FabSwingers.com mobile

Join us FREE, we're FREE to use

Web's largest swingers site since 2006.

Already registered?
Login here

Back to forum list
Back to Scotland

Is she right ?

Jump to newest
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

So is Nicolas correct and the majority of Scotland wants independence?

Let's have a Fab unofficial vote.

No political views or comments please , to avoid debate or argument. just simply yes or no.

Should Scotland be independent. ?

I'm a NO

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *orny harrycoolMan
over a year ago

fife

No wee have already voted on it in 2014

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *earded blossomCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

No.

John

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *andsCouple
over a year ago

Edin

Nope

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley

No.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mibee... Depends what the hot women say.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes for me

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *luebell888Woman
over a year ago

Glasgowish

No.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was a Yes....now I'm not so sure.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I have a pm yes vote too

Keeping it honest vote

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ugehandsMan
over a year ago

Fife/ Newcastle

It's a no from me!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ringles0510Woman
over a year ago

Central Borders

Yes from me x

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ering SeaMan
over a year ago

Penicuik

Absolutely.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely yes!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *evilsAdvocate94Woman
over a year ago

edinburgh

Yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Will never work as the second it's a yes what's to stop folk just screeching the question wasnt asked right or some such drivel like is being done now

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *bostCouple
over a year ago

glasgow

Yes from us.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a yes from me

But alas will never happen.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rock213Man
over a year ago

falkirk

Oh it's a yes from me

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a yes from me

But alas will never happen. "
it will

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *tormin1875Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Absolutely YES

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ayRosesWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Was yes then, despite misgivings, absolutely yes now. There's nothing left in the UK now that I want to be associated with.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *erriAnneTV/TS
over a year ago

The shire

No shes not correct and the majority don't.

Various polls state the facts.

She has one thing on her mind and won't let it go.

The nation voted to remain then the UK voted to leave.

We are a small island and the last thing we need is 4 governments dividin us.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry england voted to leave.

Scotland did not.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No from me....

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Brexit in Scotland - Statistics & Facts

Share of vote for leave.

38%

Nunber of votes cast

3,776.751

Share of votes to remain

62%

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes to another vote and see where the ground lies......

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

100% yes from me

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We were both a yes the first time, and we still are x

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *he way you moveMan
over a year ago

Inverness


"Mibee... Depends what the hot women say.

"

This ha ha.... but I'm yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *mmixtapeCouple
over a year ago

middle earth

It's a yes, there are far smaller countries out there who do amazingly without needing England

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *xybumWoman
over a year ago

East Kilbride

Yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a yes, there are far smaller countries out there who do amazingly without needing England"
England have greed in there eyes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes all the way

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a yes, there are far smaller countries out there who do amazingly without needing EnglandEngland have greed in there eyes "

I feel sorry for most normal working folk in England. They get shafted too.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *uiceTerryMan
over a year ago

Perth

Yes last time. Yes next time

It's going to come at some point.

Also not to get political but independence is not just SNP. You can be for it and not like SNP

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nope. If there is any hope for humanity we need more unions, not fewer.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a yes, there are far smaller countries out there who do amazingly without needing EnglandEngland have greed in there eyes

I feel sorry for most normal working folk in England. They get shafted too."
agree doggy at least we have free prescriptions and education.

England is going down the tubes fast!! Just wish folk would see that they are taking us with them!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Nope. If there is any hope for humanity we need more unions, not fewer. "
we don't have a union

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Nope. If there is any hope for humanity we need more unions, not fewer. we don't have a union "

I mean union in the true sense of the word. As in joined.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *earded blossomCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Wish another party not associated with Westminster run in Scotland so then people would see the split between Scotland as most vote for SNP purely to vote against England but doesn't mean they want independence, even then people don't vote because they know it's pointless

John

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ighlander80884Man
over a year ago

Inverness

I really wish the SNP would get on with running Scotland, improve education, business, health.

Make Scotland a great place, then they would have more of a claim to independence. Get on with the job you were voted in to do.

I voted remain as I thought being in EU was better for Scotland, but now I would vote leave.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wish another party not associated with Westminster run in Scotland so then people would see the split between Scotland as most vote for SNP purely to vote against England but doesn't mean they want independence, even then people don't vote because they know it's pointless

John "
voting SNP is a vote against tories not england.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *imbobaMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Was a no at the first vote. Now a yes.

Divorced since the first so now appreciate the benefits of independence. (Last bit tongue in cheek). But true.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes again for me

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *earded blossomCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Wish another party not associated with Westminster run in Scotland so then people would see the split between Scotland as most vote for SNP purely to vote against England but doesn't mean they want independence, even then people don't vote because they know it's pointless

John voting SNP is a vote against tories not england."

