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Assisted Suicide

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Later today the Director Of Public Prosecutions In England is due to clarify the circumstances in which people are likely to be prosecuted for assisting someone to cmmit suicide.

This is the result of Debby Purdy (a MS sufferer) going to the House of Lords earlier this year to argue for her right to die, and the right of her husband to assist. The Law Lords said she had a right to know if her husband was likely to be prosecuted.

Do people think that there should be a euthanasia law passed here in the UK?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A very emotive subject Stu !!

In my opinion yes there should be something legal in place where if a person who has a terminal or progressive neurological illness but is able to make that decision they should be allowed to pass away with dignity without the worry their loved ones face legal action for assisting them.

Kay

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you can make end of life decisions although you cant end your life as such but you can refuse treatment ie ventilation or cardiac compression etc.. usually a signed agreement with your consultant but will only be agreed to if there would be no chance of life improvement ... in otherwords you can die with dignity with no interferrence from medics

xxxxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

oh such a touchy subject but one well worth discussion ..ppl with strong religion upbringing tend to see this as a crime or a sin against there god but my opinion is surely its a sin to make someone live without dignity or joy in life, i've personaly had a good friend ask myself and his father amongst others of such a request, and although at the time i thought it was ludicrous i can totaly understand how ppl can come to such a decision while life no mater how bad at times is always worth fighting for when there is nothing possible left to fight for other than pray for a miracle surely it is only human to let such a person make there decision an to include those they love to be with them or even assist them in there final act !!! just my personal thoughts an in no way to cause controversy or hurt to another member

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having spent time in the Princess of Wales Hospice in Glasgow and I was hugely in awe of the staff and patients. The dignity in that establishment and similar was nothing short of incredible... and my thoughts will all people suffering.

However, in some cases, I would support the case for assisted suicide but with checks in place to ensure it is a decision that is made for the right reasons. Living with the impact of unassisted suicide is horrific for the family left behind.

It is a very emotional topic but one worth discussing Stu, well done for posting.

lets hope the thread, gets the dignity it deserves.

x

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By *adcowWoman
over a year ago

kirkcaldy

when i was nursing i met a lot of people who asked if there was nothing i could do to ease their pain and just let them slip away in their sleep. broke my heart everytime knowing that nothing i could do to help them.

euthanasia seems to work abroad so why not give those people a choice - it should be about quality of life not prolonging it just because we have the technology to do so.

just my opinion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is a subject really close to my heart, 13 years ago my uncle suffered a heart attack his heart stopped and the ambulance service managed to get his heart beating again........sadly he never fully recovered and spent the rest of his life in a comma as the heart had starved the brain of oxygen. He spent 7 years in this comma like state, its was horrific to watch, he was unable to communicate in any way he just lay there, his body slowly shrivelling up, he was peg fed into his stomach it was just awfull. We could do nothing but watch.....we know for a fact he would never of wanted to lie there in that state, we did seek legal advice and medical advice......my whole family now have a do not resuscitate note on file whenever we go into hospital in serious illness. heartattack etc.

I do think there is a place for assisted suicide for those in commas, those facing the rest of their life in serious pain etc.......but it something that needs closely monitored with strict rules and regulations.

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By *fcarlesbergmadeswingersCouple
over a year ago

Wallsend

there should be law as if you sign a dnr your family can over rule it you have to go to court to have them say the family cant stop the doctors doing what you say.

i work with the elderly and for a time with cancer patients its hard as most know whats happing and have asked us many a time to help them end this life which we cant.

in holland they have laws that if your terminaly ill or have dementia and know whats happeing which some still do in the early stages off the ilness.

you have to see two physcologist and a doctor and they all have to agree they sing a contract with you and every few months you have to see them. then you and them decied when the time is right the family cant stop that.

we should have something like that here after all dont we have the right to decied what we want to do with our life why should the goverment stop us having our right to decied.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

my opinion is a yes,, there should be law in place for people with serious health issue that have came to the end of the road and want to make the choice of when to go.

but,,as with any law there are twists and turns so i would suggest a clinic where you can go,,i know some will agrue that they would rather end it in their homes but i think that would open up to misadventure,not all nice people out there and some cld take the law and try and twist it

just me comment but in all i think a thumbs up yes,

auds xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Dad collapsed a few years ago...after a couple of days we were told by two seperate consultants that he would not recover. After considering whether or not to smother him with a pillow,to put his fitting to an end, we asked the doc to up his morphine to try and "relax" him...doc advised against it, but at our insistence he upped the dose, his heart stopped shortly after.

