FabSwingers.com forum: Alex Salmond

By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I must say that I am not impressed that Wee Eck has resigned. I did post last night that he would do one of two things i.e. Get Brown in and get to work for the people of Scotland or resign.

I really did not think he would resign, I thought he was a much stronger person than that.

I wish he would have stayed and worked with the various parties to move Scotland forward.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

all the best to him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good luck to him

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By *w84TV/TS
over a year ago

Scotland didn't buy what he was selling yesterday.

Why should he stay if he feels he's done all he can? He's still seeing out his term as an MSP for his constituents.

It would be funny if his resignation meant early elections for Scotland - fun to see where those chips fall.

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By *nonandyMan
over a year ago

Near Glasgow

Good luck to him its funny until recently I didn't like him that much but the last month or so av really started to respect him

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By *w84TV/TS
over a year ago

"Good luck to him its funny until recently I didn't like him that much but the last month or so av really started to respect him

When I was living in Edinburgh I didn't like the SNP at all, and Nicola Sturgeon's hair used to drive me mad.

But then I realised that the independence movement wasn't about the individuals but about the vision.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

It is the right thing for him to do. Independence was his life's dream and it has now bypassed him.

He will never be the same political leader again so the snp need to decide which path they want to take.

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By *lue4youCouple
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

Who can blame him, history has shown that Westminster can't be trusted

Kick me once... Shame on you, Kick me twice shame on me. Seems the sheep never learn

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Who can blame him, history has shown that Westminster can't be trusted

Kick me once... Shame on you, Kick me twice shame on me. Seems the sheep never learn"

Baa Baa baa

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By *lue4youCouple
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

The real loser in this is the kids that are gonna be born into poverty, in a land that could have been so rich, in a country once noted for it's moral fairness, that has somehow been lost in some cases on the No side, not due to true belief but due to the Me Me me I'm alright Jack fuck you ideology... mmm Thatcherism is still alive and well and breeding in our once proud land

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"The real loser in this is the kids that are gonna be born into poverty, in a land that could have been so rich, in a country once noted for it's moral fairness, that has somehow been lost in some cases on the No side, not due to true belief but due to the Me Me me I'm alright Jack fuck you ideology... mmm Thatcherism is still alive and well and breeding in our once proud land"

According to the result, more people disagreed with you than agreed. To infer that they're not patriotic Scots, don't care about the future or are selfish is just being a bad loser.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

Have to say though, Salmond is a very principled and skilful politician.

He was passionate about what he believed in and brough the SNP to heights they at one time could only have dreamed of.

Got to wish the guy well.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Since your posting this again I will say the same thing again. Norway, the milk and honey country with all that oil fund has 78000 children in poverty. It has risen from 5 to 8 percent since 2012. How can a country that has such great wealth, great services but still have 78000 kids in poverty? Not that good is it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I must say that I am not impressed that Wee Eck has resigned. I did post last night that he would do one of two things i.e. Get Brown in and get to work for the people of Scotland or resign.

I really did not think he would resign, I thought he was a much stronger person than that.

I wish he would have stayed and worked with the various parties to move Scotland forward.

"
maybe nicola sturgeon will be next

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I must say that I am not impressed that Wee Eck has resigned. I did post last night that he would do one of two things i.e. Get Brown in and get to work for the people of Scotland or resign.

I really did not think he would resign, I thought he was a much stronger person than that.

I wish he would have stayed and worked with the various parties to move Scotland forward.

maybe nicola sturgeon will be next

SNP need a strong leadership, the Scottish Gov need a strong leadership, remember they are in power for a few years yet. This is not the time to have someone weak in that office.

Whoever gets the job will have to work with all the other parties and lets get things back on track.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I must say that I am not impressed that Wee Eck has resigned. I did post last night that he would do one of two things i.e. Get Brown in and get to work for the people of Scotland or resign.

I really did not think he would resign, I thought he was a much stronger person than that.

I wish he would have stayed and worked with the various parties to move Scotland forward.

maybe nicola sturgeon will be next

SNP need a strong leadership, the Scottish Gov need a strong leadership, remember they are in power for a few years yet. This is not the time to have someone weak in that office.

Whoever gets the job will have to work with all the other parties and lets get things back on track.

I think their strongest line up might be Nicola Sturgeon as leader with Hamza Yousaf as deputy and keep Swinney where he is.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I think their strongest line up might be Nicola Sturgeon as leader with Hamza Yousaf as deputy and keep Swinney where he is."

That sounds not too bad. That means that the three main parties at Scottish Parliment will be run by women.....another first....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think their strongest line up might be Nicola Sturgeon as leader with Hamza Yousaf as deputy and keep Swinney where he is.

That sounds not too bad. That means that the three main parties at Scottish Parliment will be run by women.....another first...."

and the lib dems have a big girls blouse in charge

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I think their strongest line up might be Nicola Sturgeon as leader with Hamza Yousaf as deputy and keep Swinney where he is.

That sounds not too bad. That means that the three main parties at Scottish Parliment will be run by women.....another first....

and the lib dems have a big girls blouse in charge

But wait a minute three women in charge? YIKES! Thats something we should be worried about .... (Runs like hell for cover under the nearast table)

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By *gag001Couple
over a year ago

Glasgow

This is an interesting post, not something i get involved in very often. I was in Glasgow tonight, a city I'm immensely proud of. I was born and bred to defend everything about Glasgow. Not tonight, Alastair Darling said ' the silent have spoken'. What happened in MY city tonight didn't reflect that. Arrogance, aggression, intimidation, NOT the silent. I was brought up to defend free speech and the right of the individual to have an opinion, like most of my fellow citizens, an absolute tenet of democracy. Learn how to behave in a free society.....

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"This is an interesting post, not something i get involved in very often. I was in Glasgow tonight, a city I'm immensely proud of. I was born and bred to defend everything about Glasgow. Not tonight, Alastair Darling said ' the silent have spoken'. What happened in MY city tonight didn't reflect that. Arrogance, aggression, intimidation, NOT the silent. I was brought up to defend free speech and the right of the individual to have an opinion, like most of my fellow citizens, an absolute tenet of democracy. Learn how to behave in a free society....."

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

This is a time for reconciliation not division.

Wait and see what comes out go the problems in Glasgow City centre as it might not be locals causing the bother. All the public order trained cops were bussed into the city centre to deal with the problem.

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

I think their strongest line up might be Nicola Sturgeon as leader with Hamza Yousaf as deputy and keep Swinney where he is.

That sounds not too bad. That means that the three main parties at Scottish Parliment will be run by women.....another first...."

3 women leading 3 main parties in a parliament - not bad Scotland

Even the golf clubs are catching up too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think their strongest line up might be Nicola Sturgeon as leader with Hamza Yousaf as deputy and keep Swinney where he is.

That sounds not too bad. That means that the three main parties at Scottish Parliment will be run by women.....another first....

3 women leading 3 main parties in a parliament - not bad Scotland

Even the golf clubs are catching up too

They needed a cleaner though

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By *tormountCouple
over a year ago

Your Town

All the best to him but his legacy in my book will be:-

The guy who tried to split up the UK and succeeded in splitting Scotland.

These divisions will take months if not years to heal.

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow

According to the result, more people disagreed with you than agreed. To infer that they're not patriotic Scots, don't care about the future or are selfish is just being a bad loser."

And an insult!

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

Alec salmond,was by far the most capable,and skilled party leader in present day british politics.

Some people seem to think he was wrong in calling for a referendum on independence.

Strange when he,and his party have never ever hidden their commitment to an independent Scotland.

Even though he didn't have all the answers,

And with only a short window of opportunity,he had to act quickly,

or the chance would be lost.

Only his skills as politician,

with the odds so heavily stacked against him,

could have taken the vote so close.

It would have been to Scotlands benefit,had he stayed.

It may surprise some,

this is the opinion of one no voter.

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By *eesa_ukTV/TS
over a year ago

Motherwell

[Removed by poster at 20/09/14 21:37:54]

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By *eesa_ukTV/TS
over a year ago

Motherwell

If samond had been in the labour party and was going for independance i would have voted yes !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Scotland has an expected 1 in 4 children in poverty and that will rise until 2018. That means we live in a society where many working families still live below the poverty threshold.

Considering the massive impact poverty has on educational attainment, mental and physical health as well as overall living standards, I'd take that 8% rate.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Scotland has an expected 1 in 4 children in poverty and that will rise until 2018. That means we live in a society where many working families still live below the poverty threshold.