Surely a vote for Labour would've been a vote against the Tories? Could've got them out of power if Scotland got behind Labour

John

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *bostCouple
over a year ago

glasgow

We’d vote yes, but are split re: SNP. General elections SNP. Scottish elections, won’t be SNP.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I really wish the SNP would get on with running Scotland, improve education, business, health.

Make Scotland a great place, then they would have more of a claim to independence. Get on with the job you were voted in to do.

I voted remain as I thought being in EU was better for Scotland, but now I would vote leave. "
was has England improved nothing

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wish another party not associated with Westminster run in Scotland so then people would see the split between Scotland as most vote for SNP purely to vote against England but doesn't mean they want independence, even then people don't vote because they know it's pointless

John voting SNP is a vote against tories not england.

Surely a vote for Labour would've been a vote against the Tories? Could've got them out of power if Scotland got behind Labour

John "
labour was always going to be a wasted vote.

SNP get as many actual scottish voices in Westminster.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *nferno sausageMan
over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

Yes.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wish another party not associated with Westminster run in Scotland so then people would see the split between Scotland as most vote for SNP purely to vote against England but doesn't mean they want independence, even then people don't vote because they know it's pointless

John voting SNP is a vote against tories not england.

Surely a vote for Labour would've been a vote against the Tories? Could've got them out of power if Scotland got behind Labour

John labour was always going to be a wasted vote.

SNP get as many actual scottish voices in Westminster."
snp don't get answers when they question them. The tories are running scared

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *eardyBikerMan
over a year ago

nr stonehaven

Was apolitical...now very much yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ee-YinWoman
over a year ago

nr bathgate

I was a yes last time and definitely a yes again.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *igs72Man
over a year ago

motherwell

No and still no

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Was a no, now a yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes always yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Looks like the "yes" have the votes. On fab anyway.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes last time but iv had doubts since! so need more info ...

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ittleRed18Woman
over a year ago

Aberdeen

No thanks!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

YES!!! YES!! Did I say YES!!!!!!!!!!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Massive yes from us and all our family,there is nothing for us in this so called union

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wish another party not associated with Westminster run in Scotland so then people would see the split between Scotland as most vote for SNP purely to vote against England but doesn't mean they want independence, even then people don't vote because they know it's pointless

John voting SNP is a vote against tories not england.

Surely a vote for Labour would've been a vote against the Tories? Could've got them out of power if Scotland got behind Labour

John "

You do know that labour are not a scottish party ? They have to go by the rules of their Westminster masters and are nothing but red tories how stood and celebrated with them in 2014 and now thats why they have been wiped out and are an irrelevance in scottish politics now

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *xycpl699Couple
over a year ago

kilmarnock

Always yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Looking at this small slice of society it would seem Nicola is correct in voicing her opinion on the wishes of the majority of Scots .

If she gets her vote I fear we will be on the path to higher taxes, the end of free prescriptions and education , massive job losses, communities ruined , the most devided this country will have ever experienced and lastly a country sent from one governing body to a European governight body. Yes independence will be awesome. !!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Looking at this small slice of society it would seem Nicola is correct in voicing her opinion on the wishes of the majority of Scots .

If she gets her vote I fear we will be on the path to higher taxes, the end of free prescriptions and education , massive job losses, communities ruined , the most devided this country will have ever experienced and lastly a country sent from one governing body to a European governight body. Yes independence will be awesome. !! "

Would rather a slightly higher taxation to provide the services that are already enjoyed by the ppl of Scotland.. whereas in England they are taxed and pay for the services also. everything has tax added from food to clothing to fuel yet country is still on its knees.

Scotland must keep its own government and stand up for us and not be lost in the uk.. for years we have had a different opinion to England and has shown repeatedly in the way in which we have voted. That’s democracy and freedom of choice it’s not all set in stone ppl are allowed to change their minds.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *oredcouple1TV/TS
over a year ago

kirkcaldy

Never

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No for me

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *iona38ddTV/TS
over a year ago

north east fife

Never never never always be no from me

But I am allowed an opinion or I think I am

Unless the minority tell me I am not as they seem to be telling me everything else I can’t say or do

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For a thread that states “No political views or comments please , to avoid debate or argument. just simply yes or no.” there’s a lot of opinions

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *hirlpoolguy37Man
over a year ago

anywhere

It’s a definite no never not a chance from me

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am not a Rangers supporter

so its a

YES

from me

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ilarx2Couple
over a year ago

paisley

Yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *earded blossomCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I am not a Rangers supporter

so its a

YES

from me"

What difference would that make? And why did you feel the need to make such a ridiculous comment?

