FabSwingers.com forum: The 'Official' Forum Referendum Thread

By *ezebel OP Woman
over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest

So many threads on this already and we need to stop the forum getting flooded by keeping all the Referendum posts on one thread.

Can you all post your Referendum comments on here now please.

Thank ya kindly

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"So many threads on this already and we need to stop the forum getting flooded by keeping all the Referendum posts on one thread.

Can you all post your Referendum comments on here now please.

Thank ya kindly

Sorry dont agree with this at all. This is such an important decision that the people of Scotland are making. The other threads will drop and can basically be closed off as we vote at 7am in the morning. Closing the THANK YOU thread was annoying. Saying thanks is not a debate/discussion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So many threads on this already and we need to stop the forum getting flooded by keeping all the Referendum posts on one thread.

Can you all post your Referendum comments on here now please.

Thank ya kindly

Totally do not agree open forum surly you can't say what to post and where?

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By *ezebel OP Woman
over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest

Admin have instructed us to keep all the referendum posts on one thread in each forum.

If you disagree then the best thing to do is contact them directly using the CONTACT link at the bottom of the page.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Shag .........pmsl

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By *ezebel OP Woman
over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest

"Shag .........pmsl"

Bugger off

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And I thought the BBC were bad !

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Well thank you everyone that took part in the debate/discussion no matter if your Yes or No voters.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All the best you lot what will be will be I have my passport ready lmao.

What's people's thoughts so close to the event.

Passport for black pudding supper lol

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By *rsKandMrJCouple
over a year ago

West Dunbartonshire ish

freedom of speech all gone noo then hey ho am sick of it all anyway

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

To be honest there are a fair few cluttering up the place this could be a helpful thing keep the debate in one place easier to find

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dose that mean is english will be classed as foreigners and would you still meet is foreigners lol

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By *eonardo Da VinciMan
over a year ago

manchester

I am voting No! There is no reason to jeopadize the future of Scottish families. We are doing OK!

A yes vote will alienate scots, generate divisions, hatred and business competition. Prices will rise, taxes will rise, poverty will increase, pensions will beunder threat.

Dont be blinded by the nationalists fascade! They do not havethe answers!

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By *awty_MissDynomiteNo1Woman
over a year ago

No idea, I'm lost. Damn Sat nav!

If they wernt allowing freedom of speech they wouldnt have set up this post

it makes sence to read about it all in one post than on many .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Here here I don't see any communication being blocked freedom of speech.............

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"If they wernt allowing freedom of speech they wouldnt have set up this post

it makes sence to read about it all in one post than on many .

Thanks for your input and the support of the mods. Now please feel free to post your _iews on Yes / No as I feel they have been missing from the various threads over the past few days.

Thanks

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By *awty_MissDynomiteNo1Woman
over a year ago

No idea, I'm lost. Damn Sat nav!

"If they wernt allowing freedom of speech they wouldnt have set up this post

it makes sence to read about it all in one post than on many .

Thanks for your input and the support of the mods. Now please feel free to post your _iews on Yes / No as I feel they have been missing from the various threads over the past few days.

Thanks

"
No thanks my _iews il keep to myself .

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I am voting No! There is no reason to jeopadize the future of Scottish families. We are doing OK!

A yes vote will alienate scots, generate divisions, hatred and business competition. Prices will rise, taxes will rise, poverty will increase, pensions will beunder threat.

Dont be blinded by the nationalists fascade! They do not havethe answers!

We are already alienated. look around at all the awful things happening. Today i saw a photo of a Yes campaigner in Edinburgh burning a Union Flag. Such disrespect did him no favours nor his cause.

I sent the photo to Yes Scotland facebook page and asked them to publish it and condemn this act but nothing was done.

My 18 year old father almost died in France in 1944 fighting under that flag, his 2 brothers also wounded, his two cousins died in the RAF, one a fighter pilot who lost his life in the Battle of Britain defending the skies over London so this makes me extremely angry and upset.

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow

Seems a peculiar decision to make, less than 12 hours before the polls open.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If they wernt allowing freedom of speech they wouldnt have set up this post

it makes sence to read about it all in one post than on many .

Thanks for your input and the support of the mods. Now please feel free to post your _iews on Yes / No as I feel they have been missing from the various threads over the past few days.

Thanks

I believe as many others on here would agree tomorrow there is a ballot box that when we tick whatever box it's total discretion ?? So if anyone on here including myself don't wish to debate it's entirely up to each individual. Freedom of speech? ?

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow (for now)

"If they wernt allowing freedom of speech they wouldnt have set up this post

it makes sence to read about it all in one post than on many .

Thanks for your input and the support of the mods. Now please feel free to post your _iews on Yes / No as I feel they have been missing from the various threads over the past few days.

