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"Probably the same chicks meet guys at 18 or 19 I'm taking it? If you think a profile is underage you have to report it surly? "That was my thought too re the reporting  | |||
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"I started to chat on snapchat and once she sent a face pic i thought she looked young so jokingly said to send a pic of id lol Which eventually she admitted that shes 17 and lied on fab as 19 blocked immediately and reported to fab But the only reason i contacted her she had 4 different verifications from meeting guys aged 29 -45 what the actual fuck is wrong with folk" I imagine you've answered your own question really... she lied about her age, call me old fashioned but I think 19 is too young to be here anyway. However each to their own. In regard to men sleeping with underage females... well historically that's always happened though I agree it's immoral and disgusting. Funny how you rarely get a complaint about underage males having sex eh!  | |||
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"I started to chat on snapchat and once she sent a face pic i thought she looked young so jokingly said to send a pic of id lol Which eventually she admitted that shes 17 and lied on fab as 19 blocked immediately and reported to fab But the only reason i contacted her she had 4 different verifications from meeting guys aged 29 -45 what the actual fuck is wrong with folk I imagine you've answered your own question really... she lied about her age, call me old fashioned but I think 19 is too young to be here anyway. However each to their own. In regard to men sleeping with underage females... well historically that's always happened though I agree it's immoral and disgusting. Funny how you rarely get a complaint about underage males having sex eh! "yeah I have to totally agree with you on this one on all aspects of your comment x  | |||
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"I started to chat on snapchat and once she sent a face pic i thought she looked young so jokingly said to send a pic of id lol Which eventually she admitted that shes 17 and lied on fab as 19 blocked immediately and reported to fab But the only reason i contacted her she had 4 different verifications from meeting guys aged 29 -45 what the actual fuck is wrong with folk" Im guessing these guys werent as clever as you in asking for id . People lie on here about their age for numerous reasons none of which ul ever really find out. Only advice I can offer is to up your own age range and avoid profiles of around this age . Id also keep chat to here as its an over 18's site so if there is any comeback you shouls be safe enough believing they are of legal age | |||
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"I started to chat on snapchat and once she sent a face pic i thought she looked young so jokingly said to send a pic of id lol Which eventually she admitted that shes 17 and lied on fab as 19 blocked immediately and reported to fab But the only reason i contacted her she had 4 different verifications from meeting guys aged 29 -45 what the actual fuck is wrong with folkIm guessing these guys werent as clever as you in asking for id . People lie on here about their age for numerous reasons none of which ul ever really find out. Only advice I can offer is to up your own age range and avoid profiles of around this age . Id also keep chat to here as its an over 18's site so if there is any comeback you shouls be safe enough believing they are of legal age "Got to agree with Miss D here...No point in lambasting the guys although it's hard to believe they wouldn't have doubts about age on meeting. I know I'm an old fuddy duddy and believe me, more than happy to be so, but I think 18 is way too young. Minimum age of 25 would be safer all round imho. | |||
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it wouldnt chance 18 myself but just saying | |||
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"Thats border line MATE!! 16 I would tread carefully.. " me ? already stated even at 18 it wouldnt be for me but dimply pointing out the legal age of consent | |||
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I would say under 25 is to young but if there was such things as fab when I was 18 I would of been on here as well as going out to clubs etc on the pull. | |||
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"Thats border line MATE!! 16 I would tread carefully.. " whats borderline everything the user said is true. He also said its not his preferance | |||
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"eh is the legal age no 16 ? i appreciate tbe site is over 18s but its hardly underage . crazy we country we live in sign up to the army at 16 cant play call of duty till 18 . have sex and get married at 16 cant sign up to a dating or sex site till 18 .
