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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. " What about childcare and the 30 odd hours a week  they're required to look for work (and show evidence of) before they can get benefits? | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. What about childcare and the 30 odd hours a week they're required to look for work (and show evidence of) before they can get benefits?"Do kids not go to nursery and school. Im not talking full time employment im talking an hour or 2 Monday to Friday . | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. " I believe they call that community service. Are the unemployed criminals? | |||
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"Councils are struggling to pay the workers they already have so doubt they will have the funds to employ hundreds more." No blue, the benefits payments they recieve are basically the payment. I think they should have to do it. Lots just sit back and dont have any interest in work. Xx | |||
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"Councils are struggling to pay the workers they already have so doubt they will have the funds to employ hundreds more. No blue, the benefits payments they recieve are basically the payment. I think they should have to do it. Lots just sit back and dont have any interest in work. Xx" So if they had all these extra workers for free they might pay off some people they already employ. | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. I believe they call that community service. Are the unemployed criminals? " Community service is to pay society back for a crime. Community work is contributing something back for getting government handouts. This may also lead to a job remember. | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. What about childcare and the 30 odd hours a week they're required to look for work (and show evidence of) before they can get benefits?
Do kids not go to nursery and school. Im not talking full time employment im talking an hour or 2 Monday to Friday ."Fuck sake....you'll have Andy Murray down the beach picking up the used Johnny Bags once he's retired.....  | |||
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"Councils are struggling to pay the workers they already have so doubt they will have the funds to employ hundreds more. No blue, the benefits payments they recieve are basically the payment. I think they should have to do it. Lots just sit back and dont have any interest in work. Xx So if they had all these extra workers for free they might pay off some people they already employ." This is true to an extent, does the NHS have enough staff or short staffed. ? If 1 or 2 people were in a ward cleaning bedpans and doing low skilled work they wont get rid of nurses but it will improve the care the nurses can give. | |||
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"In a word...no" Reason why you say no . ? | |||
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"In a word...no Reason why you say no . ?" Because you asked the question | |||
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"Next we'll be sticking kids back up chimneys " Could we not just burn the unemployed actually? My last fuel bill was fucking horrendous! | |||
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"In a word...no Reason why you say no . ?" Because I don't think people on benefits are inherently sponging lazy bastards. I believe many of them would rather do a fair day's work for a fair day's pay | |||
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"In a word...no Reason why you say no . ? Because you asked the question "It's actually because I think his views about most things are outdated | |||
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"In a word...no Reason why you say no . ? Because I don't think people on benefits are inherently sponging lazy bastards. I believe many of them would rather do a fair day's work for a fair day's pay" I did not see anyone say they were sponging lazy bastards so why bring that into a the debate. Or was that a shallow attempt to escalate my viewpoint to another level to strenthen your viewpoint. ? | |||
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"In a word...no Reason why you say no . ? Because I don't think people on benefits are inherently sponging lazy bastards. I believe many of them would rather do a fair day's work for a fair day's pay I did not see anyone say they were sponging lazy bastards so why bring that into a the debate. Or was that a shallow attempt to escalate my viewpoint to another level to strenthen your viewpoint. ?" It's my view That's what you asked for | |||
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"In a word...no Reason why you say no . ? Because I don't think people on benefits are inherently sponging lazy bastards. I believe many of them would rather do a fair day's work for a fair day's pay" I completely agree with this. Also a lot of chronically unemployed people have come from families where no one had worked for generations and no value had ever been placed on being employed. Education and career counselling is needed and people need supoort to change their mindset rather than forced labour | |||
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"In a word...no Reason why you say no . ? Because I don't think people on benefits are inherently sponging lazy bastards. I believe many of them would rather do a fair day's work for a fair day's pay I did not see anyone say they were sponging lazy bastards so why bring that into a the debate. Or was that a shallow attempt to escalate my viewpoint to another level to strenthen your viewpoint. ? It's my view That's what you asked for " Its your view that others see them as sponging bastards. ? | |||
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"I think being asked to do something beneficial for your community is a great idea if your fit and able." Being asked to, yes. Being forced to, no. Having volunteered myself in different roles when I wasn't working there is a lot to be gained. Getting back into a routine, sense of self worth, out mixing with new folk, etc. | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. " I think this would lead to more people overcrowding doctor surgeries with mystery illnesses to get a line to get out of doing it. It would also be slave labour. They generally get £54 a week to live on and you’re expecting them to travel to said community work, possibly pay for a babysitter and receive no additional payment in line with say minimum wage to compensate. I think it’s hard enough for people unemployed and genuinely looking for work because they have closed many job centres but claimants are still expected to travel, sometimes a good distance to attend and they do not receive travel reimbursement. A lot of people have to complete an online daily journal of what they have done to seek work. They may not have a computer at home or even electricity in the meter to power any computer and again have to travel to libraries to do this at their expense. People fall on hard times, it can happen to anyone and because of their circumstances you think it’s acceptable to essentially force them to do the more unsavoury jobs (cleaning bed pans as you said) on the basis that they don’t have a job. Bit shitty really (no pun intended) Mrs | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. I believe they call that community service. Are the unemployed criminals? Community service is to pay society back for a crime. Community work is contributing something back for getting government handouts. This may also lead to a job remember. " Assuming they haven't already contributed via national insurance, serving in the armed forces etc The forced voluntary work never leads to employment because they do the work, the time comes for them to be considered for employment, the companies tell them they have no positions for them, then they get the next round of people in, rinse repeat ad nauseum. This was all over the news, i'm surprised you didn't see it. | |||