Considering the massive impact poverty has on educational attainment, mental and physical health as well as overall living standards, I'd take that 8% rate. "

You do not get the point I was making. The WhitePaper was flawed as soon as it was published. People have been well lets not say mislead or decieved but maybe not told everything. Norway is one of the examples I use as its quoted by a lot of the SNP. If your willing to accept 78,000 children in poverty when a Gov has has so much money. A quote from a recent article.

"Norway is one of the richest countries per head of population. Europe's debt crisis feels very, very far away in this affluent corner of the continent."

So being one of the richest countries per head of population in Europe I would be asked why the hell do they still have so much child poverty? What are they not doing?

We have 6.2percent unemployment, Norway has 3.5percent, why so high with so much money?

Yes its great to see the percentage lower than Scotland but for such a rich country 78,000 is bad.

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

Alex Salmond will be a sad loss ..love him or hate him he was a giant in the political world and fired a passion for politics and independence into the hearts of 1.6 million people...(something every other politician could only dream about) ...a passion that stays with the people i hope ..whoever succeeds him has big shoes to fill ...will that person be nicola sturgeon...i hope it is ..i believe she has the attributes and passion to keep the dream alive

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Alex Salmond will be a sad loss ..love him or hate him he was a giant in the political world and fired a passion for politics and independence into the hearts of 1.6 million people...(something every other politician could only dream about) ...a passion that stays with the people i hope ..whoever succeeds him has big shoes to fill ...will that person be nicola sturgeon...i hope it is ..i believe she has the attributes and passion to keep the dream alive

So long as she realises it will only ever be a dream.

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

So long as she realises it will only ever be a dream."

for now

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By *aturisttwoCouple
over a year ago

dumfries

"Alec salmond,was by far the most capable,and skilled party leader in present day british politics.

Some people seem to think he was wrong in calling for a referendum on independence.

Strange when he,and his party have never ever hidden their commitment to an independent Scotland.

Even though he didn't have all the answers,

And with only a short window of opportunity,he had to act quickly,

or the chance would be lost.

Only his skills as politician,

with the odds so heavily stacked against him,

could have taken the vote so close.

It would have been to Scotlands benefit,had he stayed.

It may surprise some,

this is the opinion of one no voter.

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By *onderTongueMan
over a year ago

Bury

As an outsider in England looking in I have to say his behavior since the no vote does seem a bit disrespectful to the 2 million that said no thanks and the 15 percent that didn't vote at all.

You would think that as 1 of 4 siblings he would have learnt to share aposed to demanding everything his own way.

Like his accusations that the 3 stooges (cameron, Clegg & the other one) are going back on their word. Sour grapes me thinks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As an outsider in England looking in I have to say his behavior since the no vote does seem a bit disrespectful to the 2 million that said no thanks and the 15 percent that didn't vote at all.

You would think that as 1 of 4 siblings he would have learnt to share aposed to demanding everything his own way.

Like his accusations that the 3 stooges (cameron, Clegg & the other one) are going back on their word. Sour grapes me thinks."

You could equally argue that celebrations and confetti dropping on top of Alistair Darling in Glasgow where the majority voted yes was slightly disrespectful and on a more wider note disrespectful to the one 1.6 million who also said yes.

It's interesting to see the manoeuvring that the 1.6 million scots that voted yes is some kinda of little insignificant number.

While everyone, we'll most accept the result, 1.6 million people in a Nation Scotland's size is still a substantial amount of people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good luck Eck-I think that you fought a good fight. Fair play on wanting to step down. Independance wont happen in my lifetime now. The Tory party will rule for the next 20 years I think. Who will ever vote for Mr Ed, 'seriously.' SNP will find it hard to replace Eck, and Scots will never vote for Liberals.

I also think, sadly, all the promises made will turn out to be very hollow, and only then will a lot of people in the no camp see that they were duped.

It's time to move on though as nothing will be gained mulling over or fighting over a result that won't change.

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By *onderTongueMan
over a year ago

Bury

I'm not saying the 1.6 mil should be ignored and unfortunately nobody is going to spend the time trying to find out what the real issues were affecting the people at grass routes level which made them want out of the union. (patriotic, economic, financial, political etc) politicians from all sides will just put the spin on what suites their agenda.

So at the end of they day it negotiation time...but might be challenging as there are large numbers in all 4 nations that think the union is giving their country a bumb deal.

I just hope whoever replaces AS is a diplomat not a dictator.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Eck's successor is almost certain to be Nicola Sturgeon. She's even more divisive than Salmond.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"Good luck Eck-I think that you fought a good fight. Fair play on wanting to step down. Independance wont happen in my lifetime now. The Tory party will rule for the next 20 years I think. Who will ever vote for Mr Ed, 'seriously.' SNP will find it hard to replace Eck, and Scots will never vote for Liberals.

I also think, sadly, all the promises made will turn out to be very hollow, and only then will a lot of people in the no camp see that they were duped.

It's time to move on though as nothing will be gained mulling over or fighting over a result that won't change."
im quite sure this gets up others noses also im guessing like me alot of voters had already decided long before the more powers thing that we didnt buy the super rich independant scotland proposal and the no campaign wasnt hinged on more dev powers so along way from duped I think mr salmond is doing the right thing he has taken yhe party as far as he can

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I also think, sadly, all the promises made will turn out to be very hollow, and only then will a lot of people in the no camp see that they were duped.

It's time to move on though as nothing will be gained mulling over or fighting over a result that won't change.im quite sure this gets up others noses also im guessing like me alot of voters had already decided long before the more powers thing that we didnt buy the super rich independant scotland proposal and the no campaign wasnt hinged on more dev powers so along way from duped I think mr salmond is doing the right thing he has taken yhe party as far as he can "

I think your probably right for some no voters, it is interesting that when the Edinburgh agreement was agreed there was no devo max option but a few days before the referendum it appears as an option, so I presume it was seen as something that would have swayed people or they wouldn't have bothered with the "vow".

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

There will examples of what both sides consider to be 'bad taste' comments or actions from all involved - these will subside.

What's important is to move on and accept the result.

The mindset from the 'Yes' camp of 'we lost this one' or 'until the next time' does not help. If they are expecting the next referendum as part as some sort of best of three (until they get the result they want) anytime soon they will be very dissapointed. It will also ensure that they wallow in their own misery and that is never a constructive emotion to sustain.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"As an outsider in England looking in I have to say his behavior since the no vote does seem a bit disrespectful to the 2 million that said no thanks and the 15 percent that didn't vote at all.

You would think that as 1 of 4 siblings he would have learnt to share aposed to demanding everything his own way.

Like his accusations that the 3 stooges (cameron, Clegg & the other one) are going back on their word. Sour grapes me thinks.

It's interesting to see the manoeuvring that the 1.6 million scots that voted yes is some kinda of little insignificant number.

While everyone, we'll most accept the result, 1.6 million people in a Nation Scotland's size is still a substantial amount of people."

This is called democracy in action. What we should be asking is why did 15percent of the population did not vote in something that was so important did they:

1. Go away on holiday and not know about postal vote

2. Are they housebound or in hospital and did not know about postal vote

3. Did they think that Yes would win and whats the point

4. Did they think that No would win and whats the point

Also how many people of voting age in Scotland did not even bother to register to vote, this number of potential voting adults never appeared anywhere, it was just registered voters.

BUT

Saying all of that the turnout was fantastic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He did his best for his country a true scot in my eyes

Will always be grateful to him for bringing me the opportunity to reject Westminster and all that it stands for

Wish he would stay coz he truely has scotland in his heart ....

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

" You could equally argue that celebrations and confetti dropping on top of Alistair Darling in Glasgow where the majority voted yes was slightly disrespectful and on a more wider note disrespectful to the one 1.6 million who also said yes.

It's interesting to see the manoeuvring that the 1.6 million scots that voted yes is some kinda of little insignificant number.

While everyone, we'll most accept the result, 1.6 million people in a Nation Scotland's size is still a substantial amount of people."

No you cant at all. Thats just being silly now. Ok it was 25,000 more votes for Yes than No but it was only 7% more in favour of Yes. In other areas the percentage gap for No to Yes was more than 20%. So to say that the majority voted is not striclty true compared with other areas.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I also think, sadly, all the promises made will turn out to be very hollow, and only then will a lot of people in the no camp see that they were duped.

It's time to move on though as nothing will be gained mulling over or fighting over a result that won't change."

The Scots will vote for liberals and they will vote for Tory and they have already voted for UKIP (thats why we have a UKIP MEP). Some folk in Scotland are pretty ignorant of the makeup of our elected representatives.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I also think, sadly, all the promises made will turn out to be very hollow, and only then will a lot of people in the no camp see that they were duped.

