by the fecal-oral route, that is by the transfer of infective pinworm eggs from the anus to someone’s mouth, either directly by dirty hands or indirectly through contaminated clothing, bedding, food, or other articles.
It is incredible, not to mention dangerous, that somebody could pretend otherwise for the purposes of contrariness
"None of those you mentioned are an sti or std, which was my point that being hygienically clean is very different to having an sti/d. They are not they same and you can have little to no hygiene & not have an sti/d or by OCD hygienic in every manner & have an sti/d. And given that some people can't afford period products, do you think that not being able to afford condoms is a bit of a stretch for that person too? Or do you just think that sex is for the privileged only? That's why knowledge & free public services need to be there. Stigma alone prevents people from seeking treatment, so just stop. I have kids so well aware...nursery years are fun for picking up everything going. So off your high horse | |||
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"Any exchange of bodily fluids is the start of risks as well as hygiene Disagree, hygiene is a personal thing that has little to do with exchanging body fluids, it's brushing teeth, showers/baths, clean clothes etc. You can be smelly, have drity teeth, firth clothes & not have an sti/d so not true either. The 2 are not the same, one is a choice (or state of depression) and other isn't, no one asks to catch an sti/d. Only way to know is to test regularly. Plus everything in life is a risk, there isn't the option of 100% risk free, it's impossible. I'm sorry but lack of hygiene plays an important part because that can lead anywhere to anything sti or not to head lice or even more it's like not washing and having unprotected leading to the creepy crawlies crabs
You're quite correct. It beggars belief someone presents on here with the ludicrous idea that poor hygiene cannot lead to disease. But then this is someone who absurdly but purposefully mixes up expenditure on essentials with spending on luxuries. It is fact that some people forego the former to indulge in the latter.
Poor hygiene from infrequent bathing can cause a buildup of dead skin cells, dirt and sweat on the skin. This buildup may trigger acne, boils and possibly intensify conditions like hyperpigmentation, psoriasis, dermatitis and eczema. Body lice and scabies can develop.Scabies can spread rapidly under crowded and dirty conditions where close body contact is frequent. Institutions such as nursing homes, extended-care facilities, and prisons are often sites of scabies outbreaks.
Lack of dental hygiene causes caries, athlete's foot thrives in uncleaned communal shower area, the list is virtually endless. Take a look at worm infections. Pinworm infection is spread by the fecal-oral route, that is by the transfer of infective pinworm eggs from the anus to someone’s mouth, either directly by dirty hands or indirectly through contaminated clothing, bedding, food, or other articles.
It is incredible, not to mention dangerous, that somebody could pretend otherwise for the purposes of contrariness
None of those you mentioned are an sti or std, which was my point that being hygienically clean is very different to having an sti/d. They are not they same and you can have little to no hygiene & not have an sti/d or by OCD hygienic in every manner & have an sti/d.
And given that some people can't afford period products, do you think that not being able to afford condoms is a bit of a stretch for that person too?
Or do you just think that sex is for the privileged only?
That's why knowledge & free public services need to be there. Stigma alone prevents people from seeking treatment, so just stop.
I have kids so well aware...nursery years are fun for picking up everything going.
So off your high horse"Only if you get off your rapidly clarifying and still partly factually incorrect horse! Condoms are available at any age and free of charge from contraception clinics, Brook centres, sexual health (GUM) clinics and young people's clinics. You should not state otherwise so as to put poorer people off safe sex. More evidence of the dangerous nonsense you continue to peddle on this thread as you frantically try to clarify your first post. | |||
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"Any exchange of bodily fluids is the start of risks as well as hygiene Disagree, hygiene is a personal thing that has little to do with exchanging body fluids, it's brushing teeth, showers/baths, clean clothes etc. You can be smelly, have drity teeth, firth clothes & not have an sti/d so not true either. The 2 are not the same, one is a choice (or state of depression) and other isn't, no one asks to catch an sti/d. Only way to know is to test regularly. Plus everything in life is a risk, there isn't the option of 100% risk free, it's impossible. I'm sorry but lack of hygiene plays an important part because that can lead anywhere to anything sti or not to head lice or even more it's like not washing and having unprotected leading to the creepy crawlies crabs
You're quite correct. It beggars belief someone presents on here with the ludicrous idea that poor hygiene cannot lead to disease. But then this is someone who absurdly but purposefully mixes up expenditure on essentials with spending on luxuries. It is fact that some people forego the former to indulge in the latter.
