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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Maybe opening pandora's box, but here goes anyway lol...

Has the time now come for us to see what we are really made of as a nation and stand on our own??

What do you think?

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By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago

more north lincs than mids!

No no no no no no no!

I think it's the worst thing that can happen to Scotland.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

we could never survive on our own now unfortunate but true

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By *omaMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I dont think Scotlands population is large enough to support itself.

Revenue wouldnt wouldnt amount to anything like what is needed for full independance without going cap in hand to Brussels.

Its a NO from me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I used to have all the Economic figures at hand comparing Scotland as an Independant Nation compared to other similar nations in EUROPE of similar size....

We are more than capable of matching, Luxembourg, Switzerland, etc in any economic climate.....

When you take the GDP of the UK and break it down between the 4 nations that make up the Union, the only one operating at a profit is Scotland.....

Now if we kept our revenue at home instead of giving it to Westminster we would operate more freely and would become even richer for it.

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By *omaMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

ok, point taken but have you taken into account losing the multi millions handed to Scotland from Westminster annually?

Would losing this share of the Westminster pot still leave the Scots in a favourable position?

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By *stonishCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh

ghreat idea if we would slash industrial rates and get more company's coming to scotland but dont know if the big fish (salmond) being polite, really has the brains to work it all out and do it properly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe opening pandora's box, but here goes anyway lol...

Has the time now come for us to see what we are really made of as a nation and stand on our own??

What do you think?"
wont happen an never will happen

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By *omaMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

It would mean rebuilding The Big Wall at Carlisle again....and possibly passport control being set up LOL.

Us English dont want just anyone entering ya know LOL LOL

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By *empnbunkCouple
over a year ago

south coast

NO no no would spell disaster for scotland if it was to happen i'd be the first moving south we're about 40-50 yrs too late for full independence

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I'm happy either way.

Don't have strong feelings, really.

But the more I hear people talking the place down and saying we're too poor blah blah, the more tempted I am to say "up yours".

Heart probably says yes, head probably says don't know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've always hoped and believed it would happen.In this global world, Scotland has so many of the things that healthy nations need- resources, manpower, scientific backbase, proud history etc. I am in no way political but I really believe it will come about. I suspect as much by default than anything else, but, hey,so what?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it really depressing when the only argument is "we are too small to make it on our on" or "we are not good enough to stand alone" does that mean that Denmark or Norway, comprable to Scotland, should become part of Sweden? Belgium should become part of France? Switzerland should give up it's independance to Germany? All these countries are comprable in size to Scotland but without the same natural resources that we have. The people of Scotland should have pride in their history and belief in themselves as a nation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I find it really depressing when the only argument is "we are too small to make it on our on" or "we are not good enough to stand alone" does that mean that Denmark or Norway, comprable to Scotland, should become part of Sweden? Belgium should become part of France? Switzerland should give up it's independance to Germany? All these countries are comprable in size to Scotland but without the same natural resources that we have. The people of Scotland should have pride in their history and belief in themselves as a nation."

Had Salmond chosen to compare us with Belgium or Switzerland, that'd have been one thing.

He chose, for fairly obvious reasons, to seek to align Scotland's future economic future with those of the self-styled Arc of Prosperity with Iceland and Ireland.

It's no secret just how badly those two nations have fared in the last few years and it comes as no surprise that they're known as the Arc of Insolvency.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In 1981, when i was 16, leaft school, Scotland would of been the place i would loved to have gotten a proper job, i had to go to England for it!

If it could'nt do that then, love to know of any guarantees that come with being Independant now?

I know its a very simplistic point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

NO

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Political debate on a swinging site... am gonna log on to SNP.com to see if they have a swinging to the left section

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Great film.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In 1981, when i was 16, leaft school, Scotland would of been the place i would loved to have gotten a proper job, i had to go to England for it!

If it could'nt do that then, love to know of any guarantees that come with being Independant now?

I know its a very simplistic point."

Not only are there no guarantees the Herald today carries a report

"An independent Scotland could find itself with a national debt of £110 billion, according to an economic think tank.

The Institute of Economic Affairs said Scotland would shoulder a "very severe" public debt burden.

