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Sexual harassment. What exactly is it?

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By *ighland gentleman OP   Man
over a year ago

Ardgay

After all the various cases that are in the news at present, what to you constitues sexual harassment?

With regards to the Hollywood producer, I thought the casting couch was a well known phenomenon and am a bit surprised that all the lovies are acting all shocked.

As to the government minister sending his PA to buy sex toys, is that harassment or just plain inappropriate. What if it had been flowers or chocolates?

And how about on FAB, does sending messages when they are not replied to count as sexual harassment?

Or even just the one faf?

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By *vbride1963TV/TS
over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow

I’ve a feeling it has a different meaning for whoever is on the receiving end to some it will be inappropriate remarks or touching others may dislike someone looking to long at them . Using authority to get intimate with a subordinate is physically and mentally unacceptable .

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By *eiaorganaWoman
over a year ago

Dundee

'harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks.'

is the recognised definition of harassment.

This would include being whistled at or lewd comments while travelling, which sadly most people don't think of as harassment as it's so commonplace.

If guys are ever unsure I ask them how they would feel if some guy spoke like that to their mum?

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By *eiaorganaWoman
over a year ago

Dundee

The basic point is that, regardless of intent, it is how something is perceived by the receiver that matters.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think this is getting way out of hand to be honest

I'd say anything physical is defo harassment and should be punished !

But ffs seriously a wolf whistle?

And to those actresses who are coming out the woodwork to say Weinstein did this to them why wait until now to come forward? Why after the event get pictures taken with him laughing and joking?

Sorry but if some sleezeball did that to me id defo be putting my self respect before my need to get an acting career?

Ps...just my opinion

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By *ID 123456Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Crowd of girls wolf whistle at me the other day ,was so hurt I cried for two days ,PC gone totally nuts in my opinion

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By *eiaorganaWoman
over a year ago

Dundee

Yep, wolfwhistling is also classed as harassment.

Not something I ever have to put up with, but some of my friends cannot walk a single day to work without a whistle or a comment being shouted at them. All they want to do is go to work.

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By *eiaorganaWoman
over a year ago

Dundee

With regard to the actors coming forward, when you're at the bottom of your career ladder and someone at the top does that to you, I imagine it's very hard to speak up against them, and how likely are you to be believed if you do?

As I wasn't there I don't feel comfortable saying what they 'should' have done, because until you're in a situation you have no idea what you'll do. You might think you'll behave one way but the reality is different.

Just my opinion, anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"With regard to the actors coming forward, when you're at the bottom of your career ladder and someone at the top does that to you, I imagine it's very hard to speak up against them, and how likely are you to be believed if you do?

As I wasn't there I don't feel comfortable saying what they 'should' have done, because until you're in a situation you have no idea what you'll do. You might think you'll behave one way but the reality is different.

Just my opinion, anyway. "
and I agree...but...then yrs later have your picture taken with the said man that harassed you or even worse!! Sorry but that wrong!! I couldn't sleep at night thinking if I had said something then maybe someone else would have benefited from it? Angelina jolie for instance..yes starting out at the beginning of her career but her father was a huge actor at that point..surley something could have been said and even 10yrs ago she's a mega star why not say something then..?she would have been believed? She's a US women's ambassador for heaven's sake!! Only when it suits I think?

I stand by what I said earlier..career before morals it seems

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By *andsCouple
over a year ago

Edin

Wolf whistling in my opinion is not sexual harassment!! I think this is where things as usual get taken way out of context.

I also disagree with anyone who waits years to come forward with allegations, come forward at the time regardless if you are just starting out in your career or not.

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By *nonandyMan
over a year ago

Near Glasgow

That guy strikes as a bit of a sleaze and I reckon he probably has done something but their are probably a lot just jumping on the band wagon

Slightly different in this case because its celebrity scandal stuff but the main problem I have when I see these things is the naming and shaming the accused

Sex crimes are a terrible thing but imagine how the accused person feels if they actually didn't do it even after your acquitted the stigma of association and people saying no smoke without fire your life would be ruined

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By *awty MaxWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"Yep, wolfwhistling is also classed as harassment.

"

And so is groping!

There is currently in France a task force working on a text so a law can be passed and anyone found wolfwhistling/groping in a public place be fined when reported.

Particular focus in trains and metro.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Max...

Surely A wolfwhistle isn't the same as a grope?

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By *awty MaxWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"Max...