John

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *hirlpoolguy37Man
over a year ago

anywhere


"I am not a Rangers supporter

so its a

YES

from me"

So only rangers fans don’t want independence ??

Nothing to do with person choices etc all purely sectarian... some folk make you laugh

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am not a Rangers supporter

so its a

YES

from me"
why bring football into it

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am not a Rangers supporter

so its a

YES

from mewhy bring football into it "

because in Glasgow, Kilmarnock, Larkhall and various other locations

Football determines what you vote and majority of rangers fans are unionists fact.

this comment was tongue and cheek but so many on here take things so dam serious and try to get brownie points by pulling up comments (quite laughable actually)

but if you are unaware that the majority of rangers fans are unionist and detest not only independence but also the snp then a little education is required.

question;

what colour are the job centre signs in larkhall

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Exactly I am also a Rangers fan but yes I support independence and I also support a free United Ireland.

I used to work for Scottish Enterprise and did a local economic development programme with them and did a feasibility study on what would happen if we went on our own

This was in the build up to Donald Dewar and Devolution

Using facts and figures at the time we proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that once the shackles of this dead Union were severed Scotland could survive and prosper well on her own.

The UK government knew this and has done since Thatcher and the Indy vote of 1978/9 and have pulled out every dirty lie, propaganda, vow to stop people from voting YES.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *entralscotscpl7Couple
over a year ago

Falkirk

Should this not be in the politics forum under "the people voted no" category.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *earded blossomCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I am not a Rangers supporter

so its a

YES

from mewhy bring football into it

because in Glasgow, Kilmarnock, Larkhall and various other locations

Football determines what you vote and majority of rangers fans are unionists fact.

this comment was tongue and cheek but so many on here take things so dam serious and try to get brownie points by pulling up comments (quite laughable actually)

but if you are unaware that the majority of rangers fans are unionist and detest not only independence but also the snp then a little education is required.

question;

what colour are the job centre signs in larkhall "

The laughable part is your assumptions

John

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, 100%.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The laughable part is your assumptions

John "

no assumptions John, just facts

sadly I have family members exactly that way, and friends/offshore work colleagues who live in larkhall who have artificial turf which is blue!!!!!

perhaps you need to get out in the world and see what is actually going on in areas

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *bolton88Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Yes.

Been doing the union long enough and Tories seem to think going it alone is much better so why not give it a go ourselves?

Honestly, not looking for a fight but there's a lot more reason to it than just the above

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *earded blossomCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

The laughable part is your assumptions

John

no assumptions John, just facts

sadly I have family members exactly that way, and friends/offshore work colleagues who live in larkhall who have artificial turf which is blue!!!!!

perhaps you need to get out in the world and see what is actually going on in areas"

Trust me I'm well travelled, it's not the 80's anymore while it still goes on in small communites it's far from it within the greater support step out of the schemes now and again

John

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *rgoodnbadMan
over a year ago

greenock

It's a yes from me

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It was a yes

now it's a no

If they do another one say 5 years post brexit when folk realise we don't need to jump back into bed with the EU then it will be a yes from me

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why would anyone want Scotland to leave Britain just so we can become a European country? Look what happend to Southern Ireland when they did it its a no from me

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am not a Rangers supporter

so its a

YES

from mewhy bring football into it

because in Glasgow, Kilmarnock, Larkhall and various other locations

Football determines what you vote and majority of rangers fans are unionists fact.

this comment was tongue and cheek but so many on here take things so dam serious and try to get brownie points by pulling up comments (quite laughable actually)

but if you are unaware that the majority of rangers fans are unionist and detest not only independence but also the snp then a little education is required.

question;

what colour are the job centre signs in larkhall "

Quite simply moronic and condescending

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *bolton88Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

because in Glasgow, Kilmarnock, Larkhall and various other locations

Football determines what you vote and majority of rangers fans are unionists fact.

"

If this is true then that's a scary thought cause then we become a nation of sheep and Don't think for ourselves.

I'd like to think that people would listen to both sides of the argument, and come to those own conclusions however I know too many people who don't have the mindset for politics or can't be bothered in actuality taking an interest in it all and just vote what thier parents voted for.

I have lost friends over this whole independent just cause they are set in thier ways and will not listen to any other argument or facts.

I'm not trying to turn them, just asking to do some research before committing.

There are some good points to stay with the union but I personally would like to see change.