Thanks

Remember you tick to vote yes

Or use a cross to vote no.

COUGH.

Geek note: a tick will result in a spoiled vote.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Latest update is that, due to an anticipated high turnout, those voting No should do so on Thursday whilst those voting Yes should attend on Friday

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If they wernt allowing freedom of speech they wouldnt have set up this post

it makes sence to read about it all in one post than on many .

Thanks for your input and the support of the mods. Now please feel free to post your _iews on Yes / No as I feel they have been missing from the various threads over the past few days.

Thanks

Remember you tick to vote yes

Or use a cross to vote no.

COUGH.

Geek note: a tick will result in a spoiled vote."

It's better writing a tick than writing what I was going too JOKE

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

"Latest update is that, due to an anticipated high turnout, those voting No should do so on Thursday whilst those voting Yes should attend on Friday

That's naughty Onny - but made me laugh, a lot!

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"If they wernt allowing freedom of speech they wouldnt have set up this post

it makes sence to read about it all in one post than on many .

Thanks for your input and the support of the mods. Now please feel free to post your _iews on Yes / No as I feel they have been missing from the various threads over the past few days.

Thanks

No thanks my _iews il keep to myself ."

Well thanks for taking time to post anyway, I am sure we will see you posting again....

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By *awty_MissDynomiteNo1Woman
over a year ago

No idea, I'm lost. Damn Sat nav!

"If they wernt allowing freedom of speech they wouldnt have set up this post

it makes sence to read about it all in one post than on many .

Thanks for your input and the support of the mods. Now please feel free to post your _iews on Yes / No as I feel they have been missing from the various threads over the past few days.

Thanks

No thanks my _iews il keep to myself .

Well thanks for taking time to post anyway, I am sure we will see you posting again...."

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow (for now)

"If they wernt allowing freedom of speech they wouldnt have set up this post

it makes sence to read about it all in one post than on many .

Thanks for your input and the support of the mods. Now please feel free to post your _iews on Yes / No as I feel they have been missing from the various threads over the past few days.

Thanks

Remember you tick to vote yes

Or use a cross to vote no.

COUGH.

Geek note: a tick will result in a spoiled vote.

It's better writing a tick than writing what I was going too JOKE

Sorry couldn't resist. Seen some lovely conspiracy theories about the supplied writing implements. .

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"If they wernt allowing freedom of speech they wouldnt have set up this post

it makes sence to read about it all in one post than on many .

Thanks for your input and the support of the mods. Now please feel free to post your _iews on Yes / No as I feel they have been missing from the various threads over the past few days.

Thanks

Remember you tick to vote yes

Or use a cross to vote no.

COUGH.

Geek note: a tick will result in a spoiled vote.

It's better writing a tick than writing what I was going too JOKE

Sorry couldn't resist. Seen some lovely conspiracy theories about the supplied writing implements. ."

The one I had read was about people going to put the word FREEDOM on the papers, good on them, the more that do it the better but it will end up with a spoilt vote.

Then again I do find it distrubing that folk are being advised to take their own pen etc etc. Why risk screwing up your vote. They should just follow the procedure to be safe.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

that gordon brown final speech.... wow!!!!

that alex salmond final speech.... meh!!!!

I know which side I think had a better final day going into tomorrow....

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By *berdeenGuy1979Man
over a year ago

aberdeen

From what ive been told by someone who has been involved with counts before, assuming the ballot papers are treated the same as in an election, if it is clearly indicated which choice is selected it will be counted even if other things are written on it. Same applies if you tick instead of cross.

I have to say though the whole bring a pen thing is just ridiculous in my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So many threads on this already and we need to stop the forum getting flooded by keeping all the Referendum posts on one thread.

Can you all post your Referendum comments on here now please.

Thank ya kindly

"
you're from south Manchester,if you Don't like seeing things about the scottish referendum then u shouldn't come to the scottish forum,go to the uk forum if it annoys you that much

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"From what ive been told by someone who has been involved with counts before, assuming the ballot papers are treated the same as in an election, if it is clearly indicated which choice is selected it will be counted even if other things are written on it. Same applies if you tick instead of cross.

I have to say though the whole bring a pen thing is just ridiculous in my opinion."

A void ballot paper is

"A: Any paper which indicates a vote in favour of none or both answers to the referendum question "Should Scotland be an independent country?".

Any paper on which anything is written or marked which could identify the voter."

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

After talking to some Yes campaigners who obviously need FREEDOM to buy a bar of soap rather than another bottle of Buckfast I reminded them that the correct spelling for a yes voter was "en-oh!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

not voting for salmond. we can get rid of him at the next election. We can get rid of Westminster, Cameron, Farage and Boris, Tomorrow. Yes, yes, yes.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"So many threads on this already and we need to stop the forum getting flooded by keeping all the Referendum posts on one thread.