Poor hygiene from infrequent bathing can cause a buildup of dead skin cells, dirt and sweat on the skin. This buildup may trigger acne, boils and possibly intensify conditions like hyperpigmentation, psoriasis, dermatitis and eczema. Body lice and scabies can develop.Scabies can spread rapidly under crowded and dirty conditions where close body contact is frequent. Institutions such as nursing homes, extended-care facilities, and prisons are often sites of scabies outbreaks.
Lack of dental hygiene causes caries, athlete's foot thrives in uncleaned communal shower area, the list is virtually endless. Take a look at worm infections. Pinworm infection is spread by the fecal-oral route, that is by the transfer of infective pinworm eggs from the anus to someone’s mouth, either directly by dirty hands or indirectly through contaminated clothing, bedding, food, or other articles.
It is incredible, not to mention dangerous, that somebody could pretend otherwise for the purposes of contrariness
None of those you mentioned are an sti or std, which was my point that being hygienically clean is very different to having an sti/d. They are not they same and you can have little to no hygiene & not have an sti/d or by OCD hygienic in every manner & have an sti/d.
And given that some people can't afford period products, do you think that not being able to afford condoms is a bit of a stretch for that person too?
Or do you just think that sex is for the privileged only?
That's why knowledge & free public services need to be there. Stigma alone prevents people from seeking treatment, so just stop.
I have kids so well aware...nursery years are fun for picking up everything going.
So off your high horse
Only if you get off your rapidly clarifying and still partly factually incorrect horse! Condoms are available at any age and free of charge from contraception clinics, Brook centres, sexual health (GUM) clinics and young people's clinics. You should not state otherwise so as to put poorer people off safe sex. More evidence of the dangerous nonsense you continue to peddle on this thread as you frantically try to clarify your first post. " | |||
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"Each to their own! Some will say its OK because I don't do bb! as I don't want to catch anything, however what they dont realise is that they can catch stds via Oral and kissing, Gonorrhea, syphilis, hpv, and more. More education needed. Like I said each to their own, I'd never judge anyone for their own choices, it's not my place to tell them what they should and shouldn't be doing. I'm confident in my own choices, I'll not have anyone tell me differently. I won't do bb and I'd only do oral with someone whom I know. Respect everyone for their own choices. "and you can still catch wearing condoms and what about your hands fingering and forplay as well as oral and other body fluids say squirting ?? everyone should have check ups bb or condoms the only safe sex is no sex lets be very clear about that if you dont want to catch anything then dont have sex of any kind ...simples ...us we rather have sex and regular check ups ... so many safe sex people on here who judge others yet never have check ups ...yep they all stand proud who me no never im always safe but your not its that simple the only way you know your safe is regular check ups the rubbers help but most deffo not safe .... ps we are safe sex with new partners | |||
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"Each to their own! Some will say its OK because I don't do bb! as I don't want to catch anything, however what they dont realise is that they can catch stds via Oral and kissing, Gonorrhea, syphilis, hpv, and more. More education needed. Like I said each to their own, I'd never judge anyone for their own choices, it's not my place to tell them what they should and shouldn't be doing. I'm confident in my own choices, I'll not have anyone tell me differently. I won't do bb and I'd only do oral with someone whom I know. Respect everyone for their own choices.
and you can still catch wearing condoms and what about your hands fingering and forplay as well as oral and other body fluids say squirting ?? everyone should have check ups bb or condoms the only safe sex is no sex lets be very clear about that if you dont want to catch anything then dont have sex of any kind ...simples ...us we rather have sex and regular check ups ... so many safe sex people on here who judge others yet never have check ups ...yep they all stand proud who me no never im always safe but your not its that simple the only way you know your safe is regular check ups the rubbers help but most deffo not safe ....
ps we are safe sex with new partners "Agree 100% | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? Wouldn't describe it as courage." Exactly what I was thinking! | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? Wouldn't describe it as courage. Exactly what I was thinking! " 100% | |||
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. If you're iffy about someone's status have a chat with them? Or insist on using condoms, simples! | |||
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"Any exchange of bodily fluids is the start of risks as well as hygiene Disagree, hygiene is a personal thing that has little to do with exchanging body fluids, it's brushing teeth, showers/baths, clean clothes etc. You can be smelly, have drity teeth, firth clothes & not have an sti/d so not true either. The 2 are not the same, one is a choice (or state of depression) and other isn't, no one asks to catch an sti/d. Only way to know is to test regularly. Plus everything in life is a risk, there isn't the option of 100% risk free, it's impossible. I'm sorry but lack of hygiene plays an important part because that can lead anywhere to anything sti or not to head lice or even more it's like not washing and having unprotected leading to the creepy crawlies crabs
You're quite correct. It beggars belief someone presents on here with the ludicrous idea that poor hygiene cannot lead to disease. But then this is someone who absurdly but purposefully mixes up expenditure on essentials with spending on luxuries. It is fact that some people forego the former to indulge in the latter.