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"Councils are struggling to pay the workers they already have so doubt they will have the funds to employ hundreds more. No blue, the benefits payments they recieve are basically the payment. I think they should have to do it. Lots just sit back and dont have any interest in work. Xx So if they had all these extra workers for free they might pay off some people they already employ. This is true to an extent, does the NHS have enough staff or short staffed. ? If 1 or 2 people were in a ward cleaning bedpans and doing low skilled work they wont get rid of nurses but it will improve the care the nurses can give. " So cleaning a ward is unskilled employment that can be undertaken by anyone? "Training and development When you start work as a domestic assistant, you will be given the training you need. This includes health and safety and manual handing as well as an introduction to the department. You will be encouraged to work towards a qualification, such as an NVQ in cleaning or one of the qualifications offered by the British Institute of Cleaning Science (BICSc). Employers may ask staff to take courses in particular topics such as dealing with hazardous waste or infection control. Domestic services supervisors and managers may be expected to take qualifications in management. With experience and qualifications, domestic services staff can apply to become members of the British Institute of Cleaning Science (BICSc)." As someone who has been a cleaner professionally, your attitude towards NHS Domestic Staff is insulting. | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. I think this would lead to more people overcrowding doctor surgeries with mystery illnesses to get a line to get out of doing it. It would also be slave labour. They generally get £54 a week to live on and you’re expecting them to travel to said community work, possibly pay for a babysitter and receive no additional payment in line with say minimum wage to compensate. I think it’s hard enough for people unemployed and genuinely looking for work because they have closed many job centres but claimants are still expected to travel, sometimes a good distance to attend and they do not receive travel reimbursement. A lot of people have to complete an online daily journal of what they have done to seek work. They may not have a computer at home or even electricity in the meter to power any computer and again have to travel to libraries to do this at their expense. People fall on hard times, it can happen to anyone and because of their circumstances you think it’s acceptable to essentially force them to do the more unsavoury jobs (cleaning bed pans as you said) on the basis that they don’t have a job. Bit shitty really (no pun intended) Mrs " You make a lot of hypothetical situations in there and i agree with most of your comments. All circumstances should be considered before being forced to work. You say they get £54 per week. 1 hour a day is £10.50 per hour for those in situations that can do it. Wheres the slave labour. ? As for shitty jobs i said low skilled jobs where minimal training would be needed. Do nurses not do these "shitty" jobs on a daily basis. Im sure they'd rather be giving patient care like they trained and studied hard for. | |||
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"Councils are struggling to pay the workers they already have so doubt they will have the funds to employ hundreds more. No blue, the benefits payments they recieve are basically the payment. I think they should have to do it. Lots just sit back and dont have any interest in work. Xx So if they had all these extra workers for free they might pay off some people they already employ. This is true to an extent, does the NHS have enough staff or short staffed. ? If 1 or 2 people were in a ward cleaning bedpans and doing low skilled work they wont get rid of nurses but it will improve the care the nurses can give. So cleaning a ward is unskilled employment that can be undertaken by anyone? "Training and development When you start work as a domestic assistant, you will be given the training you need. This includes health and safety and manual handing as well as an introduction to the department. You will be encouraged to work towards a qualification, such as an NVQ in cleaning or one of the qualifications offered by the British Institute of Cleaning Science (BICSc). Employers may ask staff to take courses in particular topics such as dealing with hazardous waste or infection control. Domestic services supervisors and managers may be expected to take qualifications in management. With experience and qualifications, domestic services staff can apply to become members of the British Institute of Cleaning Science (BICSc)." As someone who has been a cleaner professionally, your attitude towards NHS Domestic Staff is insulting. " I concede your point but again the people requested to do the job may already have completed this training in previous employments . Or is every domestic cleaner in the country in employment and not getting benefits. Again as said earlier , it could lead to full time employment. | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. I think this would lead to more people overcrowding doctor surgeries with mystery illnesses to get a line to get out of doing it. It would also be slave labour. They generally get £54 a week to live on and you’re expecting them to travel to said community work, possibly pay for a babysitter and receive no additional payment in line with say minimum wage to compensate. I think it’s hard enough for people unemployed and genuinely looking for work because they have closed many job centres but claimants are still expected to travel, sometimes a good distance to attend and they do not receive travel reimbursement. A lot of people have to complete an online daily journal of what they have done to seek work. They may not have a computer at home or even electricity in the meter to power any computer and again have to travel to libraries to do this at their