Richard Wellings, deputy editorial director at the institute, insisted urgent steps would be needed to curb public spending to stop an independent Scotland becoming like Greece or Portugal which both have huge sovereign debts.

According to official figures, UK national debt at the end of 2010 was £1,106 billion. Dr Wellings argues that Scotland would have to take a share if this if left the Union. This share, which he based on Scotland`s allocation of public spending, could be as high as £110 billion."

Now, The Institute of Economic Affairs may well have an agenda of their own but, if only to maintain any credibility, their figures can't be too far out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"ok, point taken but have you taken into account losing the multi millions handed to Scotland from Westminster annually?

Would losing this share of the Westminster pot still leave the Scots in a favourable position?"

Personally I would vote YES YES YES YES. Scotland gets back less that what is sends to Westminster. As Kaisho we are the only nation in the UK that Scotland runs at a profit, Hell we got our own laws so why not be a independent country AGAIN

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"ok, point taken but have you taken into account losing the multi millions handed to Scotland from Westminster annually?

Would losing this share of the Westminster pot still leave the Scots in a favourable position?

Personally I would vote YES YES YES YES. Scotland gets back less that what is sends to Westminster......... "

That's an oft repeated claim but nobody has yet been able to provide independent proof.

If you have it, or can point to it, I'd be delighted to see it ........................ but I won't be holding my breath.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have studied this issue at uni (don't worry, i not always that boring!!!).

I think the priority of the new SNP government is to gain further devolution for scotland and get a national insurance system similar to northern ireland in place, where every pound given paid in NI stays in Scotland. This would help prove that an independent Scotland is viable economically.

I still have reservations on the independence question, as I don't feel issues such as defence and levels of potential taxation have be adequately answered. I feel Scotland would have to remain as part of the Commonwealth, but what would happen to the money taken at Royal residences in Scotland???

Anyway, that my say on independence...I could've gone on for far longer, but have tried to keep it succinct!

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By *nTCouple
over a year ago

funland

i have voted snp since the age of 18 and am a member of the party. westminster like to scare us all into believing we wouldnt make it on our own. scotland puts more into the uk than we get back in revenue. our oil (which wont run out in a few years) for a starter brings in a huge amount of revenue. Am the dughter of a soldier so definately not anti military but dont agree with the money we spend on things like trident, neither do the snp.

As a nurse in the nhs i also have to point out that with the limited devolved power our parliament has, we have better terms and conditions, a better minimum wage, so whilst westminster have decided to give us 54 million quid less just for nhs lothian, never mind any other health service in scotland, the snp government have guaranteed no compulsory redundancies.

whatsay did scotland have in the bailing out of the bankers - none, the poll tax - none and the list is endless.

Alec salmond is one of the most intelligent politicians we have and he can back up his claims that scotland could make it on our own.

all we have to do is be brave.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i have voted snp since the age of 18 and am a member of the party. westminster like to scare us all into believing we wouldnt make it on our own. scotland puts more into the uk than we get back in revenue. our oil (which wont run out in a few years) for a starter brings in a huge amount of revenue. Am the dughter of a soldier so definately not anti military but dont agree with the money we spend on things like trident, neither do the snp.

As a nurse in the nhs i also have to point out that with the limited devolved power our parliament has, we have better terms and conditions, a better minimum wage, so whilst westminster have decided to give us 54 million quid less just for nhs lothian, never mind any other health service in scotland, the snp government have guaranteed no compulsory redundancies.

whatsay did scotland have in the bailing out of the bankers - none, the poll tax - none and the list is endless.

Alec salmond is one of the most intelligent politicians we have and he can back up his claims that scotland could make it on our own.

all we have to do is be brave....."

Health is a wholly devolved issue and can't be split into 'better conditions' v 'Westminster cuts'. Either Holyrood or Westminster is reponsible for both.

Any Westminster reduction in NHS spending needn't be passed on to to Health Boards and Holyrood has absolute discretion to spend any NHS money it receives any way it chooses - that's what's allowed free prescriptions in Scotland whilst people still have to pay in England.

Incidentally, the fact MSPs, High Court Judges, Rangers and Celtic footballers, hospital consultants getting free prescritions tends to make one wonder if it's really such a sensible use of scare resources but if, as you suggest, our increasingly corpulent First Minister is an intelligent man, he'll have a good excuse for that.