We knew dad would not want to be left in this condition, and I for one had no problem with making this decision.

It did get me thinking about this subject.

I looked at the Holland model as it is the one that everyone always mentions.

The dutch courts set guidleines back in the late 1980's, therse were:-

1. The patient must be experiencing unbearable pain.

2. The patient must be conscious.

3. The death request must be voluntary.

4. The patient must have been given alternatives to euthanasia and time to consider these alternatives.

5. There must be no other reasonable solutions to the problem.

6. The patient's death cannot inflict unnecessary suffering on others.

7. There must be more than one person involved in the euthanasia decision.

8. Only a doctor can euthanize a patient.

9. Great care must be taken in actually making the death decision

In 2001 the UN Human Rights Committee reported on the Holland experience. The report expressed grave concerns about the situation there.

It was concerned that the system may fail to detect and prevent situations where undue pressure could lead to these criteria being circumvented and that, with the passage of time, such a practice may lead to routinization and insensitivity to the strict application of the requirements in a way not anticipated.

There were concerns expressed that the law is also applicable to minors who have reached the age of 12 years. The law provides for the consent of parents or guardians of juveniles up to 16 years of age, while for those between 16 and 18 the parents' or guardian's consent may be replaced by the will of the minor, provided that the minor can appropriately assess his or her interests in the matter. It considered it difficult to reconcile a reasoned decision to terminate life with the evolving and maturing capacities of minors.

The Dutch define "euthanasia" in a very limited way: "Euthanasia is understood [as] an action which aims at taking the life of another at the latter's expressed request. It concerns an action of which death is the purpose and the result." This definition applies only to voluntary euthanasia and excludes what the rest of the world refers to as non-voluntary or involuntary euthanasia, the killing of a patient without the patient's knowledge or consent. The Dutch call this "life-terminating treatment."

Some physicians use this distinction between "euthanasia" and "life-terminating treatment" to avoid having a patient's death classified as "euthanasia," thus freeing doctors from following the established euthanasia guidelines and reporting the death to local authorities.

In 1991 the Remmenlink Report was published in Holland. It found that in 1990 2,300 people died as the result of doctors killing them upon request (active, voluntary euthanasia).

400 people died as a result of doctors providing them with the means to kill themselves (physician-assisted suicide).

1,040 people (an average of 3 per day) died from involuntary euthanasia, meaning that doctors actively killed these patients without the patients' knowledge or consent.

14% of these patients were fully competent.

72% had never given any indication that they would want their lives terminated.

In 8% of the cases, doctors performed involuntary euthanasia despite the fact that they believed alternative options were still possible.

In addition, 8,100 patients died as a result of doctors deliberately giving them overdoses of pain medication, not for the primary purpose of controlling pain, but to hasten the patient's death.

In 61% of these cases (4,941 patients), the intentional overdose was given without the patient's consent.

Taking all of this into consideration I believe that by legislating for euthanasia, even with tight guidelines, you are opening the door for legal challenges to have the law interpreted more loosely.

I think that this would be dangerous for our society.

I also think it is interesting to note that even dignitas is looking to tighten it's rules as they are concerned about the growth and effect of euthanasia tourism.

This is an emotive subject, and I appreciate all of your views on this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As many people know we have watched a few family members die slowly and have difficult fights to the end.......many not dignified.

There is deffo a place in society to be allowed to die a dignified death.