expense. People fall on hard times, it can happen to anyone and because of their circumstances you think it’s acceptable to essentially force them to do the more unsavoury jobs (cleaning bed pans as you said) on the basis that they don’t have a job. Bit shitty really (no pun intended) Mrs You make a lot of hypothetical situations in there and i agree with most of your comments. All circumstances should be considered before being forced to work. You say they get £54 per week. 1 hour a day is £10.50 per hour for those in situations that can do it. Wheres the slave labour. ? As for shitty jobs i said low skilled jobs where minimal training would be needed. Do nurses not do these "shitty" jobs on a daily basis. Im sure they'd rather be giving patient care like they trained and studied hard for. " When you are given no choice it's slave labour. When your placement is in another town and it costs you a fiver to travel there, your placement covers several days, now include lunch. If you cannot afford to attend placement you are immediately sanctioned, possibly for weeks. Yes, nurses do empty bed pans, because there is an aspect of health and safety regarding moving and handling regulations ( which take a lot of training) Also because toileting is used as a diagnosis and monitoring tool for patients in hospital, so why would someone who is untrained be allowed to do it? Domestic Assistants cover most of the cleaning and assist where they can, but in no way can they be expected to take on this responsibility. | |||
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"It would appear most are against this idea lol. The no vote wins haha. Let them continue picking up there money in peace. "Don't go into politics...we're fucked enough | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. " only if they are paid the minimum wage. sometimes folk in employment fail to realise how few meaningful jobs there are out there. zero hr contracts and only part time makes the employment market a huge pitfall | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. " I've came to the table late and by time I've read the whole thread I'd forget my actual opinion Yes people should work if picking up benefits, plenty of voluntary organisations around who are crying out for help so why not take up a few hours helping such organisations? I'm not sure how many hours is actually needed at the moment for someone to claim benefit under the voluntary option at the moment but I remember years ago it was a minimum of 16 hours and you were able to go on income support/JSA without issues John  | |||
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"I'm voting OP for Minister of Work & Social Services - there's bound to be a cabinet reshuffle soon! "Aye he’s got the Tory gammon gene right enough  | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. I think this would lead to more people overcrowding doctor surgeries with mystery illnesses to get a line to get out of doing it. It would also be slave labour. They generally get £54 a week to live on and you’re expecting them to travel to said community work, possibly pay for a babysitter and receive no additional payment in line with say minimum wage to compensate. I think it’s hard enough for people unemployed and genuinely looking for work because they have closed many job centres but claimants are still expected to travel, sometimes a good distance to attend and they do not receive travel reimbursement. A lot of people have to complete an online daily journal of what they have done to seek work. They may not have a computer at home or even electricity in the meter to power any computer and again have to travel to libraries to do this at their expense. People fall on hard times, it can happen to anyone and because of their circumstances you think it’s acceptable to essentially force them to do the more unsavoury jobs (cleaning bed pans as you said) on the basis that they don’t have a job. Bit shitty really (no pun intended) Mrs You make a lot of hypothetical situations in there and i agree with most of your comments. All circumstances should be considered before being forced to work. You say they get £54 per week. 1 hour a day is £10.50 per hour for those in situations that can do it. Wheres the slave labour. ? As for shitty jobs i said low skilled jobs where minimal training would be needed. Do nurses not do these "shitty" jobs on a daily basis. Im sure they'd rather be giving patient care like they trained and studied hard for. " My points may be hypothetical but are valid. They are also based on a 15 year history of working with DWP, specifically benefits. Yes nurses carry out these duties on a daily basis but I’m sure if you asked any of them it would hardly be the highlight of their day. In your original post you didn’t mention them being paid for work or reimburses for travel. Contrary for contrary sakes I think Mrs | |||
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"Councils are struggling to pay the workers they already have so doubt they will have the funds to employ hundreds more. No blue, the benefits payments they recieve are basically the payment. I think they should have to do it. Lots just sit back and dont have any interest in work. Xx So if they had all these extra workers for free they might pay off some people they already employ. This is true to an extent, does the NHS have enough staff or short staffed. ? If 1 or 2 people were in a ward cleaning bedpans and doing low skilled work they wont get rid of nurses but it will improve the care the nurses can give. " You mean the low skilled work that us care assistants do?.. as we’re usually the ones getting rid of bed pans and doing the dirty jobs...  | |||
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"Councils are struggling to pay the workers they already have so doubt they will have the funds to employ hundreds more. No blue, the benefits payments they recieve are basically the payment. I think they should have to do it. Lots just sit back and dont have any interest in work. Xx So if they had all these extra workers for free they might pay off some people they already employ. This is true to an extent, does the NHS have enough staff or short staffed. ? If 1 or 2 people were in a ward cleaning bedpans and doing low skilled work they wont get rid of nurses but it will improve the care the nurses can give. You mean the low skilled work that us care assistants do?.. as we’re usually the ones getting rid of bed pans and doing the dirty jobs... "To yourself and jugs, i already conceded that was a bad example using domestic assistants 
Dosnt mean they could not be in the hospital picking litter or mowing a council run old folks home. Again about travel and food costs etc. Even i could go without food for 1 hour a day while i worked. As for travel of course it would be set up as very local work. Im only continuing to defend my views as people are still putting possible situations to defend their view point.
Ps i would be great in a politicians role. Mrs Doggy as my deputy as shes a female so cant get the main role.
