FabSwingers.com forum: When a pledge is based on deceit

By *leasure dom OP Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Once a rattlesnake, aye a rattler.

Back in 1979, a Scottish labour MP fronted an exceptionally anti-democratic fix which was approved by all the unionist parties in Westminster.

Scotland voted for devolution, but the democratic mandate was denied by e crooks at Westminster in an act worthy of a third world fascist dictatorship.

"Vote no and we will give you more power," said the Tories. What we got was a betrayal and then a wasteland.

Then, the McCrone report, which showed we could be a wealthy nation, was buried.

When the Blair government reluctantly agreed to offer a limited-power parliament in an attempt to stem the advance of the SNP, it was grudged, insincere and bitterly opposed by the tories and many self-serving labour MP's.

Now, it has not taken more than a few hours for us to witness the evaporation of the insubstantial and substandard last minute "vow" of the Westminster party leaders - as proferred by the biggest liar and scoundrel in British politics, Scotland's shameful Malvoleo: Gordon Brown.

The next few months will be interesting.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I thought you meant when Salmond said 'I won't stand down' then stands down.

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By *w84TV/TS
over a year ago

Miliband said he won't accept the terms of Gordon Brown's plan.

Now that a majority of Scotland don't support the SNP, that should leave them with Labour who don't support significant devolution so they will lose out at the election.

That leaves Scotland with the Tories, the Lib Dems and UKIP.

It seems appropriate to this forum that beds have been made for people to lie in.

LOL

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By *leasure dom OP Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"I thought you meant when Salmond said 'I won't stand down' then stands down."

When did a labour MP or MSP ever choose to resign?

Scottish labour is this country's greatest burden and shame - even worse than sectarianism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just wish I could see the penny drop from the no voters when they hear that the " promise of more power " isn't gonna happen after all

Not even 24 hrs and already the excuses have started mr Cameron

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let's be honest. Nobody, yes or no, believed we would get more powers. We had people like Onny happy to go on and on and on perpetrating his lies but he is obviously a UKIP/ Tory supporter. The three party leaders signed the vow, not their parties. Only one of those will still be head of their party in nine months and that will be Cameron as prime minister of a UKIP/Tory government. Even if he wanted to fulfil his promise his party won't let him. He'll mend you, we are stuck with the bomb, austerity cuts, the bedroom tax and 1 in 5 child poverty.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

You dont like the partys ? Make your own if its based on what the people want they will side alongside or keep blaming everyone else me I believe all politicians to be toads and think the whole system needs shut down and from the ashes you may get true partys that speak for the people its your voice they are ment to mirror not just say things to appease

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree kola but unfortunately that's never going to happen

Yesterday was our only chance of real change

And sadly more never took it

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

I have to agree with the last 2 posters - never met an honest politician in my life and didn't believe the 'pledge' for one second either

But I also wasn't convinced by the yes campaign either.

Don't think for one second anything any politician tells you - you'll only get it if it benefits them!!

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I just wish I could see the penny drop from the no voters when they hear that the " promise of more power " isn't gonna happen after all

Not even 24 hrs and already the excuses have started mr Cameron

I am just glad that I did not see the penny drop with the YES voters that we would have been screwed in EU membership, Nato, UN etc. Then the fact that all this wealth we have is not actually there....yep that would have been one big penny.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"Agree kola but unfortunately that's never going to happen

Yesterday was our only chance of real change

And sadly more never took it

"
when the package and times rightIit will happen unfortunatly for yourself and the other folk of that way of thinking the majority didnt see enough to convince them Iin time things will change with the margin so tight you canbe assured that was not the last referendum heres to hohoping a better more clear option is given at the next

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Fat fingers n fones dont work im sure you got the jist though lol

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

London

Did anyone listen to Patrick Harvie on Sky News last night?

He talked long and deeply into the issue of "Scotland's Future".

He'd asked the SNP to base it more on fact than aspiration.

They ignored him.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have to agree with the last 2 posters - never met an honest politician in my life and didn't believe the 'pledge' for one second either

But I also wasn't convinced by the yes campaign either.

Don't think for one second anything any politician tells you - you'll only get it if it benefits them!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let's be honest. Nobody, yes or no, believed we would get more powers. We had people like Onny happy to go on and on and on perpetrating his lies but he is obviously a UKIP/ Tory supporter. The three party leaders signed the vow, not their parties. Only one of those will still be head of their party in nine months and that will be Cameron as prime minister of a UKIP/Tory government. Even if he wanted to fulfil his promise his party won't let him. He'll mend you, we are stuck with the bomb, austerity cuts, the bedroom tax and 1 in 5 child poverty. "

you clearly dont have much of a grasp of _nnys political beliefs/allegiances.