Poor hygiene from infrequent bathing can cause a buildup of dead skin cells, dirt and sweat on the skin. This buildup may trigger acne, boils and possibly intensify conditions like hyperpigmentation, psoriasis, dermatitis and eczema. Body lice and scabies can develop.Scabies can spread rapidly under crowded and dirty conditions where close body contact is frequent. Institutions such as nursing homes, extended-care facilities, and prisons are often sites of scabies outbreaks.
Lack of dental hygiene causes caries, athlete's foot thrives in uncleaned communal shower area, the list is virtually endless. Take a look at worm infections. Pinworm infection is spread by the fecal-oral route, that is by the transfer of infective pinworm eggs from the anus to someone’s mouth, either directly by dirty hands or indirectly through contaminated clothing, bedding, food, or other articles.
It is incredible, not to mention dangerous, that somebody could pretend otherwise for the purposes of contrariness
None of those you mentioned are an sti or std, which was my point that being hygienically clean is very different to having an sti/d. They are not they same and you can have little to no hygiene & not have an sti/d or by OCD hygienic in every manner & have an sti/d.
And given that some people can't afford period products, do you think that not being able to afford condoms is a bit of a stretch for that person too?
Or do you just think that sex is for the privileged only?
That's why knowledge & free public services need to be there. Stigma alone prevents people from seeking treatment, so just stop.
I have kids so well aware...nursery years are fun for picking up everything going.
So off your high horse
Only if you get off your rapidly clarifying and still partly factually incorrect horse! Condoms are available at any age and free of charge from contraception clinics, Brook centres, sexual health (GUM) clinics and young people's clinics. You should not state otherwise so as to put poorer people off safe sex. More evidence of the dangerous nonsense you continue to peddle on this thread as you frantically try to clarify your first post. "I didn't aim to put anyone off, I take it you missed that most clinics, pharmacies & chemists have been severely reduced & operating on skeleton crews for past 2 years then, condom's haven't been readily available nor have check ups unless you have cash to pay for private ones, nor that people still feel stigma towards seeking help or advice & some areas have a lack of services, my point stands on that basis. The frantic is actually ADHD. Thanks though for just clarifying what I already know what my brain does, you on the other hand took it the wrong way & though no larger than what is 'normally available' nor to what actually happens in reality, instead of in an ideal setting. | |||
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"I wonder how people have courage to go for bareback with a stranger or even with someone you met here few times without knowing there 100% clean. Is it lack of knowledge/ self respect/ ignorance? Recently read an article that 'super gonorrhoea' has found in London! Always wanted to find a regular trustworthy lady or a couple to try bb but still no luck. Plus I couldn't bring myself to justify is it worth risking your health? One more important fact to add, BB Oral also a huge risk according to the NHS website.. So no more pussy licking?
People seem to forget the risk there, so are you going to let any one suck your cock? as that's also a risk, and what about kissing?
Well said! I felt there was a tone of judgmentalism in the OP's post.
The only way to be sure of staying 100% clean is to never have intimate contact with anyone...ever.
We in the community are rightly outraged when others pronounce swinging to be dirty, immoral, an affront to 'decent society' (whatever that is) etc.
So to read people commenting on others sexual habits is always disappointing, especially as kink shaming is supposed to be one of the main no-no's of our lifestyle.
Every sexual act carries a risk and it's up to the individual how they manage those risks.