Im JOKING. | |||
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"I’m going to open a book on what #4 is going to be on "I'll have a tenner on immigration | |||
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"I’m going to open a book on what #4 is going to be on "Cmon debate is good. All views being passed without any nastiness. I have a little bit of support on this so not quite alone on my opinion. For a change. | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. " Its quite an ill divided world we live in nowadays where i often ponder ways we could make it fairer for all. Real opportunities to work and be paid reasonably so that at the end of the week or month people are never struggling, enjoying the job they are in and seeing the benefits of working. Thats not happening for a huge amount of people but they struggle on regardless. Cant imagine for example if you were to be made redundant from a job that you enjoyed, were good at, got a decent wage too, to then suddenly rely on benefits,struggle to find a job and to add insult the lovely benefits people then zap your self worth with insisting you go out and pick up other peoples litter or similar. That all said, if i were struggling, jobless but lucky enough to have a roof over my head and affording to eat, i probably would want to help others with none of these basic things. | |||
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"I’m going to open a book on what #4 is going to be on
Cmon debate is good. All views being passed without any nastiness. I have a little bit of support on this so not quite alone on my opinion. For a change. "Seems i spoke too soon. | |||
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"And how do we determine who is actually fit for work ? I paid my taxes and high tax bracket pleasure as well quite happily, I lived to work, ambitious goal orientated some people’s goals are just to be parents and you know what if they don’t want to work then good for them, perhaps if we lived in a society where you could farm your own land and build your own house and feed your family and not have to worry about working your ass off to pay for shit you don’t want like wars and government business lunches there wouldn’t be this argument but hey that would take us back to the dark ages " Violet dont you think 99% of mothers or fathers would love to be just a parent but to have a reasonable quality of living standards they have to go out every morning leaving their kids all day to pay bills just to stay ahead of the game. The world you speak of is a utopia, yes it would be lovely but its not reality. As for people unfit to work for whatever reason again common sense prevails, my view is not 'on benefits go out and work ' a common sense approach must be used. A 20 year old kid playing xbox all day then picking up money at the end of the week because he can and chooses too, in my opinion is taking the piss. | |||
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"Councils are struggling to pay the workers they already have so doubt they will have the funds to employ hundreds more. No blue, the benefits payments they recieve are basically the payment. I think they should have to do it. Lots just sit back and dont have any interest in work. Xx So if they had all these extra workers for free they might pay off some people they already employ. This is true to an extent, does the NHS have enough staff or short staffed. ? If 1 or 2 people were in a ward cleaning bedpans and doing low skilled work they wont get rid of nurses but it will improve the care the nurses can give. You mean the low skilled work that us care assistants do?.. as we’re usually the ones getting rid of bed pans and doing the dirty jobs...
To yourself and jugs, i already conceded that was a bad example using domestic assistants
Dosnt mean they could not be in the hospital picking litter or mowing a council run old folks home. Again about travel and food costs etc. Even i could go without food for 1 hour a day while i worked. As for travel of course it would be set up as very local work. Im only continuing to defend my views as people are still putting possible situations to defend their view point.
Ps i would be great in a politicians role. Mrs Doggy as my deputy as shes a female so cant get the main role.
Im JOKING. "Awww naw.....leave me out of this one Boris! | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. What about childcare and the 30 odd hours a week they're required to look for work (and show evidence of) before they can get benefits?
Do kids not go to nursery and school. Im not talking full time employment im talking an hour or 2 Monday to Friday .
Fuck sake....you'll have Andy Murray down the beach picking up the used Johnny Bags once he's retired..... "Lol imagine the scene, means testing Andy Murray before he gets his disability allowance.  | |||
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"Councils are struggling to pay the workers they already have so doubt they will have the funds to employ hundreds more. No blue, the benefits payments they recieve are basically the payment. I think they should have to do it. Lots just sit back and dont have any interest in work. Xx So if they had all these extra workers for free they might pay off some people they already employ. This is true to an extent, does the NHS have enough staff or short staffed. ? If 1 or 2 people were in a ward cleaning bedpans and doing low skilled work they wont get rid of nurses but it will improve the care the nurses can give. " I've been a nurse since 1991 and never seen a bed pan being cleaned... we've moved on since Florence and everything is disposable... also there are no low skilled jobs in the NHS... everyone is trained to suit their role | |||
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"' a common sense approach must be used. A 20 year old kid playing xbox all day then picking up money at the end of the week because he can and chooses too, in my opinion is taking the piss. " Common sense isn't something you display much of in this debate | |||
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"In a word...no Reason why you say no . ? Because I don't think people on benefits are inherently sponging lazy bastards. I believe many of them would rather do a fair day's work for a fair day's pay I did not see anyone say they were sponging lazy bastards so why bring that into a the debate. Or was that a shallow attempt to escalate my viewpoint to another level to strenthen your viewpoint. ?" You insinuated it “Lots just sit back and dont have any interest in work. Xx”. Would it be fair to say that that in fact sums up the reasoning behind your original question? | |||
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"Remember folks, it’s not the bankers, tax dodging corporations or corrupt politicians that are the problem, it’s the ‘workshy’ 20 year olds on their XBoxes." Those pesky kids! | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. " Yes, I don't believe anyone should get anything for nothing | |||
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"And how do we determine who is actually fit for work ? I paid my taxes and high tax bracket pleasure as well quite happily, I lived to work, ambitious goal orientated some people’s goals are just to be parents and you know what if they don’t want to work then good for them, perhaps if we lived in a society where you could farm your own land and build your own house and feed your family and not have to worry about working your ass off to pay for shit you don’t want like wars and government business lunches there wouldn’t be this argument but hey that would take us back to the dark ages " ? Spot on ? | |||
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"So a few in my work were discussing similair as one of them where struggling to get their 19year old to get out and get a job and the question was raised Would a return to national service help future generations with values, work ethic, etc" yup we could send them off to conflict zones we have nothing to do with and decrease our population......this from ex military person.......before anything else we need to pay and kit out our military first and stop meddling in world affairs | |||