The voting paper is very Simple YES OR NO. Having a 3rd option would have split the votes and the only fare way would have been to add the DevoMax and No votes together as you could easily have split the NO vote between DevoMax and No and then the Yes would have won. This was something that was highlighted very as soon as it was dreamed up.

The YES or NO option was the best. No matter what people have promised i.e. DevoMax, what we were promised by the SNP kept on changing.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"He did his best for his country a true scot in my eyes

Will always be grateful to him for bringing me the opportunity to reject Westminster and all that it stands for

Wish he would stay coz he truely has scotland in his heart ....

I think he should have stayed and worked with the other parties and made sure that the Devomax was delivered. Also he has to bring the country back together.

Then again he has previous for resiging and coming back..you never know..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's interesting to see the manoeuvring that the 1.6 million scots that voted yes is some kinda of little insignificant number.

While everyone, we'll most accept the result, 1.6 million people in a Nation Scotland's size is still a substantial amount of people.

So I can't say the majority of people that did vote in Glasgow voted yes??

And I equally can't say that 1.6 million is a significant number in a nation the size of Scotland.

Not sure what I said was silly?

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

It's interesting to see the manoeuvring that the 1.6 million scots that voted yes is some kinda of little insignificant number.

While everyone, we'll most accept the result, 1.6 million people in a Nation Scotland's size is still a substantial amount of people.

So I can't say the majority of people that did vote in Glasgow voted yes??

And I equally can't say that 1.6 million is a significant number in a nation the size of Scotland.

Not sure what I said was silly? "

I was pointing out that the actual percentage was 7%. 194k for Yes and 167k for No. In other areas the gap for No to Yes was in the 20% which was massive.

Regarding silly, its the comment about the confetti and Alistair Darling celebrating in Glasgow. So what, your just being silly having a go at them for that.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Of course you can say it and to be honest you have a point glasgow aint even the capital and it was a region they lost in so would have been better celebrating it elsewhere yup 1.6 agree and it is a massive amount I hope they reorganose and bring another vote soonone which has Iideas based on sound reasoning with emphasis on the flaws and pros I suspect if this is done there is every chance people would change their minds

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of course you can say it and to be honest you have a point glasgow aint even the capital and it was a region they lost in so would have been better celebrating it elsewhere yup 1.6 agree and it is a massive amount I hope they reorganose and bring another vote soonone which has Iideas based on sound reasoning with emphasis on the flaws and pros I suspect if this is done there is every chance people would change their minds "

I suppose that was what I was saying/meaning it was a curious place for the celebration.

I personally don't think there will be another vote possibly ever.

I was a yes voter and would do the same again but I'm not in favour for the lets do this every four or so years until we get result I want.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I suppose that was what I was saying/meaning it was a curious place for the celebration.

I personally don't think there will be another vote possibly ever.

I was a yes voter and would do the same again but I'm not in favour for the lets do this every four or so years until we get result I want.

As a Yes voter do you really think that the Yes camp put forward a sound economical argument for independance

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

I suppose that was what I was saying/meaning it was a curious place for the celebration.

I personally don't think there will be another vote possibly ever.

I was a yes voter and would do the same again but I'm not in favour for the lets do this every four or so years until we get result I want.

Apologies, not you, but others in the the 'threads' have said 'until next time'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suppose that was what I was saying/meaning it was a curious place for the celebration.

I personally don't think there will be another vote possibly ever.

I was a yes voter and would do the same again but I'm not in favour for the lets do this every four or so years until we get result I want.

As a Yes voter do you really think that the Yes camp put forward a sound economical argument for independance"

Well that's a double edged answer because clearly the majority didn't feel so, therefore the answer is no they did not.

I think Scotland was quite cable of running and paying for our own affairs, I don't believe we would have descended into an 1930s american still depression.

The Uk economy has not exactly be doing particularly well with the recession of the last few years.

Yes or no, we now will never know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

March 2015, Alex salmond resigned because he agree to if it was a no vote because he made a deal not to contest it so by standing down the next first minister isn't held to that agreement, & because westminister have already broken they're promises we can have what's called a quick refferendum in march 2015 & hopefully it will be a yes.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

I suppose that was what I was saying/meaning it was a curious place for the celebration.

I personally don't think there will be another vote possibly ever.

I was a yes voter and would do the same again but I'm not in favour for the lets do this every four or so years until we get result I want.

"
me and alot of folk I know were no voters not for keeping the union...... I would love a free scotland but because of the lack of clear hard facts to prove it was viable and wouldnt cost us being worse of than we are now even putting the expected hard times in it may have captured mine and other votes but no figures no plans just an image of hey it will be great we will be our own country dosnt sway me I want a strong scotland would love a free scotland but not at any cost lay out facts and figures dont dress it up as rainbows and butterflys and oil baths happy happy dreams often turn to nightmares

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suppose that was what I was saying/meaning it was a curious place for the celebration.

I personally don't think there will be another vote possibly ever.

I was a yes voter and would do the same again but I'm not in favour for the lets do this every four or so years until we get result I want.

me and alot of folk I know were no voters not for keeping the union...... I would love a free scotland but because of the lack of clear hard facts to prove it was viable and wouldnt cost us being worse of than we are now even putting the expected hard times in it may have captured mine and other votes but no figures no plans just an image of hey it will be great we will be our own country dosnt sway me I want a strong scotland would love a free scotland but not at any cost lay out facts and figures dont dress it up as rainbows and butterflys and oil baths happy happy dreams often turn to nightmares "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suppose that was what I was saying/meaning it was a curious place for the celebration.

I personally don't think there will be another vote possibly ever.

I was a yes voter and would do the same again but I'm not in favour for the lets do this every four or so years until we get result I want.

Do you think you will ever get the option to have a free Scotland as you say? Ie another referendum?

I just feel the opportunity is now gone.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Margin was to close for it not to happen in time scotland will be free in my opinion its catching the right time to split and for the right reasons

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

The Uk economy has not exactly be doing particularly well with the recession of the last few years.

Yes or no, we now will never know."

The UK Economy is doing well:

July 2014

After a period of generally disappointing growth in 2011 and 2012, the UK economy showed clear signs of recovery during 2013 and we expect this to continue in 2014-15. All major industry sectors and regions are now showing positive growth trends.

Given these projections, the UK could overtake France, to become the fifth largest economy in the world before 2020.

Inflation appears to be under control for now, but interest rates are likely to start rising gradually from late 2014 or early 2015 in order to keep inflation around target in the longer term.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I suppose that was what I was saying/meaning it was a curious place for the celebration.

I personally don't think there will be another vote possibly ever.

I was a yes voter and would do the same again but I'm not in favour for the lets do this every four or so years until we get result I want.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Margin was to close for it not to happen in time scotland will be free in my opinion its catching the right time to split and for the right reasons

Even that statement when we all the figures of YES and No votes can't be agreed on.

There has been media reports suggesting it was a massive rejection on independence.

Almost suggesting it was landslide in proportions.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

The Marriott was booked for the No post referendum do some weeks ago, admittedly in the expectation that whatever else happened, Glasgow would vote No. That wasn't to be

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By *rebor601cplCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh

"Who can blame him, history has shown that Westminster can't be trusted

Kick me once... Shame on you, Kick me twice shame on me. Seems the sheep never learn"

respected by half ,undervalued by most and always put Scotland first

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By *erfume-LoverMan
over a year ago

Lothian area

Better with Boris - he is coming soon

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Margin was to close for it not to happen in time scotland will be free in my opinion its catching the right time to split and for the right reasons

Even that statement when we all the figures of YES and No votes can't be agreed on.

There has been media reports suggesting it was a massive rejection on independence.

Almost suggesting it was landslide in proportions. "

55% of the people who registered to vote Voted No

45% of the people who registered to vote Voted Yes

97% of the electorate registed to vote

15% of those that registered did not vote thats 642000 people.

3% of the electorate did not register to vote.

Thats a lot of votes that did not goto either campaign.

I think you may find that who ever reported a massive win might have looked at the local council areas where the No vote came out on top but they dont really mean much at all as this really was just a count of highest number of total votes.

Anyway, we can debate the pros and cons of number of voters for months but they are stats and stats can be presented in many forms and read many ways.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

The number of no votes was almost 24% more than than yes votes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The number of no votes was almost 24% more than than yes votes."

55% to 45% means 24% more no than yes?

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"The number of no votes was almost 24% more than than yes votes.

55% to 45% means 24% more no than yes? "

basically yes.

2,001,926 vote No

1,617,989 vote Yes

383,937 differance

Then work that number out as a % of Yes and its 23% I believe that is what he is talking about. So 23% more voted for No.

Again its stats....