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By *fcarlesbergmadeswingersCouple
over a year ago

Wallsend

i watched my baby borother die at 23 he sufferd for days before his body gave up then same with my grandad and an aunty of mine all wanted to die with out pain and fuss they just wanted to go to sleep and not wake up im a firm beliver in euthinisa and have asked my husband to unplug me and let me die if any thing happens in fact i have told him that if im in a coma for 4 weeks to switch the machines off and let me go as i wont be coming back and ive told him if i get a terminal ilness i will end my life by not having treatment and taking care of my own medication. i have seen what a long painfull death does to family and the person and i dont want that for my self im a firm beliver in euthanisa and think in this day and age we have the right to chosse when we live or die and how we die. dont we all deserve some diginty at the end instead off suffering.

just my opion as ive been on the family side.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

O o O oo

I think there is a good enough argument for it.

We watched our mother die, we all knew she was terminal, she went into a coma like existance for the last week of her life and although she was doped up with morphine, everytime a nurse touched any part of her body she winced with the pain.

Why prolong the agony when they are going to die anyway and very soon? It is cruel and not just to the patient.

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By *eclan_and_AimeeCouple
over a year ago

dunblane, stirling

I'm not in anyway comparing us to animals and I apologise if I offend anyone, but when a family pet falls ill, 9 times out of 10 the vet will recommend the jag as it is the most 'humaine' way to deal with it so the pet is not in any pain ... Why then, do we make people suffer when they can voice their opinion and decide for themselves?!

I agree with all above that there has to be rules and possibly phycologists involved as mentioned. But in the 21st century we should have the right to be helped with a peacefull ending.

xAx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I totaly agree with assisted suicide, people should not have to suffer.However if Lesley tries to put me down because of my hayfever i may change my opinion.

But let people keep there dignity when illness hits them !

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By *inesawineWoman
over a year ago

fife

I do think there should be a way of assisting a peaceful ending for someone who is terminaly ill.

Having said that, I watched my mother go through the most horrid illness. She had a brain tumour which was operated on, but unsuccessfully. She lived on for almost 5 months after it, she was at home with us for most of that time. Watching mum get weaker and less able to communicate with us was heartbreaking. Will never know if she did fully understand what was happening, she never spoke of it, and we couldnt tell her that she was not going to get up and walk again, after going through such an enormous operation.

So, could I have helped her die? Wanted her pain and suffering to stop, but her life to end? Honest answer - I dont know.

Mines xxxxx

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

thin end off the wedge.once you start passing laws,allowing assisted suicide for totally legitemate cases,a couple of clever lawers,and a few years down the line,, god knows where it could end. i am for it. but they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. (sorry for the cliches)

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By *imfromGlasgowMan
over a year ago

er...guess

It's worth remembering that the DPP guidelines don't apply in Scotland where there's no 'assisting suicide' offence.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It's worth remembering that the DPP guidelines don't apply in Scotland where there's no 'assisting suicide' offence. "

But it is still uncertain here whether or not a person would be charged under existing homicide laws.

I believe Margo MacDonald has no got the 18 backers she needs to introduce her End Of Life Choices Bill into the Scottish Parlaiment sometime this year.

She hopes to get the position clarified with regard to people being assisted to end their lives in certain circumstances....so watch this space

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By *imfromGlasgowMan
over a year ago

er...guess

Wee Elish has made it pretty claer she'd move to indict anyone thought to have ben involved in someone else's suicide.

As for Margo; I reckon the 18 she's recruited would be only too glad to see the back of her ASAP.

Given the present Scottish Executive's attitude towards the Catholic church in Scotland I don't think we'll see legislation making a such a 'sin' legal anytime soon.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

A recent yougov poll found 80% of Scots were in favour.....never under estaimate a politicians desire to be populist.....Although I agree...I cannot see anybody wanting to legislate for it here

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By *imfromGlasgowMan
over a year ago

er...guess


"A recent yougov poll found 80% of Scots were in favour.....never under estaimate a politicians desire to be populist.....Although I agree...I cannot see anybody wanting to legislate for it here"

You only have to look at our granny-shaggin' First Minister to see the populist lengths and lies a politician will go.