You say he can back up "his claims that Scotland could make it on our own" - so why doesn't he?

Eck comes across as one of those wee nyaffs you see in most streets and bars in Scotland. He's got a chip on both shoulders and is determined to pick a fight with someone - anyone and then, when that someone gets fed up with his snash and takes him outside and kicks his cunt in, he greets about being bullied.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nicolas Sturgeon. - yes or no?! Lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nicola even. I hate autocorrect at times.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This was moored a fair bit whilst I was at uni and one key thing that hasn't been raised yet is the position with Europe. If Scotland became independent then there is no guarantee that it would be part of the EU. This would mean a loss of subsidies, restriction on trade, tariffs etc. And Scotland certainly will not get the 3300 miles of prime oil fields that the English 'negotiated'. I hope that it never happens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Nicolas Sturgeon. - yes or no?! Lol"

They're keeping her job behind the make-up counter in Boots open for her.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This was moored a fair bit whilst I was at uni and one key thing that hasn't been raised yet is the position with Europe. If Scotland became independent then there is no guarantee that it would be part of the EU. This would mean a loss of subsidies, restriction on trade, tariffs etc. And Scotland certainly will not get the 3300 miles of prime oil fields that the English 'negotiated'. I hope that it never happens."

Salmond loves Europe.

He loves Europe so much he'd rather the ultimate court of criminal appeal from Scotland was in Brussels rather than the Supreme Court in London.

The Brussels court has no Scottish judges. The Supreme Court has two Scottish judges.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Och, who votes with their head anyway? Most of the time the public vote wit their heart. A few factoids never got in the way

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Och, who votes with their head anyway? Most of the time the public vote wit their heart. A few factoids never got in the way "

That's what's happened in Eire. People ignored the facts and are now facing eviction from their homes.

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By *nTCouple
over a year ago

funland

this debate could rage on forever. but have to comment again on the health issue. i negotiate with NHS Lothian Board on our budget and whilst health is devolved Westminster still gives us our spends and our parliament decide on how they should be spent - so if they dont give us enough in the first place then we are short. As for free precriptions, totally agree with the high paid scenario but i was thinking about the low paid workers such as domestics and porters (and there are way more low paid workers). The NHS is meant to be free for all, including your medicine!! I also think it is absolutely the point to compare our better working conditions in the Scottish NHS as oppsed to the rest of the UK - thats the whole crux of the argument. We have the better conditions because a devolved Scottish Government had the power to agree to them!!!

As for backing up his claims Mr Salmond has consistently backed them up with fact - if other people then choose to distort the facts then thats politics. My personal opinion of Mr Salmond is that he is a very astute politician who loves his country and has done more for Scotland than any other government in a long long time. but then that is my personal opinion.

As for Nicola Sturgeon, as a union rep in the NHS i would say YES. A health minister who sticks to her promises and recognises the role of the Trade Unions and its members and treats them with respect. Something i am afraid which is sadly lacking in the rest of our political parties. Some on here will say 'Eck' canny back his manifesto up and some will say he can - i say he can and has

Anyway everyone on this site will have a different viewpoint, - a wee bit like fab itself where we all have our own sexual preferences lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The millions we receive from Westminster is in actual fact only about 30% of what we pay into Westminster coffers in the first place....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You should not be against Independance, based on material gain for Scotland, but because its the right thing to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lets face it, David Cameron is the UK Prime Minister whether we like it or not..

Like all TOries before him he has NO Agenda for Scotland....They are not interested in us......They will however, kill what is left of the NHS in Scotland, Schools, Roads etc etc etc ....as they need the funds to finance England......

If we were to go independant,,,no more paying into Westminster,,no more receiving back a pittence from the Barton Fund to run our Nation....

We would be left to run things on our own without interference from Cameron and his Tory worshippers of Lower England...

Everything the Scottish Government said it would do over the past 4 years has been done....Everything Alex Salmond has promised to deliver he has nad more....

NOW is the time to put it to the test and go for the referendum for Independance...Lets face it, better the devil we know in Salmond than the scheming Tories who have NO interest in what happens outside England.......

I can remember the late 70's when this reared its head and Thatcher had just come into power...........