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"The number of no votes was almost 24% more than than yes votes.

55% to 45% means 24% more no than yes?

basically yes.

2,001,926 vote No

1,617,989 vote Yes

383,937 differance

Then work that number out as a % of Yes and its 23% I believe that is what he is talking about. So 23% more voted for No.

Again its stats...."

Not he, she lol

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"The number of no votes was almost 24% more than than yes votes.

55% to 45% means 24% more no than yes?

basically yes.

2,001,926 vote No

1,617,989 vote Yes

383,937 differance

Then work that number out as a % of Yes and its 23% I believe that is what he is talking about. So 23% more voted for No.

Again its stats....

Not he, she lol"

Soz x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Norway is one of the richest countries per head of population. Europe's debt crisis feels very, very far away in this affluent corner of the continent."

So being one of the richest countries per head of population in Europe I would be asked why the hell do they still have so much child poverty? What are they not doing?

We have 6.2percent unemployment, Norway has 3.5percent, why so high with so much money?

Yes its great to see the percentage lower than Scotland but for such a rich country 78,000 is bad."

Norway has the 1 of the lowest rates of child poverty on the planet. I think only Sweden or Denmark has better statistics.

Its definitely not the richest country but it manages its economy well and has a much fairer political system than the British. We still live in a trickle down economy because we allow Big Business to exploit us. We are forced to give tax cuts to large corporations who take the profits and invest them in foreign banks.

I doubt any country will ever eradicate poverty and unemployment completely. It wasn't the SNP that used it as an example so often, it was the Yes campaign.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Norway has the 1 of the lowest rates of child poverty on the planet. I think only Sweden or Denmark has better statistics.

I doubt any country will ever eradicate poverty and unemployment completely. It wasn't the SNP that used it as an example so often, it was the Yes campaign. "

Actually Mr Salmond was talking about Norway and Scottish independance years ago...

Mr Salmond said that all three "young countries" had become independent in the 20th century and moved from being less prosperous than Scotland to being more economically successful.

Making his case for reduced business taxation, the SNP leader said that all three of these northern European nations had lower corporation taxes than Scotland had as part of the UK.

"Norway, the second most prosperous country in the world, charged businesses 28 per cent corporation tax. Ireland, the fifth richest country, had a rate of 12.5 per cent and in Iceland, the sixth in the world prosperity league, the rate was 18 per cent. "

The above from the Scotsman newspaper in 2006.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Norway is one of the richest countries per head of population. Europe's debt crisis feels very, very far away in this affluent corner of the continent."

So being one of the richest countries per head of population in Europe I would be asked why the hell do they still have so much child poverty? What are they not doing?

We have 6.2percent unemployment, Norway has 3.5percent, why so high with so much money?

Yes its great to see the percentage lower than Scotland but for such a rich country 78,000 is bad.

Norway has the 1 of the lowest rates of child poverty on the planet. I think only Sweden or Denmark has better statistics.

I doubt any country will ever eradicate poverty and unemployment completely. It wasn't the SNP that used it as an example so often, it was the Yes campaign. "

The attempt to distance the SNP from the Yes campaign won't work.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Norway has the 1 of the lowest rates of child poverty on the planet. I think only Sweden or Denmark has better statistics.

I doubt any country will ever eradicate poverty and unemployment completely. It wasn't the SNP that used it as an example so often, it was the Yes campaign.

Actually Mr Salmond was talking about Norway and Scottish independance years ago...

Mr Salmond said that all three "young countries" had become independent in the 20th century and moved from being less prosperous than Scotland to being more economically successful.

Making his case for reduced business taxation, the SNP leader said that all three of these northern European nations had lower corporation taxes than Scotland had as part of the UK.

The above from the Scotsman newspaper in 2006."

This was Salmond's 'arc of prosperity'. Look how well that turned out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The white paper was put together by the Yes campaign though. The independence referendum wasn't about the SNP or Alex Salmond.

I assume the reason Norway was mentioned in it, is because they seem to have a better education system, political system and judiciary system in comparison to the Scottish (under Britain anyway). You seemed to be making out that we could have chosen a better target to emulate, I was simply pointing out that there probably isn't 1.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

This was Salmond's 'arc of prosperity'. Look how well that turned out."

If you go back to Salmond speech to the SNP party conference. Norway is brought up. Norway was not the YES campaign chant it was a SNP one many years before.

"For Norway, the answer is for all time. Why? Because the economic impact of their fund will last for all time."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This was Salmond's 'arc of prosperity'. Look how well that turned out.

If you go back to Salmond speech to the SNP party conference. Norway is brought up. Norway was not the YES campaign chant it was a SNP one many years before.

"For Norway, the answer is for all time. Why? Because the economic impact of their fund will last for all time.""

They just seem to get everything correct for a number of reasons. They have a completely transparent government and policy making style. I'll assume you know what this means but I'll explain as well. When they pass bills, they make sure its open for the public to look into and can be questioned at any point in the process. This itself will stop interest groups being able to influence governmental decision making. You only need to look at America, which has a massive influence from interest groups and lobbyists. This is why nothing can get done.

Britain has been going down the same path as America for a number of years. Personally, this is why I voted in favour of Yes. I think the British system has had its days and is now influenced far too much by London and whats good for the capital and we are clearly suffering because of it.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

This was Salmond's 'arc of prosperity'. Look how well that turned out.

If you go back to Salmond speech to the SNP party conference. Norway is brought up. Norway was not the YES campaign chant it was a SNP one many years before.

"For Norway, the answer is for all time. Why? Because the economic impact of their fund will last for all time."

Well its not just the British System, unless you include the Scottish Parliement in this as well because they basically use the same system and have passed a number of bills.

Remember the Whitepaper was published by the Scottish Gov NOT the Yes campaign. The Yes campaign support the WhitePaper.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Would be interesting to know where Ireland & Iceland are now in they charts ???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well its not just the British System, unless you include the Scottish Parliement in this as well because they basically use the same system and have passed a number of bills.

Remember the Whitepaper was published by the Scottish Gov NOT the Yes campaign. The Yes campaign support the WhitePaper."

Scotland doesn't really have an impact on Westminster. I think its quite evident that Westminster has an influence on Scottish politics. That was the entire point of the Yes campaign. It would allow Scotland to make decisions on Scottish matters.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

This was Salmond's 'arc of prosperity'. Look how well that turned out.

If you go back to Salmond speech to the SNP party conference. Norway is brought up. Norway was not the YES campaign chant it was a SNP one many years before.

"For Norway, the answer is for all time. Why? Because the economic impact of their fund will last for all time."

Well its not just the British System, unless you include the Scottish Parliement in this as well because they basically use the same system and have passed a number of bills.

Remember the Whitepaper was published by the Scottish Gov NOT the Yes campaign. The Yes campaign support the WhitePaper."

And paid for by the people of Scotland

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

He did the right thing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well its not just the British System, unless you include the Scottish Parliement in this as well because they basically use the same system and have passed a number of bills.

Remember the Whitepaper was published by the Scottish Gov NOT the Yes campaign. The Yes campaign support the WhitePaper.

It's interesting to see the anti European union stance with some people in power at Westminster.

Guess there not comfortable with somebody else make decisions for them.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Well its not just the British System, unless you include the Scottish Parliement in this as well because they basically use the same system and have passed a number of bills.

Remember the Whitepaper was published by the Scottish Gov NOT the Yes campaign. The Yes campaign support the WhitePaper.

Actually Scotland does but your post would indicate that it does not.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Would be interesting to know where Ireland & Iceland are now in they charts ???"

Ireland starting to recover pretty quickly but still owe billions to the IMF and that does not include the UK loans.

Iceland looks like its still in a mess.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Would be interesting to know where Ireland & Iceland are now in they charts ???

Ireland starting to recover pretty quickly but still owe billions to the IMF and that does not include the UK loans.

Iceland looks like its still in a mess."

Ireland has huge levels of emigration. Many are of their brightest and best.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

It's interesting to see the anti European union stance with some people in power at Westminster.

Guess there not comfortable with somebody else make decisions for them.

You have to remember that Scotland now has a UKIP MEP who took 10.4% of the vote. Dont need to look far for Anti-EU.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I don't do church but where were Salmond and Sturgeon at the 'Service of Reconcilliation' in St Giles this morning?

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By *hybutnaughtyoneWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't do church but where were Salmond and Sturgeon at the 'Service of Reconcilliation' in St Giles this morning?"

Why are you so interested ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't do church but where were Salmond and Sturgeon at the 'Service of Reconcilliation' in St Giles this morning?"