Either way it goes people will never be happy.

I accepted the No vote last time and moved on.

Not happy about coming out the EU but I can see some benefits and accept the majority vote

But if your giving me another bite at the cherry them your dam right I will vote again

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ero StressMan
over a year ago

Scotland

No way we would never survive the indi wote they banged on about the oil money will keep us alive oh look it's dead already they now base there indi vote on we want back in Europe but in the build up to the indi vote Europe told us that we would not be accepted into europe on our own because we dont offer anything the longer she is in power the more I see that she is more full of shit than anybody else tbh and the less I trust her since SNP have been in all they bang on about is independence and frankly I'm more bored of hearing about that than I am about brexit

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ero StressMan
over a year ago

Scotland

Also SNP said themselves once in a lifetime vote till they lost and then asked for another vote every day since we are a democracy and we voted accept it and move on

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also SNP said themselves once in a lifetime vote till they lost and then asked for another vote every day since we are a democracy and we voted accept it and move on"
the Scottish people want another vote not just snp. Regardless what they said. An Scotland will fight for another independence. As it what we deserve

Fed up On the corruption of the torie party

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also SNP said themselves once in a lifetime vote till they lost and then asked for another vote every day since we are a democracy and we voted accept it and move on"

That old chestnut lol

I think things have changed since 2014

Scotland’s voice consistently ignored down down south is only fuel for the fire for independence and I hope it comes soon. Watching little England play their SNP bad bullshit is getting tiresome, watching Farages speech at the Eu parliament was funny as every word he said is the way Scotland feels about being governed by Westminster. The Little tick on the UKs back. If we’re that insignificant to Westminster let us go.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *bolton88Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Also SNP said themselves once in a lifetime vote till they lost and then asked for another vote every day since we are a democracy and we voted accept it and move on"

Your right and on the other side of that you had the government saying that staying in the union was the ONLY way to stay in the EU.

Oops

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ltKittyWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Yes.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The “Once in a lifetime” was a jibe made by a Westminster back bencher and has been the poster campaign with ALL the unionist parties since.

Nobody within the independence movement ever made the comment

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *razytimesinloveCouple
over a year ago

SW Scotland

I’m all for independence when the split is clearly lined out and arranged before hand. Until then I’m a firm no. People blindly wanting independence should look at the fiasco that’s been brexit.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *luebell888Woman
over a year ago

Glasgowish


"The “Once in a lifetime” was a jibe made by a Westminster back bencher and has been the poster campaign with ALL the unionist parties since.

Nobody within the independence movement ever made the comment

"

Yes they did. You can google it and watch numerous clips of both Nicola and Alex stating it on different occassions.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The “Once in a lifetime” was a jibe made by a Westminster back bencher and has been the poster campaign with ALL the unionist parties since.

Nobody within the independence movement ever made the comment

Yes they did. You can google it and watch numerous clips of both Nicola and Alex stating it on different occassions."

The material change in circumstances clause overrides the once in a generation point. Being pulled out the EU against our will is that change.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/01/20 14:39:50]

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *luebell888Woman
over a year ago

Glasgowish


"The “Once in a lifetime” was a jibe made by a Westminster back bencher and has been the poster campaign with ALL the unionist parties since.

Nobody within the independence movement ever made the comment

Yes they did. You can google it and watch numerous clips of both Nicola and Alex stating it on different occassions.

The material change in circumstances clause overrides the once in a generation point. Being pulled out the EU against our will is that change."

But you want to be independent so surely coming out of Europe is a step in the right direction?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *inky KatzCouple
over a year ago

Scotland

We are both YES!!!!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's an absolute yes from me. Even if you don't agree with the SNP we can always elect a party that will represent and be directly accountable to us all here. We have to start somewhere.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm a little confused.. I thought the question was:

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

So Scotland didn't vote to stay in as that wasn't the question.. Scotland voted to stay in the United Kingdom.. The United Kingdom voted to leave.. Or maybe I am wrong.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh and as for the once in a lifetime non sense......shall we just let Westminster call elections/referendums whenever and as often as they feel like it? As a sovereign nation it should be our right alone.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The “Once in a lifetime” was a jibe made by a Westminster back bencher and has been the poster campaign with ALL the unionist parties since.

Nobody within the independence movement ever made the comment

Yes they did. You can google it and watch numerous clips of both Nicola and Alex stating it on different occassions.

The material change in circumstances clause overrides the once in a generation point. Being pulled out the EU against our will is that change.

But you want to be independent so surely coming out of Europe is a step in the right direction?"

