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Indyref2

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Let's take a bit of responsibility and have the courage to make Scotland the country we want it to be.

Let's do talking uninformed nonsense on immigration and realise we have an aging population, declining tax base and cannot survive without inward migration.

Let's not become a low tax, low job security, paid health service, mini America in thrall to lunatics and dictators.

Let's not pretend that the SNP are perfect and that we don't have problems that need addressed. But let's realise we are best taking them ourselves.

Let's be the modern, successful, open country we all want to be.

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By *eather47Woman
over a year ago

Glasgow

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By *earded villainMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

more yes now than ever

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As much as I totally agree

This post will more than likely turn sour

But good luck

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By *itsmcgee4Couple
over a year ago

Central

I agree with the sentiment OP but I did imagine your entire post in Ewan McGregors voice. It's a bit "Choose Life"

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I look like Ewan McGregor too.. ??

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Lets go with what was decided

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By *itsmcgee4Couple
over a year ago

Central


"I look like Ewan McGregor too.. ??"

Lets forget the whole independence thing for a sec... look like Ewan McGregor you say

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I know what you are saying pal. It's very soon. But brexit is an epic economic and social disaster.

Times have changed.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I look like Ewan McGregor too.. ??

Lets forget the whole independence thing for a sec... look like Ewan McGregor you say "

Yes, it's been said. During the toilet scene.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"I know what you are saying pal. It's very soon. But brexit is an epic economic and social disaster.

Times have changed. "

I get that your belief is as you have said that dosnt change a decision was made.the only way it can be peoven to be a disaster is with hindsight as it hasnt happened yet its just a claim. To my mind if the focus was shifted to getting on with a decided decision rather than campaigning for another ref. Then we can only prosper. A ref will come in its own time though im sure we wont hear the end of it till independence is reached then the remain poetion will be told to shut up and accept or move south lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Brexit is an epic economic and social disaster"

....so let's have Scottish independence

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


""Brexit is an epic economic and social disaster"

....so let's have Scottish independence

"

Got it on one, mate. Excellent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We voted just over 2 years ago and it was a NO, can't have a referendum every time you don't get what you want, the SNP need to Govern properly and not blame everyone else, thy have the power to better the schools bit choose to make out its Westminster's fault so they can ask for another referendum, they are doing a terrible job in power at the moment. A council tax freeze for the past few years might be a vote winner but look how council services are cut time and time again as it's not feasible to budget on 2016/2017 with funding which is the same as 2012/2013.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"We voted just over 2 years ago and it was a NO, can't have a referendum every time you don't get what you want, the SNP need to Govern properly and not blame everyone else, thy have the power to better the schools bit choose to make out its Westminster's fault so they can ask for another referendum, they are doing a terrible job in power at the moment. A council tax freeze for the past few years might be a vote winner but look how council services are cut time and time again as it's not feasible to budget on 2016/2017 with funding which is the same as 2012/2013."

Brexit means change is coming whether we like it or not. 2014 status quo not available anymore no matter what. Brexit will destroy UK economy and no serious bank, think tank, economist or commentator has said anything different. Time to leave a sinking ship.

SNP have control over 30 tax revenue and 15% welfare. Attainment gap in education serious but cannot be tackled fully without full powers to deal with Tory driven poverty.

Ctax freeze is ended.

Time to take control over our affairs.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have "

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lets be honest the SNP have blown it. The education system is failing, Transport is a ram shackle joke of a service, I use it daily i know how it is...The health service seems to be struggling to cope...I think Ms Sturgeon should be very careful what she wishes for, in my office her support is on the wane...Too many soundbites far too few sensible policies...The anti-english aspect is a real vote loser as well . xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

"

It 2014 Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.

There was no reference to the EU on the ballot paper.

The game SNP are no playing here is obvious but the Scottish people will not fooled.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/02/17 14:27:57]

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Lets be honest the SNP have blown it. The education system is failing, Transport is a ram shackle joke of a service, I use it daily i know how it is...The health service seems to be struggling to cope...I think Ms Sturgeon should be very careful what she wishes for, in my office her support is on the wane...Too many soundbites far too few sensible policies...The anti-english aspect is a real vote loser as well . xx "

Education is not failing. One of the best education systems in the world but yes, attainment gap and yes, marginally worse outcomes when compared to ruk. But to look at education in isolation is to misunderstand nature of poverty.

Transport across UK failing due to decades of chronic underinvestment. To blame SNP is daft.

Health service outperforms ruk on all key indicators. All of them. SNP success story.

Antienglish stuff? Where? Scotland most pro immigration part of UK.

Hope that helps your thinking.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

It 2014 Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.

There was no reference to the EU on the ballot paper.

The game SNP are no playing here is obvious but the Scottish people will not fooled."

Em, you have noticed brexit aye?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

It 2014 Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.

There was no reference to the EU on the ballot paper.

The game SNP are no playing here is obvious but the Scottish people will not fooled.

Em, you have noticed brexit aye?! "

Of course. We voted to leave. I'm able to deal with it and move on.

SNP on the other hand appear to be using it to further their ends though. Who'd have thunk it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

It 2014 Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.

There was no reference to the EU on the ballot paper.

The game SNP are no playing here is obvious but the Scottish people will not fooled.

Em, you have noticed brexit aye?!

Of course. We voted to leave. I'm able to deal with it and move on.

SNP on the other hand appear to be using it to further their ends though. Who'd have thunk it."

It's not about personal emotional acceptance of brexit.

It's about understanding the impact it will have on us and our kids. If you think it'll be fine then please direct me to the learned economic analysis saying that?

Moving on isn't an option I'd suggest. Change is coming and you can choose to be passive or proactive.

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By *oanne_MacTV/TS
over a year ago

Perth


"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

It 2014 Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.

There was no reference to the EU on the ballot paper.

The game SNP are no playing here is obvious but the Scottish people will not fooled."

A big part of the NO campaign was the claims that the only way to protect scotlands place in the EU was to reject independance, less than two years later the UK parliment has voted to leave the EU.... Voters were lied to...

Also 2years on, where are all these devomax powers promised if scotland voted no?... Another lie.

If theres another referendum i'll be voting yes again.

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By *unseekers87Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow ish


"I agree with the sentiment OP but I did imagine your entire post in Ewan McGregors voice. It's a bit "Choose Life" "

Now I'm imagining it too lol

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow


"Time to leave a sinking ship.

"

The only sinking ship around here is the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lets accept what the majority votef for and turn our focus to actually running the country with the power we already have

What we voted for in 2014 does not exist anymore. Not Scotland's choice either but there you go.

No matter how you press the it, Scottish parliament does not control Scotland fully.

Let's change that and take responsibility for our affairs.

It 2014 Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK.

There was no reference to the EU on the ballot paper.

The game SNP are no playing here is obvious but the Scottish people will not fooled.

A big part of the NO campaign was the claims that the only way to protect scotlands place in the EU was to reject independance, less than two years later the UK parliment has voted to leave the EU.... Voters were lied to...

Also 2years on, where are all these devomax powers promised if scotland voted no?... Another lie.

If theres another referendum i'll be voting yes again."

Fine, if there's another referendum I'll be voting no again as eu membership was not particularly relevant to me in THAT referendum, hence nothing has changed.

Also won't take any lessons from people warning of economic carnage due to brexit who wanted Scotland to be independent in 2014. Now that woulda been REAL carnage I'm sure we can all agree.

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow


"Lets be honest the SNP have blown it. The education system is failing, Transport is a ram shackle joke of a service, I use it daily i know how it is...The health service seems to be struggling to cope...I think Ms Sturgeon should be very careful what she wishes for, in my office her support is on the wane...Too many soundbites far too few sensible policies...The anti-english aspect is a real vote loser as well . xx "

Couldn't agree more!!!

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow


"Lets be honest the SNP have blown it. The education system is failing, Transport is a ram shackle joke of a service, I use it daily i know how it is...The health service seems to be struggling to cope...I think Ms Sturgeon should be very careful what she wishes for, in my office her support is on the wane...Too many soundbites far too few sensible policies...The anti-english aspect is a real vote loser as well . xx

Education is not failing. One of the best education systems in the world but yes, attainment gap and yes, marginally worse outcomes when compared to ruk. But to look at education in isolation is to misunderstand nature of poverty.

Transport across UK failing due to decades of chronic underinvestment. To blame SNP is daft.

Health service outperforms ruk on all key indicators. All of them. SNP success story.

Antienglish stuff? Where? Scotland most pro immigration part of UK.

Hope that helps your thinking.

"

Quite frankly, you're deluded!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I see the daily mail and daily express continues to enjoy an avid readership in Scotland. Oh well.

I'd suggest you can't just cover your eyes, plug your ears and sing la la la and pretend brexit isn't happening.

I don't fancy the idea of closed small minded xenophobic Britain flogging weapons to despots and demonising brown people and the poor.

But maybe that's just me.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

The last thing either side wanted was division in the populace guess what lol. Horrible to say this but it sometimes feels like children stamping their feet im not playing till we are independant. Accept its what first scotland decided then the uk as a whole decided instead of conspiracy theorys. The time will come again acceptance is needed now though which I dont see much of.as for the doom n gloom brigade our economy was supposed to crash days after the brexit vote it dipped and picked up so much for think tanks and economists

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"The last thing either side wanted was division in the populace guess what lol. Horrible to say this but it sometimes feels like children stamping their feet im not playing till we are independant. Accept its what first scotland decided then the uk as a whole decided instead of conspiracy theorys. The time will come again acceptance is needed now though which I dont see much of.as for the doom n gloom brigade our economy was supposed to crash days after the brexit vote it dipped and picked up so much for think tanks and economists "

It's not children pal..It's deadly serious. Brexit has not happened hence no crash.

Please direct me to the serious economic analysis which predicts brexit will be good for UK. A link will suffice..

I'll look forward to it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh well indeed

You started the thread trying to gain support for independence, and to be honest made some fair points

But now...people have different opinions!!!! How dare they...

"You are all daily mail and daily express readers"

That attitude is a part of the reason the nationalists failed in 2014. And will fail again.

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling

Everyone is saying that brexit should mean a second Scottish referendum. What makes euro zone so good. Other countries are looking at holding referendums and voicing their opions of also leaving. And the GBP is still stronger than the euro and the Dollar

Supposing we did become independent we are unlikely going to gain entry into Europe as various current members have stated. So we would be cut adrift from Brittian and Europe. (Also need a gdp of under 4% Scotland's sits at 9.7%)

The snp want to ban trump so America might be a tad tricky. However wee Eck was happy to cosy up and let him build a golf course against the locals will to be fair.

People are saying about a hard brexit leaving a union that lasted over 30 years. Well one that's lasted over 300 hundred should be breeze eh. Not to mention the fact we do three times the amount of business with the rest of the U.K. Than we do with Europe.

In addition, the Snp lost the last referendum as the failed to answer important question ie reliance on oil, currency tackling the countries debt levels, etc were still waiting on answers.

Maybe, just a wee idea they could try being a ruling party and not a protest party and concentrate on governing.

I knew as we as all did that during the last Indy ref their was going to be a European Union referendum. We voted remain with that knowledge. How about we stick together and try and get through it together.

Undoubly I'm going to be called a coward, traitor, anti Scottish etc but hay ho lol

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Oh well indeed

You started the thread trying to gain support for independence, and to be honest made some fair points

But now...people have different opinions!!!! How dare they...

"You are all daily mail and daily express readers"

That attitude is a part of the reason the nationalists failed in 2014. And will fail again."

If you decide your future based on such trivial concerns then fair enough. This is forum of anonymous folk so looser language possibly not a surprise but... I do take your point.

Ask yourself: do you want to be poorer? Do you want to control your own affairs? Do you understand ans agree that we desperately need inward migration? Do you want Teresa may deciding your future?

Therein lies your vote in indyref2.

No one will know if you secretly decide to vote yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Aaahhhh don't you just love all this sexy chat and flirting on a sexy site.......

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Aaahhhh don't you just love all this sexy chat and flirting on a sexy site....... "

Nothing sexier than our futures...

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By *itsmcgee4Couple
over a year ago

Central


"Aaahhhh don't you just love all this sexy chat and flirting on a sexy site....... "

Agreed! At least the football one seems to have died a death

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Aaahhhh don't you just love all this sexy chat and flirting on a sexy site.......

Agreed! At least the football one seems to have died a death "

Well actually I have some interesting thoughts on the cattenaccio system developed by Interested Milan in the 60's...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Aaahhhh don't you just love all this sexy chat and flirting on a sexy site.......

Agreed! At least the football one seems to have died a death "

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

Let's solve the problem of leaving the market we export £12.3bn to by instead leaving the market we export £49.8bn to. That'll work...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Oh well indeed

You started the thread trying to gain support for independence, and to be honest made some fair points

But now...people have different opinions!!!! How dare they...

"You are all daily mail and daily express readers"

That attitude is a part of the reason the nationalists failed in 2014. And will fail again."

If it wasn't all so awful last time around I would actually welcome Indyref 2. I believe there would be way less than 45% voting yes. And maybe, just maybe the ones refusing to accept the last result will finally hud their wheesht for a while...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any fucking difference

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any fucking difference

"

Aww. You could always emigrate to Syria

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Everyone is saying that brexit should mean a second Scottish referendum. What makes euro zone so good. Other countries are looking at holding referendums and voicing their opions of also leaving. And the GBP is still stronger than the euro and the Dollar

Supposing we did become independent we are unlikely going to gain entry into Europe as various current members have stated. So we would be cut adrift from Brittian and Europe. (Also need a gdp of under 4% Scotland's sits at 9.7%)

The snp want to ban trump so America might be a tad tricky. However wee Eck was happy to cosy up and let him build a golf course against the locals will to be fair.

People are saying about a hard brexit leaving a union that lasted over 30 years. Well one that's lasted over 300 hundred should be breeze eh. Not to mention the fact we do three times the amount of business with the rest of the U.K. Than we do with Europe.

In addition, the Snp lost the last referendum as the failed to answer important question ie reliance on oil, currency tackling the countries debt levels, etc were still waiting on answers.