Can you all post your Referendum comments on here now please.

Thank ya kindly

you're from south Manchester,if you Don't like seeing things about the scottish referendum then u shouldn't come to the scottish forum,go to the uk forum if it annoys you that much"

She is the mod. She goes on all forums

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"not voting for salmond. we can get rid of him at the next election. We can get rid of Westminster, Cameron, Farage and Boris, Tomorrow. Yes, yes, yes. "

Thing is we could get Ruth Davidson and the Tories in power in Scotland - technically possible then what?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"not voting for salmond. we can get rid of him at the next election. We can get rid of Westminster, Cameron, Farage and Boris, Tomorrow. Yes, yes, yes.

Thing is we could get Ruth Davidson and the Tories in power in Scotland - technically possible then what?"

That's the problem. Scotland is still an incredibly (small c) conservative country. Look at the general attitude towards sex.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"not voting for salmond. we can get rid of him at the next election. We can get rid of Westminster, Cameron, Farage and Boris, Tomorrow. Yes, yes, yes. "

The thing is that all the things that have been promised has been by the Wee Eck SNP MOB. They will then go on (if YES vote) to negotiate for the country (he will be a smug little man). If they then loose the next election who ever wins it will be stuck with the mess that the SNP would have created.

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"not voting for salmond. we can get rid of him at the next election. We can get rid of Westminster, Cameron, Farage and Boris, Tomorrow. Yes, yes, yes.

Thing is we could get Ruth Davidson and the Tories in power in Scotland - technically possible then what?"

I reckon it's about as likely as David Cameron and George Osborne 69ing each other at a Downing St press conference whilst announcing their joint defection to the Communist Party.

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By *andemanMan
over a year ago

bedforshire

Channel 4 pole of Scots living outside Scotland (people like me) 46% yes 54% no. Still pissed off that I can not vote for my own countries future.

And yes it would be a no from me.

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By *aucy MikeCouple
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"I am voting No! There is no reason to jeopadize the future of Scottish families. We are doing OK!

Would you like to come to the area we live in and tell the families having to use the 3 food banks and soup kitchen that we are doing ok?! I think not! People be sensible, this has nothing to do with voting for the SNP but for the people of Scotland. And as for going on a rant about some idiot burning the union flag and bringing up military history, there are a lot of us who could do that having had 5 generations of my immediate family in various parts of the armed forces. One who's now practically in a vegetative state having been sent somewhere our soldiers should never have been! He'd be voting YES if he could and never voted SNP in his life!

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I am voting No! There is no reason to jeopadize the future of Scottish families. We are doing OK!

If you think that the SNP will do something about the food banks then your mistaken. WHy have they not done something about it now? They have the purse string for a hell of a lot in Scotland.

If you check a lot of the councils have been sending people to food banks, why is that? Well they have not been allowed to raise council tax for a good number of years so they cant fund the local services or help out.

Even Norway with the Billions in its Oil fund has 78,000 children in poverty (figures from Norwegian Gov) and has foodbanks, they have seen an increase from 5 to 8 percent over 2 years. This shows that MONEY will not solve things alone.

We have to face the fact that there are people and areas that will never, no matter how much money is spent on them come out of what is deemed as poverty, thats the way life is. I wish it wasnt.

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By *andemanMan
over a year ago

bedforshire

"I am voting No! There is no reason to jeopadize the future of Scottish families. We are doing OK!

My sincere best wishes for a brave man who as you say went somewhere he should not at the behest of his country in the hands of a fool.

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By *aucy MikeCouple
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"I am voting No! There is no reason to jeopadize the future of Scottish families. We are doing OK!

If you think that the SNP will do something about the food banks then your mistaken. WHy have they not done something about it now? They have the purse string for a hell of a lot in Scotland.

We have to face the fact that there are people and areas that will never, no matter how much money is spent on them come out of what is deemed as poverty, thats the way life is. I wish it wasnt."

If you take the time to read my post properly I never once said the SNP would do ANYTHING! I said it wasn't about voting for them.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

If you take the time to read my post properly I never once said the SNP would do ANYTHING! I said it wasn't about voting for them."

The SNP are the ones in power in Scotland at the momemnt. They have the power to do something about it. The amount of money that was spent on the Edinburgh tram bailout would have went a hell of a long way to sorting out some of these issues.

Its not all down to Westminster. If I was a conspiracy person I might think that someone up here did not want to do anything, but I will leave that all for them to ponder over.

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By *andemanMan
over a year ago

bedforshire

Food banks are a charity response to an economic system that sees people as cogs in a wheel and not as people.