Maybe like you they don't do religion???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's over & done with but honestly the only reason it was a no vote is because of bigotry & sectarianism & am not basing that on what's been happening in Glasgow the past few day I'm basing that on what I've been hearing the past 2months & every day since the vote I hear it at home & at work & obviously I & everyone else sees it on the TV

The othe day at work group o guys standing talkin

1st guy- did u vote naw?

2nd guy- obviously a voted naw

1st guy- how obviously?

2nd guy- coz am no a fuckin filthy tim am I.

It's a vote that's been based on religion "which none of them actually are about just another reason to be scum" & football.

Hypothetically If it were possible to some how take everyone that would vote for what they truly believe is best for Scotland & only let them vote & leave all the bigots & idiots out of it does anyone think it woul still be a no vote? I don't! it would be a yes.

But it was a no it's a hollow victory but still a victory but when the country start gettin shafted which it will btw just remember the no votes made it happen

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's interesting to see the anti European union stance with some people in power at Westminster.

Guess there not comfortable with somebody else make decisions for them.

Good point !

I'm quite disillusioned with politics so Im almost excited to see Nigel Farage moving into Number 10. It'll be good for about 30 minutes and then I'll probably try move to Bolivia to get away from it.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"It's over & done with but honestly the only reason it was a no vote is because of bigotry & sectarianism & "

Sorry but you cant label us all like that I am not a bigot or do I support sectarianism.

There are a lot of other people I know who voted NO and some of my friends who are Asians voted no and your label on the No voteres would not stand for them.

This really is pathetic name calling.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's over & done with but honestly the only reason it was a no vote is because of bigotry & sectarianism &

Sorry but you cant label us all like that I am not a bigot or do I support sectarianism.

There are a lot of other people I know who voted NO and some of my friends who are Asians voted no and your label on the No voteres would not stand for them.

This really is pathetic name calling."
I'm not saying everyone who voted no is I'm saying most of the no votes would've been base on those things & am not name calling anyone, the no votes that weren't base on those things were some based on fear & some based on people truly believed it was the best thing am just sayin the majority wAs bigotry & sectarianism it's a fact it just the way it is, it was no surprise when south Lanarkshire came through as being no with places like lark hall a place I was working in last year & me & my co worker were attacked because we were wearing hi vis vests a place where the made subway change the colour of the sign a place where they are threatening to burn down asda if they don't change the colour of the sign! Just because you are in the very small amount of no vote that voted no because you thought it was best doesn't mean I'm wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

& just to clarify I don't care who vote yes & who voted no a few of ma mates voted no guess what they're still ma mates both ma parents voted no guess what a still live them, even if ma dad has been marchin around the house whistling the British theme like a prick

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't do church but where were Salmond and Sturgeon at the 'Service of Reconcilliation' in St Giles this morning?

Maybe like you they don't do religion???"

Well, they were happy enough to be seen at the Clutha service in Glasgow Cathedral.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I'm not saying everyone who voted no is I'm saying most of the no votes would've been base on those things & am not name calling anyone, the no votes that weren't base on those things were some based on fear & some based on people truly believed it was the best thing am just sayin the majority wAs bigotry & sectarianism it's a fact it just the way it is, it was no surprise when south Lanarkshire came through as being no with places like lark hall a place I was working in last year & me & my co worker were attacked because we were wearing hi vis vests a place where the made subway change the colour of the sign a place where they are threatening to burn down asda if they don't change the colour of the sign! Just because you are in the very small amount of no vote that voted no because you thought it was best doesn't mean I'm wrong."

Sorry but you really are being so short sighted with this. Your basing you findings on one area. Thats one area, there were a lot of other areas that the No vote was the majority. You really must think that the majority of no voters are thick bigots orangemen or people scared of things. Pretty sad day indeed.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"& just to clarify I don't care who vote yes & who voted no a few of ma mates voted no guess what they're still ma mates both ma parents voted no guess what a still live them, even if ma dad has been marchin around the house whistling the British theme like a prick "

Can you provide stats that show the majority are bigots and secterian supporters please.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely there's people who voted yes and no for various reasons, I have heard no voters give reason varying from I'm British not Scottish to I'm in favour of independence buy now wasn't the right time.

I do find it very strange that some people seem to be able to find a sectarian element in any subject/topic.

Quite sad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Am not goin to argue coz you's are completely ignoring the parts where I've said I know it's not all like that & some have done it coz they thought it was right if you's won't take in all the info dont reply to it, & stop putting words in my mouth I didn't focus on just one area I just happened to mention one.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Yup can get so you would be afraid to take an orange out the fruit bowl without being labeled a bigot

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

I do find it very strange that some people seem to be able to find a sectarian element in any subject/topic.

Quite sad "

Although Denial is just a wee bit sadder.

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By *candiumWoman
over a year ago

oban

lol. I'm not motivated by 'scottish votes on scottish issues', nor was it anything to do with religion for me. Simply a statement that i am british.

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By *w84TV/TS
over a year ago

I see there is now an active group calling for other Yes voters to boycott the businesses that spoke out against independence.

That will be interesting to see how it plays out or for how long.

It's the main story on the Huff Post if anyone wants to know more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I see there is now an active group calling for other Yes voters to boycott the businesses that spoke out against independence.

That will be interesting to see how it plays out or for how long.

It's the main story on the Huff Post if

anyone wants to know more. "

There was also talk on other threads of boycotting Scottish goods if it was yes pretty pathetic, remember in the second golf war Americans boycotting French goods and wanting renaming french fries lol.

So Oban what's you opinion on English votes on English matters? Because that seems to be on it's way too. But do you want the whole Uk ran centrally by Westminster?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's over & done with but honestly the only reason it was a no vote is because of bigotry & sectarianism &

Sorry but you cant label us all like that I am not a bigot or do I support sectarianism.

There are a lot of other people I know who voted NO and some of my friends who are Asians voted no and your label on the No voteres would not stand for them.

This really is pathetic name calling. I'm not saying everyone who voted no is I'm saying most of the no votes would've been base on those things & am not name calling anyone, the no votes that weren't base on those things were some based on fear & some based on people truly believed it was the best thing am just sayin the majority wAs bigotry & sectarianism it's a fact it just the way it is, it was no surprise when south Lanarkshire came through as being no with places like lark hall a place I was working in last year & me & my co worker were attacked because we were wearing hi vis vests a place where the made subway change the colour of the sign a place where they are threatening to burn down asda if they don't change the colour of the sign! Just because you are in the very small amount of no vote that voted no because you thought it was best doesn't mean I'm wrong."

You Are Wrong Tho

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"It's over & done with but honestly the only reason it was a no vote is because of bigotry & sectarianism &

Sorry but you cant label us all like that I am not a bigot or do I support sectarianism.

There are a lot of other people I know who voted NO and some of my friends who are Asians voted no and your label on the No voteres would not stand for them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's over & done with but honestly the only reason it was a no vote is because of bigotry & sectarianism & am not basing that on what's been happening in Glasgow the past few day I'm basing that on what I've been hearing the past 2months & every day since the vote I hear it at home & at work & obviously I & everyone else sees it on the TV

The othe day at work group o guys standing talkin

1st guy- did u vote naw?

2nd guy- obviously a voted naw

1st guy- how obviously?

2nd guy- coz am no a fuckin filthy tim am I.

It's a vote that's been based on religion "which none of them actually are about just another reason to be scum" & football.

But it was a no it's a hollow victory but still a victory but when the country start gettin shafted which it will btw just remember the no votes made it happen"

Absolute nonsense

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

"The number of no votes was almost 24% more than than yes votes.

55% to 45% means 24% more no than yes?

basically yes.

2,001,926 vote No

1,617,989 vote Yes

383,937 differance

Then work that number out as a % of Yes and its 23% I believe that is what he is talking about. So 23% more voted for No.

Again its stats...."

at the end of the day stats can be stated in many forms to look good for whatever purpose....ultimately independence lost out by 191969 votes ..thats not a very big margin..hopefully i will see an independent scotland in my lifetime

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By *vbride1963TV/TS
over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow

"The number of no votes was almost 24% more than than yes votes.

55% to 45% means 24% more no than yes?

basically yes.

2,001,926 vote No

1,617,989 vote Yes

383,937 differance

Then work that number out as a % of Yes and its 23% I believe that is what he is talking about. So 23% more voted for No.

Again its stats....

Surely it's still just under 384000 if the folk that didn't vote at all approx. half a million if they voted yes it would have been a victory for the yes campaign

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

The othe day at work group o guys standing talkin

1st guy- did u vote naw?

2nd guy- obviously a voted naw

1st guy- how obviously?

2nd guy- coz am no a fuckin filthy tim am I.