it wouldnt chance 18 myself but just saying "I've never understood why it's fine to get married, smoke and have babies at 16, yet you have to be 17 to drive a car and 18 before you can drink. Just stupid. | |||
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"I have always been astounded at the amount of 18 to 25 year olds on here some of them with pages and pages of verifications .... I have children that age and have to agree and say that I'm pleased to have read there are people on here who also think that the tender age of 18 to 25 is too young for a site like this ." We are the same we have kids of that age group, if they are same or younger than ours it's a straight no! Just feels like it would be doing something wrong to someone in that age band! Well done for asking for ID though OP. Ps you more mature ladies don't have to show bus passes or anything we will believe your age | |||
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"I have always been astounded at the amount of 18 to 25 year olds on here some of them with pages and pages of verifications .... I have children that age and have to agree and say that I'm pleased to have read there are people on here who also think that the tender age of 18 to 25 is too young for a site like this ...... young people surely should be out enjoying themselves the old fashioned way not on here racking up scores of bedpost notches " This
Mr Villian you are right in that we send 18/19 year olds to war and can marry at 16... also too young  | |||
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"25 is too young ? ffs lol there is 21 year olds on here with more brains and common sense than people twice their age . " totally have to agree with you there mate some people's brains are in there big toes | |||
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"I have always been astounded at the amount of 18 to 25 year olds on here some of them with pages and pages of verifications .... I have children that age and have to agree and say that I'm pleased to have read there are people on here who also think that the tender age of 18 to 25 is too young for a site like this ...... young people surely should be out enjoying themselves the old fashioned way not on here racking up scores of bedpost notches This
Mr Villian you are right in that we send 18/19 year olds to war and can marry at 16... also too young "mr villian .hmmm i quite like the sound of that  | |||
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"I know how a lot of people may think that to be under 25 and on here is completely wrong and as a couple in real life and on here we get so much judgment. However as villain says, I have met many people double my age with half the common sense, self awareness and conscience as me. You can see our verifications and many people have met us in person and come to the same conclusion. I know they're are idiots on here too young for the site but to be perfectly honest I have more trouble from people in their thirties wanting "a notch on their bedpost" than other people my age. People are too quick to judge and id honestly prefer to be on this site than out there clubbing and ending up being felt up all night. " I have to agree with you. As I said, not all under 25s are daft bimbos. And not all over 25s are wonderful. It takes all different sorts. And yes, if they are serious about exploring their sexuality and want to experiment then swinging probably offers the safest way to do so as they can find someone they get on with and trust to explore with rather than a d*unk idiot at a club | |||
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"Absolutely and I am completely in agreement that no one should lie about their age and be here under 18. Its exactly why we waited until I was 18. I'm not naive that some young people who shouldn't be on here are more at risk from running into trouble on here but we as an age group shouldn't be lumped together. I also understand that, yes it's true, I am younger than some people's children on here and I completely respect that but I love this place and exploring things with my partner and others on here is such fun!!" And having spoken to you both briefly at socials, I found it works very very well for you both and long may it continue | |||
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"If there are people under 18 on here, then report and send your proof to admin. They will deal with it. As for underage, yes, 16 is the legal age of consent for sex. Personally, I have to say I think the majority of ladies under 25 are not for me. BUT, that being said, never say never as some have very mature heads on their shoulders. Why judge someone merely on their age? "Of course you are right 16 is the legal age but it's 18 and over for anything sexually explicit online or it can be classed as grooming. Stintson hunter caught someone out when they thought it was a 17 year old they were chatting to. | |||
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"I have always been astounded at the amount of 18 to 25 year olds on here some of them with pages and pages of verifications .... I have children that age and have to agree and say that I'm pleased to have read there are people on here who also think that the tender age of 18 to 25 is too young for a site like this ...... young people surely should be out enjoying themselves the old fashioned way not on here racking up scores of bedpost notches This
Mr Villian you are right in that we send 18/19 year olds to war and can marry at 16... also too young
mr villian .hmmm i quite like the sound of that "Ohh I know my manners  | |||
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"I know how a lot of people may think that to be under 25 and on here is completely wrong and as a couple in real life and on here we get so much judgment. However as villain says, I have met many people double my age with half the common sense, self awareness and conscience as me. You can see our verifications and many people have met us in person and come to the same conclusion. I know they're are idiots on here too young for the site but to be perfectly honest I have more trouble from people in their thirties wanting "a notch on their bedpost" than other people my age. People are too quick to judge and id honestly prefer to be on this site than out there clubbing and ending up being felt up all night. " Like all subjects/people here and in life there are generalities and there are the rare ones that make something like this work. Congrats that you have but on saying that at 19 you have no way of knowing how you'll feel about things you've done now. More than that and as someone said you may have children and that will most definitely colour your views. However perhaps I'm just an old fuddy duddy lol. Happy Fabbing to you both | |||
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"I do understand what you are saying but I think without having met me you can't say that I'll regret doing this when I'm older or have kids. Even you can't say that. You might regret doing what your doing on here in a few years and that is irrelevant of age and 10 years from now are you going to have raised your lower age limit to 35 because that's how old your children will be then? I know myself and how I view the swinging scene and what I do and it's been something I've been interested in since I was much younger than I am, before I even met Well hung and before I joined the site. All I know, like you, is that at this point in time I am happy doing what I am doing here and it does upset me when people group me into being naive just because of my age. " Yep, agreed | |||