Maybe, just a wee idea they could try being a ruling party and not a protest party and concentrate on governing.

I knew as we as all did that during the last Indy ref their was going to be a European Union referendum. We voted remain with that knowledge. How about we stick together and try and get through it together.

Undoubly I'm going to be called a coward, traitor, anti Scottish etc but hay ho lol

"

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Let's solve the problem of leaving the market we export £12.3bn to by instead leaving the market we export £49.8bn to. That'll work..."

Okay...So Scottish uk trade ceases after Indy? Like say UK EU trade? Or UK anywhere else trade?

Trade will still take place and to suggest otherwise is fanciful.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any fucking difference

Aww. You could always emigrate to Syria "

Awesome I might do that.lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Let's solve the problem of leaving the market we export £12.3bn to by instead leaving the market we export £49.8bn to. That'll work...

Okay...So Scottish uk trade ceases after Indy? Like say UK EU trade? Or UK anywhere else trade?

Trade will still take place and to suggest otherwise is fanciful. "

Have the snp came up with a valid plan yet other than the white paper as that was only an idea of what could happen if we where to get independence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An independent Scotland won't be part of the eu anyway and with France on the verge of leaving who would want to be.

The snp are signing their own death warrant imo. 1/3 of their members voted to leave the eu so it is likely to cause massive division within the party.

Once in a lifetime

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"Let's solve the problem of leaving the market we export £12.3bn to by instead leaving the market we export £49.8bn to. That'll work...

Okay...So Scottish uk trade ceases after Indy? Like say UK EU trade? Or UK anywhere else trade?

Trade will still take place and to suggest otherwise is fanciful. "

As I've pointed out before on here the whole issue with Brexit is that the UK loses open access to the EU single market. In it's place there will be trade tarrifs etc. That's the huge downside to Brexit.

So that being the case if indy Scotland joins the EU and the UK leaves indy Scotland is in the single market and therefore all trade with the UK will be subject to tarrifs.

You can't say leaving the EU is bad because of the impact it'll have on trade etc and then somehow try to claim that trade between one tiny part of the EU (Scotland) somehow won't be subject to the same rules as the rest of the EU.

That's pretty clear and straightforward.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also if you seen wee eck on the politics show on Sunday you will know they are no further forward with their currency plan yet

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling

doubt it the last white paper was a farce. wee Eck said it was guaranteed $120 a barrel for crude oil. Thank goodness we swerved that.

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"doubt it the last white paper was a farce. wee Eck said it was guaranteed $120 a barrel for crude oil. Thank goodness we swerved that. "

The white paper had Scotland's income from oil for this year projected to be between £6.9bn and £7.9bn. The actual figure..... it's -£287million. The minus is due to the fact the govt is now actually subsidising the industry with tax breaks, refunds.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Exactly, if it wasn't for Westminster right now UK oil and Gas in the North Sea would be in a worse state than it is now. But don't worry the SNP have spent £27million on cardboard boxes for babies which will solve everything.

I think their research into these boxes failed to highlight that they only work when coupled with excellent midwifery and health visitors. Ask any health visitor and midwife you want in Scotland and they will tell you exactly where that £27million would have been better spent.

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"Exactly, if it wasn't for Westminster right now UK oil and Gas in the North Sea would be in a worse state than it is now. But don't worry the SNP have spent £27million on cardboard boxes for babies which will solve everything.

I think their research into these boxes failed to highlight that they only work when coupled with excellent midwifery and health visitors. Ask any health visitor and midwife you want in Scotland and they will tell you exactly where that £27million would have been better spent. "

The baby box expenditure could be a scandal in the making. This link explains all

https://graeme-from-it.tumblr.com/post/157189417936/boxofdelights

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling

Thought It was great when sturgeon was trying to make deals with Ireland to stay in the eu. The same Ireland Brittian bailed out in 2008.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/02/17 21:20:50]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Free scotland from all this shite

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We voted yes the first time, and not sure about Mr but I would voted yes again

Christ even my mum who's English (but has been up here longer than I've been around) voted yes and can't understand how someone in England can possibly decide whats best for us up here.

Just cos something works for one, doesn't mean it works for everyone

And I'm under no illusion as to how hard it would be to start of with, but I'm thinking of the better future for my grandweans (thinking it probably won't affect my weans too much) x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It seems the majority of scots are happy with the way snp are running the country or they wouldnt be in power, i know a lot of unionists dont like this but i can only see support for snp getting stronger and independence is only a matter of time ,oh and after independence we should become a republic and get rid of the royals too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So indyref2 and if it's a YES, take power away from Westminster and give it to Brussels ??? How is that taking charge of our own Country ??????

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow


"It seems the majority of scots are happy with the way snp are running the country or they wouldnt be in power, i know a lot of unionists dont like this but i can only see support for snp getting stronger and independence is only a matter of time ,oh and after independence we should become a republic and get rid of the royals too "

Tha majority? I think you'll find they took under 50% of the votes at the last election. Just around double what the Tories got which is pretty surprising for some.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think every country should fight passionately for its Independence and its individuality but recognise that we are all dependent on each other. No country is an island (I paraphrase there and sadly Scotland is not an island). What continually disappoints me in politics is the seeming priority of politics of oneupmanship, power play, money etc etc... who cares who caused this or that... work together to implement good ideas that benefit society no matter who came up with them... I know, I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one (Imagine eh???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""Brexit is an epic economic and social disaster"

....so let's have Scottish independence

Got it on one, mate. Excellent. "

If I recall;

Scotland voted to remain in UK, part of Britain

UK voted to leave EU

what part do you not understand?

Get used to it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"An independent Scotland won't be part of the eu anyway and with France on the verge of leaving who would want to be.

The snp are signing their own death warrant imo. 1/3 of their members voted to leave the eu so it is likely to cause massive division within the party.

Once in a lifetime "

I was one of the 1/3

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

[Removed by poster at 18/02/17 09:19:11]

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"An independent Scotland won't be part of the eu anyway and with France on the verge of leaving who would want to be.

The snp are signing their own death warrant imo. 1/3 of their members voted to leave the eu so it is likely to cause massive division within the party.

Once in a lifetime

I was one of the 1/3"

Anyone who voted leave and is a SNP voter/member has basically been completely shunned by their party, it's as though they don't exist. Of course they'll still be looking for their votes come the next election.

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling

Said it before their a party of protest with one soloution for everything independence. Everything's westminsters fault. I certainly didn't vote for the SNP. However I respect that democratic decision. How about they respect the majority that voted to remain in the United Kingdom.

As I've said how about not dividing a nation but galvanise it and get our own house in order. ie education, health and the farce that's police Scotland.

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By *earded villainMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

can i just point out a few things .

independance and the yes campaign was not exclusive to the snp . it was never and should never have been about party politics.

as for banging the drum on i dependance well tbe clues kinda in the name .

i may also point out that in their recent election manifesto it was clearly stated that should scotland be removed from the eu against the wishes of its electorate then they would seek a further independance referendum . they won that election fairly comfortably . should they now ignore their own manifesto that got them elected ?

im no snp fan boy and would love to see them face some strong opposition . labour is a shambles and the tories well lets not go there with their right wing politics .

independance to me will never be about sturgeon or salmond but simply about the right to self determination . folk hate the snp and want them out ? gain independance and the snp will splinter into various factions . hopefully a strong socialist party can be formed and some real opposition will come out it all .

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"can i just point out a few things .

independance and the yes campaign was not exclusive to the snp . it was never and should never have been about party politics.

as for banging the drum on i dependance well tbe clues kinda in the name .

i may also point out that in their recent election manifesto it was clearly stated that should scotland be removed from the eu against the wishes of its electorate then they would seek a further independance referendum . they won that election fairly comfortably . should they now ignore their own manifesto that got them elected ?

im no snp fan boy and would love to see them face some strong opposition . labour is a shambles and the tories well lets not go there with their right wing politics .

independance to me will never be about sturgeon or salmond but simply about the right to self determination . folk hate the snp and want them out ? gain independance and the snp will splinter into various factions . hopefully a strong socialist party can be formed and some real opposition will come out it all . "

The problem is though with the SNP being so controlling they will be the ones running any indy campaign and setting out the post indy vision. If you look at sites like CommonWeal you'll see complaints about just how little say they will allow other groups who don't follow their line. Ultimately any referendum (and I'm not sure there will be one) will be fought on the SNP's vision of an independent Scotland. The other problem with that is that their white paper from the last campaign has been shown to be an utter fantasy (more sensible types within the SNP realise this and are now calling the white paper 'aspirational' rather than a true picture of post indy Scotland)

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling


"can i just point out a few things .

independance and the yes campaign was not exclusive to the snp . it was never and should never have been about party politics.

as for banging the drum on i dependance well tbe clues kinda in the name .

i may also point out that in their recent election manifesto it was clearly stated that should scotland be removed from the eu against the wishes of its electorate then they would seek a further independance referendum . they won that election fairly comfortably . should they now ignore their own manifesto that got them elected ?

im no snp fan boy and would love to see them face some strong opposition . labour is a shambles and the tories well lets not go there with their right wing politics .

independance to me will never be about sturgeon or salmond but simply about the right to self determination . folk hate the snp and want them out ? gain independance and the snp will splinter into various factions . hopefully a strong socialist party can be formed and some real opposition will come out it all .

The problem is though with the SNP being so controlling they will be the ones running any indy campaign and setting out the post indy vision. If you look at sites like CommonWeal you'll see complaints about just how little say they will allow other groups who don't follow their line. Ultimately any referendum (and I'm not sure there will be one) will be fought on the SNP's vision of an independent Scotland. The other problem with that is that their white paper from the last campaign has been shown to be an utter fantasy (more sensible types within the SNP realise this and are now calling the white paper 'aspirational' rather than a true picture of post indy Scotland)"

Agree whole heartedly with that, they can't even acknowledge any flaws with their last attemp.

And if you point any out your anti Scottish etc etc.

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow


"So indyref2 and if it's a YES, take power away from Westminster and give it to Brussels ??? How is that taking charge of our own Country ??????"

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow


"Exactly, if it wasn't for Westminster right now UK oil and Gas in the North Sea would be in a worse state than it is now. But don't worry the SNP have spent £27million on cardboard boxes for babies which will solve everything.

I think their research into these boxes failed to highlight that they only work when coupled with excellent midwifery and health visitors. Ask any health visitor and midwife you want in Scotland and they will tell you exactly where that £27million would have been better spent.

The baby box expenditure could be a scandal in the making. This link explains all

https://graeme-from-it.tumblr.com/post/157189417936/boxofdelights"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It seems the majority of scots are happy with the way snp are running the country or they wouldnt be in power, i know a lot of unionists dont like this but i can only see support for snp getting stronger and independence is only a matter of time ,oh and after independence we should become a republic and get rid of the royals too "

Getting rid if the royals would free up a lot of money. Bring back clan socity. A clan system of rulership would run far better.lol

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire


"It seems the majority of scots are happy with the way snp are running the country or they wouldnt be in power, i know a lot of unionists dont like this but i can only see support for snp getting stronger and independence is only a matter of time ,oh and after independence we should become a republic and get rid of the royals too

Getting rid if the royals would free up a lot of money. Bring back clan socity. A clan system of rulership would run far better.lol"

And here it lies...'The Republic of Scotland'...the hidden agenda.

On the first issue, ,If you take the time to check how much in monetary terms 'The Royals' as you state bring into this country in revenue on Tourism alone you'd see that it greatly outweighs what they are allocated.

What is it about the tartan republicans that you don't seem to get into you heads. You had a democratic vote, note the word democratic, for Independence or Remain...and in case you forgot...YOU LOST.... live with it. ACCEPT IT and get on with it. But no...not the SNP and republican hardliners, their stance is ..'we want another vote on the issue' So there's the democratic SNP mentality way of thinking..."Its our ball and we aren't playing mentality"

The United Kingdom had a collective vote on the European Union... the democratic vote, IRRESPECTIVE OF YOUR OWN VIEWS, of the collective voice of the people of the UK was TO LEAVE...but in case you have forgot, let me remind you, your still part of the United Kingdom and I'll say once again, the voice of the UK was to leave....So we're leaving....ACCEPT IT...

And this is the crux of the matter...even if Scotland was to gain its independence,Scotland wouldn't be allowed automatic entry into the E.U.

Scotland would also have to take with it its very large proportion of the UK national debt and in case you forgot, our saviour, in what the SNP spout on before the 1st Indy Ref as our road to glory, has went belly and oil production and revenue....is rock bottom.

So in conclusion...everything above is all about the peoples democratic vote so live with it, accept it and deal with and stop moaning and get rid of the 'its our ball' mentality.

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By *earded villainMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

if people just accept everything hiw the hell do things change ?

slavery , shut the fuck up and accept it . womans right to vote . fuck no , shut up and accept it !!

what a sorry fucking world we would live in if people just accepted everything and nothing changed.

maybe some people are happy to be bent over and fucked by the eton elite and know their place as a servant to those that control the game . thankfully im not one of them

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"if people just accept everything hiw the hell do things change ?

slavery , shut the fuck up and accept it . womans right to vote . fuck no , shut up and accept it !!

what a sorry fucking world we would live in if people just accepted everything and nothing changed.

maybe some people are happy to be bent over and fucked by the eton elite and know their place as a servant to those that control the game . thankfully im not one of them "

Change for changes sake is pointless unless it can be shown to be a positive. Our parliament has the powers to change many things but refuses to do so, they're afraid to take bold steps in case it means they lose any of the broad coalition of support they have. It's time for the Scottish Govt to start to use the powers they have and do some good with them.