The SNP nor any of the other political parties have suggested changing the system to stop this. Salmon wants low corporation tax. This is the race to the bottom that will make more food banks inevitable. It is also a recipe for tax dodging he is proposing to use the very same economic sstrategy that tories always use. Trickle down economics. The scraps from the masters table. Kaynsian economics is filter up. why do people think independence will change any of the things we are so angry about. We want a say in how our country is run. But what difference will it actually make to be ignored by Holyrood over being ignored by Westminster?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" The SNP are the ones in power in Scotland at the momemnt. They have the power to do something about it. The amount of money that was spent on the Edinburgh tram bailout would have went a hell of a long way to sorting out some of these issues.

Its not all down to Westminster. If I was a conspiracy person I might think that someone up here did not want to do anything, but I will leave that all for them to ponder over."

This post shows how contradictory you are, on one hand you mention in a post above that no matter how much money is thrown some people will always be like that then here you say tram bailout money will save them. I knew if you were left to post away you'd shoot yourself in the foot. Happy limping to vote

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Food banks are a charity response to an economic system that sees people as cogs in a wheel and not as people.

Another contradictory post. Its enviable that we will have an English posh boy led government next, a vote for no is a vote for UKIP Tory and Labour Eton elite. At least in a new independent Scotland we will be empowered, good or bad it will be a Scottish government voted for by Scottish people to run Scotland.

I also feel sad that you're not allowed a vote, even sadder that your opinion won't count on a ballot paper cos you don't live here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ive had a very serious think about what may result after the vote. Ive decided to actually put my money where my mouth is. Im slowly building up to a career offshore in logistics and have decided if we go Indy Ill stay and pay the 40%+ tax band unless I see any policies that I deem overly harmful to my childs wellbeing. In event of a no I will once again be leaving the Homeland as soon as I can afford it. It's pureky due to apathy towards westminister, the uk media (which I have mostly shunned for several years....you cant avoid everything) and I quite fancy a change of culture too

Best of luck to Scotland whatwver she chooses x

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Im tired of hearing all the moans about the uk answer me this why do those leaving their countrys come here passing through major european countrys is it because they rnjoy being oppressed or want to squirm under the torys boot? Or is it because the uk is a desirable place to be in comparison to many many countrys around the globe yes scotland has been given the short end of the stick on occasions believe it or not in time I would want scotlands independance but right now with only pipedreams on offer no thanks as for those who will leave if they dont get there way we will miss you honest im scottish no matter the result if independance is voted in I will still be here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Dose that mean is english will be classed as foreigners and would you still meet is foreigners lol

Foreigners yes YES voters no

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

Well, it looks like MPs of all parties in Westminster have rejected the three leaders' vow to continue with the Barnett formula, stating they will block it and kill it.

So, the famous "vow" is broken already - less than 48 hours after it was published. Surely this tells you all you need to know about the DevoMax con and the idea that we're "better together". It was only another empty promise they never intended to keep in order to stop you smashing their corrupt system. If they were genuine, Scotland would already have these extra powers - so why are we not already better together?

Make no mistake... if you vote NO, there will be no DevoMax - no extra powers - nothing will change - you'll just get more of the same and you'll only have yourselves to blame.

There's a growing body of opinion in Westminster that Scotland needs to be put in its place and no longer given "freebies" - summed up by one MP who said: "If and when the Scots 'bottle it' on 18th September and vote no, they will see a stronger English voice because the people of England have had enough of Scottish self-indulgence."

Don't buy the Westminster machine's con yet again - don't bottle it - hold your nerve and vote YES... feel the fear, face it down and trust in your own abilities - you'll be amazed at what you're capable of.

Good luck from a friend south of the border!

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

[Removed by poster at 18/09/14 10:00:40]

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Wow just found this new product called bringlings they are amazing you just cant do without at least one just send me your card details will send you one ifand when they become available ....how much.... does that matter you need it is it safe ..... does that matter you need it just take a leap of faith .....dont know me or my agenda .....so what ..... is this ringing any bells please stop with the bottle it comments takes just as strong a person to say no to anything as it does to say yes

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By *andemanMan
over a year ago

bedforshire

"Food banks are a charity response to an economic system that sees people as cogs in a wheel and not as people.

I also feel sad that you're not allowed a vote, even sadder that your opinion won't count on a ballot paper cos you don't live here"

So a St. Andrews elite?

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By *andemanMan
over a year ago

bedforshire

"Food banks are a charity response to an economic system that sees people as cogs in a wheel and not as people.

I also feel sad that you're not allowed a vote, even sadder that your opinion won't count on a ballot paper cos you don't live here"

I will take you at your word and say thank you.

And to paraphrase a Irish Australian they can take my vote but they will never take my Voice!

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"... stop with the bottle it comments.."