Surely A wolfwhistle isn't the same as a grope?

"

No, Not the same, but viewed as sexual harassment from what that task force is saying! Grope or whistle you will get a fine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

PC gone mad

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By *awty MaxWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"PC gone mad "

Yep! Wondering how long it is going to take them to all agree on what 'street sexual harassment' is!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

You will find that the person who is the victim of harrasment, bullying or any other lewed comments or actions is the only one that can define the actions against them.

The person who creates the situation cannot degree how the other person feels about thise actions.

Either fortunaley or unfortunatly a wolf whistle is sexual harrasment.

Im like most people now quitw insure of what is or isnt however asking a woman to watch while you wank is not a behaviour we should tolerate.

Also it is not just men who sexually harras women ....it works both ways.

sorry I dont mean to offened anyone.

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By *ID 123456Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Last night out i was at ,two women felt my bum ,I told them straight they had 10 minutes to stop it or I would get the police involved lol lol lol lol

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By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

and I really shoukd stoo typing on a feckin phone

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By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)


"Last night out i was at ,two women felt my bum ,I told them straight they had 10 minutes to stop it or I would get the police involved lol lol lol lol "

There you go ....guy cracks a joke in best meaning but I dont find it funny in this context.

it trivilises a very serious life changing subject.

no offence mate

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By *eiaorganaWoman
over a year ago

Dundee


"With regard to the actors coming forward, when you're at the bottom of your career ladder and someone at the top does that to you, I imagine it's very hard to speak up against them, and how likely are you to be believed if you do?

As I wasn't there I don't feel comfortable saying what they 'should' have done, because until you're in a situation you have no idea what you'll do. You might think you'll behave one way but the reality is different.

Just my opinion, anyway. and I agree...but...then yrs later have your picture taken with the said man that harassed you or even worse!! Sorry but that wrong!! I couldn't sleep at night thinking if I had said something then maybe someone else would have benefited from it? Angelina jolie for instance..yes starting out at the beginning of her career but her father was a huge actor at that point..surley something could have been said and even 10yrs ago she's a mega star why not say something then..?she would have been believed? She's a US women's ambassador for heaven's sake!! Only when it suits I think?

I stand by what I said earlier..career before morals it seems "

In some cases you may be right, but no one knows what has gone on in every case. Fear and power plays a big part I think.

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By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)


"With regard to the actors coming forward, when you're at the bottom of your career ladder and someone at the top does that to you, I imagine it's very hard to speak up against them, and how likely are you to be believed if you do?

As I wasn't there I don't feel comfortable saying what they 'should' have done, because until you're in a situation you have no idea what you'll do. You might think you'll behave one way but the reality is different.

Just my opinion, anyway. and I agree...but...then yrs later have your picture taken with the said man that harassed you or even worse!! Sorry but that wrong!! I couldn't sleep at night thinking if I had said something then maybe someone else would have benefited from it? Angelina jolie for instance..yes starting out at the beginning of her career but her father was a huge actor at that point..surley something could have been said and even 10yrs ago she's a mega star why not say something then..?she would have been believed? She's a US women's ambassador for heaven's sake!! Only when it suits I think?

I stand by what I said earlier..career before morals it seems

In some cases you may be right, but no one knows what has gone on in every case. Fear and power plays a big part I think."

For I reckon the sex was a way of showing his power.

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By *eiaorganaWoman
over a year ago

Dundee


"With regard to the actors coming forward, when you're at the bottom of your career ladder and someone at the top does that to you, I imagine it's very hard to speak up against them, and how likely are you to be believed if you do?

As I wasn't there I don't feel comfortable saying what they 'should' have done, because until you're in a situation you have no idea what you'll do. You might think you'll behave one way but the reality is different.

Just my opinion, anyway. and I agree...but...then yrs later have your picture taken with the said man that harassed you or even worse!! Sorry but that wrong!! I couldn't sleep at night thinking if I had said something then maybe someone else would have benefited from it? Angelina jolie for instance..yes starting out at the beginning of her career but her father was a huge actor at that point..surley something could have been said and even 10yrs ago she's a mega star why not say something then..?she would have been believed? She's a US women's ambassador for heaven's sake!! Only when it suits I think?

I stand by what I said earlier..career before morals it seems

In some cases you may be right, but no one knows what has gone on in every case. Fear and power plays a big part I think.

For I reckon the sex was a way of showing his power."

One of many ways, I'd imagine.