So how about we all just make our own sexual health choices and let others make theirs?"Totally agree. You have a choice not to meet!!!! | |||
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"Every sexual act carries a risk and it's up to the individual how they manage those risks. So how about we all just make our own sexual health choices and let others make theirs?" Except where you have community transmission, it's not just the individual risk. I don't know why people keep repeating an obviously flawed argument??? | |||
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"Every sexual act carries a risk and it's up to the individual how they manage those risks. So how about we all just make our own sexual health choices and let others make theirs? Except where you have community transmission, it's not just the individual risk. I don't know why people keep repeating an obviously flawed argument???" Or why people would ignore all of the well thought out, supported opinions on here to just keep banging their own drum? Your choice is valid, meet people who share your choice. Other people's choices are valid, leave them to meet people who share their choices. Since your choices are different, you'll never meet those people. | |||
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"Every sexual act carries a risk and it's up to the individual how they manage those risks. So how about we all just make our own sexual health choices and let others make theirs? Except where you have community transmission, it's not just the individual risk. I don't know why people keep repeating an obviously flawed argument??? Or why people would ignore all of the well thought out, supported opinions on here to just keep banging their own drum? Your choice is valid, meet people who share your choice. Other people's choices are valid, leave them to meet people who share their choices. Since your choices are different, you'll never meet those people. " This would seem to suggest that it's possible to have different isolated populations all made up of people who share your views. Well, you can if you only have exclusive relationships (like marriage) but I don't think that's what is being suggested here. People have to make individual choices, and they won't all agree. I just get slightly annoyed when some suggest that it's purely an individual choice when it's clearly not true. The reason we aren't talking about people's valid choices about smallpox is because it's been eradicated from the population. Practically speaking, I accept that all you can do is make your own choices, I only wish people wouldn't pretend it doesn't effect others, like everyone could choose which side of the road they drove on and just stick to their own roads. Within a country, a population, all the roads are linked together. How would you enforce that people who have bareback sex only ever meet other people who have made the same choice? I think that would leave people with less freedom to decide for themselves what they do. | |||
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"Every sexual act carries a risk and it's up to the individual how they manage those risks. So how about we all just make our own sexual health choices and let others make theirs? Except where you have community transmission, it's not just the individual risk. I don't know why people keep repeating an obviously flawed argument??? Or why people would ignore all of the well thought out, supported opinions on here to just keep banging their own drum? Your choice is valid, meet people who share your choice. Other people's choices are valid, leave them to meet people who share their choices. Since your choices are different, you'll never meet those people. This would seem to suggest that it's possible to have different isolated populations all made up of people who share your views. Well, you can if you only have exclusive relationships (like marriage) but I don't think that's what is being suggested here. People have to make individual choices, and they won't all agree. I just get slightly annoyed when some suggest that it's purely an individual choice when it's clearly not true. The reason we aren't talking about people's valid choices about smallpox is because it's been eradicated from the population. Practically speaking, I accept that all you can do is make your own choices, I only wish people wouldn't pretend it doesn't effect others, like everyone could choose which side of the road they drove on and just stick to their own roads. Within a country, a population, all the roads are linked together. How would you enforce that people who have bareback sex only ever meet other people who have made the same choice? I think that would leave people with less freedom to decide for themselves what they do." Love the fact that your point includes the word 'enforce'.... The opposite of freedom of choice. It is an individual choice. It's based on your own safety and comfort level. If anyone wants to limit their risk, they can in a hundred ways. The most effective way to reduce risk, is to reduce incidents of risk. The only way to eliminate risk is to eliminate incidents of risk. It's very simple. Your point also infers that people who don't bareback, have never gone bareback with anyone. Does that describe you? I believe that it is a choice for individuals, and it should be clear, open and honestly communicated before any physical contact so that everyone can make an informed choice. I believe that bareback sex carries greater risk than using condoms. I believe that swinging and having multiple sexual partners carries more risk than a monogamous relationship. I believe that a monogamous relationship carries more risk than being celibate. Freedom of choice is exactly that, and both parties are free to meet or not if they decide. There is no such thing as 'safe sex' just safer sex or no sex. | |||
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"Regular testing and safe for me in nearly all settings. Each to their own... Riskiest thing most of us will do is get in a car "I have been getting into cars for over 60 years been in a few accidents but never had more than a stiff neck & a few bruises fatal accidents do happen but there are much more risky activities | |||
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"How would you enforce that people who have bareback sex only ever meet other people who have made the same choice? I think that would leave people with less freedom to decide for themselves what they do." This is what I said, note that it is a question. "Love the fact that your point includes the word 'enforce'.... The opposite of freedom of choice." Yes, this is my point. "It is an individual choice. It's based on your own safety and comfort level. If anyone wants to limit their risk, they can in a hundred ways. The most effective way to reduce risk, is to reduce incidents of risk. The only way to eliminate risk is to eliminate incidents of risk. It's very simple." ... "Your point also infers that people who don't bareback, have never gone bareback with anyone. Does that describe you?" Again, this is the point I was making. That it's not possible to neatly divide everyone into distinct groups. "I believe that it is a choice for individuals, and it should be clear, open and honestly communicated before any physical contact so that everyone can make an informed choice. I believe that bareback sex carries greater risk than using condoms. I believe that swinging and having multiple sexual partners carries more risk than a monogamous relationship. I believe that a monogamous relationship carries more risk than being celibate. Freedom of choice is exactly that, and both parties are free to meet or not if they decide. There is no such thing as 'safe sex' just safer sex or no sex. "All that was confusing, you seemed to be making my point without getting my point.