Are you telling me to can it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Food banks are a charity response to an economic system that sees people as cogs in a wheel and not as people.

I also feel sad that you're not allowed a vote, even sadder that your opinion won't count on a ballot paper cos you don't live here

I will take you at your word and say thank you.

And to paraphrase a blue faced Irish Australian midget they can take my vote but they will never take my Voice!"

fixed that for you

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By *andemanMan
over a year ago

bedforshire

"Im tired of hearing all the moans about the uk answer me this why do those leaving their countrys come here passing through major european countrys is it because they rnjoy being oppressed or want to squirm under the torys boot? Or is it because the uk is a desirable place to be in comparison to many many countrys around the globe yes scotland has been given the short end of the stick on occasions believe it or not in time I would want scotlands independance but right now with only pipedreams on offer no thanks as for those who will leave if they dont get there way we will miss you honest im scottish no matter the result if independance is voted in I will still be here "

This lie propoogeted by wee eck and his cronies that any Scot outside of Scotland is an Economic opportunist and my implication a traitor is discusting and for a man who read Scotish History at St. Andrews a shocking lack of understanding of our people's history.

What ever the outcome and I pray for Neigh we as a people must unite behind it come what may. If we do not we hand our enemies a great victory on a plate!

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By *andemanMan
over a year ago

bedforshire

"Well, it looks like MPs of all parties in Westminster have rejected the three leaders' vow to continue with the Barnett formula, stating they will block it and kill it.

Make no mistake... if you vote NO, there will be no DevoMax - no extra powers - nothing will change - you'll just get more of the same and you'll only have yourselves to blame.

Good luck from a friend south of the border!

The Vow will go throw it has to. If it were to be blocked after a no vote than wee eck would declare UDI and even the majority of the No camp would support him. The toffs know this and so by whip and threat and physical violence if it must. They will make good on the Vow.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What ever the outcome and I pray for Neigh we as a people must unite behind it come what may. If we do not we hand our enemies a great victory on a plate!"

an even greater victory than ruling us from london for 307 years ? is such a thing possible ?

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"Well, it looks like MPs of all parties in Westminster have rejected the three leaders' vow to continue with the Barnett formula, stating they will block it and kill it.

Make no mistake... if you vote NO, there will be no DevoMax - no extra powers - nothing will change - you'll just get more of the same and you'll only have yourselves to blame.

Good luck from a friend south of the border!

_______________

"They will make good on the Vow." Wot!... you really believe that?!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

There will be some Tories who'll vote against it. Possibly some Lib Dems and some Plaid and Ulsterfolk. Who knows how the SNP will vote?

There'll still be enough for a majority.

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By *illy7239Man
over a year ago

Stenhousemuir

We have all seen what the yes voters do to the no signs up and down the country imagin what they will do to the country if they get in.

The scottish government only a few months ago completely ignored 87% of the scottish public and pushed through an unwanted law even the police force said its unworkable but wee eck and mr macaskil didnt liaten to scottish voters then so why give them more room to do what they fancy not me ! VOTE NO to pay less Tax VOTE NO to to keep scottish people in jobs!

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By *andemanMan
over a year ago

bedforshire

"Well, it looks like MPs of all parties in Westminster have rejected the three leaders' vow to continue with the Barnett formula, stating they will block it and kill it.

Make no mistake... if you vote NO, there will be no DevoMax - no extra powers - nothing will change - you'll just get more of the same and you'll only have yourselves to blame.

Good luck from a friend south of the border!

_______________

"They will make good on the Vow." Wot!... you really believe that?!

YES the consequences of not doing so is far greater.

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By *ptimusDMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

I usually only put my political hat on when under the influence of drink or in the company of others so inclined, but this Scottish referendum business is really getting my back up.

There's a lot more to running a country than constantly harping on about North Sea oil, free tuition fees and free prescriptions.

The sad thing is that a good number of people that will be voting "No", aren't doing so because they've properly thought it through and have decided Scotland will be better off as an independent country. They're doing so because they want to put 2 fingers up at the Tories, who they can't stand since the days of Thatcher, who they believe was the cause of all Scotland's problems.

Of course, it would be ridiculous to argue that Scotland cannot be an independent country and manage its own affairs. There are countries like Tonga, Aruba, Guam, Cyprus, Grenada and even Malta that have nowhere as much resources and potential as Scotland.

The question is whether it can maintain its current level of public spending, be more prosperous and whether the Scots (and the British people more generally) would be better off if they leave the UK. To my mind, the answer is pretty clearly No, given the balance of probability.

The difference between a patriot and a nationalist is that a patriot loves his country for its virtues and what it does and can achieve. A nationalist on the other hand loves his country, no matter what it does, no matter how it does it and regardless of the outcomes of what it does.