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"And happy fabbing to you as well x" Thanks it was a pleasure and appreciated your input X | |||
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"And happy fabbing to you as well x Thanks it was a pleasure and appreciated your input X" Thank you x | |||
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"I do understand what you are saying but I think without having met me you can't say that I'll regret doing this when I'm older or have kids. Even you can't say that. You might regret doing what your doing on here in a few years and that is irrelevant of age and 10 years from now are you going to have raised your lower age limit to 35 because that's how old your children will be then? I know myself and how I view the swinging scene and what I do and it's been something I've been interested in since I was much younger than I am, before I even met Well hung and before I joined the site. All I know, like you, is that at this point in time I am happy doing what I am doing here and it does upset me when people group me into being naive just because of my age. " Wouldn't listen to anyone, half of them have got grandkids | |||
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"I have always been astounded at the amount of 18 to 25 year olds on here some of them with pages and pages of verifications .... I have children that age and have to agree and say that I'm pleased to have read there are people on here who also think that the tender age of 18 to 25 is too young for a site like this ...... young people surely should be out enjoying themselves the old fashioned way not on here racking up scores of bedpost notches "
You have children that age and they are the ones who shouldn't be on here, right, that's it! You folk are fucked in the head, seriously | |||
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"I do understand what you are saying but I think without having met me you can't say that I'll regret doing this when I'm older or have kids. Even you can't say that. You might regret doing what your doing on here in a few years and that is irrelevant of age and 10 years from now are you going to have raised your lower age limit to 35 because that's how old your children will be then? I know myself and how I view the swinging scene and what I do and it's been something I've been interested in since I was much younger than I am, before I even met Well hung and before I joined the site. All I know, like you, is that at this point in time I am happy doing what I am doing here and it does upset me when people group me into being naive just because of my age. " ask people what they regret and the vast majority will reply regretting something they didnt do rather than something they did . | |||
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"I do understand what you are saying but I think without having met me you can't say that I'll regret doing this when I'm older or have kids. Even you can't say that. You might regret doing what your doing on here in a few years and that is irrelevant of age and 10 years from now are you going to have raised your lower age limit to 35 because that's how old your children will be then? I know myself and how I view the swinging scene and what I do and it's been something I've been interested in since I was much younger than I am, before I even met Well hung and before I joined the site. All I know, like you, is that at this point in time I am happy doing what I am doing here and it does upset me when people group me into being naive just because of my age. ask people what they regret and the vast majority will reply regretting something they didnt do rather than something they did . " That's a fair point too Mr V | |||
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"My response wasn't intended to offend anyone I just don't think emotionally that young people of say 18 , 19 etc are equipped to deal with this kind of thing ..... perhaps society has played a part in this and some of the things I deal with in my work also ..... I would just say to any of the younger swingers be careful and stay safe ( see it's the mum in me I can't help it lol)" dont think any offence was taken but i understand what you mean . some girls on here arent mature enough or sensible enough and you fear tbey could easily be manipulated and find themselves in a tricky situation . but like everything else on here we cant do the whole sweeping generalisation as shown above and having met her at a social there are some young folks on here that can shame some of us older buggers in the way they handle themselves and fully in control of what they choose to do | |||
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"My response wasn't intended to offend anyone I just don't think emotionally that young people of say 18 , 19 etc are equipped to deal with this kind of thing ..... perhaps society has played a part in this and some of the things I deal with in my work also ..... I would just say to any of the younger swingers be careful and stay safe ( see it's the mum in me I can't help it lol) dont think any offence was taken but i understand what you mean . some girls on here arent mature enough or sensible enough and you fear tbey could easily be manipulated and find themselves in a tricky situation . but like everything else on here we cant do the whole sweeping generalisation as shown above and having met her at a social there are some young folks on here that can shame some of us older buggers in the way they handle themselves and fully in control of what they choose to do "Thanks villain and I do understand what you are saying of course but as my point before, I think you should meet and speak to me before judging whether I'm mature enough to handle swinging x | |||
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"I joined here when i was 23 and i belive its all about the way you conduct your self i have always trued to be polite and well mannered. "Exactly x | |||
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"I do understand what you are saying but I think without having met me you can't say that I'll regret doing this when I'm older or have kids. Even you can't say that. You might regret doing what your doing on here in a few years and that is irrelevant of age and 10 years from now are you going to have raised your lower age limit to 35 because that's how old your children will be then? I know myself and how I view the swinging scene and what I do and it's been something I've been interested in since I was much younger than I am, before I even met Well hung and before I joined the site. All I know, like you, is that at this point in time I am happy doing what I am doing here and it does upset me when people group me into being naive just because of my age. " Well said. Stands and claps. | |||
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" I would just say to any of the younger swingers be careful and stay safe ( see it's the mum in me I can't help it lol)" All swingers should be careful and stay safe
Have you chatted with young swingers before Leah? (Just a question) I think you would be pleasantly surprised at how screwed their heads are on their shoulders.