What are the chances of catching an STI that doesn't exist? | |||
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"How would you enforce that people who have bareback sex only ever meet other people who have made the same choice? I think that would leave people with less freedom to decide for themselves what they do. This is what I said, note that it is a question. Love the fact that your point includes the word 'enforce'.... The opposite of freedom of choice. Yes, this is my point. It is an individual choice. It's based on your own safety and comfort level. If anyone wants to limit their risk, they can in a hundred ways. The most effective way to reduce risk, is to reduce incidents of risk. The only way to eliminate risk is to eliminate incidents of risk. It's very simple. ... Your point also infers that people who don't bareback, have never gone bareback with anyone. Does that describe you? Again, this is the point I was making. That it's not possible to neatly divide everyone into distinct groups. I believe that it is a choice for individuals, and it should be clear, open and honestly communicated before any physical contact so that everyone can make an informed choice. I believe that bareback sex carries greater risk than using condoms. I believe that swinging and having multiple sexual partners carries more risk than a monogamous relationship. I believe that a monogamous relationship carries more risk than being celibate. Freedom of choice is exactly that, and both parties are free to meet or not if they decide. There is no such thing as 'safe sex' just safer sex or no sex.
All that was confusing, you seemed to be making my point without getting my point.
What are the chances of catching an STI that doesn't exist?"Now I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?! You introduced the concept of enforcement, I don't understand why it's a discussion point here. Who's trying to divide people into groups? People can and should risk assess their own interactions. Can't see an issue here? | |||
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"I wasn't going to comment but having seen some shame others , I decided to say a bit Been a nurse for over 20 years, ans worked with young adults for a good portion of that. I've seen so many of them come in embarrassed and ashamed with an STI that can be cleared with a round of antibiotics. I've seen a young lady who gave her virginity to her boyfriend who gave her herpes for it. To say she was devastated was an understatement and I'll remember that for the rest of my life. Why? Because the diseases in themselves are curable or treatable, yet the stigma associated with them is exponentially worse. I don't know if we'll ever get better, but just as we learn to stop shaming others for physical or personal references, we need to stop shaming others for STIs. I'm not saying go forth and have fun unprotected as we do educate to use condoms and take STI tests regularly BUT it doesn't make any of us superior to others based on our personal practices as long as we respect the preferences of our partner and keep them safe. Make sense? OK, I'm done " | |||
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"The only way to completely remove the risk of any STI is complete chastity." This isn't true since you can also eradicate the STI (in theory). Hence my smallpox example. I acknowledge that this is unrealistic in many cases, I'm trying to demonstrate a point. "The alternative is to mitigate risk however you are able and to accept the reality of a possible issue that will need addressing. Condoms can be a part of that mitigation for some but others not. They have to take their own steps to keep themselves and others as safe as is feasible for them and accept that some will not want to meet them." Another way to mitigate the risk is to reduce the prevalence at the population level. Simply, unless you are willing to enforce some barrier between people who make different choices (which I presume we all agree we don't want to), then your individual actions effect other people, not just those you sleep with. To use the driving analogy above, it's not just the risk that you and the people in your car take, but also anyone you might hit. We accept that the only way to have zero accidents would be to completely ban driving and that this would be too limiting, but we also have rules to stop some people being reckless. You can make your own choices about how you drive, but they are within the bounds of what society has agreed is reasonable. If a pedestrian is killed by a driver we ask whether the driver was taking due care, we acknowledge that accidents can happen and so don't assume the cause was recklessness. I'm not making any judgements, I try to work out what is true. Your actions do impact on the wider society whether you like it or not. If you can accept that (which I didn't think should be that hard) *then* you can make a choice about what to do. Risk of getting an STI is two things 1) The chance of being infected IF the other person has an STI 2) The chance the other person has an STI (which is related to how common the STI is) I think the problem is that people are assuming a moral viewpoint on my part, and I'm only objecting to a line of reasoning which doesn't stack up. If someone can point to something I've said which isn't true, then I'm happy to rethink my view. Otherwise it's pointless to have a discussion about what's reasonable if your opinions aren't based on how things work in reality. | |||