Alex Salmond is very obviously a nationalist. The name SNP says it quite clearly. That is why apart from the facts that the Soltaire will continue to be the flag, and Edinbrugh the capital, of an independent Scotland, he has been extremely vague on how most other things will be taken care of. He is hoping on good fortune and the goodwill of other countries and institutions to smooth the path and aid the success of an independent Scotland.

He's been told an independent Scotland will not be allowed to use the Pound Sterling, because it is not only cheeky of him to expect a currency union after splitting from the UK, it will also be detrimental to the rest of the UK. What he's basically saying is that he wants the Bank of England to place its cast iron guarantee, behind the debts of Scottish banks and financial institutions and Scottish government debt and bonds, even though the UK will have absolutely no say in how these institutions are regulated, or how much the Scottish governemt borrows.

He's expecting a fast track admission into the EU, even though all the signs show that he'll have to join the queue like everyone else without a guarantee that they will ever be admitted.

He wants to abolish Trident and get the UK to remove its nuclear weapons from Scottish soil, but he is hoping for a defence agreement with NATO.

He is proposing that an independent Scotland will cut corporation tax by 3% to entice companies to remain in Scotland, which will mean less revenue for the government. According to most independent experts, he has over estimated the amount of oil left in the North Sea by over 14 million barrels, and he has used a very optimistic price range of between $99 - $128 per barrel to calculate oil revenue. Conveniently forgetting that the oil market is a very volatile one whose prices can be almost changed at will by the countries in OPEC by simply producing more or less crude as they wish to influence market forces.

So, basically, the basis for the endless riches he's saying Scots will have after independence is dodgy. Yet he is promising the provision of free childcare for three-to-four year olds, an increase in the carer's allowance, a promise that benefits, tax credits and the basic rate tax allowance will always keep up with rising costs (i.e. inflation), a £5 a week higher pension for new pensioners, and protection for NHS and education spending. On top of all this, Scotland will set up a rainy day oil fund (which implies a budget surplus, of course). Really? Where will all the money come from?

Perharps this is why he is wanting a currency union with the UK even after independence so that if things go pear shaped he can come cap-in-hand to the British Treasury, asking for a bale out.

For what it's worth, I'm predicting that when most Scots get into the polling booth and finally have to tick one of those boxes, they will come to their senses and vote "NO". And I'm also predicting that the margin will be wider than the current 48% - 52% in favour of the "NO" campaign that the polls are currently showing.

The Yes Campaign have shown more passion and enthusiasm which has seen their support in the polls go up. This was also helped by some people saying they're voting "Yes", when they're actually voting "No", because they fear of being branded unpatriotic by friends or family.

Another factor is that the Yes campaign have the support of most young Scots. Whilst passion and enthusiasm are good for campaigning, reliability is what actually wins votes on election day. And the young are generally not reliable.

Most older people have already voted via postal ballot and a significant number of them voted No. Those who haven't already voted, are much more likely to actually turn up today and vote, than the young nationalists who are more likely not to turn up.

So, come 7am tomorrow we'll find that the UK is still very much intact.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"I usually only put my political hat on when under the influence of drink or in the company of others so inclined, but this Scottish referendum business is really getting my back up.

There's a lot more to running a country than constantly harping on about North Sea oil, free tuition fees and free prescriptions.

He's expecting a fast track admission into the EU, even though all the signs show that he'll have to join the queue like everyone else without a guarantee that they will ever be admitted.

He wants to abolish Trident and get the UK to remove its nuclear weapons from Scottish soil, but he is hoping for a defence agreement with NATO.

Perharps this is why he is wanting a currency union with the UK even after independence so that if things go pear shaped he can come cap-in-hand to the British Treasury, asking for a bale out.

So, come 7am tomorrow we'll find that the UK is still very much intact."
I agree with most of this though talking to folk I would say the polls are about right I think its hard for anyone living outside of scotland to understand the diffrent hardships faced here as im sure we dont quite get other regions hardships im really not sure which way the vote will go and im fearful of one result but if thats the case so be itthe majority will have spoken

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By *yrshiremischiefMan
over a year ago

Kilmarnock

The sad thing is that a good number of people that will be voting "No", aren't doing so because they've properly thought it through...

Well, this is the bit that you got right. A happy accident I suspect!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OK,

My one political post for the day

Am I a proud Scotsman - Yes

Do I believe in an Independent Scotland - Yes

Do I want an Independent Scotland on the basis of a very flawed white paper using the negotiating skills of a crew of self aggrandising, conceited poltroons (look it up) - NO!!!!!!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Be Britain still to Britain true,

...Amang ourselves united;

But never but by British hands

...Maun British wrangs be righted.

Robert Burns, 1795

I am right, he is wrong.