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By *earded villainMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

to me having the right to self determination . to be in full control of our own affairs is not just a change for change sake .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"can i just point out a few things .

independance and the yes campaign was not exclusive to the snp . it was never and should never have been about party politics.

as for banging the drum on i dependance well tbe clues kinda in the name .

i may also point out that in their recent election manifesto it was clearly stated that should scotland be removed from the eu against the wishes of its electorate then they would seek a further independance referendum . they won that election fairly comfortably . should they now ignore their own manifesto that got them elected ?

im no snp fan boy and would love to see them face some strong opposition . labour is a shambles and the tories well lets not go there with their right wing politics .

independance to me will never be about sturgeon or salmond but simply about the right to self determination . folk hate the snp and want them out ? gain independance and the snp will splinter into various factions . hopefully a strong socialist party can be formed and some real opposition will come out it all . "

The true fact is;

There is no opposition against the snp

Kezia Dugdale along with the previous Jim Murphy have together killed off Scottish Labour.

.

Ruth Davidson, is closest to an opposition but it simply wont happen

.

Willie Rennie; just an embarrassment along with the traitor Danny Alexander

.

Patrick Harvie & the greens back the SNP with open & behind doors deals

.

You better get used to a long line of SNP rule, for better or worse

(worse for me; im a shooter).

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"if people just accept everything hiw the hell do things change ?

slavery , shut the fuck up and accept it . womans right to vote . fuck no , shut up and accept it !!

what a sorry fucking world we would live in if people just accepted everything and nothing changed.

maybe some people are happy to be bent over and fucked by the eton elite and know their place as a servant to those that control the game . thankfully im not one of them

Change for changes sake is pointless unless it can be shown to be a positive. Our parliament has the powers to change many things but refuses to do so, they're afraid to take bold steps in case it means they lose any of the broad coalition of support they have. It's time for the Scottish Govt to start to use the powers they have and do some good with them."

They've failed to use most of the powers they were shouting for. It's also telling that they're making sure the transfer of welfare powers is taking a long time and that's for a very good reason, i.e. it suits them to blame 'Westminster' for benefit levels but having responsibility for them themselves and the difficult decisions that come with them is something they're in no rush to take on. The White paper claimed an indy Scottish state could be set up within 18 months and yet now the SNP are claiming it'll take over 3 years for the process of transferring some benefits to them and over 5 years for others. They prefer protesting to governing.

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By *earded villainMan
over a year ago

edinburgh


"can i just point out a few things .

independance and the yes campaign was not exclusive to the snp . it was never and should never have been about party politics.

as for banging the drum on i dependance well tbe clues kinda in the name .

i may also point out that in their recent election manifesto it was clearly stated that should scotland be removed from the eu against the wishes of its electorate then they would seek a further independance referendum . they won that election fairly comfortably . should they now ignore their own manifesto that got them elected ?

im no snp fan boy and would love to see them face some strong opposition . labour is a shambles and the tories well lets not go there with their right wing politics .

independance to me will never be about sturgeon or salmond but simply about the right to self determination . folk hate the snp and want them out ? gain independance and the snp will splinter into various factions . hopefully a strong socialist party can be formed and some real opposition will come out it all .

The true fact is;

There is no opposition against the snp

Kezia Dugdale along with the previous Jim Murphy have together killed off Scottish Labour.

.

Ruth Davidson, is closest to an opposition but it simply wont happen

.

Willie Rennie; just an embarrassment along with the traitor Danny Alexander

.

Patrick Harvie & the greens back the SNP with open & behind doors deals

.

You better get used to a long line of SNP rule, for better or worse

(worse for me; im a shooter)."

then surely a way forward is by gaining independance ?

the snp in its current guise would cease to exist. scottish labour no longer lickspittles to their english paymasters . the chance for some real party politics with whats best for scotland and its people at the forefront of everyones agenda !

we have the oil issue rammed down our throats regular . but we ignore that everything the no campaign promised has been nothing more than wind and pish . mind the only way to remain in the eu was vote no . hows that worked out ?

bullshit and bluster and people so blinded by the hatred for the snp tbey are happy to swallow whatever shit westminster throws at them . baffles fuck out me .

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By *r Costa xxMan
over a year ago

stirling

We've 'just realised' that the decision to nationalise the emergency services has cost them £35m, any more bright ideas from SNP?

I am very proud to be Scottish first and foremost, but strength in numbers does work, we should remain part of the uk, but brexit is a feckin disaster granted!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Scottish Nazi Party failed you then and are failing you just as badly now hope your not wanting on a operation as 10,500 operations were cancelled last year works out at 200 a week.

Saying that I'm either stuck on the motorway theses days that's being paid up on the never never or waitng on a delayed train thanks to the governments private tenders.

shall we carry on pretending this is a wonderful place to be was gonna bring up the way schools have been privately funded for and poorly built at exaggerated prices but seriously don't want to damage my chances of a ride on here as it's hard enough being a singleton on fab freeeeeeedom

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *earded villainMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

thatll be the schools built under labours control yeah ?

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"

we have the oil issue rammed down our throats regular . but we ignore that everything the no campaign promised has been nothing more than wind and pish . mind the only way to remain in the eu was vote no . hows that worked out ?

bullshit and bluster and people so blinded by the hatred for the snp tbey are happy to swallow whatever shit westminster throws at them . baffles fuck out me . "

Everything the no campaign promised was wind and pish?. If you want to list these promises we can go through them (ideally real promises as I see so many supposed vague broken promises that are actually made up). I can also do the same for the promises made by the Yes side.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *r Costa xxMan
over a year ago

stirling

This is going well

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *eenonfun2Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow


"It seems the majority of scots are happy with the way snp are running the country or they wouldnt be in power, i know a lot of unionists dont like this but i can only see support for snp getting stronger and independence is only a matter of time ,oh and after independence we should become a republic and get rid of the royals too

Getting rid if the royals would free up a lot of money. Bring back clan socity. A clan system of rulership would run far better.lol

And here it lies...'The Republic of Scotland'...the hidden agenda.

On the first issue, ,If you take the time to check how much in monetary terms 'The Royals' as you state bring into this country in revenue on Tourism alone you'd see that it greatly outweighs what they are allocated.

What is it about the tartan republicans that you don't seem to get into you heads. You had a democratic vote, note the word democratic, for Independence or Remain...and in case you forgot...YOU LOST.... live with it. ACCEPT IT and get on with it. But no...not the SNP and republican hardliners, their stance is ..'we want another vote on the issue' So there's the democratic SNP mentality way of thinking..."Its our ball and we aren't playing mentality"

The United Kingdom had a collective vote on the European Union... the democratic vote, IRRESPECTIVE OF YOUR OWN VIEWS, of the collective voice of the people of the UK was TO LEAVE...but in case you have forgot, let me remind you, your still part of the United Kingdom and I'll say once again, the voice of the UK was to leave....So we're leaving....ACCEPT IT...

And this is the crux of the matter...even if Scotland was to gain its independence,Scotland wouldn't be allowed automatic entry into the E.U.

Scotland would also have to take with it its very large proportion of the UK national debt and in case you forgot, our saviour, in what the SNP spout on before the 1st Indy Ref as our road to glory, has went belly and oil production and revenue....is rock bottom.

So in conclusion...everything above is all about the peoples democratic vote so live with it, accept it and deal with and stop moaning and get rid of the 'its our ball' mentality."

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"We've 'just realised' that the decision to nationalise the emergency services has cost them £35m, any more bright ideas from SNP?

I am very proud to be Scottish first and foremost, but strength in numbers does work, we should remain part of the uk, but brexit is a feckin disaster granted!"

A Freedom of Information request shows the SNP knew they would have to pay this VAT charge if they combined the Police etc but they went on with it regardless and then decided to act as though they knew nothing about it and blame Westminster.

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By *r Costa xxMan
over a year ago

stirling


"We've 'just realised' that the decision to nationalise the emergency services has cost them £35m, any more bright ideas from SNP?

I am very proud to be Scottish first and foremost, but strength in numbers does work, we should remain part of the uk, but brexit is a feckin disaster granted!

A Freedom of Information request shows the SNP knew they would have to pay this VAT charge if they combined the Police etc but they went on with it regardless and then decided to act as though they knew nothing about it and blame Westminster."

Exactly my point, very trustworthy, lets give them more power, err not

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Scottish Nazi Party failed you then and are failing you just as badly now hope your not wanting on a operation as 10,500 operations were cancelled last year works out at 200 a week.

Saying that I'm either stuck on the motorway theses days that's being paid up on the never never or waitng on a delayed train thanks to the governments private tenders.

shall we carry on pretending this is a wonderful place to be was gonna bring up the way schools have been privately funded for and poorly built at exaggerated prices but seriously don't want to damage my chances of a ride on here as it's hard enough being a singleton on fab freeeeeeedom "

Oh dear.

Cancelled operations because of staffing issues in NHS Scotland running at less than 2.5% in Dec 16. But don't let that ruin your contextless factoid.

Poorly built schools built under PFI brought in by Labour - years before SNP took power. But don't let that ruin you poor researched gripe.

Scotrail outperforms other rail operators in the UK. But again...

Nazi party? Oh dear. You can talk to folk about irrational fears you know.

Anyway, Indy isn't about saying Scotland is great, it's about saying it ISN'T and we could be better.

That's the question: What sort of country do you want to live in?

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

Let's look at the words of Alex Bell who was Salmond's head of policy and worked on the independence White Paper. These words are from last year:

"The idea that you could have a Scotland with high public spending, low taxes, a stable economy and reasonable government debt was wishful a year ago – now it is deluded"

"That model, as expressed in the White Paper and numerous speeches, is that it was possible to move from the UK to an independent Scotland and keep services at the same level, without either borrowing a lot more or raising taxes. It isn’t.”

"The interests of the SNP and the interests of independence have diverged. Independence needs facts and planning. The leadership fear those facts will rip the party apart. The SNP is growing comfortable in its role as the ‘Scotland’ party within a lop-sided UK, while pretending it is still fighting for independence to keep the party together.

We are told the people are in charge, but the Government goes out of its way to deny the people information. This isn’t about Scotland, its about the SNP. The electorate aren’t stupid. They tolerate this contradiction for want of an alternative. Lets pray that alternative turns up before independence does.

This is a morally dubious form of government. Posing as the defender of the poor against Tories when you have no credible alternative and don’t bother to research one is arguably immoral. More so when there is an explicit party policy not to reverse all cuts upon independence. The SNP’s ill-prepared version of independence does not plausibly offer any real alternative."

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

Actually reading more of Alex Bell's words and he lays bare the deceit and lies of the SNP and their vision of independence. Again the words below are all his:

"Three dates mark the moment when the high times turned down for ever. Lets start with 9 February.

On this day, at Holyrood’s Finance Committee, Scottish National Party members voted down the proposal for a Scottish Fiscal Commission.

This incredible decision – actively resisting discovering more about Scotland – was barely noticed at the time, but is very important.

For twenty years the SNP included in its manifestos the need for an independent economic unit.

When the chance to have one came, the party blocked it.

The reason is simply because such a unit would have produced economic data that contradicted the macho armoury of out-dated information on which the movement’s bully boys still thrive.

Instead of nation-building, the independence party was using its majority to keep Scots in the dark."

"The next important date is 25th February when the ‘fiscal framework’ was agreed. The Scottish Government had cleverly run negotiations for this into the period when the UK government was more concerned about the EU referendum. Downing Street did a quick settlement massively in Scotland’s favour to clear the desks for its euro battle.

In effect, the UK Treasury is underwriting Scotland’s foray into tax collecting. If Holyrood gets it wrong, then London will cover the losses. It’s very good for Scots – not only responsibility, but an insurance policy in the back pocket if it all goes belly up.

Yet the SNP seem unable to celebrate this coup, perhaps wary they might alert the indie faithful that the bigger game is up."

"The last date is March 9th, when the government announced their annual balance sheet – what is earned within Scotland’s borders and what is spent on services. There is a £15bn gap into the red.

Were Scotland about to become independent, Edinburgh would have to find a way of filling that gap, plus the costs of the independence process.

If Scotland were in a currency union with either Sterling or the Euro, there would be borrowing limits which would prevent the newly independent state simply borrowing £15bn.

For sake of argument let’s say borrowing (which will bring its own costs) cuts the deficit in half to £7.5bn. That is still a very big hole in Scottish spending, well beyond what reasonable tax increases could raise."

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire


"Let's look at the words of Alex Bell who was Salmond's head of policy and worked on the independence White Paper. These words are from last year:

"The idea that you could have a Scotland with high public spending, low taxes, a stable economy and reasonable government debt was wishful a year ago – now it is deluded"

"That model, as expressed in the White Paper and numerous speeches, is that it was possible to move from the UK to an independent Scotland and keep services at the same level, without either borrowing a lot more or raising taxes. It isn’t.”

"The interests of the SNP and the interests of independence have diverged. Independence needs facts and planning. The leadership fear those facts will rip the party apart. The SNP is growing comfortable in its role as the ‘Scotland’ party within a lop-sided UK, while pretending it is still fighting for independence to keep the party together.

We are told the people are in charge, but the Government goes out of its way to deny the people information. This isn’t about Scotland, its about the SNP. The electorate aren’t stupid. They tolerate this contradiction for want of an alternative. Lets pray that alternative turns up before independence does.

This is a morally dubious form of government. Posing as the defender of the poor against Tories when you have no credible alternative and don’t bother to research one is arguably immoral. More so when there is an explicit party policy not to reverse all cuts upon independence. The SNP’s ill-prepared version of independence does not plausibly offer any real alternative.""

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire


"Scottish Nazi Party failed you then and are failing you just as badly now hope your not wanting on a operation as 10,500 operations were cancelled last year works out at 200 a week.

Saying that I'm either stuck on the motorway theses days that's being paid up on the never never or waitng on a delayed train thanks to the governments private tenders.

shall we carry on pretending this is a wonderful place to be was gonna bring up the way schools have been privately funded for and poorly built at exaggerated prices but seriously don't want to damage my chances of a ride on here as it's hard enough being a singleton on fab freeeeeeedom

Oh dear.

Cancelled operations because of staffing issues in NHS Scotland running at less than 2.5% in Dec 16. But don't let that ruin your contextless factoid.

Poorly built schools built under PFI brought in by Labour - years before SNP took power. But don't let that ruin you poor researched gripe.