Independence isn't about isolation. I can't speak for every yes voter but I'm sick of Tory governments I didn't vote for imposing the ideology they want. The EU has it's own issues sure, but I think we're better off in the EU and away from Tory rule.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *luebell888Woman
over a year ago

Glasgowish


"The “Once in a lifetime” was a jibe made by a Westminster back bencher and has been the poster campaign with ALL the unionist parties since.

Nobody within the independence movement ever made the comment

Yes they did. You can google it and watch numerous clips of both Nicola and Alex stating it on different occassions.

The material change in circumstances clause overrides the once in a generation point. Being pulled out the EU against our will is that change.

But you want to be independent so surely coming out of Europe is a step in the right direction?

Independence isn't about isolation. I can't speak for every yes voter but I'm sick of Tory governments I didn't vote for imposing the ideology they want. The EU has it's own issues sure, but I think we're better off in the EU and away from Tory rule."

So if Labour were in Goverment you would be happy to stay in the UK?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So if Labour were in Goverment you would be happy to stay in the UK?"
.

Two issues with that.

1. The current Labour government is a shambles and won't be getting into power anytime soon.

2. History suggests the Westminster government will flip between the Tory party and Labour every few years.

So how do you guarantee the Tories don't have direct rule over Scotland? Independence I believe.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm still a no

There are too many unknowns and in answered questions for me

Also would nicola ever say there is not a majority, its how they play the numbers and what poll they use, she is a politician and as such I don't trust them, any of them lol

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ornyone30Man
over a year ago

ABERDEEN

Yes then and now. There is a better way for Scotland.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ornyone30Man
over a year ago

ABERDEEN


"I'm a little confused.. I thought the question was:

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

So Scotland didn't vote to stay in as that wasn't the question.. Scotland voted to stay in the United Kingdom.. The United Kingdom voted to leave.. Or maybe I am wrong. "

Correct....your wrong

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm a little confused.. I thought the question was:

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

So Scotland didn't vote to stay in as that wasn't the question.. Scotland voted to stay in the United Kingdom.. The United Kingdom voted to leave.. Or maybe I am wrong.

Correct....your wrong"

Could you enlighten me as to how I am wrong then?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm still a no

There are too many unknowns and in answered questions for me

Also would nicola ever say there is not a majority, its how they play the numbers and what poll they use, she is a politician and as such I don't trust them, any of them lol"
read the facts of the brexit vote

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did."

Not true.. There were People in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all voted to leave... The cumulative voted for leave..

The majority of Scotland voted against independence

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The majority of scotland voted to stay in the EU but there you go we are dragged out.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The majority of scotland voted to stay in the EU but there you go we are dragged out."
not fir long

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Just a snippet of factual information on EU rule we may have if independence ever happens.

Cucumbers and bananas had to be practically straight before being fit for sale.

Bottled water manufacturers had to remove any labelling that would suggest drinking water would fight dehydration.

EU experts deemed diabetics should be banned from driving as being unfit to drive.

Eggs cannot be sold by the dozen but by the kilo.

Hoover suction power was a problem too, by too much suction lmao, hoovers are now limited to a maximum 1600 watts.

Most of these barmy rules won't affect our normal lives but I'm more concerned with the ones the EU will impose on us after becoming independent. But most importantly what will the "club" cost us as an independent country and where will we find this money. ????

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Someone been reading the sun headlines again?

Seriously?

So when you go on holiday to benidorm are your bananas all straight?

Come on your only hearing headlines the tories are putting out on the newspapers..guess what..OWNED by billionaires funding the Tories

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes for my household. Sick of the austerity forced on us by Westminster and our nation being ignored and being disrespected at every turn.

The chancellor has today announced more local council cuts after promising the end of austerity and that no more cuts would be forthcoming! Can’t trust a word that comes out or the Tories mouths.

Yougov have just released a poll showing independence holding a slight lead for the first time ever in one of their polls.

Too many people believe the biased mainstream media who are worked from the back by Westminster.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Just a snippet of factual information on EU rule we may have if independence ever happens.

Cucumbers and bananas had to be practically straight before being fit for sale.

Bottled water manufacturers had to remove any labelling that would suggest drinking water would fight dehydration.

EU experts deemed diabetics should be banned from driving as being unfit to drive.

Eggs cannot be sold by the dozen but by the kilo.

Hoover suction power was a problem too, by too much suction lmao, hoovers are now limited to a maximum 1600 watts.

Most of these barmy rules won't affect our normal lives but I'm more concerned with the ones the EU will impose on us after becoming independent. But most importantly what will the "club" cost us as an independent country and where will we find this money. ????"