We got the referendum...we voted for Scotland...and SHE overturned the Vote......

I also remember a debate on political radio station at the time interviewing Senior Tory Backbenchers, What if Scotland win??

The answer was clear at that time......

" Heaven Help England,,,,without Scotland and its donations to Westminster... The Union would collapse as England CANNOT go out on its own"

Hear we are 30 odd years later and nothing has changed....They are still fucked without what we, The Welsh and the Irish put into their coffers.....

They need the Union more than we do.....

Lets get the fuck out of it before Cameron ruins us the way Thatcher did....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When the referendum comes round we would do well to remember JFKs words, think not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country, so lets get stuck in and make Scotland a place that justifies our pride. Andy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The millions we receive from Westminster is in actual fact only about 30% of what we pay into Westminster coffers in the first place...."

I see plenty of 'actual facts' being claimed but few, if any, actual numbers.

How many millions do we 'receive from Westminster' and how much do 'we actually pay into Westminster coffers'?

More importantly what do the figures you'll quote, if indeed you bother, include?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The big problem is Mr Salmond is not telling the people of Scotland how much of the UK debt we we would need to take on.

Back to the small country thing ,,,,how would we manage to pay our share of the debt without impacting on every day services !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" ..........

If we were to go independant,,,no more paying into Westminster,,no more receiving back a pittence from the Barton Fund to run our Nation....

...................."

What is the Barton Fund and what relevance is it to this discussion?

Do you mean the Barnett Formula?

What relevance is that to discussion of independence and do you really think it's a pittance?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The big problem is Mr Salmond is not telling the people of Scotland how much of the UK debt we we would need to take on.

Back to the small country thing ,,,,how would we manage to pay our share of the debt without impacting on every day services !!!"

He's not telling the people of Scotland anything at all. He's relying on pulling the wool over their eyes hoping they don't notice and will allow themselves to be herded, like the sheep they sometimes are, over a precipice from which there's no return.

Just today it's been announced that the cost of the Beauly to Denny power line will cost c £600,000,000, about twice the original estimated price - all to get Eck's much acclaimed renewable energy from where it's generated (the North Westish) to where it's needed (the central belt).

That's before the technology has been proven to be available 24x7 and capable of meeting peak demand.

Who'll pay for this? Electricity consumers. There's already a thread (somewhere on Fab) about the Scottish Power fuel price hike.

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By *omaMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

[Removed by poster at 16/06/11 17:37:13]

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By *omaMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

£600m?..... going on their past record of "estimates"... Holyrood (10 times its estimate?)....Edinburgh's tram system (£££m's over budget)......Try doubling that £600m and we may get close to the real cost.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"£600m?..... going on their past record of "estimates"... Holyrood (10 times its estimate?)....Edinburgh's tram system (£££m's over budget)......Try doubling that £600m and we may get close to the real cost."

I don't doubt you're right and that, over time, the cost will rise further - but I'd hate to be accused of scaremongering

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By *omaMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

i prefer the word "realistic" to "scaremongering" lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i prefer the word "realistic" to "scaremongering" lol "

We won't argue over semantics but it has to be remembered the pylon scheme IS IN ADDITION TO the additional Forth Crossing, reducing the train journey time between Glasgow and Edinburgh to 37 minutes, finishing Edinburgh's tram project + all the everyday stuff like replacing hospitals and schools, building new houses and power stations ........... the list of 'promises' goes on and on.

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By *nTCouple
over a year ago

funland


"£600m?..... going on their past record of "estimates"... Holyrood (10 times its estimate?)....Edinburgh's tram system (£££m's over budget)......Try doubling that £600m and we may get close to the real cost."

holyrood - a labour governments faux pas and the trams, a labour government's faxu pas. ones the snp administration have been left with. as i said we could argue about this forever and no political party is perfect. i, for one who puts scotland and its people at the top of it's agenda and not at the bottom of the rubbish pile as a westminster one does time and time again.

its been a good debate but i aint contributing any more - think i have had more than my say.

one final point to mr voyeur - a sheep i am not, an intelligent woman i am; so am assuming that your opinion of eck is just your opinion.......one you are entitled to but one that differs from mine. but that doesnt make your viewpoint any more or less valid than mine.