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"Every sexual act carries a risk and it's up to the individual how they manage those risks. So how about we all just make our own sexual health choices and let others make theirs? Except where you have community transmission, it's not just the individual risk. I don't know why people keep repeating an obviously flawed argument??? Or why people would ignore all of the well thought out, supported opinions on here to just keep banging their own drum? Your choice is valid, meet people who share your choice. Other people's choices are valid, leave them to meet people who share their choices. Since your choices are different, you'll never meet those people. " I think the trouble is that those of us who are as careful as can be and who don’t have BB sex with strangers still do come across people in clubs that do. As has been mentioned before, the groups are not separate all of the time. Some people are happy to just have condom sex with whoever they like and not worry about what the person has been doing before, but some aren’t. Some wouldn’t want to even have condom sex with someone if they’d been at BB orgy the night before. There are lots of swingers that get involved in both BB and protected sex. They’re not 2 totally separate groups. If they were then no one would care. | |||
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"Every sexual act carries a risk and it's up to the individual how they manage those risks. So how about we all just make our own sexual health choices and let others make theirs? Except where you have community transmission, it's not just the individual risk. I don't know why people keep repeating an obviously flawed argument??? Or why people would ignore all of the well thought out, supported opinions on here to just keep banging their own drum? Your choice is valid, meet people who share your choice. Other people's choices are valid, leave them to meet people who share their choices. Since your choices are different, you'll never meet those people. I think the trouble is that those of us who are as careful as can be and who don’t have BB sex with strangers still do come across people in clubs that do. As has been mentioned before, the groups are not separate all of the time. Some people are happy to just have condom sex with whoever they like and not worry about what the person has been doing before, but some aren’t. Some wouldn’t want to even have condom sex with someone if they’d been at BB orgy the night before. There are lots of swingers that get involved in both BB and protected sex. They’re not 2 totally separate groups. If they were then no one would care. " I see the confusion now. What I meant was that it isn't possible for someone who wants to use condoms to accidentally fuck someone BB, and vice versa. I think testing, understanding and awareness are better protection than just assuming condoms are 'safe' regardless. Put them together and you're about as safe as you can be fucking strangers! | |||
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"The only way to completely remove the risk of any STI is complete chastity. This isn't true since you can also eradicate the STI (in theory). Hence my smallpox example. I acknowledge that this is unrealistic in many cases, I'm trying to demonstrate a point. The alternative is to mitigate risk however you are able and to accept the reality of a possible issue that will need addressing. Condoms can be a part of that mitigation for some but others not. They have to take their own steps to keep themselves and others as safe as is feasible for them and accept that some will not want to meet them. Another way to mitigate the risk is to reduce the prevalence at the population level. Simply, unless you are willing to enforce some barrier between people who make different choices (which I presume we all agree we don't want to), then your individual actions effect other people, not just those you sleep with. To use the driving analogy above, it's not just the risk that you and the people in your car take, but also anyone you might hit. We accept that the only way to have zero accidents would be to completely ban driving and that this would be too limiting, but we also have rules to stop some people being reckless. You can make your own choices about how you drive, but they are within the bounds of what society has agreed is reasonable. If a pedestrian is killed by a driver we ask whether the driver was taking due care, we acknowledge that accidents can happen and so don't assume the cause was recklessness. I'm not making any judgements, I try to work out what is true. Your actions do impact on the wider society whether you like it or not. If you can accept that (which I didn't think should be that hard) *then* you can make a choice about what to do. Risk of getting an STI is two things 1) The chance of being infected IF the other person has an STI 2) The chance the other person has an STI (which is related to how common the STI is) I think the problem is that people are assuming a moral viewpoint on my part, and I'm only objecting to a line of reasoning which doesn't stack up. If someone can point to something I've said which isn't true, then I'm happy to rethink my view. Otherwise it's pointless to have a discussion about what's reasonable if your opinions aren't based on how things work in reality." Being honest, this reasoning demonstrates a lot of 'teflon' thinking. 'It's a problem in our society, what is going to be done about it?' People should take responsibility for their own actions. Shifting impact from individual interactions to society makes it too easy to lose sight of the actual, real outcome of your decisions. If person A fucks person B, BB and infects person B with an STI, what is the outcome? Person B has an STI, not our entire society. Persons A and B then have to make new decisions based on their situations. I understand the concept that's being floated, but I disagree with the lack of accountability it encourages. Worth mentioning, we play as safely as we can, test regularly and keep ourselves informed. But we also believe people have a choice, as we have a choice to interact, or not, with people who make different choices. | |||