I will respond to my own post if that allowed in here.

I pay 40 % tax on some earnings, everyone in Scotland should prepare themselves for the same . Once independence is won, Scots voted for it , now you will need to pay for it to make it work.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *erriAnneTV/TS
over a year ago

The shire


"The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did."

Think you'll find the UK as a whole voted to leave.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have no problem paying tax that's staying in my own country.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did.

Think you'll find the UK as a whole voted to leave. "
nope.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ringles0510Woman
over a year ago

Central Borders


"Just a snippet of factual information on EU rule we may have if independence ever happens.

Cucumbers and bananas had to be practically straight before being fit for sale.

Bottled water manufacturers had to remove any labelling that would suggest drinking water would fight dehydration.

EU experts deemed diabetics should be banned from driving as being unfit to drive.

Eggs cannot be sold by the dozen but by the kilo.

Hoover suction power was a problem too, by too much suction lmao, hoovers are now limited to a maximum 1600 watts.

Most of these barmy rules won't affect our normal lives but I'm more concerned with the ones the EU will impose on us after becoming independent. But most importantly what will the "club" cost us as an independent country and where will we find this money. ????"
v

Most of these "barmy rules" are totally non existent. No wait.... All of them! Where in the world did you get this from??

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did.

Think you'll find the UK as a whole voted to leave. nope."

Could you explain why you're saying no? The majority of Scotland voted to remain.. That is true but the cumulative vote of all united Kingdom was to leave.. Or are you implying that the Scottish votes that contributed to the uk majority vote don't count?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I have no problem paying tax that's staying in my own country."

That's the thing though it won't be , it will go to your EU club. Not to mention all those new MEP,s that will need paying for.

Ps my bananas post were not sun headlines, they were all factual EU directives.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lol obviously they dont count as the majority of scotland voted to remain as did Wales.but no matter if every Scot or welsh voted to remain England will always be the majority vote.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lol obviously they dont count as the majority of scotland voted to remain as did Wales.but no matter if every Scot or welsh voted to remain England will always be the majority vote."

I think if you look at the breakdown of the votes by Country if every Scot and Welsh person voted to remain then remain would have won as only 53 per cent of England voted leave.. But let's not let facts get in the way.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lol obviously they dont count as the majority of scotland voted to remain as did Wales.but no matter if every Scot or welsh voted to remain England will always be the majority vote.

I think if you look at the breakdown of the votes by Country if every Scot and Welsh person voted to remain then remain would have won as only 53 per cent of England voted leave.. But let's not let facts get in the way. "

England have about 55 Million votes, Scotland and Wales combined have about 8 Million. That would suggest England have the majority of votes. Which to go back to an earlier point is why the Tories keep getting into power.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lol obviously they dont count as the majority of scotland voted to remain as did Wales.but no matter if every Scot or welsh voted to remain England will always be the majority vote.

I think if you look at the breakdown of the votes by Country if every Scot and Welsh person voted to remain then remain would have won as only 53 per cent of England voted leave.. But let's not let facts get in the way.

England have about 55 Million votes, Scotland and Wales combined have about 8 Million. That would suggest England have the majority of votes. Which to go back to an earlier point is why the Tories keep getting into power."

But not everyone voted, and of those that voted not everyone voted to leave.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Scotland has NEVER voted for a tory government but by the english majority we get them all the same.

So tell me how that's a fair government?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Scotland has NEVER voted for a tory government but by the english majority we get them all the same.

So tell me how that's a fair government? "
they never have an never will be fair as it proven allready many a times but yet there still some in Scotland that's votes for them.. I just never understood it

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Just a snippet of factual information on EU rule we may have if independence ever happens.

Cucumbers and bananas had to be practically straight before being fit for sale.

Bottled water manufacturers had to remove any labelling that would suggest drinking water would fight dehydration.

EU experts deemed diabetics should be banned from driving as being unfit to drive.

Eggs cannot be sold by the dozen but by the kilo.

Hoover suction power was a problem too, by too much suction lmao, hoovers are now limited to a maximum 1600 watts.

Most of these barmy rules won't affect our normal lives but I'm more concerned with the ones the EU will impose on us after becoming independent. But most importantly what will the "club" cost us as an independent country and where will we find this money. ????v

Most of these "barmy rules" are totally non existent. No wait.... All of them! Where in the world did you get this from??"

Your right princes one of my barmy rules was false, last year they further reduced hoover wattage from 1600 to 900 watts.

All barmy but true.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/01/20 17:27:17]

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *erriAnneTV/TS
over a year ago

The shire


"The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did.