It's a vote that's been based on religion "which none of them actually are about just another reason to be scum" & football.

But it was a no it's a hollow victory but still a victory but when the country start gettin shafted which it will btw just remember the no votes made it happen"

I have never heard such ignorant nonsense .... And believe me there's been a lot of nonsense written in these threads

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

Surely it's still just under 384000 if the folk that didn't vote at all approx. half a million if they voted yes it would have been a victory for the yes campaign "

But they didn't. This is not much different to saying, 'well if those who voted no had voted yes then the yes campaign would've won'

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By *vbride1963TV/TS
over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow

Surely it's still just under 384000 if the folk that didn't vote at all approx. half a million if they voted yes it would have been a victory for the yes campaign

But they didn't. This is not much different to saying, 'well if those who voted no had voted yes then the yes campaign would've won'"

Maybe voting should be made compulsory then so there's no guess work involved

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely it's still just under 384000 if the folk that didn't vote at all approx. half a million if they voted yes it would have been a victory for the yes campaign

But they didn't. This is not much different to saying, 'well if those who voted no had voted yes then the yes campaign would've won'

Maybe voting should be made compulsory then so there's no guess work involved "

no steph, thats anti-democratic & totalitarian. Not the sort of system any of us should aspire to.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

I wouldn't like to see that. Then you'd have people voting for things they didn't believe in just because they were forced to do so, and it would be wrong if that was to swing the result one way or another.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I voted no as I wasn't persuaded to vote yes. If Alex Salmond wasn't in charge - I might have swayed to a Yes.

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By *vbride1963TV/TS
over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow

My origonal post is just to show that just half of the under 384000 changing their minds might not have changed the decision . 85 % turnout was a great result but still about a seventh of the country felt not able to vote on such an important decision . The politicians should have worked a bit harder to make the choice for the voter easier with facts about what would have happened after a yes or a no vote . To much left to guesswork and what if's on both sides

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I voted no as I wasn't persuaded to vote yes. If Alex Salmond wasn't in charge - I might have swayed to a Yes. "

Salmon turned out to be both an asset and a liability to the Yes campaign.

Some of his 'we don't need a referendum' rankings since Friday suggest he's a serious liability.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

My take on it was that there was too much flag waving by the Yes camp and too little time spent on detail.

Every setback or bit of news Alex Salmond got was met by "they're scaremongering" which is exactly what he was doing about the NHS.

The one point I would make is that if he had said that he wanted a currency union but if that wasn't possible then Scotland would do have their own pound, joined the Euro or something but just continually saying "it's ok, they're bluffing" didn't fool everyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no steph, thats anti-democratic & totalitarian. Not the sort of system any of us should aspire to."

Australia has compulsory voting. Wouldn't exactly call that a totalitarian system.

I think 85% was an excellent turnout, the other 15% could have simply not wanted their opinion noted or may have been unable to vote on that day.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"The number of no votes was almost 24% more than than yes votes.

55% to 45% means 24% more no than yes?

basically yes.

2,001,926 vote No

1,617,989 vote Yes

383,937 differance

Then work that number out as a % of Yes and its 23% I believe that is what he is talking about. So 23% more voted for No.

Again its stats....

Surely it's still just under 384000 if the folk that didn't vote at all approx. half a million if they voted yes it would have been a victory for the yes campaign "

Of a bigger victory for the No campaign whichever way you want to spin the 640,000 people who did not vote.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

no steph, thats anti-democratic & totalitarian. Not the sort of system any of us should aspire to.

Australia has compulsory voting. Wouldn't exactly call that a totalitarian system.

I think 85% was an excellent turnout, the other 15% could have simply not wanted their opinion noted or may have been unable to vote on that day.

"
That 15% was 640,000 voters.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That 15% was 640,000 voters. "

I don't know if you were making a point here or just demonstrating maths.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

That 15% was 640,000 voters.

I don't know if you were making a point here or just demonstrating maths."

Depends on if you want to be smug or look at the point.

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow

"I voted no as I wasn't persuaded to vote yes. If Alex Salmond wasn't in charge - I might have swayed to a Yes. "

Have to say that it really annoys me the way that AS and others are assuming that No voters are against independence, and were swayed by the 3 leaders' last minute 'Vow'. And that we're unpatriotic!

AS was right to resign because he has failed miserably to convince 55% of the voters. For those looking for answers to questions, major and comparatively minor, it was a fruitless search.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Every setback or bit of news Alex Salmond got was met by "they're scaremongering" which is exactly what he was doing about the NHS.

Latest tweet today by the Labour Party says 'want to help us save the NHS, join up, only takes 3 minutes'

All of a sudden it's under threat? Wasn't last week. Must have been a crazy weekend...or are they just scaremongering?

Good to see Ed Balls never even mentioned 'the vow' at conference. Still pissed at Gogs for not mentioning it to him before he made his speech.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I voted no as I wasn't persuaded to vote yes. If Alex Salmond wasn't in charge - I might have swayed to a Yes.

Have to say that it really annoys me the way that AS and others are assuming that No voters are against independence, and were swayed by the 3 leaders' last minute 'Vow'. And that we're unpatriotic!

AS was right to resign because he has failed miserably to convince 55% of the voters. For those looking for answers to questions, major and comparatively minor, it was a fruitless search."

Surely the unionist parties thought the "vow" would sway people, if not why make the "vow" at all?

I did say this before but nobody gave an opinion.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Every setback or bit of news Alex Salmond got was met by "they're scaremongering" which is exactly what he was doing about the NHS.

Latest tweet today by the Labour Party says 'want to help us save the NHS, join up, only takes 3 minutes'

All of a sudden it's under threat? Wasn't last week. Must have been a crazy weekend...or are they just scaremongering?

Good to see Ed Balls never even mentioned 'the vow' at conference. Still pissed at Gogs for not mentioning it to him before he made his speech.

They are on about the NHS in England/Wales. Ed Balls did not need to be on the Vow, only the leaders.

It seems to me that people still dont know that the NHS in Scotland is DEVOLVED. Its run by the Scottish Gov NOT Westminster. This is the fault of the SNP who decided to throw the NHS into the debate to stirr things up.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I voted no as I wasn't persuaded to vote yes. If Alex Salmond wasn't in charge - I might have swayed to a Yes.

Have to say that it really annoys me the way that AS and others are assuming that No voters are against independence, and were swayed by the 3 leaders' last minute 'Vow'. And that we're unpatriotic!

AS was right to resign because he has failed miserably to convince 55% of the voters. For those looking for answers to questions, major and comparatively minor, it was a fruitless search.

Surely the unionist parties thought the "vow" would sway people, if not why make the "vow" at all?

I did say this before but nobody gave an opinion. "

Sway "SOME" people. They made the ovew because Mr Salmond kept on pushing for them to do something, so they did. They made the Vow. I bet Wee Eek and his crew were shocked at that. He pushed them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Correct it is run by Scot Government but is subject to financial influence through TTIP and cutting of funding through the Barnett. Scotland still has the one pot of cash to run everything from. Put more to NHS and it comes away from elsewhere - like the money allocated to support the bedroom tax.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I voted no as I wasn't persuaded to vote yes. If Alex Salmond wasn't in charge - I might have swayed to a Yes.

Have to say that it really annoys me the way that AS and others are assuming that No voters are against independence, and were swayed by the 3 leaders' last minute 'Vow'. And that we're unpatriotic!

AS was right to resign because he has failed miserably to convince 55% of the voters. For those looking for answers to questions, major and comparatively minor, it was a fruitless search.

Surely the unionist parties thought the "vow" would sway people, if not why make the "vow" at all?

I did say this before but nobody gave an opinion.

Sway "SOME" people. They made the ovew because Mr Salmond kept on pushing for them to do something, so they did. They made the Vow. I bet Wee Eek and his crew were shocked at that. He pushed them"

I totally agree it will have swayed "SOME" people.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Correct it is run by Scot Government but is subject to financial influence through TTIP and cutting of funding through the Barnett. Scotland still has the one pot of cash to run everything from. Put more to NHS and it comes away from elsewhere - like the money allocated to support the bedroom tax."

But the SNP are choosing to spend money in other areas instead. They have forced a council tax freeze on local authorities for the past 7 years and pay them £70 million per year to partially offset the costs of this. This is money that could be spent on the NHS, foodbanks or whatever but it's easier to blame Westminster.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not easy it's necessary. Sure they froze council tax, that's helped millions of Scots who struggle anyway.

The more WM privatises it's NHS then the less money that is allocated to Scotland under Barnett. Like having a business run under budget. When it comes to setting next years they'll drop it to that level. That's what's happening with privatisation, and it's only going to get worse.