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"Every sexual act carries a risk and it's up to the individual how they manage those risks. So how about we all just make our own sexual health choices and let others make theirs? Except where you have community transmission, it's not just the individual risk. I don't know why people keep repeating an obviously flawed argument??? Or why people would ignore all of the well thought out, supported opinions on here to just keep banging their own drum? Your choice is valid, meet people who share your choice. Other people's choices are valid, leave them to meet people who share their choices. Since your choices are different, you'll never meet those people. I think the trouble is that those of us who are as careful as can be and who don’t have BB sex with strangers still do come across people in clubs that do. As has been mentioned before, the groups are not separate all of the time. Some people are happy to just have condom sex with whoever they like and not worry about what the person has been doing before, but some aren’t. Some wouldn’t want to even have condom sex with someone if they’d been at BB orgy the night before. There are lots of swingers that get involved in both BB and protected sex. They’re not 2 totally separate groups. If they were then no one would care. I see the confusion now. What I meant was that it isn't possible for someone who wants to use condoms to accidentally fuck someone BB, and vice versa. I think testing, understanding and awareness are better protection than just assuming condoms are 'safe' regardless. Put them together and you're about as safe as you can be fucking strangers!" Yes that makes sense. I think the muddy waters come when people aren’t up front or don’t think they need to disclose what they do with others. I’m happy to perform oral on men and women unprotected if they are a careful person and take what I would consider reasonable precautions when interacting with others. I’m not happy to do it if that person regularly engages in unprotected sex with multiple other people, even if they get tested regularly. Unless they’re abstaining for 2 or 3 weeks after last having sex to be tested and then waiting another week or so for results then it means nothing. I don’t know anyone on the scene who does that. | |||
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"For anyone who barebacks, PLEASE at least do the following: - get vaccinated against Hepatitis A & B - get vaccinated against HPV - use PREP to reduce HIV risk - use PEP after event if risked HIV exposure Please learn more about the above, whatever your sexuality, gender etc "Bless you for this, great post x | |||
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"The only way to completely remove the risk of any STI is complete chastity. This isn't true since you can also eradicate the STI (in theory). Hence my smallpox example. I acknowledge that this is unrealistic in many cases, I'm trying to demonstrate a point. The alternative is to mitigate risk however you are able and to accept the reality of a possible issue that will need addressing. Condoms can be a part of that mitigation for some but others not. They have to take their own steps to keep themselves and others as safe as is feasible for them and accept that some will not want to meet them. Another way to mitigate the risk is to reduce the prevalence at the population level. Simply, unless you are willing to enforce some barrier between people who make different choices (which I presume we all agree we don't want to), then your individual actions effect other people, not just those you sleep with. To use the driving analogy above, it's not just the risk that you and the people in your car take, but also anyone you might hit. We accept that the only way to have zero accidents would be to completely ban driving and that this would be too limiting, but we also have rules to stop some people being reckless. You can make your own choices about how you drive, but they are within the bounds of what society has agreed is reasonable. The driver analogy is an interesting one. Every day, a huge % of the population get in a car, at least twice a day and drive on a public highway. There are hundreds of potential risks caused by other drivers even in a short trip. Most drivers don't buy a tank, wear body armour, or only drive on empty roads. Some of us buy safer cars, take extra driver and first aid training, and maintain focus while we're out, but we could still be hurt by another driver. If someone dings their car, cracks a bumper or smashes a light, I'd be surprised if they were isolated and attacked for their carelessness. It's a daily occurrence and were used to it. The difference is the level of stigma still attached to sexual health, and the staggering levels of ignorance about STIs and sexual risks. If a pedestrian is killed by a driver we ask whether the driver was taking due care, we acknowledge that accidents can happen and so don't assume the cause was recklessness. I'm not making any judgements, I try to work out what is true. Your actions do impact on the wider society whether you like it or not. If you can accept that (which I didn't think should be that hard) *then* you can make a choice about what to do. Risk of getting an STI is two things 1) The chance of being infected IF the other person has an STI 2) The chance the other person has an STI (which is related to how common the STI is) I think the problem is that people are assuming a moral viewpoint on my part, and I'm only objecting to a line of reasoning which doesn't stack up. If someone can point to something I've said which isn't true, then I'm happy to rethink my view. Otherwise it's pointless to have a discussion about what's reasonable if your opinions aren't based on how things work in reality." I'd suggest that education and awareness work better than restriction, or castigation. | |||