Think you'll find the UK as a whole voted to leave. nope."

Nope???? Omfg really???? You need to have a look at the result again. The UK voted to leave it wasn't down to countries or constituencies it was person for person.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did.

Think you'll find the UK as a whole voted to leave. nope.

Nope???? Omfg really???? You need to have a look at the result again. The UK voted to leave it wasn't down to countries or constituencies it was person for person."

You're absolutely right, this is a core argument for independence.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *erriAnneTV/TS
over a year ago

The shire


"The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did.

Think you'll find the UK as a whole voted to leave. nope.

Nope???? Omfg really???? You need to have a look at the result again. The UK voted to leave it wasn't down to countries or constituencies it was person for person.

You're absolutely right, this is a core argument for independence. "

It's really not because person for person in Scotland means wee Jimmy will lose again

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did.

Think you'll find the UK as a whole voted to leave. nope.

Nope???? Omfg really???? You need to have a look at the result again. The UK voted to leave it wasn't down to countries or constituencies it was person for person.

You're absolutely right, this is a core argument for independence.

It's really not because person for person in Scotland means wee Jimmy will lose again "

If an independent Scotland voted. We wouldn't be leaving the EU. Fact.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *erriAnneTV/TS
over a year ago

The shire


"The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did.

Think you'll find the UK as a whole voted to leave. nope.

Nope???? Omfg really???? You need to have a look at the result again. The UK voted to leave it wasn't down to countries or constituencies it was person for person.

You're absolutely right, this is a core argument for independence.

It's really not because person for person in Scotland means wee Jimmy will lose again

If an independent Scotland voted. We wouldn't be leaving the EU. Fact."

That the same as me saying if my auntie Susan had a cock she'd be my uncle.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did.

Think you'll find the UK as a whole voted to leave. nope.

Nope???? Omfg really???? You need to have a look at the result again. The UK voted to leave it wasn't down to countries or constituencies it was person for person.

You're absolutely right, this is a core argument for independence.

It's really not because person for person in Scotland means wee Jimmy will lose again

If an independent Scotland voted. We wouldn't be leaving the EU. Fact.

That the same as me saying if my auntie Susan had a cock she'd be my uncle. "

Only if your auntie Susan was able to get a cock by voting for it. I'm not sure that's how it works.... .

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *erriAnneTV/TS
over a year ago

The shire


"The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did.

Think you'll find the UK as a whole voted to leave. nope.

Nope???? Omfg really???? You need to have a look at the result again. The UK voted to leave it wasn't down to countries or constituencies it was person for person.

You're absolutely right, this is a core argument for independence.

It's really not because person for person in Scotland means wee Jimmy will lose again

If an independent Scotland voted. We wouldn't be leaving the EU. Fact.

That the same as me saying if my auntie Susan had a cock she'd be my uncle.

Only if your auntie Susan was able to get a cock by voting for it. I'm not sure that's how it works.... ."

Clearly not the same thing at all is it.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *outhside42Man
over a year ago

shawlands

No, sturgeon does not care about country, she just wants to be famous for getting it across the line, and will be long gone when left with mess

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No, sturgeon does not care about country, she just wants to be famous for getting it across the line, and will be long gone when left with mess "
does not care really wow

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *erriAnneTV/TS
over a year ago

The shire


"No, sturgeon does not care about country, she just wants to be famous for getting it across the line, and will be long gone when left with mess "

Amen

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Doesn't matter cause the vote is already in and for a generation it's a NO! On a more important note, what kind of bees produce milk???

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I really wish the SNP would get on with running Scotland, improve education, business, health.

Make Scotland a great place, then they would have more of a claim to independence. Get on with the job you were voted in to do.

I voted remain as I thought being in EU was better for Scotland, but now I would vote leave. "

Could agree more however I voted remain and still would

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *uzzy-LogicMan
over a year ago

Fochabers

Yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *iercedyvonneTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

I looked extensively at the facts back in 2014 and voted No.

I'm even more committed to No now.

I even recently donated to the No Thanks campaign I feel so strongly about it.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I looked extensively at the facts back in 2014 and voted No.

I'm even more committed to No now.

I even recently donated to the No Thanks campaign I feel so strongly about it."

I find myself surprised by that going by the conservative members voting history on LGBT rights over the years but then I haven’t done much research into that past looking at the voting histories

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"The United kingdom did not vote to leave.

England did.

Think you'll find the UK as a whole voted to leave. nope.

Nope???? Omfg really???? You need to have a look at the result again. The UK voted to leave it wasn't down to countries or constituencies it was person for person.