Personally, I think they should be given a chance and not all labelled as immature or not having their place on here. They are individuals.
They know what they want, like and like some of us, come on here not to be judged.
Belle is a lovely young lady more mature than some 30 years old women I have chatted to and met at socials. Same applies to the young men I have chatted to.
I have teen boys myself and I get the not playing with people close to your kids.
I think it depends as you say Leah if the mummy mode is on or off. Mine is off when am swinging.
Hope I make sense | |||
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" I would just say to any of the younger swingers be careful and stay safe ( see it's the mum in me I can't help it lol) All swingers should be careful and stay safe
Have you chatted with young swingers before Leah? (Just a question) I think you would be pleasantly surprised at how screwed their heads are on their shoulders.
Personally, I think they should be given a chance and not all labelled as immature or not having their place on here. They are individuals.
They know what they want, like and like some of us, come on here not to be judged.
Belle is a lovely young lady more mature than some 30 years old women I have chatted to and met at socials. Same applies to the young men I have chatted to.
I have teen boys myself and I get the not playing with people close to your kids.
I think it depends as you say Leah if the mummy mode is on or off. Mine is off when am swinging.
Hope I make sense "by young men , she means me | |||
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" I would just say to any of the younger swingers be careful and stay safe ( see it's the mum in me I can't help it lol) All swingers should be careful and stay safe
Have you chatted with young swingers before Leah? (Just a question) I think you would be pleasantly surprised at how screwed their heads are on their shoulders.
Personally, I think they should be given a chance and not all labelled as immature or not having their place on here. They are individuals.
They know what they want, like and like some of us, come on here not to be judged.
Belle is a lovely young lady more mature than some 30 years old women I have chatted to and met at socials. Same applies to the young men I have chatted to.
I have teen boys myself and I get the not playing with people close to your kids.
I think it depends as you say Leah if the mummy mode is on or off. Mine is off when am swinging.
Hope I make sense
by young men , she means me "Does she?? lol | |||
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" I would just say to any of the younger swingers be careful and stay safe ( see it's the mum in me I can't help it lol) All swingers should be careful and stay safe
Have you chatted with young swingers before Leah? (Just a question) I think you would be pleasantly surprised at how screwed their heads are on their shoulders.
Personally, I think they should be given a chance and not all labelled as immature or not having their place on here. They are individuals.
They know what they want, like and like some of us, come on here not to be judged.
Belle is a lovely young lady more mature than some 30 years old women I have chatted to and met at socials. Same applies to the young men I have chatted to.
I have teen boys myself and I get the not playing with people close to your kids.
I think it depends as you say Leah if the mummy mode is on or off. Mine is off when am swinging.
Hope I make sense
by young men , she means me
Does she?? lol "lol | |||
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" I would just say to any of the younger swingers be careful and stay safe ( see it's the mum in me I can't help it lol) All swingers should be careful and stay safe
Have you chatted with young swingers before Leah? (Just a question) I think you would be pleasantly surprised at how screwed their heads are on their shoulders.
Personally, I think they should be given a chance and not all labelled as immature or not having their place on here. They are individuals.
They know what they want, like and like some of us, come on here not to be judged.
Belle is a lovely young lady more mature than some 30 years old women I have chatted to and met at socials. Same applies to the young men I have chatted to.