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By *ary_ArgyllMan
over a year ago

Argyll


"'harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks.'

is the recognised definition of harassment.

This would include being whistled at or lewd comments while travelling, which sadly most people don't think of as harassment as it's so commonplace.

If guys are ever unsure I ask them how they would feel if some guy spoke like that to their mum?"

The problem with that definition is the word "unwanted" - how is someone supposed to know it is "unwanted".

This tends to lead to the situation where one has to assume anything would be unwanted to avoid the risk of committing an offence.

I fully understand that shoving your hand all over someone's arse at work will probably be unwanted but what about flirting or sexual innuendo among people who know each other - clearly this can be classed as sexual harassment but is it always and aren't women sometimes as guilty of this as men?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You will find that the person who is the victim of harrasment, bullying or any other lewed comments or actions is the only one that can define the actions against them.

The person who creates the situation cannot degree how the other person feels about thise actions.

Either fortunaley or unfortunatly a wolf whistle is sexual harrasment.

Im like most people now quitw insure of what is or isnt however asking a woman to watch while you wank is not a behaviour we should tolerate.

Also it is not just men who sexually harras women ....it works both ways.

sorry I dont mean to offened anyone."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"'harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks.'

is the recognised definition of harassment.

This would include being whistled at or lewd comments while travelling, which sadly most people don't think of as harassment as it's so commonplace.

If guys are ever unsure I ask them how they would feel if some guy spoke like that to their mum?

The problem with that definition is the word "unwanted" - how is someone supposed to know it is "unwanted".

This tends to lead to the situation where one has to assume anything would be unwanted to avoid the risk of committing an offence.

I fully understand that shoving your hand all over someone's arse at work will probably be unwanted but what about flirting or sexual innuendo among people who know each other - clearly this can be classed as sexual harassment but is it always and aren't women sometimes as guilty of this as men?"

I'm not.

(I appreciate that's not what you were really asking)

I was groped in a large shop while I was shopping with my husband and my very young daughter. I'm not trying to make light of it, but what do you do? I was horrified, but was also protective of my child and my husband who wanted to, well, embarrass him a little.

Since then... I work with gen pub and have to put up with sexualised comments Every. Day. (not seen you going jogging lately - reference to my boobs)...

This is just my life.

I want to be able to dress nicely and not feel objectified on a night out.

I want that for my daughter.

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By *ighland gentleman OP   Man
over a year ago

Ardgay

Just thinking of recently at work, a female colleague stated I smelt nice but for me to say that to her would, in my opinion be a bit risky

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You are literally scaeed to say anything to anyone these days including complimenting someone. How the hell are people going to have a relationship or even have sex these days if you have to consult the "appropriare words" bible every time you speak to someone.

Before im lambasted of course certain things such as unwanted physical contact, are unacceptable but what the fuck has happened to common sense and taiing a bit of responsibility for your actions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh and im sorry about the typing before the vocabulary police drag my ass away.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just thinking of recently at work, a female colleague stated I smelt nice but for me to say that to her would, in my opinion be a bit risky "

It would depend on how and exactly what was said to be honest.

"Hey Mrs D, that's a nice perfume, lovely and fresh, what is it?"

Or

"You smell really good ( leans in for a sniff and invades my personal space).

I'd say about 8/10 of the women I know have encountered some sort of sexual harassment (full on sexual references, groping etc). I've had a work colleague start massaging my shoulders cause he said I looked tense. I've had a man rub his hard on against my backside in a busy shop when I was on holiday with my parents. I said nothing because I know my Dad would have set about the prick and most likely ended up in jail. I've also been followed into toilets by a group of guys (on holiday again.) Other things have happened but won't bore you with the details.

I personally don't see wolf whistling as sexual harassment. I've grown in confidence with age and can either respond with a cheeky grin or a cheeky reply depending on my mood that day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Definition of sexual harassment:

Conduct likely to offend if not reciprocated mutually or containing an element of duress.

I work closely with a number of very attractive young women and observe a simple code of personal respect- no touching and no innuendo. Works a treat. It's not hard to be nice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Definition of sexual harassment:

Conduct likely to offend if not reciprocated mutually or containing an element of duress.

I work closely with a number of very attractive young women and observe a simple code of personal respect- no touching and no innuendo. Works a treat. It's not hard to be nice. "

Thank fuck thinking lewd thoughts is not yet illegal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Definition of sexual harassment:

Conduct likely to offend if not reciprocated mutually or containing an element of duress.