i have evidenced that the snp have delivered on their manifesto promises and without an overall majority, so am looking forward to this term of office where they wont be impeded in bringing about much needed changes in our country.

i have been a nurse in the nhs under the tories, labour, and now the snp. the only party that has publicly denounced pfi and put their money where their mouth is by bringing a lot of our services back in-house. point of interest - the new royal infirmary in edinburgh, agreed to by a labour government, built using private sector money and owned by a group of 10 banks (some of the ones we bailed out) rent it to us at the princely sum of 52 million pounds per year and we are bound by a contract that runs for 105 years - and thats 4 million more rent than last year!!

one of the many reasons i will vote for independance

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside


"i prefer the word "realistic" to "scaremongering" lol

We won't argue over semantics but it has to be remembered the pylon scheme IS IN ADDITION TO the additional Forth Crossing, reducing the train journey time between Glasgow and Edinburgh to 37 minutes, finishing Edinburgh's tram project + all the everyday stuff like replacing hospitals and schools, building new houses and power stations ........... the list of 'promises' goes on and on."

As I'm someone who is involved in the building of the new schools, affordable housing, etc that you have quoted above I can confirm that, in this area anyway, the SNP have lived up to their promises and they are being built as we speak there were also quite a few completed during the SNP's previous term in Government.

All without PPP (pushed as the way forward by the previous Labour Government) and the 25 year contracts that end up costing around 3 times as much as standard tendering procedures

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"£600m?..... going on their past record of "estimates"... Holyrood (10 times its estimate?)....Edinburgh's tram system (£££m's over budget)......Try doubling that £600m and we may get close to the real cost.

holyrood - a labour governments faux pas and the trams, a labour government's faxu pas. ones the snp administration have been left with. as i said we could argue about this forever and no political party is perfect. i, for one who puts scotland and its people at the top of it's agenda and not at the bottom of the rubbish pile as a westminster one does time and time again.

its been a good debate but i aint contributing any more - think i have had more than my say.

one final point to mr voyeur - a sheep i am not, an intelligent woman i am; so am assuming that your opinion of eck is just your opinion.......one you are entitled to but one that differs from mine. but that doesnt make your viewpoint any more or less valid than mine.

i have evidenced that the snp have delivered on their manifesto promises and without an overall majority, so am looking forward to this term of office where they wont be impeded in bringing about much needed changes in our country.

i have been a nurse in the nhs under the tories, labour, and now the snp. the only party that has publicly denounced pfi and put their money where their mouth is by bringing a lot of our services back in-house. point of interest - the new royal infirmary in edinburgh, agreed to by a labour government, built using private sector money and owned by a group of 10 banks (some of the ones we bailed out) rent it to us at the princely sum of 52 million pounds per year and we are bound by a contract that runs for 105 years - and thats 4 million more rent than last year!!

one of the many reasons i will vote for independance"

I'm sorry, but not surprised, you've given up.

Just, on a matter of fact, the trams fiasco was begun at the insistence of the City of Edinburgh Council - under guess which complexion of administration

Whilst we're here - I've seen no evidence from your contributions of evidence of the Tartan Tories - the people who gave the country Thatcher - delivering their manifesto promises. Selective amnesia perhaps?

RIE? Would you rather be languishing in that dump north of The Meadows? I doubt it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i prefer the word "realistic" to "scaremongering" lol

We won't argue over semantics but it has to be remembered the pylon scheme IS IN ADDITION TO the additional Forth Crossing, reducing the train journey time between Glasgow and Edinburgh to 37 minutes, finishing Edinburgh's tram project + all the everyday stuff like replacing hospitals and schools, building new houses and power stations ........... the list of 'promises' goes on and on.

As I'm someone who is involved in the building of the new schools, affordable housing, etc that you have quoted above I can confirm that, in this area anyway, the SNP have lived up to their promises and they are being built as we speak there were also quite a few completed during the SNP's previous term in Government.

All without PPP (pushed as the way forward by the previous Labour Government) and the 25 year contracts that end up costing around 3 times as much as standard tendering procedures "

New schools, colleges and social housing are being built as we speak but it's mostly contracts agreed under a Labour/ Lib Dem administration.