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"So a few in my work were discussing similair as one of them where struggling to get their 19year old to get out and get a job and the question was raised Would a return to national service help future generations with values, work ethic, etcyup we could send them off to conflict zones we have nothing to do with and decrease our population......this from ex military person.......before anything else we need to pay and kit out our military first and stop meddling in world affairs "Couldn't agree more | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. " Nope. Nuh uh. Definitely not. | |||
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"And how do we determine who is actually fit for work ? I paid my taxes and high tax bracket pleasure as well quite happily, I lived to work, ambitious goal orientated some people’s goals are just to be parents and you know what if they don’t want to work then good for them, perhaps if we lived in a society where you could farm your own land and build your own house and feed your family and not have to worry about working your ass off to pay for shit you don’t want like wars and government business lunches there wouldn’t be this argument but hey that would take us back to the dark ages Violet dont you think 99% of mothers or fathers would love to be just a parent but to have a reasonable quality of living standards they have to go out every morning leaving their kids all day to pay bills just to stay ahead of the game. The world you speak of is a utopia, yes it would be lovely but its not reality. As for people unfit to work for whatever reason again common sense prevails, my view is not 'on benefits go out and work ' a common sense approach must be used. A 20 year old kid playing xbox all day then picking up money at the end of the week because he can and chooses too, in my opinion is taking the piss. " If o had my chance again I’d have stayed home and brought my kids up rather than send them to childminders and nurseries instead of now not being fit to work and not being fit to parent them properly ! I put money work pride and my health before them but on the outside people see me and think there’s nothing wrong with me, and for half the week if I’m lucky I prob could go out to work again but going to work is impossible because my condition so unpredictable, I think the only reason I don’t get harassed is my previous employment history, as for these 20year olds sat on Xbox all day don’t you wonder how these kids ended up like this ? Well for the large majority of these kids from personal experience are from working families ! Spoiled entitled kids it’s bloody hard to work and parent ! I’ve seen more kids from benefit families coming up through the ranks and applying themselves to apprenticeships and college courses to do well so these ‘benefit’ families if you were to do the actual social research are the ones who are producing the next generation of workers and low paid workers at that, whereas the product of working families seem to be heading towards the benefits future ! It’s about an 80/20 split based on figures from e | |||
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"Remember folks, it’s not the bankers, tax dodging corporations or corrupt politicians that are the problem, it’s the ‘workshy’ 20 year olds on their XBoxes." Another example of manipulation of a question. Where above did i say your other examples were not a problem , but we are debating one issue not all of them in one thread. Again another example of try to strengthen your point by belittling this one issue against others bigger problems. Maybe that would be Debate # 4 | |||
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"And how do we determine who is actually fit for work ? I paid my taxes and high tax bracket pleasure as well quite happily, I lived to work, ambitious goal orientated some people’s goals are just to be parents and you know what if they don’t want to work then good for them, perhaps if we lived in a society where you could farm your own land and build your own house and feed your family and not have to worry about working your ass off to pay for shit you don’t want like wars and government business lunches there wouldn’t be this argument but hey that would take us back to the dark ages Violet dont you think 99% of mothers or fathers would love to be just a parent but to have a reasonable quality of living standards they have to go out every morning leaving their kids all day to pay bills just to stay ahead of the game. The world you speak of is a utopia, yes it would be lovely but its not reality. As for people unfit to work for whatever reason again common sense prevails, my view is not 'on benefits go out and work ' a common sense approach must be used. A 20 year old kid playing xbox all day then picking up money at the end of the week because he can and chooses too, in my opinion is taking the piss. If o had my chance again I’d have stayed home and brought my kids up rather than send them to childminders and nurseries instead of now not being fit to work and not being fit to parent them properly ! I put money work pride and my health before them but on the outside people see me and think there’s nothing wrong with me, and for half the week if I’m lucky I prob could go out to work again but going to work is impossible because my condition so unpredictable, I think the only reason I don’t get harassed is my previous employment history, as for these 20year olds sat on Xbox all day don’t you wonder how these kids ended up like this ? Well for the large majority of these kids from personal experience are from working families ! Spoiled entitled kids it’s bloody hard to work and parent ! I’ve seen more kids from benefit families coming up through the ranks and applying themselves to apprenticeships and college courses to do well so these ‘benefit’ families if you were to do the actual social research are the ones who are producing the next generation of workers and low paid workers at that, whereas the product of working families seem to be heading towards the benefits future ! It’s about an 80/20 split based on figures from e" I definitely agree on some of your points about being UNABLE to work V but you never answer my question on the 20 year old that could work but refuses and sits on his xbox all day. Whether he came from a working family background or a breadline family does not change the fact he still sits there. And by your stats your saying the kids he has will statistically speaking go out to work. So do we accept every second generation can sit playing xbox because they choose not to work. Again i stress my views are not aimed at the people that CANNOT work for whatever personal reason they have. Xx | |||
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"If you have been fortunate enough never to have in a situation where you have had to receive help from the state benefits then lucky you. Not all are on benefits are what you seem to believe. Personally I have worked all my days and through not been fit to work for few months had to rely on a top up from the benefit system which does not actually cover every day needs. If you think the community needs help then why not give up some of your own time too instead of discriminating only the unemployed. " Feel like im repeating myself now. For yourself and the person above i dont think its a one shoe fits all i said a common sense approach weighing up individual needs and reasons why they should not be forced to comply. Its funny how not 1 person has actually come out and said yes its OK for a fit and healthy 20 year old to sit playing xbox all day, while collecting benefits . As for me helping the community, I served 2 years on the childrens panel ( voluntary work ) I drove a minibus for a volunteer group, ferrying kids around after school activities while parents worked ( volunteer work ) All while holding down a full time job. Was set to be a classroom assistant ( volunteer ) but job hours changed and made it unworkable. Any 1 of those things that 20 yr old sitting on his xbox could have done . | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. " Simple answer is no, if people want to work then by all means help them find a job that actually pays to keep them in that job, we are the one of the richest nations in the world and yet our min wage is under a tenner which is a joke, I can bet you don't get paid a tenner an hour do you? How about halfing every politics wage and put that towards helping the unemployed instead of them do absolutely nothing to earn that amount of money plus living expenses and so on, stop with attacking the unemployed and march against this government and get rid of them all. | |||