Scotrail outperforms other rail operators in the UK. But again...

Nazi party? Oh dear. You can talk to folk about irrational fears you know.

Anyway, Indy isn't about saying Scotland is great, it's about saying it ISN'T and we could be better.

That's the question: What sort of country do you want to live in?

"

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz yeah yeah...same old, same old...YOU AINT GETTING INDY2...

You have one of 2 options....accept it...or...go to somewhere were its a Republic..simple as that

p.s take your ball with you, it isn't needed in this country

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Scottish Nazi Party failed you then and are failing you just as badly now hope your not wanting on a operation as 10,500 operations were cancelled last year works out at 200 a week.

Saying that I'm either stuck on the motorway theses days that's being paid up on the never never or waitng on a delayed train thanks to the governments private tenders.

shall we carry on pretending this is a wonderful place to be was gonna bring up the way schools have been privately funded for and poorly built at exaggerated prices but seriously don't want to damage my chances of a ride on here as it's hard enough being a singleton on fab freeeeeeedom

Oh dear.

Cancelled operations because of staffing issues in NHS Scotland running at less than 2.5% in Dec 16. But don't let that ruin your contextless factoid.

Poorly built schools built under PFI brought in by Labour - years before SNP took power. But don't let that ruin you poor researched gripe.

Scotrail outperforms other rail operators in the UK. But again...

Nazi party? Oh dear. You can talk to folk about irrational fears you know.

Anyway, Indy isn't about saying Scotland is great, it's about saying it ISN'T and we could be better.

That's the question: What sort of country do you want to live in?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz yeah yeah...same old, same old...YOU AINT GETTING INDY2...

You have one of 2 options....accept it...or...go to somewhere were its a Republic..simple as that

p.s take your ball with you, it isn't needed in this country "

A valuable contribution.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Argue all you want but the Scottish population voted and said No .

you want a better life then leave you wife and stop sneaking about behind her back kidding yourself on and address you own issues first

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or....If you can't debate in an intelligent adult fashion throw in a personal insult to punctuate your point!!

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire


"Scottish Nazi Party failed you then and are failing you just as badly now hope your not wanting on a operation as 10,500 operations were cancelled last year works out at 200 a week.

Saying that I'm either stuck on the motorway theses days that's being paid up on the never never or waitng on a delayed train thanks to the governments private tenders.

shall we carry on pretending this is a wonderful place to be was gonna bring up the way schools have been privately funded for and poorly built at exaggerated prices but seriously don't want to damage my chances of a ride on here as it's hard enough being a singleton on fab freeeeeeedom

Oh dear.

Cancelled operations because of staffing issues in NHS Scotland running at less than 2.5% in Dec 16. But don't let that ruin your contextless factoid.

Poorly built schools built under PFI brought in by Labour - years before SNP took power. But don't let that ruin you poor researched gripe.

Scotrail outperforms other rail operators in the UK. But again...

Nazi party? Oh dear. You can talk to folk about irrational fears you know.

Anyway, Indy isn't about saying Scotland is great, it's about saying it ISN'T and we could be better.

That's the question: What sort of country do you want to live in?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz yeah yeah...same old, same old...YOU AINT GETTING INDY2...

You have one of 2 options....accept it...or...go to somewhere were its a Republic..simple as that

p.s take your ball with you, it isn't needed in this country

A valuable contribution.

"

If you look above in the threads you'll see I've already added a valuable contribution as you put it...but hey ho....

that contribution doesn't suit you, that contribution does meet with your approval or acceptance,

that contribution isn't what you want to hear...

Do you now see where I'm coming from when I refer to 'its my ball and you ain't playing'

But hey ho, if you keep spouting you own rhetoric I'm sure you'll get Indy Ref 2 ...IN YOUR NEXT LIFE

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It seems the majority of scots are happy with the way snp are running the country or they wouldnt be in power, i know a lot of unionists dont like this but i can only see support for snp getting stronger and independence is only a matter of time ,oh and after independence we should become a republic and get rid of the royals too

Getting rid if the royals would free up a lot of money. Bring back clan socity. A clan system of rulership would run far better.lol

And here it lies...'The Republic of Scotland'...the hidden agenda.

On the first issue, ,If you take the time to check how much in monetary terms 'The Royals' as you state bring into this country in revenue on Tourism alone you'd see that it greatly outweighs what they are allocated.

What is it about the tartan republicans that you don't seem to get into you heads. You had a democratic vote, note the word democratic, for Independence or Remain...and in case you forgot...YOU LOST.... live with it. ACCEPT IT and get on with it. But no...not the SNP and republican hardliners, their stance is ..'we want another vote on the issue' So there's the democratic SNP mentality way of thinking..."Its our ball and we aren't playing mentality"

The United Kingdom had a collective vote on the European Union... the democratic vote, IRRESPECTIVE OF YOUR OWN VIEWS, of the collective voice of the people of the UK was TO LEAVE...but in case you have forgot, let me remind you, your still part of the United Kingdom and I'll say once again, the voice of the UK was to leave....So we're leaving....ACCEPT IT...

And this is the crux of the matter...even if Scotland was to gain its independence,Scotland wouldn't be allowed automatic entry into the E.U.

Scotland would also have to take with it its very large proportion of the UK national debt and in case you forgot, our saviour, in what the SNP spout on before the 1st Indy Ref as our road to glory, has went belly and oil production and revenue....is rock bottom.

So in conclusion...everything above is all about the peoples democratic vote so live with it, accept it and deal with and stop moaning and get rid of the 'its our ball' mentality."

Can you tell me how much the royals have brought to scotland through tourism? and i did accept the independence result at the time but times have changed and if the snp want another one then they will have it and theres not much unionists like yourself can do about it

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling

Could argue that the Royals bring in money to the British economy. Being part of Britain has helped us with regards to our financial deficit which stands around the £14 billion or gdp of around 9%

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's just a completely outrageous thing to say about the royals as the amount of tourists that head to balmoral is off the scale , we get thousands of visitors per year from North America , Europe , Japan and Australia that use both Glasgow Airport and Edinburgh supporting jobs in both areas and come to visit endnbro because the royal family liked holidaying in Scotland during the Victorian era that's one of the reasons they actually want to visit Scotland yeah lets all keep it dignified on here

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire


"It seems the majority of scots are happy with the way snp are running the country or they wouldnt be in power, i know a lot of unionists dont like this but i can only see support for snp getting stronger and independence is only a matter of time ,oh and after independence we should become a republic and get rid of the royals too

Getting rid if the royals would free up a lot of money. Bring back clan socity. A clan system of rulership would run far better.lol

And here it lies...'The Republic of Scotland'...the hidden agenda.

On the first issue, ,If you take the time to check how much in monetary terms 'The Royals' as you state bring into this country in revenue on Tourism alone you'd see that it greatly outweighs what they are allocated.

What is it about the tartan republicans that you don't seem to get into you heads. You had a democratic vote, note the word democratic, for Independence or Remain...and in case you forgot...YOU LOST.... live with it. ACCEPT IT and get on with it. But no...not the SNP and republican hardliners, their stance is ..'we want another vote on the issue' So there's the democratic SNP mentality way of thinking..."Its our ball and we aren't playing mentality"

The United Kingdom had a collective vote on the European Union... the democratic vote, IRRESPECTIVE OF YOUR OWN VIEWS, of the collective voice of the people of the UK was TO LEAVE...but in case you have forgot, let me remind you, your still part of the United Kingdom and I'll say once again, the voice of the UK was to leave....So we're leaving....ACCEPT IT...

And this is the crux of the matter...even if Scotland was to gain its independence,Scotland wouldn't be allowed automatic entry into the E.U.

Scotland would also have to take with it its very large proportion of the UK national debt and in case you forgot, our saviour, in what the SNP spout on before the 1st Indy Ref as our road to glory, has went belly and oil production and revenue....is rock bottom.

So in conclusion...everything above is all about the peoples democratic vote so live with it, accept it and deal with and stop moaning and get rid of the 'its our ball' mentality.

Can you tell me how much the royals have brought to scotland through tourism? and i did accept the independence result at the time but times have changed and if the snp want another one then they will have it and theres not much unionists like yourself can do about it "

See that's where your struggling on grasping things...Myself and the other 54% of people within Scotland who DONE something about it last time ,will DO so one again, just like we done the last time and boot it into touch.

So when it goes pear-shaped AGAIN,will it be INDY3 and then Indy 4 and so on until you get your way???

If the SNP want an another INDEPENDENCE vote, pray tell me why they haven't had one already... ?

I'll tell you why. Nicola and the her SNP playmates are playing games with the 46% . Nothing more than rattling sabres, shouting and demanding AND getting nowhere. But it looks good, it gives her a political platform to 'talk the talk but not walk the walk.

Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP know fine well...a vote for Indy2 has to go her way. No ifs,no buts,....However,she knows and fears getting it wrong as she done the last time, then herself and her SNP party will be finished and she well knows this fine well.

Reminds me of a toddler in a supermarket shouting and screaming that they want sweets and mum says no, so they stamp their feet and howler . To put this into SNP perspective, we want an INDY2

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire

In the first major foreign policy address for the Trump administration, Mr Pence said the US would "stand with Europe today and every day".

But he told the gathered leaders that European countries were "failing to pay their fair share" on defence.

That failure "erodes the foundation of our alliance", he said.

The vice-president pointed out that apart from the US, only four Nato countries had met a 2014 commitment to spend 2% of GDP on defence.

"The time has come to do more," he said.

Don't you worry Mr Pence, when Scotland get our independence we have two boats up in Hognanfield Loch we'll convert. That put the shitters up them Ruskies

We also have the Duke of Argyll's personal highland army who can carry out peace keeping duties throughout the world, well on their day off anyway.

Cant say we guys in the Republic of Scotland don't pay or way.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It seems the majority of scots are happy with the way snp are running the country or they wouldnt be in power, i know a lot of unionists dont like this but i can only see support for snp getting stronger and independence is only a matter of time ,oh and after independence we should become a republic and get rid of the royals too

Getting rid if the royals would free up a lot of money. Bring back clan socity. A clan system of rulership would run far better.lol

And here it lies...'The Republic of Scotland'...the hidden agenda.

On the first issue, ,If you take the time to check how much in monetary terms 'The Royals' as you state bring into this country in revenue on Tourism alone you'd see that it greatly outweighs what they are allocated.

What is it about the tartan republicans that you don't seem to get into you heads. You had a democratic vote, note the word democratic, for Independence or Remain...and in case you forgot...YOU LOST.... live with it. ACCEPT IT and get on with it. But no...not the SNP and republican hardliners, their stance is ..'we want another vote on the issue' So there's the democratic SNP mentality way of thinking..."Its our ball and we aren't playing mentality"

The United Kingdom had a collective vote on the European Union... the democratic vote, IRRESPECTIVE OF YOUR OWN VIEWS, of the collective voice of the people of the UK was TO LEAVE...but in case you have forgot, let me remind you, your still part of the United Kingdom and I'll say once again, the voice of the UK was to leave....So we're leaving....ACCEPT IT...

And this is the crux of the matter...even if Scotland was to gain its independence,Scotland wouldn't be allowed automatic entry into the E.U.

Scotland would also have to take with it its very large proportion of the UK national debt and in case you forgot, our saviour, in what the SNP spout on before the 1st Indy Ref as our road to glory, has went belly and oil production and revenue....is rock bottom.

So in conclusion...everything above is all about the peoples democratic vote so live with it, accept it and deal with and stop moaning and get rid of the 'its our ball' mentality.

Can you tell me how much the royals have brought to scotland through tourism? and i did accept the independence result at the time but times have changed and if the snp want another one then they will have it and theres not much unionists like yourself can do about it

See that's where your struggling on grasping things...Myself and the other 54% of people within Scotland who DONE something about it last time ,will DO so one again, just like we done the last time and boot it into touch.

So when it goes pear-shaped AGAIN,will it be INDY3 and then Indy 4 and so on until you get your way???

If the SNP want an another INDEPENDENCE vote, pray tell me why they haven't had one already... ?

I'll tell you why. Nicola and the her SNP playmates are playing games with the 46% . Nothing more than rattling sabres, shouting and demanding AND getting nowhere. But it looks good, it gives her a political platform to 'talk the talk but not walk the walk.

Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP know fine well...a vote for Indy2 has to go her way. No ifs,no buts,....However,she knows and fears getting it wrong as she done the last time, then herself and her SNP party will be finished and she well knows this fine well.

Reminds me of a toddler in a supermarket shouting and screaming that they want sweets and mum says no, so they stamp their feet and howler . To put this into SNP perspective, we want an INDY2

"

You seem to think everyone who voted no will vote the same im not so sure they will as i know lots of ppl who voted no but would vote yes now ,the reason indy2 has not been called is they are waiting to see what sort of deal brexit brings and then a decision will be made ,and you never did answer how much the money the royals bring to scotland ?

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling


"In the first major foreign policy address for the Trump administration, Mr Pence said the US would "stand with Europe today and every day".

But he told the gathered leaders that European countries were "failing to pay their fair share" on defence.

That failure "erodes the foundation of our alliance", he said.

The vice-president pointed out that apart from the US, only four Nato countries had met a 2014 commitment to spend 2% of GDP on defence.

"The time has come to do more," he said.

Don't you worry Mr Pence, when Scotland get our independence we have two boats up in Hognanfield Loch we'll convert. That put the shitters up them Ruskies

We also have the Duke of Argyll's personal highland army who can carry out peace keeping duties throughout the world, well on their day off anyway.

Cant say we guys in the Republic of Scotland don't pay or way. "

And we can send in para handy and sunny Jim with dougie if the Russians keep on sending their boats into our waters.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire


"In the first major foreign policy address for the Trump administration, Mr Pence said the US would "stand with Europe today and every day".

But he told the gathered leaders that European countries were "failing to pay their fair share" on defence.

Fook your showing your age lol lol

That failure "erodes the foundation of our alliance", he said.

The vice-president pointed out that apart from the US, only four Nato countries had met a 2014 commitment to spend 2% of GDP on defence.