A little reported aspect of Alex Neil's housing policy is that the Housing Action Grant has been reduced to an average of £40,000 per two bed flat and that, coupled with land prices, makes new build social housing - even on brown-field sites - almost unaffordable.

Add that to the Tartan Tories - the people who brought the country Thatcherism - abandoned £2,000 support pledge for first time buyers and it's no wonder the housing sector has gone to hell in a handcart.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside


"i prefer the word "realistic" to "scaremongering" lol

We won't argue over semantics but it has to be remembered the pylon scheme IS IN ADDITION TO the additional Forth Crossing, reducing the train journey time between Glasgow and Edinburgh to 37 minutes, finishing Edinburgh's tram project + all the everyday stuff like replacing hospitals and schools, building new houses and power stations ........... the list of 'promises' goes on and on.

As I'm someone who is involved in the building of the new schools, affordable housing, etc that you have quoted above I can confirm that, in this area anyway, the SNP have lived up to their promises and they are being built as we speak there were also quite a few completed during the SNP's previous term in Government.

All without PPP (pushed as the way forward by the previous Labour Government) and the 25 year contracts that end up costing around 3 times as much as standard tendering procedures

New schools, colleges and social housing are being built as we speak but it's mostly contracts agreed under a Labour/ Lib Dem administration.

A little reported aspect of Alex Neil's housing policy is that the Housing Action Grant has been reduced to an average of £40,000 per two bed flat and that, coupled with land prices, makes new build social housing - even on brown-field sites - almost unaffordable.

Add that to the Tartan Tories - the people who brought the country Thatcherism - abandoned £2,000 support pledge for first time buyers and it's no wonder the housing sector has gone to hell in a handcart."

I won't go into detail, as it is boring to do so on a swinging site, but like I said I am dealing with the above on a daily basis and have to say you are wrong! It isn't contracts agreed under Labour/ Lib Dem administrations, they were and still are being agreed with the SNP administration in Edinburgh.

Just because you think you are right on this, it doesn't make it true. I will say again - I'm dealing with this (the planning/ building of them) tomorrow, next week, next month, etc so I should know what I am talking about!

I will, however, wait for you to come back again to try and say it is Labour who is agreeing to all of the new buildings.

PS - I have no leaning towards any political party as they are all as bad as each other but I can see with my own eyes what the SNP have and are doing with regards to new schools and housing up here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i prefer the word "realistic" to "scaremongering" lol

We won't argue over semantics but it has to be remembered the pylon scheme IS IN ADDITION TO the additional Forth Crossing, reducing the train journey time between Glasgow and Edinburgh to 37 minutes, finishing Edinburgh's tram project + all the everyday stuff like replacing hospitals and schools, building new houses and power stations ........... the list of 'promises' goes on and on.

As I'm someone who is involved in the building of the new schools, affordable housing, etc that you have quoted above I can confirm that, in this area anyway, the SNP have lived up to their promises and they are being built as we speak there were also quite a few completed during the SNP's previous term in Government.

All without PPP (pushed as the way forward by the previous Labour Government) and the 25 year contracts that end up costing around 3 times as much as standard tendering procedures

New schools, colleges and social housing are being built as we speak but it's mostly contracts agreed under a Labour/ Lib Dem administration.

A little reported aspect of Alex Neil's housing policy is that the Housing Action Grant has been reduced to an average of £40,000 per two bed flat and that, coupled with land prices, makes new build social housing - even on brown-field sites - almost unaffordable.

Add that to the Tartan Tories - the people who brought the country Thatcherism - abandoned £2,000 support pledge for first time buyers and it's no wonder the housing sector has gone to hell in a handcart.

I won't go into detail, as it is boring to do so on a swinging site, but like I said I am dealing with the above on a daily basis and have to say you are wrong! It isn't contracts agreed under Labour/ Lib Dem administrations, they were and still are being agreed with the SNP administration in Edinburgh.

Just because you think you are right on this, it doesn't make it true. I will say again - I'm dealing with this (the planning/ building of them) tomorrow, next week, next month, etc so I should know what I am talking about!

I will, however, wait for you to come back again to try and say it is Labour who is agreeing to all of the new buildings.