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"Remember folks, it’s not the bankers, tax dodging corporations or corrupt politicians that are the problem, it’s the ‘workshy’ 20 year olds on their XBoxes. Another example of manipulation of a question. Where above did i say your other examples were not a problem , but we are debating one issue not all of them in one thread. Again another example of try to strengthen your point by belittling this one issue against others bigger problems. Maybe that would be Debate # 4 "I see you didn’t answer my question directly above that post eh? Plus you’re using generalisations like your ‘hypothetical’ 20 year old. The problems are related my friend. Posts like yours attack the ‘workshy’ or single mothers or immigration as scapegoats when we should be far more concerned at the cause and effect of the actions of those in power. | |||
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"If you have been fortunate enough never to have in a situation where you have had to receive help from the state benefits then lucky you. Not all are on benefits are what you seem to believe. Personally I have worked all my days and through not been fit to work for few months had to rely on a top up from the benefit system which does not actually cover every day needs. If you think the community needs help then why not give up some of your own time too instead of discriminating only the unemployed. Feel like im repeating myself now. For yourself and the person above i dont think its a one shoe fits all i said a common sense approach weighing up individual needs and reasons why they should not be forced to comply. Its funny how not 1 person has actually come out and said yes its OK for a fit and healthy 20 year old to sit playing xbox all day, while collecting benefits . As for me helping the community, I served 2 years on the childrens panel ( voluntary work ) I drove a minibus for a volunteer group, ferrying kids around after school activities while parents worked ( volunteer work ) All while holding down a full time job. Was set to be a classroom assistant ( volunteer ) but job hours changed and made it unworkable. Any 1 of those things that 20 yr old sitting on his xbox could have done . " You did all this as voluntary work, good for you, if someone claiming JSA because they have been unable to find paid employment does voluntary work that isn't a placement through the DWP, they are sanctioned because 1. they are undertaking a voluntary "hobby" while they should be looking for paid employment 2. They are sanctioned because they are obviously employable, but just aren't trying hard enough to find work. We are talking about a system where support officers are rewarded or sacked based on the amount of people they can get off benefits, They don't care how, they don't care what happens to them after, they just need them off their books. | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. Simple answer is no, if people want to work then by all means help them find a job that actually pays to keep them in that job, we are the one of the richest nations in the world and yet our min wage is under a tenner which is a joke, I can bet you don't get paid a tenner an hour do you? How about halfing every politics wage and put that towards helping the unemployed instead of them do absolutely nothing to earn that amount of money plus living expenses and so on, stop with attacking the unemployed and march against this government and get rid of them all." Im assuming your running for a government position then so you can make a policy change on politicians wages and setting a higher minimum wage. Thats the ONLY way that can be done. Or is this just another post telling others what they really ought to do but not actually standing up and doing something themselves about it. | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. Simple answer is no, if people want to work then by all means help them find a job that actually pays to keep them in that job, we are the one of the richest nations in the world and yet our min wage is under a tenner which is a joke, I can bet you don't get paid a tenner an hour do you? How about halfing every politics wage and put that towards helping the unemployed instead of them do absolutely nothing to earn that amount of money plus living expenses and so on, stop with attacking the unemployed and march against this government and get rid of them all. Im assuming your running for a government position then so you can make a policy change on politicians wages and setting a higher minimum wage. Thats the ONLY way that can be done. Or is this just another post telling others what they really ought to do but not actually standing up and doing something themselves about it. "I don't need to do that as I work for myself, I see you never answered my question on your hourly rate so please do that then we can then debate your other points | |||
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"By the way, who sets the rules of the debate? Surely debate brings in all the issues surrounding and affecting a subject? Or is that too difficult and you might ‘lose’ an argument? Post contentious posts, expect contentious responses." If you had said " what about corrupt bankers and politician " etc etc etc then it could have been discussed but you said " remember folks its NOT about bankers and politicians" blah blah its all about people on benefits . Thats a different thing bud as you know. | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. Simple answer is no, if people want to work then by all means help them find a job that actually pays to keep them in that job, we are the one of the richest nations in the world and yet our min wage is under a tenner which is a joke, I can bet you don't get paid a tenner an hour do you? How about halfing every politics wage and put that towards helping the unemployed instead of them do absolutely nothing to earn that amount of money plus living expenses and so on, stop with attacking the unemployed and march against this government and get rid of them all. Im assuming your running for a government position then so you can make a policy change on politicians wages and setting a higher minimum wage. Thats the ONLY way that can be done. Or is this just another post telling others what they really ought to do but not actually standing up and doing something themselves about it.
I don't need to do that as I work for myself, I see you never answered my question on your hourly rate so please do that then we can then debate your other points"If divulging my salary is a prerequisite of having a debate with you im happy to bypass your comments and not debate anything with you personally. Thx anyway.  | |||
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"By the way, who sets the rules of the debate? Surely debate brings in all the issues surrounding and affecting a subject? Or is that too difficult and you might ‘lose’ an argument? Post contentious posts, expect contentious responses. If you had said " what about corrupt bankers and politician " etc etc etc then it could have been discussed but you said " remember folks its NOT about bankers and politicians" blah blah its all about people on benefits . Thats a different thing bud as you know." Not it is not, it's about a fair days wage for a fair days work, unemployed ppl are in the lowest rung possible and struggle day to day to just put food on the table yet you want them to go out and get a job that pays the minimum wage and sometimes not even getting that thus making them worse off after bills rent council tax is added on, it for me depends on their wage and if it's worth it to go out pay taxes and end up worse than they where before. | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. Simple answer is no, if people want to work then by all means help them find a job that actually pays to keep them in that job, we are the one of the richest nations in the world and yet our min wage is under a tenner which is a joke, I can bet you don't get paid a tenner an hour do you? How about halfing every politics wage and put that towards helping the unemployed instead of them do absolutely nothing to earn that amount of money plus living expenses and so on, stop with attacking the unemployed and march against this government and get rid of them all. Im assuming your running for a government position then so you can make a policy change on politicians wages and setting a higher minimum wage. Thats the ONLY way that can be done. Or is this just another post telling others what they really ought to do but not actually standing up and doing something themselves about it.