_nny, welcome to the club of being both left wing and right wing at the same time, i thought it was only me that left people this confused

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Thanks. I'm quite used to being abused for having principles as opposed to following one political party.

As it happens, I'm a long standing member of the Labour Party, just like my Dad (my Grandfather was a Communist), but that doesn't mean I'm 100% behind everything they do or say. I believe the way to make something which is already good, better is from within.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Already good?

For who?

The single mum living on £57 a week?

The pensioner who can't afford to turn his heating on at winter.. Remember that generation fought and died for this country too ... How do they get treated?

Alright for the fat cats in Westminster or the MPs charging £ 63 breakfast to his allowance

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By *lue4youCouple
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

The real loser in this is the kids that are gonna be born into poverty, in a land that could have been so rich, in a country once noted for it's moral fairness, that has somehow been lost in some cases on the No side, not due to true belief but due to the Me Me me I'm alright Jack fuck you ideology... mmm Thatcherism is still alive and well and breeding in our once proud land

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By *candiumWoman
over a year ago

oban

"I just wish I could see the penny drop from the no voters when they hear that the " promise of more power " isn't gonna happen after all

more power had nothing to do with why i was a No voter but i don;t want more power north of the border anyway.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Already good?

For who?

The single mum living on £57 a week?

The pensioner who can't afford to turn his heating on at winter.. Remember that generation fought and died for this country too ... How do they get treated?

Alright for the fat cats in Westminster or the MPs charging £ 63 breakfast to his allowance

£57 isn't the amount a single parent gets. You've used the premiums figure but failed to add on the allowances.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"The real loser in this is the kids that are gonna be born into poverty, in a land that could have been so rich, in a country once noted for it's moral fairness, that has somehow been lost in some cases on the No side, not due to true belief but due to the Me Me me I'm alright Jack fuck you ideology... mmm Thatcherism is still alive and well and breeding in our once proud land"

There are children being bron into poverty in EVERY country in the world. Just to get some FACTS for you. Norway, the biggest thing Salmond pushed has all that oil money but over the past few years Child Poverty has increased from 5 to 8 percent, over 78,000 children in poverty. Thats a hell of a lot for a country with Billions of money in reserves.

Also you are wrong, I am NOT alright Jack, far from it. You really think you have the answer why people voted NO. People will have their own reasons why they voted NO and people will also have their own reaons why they voted YES.

Simple enough to understand.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Already good?

For who?

The single mum living on £57 a week?

The pensioner who can't afford to turn his heating on at winter.. Remember that generation fought and died for this country too ... How do they get treated?

Alright for the fat cats in Westminster or the MPs charging £ 63 breakfast to his allowance

£57 isn't the amount a single parent gets. You've used the premiums figure but failed to add on the allowances."

My Mother in law has a special deal with Npower for OAPs she pays a small amount and can use all the electricty she wants, she never goes cold. She gets mobility benifit, she gets housing benifit, she does not pay for tv licence, she gets bus pass, she basically does not pay council tax. She has no other income apart from her pension.

As for the single mum on £57 a week, what other benifits does that person get? Hmmm go and have a look.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Who are you asking? Me or the person who made the claim a single parent only receives £57?

I know the answer, which is why I responded to their post.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Who are you asking? Me or the person who made the claim a single parent only receives £57?

I know the answer, which is why I responded to their post."

Oh not you the person making the post but I cant see the original poster for some reason....by your answer to them it was obvious you knew the answer...J

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

What's this 'next time' business?

Thought the referendum was it, for a generation at least.

It's not 'best of three' until we get the result we want.

It's over, the 'Yes' camp lost - deal with it. Had they won, would there be a 'next time' with them in charge? Not bloody likely.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Who are you asking? Me or the person who made the claim a single parent only receives £57?

I know the answer, which is why I responded to their post.

Oh not you the person making the post but I cant see the original poster for some reason....by your answer to them it was obvious you knew the answer...J"
the poster was in her bed

Great for your mum in law

Others ain't so clued up on how to get more benefits

As for the single mother again not everyone gets all the benefits it's what the government hands out to them and what your clued up on your entitlement

If your not ... Your screwed

I'm not saying voting yes would have stopped it overnight all I'm saying now is there's no chance of it changing

In the words of jim royal... More power my arse!

The excuses from Cameron have started already and it wasn't even 24hrs?

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"What's this 'next time' business?