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By *eclan_and_AimeeCouple
over a year ago

dunblane, stirling

Although it doesn't come under euthanasia, this law is already being abused!

Today a young woman died after drinking poison to commit suicide, she was taken to hospital in plenty of time and the doctors had the ability to save her but had to stand back and just watch!?

She had written a letter which was considered a living will stating that she was not to be helped in any way. If the doctors had attempted to do anything they would have been breaking the law. The woman had no fatal illness and was not in any physical pain day to day, she was simply depressed (I know depression isn't simple in any way but you know what I mean - it wasn't life threatening)

How can the government pass this bill without checking out the loop holes first?? Surely this woman's life should have been saved...

xAx

*sorry, just needed a rant*

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By *lackbird186Man
over a year ago

west glasgow

i know its a serious topic but on a lighter side.

who would you give a helping push of a high building

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

my mother suffered and died from a debilitating neurological disease for which there is still no cure. I have to say to watch someone you adore become incapable of performing any bodily function without assistance, is perhaps the most helpless you will feel in your life. obviously I'm not glad she died but I AM glad she died before the disease progressed any further. However, if she had asked me to help in ending her life, bearing in mind I knew what a private and proud woman she was, I would have assisted her in any way I could have irrespective of any legal ramifications. There is the law and then there's justice....in this case they're far apart and I sincerely believe they should be brought closer together.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"my mother suffered and died from a debilitating neurological disease for which there is still no cure. I have to say to watch someone you adore become incapable of performing any bodily function without assistance, is perhaps the most helpless you will feel in your life. obviously I'm not glad she died but I AM glad she died before the disease progressed any further. However, if she had asked me to help in ending her life, bearing in mind I knew what a private and proud woman she was, I would have assisted her in any way I could have irrespective of any legal ramifications. There is the law and then there's justice....in this case they're far apart and I sincerely believe they should be brought closer together."

great post Roxie xxxxxxxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I read in the paper today that if you wish to refuse food and hydration you may allow yourself to die in that way without fear of legal reprisal, must be very difficult for family members to step back and watch a person go through though. How much more dignified and swifter assisted suicide seems in comparison.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dignity...hit the nail on the head there Laine....surely that's the very minimum we can give those suffering whether they be patients or the families of those patients....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think if its a serious medical condition, of sound mind, then u shud b able 2 have the choice of life.

The way i look at it is, if u had a pet that was in pain and suffering you take it 2 the vet and have it put 2 sleep, why cant u with a human?

I watched my gran suffer in hospital, she had bowel cancer and was not well enough 2 opperate, the nursing staff and docs made her comfortable,

am sorry but if my gran was an animal, and was suffering we would of been done for cruelty.

i dnt mean 2 upset anyone, just my own opinion..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My family know I do not wish to be resuscitated or my life prolonged by mechanical means. Whether assisted suicide is an option or not, I intend to keep living life to the full and hope that when the time comes I may be allowed to depart with dignity.

It has been very emotive and humbling to read of each individuals experience here, I can only hope I or my family never need go through what many of you have. I take my hat off to you all, each brave one of you. xxxxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

a very emotive subject but good to see. no one wants anyone to suffer and if it is a terminal illness or degenerative then they should be allowed to die with dignity i watched family members with terminal cancer try to fight it to the point where they were suffering and wished with all my heart that they could have somethin to slip away peacefully and painfree.if i had choice to be given something after bein assesed by medical professionals psycholigists etc then i would want that choice.as long as safeguards are in place for people so people arent just bumping off aunt edna for being a burden or her finances then so be it freedom of choice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

my mother passed away a few weeks ago. having seen her die in a way without any of her dignity left she would never have wanted that. if i could have i would have been willing to assist with my mums passing. after all we are human, we have a voice to say how we wish to pass. animals have more dignity in death than we do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've got to agree Elm.

I wouldn't want to watch anyone close to me suffer and I'd be the first to ask others to help me die once it's clear there is no hope for me and all I have left is some pain and suffering.

I really don't see anything wrong with people being assisted to die in those circumstances.

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