I don't need to do that as I work for myself, I see you never answered my question on your hourly rate so please do that then we can then debate your other points
If divulging my salary is a prerequisite of having a debate with you im happy to bypass your comments and not debate anything with you personally. Thx anyway. "And there you have it, if you don't like soneone else's opinion don't ask a question in a forum, now on that note am done conversing with someone who is a racist Tory snob who was born with a silver spoon stuck up his ass. Toodle bye old chap. | |||
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"By the way, who sets the rules of the debate? Surely debate brings in all the issues surrounding and affecting a subject? Or is that too difficult and you might ‘lose’ an argument? Post contentious posts, expect contentious responses. If you had said " what about corrupt bankers and politician " etc etc etc then it could have been discussed but you said " remember folks its NOT about bankers and politicians" blah blah its all about people on benefits . Thats a different thing bud as you know." Eh what? You are familiar with sarcasm I take it? You’ve STILL not answered the question above that post, which gives that response I gave context. Why discuss your hypothetical xboxer who is just in your head when in fact unemployment due to lack of skills and education, poverty and poor wages are the real issues. Not a few lazy buggers who can’t be helped. Enforced work by the state has a certain historical context don’t you think? | |||
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"I'm one of them paid under £10 an hour cleaning someone's else's parent, brother/sisters etc shit and wiping there arses everyday so there last few weeks or days of life are comfortable. So for those who think that unemployed should be doing that to help nurses do their "real" job of caring for the ill do you think it's an easy job to do?? For those who see it as a low skilled job you've really no idea. For some of them sick people we are they only people they see everyday cause family can't be bothered anymore. If you actually knew what that job entails then perhaps you'd think differently about any random persons being able to do it and would you be fine with that if it was one of your own needing that care?" Appologies !! I got my erse kicked earlier for it and addressed it a few messages ago . | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. Simple answer is no, if people want to work then by all means help them find a job that actually pays to keep them in that job, we are the one of the richest nations in the world and yet our min wage is under a tenner which is a joke, I can bet you don't get paid a tenner an hour do you? How about halfing every politics wage and put that towards helping the unemployed instead of them do absolutely nothing to earn that amount of money plus living expenses and so on, stop with attacking the unemployed and march against this government and get rid of them all. Im assuming your running for a government position then so you can make a policy change on politicians wages and setting a higher minimum wage. Thats the ONLY way that can be done. Or is this just another post telling others what they really ought to do but not actually standing up and doing something themselves about it.
I don't need to do that as I work for myself, I see you never answered my question on your hourly rate so please do that then we can then debate your other points
If divulging my salary is a prerequisite of having a debate with you im happy to bypass your comments and not debate anything with you personally. Thx anyway.
And there you have it, if you don't like soneone else's opinion don't ask a question in a forum, now on that note am done conversing with someone who is a racist Tory snob who was born with a silver spoon stuck up his ass.
Toodle bye old chap."Does this assesment go out to me alone or all the other people on the thread too that agreed with my opinion. John i always wondered what that pointy thing sticking out yer arse was , its a spoon , mystery solved. Remember what i say about insults during a debate. | |||
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"I'm one of them paid under £10 an hour cleaning someone's else's parent, brother/sisters etc shit and wiping there arses everyday so there last few weeks or days of life are comfortable. So for those who think that unemployed should be doing that to help nurses do their "real" job of caring for the ill do you think it's an easy job to do?? For those who see it as a low skilled job you've really no idea. For some of them sick people we are they only people they see everyday cause family can't be bothered anymore. If you actually knew what that job entails then perhaps you'd think differently about any random persons being able to do it and would you be fine with that if it was one of your own needing that care?" bit unfair saying their family cant be bothered you do a skilled job they cant I wont go into the rest of it but its seldom the familys not careing and im sure you would agree your employers cause major issues also but rarely the feet on the grounds fault | |||
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"Old saying when i was growing up,you get nothing for nothing in this world,no matter your background or upbringing." tell this to the muppets sitting in the house of lords making policy to run the country | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. " David, David Cameron ? That you? Been trolling fab since the referendum? | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. Simple answer is no, if people want to work then by all means help them find a job that actually pays to keep them in that job, we are the one of the richest nations in the world and yet our min wage is under a tenner which is a joke, I can bet you don't get paid a tenner an hour do you? How about halfing every politics wage and put that towards helping the unemployed instead of them do absolutely nothing to earn that amount of money plus living expenses and so on, stop with attacking the unemployed and march against this government and get rid of them all. Im assuming your running for a government position then so you can make a policy change on politicians wages and setting a higher minimum wage. Thats the ONLY way that can be done. Or is this just another post telling others what they really ought to do but not actually standing up and doing something themselves about it.
I don't need to do that as I work for myself, I see you never answered my question on your hourly rate so please do that then we can then debate your other points
If divulging my salary is a prerequisite of having a debate with you im happy to bypass your comments and not debate anything with you personally. Thx anyway.