"The time has come to do more," he said.

Don't you worry Mr Pence, when Scotland get our independence we have two boats up in Hognanfield Loch we'll convert. That put the shitters up them Ruskies

We also have the Duke of Argyll's personal highland army who can carry out peace keeping duties throughout the world, well on their day off anyway.

Cant say we guys in the Republic of Scotland don't pay or way.

And we can send in para handy and sunny Jim with dougie if the Russians keep on sending their boats into our waters. "

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Can you tell me how much the royals have brought to scotland through tourism? and i did accept the independence result at the time but times have changed and if the snp want another one then they will have it and theres not much unionists like yourself can do about it "

How much did the Royals bring to Scotland? If you look at the Scottish Government's own figure the UK has given us an additional £9 billion over and above our tax take. If you want to be independent solely to get rid of the Royal family then realise that would mean Scotland losing the equivalent of 3/4 of our NHS budget just to satisfy your irrational dislike of the monarchy.

So, how do you propose to replace this missing income? Do you have a plan to do it and if you do can you share it with us?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Anyone seen that BAE have axed major investment plans

I wonder how that promise of 13 frigates being build on the Clyde in 2014 is now looking

All the lies from 2014 is way out of control.

I fear for all those working there as this promise was supposed to secure jobs on the Clyde for the next 20 years now who knows. Fallon has alot of explaining to do no wonder when he was asked about the frigates he wouldnt answer and had to have his PR tell the interview to shh and no more questions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Can you tell me how much the royals have brought to scotland through tourism? and i did accept the independence result at the time but times have changed and if the snp want another one then they will have it and theres not much unionists like yourself can do about it

How much did the Royals bring to Scotland? If you look at the Scottish Government's own figure the UK has given us an additional £9 billion over and above our tax take. If you want to be independent solely to get rid of the Royal family then realise that would mean Scotland losing the equivalent of 3/4 of our NHS budget just to satisfy your irrational dislike of the monarchy.

So, how do you propose to replace this missing income? Do you have a plan to do it and if you do can you share it with us?"

Another one who cant answer my question of how much money the royals bring to scotland ,and its not so much a irrational dislike of them i just see them as benefit scroungers who bring nothing to scotland other than to get the unionists to bow to them

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Can you tell me how much the royals have brought to scotland through tourism? and i did accept the independence result at the time but times have changed and if the snp want another one then they will have it and theres not much unionists like yourself can do about it

How much did the Royals bring to Scotland? If you look at the Scottish Government's own figure the UK has given us an additional £9 billion over and above our tax take. If you want to be independent solely to get rid of the Royal family then realise that would mean Scotland losing the equivalent of 3/4 of our NHS budget just to satisfy your irrational dislike of the monarchy.

So, how do you propose to replace this missing income? Do you have a plan to do it and if you do can you share it with us?

Another one who cant answer my question of how much money the royals bring to scotland ,and its not so much a irrational dislike of them i just see them as benefit scroungers who bring nothing to scotland other than to get the unionists to bow to them "

The two options are

a) independent Scotland

b) UK government with the monarcy.

Option B brings an extra £9 billion to the Scottish economy. So I'll ask again, if you don't want option B how do you replace that?

Just to help you out, there is no option C, i.e. The UK government without the monarchy (still giving us £9 billion)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How exactly is Scotland going to bring it's GDP below 3% as required by the EU. Plus exactly how is Scotland getting its independence from the UK wanting to be independent but wanting to give over power to Brussels. Surely that's out of the fire into the frying pan and back into the fire again. Personally I think Scotland could not cope being so called independent for many reasons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Can you tell me how much the royals have brought to scotland through tourism? and i did accept the independence result at the time but times have changed and if the snp want another one then they will have it and theres not much unionists like yourself can do about it

How much did the Royals bring to Scotland? If you look at the Scottish Government's own figure the UK has given us an additional £9 billion over and above our tax take. If you want to be independent solely to get rid of the Royal family then realise that would mean Scotland losing the equivalent of 3/4 of our NHS budget just to satisfy your irrational dislike of the monarchy.

So, how do you propose to replace this missing income? Do you have a plan to do it and if you do can you share it with us?

Another one who cant answer my question of how much money the royals bring to scotland ,and its not so much a irrational dislike of them i just see them as benefit scroungers who bring nothing to scotland other than to get the unionists to bow to them

The two options are

a) independent Scotland

b) UK government with the monarcy.

Option B brings an extra £9 billion to the Scottish economy. So I'll ask again, if you don't want option B how do you replace that?

Just to help you out, there is no option C, i.e. The UK government without the monarchy (still giving us £9 billion)"

Il leave that to the polititians to sort out and still no answer as to how much they bring to scotland ,if you check above posts you will see _anarkshirelass said they contribute substantial amount to our economy thats why i ask how much but no answer

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"Anyone seen that BAE have axed major investment plans

I wonder how that promise of 13 frigates being build on the Clyde in 2014 is now looking

All the lies from 2014 is way out of control.

I fear for all those working there as this promise was supposed to secure jobs on the Clyde for the next 20 years now who knows. Fallon has alot of explaining to do no wonder when he was asked about the frigates he wouldnt answer and had to have his PR tell the interview to shh and no more questions. "

How many ships did the White Paper promise would be built on the Clyde?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Il leave that to the polititians to sort out and still no answer as to how much they bring to scotland ,if you check above posts you will see _anarkshirelass said they contribute substantial amount to our economy thats why i ask how much but no answer "

Crown Estates pay £285 million. The cost of the Royal family is £35.7 million (56 pence per person) so that means the CE brings in a net profit of £249 million (£3.80 per person). So your answer is it brings in £3.80 profit for every citizen in Scotland. This doesn't include the estimated £500m that tourism brings in.

That obviously answers your question.

(source was the Huffington Post)

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"Anyone seen that BAE have axed major investment plans

I wonder how that promise of 13 frigates being build on the Clyde in 2014 is now looking

All the lies from 2014 is way out of control.

I fear for all those working there as this promise was supposed to secure jobs on the Clyde for the next 20 years now who knows. Fallon has alot of explaining to do no wonder when he was asked about the frigates he wouldnt answer and had to have his PR tell the interview to shh and no more questions.

How many ships did the White Paper promise would be built on the Clyde?"

No no we are talking about the promise that the unionist parties made to Scotland. That promise in 2014 was 13 frigates to be build on the Clyde correct ?

Also the promise was supposed to secure jobs on the Clyde for the next 20 years.

The big point is this was a promise that the unionist parties made to Scotland correct and now we are seeing what they think of that promise. Like i said i fear for all those working there as they shouldnt have to lose work or their jobs just because the unionist parties lied to try and get a no vote

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

So how may ships were promised and how many are being built? You tell me.

And is it more or less than the White paper promised an indy Scotland would build?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Il leave that to the polititians to sort out and still no answer as to how much they bring to scotland ,if you check above posts you will see _anarkshirelass said they contribute substantial amount to our economy thats why i ask how much but no answer

Crown Estates pay £285 million. The cost of the Royal family is £35.7 million (56 pence per person) so that means the CE brings in a net profit of £249 million (£3.80 per person). So your answer is it brings in £3.80 profit for every citizen in Scotland. This doesn't include the estimated £500m that tourism brings in.

That obviously answers your question.

(source was the Huffington Post)"

Ffs even googles a unionist lol and does this money go to the scottish goverment ? Asking you as cant be arsed googling it ,£500million from tourism that just made me laugh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh can you hurry up and google it im going to bed soon

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"So how may ships were promised and how many are being built? You tell me.

And is it more or less than the White paper promised an indy Scotland would build?"

i find that worrying you dont know as i guessing you voted no.

The promise was 13 frigates would be build on the Clyde. This has nothing to do with the White paper this is all on the promise from the 3 unionist parties that promised 13 frigates and was supposed to secure jobs on the Clyde for the next 20 years.

Do you not believe that this promise of 13 frigates should be kept and delivered ? What about all those workers ?

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Ffs even googles a unionist lol and does this money go to the scottish goverment ? Asking you as cant be arsed googling it ,£500million from tourism that just made me laugh "

Google is a unionist? I'm assuming you've been drinking tonight given that reply so we'll leave it till you've sobered up tomorrow and discuss it again then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Ffs even googles a unionist lol and does this money go to the scottish goverment ? Asking you as cant be arsed googling it ,£500million from tourism that just made me laugh

Google is a unionist? I'm assuming you've been drinking tonight given that reply so we'll leave it till you've sobered up tomorrow and discuss it again then."

Stone cold sober here it was a bit of humour but obviosly your not the humorous type lol

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"So how may ships were promised and how many are being built? You tell me.

And is it more or less than the White paper promised an indy Scotland would build?

i find that worrying you dont know as i guessing you voted no.

The promise was 13 frigates would be build on the Clyde. This has nothing to do with the White paper this is all on the promise from the 3 unionist parties that promised 13 frigates and was supposed to secure jobs on the Clyde for the next 20 years.

Do you not believe that this promise of 13 frigates should be kept and delivered ? What about all those workers ?

"

I don't know what was promised, I only go with things I can research. Can you post a link that proves this promise? And also, can you give me some evidence that the shipyards would have had more orders if we were independent?

Here's some quotes I've found from the UK defence journal:

'GMB Scotland Secretary Gary Smith said:

“This report was commissioned following the delays to the type-26 programme and because of the long-term frustrations felt by our members across the sector after years of being used as a political football.

One job on the Upper Clyde alone supports an additional 1.18 jobs across Scotland so for the future of Scottish shipbuilding and our long-term economic prosperity it is imperative that the UK government makes good on the promised frigate programme.

Furthermore, and with a second independence referendum a real possibility, the Scottish government needs to demonstrate to our members how they would plan to sustain their jobs, wages, pensions, skills and local communities without MoD investment.

This report is a reality check and shows that the fragile Scottish economy cannot do without the thousands of jobs and hundreds of millions of pounds in wages supported by navy shipbuilding contracts.”

-----------------------------

"The full statement was made by then Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology Phillip Dunne in response to a question from Brendan O’Hara, MP for Argyll and Bute, regarding the Type 26 frigates.

“What I can confirm to the hon. Gentleman is that, had the independence vote gone the way that he and his colleagues would have liked, no warships would have been built on the Clyde, because the United Kingdom Government would not have chosen to build them there; we made that very clear.

As it is, as I have just confirmed to the House, we will be proceeding with the construction of eight complex Type 26 warships on the Clyde as and when the programme is ready.”

--------------------------

"David Cameron had told the House of Commons at the time of the Strategic Defence and Security Review:

“There will be eight of the Type 26s and at least another five of the new type of frigate, probably more, and they can be built in Scotland if the conditions are right.

The only way these ships wouldn’t be built in Scotland is if Scotland was independent and didn’t have the national resources of the Royal Navy.”

-----------------------

"It should be noted that the yards on the Clyde will now in fact build and work on 18 vessels of varying types, instead of the originally promised 13."

----------------------------------------

Ian King, chief executive of BAE, had indicated in a letter submitted to the Scottish Affairs Committee in 2014 that shipyards on the Clyde would likely have to close if Scotland voted for independence. The future of the yards at Govan and Scotstoun is directly tied into the Type 26 frigates and Mr King has said BAE would build the ships at a location compatible with the contract awarding process of the Ministry of Defence.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"So how may ships were promised and how many are being built? You tell me.

And is it more or less than the White paper promised an indy Scotland would build?

i find that worrying you dont know as i guessing you voted no.

The promise was 13 frigates would be build on the Clyde. This has nothing to do with the White paper this is all on the promise from the 3 unionist parties that promised 13 frigates and was supposed to secure jobs on the Clyde for the next 20 years.

Do you not believe that this promise of 13 frigates should be kept and delivered ? What about all those workers ?

I don't know what was promised, I only go with things I can research. Can you post a link that proves this promise? And also, can you give me some evidence that the shipyards would have had more orders if we were independent?

Here's some quotes I've found from the UK defence journal:

'GMB Scotland Secretary Gary Smith said:

“This report was commissioned following the delays to the type-26 programme and because of the long-term frustrations felt by our members across the sector after years of being used as a political football.

One job on the Upper Clyde alone supports an additional 1.18 jobs across Scotland so for the future of Scottish shipbuilding and our long-term economic prosperity it is imperative that the UK government makes good on the promised frigate programme.

Furthermore, and with a second independence referendum a real possibility, the Scottish government needs to demonstrate to our members how they would plan to sustain their jobs, wages, pensions, skills and local communities without MoD investment.

This report is a reality check and shows that the fragile Scottish economy cannot do without the thousands of jobs and hundreds of millions of pounds in wages supported by navy shipbuilding contracts.”

-----------------------------

"The full statement was made by then Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology Phillip Dunne in response to a question from Brendan O’Hara, MP for Argyll and Bute, regarding the Type 26 frigates.

“What I can confirm to the hon. Gentleman is that, had the independence vote gone the way that he and his colleagues would have liked, no warships would have been built on the Clyde, because the United Kingdom Government would not have chosen to build them there; we made that very clear.

As it is, as I have just confirmed to the House, we will be proceeding with the construction of eight complex Type 26 warships on the Clyde as and when the programme is ready.”

--------------------------

"David Cameron had told the House of Commons at the time of the Strategic Defence and Security Review:

“There will be eight of the Type 26s and at least another five of the new type of frigate, probably more, and they can be built in Scotland if the conditions are right.

The only way these ships wouldn’t be built in Scotland is if Scotland was independent and didn’t have the national resources of the Royal Navy.”

-----------------------

"It should be noted that the yards on the Clyde will now in fact build and work on 18 vessels of varying types, instead of the originally promised 13."

----------------------------------------

Ian King, chief executive of BAE, had indicated in a letter submitted to the Scottish Affairs Committee in 2014 that shipyards on the Clyde would likely have to close if Scotland voted for independence. The future of the yards at Govan and Scotstoun is directly tied into the Type 26 frigates and Mr King has said BAE would build the ships at a location compatible with the contract awarding process of the Ministry of Defence."