Thought the referendum was it, for a generation at least.

It's not 'best of three' until we get the result we want.

It's over, the 'Yes' camp lost - deal with it. Had they won, would there be a 'next time' with them in charge? Not bloody likely."
when the people speak theres action I was a no but with the right set of circumstances I will be a yes you chose this party or that party and will vote again once the periods up when the people of scotland england ireland or wales decide they want a voice it will happen again

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By *vbride1963TV/TS
over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow

"What's this 'next time' business?

Thought the referendum was it, for a generation at least.

It's not 'best of three' until we get the result we want.

It's over, the 'Yes' camp lost - deal with it. Had they won, would there be a 'next time' with them in charge? Not bloody likely.when the people speak theres action I was a no but with the right set of circumstances I will be a yes you chose this party or that party and will vote again once the periods up when the people of scotland england ireland or wales decide they want a voice it will happen again "

Another vote in 16-20 years i would guess . Sooner if promises broken on devolved powers .

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By *hybutnaughtyoneWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

I have said this all along to the No voters I have met and had a decent constructive debate about the recent referendum, I said history WILL repeat itself! Same line was used in 2014 that was used in 1979.Within 24 hours of the No vote the Labour leader is now saying no to the Conservative leader about the time scale, all I say to the No voters that believed the crap that the Better Together Campaign promised us I hope you can hold your heads high when they fuck us over just like 1979!

I am not afraid to say I was in tears at 2am on friday morning when the first results starting coming in, I felt that at last we could have taken charge of our own destiny but obviously some people are happy with the staus quo, not me. I hope I see change for the better in my lifetime.

For all the people who think I'm alright Jack fuck the rest of you, I hope you never need the NHS or Social Security.

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By *abrina59TV/TS
over a year ago

moved to cuckold land

The yes campsign was based on utopia which wad never going to happen as everything still had to be .negotiated with everyone you saying is already wrong with the country

Example yes had won first negotiation we want to keep the pound whivh was main theme of yes campaign

Negotiation by nature is give & Take so they say ok we give you the pound & in return we get scotland keeps trident for next 20/30 years

As scotland needs the pound its agreed and the rest of uk now also sets scotlands interest rates

Well thats real change!!!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thing is, there is a silent majority out there that simply just don't like change and that's not just in politics!!! It's like a clay layer that's almost impossible to shift.

I'd bet any money if they called a snap referendum right now, the yes's would have it

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"I have said this all along to the No voters I have met and had a decent constructive debate about the recent referendum, I said history WILL repeat itself! Same line was used in 2014 that was used in 1979.Within 24 hours of the No vote the Labour leader is now saying no to the Conservative leader about the time scale, all I say to the No voters that believed the crap that the Better Together Campaign promised us I hope you can hold your heads high when they fuck us over just like 1979!

For all the people who think I'm alright Jack fuck the rest of you, I hope you never need the NHS or Social Security."
this isnt a fair statement YOU believed the yes campaign YOU believed that we were going to swim in oil and live happily ever after YOU believe that all no voters think im alright jack ....that dosnt make it true I believe that everyone voted for what they believe was best for scotland and like ive read from a few other no supporters im sick and tired of the traitor think of yourself image that seems to be eminating from the pro yes campaigners let me make it clear the majority of those who voted nodid so as they believe that was best for scotland believe me you knew my circumstances you would know Iim far from alright jack

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The folks that voted no and now are saying oooh I will vote yes next time are only trying to con us, just like their mates in London are already conning us. If ever england let's us go again for freedom then the hell no folks will still vote to fuck Scotland over, they will never change

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"The folks that voted no and now are saying oooh I will vote yes next time are only trying to con us, just like their mates in London are already conning us. If ever england let's us go again for freedom then the hell no folks will still vote to fuck Scotland over, they will never change"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/09/14 09:04:17]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The silent majority have spoken, can we move on now and start nominating people to do the ice bucket challenge again?

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By *hybutnaughtyoneWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

this isnt a fair statement YOU believed the yes campaign YOU believed that we were going to swim in oil and live happily ever after YOU believe that all no voters think im alright jack ....that dosnt make it true I believe that everyone voted for what they believe was best for scotland and like ive read from a few other no supporters im sick and tired of the traitor think of yourself image that seems to be eminating from the pro yes campaigners let me make it clear the majority of those who voted nodid so as they believe that was best for scotland believe me you knew my circumstances you would know Iim far from alright jack[/quote

You obviously don't know me!