Alex Salmond, Ad infinitum

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By *ptimusDMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"The sad thing is that a good number of people that will be voting "No", aren't doing so because they've properly thought it through...

Well, this is the bit that you got right. A happy accident I suspect! "

No points for spotting a typo that doesn't detract from the gist of the argument, and making it the entire thrust of yours.

You should join the SNP if you haven't already, you guys will get on quite well because they do something similar.

Hope is not a strategy for success. Facts are what they are. Believe them or not, their implications will manifest themselves in the fullness of time.

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By *andemanMan
over a year ago

bedforshire

"Be Britain still to Britain true,

...Amang ourselves united;

But never but by British hands

...Maun British wrangs be righted.

Robert Burns, 1795

I am right, he is wrong.

Alex Salmond, Ad infinitum"

Burns I know. But your final bit just to be clear are you suggesting Burns was wrong?

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

And it is still a No

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

If you take the time to read my post properly I never once said the SNP would do ANYTHING! I said it wasn't about voting for them.

Its not all down to Westminster. If I was a conspiracy person I might think that someone up here did not want to do anything, but I will leave that all for them to ponder over."

what about the obscene amount of money ..we scots tax payers are being made to pay for HS2...Which wont even come close to our border....the only place hs2 will benefit is the city of london

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By *aucy MikeCouple
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"OK,

My one political post for the day

Am I a proud Scotsman - Yes

Do I believe in an Independent Scotland - Yes

Do I want an Independent Scotland on the basis of a very flawed white paper using the negotiating skills of a crew of self aggrandising, conceited poltroons (look it up) - NO!!!!!!!!!!"

And there was us thinking in your choice of playmates you were a man of discerning taste. Shame its not in all things.

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By *atriandjoeCouple
over a year ago

Spain and Bristol

According to DNA, Welsh, Scotts and Western British are the real British holding around 70-75% of original Early Europeans blood.

Eastern British hold around 60%, as they have some Scandinavian, French and German blood.

So, difficult to understand why some Scotts do not want to be British, when they are the most British!

It is like people from Vienna want to separate from Austria.

Anyway, Vienna has no petrol, and Scotlands does..., so the referendum is maybe... The petrol just for us? yes or no...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Be Britain still to Britain true,

...Amang ourselves united;

But never but by British hands

...Maun British wrangs be righted.

Robert Burns, 1795

I am right, he is wrong.

Alex Salmond, Ad infinitum

Burns I know. But your final bit just to be clear are you suggesting Burns was wrong?"

Nope I am suggesting that Wee Eck is a know it all and they are regularly wrong

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im too sexy for a no too sexy for a no

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

If you take the time to read my post properly I never once said the SNP would do ANYTHING! I said it wasn't about voting for them.

Its not all down to Westminster. If I was a conspiracy person I might think that someone up here did not want to do anything, but I will leave that all for them to ponder over.

what about the obscene amount of money ..we scots tax payers are being made to pay for HS2...Which wont even come close to our border....the only place hs2 will benefit is the city of london "

What about the obscene amount of money we scots tax payers HAD to pay for the Edinburgh Trams? Some £500million pounds.....

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

If you take the time to read my post properly I never once said the SNP would do ANYTHING! I said it wasn't about voting for them.

Its not all down to Westminster. If I was a conspiracy person I might think that someone up here did not want to do anything, but I will leave that all for them to ponder over.

what about the obscene amount of money ..we scots tax payers are being made to pay for HS2...Which wont even come close to our border....the only place hs2 will benefit is the city of london "

It certainly won't come to Glasgow/ Edinburgh if you vote Yes.

Eck could have put the Forth Bridge money into upgrading Glasgow Carstairs Carlisle line but he chose to spent it reducing his journey home time.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Its not all down to Westminster. If I was a conspiracy person I might think that someone up here did not want to do anything, but I will leave that all for them to ponder over.

Oh you are a bundle of joy. Your true attitude shown in the posting the mods deleted. Tram money would certianly have helped it was £500million.

As for limping not at all I was proud to walk in and cast my vote early this morning. Oh and that £500million was for only part of a tram system, they could not even finish it. Total cost £749 million and its still quicker to goto the airport by bus.

LMFAO

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

OK I know passions are running high but don't have a pop at Admin for not getting to a report as fast as you would like.

Just report like everyone else does and let them check it out.

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By *cottybhoyMan
over a year ago

falkirk

Today is the very first time in a long time that an individual's vote in Scotland actually matters.

It is not a General Election where the Scottish people will have a Government and its' policies that we never voted for or wanted imposed upon us.

It is not about Salmond who is probably further right wing than Cameron and who has already shown that he can introduce laws contrary to Common Sense and Human Rights. His presence is temporary.