Ok you say you do your research then please go look up what Scottish Labour leaflets say as it clearly states ''Within the UK Govan and Scotstoun will get the order of 13 type 26 frigates from the royal navy. Now that is a promise from Better Together as Labour did joined in with the Tories and Lib Dems for form Better Together.

So do you believe that promise to build 13 should not be delivered as promised ?

We are not talking about independence take the yes and no side out of the question now. Am pointing out this was promise made to Scotland and those workers that they would have secure jobs on the Clyde for the next 20 years.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"So how may ships were promised and how many are being built? You tell me.

And is it more or less than the White paper promised an indy Scotland would build?

i find that worrying you dont know as i guessing you voted no.

The promise was 13 frigates would be build on the Clyde. This has nothing to do with the White paper this is all on the promise from the 3 unionist parties that promised 13 frigates and was supposed to secure jobs on the Clyde for the next 20 years.

Do you not believe that this promise of 13 frigates should be kept and delivered ? What about all those workers ?

I don't know what was promised, I only go with things I can research. Can you post a link that proves this promise? And also, can you give me some evidence that the shipyards would have had more orders if we were independent?

Here's some quotes I've found from the UK defence journal:

'GMB Scotland Secretary Gary Smith said:

“This report was commissioned following the delays to the type-26 programme and because of the long-term frustrations felt by our members across the sector after years of being used as a political football.

One job on the Upper Clyde alone supports an additional 1.18 jobs across Scotland so for the future of Scottish shipbuilding and our long-term economic prosperity it is imperative that the UK government makes good on the promised frigate programme.

Furthermore, and with a second independence referendum a real possibility, the Scottish government needs to demonstrate to our members how they would plan to sustain their jobs, wages, pensions, skills and local communities without MoD investment.

This report is a reality check and shows that the fragile Scottish economy cannot do without the thousands of jobs and hundreds of millions of pounds in wages supported by navy shipbuilding contracts.”

-----------------------------

"The full statement was made by then Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology Phillip Dunne in response to a question from Brendan O’Hara, MP for Argyll and Bute, regarding the Type 26 frigates.

“What I can confirm to the hon. Gentleman is that, had the independence vote gone the way that he and his colleagues would have liked, no warships would have been built on the Clyde, because the United Kingdom Government would not have chosen to build them there; we made that very clear.

As it is, as I have just confirmed to the House, we will be proceeding with the construction of eight complex Type 26 warships on the Clyde as and when the programme is ready.”

--------------------------

"David Cameron had told the House of Commons at the time of the Strategic Defence and Security Review:

“There will be eight of the Type 26s and at least another five of the new type of frigate, probably more, and they can be built in Scotland if the conditions are right.

The only way these ships wouldn’t be built in Scotland is if Scotland was independent and didn’t have the national resources of the Royal Navy.”

-----------------------

"It should be noted that the yards on the Clyde will now in fact build and work on 18 vessels of varying types, instead of the originally promised 13."

----------------------------------------

Ian King, chief executive of BAE, had indicated in a letter submitted to the Scottish Affairs Committee in 2014 that shipyards on the Clyde would likely have to close if Scotland voted for independence. The future of the yards at Govan and Scotstoun is directly tied into the Type 26 frigates and Mr King has said BAE would build the ships at a location compatible with the contract awarding process of the Ministry of Defence.

Ok you say you do your research then please go look up what Scottish Labour leaflets say as it clearly states ''Within the UK Govan and Scotstoun will get the order of 13 type 26 frigates from the royal navy. Now that is a promise from Better Together as Labour did joined in with the Tories and Lib Dems for form Better Together.

So do you believe that promise to build 13 should not be delivered as promised ?

We are not talking about independence take the yes and no side out of the question now. Am pointing out this was promise made to Scotland and those workers that they would have secure jobs on the Clyde for the next 20 years. "

Can you post a link to the promise and I'll check it out?

Also it's very relevant what the promise from the Yes side was. If the criticism is that the UK promised 13 figates and will build less (and the link I've provided shows they'll build 18 ships in total) then how would a vote for independence save jobs on the Clyde when the white paper claims that Scotland will only need 2 frigates for it's navy and they will come from the Royal Navy's current fleet.

So within the UK the Clyde will build a minimum of 8 frigates. In an independent Scotland the Clyde will build no frigates.

So which option is better for jobs on the Clyde?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"Could argue that the Royals bring in money to the British economy. Being part of Britain has helped us with regards to our financial deficit which stands around the £14 billion or gdp of around 9%"

Go ahead, please try to make that argument. Royalty costs a fortune and there is no evidence that the royals bring any financial benefit to the UK.

(see republic.org if you need the facts on the cost of monarchy, as opposed to the myths which so many are apparently happy to swallow unquestioningly)

For any society, the concept of monarchy is irreconcilable with being a true democracy.

Just as, for Scotland, Westminster domination is incompatible with principles of democracy.

By reason and logic, it is impossible to be a Scottish unionist and claim the moral high ground. Not if you believe in self-determination, for a country's population just as much as for the individual.

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"Could argue that the Royals bring in money to the British economy. Being part of Britain has helped us with regards to our financial deficit which stands around the £14 billion or gdp of around 9%

Go ahead, please try to make that argument. Royalty costs a fortune and there is no evidence that the royals bring any financial benefit to the UK.

(see republic.org if you need the facts on the cost of monarchy, as opposed to the myths which so many are apparently happy to swallow unquestioningly)

For any society, the concept of monarchy is irreconcilable with being a true democracy.

Just as, for Scotland, Westminster domination is incompatible with principles of democracy.

By reason and logic, it is impossible to be a Scottish unionist and claim the moral high ground. Not if you believe in self-determination, for a country's population just as much as for the individual."

I know your post was replying to someone else but I'm happy to discuss this. What are you claiming is the cost of the monarchy per person in Scotland?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"So how may ships were promised and how many are being built? You tell me.

And is it more or less than the White paper promised an indy Scotland would build?

i find that worrying you dont know as i guessing you voted no.

The promise was 13 frigates would be build on the Clyde. This has nothing to do with the White paper this is all on the promise from the 3 unionist parties that promised 13 frigates and was supposed to secure jobs on the Clyde for the next 20 years.

Do you not believe that this promise of 13 frigates should be kept and delivered ? What about all those workers ?

I don't know what was promised, I only go with things I can research. Can you post a link that proves this promise? And also, can you give me some evidence that the shipyards would have had more orders if we were independent?

Here's some quotes I've found from the UK defence journal:

'GMB Scotland Secretary Gary Smith said:

“This report was commissioned following the delays to the type-26 programme and because of the long-term frustrations felt by our members across the sector after years of being used as a political football.

One job on the Upper Clyde alone supports an additional 1.18 jobs across Scotland so for the future of Scottish shipbuilding and our long-term economic prosperity it is imperative that the UK government makes good on the promised frigate programme.

Furthermore, and with a second independence referendum a real possibility, the Scottish government needs to demonstrate to our members how they would plan to sustain their jobs, wages, pensions, skills and local communities without MoD investment.

This report is a reality check and shows that the fragile Scottish economy cannot do without the thousands of jobs and hundreds of millions of pounds in wages supported by navy shipbuilding contracts.”

-----------------------------

"The full statement was made by then Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology Phillip Dunne in response to a question from Brendan O’Hara, MP for Argyll and Bute, regarding the Type 26 frigates.

“What I can confirm to the hon. Gentleman is that, had the independence vote gone the way that he and his colleagues would have liked, no warships would have been built on the Clyde, because the United Kingdom Government would not have chosen to build them there; we made that very clear.

As it is, as I have just confirmed to the House, we will be proceeding with the construction of eight complex Type 26 warships on the Clyde as and when the programme is ready.”

--------------------------

"David Cameron had told the House of Commons at the time of the Strategic Defence and Security Review:

“There will be eight of the Type 26s and at least another five of the new type of frigate, probably more, and they can be built in Scotland if the conditions are right.

The only way these ships wouldn’t be built in Scotland is if Scotland was independent and didn’t have the national resources of the Royal Navy.”

-----------------------

"It should be noted that the yards on the Clyde will now in fact build and work on 18 vessels of varying types, instead of the originally promised 13."

----------------------------------------

Ian King, chief executive of BAE, had indicated in a letter submitted to the Scottish Affairs Committee in 2014 that shipyards on the Clyde would likely have to close if Scotland voted for independence. The future of the yards at Govan and Scotstoun is directly tied into the Type 26 frigates and Mr King has said BAE would build the ships at a location compatible with the contract awarding process of the Ministry of Defence.

Ok you say you do your research then please go look up what Scottish Labour leaflets say as it clearly states ''Within the UK Govan and Scotstoun will get the order of 13 type 26 frigates from the royal navy. Now that is a promise from Better Together as Labour did joined in with the Tories and Lib Dems for form Better Together.

So do you believe that promise to build 13 should not be delivered as promised ?

We are not talking about independence take the yes and no side out of the question now. Am pointing out this was promise made to Scotland and those workers that they would have secure jobs on the Clyde for the next 20 years.

Can you post a link to the promise and I'll check it out?

Also it's very relevant what the promise from the Yes side was. If the criticism is that the UK promised 13 figates and will build less (and the link I've provided shows they'll build 18 ships in total) then how would a vote for independence save jobs on the Clyde when the white paper claims that Scotland will only need 2 frigates for it's navy and they will come from the Royal Navy's current fleet.

So within the UK the Clyde will build a minimum of 8 frigates. In an independent Scotland the Clyde will build no frigates.

So which option is better for jobs on the Clyde?

"

I dont have to post anything you said you do your research then its easy to look up.

Right we are dealing with that Better Together promised right now as we are not in an independent Scotland stick with that right now.

The promise was to build 13 frigates on the Clyde and secure jobs for the next 20 years. So say Scotland does vote for independence in the next few years then that promise of those ships being build will keep going in an independent Scotland or that is breaking a promise.

Did you see the Fallon interview ? He failed to answer the question on if Scotland were to vote for independence would these frigates still be build ... he gave no answer So the UK government is pretty much saying if Scotland were to vote for independence they would break their promise of securing those jobs for the next 20 years.

Its been good chatting but am going to bed to have fun with the wife. You have a good night

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"Could argue that the Royals bring in money to the British economy. Being part of Britain has helped us with regards to our financial deficit which stands around the £14 billion or gdp of around 9%

Go ahead, please try to make that argument. Royalty costs a fortune and there is no evidence that the royals bring any financial benefit to the UK.

(see republic.org if you need the facts on the cost of monarchy, as opposed to the myths which so many are apparently happy to swallow unquestioningly)

For any society, the concept of monarchy is irreconcilable with being a true democracy.

Just as, for Scotland, Westminster domination is incompatible with principles of democracy.

By reason and logic, it is impossible to be a Scottish unionist and claim the moral high ground. Not if you believe in self-determination, for a country's population just as much as for the individual.

I know your post was replying to someone else but I'm happy to discuss this. What are you claiming is the cost of the monarchy per person in Scotland?"

I don't recall making any claim of that description. But it's interesting that you should seek to use such phrasing.

It is standard practice for Buck House flunkies and palace apologists, particularly whenever Brenda's "firm" is asking for yet more money, to portray the costs to the taxpayer as (only!) x pounds per household per day. Sophistry writ large.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"

I dont have to post anything you said you do your research then its easy to look up.

Right we are dealing with that Better Together promised right now as we are not in an independent Scotland stick with that right now.

The promise was to build 13 frigates on the Clyde and secure jobs for the next 20 years. So say Scotland does vote for independence in the next few years then that promise of those ships being build will keep going in an independent Scotland or that is breaking a promise.

Did you see the Fallon interview ? He failed to answer the question on if Scotland were to vote for independence would these frigates still be build ... he gave no answer So the UK government is pretty much saying if Scotland were to vote for independence they would break their promise of securing those jobs for the next 20 years.

Its been good chatting but am going to bed to have fun with the wife. You have a good night "

You're right you don't have to post anything but I can't find anything that links to the claim you are making so it would be helpful if you could provide it and prove it exists.

Also, you can't claim your concern is jobs on the Clyde and then completely ignore the fact that the UK government will build far more ships there than the SNP said an independent Scotland would. Even if the UK only built 1 frigate that is still more than the SNP promised. You seem to want to ignore that fact completely but that is central to the whole discussion, i.e. being in the UK is far more beneficial to Clyde ship workers than being independent would be. That is what matters to those employees who's livelihoods depend on RN contracts.

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"

I know your post was replying to someone else but I'm happy to discuss this. What are you claiming is the cost of the monarchy per person in Scotland?

I don't recall making any claim of that description. But it's interesting that you should seek to use such phrasing.

It is standard practice for Buck House flunkies and palace apologists, particularly whenever Brenda's "firm" is asking for yet more money, to portray the costs to the taxpayer as (only!) x pounds per household per day. Sophistry writ large."

So lets get past any flowery language or rhetoric and put it in real terms. While Scotland is part of the UK and benefits from spending of £1700 per person more than we raise in taxes (according to Scottish Govt figures) , how much does the royal family cost each person?

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling

Should Scotland become independent one of the first things SNP were going to do was do scrap trident. Whilst I would love to live in a nuclear weapon free world I believe it is important to have that deterrent. Anyway that would have a massive effect on clydeside.

Should we become independant would the rest of Brittian contract warships to be made in a country that has severed ties and could possible oppose millitry conflict. Think their would be the argument for a conflict of interest. In probability this work and trident would be moved to Belfast who are crying out for investment and have the deep ports and infrastructure to carry out such work.

Also don't think the SNP and independence supporters can take the high ground with regards to false promises. The all conquering white paper turned out be pure fantasy.

Think all politicians push for their own agenda across the political divides.

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire


"

Can you tell me how much the royals have brought to scotland through tourism? and i did accept the independence result at the time but times have changed and if the snp want another one then they will have it and theres not much unionists like yourself can do about it

How much did the Royals bring to Scotland? If you look at the Scottish Government's own figure the UK has given us an additional £9 billion over and above our tax take. If you want to be independent solely to get rid of the Royal family then realise that would mean Scotland losing the equivalent of 3/4 of our NHS budget just to satisfy your irrational dislike of the monarchy.