I have teen boys myself and I get the not playing with people close to your kids.
I think it depends as you say Leah if the mummy mode is on or off. Mine is off when am swinging.
Hope I make sense "Awwww Max thank you x And yes everyone should stay safe and have the right to feel safe on here! I definitely feel safer in sex clubs than regular ones as too often have I had unwanted attention from guys that I just cannot shake, whereas in a sex club people are in general less aggressive and I know other around me would help me if I needed the help, as I have once needed in a club. I completely understand Leah and I'd love to get into more details with you on why I understand but the forum is certainly not the time nor place to! But believe me when I say I understand what you are saying x | |||
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"Perfect sense Max .... and your right there will be a majority of younger swingers on here that will be sensible however I've seen the verifications of some of the young girls stating they met in Tesco car park , meeting every night etc a different guy .... belle I suppose is in a more unique position as she does the clubs and is accompanied by her swinging partner who would have her best interests at heart .... I guess it's more the single young girls that perhaps have only been on the site for a month or so but have wracked up 25 veris those are the young girls I worry about .... x" lol I'd worry about them too! And that's an unfortunate representation to have come across! Also, again what maybe makes me even more "unique" for want of a better word is that hung is actually my partner in real life and has been for the past 2 years so not only do we come across this in the swinging world but also in day to day life! In general though I've found once people see us together and the chemistry between us then they are generally more accepting x | |||
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"Perfect sense Max .... and your right there will be a majority of younger swingers on here that will be sensible however I've seen the verifications of some of the young girls stating they met in Tesco car park , meeting every night etc a different guy .... belle I suppose is in a more unique position as she does the clubs and is accompanied by her swinging partner who would have her best interests at heart .... I guess it's more the single young girls that perhaps have only been on the site for a month or so but have wracked up 25 veris those are the young girls I worry about .... x" Yeah, I get you. I wouldn't call these girls swingers though! And what they are after is totally different from the young people I have chatted to. Totally understand what you mean about those profiles though! | |||
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"lol I'm not commenting any more on this thread I'm starting to sound like a right old fuddy duddy .... stay safe and lovely everyone xx" No at all Leah. You are you and all is good x | |||
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"lol I'm not commenting any more on this thread I'm starting to sound like a right old fuddy duddy .... stay safe and lovely everyone xx" No not at all, and I'm sorry if I have made you feel this way. I just wanted to express my side that's all. It's good for me too to hear your side as well so thank you for explaining your views x | |||
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"No no no Belle you have said nothing wrong ... as someone commented earlier on the thread it's been a very adult like conversation.... it's been a pleasure to chat with you and everyone else on this post . I certainly can't take the moral high ground and I just hope I didn't offend or upset anyone ..... there are a lot of really really lovely people on fab and should I ever manage along to a club then I would definitely come and say hi x ( in fact where's my old friend Mr Costa lol he keeps offering to take me) xx" Hmmm... indeed! hibernating may be lol | |||
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"No no no Belle you have said nothing wrong ... as someone commented earlier on the thread it's been a very adult like conversation.... it's been a pleasure to chat with you and everyone else on this post . I certainly can't take the moral high ground and I just hope I didn't offend or upset anyone ..... there are a lot of really really lovely people on fab and should I ever manage along to a club then I would definitely come and say hi x ( in fact where's my old friend Mr Costa lol he keeps offering to take me) xx" Come to after 8 tonight. It is always nice to meet nice people X (Mr) | |||
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"No no no Belle you have said nothing wrong ... as someone commented earlier on the thread it's been a very adult like conversation.... it's been a pleasure to chat with you and everyone else on this post . I certainly can't take the moral high ground and I just hope I didn't offend or upset anyone ..... there are a lot of really really lovely people on fab and should I ever manage along to a club then I would definitely come and say hi x ( in fact where's my old friend Mr Costa lol he keeps offering to take me) xx Come to after 8 tonight. It is always nice to meet nice people X (Mr)" I wondered if belle would let you on the thread Mr
But seriously, maybe some of the younger members would do well with an older Fab buddy just to turn to for non-judgemental advice. Because sometimes they may have a choice and take the wrong route because of outside pressure.
Just a thought and not everyone needs it.