And there you have it, if you don't like soneone else's opinion don't ask a question in a forum, now on that note am done conversing with someone who is a racist Tory snob who was born with a silver spoon stuck up his ass.
Toodle bye old chap.
Does this assesment go out to me alone or all the other people on the thread too that agreed with my opinion. John i always wondered what that pointy thing sticking out yer arse was , its a spoon , mystery solved.
Remember what i say about insults during a debate. "I don't see many that have agreed with your opinion and as for "Remember what i say about insults during a debate" ? that's not an insult its MY opinion, quite different how you like to insult the most needy people in our society for being too "lazy" to go find work so make them do a crap job just to bring down the unemployment levels, Give them a job that pays well and maybe just maybe they may take it, its sad that you feel this way, maybe you need to learn that some are not as fortunate as you or me but it doesn't make them any less deserving of a good life employed or not employed. | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. " They used to give them shovels when it snowed in years gone by and made them clear pavements in a given area, hand back the shovel at the end of the day and then get paid. Not against the idea | |||
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"Should people on benefits that are able to work, be forced to work for councils. Whether its painting walls, cleaning grafiti, gardening, litter picking or other low skilled work. Before picking up a benefits payment. David, David Cameron ? That you? Been trolling fab since the referendum?" Pucker up stewie...I'm gonna snog you for that | |||
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" And there you have it, if you don't like soneone else's opinion don't ask a question in a forum" Will you be taking your own advice? | |||
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"If you have been fortunate enough never to have in a situation where you have had to receive help from the state benefits then lucky you. Not all are on benefits are what you seem to believe. Personally I have worked all my days and through not been fit to work for few months had to rely on a top up from the benefit system which does not actually cover every day needs. If you think the community needs help then why not give up some of your own time too instead of discriminating only the unemployed. Feel like im repeating myself now. For yourself and the person above i dont think its a one shoe fits all i said a common sense approach weighing up individual needs and reasons why they should not be forced to comply. Its funny how not 1 person has actually come out and said yes its OK for a fit and healthy 20 year old to sit playing xbox all day, while collecting benefits . As for me helping the community, I served 2 years on the childrens panel ( voluntary work ) I drove a minibus for a volunteer group, ferrying kids around after school activities while parents worked ( volunteer work ) All while holding down a full time job. Was set to be a classroom assistant ( volunteer ) but job hours changed and made it unworkable. Any 1 of those things that 20 yr old sitting on his xbox could have done . " To cover those points you made 1. A 20 year old in my opinion has no place being on s children's panel as they don't have the life experience to deal with some of the stuff that goes on. 2. Last I looked a 20 year old cant drive a mini bus or van full of kids due to driving licence restrictions. I have personal experience with a 20 year old having to sign on as he couldn't get a job and was waiting to hear about college applications. Didn't make him lazy one bit as he never stopped looking. He got hit with the "lack of experience" speech in almost every interview. Not everyone on benefits wants to be there or csn can help it. Its the judgment of others that makes that even harder. Those in glass houses. | |||
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"If you have been fortunate enough never to have in a situation where you have had to receive help from the state benefits then lucky you. Not all are on benefits are what you seem to believe. Personally I have worked all my days and through not been fit to work for few months had to rely on a top up from the benefit system which does not actually cover every day needs. If you think the community needs help then why not give up some of your own time too instead of discriminating only the unemployed. Feel like im repeating myself now. For yourself and the person above i dont think its a one shoe fits all i said a common sense approach weighing up individual needs and reasons why they should not be forced to comply. Its funny how not 1 person has actually come out and said yes its OK for a fit and healthy 20 year old to sit playing xbox all day, while collecting benefits . As for me helping the community, I served 2 years on the childrens panel ( voluntary work ) I drove a minibus for a volunteer group, ferrying kids around after school activities while parents worked ( volunteer work ) All while holding down a full time job. Was set to be a classroom assistant ( volunteer ) but job hours changed and made it unworkable. Any 1 of those things that 20 yr old sitting on his xbox could have done . To cover those points you made 1. A 20 year old in my opinion has no place being on s children's panel as they don't have the life experience to deal with some of the stuff that goes on. 2. Last I looked a 20 year old cant drive a mini bus or van full of kids due to driving licence restrictions. I have personal experience with a 20 year old having to sign on as he couldn't get a job and was waiting to hear about college applications. Didn't make him lazy one bit as he never stopped looking. He got hit with the "lack of experience" speech in almost every interview. Not everyone on benefits wants to be there or csn can help it. Its the judgment of others that makes that even harder. Those in glass houses. " | |||
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"It’s amazing the complete ignorance a lot of people have regarding employment and the benefit system. Would it not be better to go out and research a bit before forming opinions? Or is being force fed shit by the media enough? Some of you could do with shadowing an unemployed person for a week or doing a shift at the food bank. People don’t just turn up and get handed money, if they don’t fulfill certain terms, which include applying for jobs with a travel time of 3 hours ( or Glasgow to Newcastle ) they will be SANCTIONED. If they cannot attend because they have a job interview, they get SANCTIONED. They are given NO money, be they family providers, teens who cannot get employment because older people are taking the jobs that used to be gateway employment or just your average person fallen on hard times. Benefits are no stress free hand out, they are degrading, inadequate and unreliable. Some people could do with a dose of humility here." Why has no one picked up on this comment and the one you made later You obviously have direct experience and you have basically nullified the debate People on benefits CANT do what the OP sugggested Full stop | |||
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