So, how do you propose to replace this missing income? Do you have a plan to do it and if you do can you share it with us?

Another one who cant answer my question of how much money the royals bring to scotland ,and its not so much a irrational dislike of them i just see them as benefit scroungers who bring nothing to scotland other than to get the unionists to bow to them

The two options are

a) independent Scotland

b) UK government with the monarcy.

Option B brings an extra £9 billion to the Scottish economy. So I'll ask again, if you don't want option B how do you replace that?

Just to help you out, there is no option C, i.e. The UK government without the monarchy (still giving us £9 billion)

Il leave that to the polititians to sort out and still no answer as to how much they bring to scotland ,if you check above posts you will see _anarkshirelass said they contribute substantial amount to our economy thats why i ask how much but no answer "

the total value of the monarchy to the UK’s economy is an estimated £1.155 billion for 2015, according to their research.

Accepted that is for the UK economy, but Ill think I'm right in my assumption that the 'Scottish bit' ...is in % wise well over what we (Scottish Peeps) put in.'

Article from the Independent...

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/the-biggest-myth-about-the-queen-her-contribution-to-the-british-economy-10491277.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just want to know when the third referendum is booked for.

If the son can call one ever four years or so why can't the other side

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By *rbane PlayerMan
over a year ago

London


"Let's take a bit of responsibility and have the courage to make Scotland the country we want it to be.

Let's do talking uninformed nonsense on immigration and realise we have an aging population, declining tax base and cannot survive without inward migration.

Let's not become a low tax, low job security, paid health service, mini America in thrall to lunatics and dictators.

Let's not pretend that the SNP are perfect and that we don't have problems that need addressed. But let's realise we are best taking them ourselves.

Let's be the modern, successful, open country we all want to be.

"

Planning my move to Aberdeen!

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire


"

I know your post was replying to someone else but I'm happy to discuss this. What are you claiming is the cost of the monarchy per person in Scotland?

I don't recall making any claim of that description. But it's interesting that you should seek to use such phrasing.

It is standard practice for Buck House flunkies and palace apologists, particularly whenever Brenda's "firm" is asking for yet more money, to portray the costs to the taxpayer as (only!) x pounds per household per day. Sophistry writ large.

So lets get past any flowery language or rhetoric and put it in real terms. While Scotland is part of the UK and benefits from spending of £1700 per person more than we raise in taxes (according to Scottish Govt figures) , how much does the royal family cost each person?

"

Queen's income rises again as cost of Royal family is 62p per person in the UK ...The joys of google . Extract taken from the Telegraph.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *horstrollMan
over a year ago

Caprona

Folks thanks for the informed posts....

Anyone care to actually talk about more serious issues....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just a wee question for all the unionist no voters see if you could live in a scotland that had no debt a strong economy your kids and grandkids would have a great life would you still vote no ?or is it still the old tribal rule Britannia and queen and country shit , lets see how many will answer truthfully

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By *heesyheadbandMan
over a year ago

Glenrothes


"I just want to know when the third referendum is booked for."

they better start thinking about it because it will be a resounding NO this time round, even though the media etc would have you think otherwise.

i guarantee it lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just want to know when the third referendum is booked for.

they better start thinking about it because it will be a resounding NO this time round, even though the media etc would have you think otherwise.

i guarantee it lol"

You cant guarantee anything

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By *heesyheadbandMan
over a year ago

Glenrothes


"Just a wee question for all the unionist no voters see if you could live in a scotland that had no debt a strong economy your kids and grandkids would have a great life would you still vote no?"

do think that's possible being part of/in the EU?

i'm a Yes voter but will be voting No this time round if it happens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just a wee question for all the unionist no voters see if you could live in a scotland that had no debt a strong economy your kids and grandkids would have a great life would you still vote no?

do think that's possible being part of/in the EU?

i'm a Yes voter but will be voting No this time round if it happens."

well obiously that question wasnt for you

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By *heesyheadbandMan
over a year ago

Glenrothes


"You cant guarantee anything "

fair enough IMHO then it will be a No, i can see it happening, Sturgeon is doing more damage than she/her supporters think and will no doubt be in shock when the final results come in

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By *heesyheadbandMan
over a year ago

Glenrothes


"Just a wee question for all the unionist no voters see if you could live in a scotland that had no debt a strong economy your kids and grandkids would have a great life would you still vote no?

do think that's possible being part of/in the EU?

i'm a Yes voter but will be voting No this time round if it happens. well obiously that question wasnt for you "

i know it's not but i do have a question for him and thought i'd say exactly where i stand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You cant guarantee anything

fair enough IMHO then it will be a No, i can see it happening, Sturgeon is doing more damage than she/her supporters think and will no doubt be in shock when the final results come in "

So being a no supporter is it more about politics or about queen and country?

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By *heesyheadbandMan
over a year ago

Glenrothes

it's about Politics, i don't want Scotland to be part of the European Union, i don't think there should a Queen and i don't consider myself British...

oh and i hate football lol

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By *heesyheadbandMan
over a year ago

Glenrothes

i believe in a independent Scotland outwith the EU.

the EU is falling apart, once Le Pen is elected and France leave...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Folks thanks for the informed posts....

Anyone care to actually talk about more serious issues...."

why don't you "start a thread"

no, didn't think so

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire


"Just a wee question for all the unionist no voters see if you could live in a scotland that had no debt a strong economy your kids and grandkids would have a great life would you still vote no ?or is it still the old tribal rule Britannia and queen and country shit , lets see how many will answer truthfully "

Unionist Voter....Yep so I'll gladly answer

No debt...it would be great

Strong economy for my kids and grandkids...it would be fantastic...

But are you trying to insult our intelligence by telling us that by getting an overwhelming yes INDY2 vote that the SNP republican party will provide us with all your utopian views?

But can you answer truthfully...

HOW are we going to be debt free? Oil revenue? The debt is the UK debt, and our (Scotlands)proportion of that debt would mean we wouldn't be debt free in your lifetime. WE COULDNT JUST WALK AWAY AND SAY WERE NOT PAYING.

So please don't be so daft to come away with that.

How is the current Scottish Economy doing in comparison to the rest of the UK...its crap. And that's with a SNP government being in charge for years.

But hey ho...easy thing to do, as what the SNP does, is to blame Westminster for all our woes.

Can I ask, if the queen and country shit is so annoying....why don't you just decide to do what's best for yourself,you kids and grandkids and pack up your bags and move to somewhere were the economy is debt free and the economy of that country is booming?

I don't think you'll find that so easy to do, but best of luck.

And lastly...Whats your views, if on the assumption that successful Indy vote went in favour of the yes voters, there was a call for Indy3 from the NO voters... would you say 'yes no problems' lets just have another vote to appease those who lost and wont accept the decision of the country?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can we stop using the phrase indyref2 , please.

The snp once they announce the referendum it is officially to be called new indyref so it does not remind us that the last one was defeated.

Thanking you in advance

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By *aveandSue1Couple
over a year ago

Doncaster

[Removed by poster at 20/02/17 11:18:32]

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By *earded villainMan
over a year ago

edinburgh


"Just a wee question for all the unionist no voters see if you could live in a scotland that had no debt a strong economy your kids and grandkids would have a great life would you still vote no ?or is it still the old tribal rule Britannia and queen and country shit , lets see how many will answer truthfully

Unionist Voter....Yep so I'll gladly answer

No debt...it would be great

Strong economy for my kids and grandkids...it would be fantastic...

But are you trying to insult our intelligence by telling us that by getting an overwhelming yes INDY2 vote that the SNP republican party will provide us with all your utopian views?

But can you answer truthfully...

HOW are we going to be debt free? Oil revenue? The debt is the UK debt, and our (Scotlands)proportion of that debt would mean we wouldn't be debt free in your lifetime. WE COULDNT JUST WALK AWAY AND SAY WERE NOT PAYING.

So please don't be so daft to come away with that.

How is the current Scottish Economy doing in comparison to the rest of the UK...its crap. And that's with a SNP government being in charge for years.

But hey ho...easy thing to do, as what the SNP does, is to blame Westminster for all our woes.

Can I ask, if the queen and country shit is so annoying....why don't you just decide to do what's best for yourself,you kids and grandkids and pack up your bags and move to somewhere were the economy is debt free and the economy of that country is booming?

I don't think you'll find that so easy to do, but best of luck.

And lastly...Whats your views, if on the assumption that successful Indy vote went in favour of the yes voters, there was a call for Indy3 from the NO voters... would you say 'yes no problems' lets just have another vote to appease those who lost and wont accept the decision of the country?

"

if we gained independance it wouldnt be and independance referendum 3 would it just saying.

also why the random capitalisation of words ? find it very odd .

your language and tone i think tells us exactly what part of lanarkshire you hail from

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire


"Just a wee question for all the unionist no voters see if you could live in a scotland that had no debt a strong economy your kids and grandkids would have a great life would you still vote no ?or is it still the old tribal rule Britannia and queen and country shit , lets see how many will answer truthfully

Unionist Voter....Yep so I'll gladly answer

No debt...it would be great

Strong economy for my kids and grandkids...it would be fantastic...

But are you trying to insult our intelligence by telling us that by getting an overwhelming yes INDY2 vote that the SNP republican party will provide us with all your utopian views?

But can you answer truthfully...

HOW are we going to be debt free? Oil revenue? The debt is the UK debt, and our (Scotlands)proportion of that debt would mean we wouldn't be debt free in your lifetime. WE COULDNT JUST WALK AWAY AND SAY WERE NOT PAYING.

So please don't be so daft to come away with that.

How is the current Scottish Economy doing in comparison to the rest of the UK...its crap. And that's with a SNP government being in charge for years.

But hey ho...easy thing to do, as what the SNP does, is to blame Westminster for all our woes.

Can I ask, if the queen and country shit is so annoying....why don't you just decide to do what's best for yourself,you kids and grandkids and pack up your bags and move to somewhere were the economy is debt free and the economy of that country is booming?

I don't think you'll find that so easy to do, but best of luck.

And lastly...Whats your views, if on the assumption that successful Indy vote went in favour of the yes voters, there was a call for Indy3 from the NO voters... would you say 'yes no problems' lets just have another vote to appease those who lost and wont accept the decision of the country?

if we gained independance it wouldnt be and independance referendum 3 would it just saying.

also why the random capitalisation of words ? find it very odd .

your language and tone i think tells us exactly what part of lanarkshire you hail from "

First and foremost my referral to Indy 3 relates to what the 'losers' of Indy 2 could reasonable ask for...if its happened once then it can happen again.

Silly point scoring and extremely stupid.

My language and tone?.... awww because I answer the question asked and I use some upper case letters that's you assuming what?...says more about you than me.

It's an assumption and inference by you and an incorrect one at that. What does that make you. Your obviously someone who doesn't like what I say and then goes down road of assuming things to meet your small mind and your argument

But I think there's one thing clear in the entire thread...and its this...

there wont be an Indy 2 there wont be a Republic of Scotland so accept it,deal with it, enjoy it and give it laldy when you next hear the national anthem.

On that note I'll finish...fail fail

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Let's take a bit of responsibility and have the courage to make Scotland the country we want it to be.

Let's do talking uninformed nonsense on immigration and realise we have an aging population, declining tax base and cannot survive without inward migration.

Let's not become a low tax, low job security, paid health service, mini America in thrall to lunatics and dictators.

Let's not pretend that the SNP are perfect and that we don't have problems that need addressed. But let's realise we are best taking them ourselves.

Let's be the modern, successful, open country we all want to be.

"

Mon the SNP

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Lets all be big fluffy bunny rabbits with big eyes and smile gleefully all day long. Failing that be a realist and accept the majority dont share your vision

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By *itsmcgee4Couple
over a year ago

Central

Freeeeeedooooooom!

I'm just stirring it

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling

I honestly can't see their being a second referendum. I think the SNP know they don't have the support hence why they haven't officially tried to call one. They threatened it with their anti austerity drive now it's their anti Brexit campaign.

Talking about it keeps their hardlined supporters happy. They'll pick up swing voters who are unhappy with labour which will keep them in power.

The one thing that remains to be scene is how long the can go on blaming Westminster and everybody else for everything before people hold them accountable.

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By *earded villainMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

someones a touch sensitive aint they

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For all the anti independence people give me a reasonable excuse to stay in this Godforasken union where all we do is subsidise Westminster!!!!! And get nothing back.

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling

Think you'll find they subsidise us hence why we have a £14 billion deficit. Check out the Barnett formula. If we were to go independent how on earth to we pay that back.

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire


"someones a touch sensitive aint they "

Someone's a bit of a bearded plonker...isn't he.

Come back in when you can add something constructive to the thread.

Ive baited my hook and waiting on you biting? againnnnnnnnnnnnn

Fail, fail againnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

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By *anarkshirelassCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire


"For all the anti independence people give me a reasonable excuse to stay in this Godforasken union where all we do is subsidise Westminster!!!!! And get nothing back. "

Same reasons we didn't vote to Leave in the first place. We don't believe the hype and false information given by the SNP to support their clam.

However, and no offence, but if you take the time to read all the replies, from the anti independence people, I think you'll see some very eloquent and well informed reasons and well detailed and supportive arguments for not wanting Indy 2.

I'm really struggling to understand what it is about the results, apart from the fact, it didn't go the nationalists way, that Yes campaigners don't understand and wont accept?

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"Think you'll find they subsidise us hence why we have a £14 billion deficit. Check out the Barnett formula. If we were to go independent how on earth to we pay that back. "

They subside us ? Strange then why are they have bend on trying to keep Scotland ?

They got mental when they said Obama shouldnt stick his nose in the EU referendum but they seem ok with three 3 English party leaders coming up to Scotland in the last week before the votes in the Scottish referendum all because they shat a brick that yes.took the lead in one poll.

As money is not Devolved to Scotland that is reversed to Westminster its the the Tories that are screwing about with the economy and adding to the debt. Yes i know debt and deficit is different.