I work closely with a number of very attractive young women and observe a simple code of personal respect- no touching and no innuendo. Works a treat. It's not hard to be nice. "

This

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By *hav02Man
over a year ago

Glasgow/London

I was thinking this too. Sexual harassment gone crazy lately.

Really depends more on the dynamics of the two people involved.

I saw an episode of Celebrity Juice last week and wondered how Keith Lemon gets away with his rather crude sexual comments where the women are cringing.

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By *nox.Woman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Really don't think you can blame victims for not coming forward. It's called victim shaming, why didn't they come forward why wait so long why take pics with him, well because they expect nobody will believe them or place blame on them even years later.

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By *awty MaxWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"I was thinking this too. Sexual harassment gone crazy lately.

Really depends more on the dynamics of the two people involved.

I saw an episode of Celebrity Juice last week and wondered how Keith Lemon gets away with his rather crude sexual comments where the women are cringing."

We have a TV presenter similar to him in France.

He has got away with it for so long but over last few months because of all the negatives tweets and complaints etc... the TV Censor Admin had to react and in June they banned all advertising during his show and all advertising 15mins before and after his show!

He has since refrained from his inappropriate gestures with guests!

I don't know/understand why the female guests never complained or why would any female want to work in his show!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If these Hollywood stars value their careers more than their dignity thenthat was their choice at the time but in my opinion if you make that choice you need to stand by it not wait till your career is established then start kicking off about it.

Now everyone is crawling out of the woodwork and the problem is after all these years it will be difficult if someone is wrongly accused to prove their innocence.

There needs to be a reasonable time allowed then a cut off point for reporting these sort of things. Just my opinion but doesn’t detract from the awfulness of what has become a culture of acceptable behaviour in work circles.

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By *eiaorganaWoman
over a year ago

Dundee


"If these Hollywood stars value their careers more than their dignity thenthat was their choice at the time but in my opinion if you make that choice you need to stand by it not wait till your career is established then start kicking off about it.

Now everyone is crawling out of the woodwork and the problem is after all these years it will be difficult if someone is wrongly accused to prove their innocence.

There needs to be a reasonable time allowed then a cut off point for reporting these sort of things. Just my opinion but doesn’t detract from the awfulness of what has become a culture of acceptable behaviour in work circles."

It doesn't come down to choosing between career and dignity!!

For many people it's fear and shame, and denial, that keeps them quiet for many years. Some people can't admit to themselves or even realise what's been done to them, or that they've been manipulated, or doubt that they will be believed if they speak out.

How many times have we heard in sexual assault trials that the victim has been questioned over their choice of clothing, how many drinks they had - as if that excuses anything!

The blame lies with the perpetrator, not the victim and how they deal with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree with all of the above but my point is saying why after being assaulted would you then be in the same room As the guy let alone get your picture took with the said abuser???

Surely you wouldn't want to be anywhere near the guy?

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By *eiaorganaWoman
over a year ago

Dundee


"Agree with all of the above but my point is saying why after being assaulted would you then be in the same room As the guy let alone get your picture took with the said abuser???

Surely you wouldn't want to be anywhere near the guy?"

Perhaps you wouldn't, but you're in a room full of people and are contractually obliged. They may ensure they are never alone with him. Who knows, that's why saying they should do this and that is pointless because unless someone is there they can't comment on a situation.

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By *ackan1Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I know a guy that owns a sail Boat and after a interview he invites you out on it to get to know you better. His pick up line is like would you have sex with me for the Job (he is 100% gay).

I know this as I know the guy and also know poeple that work for him. Guessing if you work for his company you know who he is.

But not giving anything out. As it is a well know company around Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can only give my opinion and I can tell you right now...if someone did to me or even someone I knew there's not a good in hell I would be within 100 yards of them...contractual or otherwise..say your unwell and pull out of the event solo many excuse they could use ...but...you don't get your face in the tabloids by staying at home now do they?

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By *eiaorganaWoman
over a year ago

Dundee


"I can only give my opinion and I can tell you right now...if someone did to me or even someone I knew there's not a good in hell I would be within 100 yards of them...contractual or otherwise..say your unwell and pull out of the event solo many excuse they could use ...but...you don't get your face in the tabloids by staying at home now do they?"

All I was saying is that no one knows how they or anyone else would react in a situation until it happens to them.

I'd like to think I could handle myself but who knows until I'm put to the test?