I know it would be VERY difficult for an independent Scotland, I am not that naive to think it would be easy . Not the land of oil that you describe! As a nation we have so much more going for us!.

The point I was making is WESTMINSTER will fuck us over as they did in 1979! Because SOME of the people believe what they have promised.

It was a 55% No vote and I accept this fact , I have no plans to move to a different country as a result of this.

Not once have I ever called anyone a traitor for voting the way they wanted to.

The reference wasn't to all no voters about I'm alright Jack it was reference to an earlier post!

Am I wrong to feel strongly about this?

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

I've got to admit, I don't really care about the extra powers and if the opinion polls are to believed (given 99% of them had 'no' in the lead throughout the campaign) then I don't think the promise of them had much impact, if any, on the outcome.

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By *abrina59TV/TS
over a year ago

moved to cuckold land

As ive said before there is no right or wrong yas voters are not right and no wrong and it also same other way around

Its just the way politics is now adays we had politicians on the yes campaign lying to their supporters & politicians on the no campaign lying to their supporters

The notion that somehow those who voted yes are any more Scottish than those who voted no is absurd

They are just svots who wanted independence and nos where scots who didnt want independence

What happened if we gained independence & then Shetland decide they want an independence referendum cant deny them and if they vote yes all the oil goes to them where do we stop

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

" this isnt a fair statement YOU believed the yes campaign YOU believed that we were going to swim in oil and live happily ever after YOU believe that all no voters think im alright jack ....that dosnt make it true I believe that everyone voted for what they believe was best for scotland and like ive read from a few other no supporters im sick and tired of the traitor think of yourself image that seems to be eminating from the pro yes campaigners let me make it clear the majority of those who voted nodid so as they believe that was best for scotland believe me you knew my circumstances you would know Iim far from alright jack[/quote

You obviously don't know me!

I know it would be VERY difficult for an independent Scotland, I am not that naive to think it would be easy . Not the land of oil that you describe! As a nation we have so much more going for us!.

The point I was making is WESTMINSTER will fuck us over as they did in 1979! Because SOME of the people believe what they have promised.

It was a 55% No vote and I accept this fact , I have no plans to move to a different country as a result of this.

Not once have I ever called anyone a traitor for voting the way they wanted to.

The reference wasn't to all no voters about I'm alright Jack it was reference to an earlier post!

Am I wrong to feel strongly about this?

"
of course your not wrong you feel it was viable but to use hold your head high ....... I felt that at last we could take charge of our own destiny.....obviously folk are happy with the status quo.......I hope you never need nhs or social security

By voting no folk feel they are taking charge of their own destiny .....who said folk are happy with the status quo perhaps they aint but can see room for progress whereas with the yes campaigns proposal all they see is inconclusive half baked plans and maybe they do see the need for nhs and social services but couldnt understand how the yes campaign could deliver thisI believe most folk voted for what they believed was best for scotland Iin time better proposals may come and the vote may be diffrent but for now with what was on the tables I believe the right choices were made

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By *ifes journeyCouple
over a year ago

scotland

"I just wish I could see the penny drop from the no voters when they hear that the " promise of more power " isn't gonna happen after all

Not even 24 hrs and already the excuses have started mr Cameron

Maybe the no voters didn't vote to get more power from Westminster though. Maybe they voted that way because there was very little clarity on what will happen in the event of a Yes vote.

Westminster is currently been accused of not been clear on what powers they are going to give, yet the whole of the Yes campaign was blurred on what would happen after a Yes vote. They just said it would be better, No mention of how they would do this.

BUT, having said all that, Westminster politicians and the SNP politicians fighting for independence have one thing in common - They lie.

For decades, history has shown us that all of them have lied and been deceitful to the people they serve.

Unfortunately its human nature that those people who support a particular stance can often filter out the negatives from the side they support, we all do it to an extent.

There would of been similar threads if the vote had gone the other way - ie, wanting Salmond to stick to his promises/back tracking etc.

Lets all unite and ensure that the bassa's do what they said they would.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As far as im concerned white papers are drafts that are meant to be ideas and meant to be picked apart and negotiated and changed.

The question on the ballot was simple.

Do you think Scotland should be an independent nation. 45% do 55% don't.

Take what you will from that.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"As far as im concerned white papers are drafts that are meant to be ideas and meant to be picked apart and negotiated and changed.

The question on the ballot was simple.

Do you think Scotland should be an independent nation. 45% do 55% don't.

Take what you will from that. "
and the independance was to be against the proposal lol or could we have said no now you have shown your actual plan I want the union facts are facts folk didnt like the lack of clear concise reasoning

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