Who set up GERS ? By law the Scottish government have to go with those figures but what party was it that set up GERS?

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling


"Think you'll find they subsidise us hence why we have a £14 billion deficit. Check out the Barnett formula. If we were to go independent how on earth to we pay that back.

They subside us ? Strange then why are they have bend on trying to keep Scotland ?

They got mental when they said Obama shouldnt stick his nose in the EU referendum but they seem ok with three 3 English party leaders coming up to Scotland in the last week before the votes in the Scottish referendum all because they shat a brick that yes.took the lead in one poll.

As money is not Devolved to Scotland that is reversed to Westminster its the the Tories that are screwing about with the economy and adding to the debt. Yes i know debt and deficit is different.

Who set up GERS ? By law the Scottish government have to go with those figures but what party was it that set up GERS? "

So can you explain why we have a £14 billion deficit. Those figures were released by the Scottish government.

The Scottish referendum affected Britain as we wanted to withdraw from Britain. So I think they had every reasin to state their case.

And before you mention false promisises look at the complete fantasy that was the white paper. Figures and guarantees that were totally unrealistic.

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"Think you'll find they subsidise us hence why we have a £14 billion deficit. Check out the Barnett formula. If we were to go independent how on earth to we pay that back.

They subside us ? Strange then why are they have bend on trying to keep Scotland ?

They got mental when they said Obama shouldnt stick his nose in the EU referendum but they seem ok with three 3 English party leaders coming up to Scotland in the last week before the votes in the Scottish referendum all because they shat a brick that yes.took the lead in one poll.

As money is not Devolved to Scotland that is reversed to Westminster its the the Tories that are screwing about with the economy and adding to the debt. Yes i know debt and deficit is different.

Who set up GERS ? By law the Scottish government have to go with those figures but what party was it that set up GERS? "

They are compiled by the Scottish government and have been refined over the years by this SNP govt. The SNP quoted them 15 times in their White Paper when trying to make their economic case for independence and page 67 states 'Gers are the authoritative publication on Scotlands public finances'

The simple fact is if the figures were showing Scotland had a large surplus rather than a deficit indy supporters would be shouting from the rooftops about the Gers figures. It's the fact they don't like that the opposite is true that leads to this.

I should add one final point and that is that the SNPs favourite economists (the Indy supporting Cuthberts) also agree on the validity of Gers.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"Think you'll find they subsidise us hence why we have a £14 billion deficit. Check out the Barnett formula. If we were to go independent how on earth to we pay that back.

They subside us ? Strange then why are they have bend on trying to keep Scotland ?

They got mental when they said Obama shouldnt stick his nose in the EU referendum but they seem ok with three 3 English party leaders coming up to Scotland in the last week before the votes in the Scottish referendum all because they shat a brick that yes.took the lead in one poll.

As money is not Devolved to Scotland that is reversed to Westminster its the the Tories that are screwing about with the economy and adding to the debt. Yes i know debt and deficit is different.

Who set up GERS ? By law the Scottish government have to go with those figures but what party was it that set up GERS?

So can you explain why we have a £14 billion deficit. Those figures were released by the Scottish government.

The Scottish referendum affected Britain as we wanted to withdraw from Britain. So I think they had every reasin to state their case.

And before you mention false promisises look at the complete fantasy that was the white paper. Figures and guarantees that were totally unrealistic."

Yes seen as money is not devolved at Westminster are in charge then its the UK government at fault for screwing about with the money hell the Tories have been in power since 2010 and not met a target yet and added to the debt.

Am really interested to know the answer to this question if England subside us then why is Westminster hell bend on keeping Scotland ?

Also which party was it tha set up GERS ? Like i said by law the Scottish government have to go with those figures but as money is not devolved that all lies with Westminster fucking up with finances / economy

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By *horstrollMan
over a year ago

Caprona


"Folks thanks for the informed posts....

Anyone care to actually talk about more serious issues....

why don't you "start a thread"

no, didn't think so"

i might just thanks for the nudge

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling


"Think you'll find they subsidise us hence why we have a £14 billion deficit. Check out the Barnett formula. If we were to go independent how on earth to we pay that back.

They subside us ? Strange then why are they have bend on trying to keep Scotland ?

They got mental when they said Obama shouldnt stick his nose in the EU referendum but they seem ok with three 3 English party leaders coming up to Scotland in the last week before the votes in the Scottish referendum all because they shat a brick that yes.took the lead in one poll.

As money is not Devolved to Scotland that is reversed to Westminster its the the Tories that are screwing about with the economy and adding to the debt. Yes i know debt and deficit is different.

Who set up GERS ? By law the Scottish government have to go with those figures but what party was it that set up GERS?

So can you explain why we have a £14 billion deficit. Those figures were released by the Scottish government.

The Scottish referendum affected Britain as we wanted to withdraw from Britain. So I think they had every reasin to state their case.

And before you mention false promisises look at the complete fantasy that was the white paper. Figures and guarantees that were totally unrealistic.

Yes seen as money is not devolved at Westminster are in charge then its the UK government at fault for screwing about with the money hell the Tories have been in power since 2010 and not met a target yet and added to the debt.

Am really interested to know the answer to this question if England subside us then why is Westminster hell bend on keeping Scotland ?

Also which party was it tha set up GERS ? Like i said by law the Scottish government have to go with those figures but as money is not devolved that all lies with Westminster fucking up with finances / economy "

.

Brittian works better together as a union and has been one for over 300 years.

With regards to the Tories being in power since 2010. How long have the SNP been in power yet or deficit grows and how many targets have they missed. Nhs, education, etc. If it's still not their fault, what have they then done over the last decade??

Scotland's sits with a deficit of £14.7 billion a gdp of 9% so again are these figures (released by the Scottish government) a figment of the imagination. Your asking to explain things. Please explain how we as an independent country reduce that? Remember the SNP are an anti austerity party. so would they reduce public spending and increase tax? we're doing rather well out of the Barnett formula. So if we're supporting the rest of Britain or the big bad monster Westminster why is our deficit growing. Just to remind if you borrow more tha. You pay in that's how you get a deficit.

If you want independence you need a plan and to covince people like myself and those posted to vote yes. So what's the plan?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fast forward a few years and the thread will be indyref 3 when the losing minority refuse to accept they lost.

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By *lascumMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Was no then, no now and no in the future.

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Yes seen as money is not devolved at Westminster are in charge then its the UK government at fault for screwing about with the money hell the Tories have been in power since 2010 and not met a target yet and added to the debt.

Am really interested to know the answer to this question if England subside us then why is Westminster hell bend on keeping Scotland ?

Also which party was it tha set up GERS ? Like i said by law the Scottish government have to go with those figures but as money is not devolved that all lies with Westminster fucking up with finances / economy "

Which part of Scotland's finances that aren't currently devolved do you think should be? Given that much is now devolved and more is coming (Welfare payments) what else, specifically, is there?

Your rhetorical question is meaningless. If your answer to people taking the time to explain the finances to you is repeating why are England so keen to hang onto us then it shows that you have no interest in understanding the finances and no answer to the grim reality they paint of an indy Scotland (sorry to be so blunt). I will answer the question and pose one of my own anyway, countries (or political unions) don't generally go around looking to dump parts just because they are costly. As an example, why doesn't the UK get rid of NI, which is also subsidised? Or, why don't the EU get rid of countries like Greece which are subsidised? Let's not forget the best reason of all, i.e. the people chose to remain in the UK.

Finally re Gers, what does it matter who set them up? They have been refined by the Scottish Govt over the years. You claim they're lies even though the SNP themselves have said (and I quote again) 'They are the authoritative publication of Scotland's public finances'. To claim that is all lies with no evidence whatsoever, and indeed all the evidence is to the contrary, is ridiculous. Here's a quote from the Scottish govt: "GERS is compiled by statisticians and economists in the Office of the Chief Economic Adviser of the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government's Chief Statistician takes responsibility for this publication"

It should also be noted that they've gone through continuos refinement by the SNP.

If the figures are lies then it's easy to make a complaint to the Code of Practice for Offical Statistics (funnily enough no one seems to have done this). The UK Statistics authority did carry out a review on their own of the methodology a couple of years ago and noted the following:

'In 2007, the Scottish Government undertook a review of the data

sources and apportionment methods used in GERS. Following the review, the

Scottish Government updated the methods used to produce GERS.'

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"

Yes seen as money is not devolved at Westminster are in charge then its the UK government at fault for screwing about with the money hell the Tories have been in power since 2010 and not met a target yet and added to the debt.

Am really interested to know the answer to this question if England subside us then why is Westminster hell bend on keeping Scotland ?

Also which party was it tha set up GERS ? Like i said by law the Scottish government have to go with those figures but as money is not devolved that all lies with Westminster fucking up with finances / economy

Which part of Scotland's finances that aren't currently devolved do you think should be? Given that much is now devolved and more is coming (Welfare payments) what else, specifically, is there?

Your rhetorical question is meaningless. If your answer to people taking the time to explain the finances to you is repeating why are England so keen to hang onto us then it shows that you have no interest in understanding the finances and no answer to the grim reality they paint of an indy Scotland (sorry to be so blunt). I will answer the question and pose one of my own anyway, countries (or political unions) don't generally go around looking to dump parts just because they are costly. As an example, why doesn't the UK get rid of NI, which is also subsidised? Or, why don't the EU get rid of countries like Greece which are subsidised? Let's not forget the best reason of all, i.e. the people chose to remain in the UK.

Finally re Gers, what does it matter who set them up? They have been refined by the Scottish Govt over the years. You claim they're lies even though the SNP themselves have said (and I quote again) 'They are the authoritative publication of Scotland's public finances'. To claim that is all lies with no evidence whatsoever, and indeed all the evidence is to the contrary, is ridiculous. Here's a quote from the Scottish govt: "GERS is compiled by statisticians and economists in the Office of the Chief Economic Adviser of the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government's Chief Statistician takes responsibility for this publication"

It should also be noted that they've gone through continuos refinement by the SNP.

If the figures are lies then it's easy to make a complaint to the Code of Practice for Offical Statistics (funnily enough no one seems to have done this). The UK Statistics authority did carry out a review on their own of the methodology a couple of years ago and noted the following:

'In 2007, the Scottish Government undertook a review of the data

sources and apportionment methods used in GERS. Following the review, the

Scottish Government updated the methods used to produce GERS.'"

IS that full control over Welfare ? How about any money raised in Scotland stays in Scotland ? I dont know about you but i would rather have the Scottish government in charge of our money rather than the Tories.

No its not meaningless i wish someone would actually try and answer it if England subside us then why does Westminster want Scotland to stay so badly ?

Who set us GERS ? Again by law the Scottish government have to go with those figures are you seriously saying the Scottish government should break the law ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A patriot Loves his Country

A Nationalist hates other countries.

No No NO no matter how many times asked

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said!! I think also we are forgetting the small fact that we have the biggest debt in Europe too!!!! That's with 10 years of a nationalist party rule!! It's a shambles!! They are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think that we can live off the sale of whiskey because in all honesty that's really all we have to export now. Every time sturgeon and her followers are questioned about education, finance and Nhs it's always someone else's fault. Only 1 party left now in Scotland who can make a change

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling


"

Yes seen as money is not devolved at Westminster are in charge then its the UK government at fault for screwing about with the money hell the Tories have been in power since 2010 and not met a target yet and added to the debt.

Am really interested to know the answer to this question if England subside us then why is Westminster hell bend on keeping Scotland ?

Also which party was it tha set up GERS ? Like i said by law the Scottish government have to go with those figures but as money is not devolved that all lies with Westminster fucking up with finances / economy

Which part of Scotland's finances that aren't currently devolved do you think should be? Given that much is now devolved and more is coming (Welfare payments) what else, specifically, is there?

Your rhetorical question is meaningless. If your answer to people taking the time to explain the finances to you is repeating why are England so keen to hang onto us then it shows that you have no interest in understanding the finances and no answer to the grim reality they paint of an indy Scotland (sorry to be so blunt). I will answer the question and pose one of my own anyway, countries (or political unions) don't generally go around looking to dump parts just because they are costly. As an example, why doesn't the UK get rid of NI, which is also subsidised? Or, why don't the EU get rid of countries like Greece which are subsidised? Let's not forget the best reason of all, i.e. the people chose to remain in the UK.

Finally re Gers, what does it matter who set them up? They have been refined by the Scottish Govt over the years. You claim they're lies even though the SNP themselves have said (and I quote again) 'They are the authoritative publication of Scotland's public finances'. To claim that is all lies with no evidence whatsoever, and indeed all the evidence is to the contrary, is ridiculous. Here's a quote from the Scottish govt: "GERS is compiled by statisticians and economists in the Office of the Chief Economic Adviser of the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government's Chief Statistician takes responsibility for this publication"

It should also be noted that they've gone through continuos refinement by the SNP.

If the figures are lies then it's easy to make a complaint to the Code of Practice for Offical Statistics (funnily enough no one seems to have done this). The UK Statistics authority did carry out a review on their own of the methodology a couple of years ago and noted the following:

'In 2007, the Scottish Government undertook a review of the data

sources and apportionment methods used in GERS. Following the review, the

Scottish Government updated the methods used to produce GERS.'

IS that full control over Welfare ? How about any money raised in Scotland stays in Scotland ? I dont know about you but i would rather have the Scottish government in charge of our money rather than the Tories.

No its not meaningless i wish someone would actually try and answer it if England subside us then why does Westminster want Scotland to stay so badly ?

Who set us GERS ? Again by law the Scottish government have to go with those figures are you seriously saying the Scottish government should break the law ? "

This is getting repetitive, firstly maybe Britian wants to keep the country together as the majority in Scotland voted for it. As previously mentioned a United Kingdom works also works better.

With regards to subsidising, as opposed to asking the same question read the previous replys. Why do we have such a vast deficit? Why do we get more out the Barnett formula than any other part of the U.K.? Every part of Britian pays into a central fund that money is divided and paid out we get more than we pay in.

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