And just for the record....an exception could be made for you belle as you've got a mature head in those young shoulders so you could buddy too | |||
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"No no no Belle you have said nothing wrong ... as someone commented earlier on the thread it's been a very adult like conversation.... it's been a pleasure to chat with you and everyone else on this post . I certainly can't take the moral high ground and I just hope I didn't offend or upset anyone ..... there are a lot of really really lovely people on fab and should I ever manage along to a club then I would definitely come and say hi x ( in fact where's my old friend Mr Costa lol he keeps offering to take me) xx Come to after 8 tonight. It is always nice to meet nice people X (Mr) I wondered if belle would let you on the thread Mr
But seriously, maybe some of the younger members would do well with an older Fab buddy just to turn to for non-judgemental advice. Because sometimes they may have a choice and take the wrong route because of outside pressure.
Just a thought and not everyone needs it.
And just for the record....an exception could be made for you belle as you've got a mature head in those young shoulders so you could buddy too "lol I'd be a great buddy  | |||
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" But seriously, maybe some of the younger members would do well with an older Fab buddy just to turn to for non-judgemental advice. " And I have done so for a lovely young lad that used to use the forum. He's left the site now as no one would talk to him because of his age! And that's talking!!!
We have chatted about various stuff and I have also put him in touch with another young lovely guy I have chatted to couple times at Cjs so they could buddy up!!!
And it wasn't the mummy mode! Just the being kind mode!
No harm in chatting, advising, sharing experiences.
For me, Fab is also a site for that
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" But seriously, maybe some of the younger members would do well with an older Fab buddy just to turn to for non-judgemental advice. And I have done so for a lovely young lad that used to use the forum. He's left the site now as no one would talk to him because of his age! And that's talking!!!
We have chatted about various stuff and I have also put him in touch with another young lovely guy I have chatted to couple times at Cjs so they could buddy up!!!
And it wasn't the mummy mode! Just the being kind mode!
No harm in chatting, advising, sharing experiences.
For me, Fab is also a site for that
"I've done it too...not just for a younger member either. Males, females and couples. I'm always here if anyone needs any advice. Even if it seems really stupid to most, when you're new there's no such thing as a stupid question | |||
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" But seriously, maybe some of the younger members would do well with an older Fab buddy just to turn to for non-judgemental advice. And I have done so for a lovely young lad that used to use the forum. He's left the site now as no one would talk to him because of his age! And that's talking!!!
We have chatted about various stuff and I have also put him in touch with another young lovely guy I have chatted to couple times at Cjs so they could buddy up!!!
And it wasn't the mummy mode! Just the being kind mode!
No harm in chatting, advising, sharing experiences.
For me, Fab is also a site for that
I've done it too...not just for a younger member either. Males, females and couples. I'm always here if anyone needs any advice. Even if it seems really stupid to most, when you're new there's no such thing as a stupid question " I have also given advice on totally random stuff... nowt to do with swinging lol | |||
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" I have also given advice on totally random stuff... nowt to do with swinging lol "But that's part and parcel of swinging in my view. You make friends. You socialise. You have conversations about 'normal' everyday things. You help each other out. Sex is great but it doesn't have to happen with everyone I talk to or meet.
Anyway, sorry OP, we got sidetracked. My apologies  | |||
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"I do understand what you are saying but I think without having met me you can't say that I'll regret doing this when I'm older or have kids. Even you can't say that. You might regret doing what your doing on here in a few years and that is irrelevant of age and 10 years from now are you going to have raised your lower age limit to 35 because that's how old your children will be then? I know myself and how I view the swinging scene and what I do and it's been something I've been interested in since I was much younger than I am, before I even met Well hung and before I joined the site. All I know, like you, is that at this point in time I am happy doing what I am doing here and it does upset me when people group me into being naive just because of my age. Wouldn't listen to anyone, half of them have got grandkids" Surely not!! There should be a maximum age of 50 too then. Kick the old duffers out! Blethering skites! I'm doing my bit by moving my bath chair nearer the door every day. Another week and I'll be on the fire escape and heading for the blissful release I deserve. But enough of my incontinence... For sure, anyone of the appropriate age can use the site. How it is viewed and experienced though is a very individual matter. Maturity as has often been said on here doesn't always come with age! Safety and vulnerability are issues of concern for ALL. It is possible in this lifestyle to be exploited no matter what one's age. However, i still think at 18 years old a swinging site shouldn't even be a consideration. | |||
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