If you want to talk about diverting cash from one project to another, bin HS2, scrap the renewal of trident for a start? Both would keep the NHS in England, wales and Scotland going for a while.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

There is NO such thing as bedroom tax. Its a cut in benifits. No one was taxed. I know that the money is one big pot and the Scottish Gov are the ones in charge with spending the money.

Like the money allocated to the Edinburgh Tram bailout? How much was that? A few pounds I think.

Like spending money on Prestwick Airport?

The money pot is not bottomless, they need to manage it all.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"It's not easy it's necessary. Sure they froze council tax, that's helped millions of Scots who struggle anyway.

If you want to talk about diverting cash from one project to another, bin HS2, scrap the renewal of trident for a start? Both would keep the NHS in England, wales and Scotland going for a while."

There's a very good case being made by many that the council tax freeze doesn't help millions who struggle, in fact it's the exact opposite. People on a low income would qualify for council tax benefit anyway so the main ones benefitting from a freeze are those in middle or higher incomes, the same applies with free prescriptions. The council tax freeze is however affecting those who need council services the most, those who tend to have the most need in society.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

I should add one point which is hugely ironic.

The SNP's independence campaign has all been about decisions being made locally instead of a remote Westminster government when they are actually denying this to local authorities throughout the country. They are telling the democratically elected members of these councils they cannot make these decisions based on local need as Edinburgh knows best. You couldn't make it up.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"It's not easy it's necessary. Sure they froze council tax, that's helped millions of Scots who struggle anyway.

If you want to talk about diverting cash from one project to another, bin HS2, scrap the renewal of trident for a start? Both would keep the NHS in England, wales and Scotland going for a while.

In my area there are those that can afford an increase of council tax, as long as the councils dont go mad with the increases.

I dont agree with free eye tests if you can afford to pay for it and also free prescriptions for those that can afford to pay for them.

Anyway my local council spent £60,000 on flower baskets this year, ffs whats that all about. Arghhhhhh.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Here is a really good article on it all.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25575248

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is NO such thing as bedroom tax. Its a cut in benifits. No one was taxed. I know that the money is one big pot and the Scottish Gov are the ones in charge with spending the money.

Like the money allocated to the Edinburgh Tram bailout? How much was that? A few pounds I think.

Like spending money on Prestwick Airport?

The money pot is not bottomless, they need to manage it all."

Eh? You live in a house with an extra room you don't use you pay more. There isn't enough social housing so there's nowhere for these people to downsize to. That's not a cut.

Trams were Labours table. Not the present Scot Gov.

Re Prestwick, 1.5m pax use it every year and numbers rising, albeit slowly. Given there's no real room or desire to expand Glas or Edin airports it's a needed resource.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Eh? You live in a house with an extra room you don't use you pay more. There isn't enough social housing so there's nowhere for these people to downsize to. That's not a cut.

Trams were Labours table. Not the present Scot Gov.

Re Prestwick, 1.5m pax use it every year and numbers rising, albeit slowly. Given there's no real room or desire to expand Glas or Edin airports it's a needed resource.

Actually you dont pay may if you have an extra room. If your on benifits you have them reduced.

With regards pax numbers, Ryanair are starting services up from Glasgow International so how long will that take before Prestwick hurts? Its tax payers money

"Budget airline Ryanair has confirmed it is to start flying from Glasgow Airport in October, with the launch of seven routes.

The airline is to continue operating from the publicly-owned Prestwick and has stressed its commitment to the struggling Ayrshire terminal.

But it said some destinations, including Dublin, would move from Prestwick to Glasgow."

So the Gov bought it and now the Scottish Gov is in competition with Glasgow and Edinburgh.

As for the Trams it was still tax payers money that SNP agreed to payout.

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow

"I voted no as I wasn't persuaded to vote yes. If Alex Salmond wasn't in charge - I might have swayed to a Yes.

Have to say that it really annoys me the way that AS and others are assuming that No voters are against independence, and were swayed by the 3 leaders' last minute 'Vow'. And that we're unpatriotic!

AS was right to resign because he has failed miserably to convince 55% of the voters. For those looking for answers to questions, major and comparatively minor, it was a fruitless search.

Surely the unionist parties thought the "vow" would sway people, if not why make the "vow" at all?

I did say this before but nobody gave an opinion. "

I've no doubt that the 3 party leaders thought their 'vow' would sway voters, I'm taking exception to the fact that AS and his supporters assume/suggest that all the Nos were swayed. Nobody knows that, I certainly wasn't, I'd made my mind up some considerable time previously when AS started all his 'pie in the sky' nonsense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't think people are saying that at all. There certainly were many who did make up their mind in that basis however. People who would have voted for devo max had it been on the ballot paper and saw it as a stepping stone.

Re bedroom tax if they're getting a reduction in benefits they have to pay more to keep the house. Same dog, different kennel.

On the trams what were they to do, just stop and leave the city dug up or fill it all in and be left with nothing at all? It was a ridiculously Ill managed project from the start.

Labour have been the losers here. Totally conned and put up to the fold by Cameron and he's changed the goals at the last minute. That's backfired spectacularly. SNP now the 3rd party in the UK in terms of membership. Tick Tock Scottish Labour...

Anyhoo, Ghostrider is on! Toodles x

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

Granted the trams were a waste of tax payers money ...but safe guarding prestwick airports future was a no brainer for me ...what really irks with me is the £25 billion in austerity cuts coming our way when the government are about to pump in approx £46 billion on HS2 ( and thats just to get it from london to midlands) ...who benefits from HS2.......LONDON !!!!! Yet we're helping foot the bill when that money could have offset austerity cuts...westminster is only interested in the south east...fuck everyone else

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I take your point about austerity cuts v HS2 but you're ignoring the timescales.

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Granted the trams were a waste of tax payers money ...but safe guarding prestwick airports future was a no brainer for me ...what really irks with me is the £25 billion in austerity cuts coming our way when the government are about to pump in approx £46 billion on HS2 ( and thats just to get it from london to midlands) ...who benefits from HS2.......LONDON !!!!! Yet we're helping foot the bill when that money could have offset austerity cuts...westminster is only interested in the south east...fuck everyone else

First of all its not a case of INGORING everyone else. Lets see we have the new Forth Road Bridge, Edinburgh Trams, Prestwick Airport, M74 completion, Aberdeen Bypass, Cranlarich (spelling) bypass. I am sure there can be a lot more listed but yes your correct it will not reach HS2 level.

As for cuts there are a lot of countries going through cuts and will continue for a while yet. We have way too many civil servants for starters.

Anyway I certainly dont thin its a case of Fuck you.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

I see Jim Sillars is having some crazy rants on twitter after promising to go into retirement after the result. There seems to be a number of people having difficulty accepting the result of a democratic vote unfortunately.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

No change there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I see Jim Sillars is having some crazy rants on twitter after promising to go into retirement after the result. There seems to be a number of people having difficulty accepting the result of a democratic vote unfortunately."

Don't agree with everything Jim says but I suspect his position now that the ref is over is one of wondering what to do now. During the campaign he lost Margo, he's never had that chance to grieve, he kept going with campaigning which would help him initially with his loss. Now it's over I'm pretty sure the full force of all kinds of emotions from loss of his wife and also the ref are kicking in.

I don't think people are not accepting the result. Sure some won't, most are. Doesn't mean we can't look forward to trying to make things better and still ultimately towards independence at some point down the line.

Yes lost, yet are pretty up beat and still engaged. No won, are generally miserable and can't let it go by bearing down in yes at every opportunity. Go figure.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"No won, are generally miserable and can't let it go by bearing down in yes at every opportunity. Go figure.

Well that didn't sound like (unfounded) sour grapes at all...

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

" bearing down in yes at every opportunity. Go figure.

Actually thats a load of tosh. You go and have a read of the comments on the newspapers, facebook and twitter. The amount of garbage coming out of some of them is unreal. So much is pretty nasty...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" bearing down in yes at every opportunity. Go figure.

Actually thats a load of tosh. You go and have a read of the comments on the newspapers, facebook and twitter. The amount of garbage coming out of some of them is unreal. So much is pretty nasty...

Well there we have to disagree I'm afraid. The lab/ lib/ con speeches today at Scot Parliament were abysmal. Patrick Harvie on the other hand was up beat - whilst still admitting his differences with Alex et al. Stand out character of the referendum bar none.

Quite ironic that Asda sticking their oar into the Labour conference today saying if they put min wage up prices will go up. What goes around...

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Sillars has been a failure all his political life and has never forgiven Salmond for the way he behaved at the time of the SNP leadership election or the way Salmond engineered Margo out of the 'list'.