These women have come forward now, and he can't do it to anyone else. So at least that's something. I will not judge them on their decisions leading up to this point.

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By *dmirationMan
over a year ago

Bathgate

My partners suffered sexual harassment at work to the point where she had to Leave. Yes she complained and the way they handled it was to offer her another place Miles away it just wasn't freezable for her so she left! it even got to the point where I had a word and he ran to the police! They took his side. This now effects my partner to this day. She will not work in an environment with lots of men and her boss is Female.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is only one answer for this and that is:- do not look at any one in case they take it the wrong way, do not make any contact with anyone, as they could claim assault, do not talk to any one with a sexy over tone and of course do not wolf whistle at the opposite sex. Just go through life worried that some one will take offence. Zombies going through life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When is something harassment under the Act?

Generally speaking harassment is behaviour which causes you distress or alarm.

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By *dmirationMan
over a year ago

Bathgate


"There is only one answer for this and that is:- do not look at any one in case they take it the wrong way, do not make any contact with anyone, as they could claim assault, do not talk to any one with a sexy over tone and of course do not wolf whistle at the opposite sex. Just go through life worried that some one will take offence. Zombies going through life."

And that's the sort of answer you would expect from a guy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I actually agreed with him

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By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)

lol I dont

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sexual harrasement what is it i want some

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you get the chance listen to The Kaye Adams Show on Radio Scotland on iplayer. The phone in on sexual harassment was pretty good but some callers had me thinking "wtf". Apparently a woman wearing a a skirt and crossing her legs is attention seeking. Would he prefer we sat legs akimbo?

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By *rgoodnbadMan
over a year ago

greenock

Remember my first job at 16 in the local bakery. There was a cleaner that used to fondle all the young guys. One day I was washing my hands when I felt my balls being tickled, It took a moment to register. I then moved out of her reach, but she followed me around trying to get her hands in my overalls.

Wasn't scary, but I just wasn't prepared for this at that age.

Since then I've been in jobs working alongside women and lost count of the amount of sexual innuendos and slurs directed at me and other guys.

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By *uietbloke67Man
over a year ago

outside your bedroom window ;-)


"Sexual harrasement what is it i want some"

Youd be happy with your male boss asking you to watch him wank for promotion then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Remember my first job at 16 in the local bakery. There was a cleaner that used to fondle all the young guys. One day I was washing my hands when I felt my balls being tickled, It took a moment to register. I then moved out of her reach, but she followed me around trying to get her hands in my overalls.

Wasn't scary, but I just wasn't prepared for this at that age.

Since then I've been in jobs working alongside women and lost count of the amount of sexual innuendos and slurs directed at me and other guys. "

That's horrible and too often is made fun of when you're a guy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If agree

Not once in the media have I heard of any men coming forward to say this has happens to them as they defo would be told to man up

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By *rgoodnbadMan
over a year ago

greenock


"Remember my first job at 16 in the local bakery. There was a cleaner that used to fondle all the young guys. One day I was washing my hands when I felt my balls being tickled, It took a moment to register. I then moved out of her reach, but she followed me around trying to get her hands in my overalls.

Wasn't scary, but I just wasn't prepared for this at that age.

Since then I've been in jobs working alongside women and lost count of the amount of sexual innuendos and slurs directed at me and other guys.

That's horrible and too often is made fun of when you're a guy.

"
I've developed a thicker skin as I've grown older disgracefully and gave out as good as I got most of the time, but sometimes a wee remarks would stop me in my tracks and I'd slope off with the proverbial riddy

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By *ighland gentleman OP   Man
over a year ago

Ardgay


"If you get the chance listen to The Kaye Adams Show on Radio Scotland on iplayer. The phone in on sexual harassment was pretty good but some callers had me thinking "wtf". Apparently a woman wearing a a skirt and crossing her legs is attention seeking. Would he prefer we sat legs akimbo? "

Good old George who is never going to vote for the SNP again because Swinney said that men should think about how they interact with women!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you get the chance listen to The Kaye Adams Show on Radio Scotland on iplayer. The phone in on sexual harassment was pretty good but some callers had me thinking "wtf". Apparently a woman wearing a a skirt and crossing her legs is attention seeking. Would he prefer we sat legs akimbo?

Good old George who is never going to vote for the SNP again because Swinney said that men should think about how they interact with women! "

I know. The old guy after him was even worse though. I was waiting on him using the phrase "they're asking for it" and my foot was going to go through the radio.

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