PS - I have no leaning towards any political party as they are all as bad as each other but I can see with my own eyes what the SNP have and are doing with regards to new schools and housing up here. "

I would't want you to be bored, especially on a school night, but I'm happy to continue this whenever you consider Scotland's future to be more important than your beauty sleep.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside


"

I would't want you to be bored, especially on a school night, but I'm happy to continue this whenever you consider Scotland's future to be more important than your beauty sleep."

Eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I would't want you to be bored, especially on a school night, but I'm happy to continue this whenever you consider Scotland's future to be more important than your beauty sleep.

Eh? "

G'nite Brian.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside


"

I would't want you to be bored, especially on a school night, but I'm happy to continue this whenever you consider Scotland's future to be more important than your beauty sleep.

Eh?

G'nite Brian.

"

You off to bed Tav?

I'm not but G'nite to your good self, I like it when a Politician knows when to admit defeat and retire to under his duvet to sleep on things!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I would't want you to be bored, especially on a school night, but I'm happy to continue this whenever you consider Scotland's future to be more important than your beauty sleep.

Eh?

G'nite Brian.

You off to bed Tav?

I'm not but G'nite to your good self, I like it when a Politician knows when to admit defeat and retire to under his duvet to sleep on things! "

Nuttaataw. It's Thursday - Friday and, as most folks know - THE night of the week at certain outdoor entertainment site around Glasgow.

As for a duvet. I wouldn't have one in the house.

I plead guilty to the retiring charge but only because of the MOD pension and a few wee bits and pieces I pick up elsewhere.

As for a Politician (with a capital P). I got close to the SS Politician whilst diving off Eriskay some years ago.

Politicans (politicians with a lower case p) are a different world to mine.

I don't sleep well on dry land. Everything's too steady.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

ermmm ok - I did nod off reading that so I can only apologise, but to be fair I was needing something to make me sleepy as I do need to be up early for work to carry on planning all these new schools and affordable houses!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the only thing preventing Scotland becoming independant are its people, held back by other effete people telling them they couldn't possibly do what lots of sovereign countries with five million people do - run their own affairs, control their destiny as much as they possibly can, we used to be so forward thinking, progressive, creative, inventive and radical - we need to grow a pair and man up! By the way, the sexy swinging, Danes, Norwegians and Finns have populations of around five million. Rant over!

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By *illiam19Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

we need to learn to stand on our own 2 feet

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By *nTCouple
over a year ago

funland


"£600m?..... going on their past record of "estimates"... Holyrood (10 times its estimate?)....Edinburgh's tram system (£££m's over budget)......Try doubling that £600m and we may get close to the real cost.

holyrood - a labour governments faux pas and the trams, a labour government's faxu pas. ones the snp administration have been left with. as i said we could argue about this forever and no political party is perfect. i, for one who puts scotland and its people at the top of it's agenda and not at the bottom of the rubbish pile as a westminster one does time and time again.

its been a good debate but i aint contributing any more - think i have had more than my say.

one final point to mr voyeur - a sheep i am not, an intelligent woman i am; so am assuming that your opinion of eck is just your opinion.......one you are entitled to but one that differs from mine. but that doesnt make your viewpoint any more or less valid than mine.

i have evidenced that the snp have delivered on their manifesto promises and without an overall majority, so am looking forward to this term of office where they wont be impeded in bringing about much needed changes in our country.

i have been a nurse in the nhs under the tories, labour, and now the snp. the only party that has publicly denounced pfi and put their money where their mouth is by bringing a lot of our services back in-house. point of interest - the new royal infirmary in edinburgh, agreed to by a labour government, built using private sector money and owned by a group of 10 banks (some of the ones we bailed out) rent it to us at the princely sum of 52 million pounds per year and we are bound by a contract that runs for 105 years - and thats 4 million more rent than last year!!

one of the many reasons i will vote for independance

I'm sorry, but not surprised, you've given up.

Just, on a matter of fact, the trams fiasco was begun at the insistence of the City of Edinburgh Council - under guess which complexion of administration

Whilst we're here - I've seen no evidence from your contributions of evidence of the Tartan Tories - the people who gave the country Thatcher - delivering their manifesto promises. Selective amnesia perhaps?

RIE? Would you rather be languishing in that dump north of The Meadows? I doubt it."

nope the minute you start to become derogatory i choose not to contribute. who am i to know better......

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