The fact she went on to win didn't exactly make Salmond's day either.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sillars has been a failure all his political life and has never forgiven Salmond for the way he behaved at the time of the SNP leadership election or the way Salmond engineered Margo out of the 'list'.

The fact she went on to win didn't exactly make Salmond's day either."

Wouldn't class Govan and 3500 majority as a failure. Leadership elections, like any election, will be hard fought. Like the ref, there's winners and losers.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

He won Govan against Bob knuckledragger Gillespie.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He won Govan against Bob knuckledragger Gillespie."

Yes he won.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He won Govan against Bob knuckledragger Gillespie."

Yes he won.

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By *onderTongueMan
over a year ago

Bury

Just out of interest if it had been a yes vote how would yes voters have felt if the pro union people had made comments like, yes we have independence but hopefully we will rejoin the union in my lifetime, etc....

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Just out of interest if it had been a yes vote how would yes voters have felt if the pro union people had made comments like, yes we have independence but hopefully we will rejoin the union in my lifetime, etc.... "

I'd like to think we'd have the decency to stick to the Edinburgh Agreement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Safe in the knowledge that despite their initial disappointment they would slowly start to see the benefits - as they did after devolution. As we've already seen in momentous fashion this last week those from the Yes side are not seeing any benefits. Quite the opposite. Things that will drastically affect those who voted No also.

I'm sure this wouldn't be as much of an issue had there been a fair crack at the whip media wise. It's more how Yes was defeated than the actual act itself that riles people.

Quite amusing to see the shoe on the other foot now Labour are crying foul over press coverage of their conference.

Reassuring to see all that oil that was runnjng out, that we couldn't manage without, has been found again less than a week after the ref; and after the Labour conference it's good to know that the NHS, as Yes said, is actually pretty screwed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm sure this wouldn't be as much of an issue had there been a fair crack at the whip media wise. It's more how Yes was defeated than the actual act itself that riles people.

Quite amusing to see the shoe on the other foot now Labour are crying foul over press coverage of their conference.

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By *rebor601cplCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh

"Safe in the knowledge that despite their initial disappointment they would slowly start to see the benefits - as they did after devolution. As we've already seen in momentous fashion this last week those from the Yes side are not seeing any benefits. Quite the opposite. Things that will drastically affect those who voted No also.

I'm sure this wouldn't be as much of an issue had there been a fair crack at the whip media wise. It's more how Yes was defeated than the actual act itself that riles people.

Quite amusing to see the shoe on the other foot now Labour are crying foul over press coverage of their conference.

Well put lol

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By *onderTongueMan
over a year ago

Bury

Is there a part of the NHS in any part of the UK that isn't screwed? It's a money pit. The preferred supplier contracts is just one example of how the people in charge don't have a clue...and don't value the money given to them as they didn't have to earn it!

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By *MD47 OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Is there a part of the NHS in any part of the UK that isn't screwed? It's a money pit. The preferred supplier contracts is just one example of how the people in charge don't have a clue...and don't value the money given to them as they didn't have to earn it! "

The issue is the NHS is still living in the past with a lot of the way it manages itself. The same for a lot of local councils and Gov departments.

No matter how much they try to fix it they just cant get past these people who dont want to see change. The "This is the way we have done it for years.." arggghhh I hate that type so much.

Anyway we could have a debate on the NHS itself and still never come up with a conclusion on what to do.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Labour in Scotland allowed NHS Scotland access to the Procurement Scotland/ Scotland Excel framework where all the donkey work has been done. The whole of the public sector + charities (and some others) has access.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

The above notwithstanding, nothing will overcome stupidity/ corruption in purchasing departments.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Can you point to any site or graph that gives an example of how the oil is coming out? Because every indiciator shows it has declined drastically every single year. And I'm talking about actual production, not SNP fantasies.

Also, with regards to the NHS, there is a £450 million shortfall due to SNP policies. As I've also posted before on here the SNP have a council tax freeze and fee prescriptions etc, all things that suit middle earners like me but don't benefit the poorer members of society.

If you wish to discuss any of the above then let's go and I can expand on my points.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

I should add one final thing. I can give examples of how the SNP are making the poorest members of society in Scotland suffer purely to achieve their political aims, i.s. Westminster bad, SNP good.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He's the only one to stick by his word, he stated that if Scotland didn't vote for independence he would resign, so he did.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you wish to discuss any of the above then let's go and I can expand on my points."

'Lets go'? Bit on the aggressive side young lady. School gates? 3pm?

So, oil, here's one recent BBC (not exactly Indy friendly) article on how they've discovered a new method of extraction which will give us 'decades' of oil. http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-29342142

And here's another from August about the Clair Ridge discovery and Cameron's hush his visit. Interesting to note that after this discovery all staff were sent on full paid leave until the 19th September. http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/987/worlds-largest-oil-field-not-found-the-mystery-surrounding-the-prime-ministers-shetland-visit/

I'm actually in shetland most of next week and plan to do some chin wagging to see what's what up there.

Ian Wood also said only last year there was billions of pounds worth still in the North Sea https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-offshore-oil-and-gas-sir-ian-woods-interim-report-published

Yet all of a sudden come 8 days before the referendum he changed his mind and there wasn't any - and then magically 4 days after the referendum whaddayaknow - it's back again. Coincidentally, he holds most of the licences for fracking (so he's certainly got a good reason for playing down the oil value) which is about to take place under our houses and there's nothing we can do about it. You have no right, thanks to Westminster, to object.

Not even touched on the west coast yet which has vast untapped sources that we can't get near due to the small matter of the UKs entire nuclear arsenal and a wee smidge of Uncle Sams too, clogging up the Clyde.

To be honest, oil doesn't really bother me in the whole Indy debate. It's not the be all and end all of the countries economy. It's more the principle that every media outlet and expert in the pocket of the government bullshitted their way through the ref campaign that gets my goat.

NHS and 450m in cuts? I think the key word in the leaked meeting notes was 'possible'. There were savings made to various departments and those savings rolled onto other projects and areas of the NHS. The scot government has increased spending on health year on year since it came to power and privatises only 1% which is for the computer system they use. UKs privatisation presently is 6% and due to rise to 20%. If the TTIP goes ahead it will be more that opens the door to the whole of thenUK, Scotland too, being affected by private deals with US healthcare companies. Those deals are outwith any devolved power we hold over our NHS sober have no control or say in it.

I'll point you here though http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23258962 and see what's on the cards for down south. How will they get round that? Privatisation. What happens when they privatise down south? They use less government money, so their budget gets cut, when the money allocated to rUK gets cut that then affects what we get back up here, which then squeezes our budgets across the board.

Is the Scottish NHS perfect? No, it's not it has it's flaws and is a constant battle to keep it free at point of care. It's an ever changing beast and it probably could do with more money going it's way. We could raise tax here to pay for it, we have that power, minimal though it is, but how many people would welcome effectively being taxed twice to fund it?

So council tax freezes and free prescriptions don't benefit the poor? Getting stuff for free is now a hardship in itself? That's like saying having oil is a financial burden. I'm sure there are some people who could claim a benefit for council tax due to their situation that are maybe not getting it due to a freeze, that's a welfare issue however, something that is not devolved - and the way things are going doesn't look like it's going to be. As for prescriptions they're free to everyone - how on earth is that a hindrance? And while were on the subject of poor folks, the bedroom tax was hardly a shining light was it? So what did the bad scottish government do - they pumped £50m into cover everyone's subsidy so they didn't get kicked out their houses. Terrible behaviour.

Anyhoo, just in from work, knackered and D will be wondering why I've been downstairs so long (not that she usually minds when I'm 'downstairs' for long ??)

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By *rebor601cplCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh

Good post Boandaisy ,whether people wanted to vote yes or not ,Scottish people have been lied too, on a massive scale by the uk gov and our own politicians ie ,bitter together and don't get me on the media ,still onwards and upwards, lol.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"Good post Boandaisy ,whether people wanted to vote yes or not ,Scottish people have been lied too, on a massive scale by the uk gov and our own politicians ie ,bitter together and don't get me on the media ,still onwards and upwards, lol.

"
got to agree it was a really good post though we were also lied to by the freedom lot when they wanted to hug weans and not answer questions

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By *vbride1963TV/TS
over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow

got to agree it was a really good post though we were also lied to by the freedom lot when they wanted to hug weans and not answer questions "

The only way to make an informed decision was to do your own investigation which would have taken a long time a lot of effort . Farewell wee eck I hope Nicola fights well for devo powers

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By *vbride1963TV/TS
over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow

The end

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Alex Salmond - Resignation