You're absolutely right, this is a core argument for independence.

It's really not because person for person in Scotland means wee Jimmy will lose again

If an independent Scotland voted. We wouldn't be leaving the EU. Fact."
and you know this as a fact how? Lol amazes me that folk just pull facts out of thin air

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *luebell888Woman
over a year ago

Glasgowish


"I looked extensively at the facts back in 2014 and voted No.

I'm even more committed to No now.

I even recently donated to the No Thanks campaign I feel so strongly about it.

I find myself surprised by that going by the conservative members voting history on LGBT rights over the years but then I haven’t done much research into that past looking at the voting histories "

You are referring to two completely different issues. People are not small minded enough to hold a grudge against a party just because of stuff that happened in the past.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ouple4832Couple
over a year ago

Edinburgh

I was no before absolutely 100% yes now

I'd rather the worst of Scotland independent than the best of Little England now (And I'm English)

Not my PM

Not my Brexit

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I looked extensively at the facts back in 2014 and voted No.

I'm even more committed to No now.

I even recently donated to the No Thanks campaign I feel so strongly about it."
well if you read my post from early, it tells you of the facts of the vote.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"I looked extensively at the facts back in 2014 and voted No.

I'm even more committed to No now.

I even recently donated to the No Thanks campaign I feel so strongly about it.well if you read my post from early, it tells you of the facts of the vote. "
your "facts" are based on a diffrent question

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I looked extensively at the facts back in 2014 and voted No.

I'm even more committed to No now.

I even recently donated to the No Thanks campaign I feel so strongly about it.well if you read my post from early, it tells you of the facts of the vote. your "facts" are based on a diffrent question"

And most “Facts” based on the words of a Tory are based on lies

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"I looked extensively at the facts back in 2014 and voted No.

I'm even more committed to No now.

I even recently donated to the No Thanks campaign I feel so strongly about it.well if you read my post from early, it tells you of the facts of the vote. your "facts" are based on a diffrent question

And most “Facts” based on the words of a Tory are based on lies "
trychanging that to politician closer to an actual fact

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

NO

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ero StressMan
over a year ago

Scotland

Exactly this proven by 1 of her 1st speeches in charge when her words were I want to be known as the woman that got scotland independence she didnt say I want to get scotland independence its baffling aparently we want to be independent away from england yet join Europe to not be independent everything about snp is anti English and england which basically is a form of racism

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

I was a no, now I'm a yes.

The UK is fooked, England is ruled by the privately educated and I feel sorry for the working class of england, however they have shown once and for all they are a salesmanship dream

Sooner we get out of the UK and back into the EU the better for all.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Exactly this proven by 1 of her 1st speeches in charge when her words were I want to be known as the woman that got scotland independence she didnt say I want to get scotland independence its baffling aparently we want to be independent away from england yet join Europe to not be independent everything about snp is anti English and england which basically is a form of racism"

And farage wanted to be the man who got us out of Europe due to his own personal hatred for that union

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *ero StressMan
over a year ago

Scotland


"Exactly this proven by 1 of her 1st speeches in charge when her words were I want to be known as the woman that got scotland independence she didnt say I want to get scotland independence its baffling aparently we want to be independent away from england yet join Europe to not be independent everything about snp is anti English and england which basically is a form of racism

And farage wanted to be the man who got us out of Europe due to his own personal hatred for that union "

And even he knew he didnt stand a chance of getting in and we all knew it ourselves but maybe he helped I dont know hes not a very likeable character

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Exactly this proven by 1 of her 1st speeches in charge when her words were I want to be known as the woman that got scotland independence she didnt say I want to get scotland independence its baffling aparently we want to be independent away from england yet join Europe to not be independent everything about snp is anti English and england which basically is a form of racism

And farage wanted to be the man who got us out of Europe due to his own personal hatred for that union

And even he knew he didnt stand a chance of getting in and we all knew it ourselves but maybe he helped I dont know hes not a very likeable character "
were is he now

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *udithdeneTV/TS
over a year ago

Edinburgh

No from me

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don’t leave us Welsh stuck with England! Loads commenting here saying they want to detached from England...don’t forget your Celtic cousins!

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Don’t leave us Welsh stuck with England! Loads commenting here saying they want to detached from England...don’t forget your Celtic cousins! "
the Welsh want there own independence

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

So I have another pm vote come in , it's a no from that member. However it is clear that from this unofficial Fab vote for independence,

the ayes have it.

A big thanks to everyone who took part with their votes and their comments but most importantly keeping it civil on such a devicive topic. Big pat on the back to everyone.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
back to top