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"Every sexual act carries a risk and it's up to the individual how they manage those risks. So how about we all just make our own sexual health choices and let others make theirs? Except where you have community transmission, it's not just the individual risk. I don't know why people keep repeating an obviously flawed argument??? Or why people would ignore all of the well thought out, supported opinions on here to just keep banging their own drum? Your choice is valid, meet people who share your choice. Other people's choices are valid, leave them to meet people who share their choices. Since your choices are different, you'll never meet those people. I think the trouble is that those of us who are as careful as can be and who don’t have BB sex with strangers still do come across people in clubs that do. As has been mentioned before, the groups are not separate all of the time. Some people are happy to just have condom sex with whoever they like and not worry about what the person has been doing before, but some aren’t. Some wouldn’t want to even have condom sex with someone if they’d been at BB orgy the night before. There are lots of swingers that get involved in both BB and protected sex. They’re not 2 totally separate groups. If they were then no one would care. I see the confusion now. What I meant was that it isn't possible for someone who wants to use condoms to accidentally fuck someone BB, and vice versa. I think testing, understanding and awareness are better protection than just assuming condoms are 'safe' regardless. Put them together and you're about as safe as you can be fucking strangers! Yes that makes sense. I think the muddy waters come when people aren’t up front or don’t think they need to disclose what they do with others. I’m happy to perform oral on men and women unprotected if they are a careful person and take what I would consider reasonable precautions when interacting with others. I’m not happy to do it if that person regularly engages in unprotected sex with multiple other people, even if they get tested regularly. Unless they’re abstaining for 2 or 3 weeks after last having sex to be tested and then waiting another week or so for results then it means nothing. I don’t know anyone on the scene who does that. " And that's the bit that makes it hard for everyone! Whether through embarrassment, malice or lack.of awareness, not everyone is 100% honest or open. That's where we all take a risk with swinging. | |||
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"And to clarify, what I said above isn’t because I think the person is dirty, or that STD’s are dirty, it’s just outside of my appetite for risk. I’m a prevention rather cure type of person. " Always safer to know where your line is, and stick to it | |||
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"Being honest, this reasoning demonstrates a lot of 'teflon' thinking. 'It's a problem in our society, what is going to be done about it?' People should take responsibility for their own actions. Shifting impact from individual interactions to society makes it too easy to lose sight of the actual, real outcome of your decisions. If person A fucks person B, BB and infects person B with an STI, what is the outcome? Person B has an STI, not our entire society. Persons A and B then have to make new decisions based on their situations. I understand the concept that's being floated, but I disagree with the lack of accountability it encourages. Worth mentioning, we play as safely as we can, test regularly and keep ourselves informed. But we also believe people have a choice, as we have a choice to interact, or not, with people who make different choices." I agree that we shouldn't shift the responsibility to "society". It's more dynamic in my mind, doing what's right for yourself, but also considering the wider implications. Whether you use condoms, get tested, limit the number of partners you have, are all different strategies, and that's where I think we can have discussions. The issue is that the less caution other people use, the higher STI rates become, and the more restrictions I have to place on my own behaviour to maintain a level of risk I'm comfortable with. On the other hand, if everyone is equally cautious *enough* that infection rates go down, then everyone can start to be more relaxed. When some people say that bb isn't that risky, even with multiple random partners, it's because other people are being cautious and keeping rates down. That seems unfair to me. So rather than trying to put blame on society, and I get your point about that, I'm viewing a healthy society as a shared resource that we all benefit from and should take some responsibility for. Your own individual behaviour has the most immediate direct impact on your health, but over time, the wider effects build up. Imagine if we *all* were celibate/exclusive for a few months and had mass testing before resuming open sex again... we could theoretically eliminate sti's and all have massive BB orgies without any risk. It would never happen in reality because there are always some people who would do their own thing and keep sti's circulating. Anyway, point is that you can't just look at a behaviour as right or wrong, but you have to consider the context, and we all play a small part in creating that context. Annoyance wasn't the best way to start a conversation on my part, glad we are understanding each other better now. | |||
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"... I'm a bareback gal all the way, I'm checked regularly, I take the Prep pill to keep myself safe (I personally wouldn't bareback without prep) and I absolutely wouldn't have it any other way. My body my choice. I consider myself responsible and am sexually healthy in every way. Of course it makes someone dirty, we really have adults here who think like little children? The fuck is going on here
What's going on here is personal choice. People are free to choose their own level of protection, or not, according to what they're comfortable with.
That doesn't make any one dirty and when we talk about irresponsibility that depends on each person's perspective.
After all, many people would consider swinging itself to be dirty and irresponsible, regardless of whether you're into bareback or not.
So true I dont understand why people go on rants about bareback or not, its your choice as an ADULT to decide how you play.
".................................. Absolutely true, but at least allow the choice be an informed one. Threads like this are useful if only to remind us all of things we don't know or choose to ignore. Like the old AIDS slogan said "Don't Die of Ignorance" | |||
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