It is about the people of Scotland having the right to say whether we want to be governed by Westminster or not.

If there is a Yes vote, a future Scottish Government could decide to retain Trident (though I would hope it would not). It could decide to ally itself to the illegal wars that have been entered into and the unrest this continues to cause in the Middle East (again I would hope not).

And as for the nonsense about the pound - it is a currency collectively formed and owned by the people of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, including Scotland. Scotland has as much right to it as any other. It makes no sense in the event of a Yes vote to seek to have anything other than a collaborative monetary union.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

If we go independant we dont own the pound, we dont have a central bank. The UK will decide what it wants to do and if we do get a yes vote then it will be upto the UK not us.

We could use North Korean money or Russian? We could use any currency we want, that has never been denied. What we will not have is any say on that currency and we will be linked to their central banks simple enough.

Why not the US Dollar?

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By *andemanMan
over a year ago

bedforshire

"Be Britain still to Britain true,

...Amang ourselves united;

But never but by British hands

...Maun British wrangs be righted.

Robert Burns, 1795

I am right, he is wrong.

Alex Salmond, Ad infinitum

Burns I know. But your final bit just to be clear are you suggesting Burns was wrong?

Nope I am suggesting that Wee Eck is a know it all and they are regularly wrong"

YES sorry it's been a long day and it's not over yet!

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

As a forign nation would you guarentee that a piece of paper is worth this or that we have no central bank to buy against and the yes camp want the uk to bail us out by guarenteeing our paper is worth whatever cmon you cant have it all long tall and short of it we go independant we will be in direct competition with the uk why would they help us steal buisness this is one of many questions that just had rainbows and butterflys thrown at it

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"As a forign nation would you guarentee that a piece of paper is worth this or that we have no central bank to buy against and the yes camp want the uk to bail us out by guarenteeing our paper is worth whatever cmon you cant have it all long tall and short of it we go independant we will be in direct competition with the uk why would they help us steal buisness this is one of many questions that just had rainbows and butterflys thrown at it"

Too many unaswered questions and the white paper just does not add up at all. I wonder how many people on here actually read thruough it, even glanced at bits that have an effect on them?

It is spin at the highest level.

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

what about the obscene amount of money ..we scots tax payers are being made to pay for HS2...Which wont even come close to our border....the only place hs2 will benefit is the city of london

What about the obscene amount of money we scots tax payers HAD to pay for the Edinburgh Trams? Some £500million pounds....."

yes i will agree that 500 million would have been better spent ....but how can u liken that to scotland contributing to the estimated £42.6 billion for something that will at most reach manchester....ive heard it could eventually reach glasgow and edinburgh maybe...how much more will we have to pay.for that to happen ???.THATS WHAT I CALL OBSCENE

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"As a forign nation would you guarentee that a piece of paper is worth this or that ....."

No more than you would guarantee your neighbours mortgage.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

what about the obscene amount of money ..we scots tax payers are being made to pay for HS2...Which wont even come close to our border....the only place hs2 will benefit is the city of london

What about the obscene amount of money we scots tax payers HAD to pay for the Edinburgh Trams? Some £500million pounds.....

It is obscene. I dont agree with it. I did not agree with the Trams but I did not get a say on that at all. I wanted cross rail to go ahead but the SNP pulled the plug on that, I wanted the rail link to GLA but they pulled the plug on that.

I want to see an increase in council tax in areas that can afford it but its been frozen for a number of years by SNP.

I dont mind paying an extra 1p on income tax in order for it to be used to fund projects in Scotland but the SNP have not used that power.

I dont want free eye tests, I can afford them.

I dont want free prescriptions, I can afford the ones I need when I need them just now.

I dont agree with SNP for purchasing Prestwick airport, I think it will turn into a white elephant and end up costing Scotland millions.

There are things I do agree with like the Uni education, fantastic.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow (for now)

"I dont agree with SNP for purchasing Prestwick airport, I think it will turn into a white elephant and end up costing Scotland millions."

End up.. it already has

http://m.travelweekly.co.uk/Article.aspx?cat=news&id=48365

"She added that £5.5 million had been provided already since acquisition last year and the Scottish government would be required "to provide a further £3 million in operating support".

There will be nearly £7 million in capital investment - £4.5 million for repairs and £2.4 million to make improvements to the terminal building, including refurbishment of the duty free area."

Yet..

£0.5 million "found" for all the food banks in Scotland.

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By *unknSoulCouple
over a year ago

dumfries-ish

In 8 months the no collective will be governing the Scottish. parliament after the general election. A yes vote is not for the SNP only for independence.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow (for now)

"In 8 months the no collective will be governing the Scottish. parliament after the general election. A yes vote is not for the SNP only for independence."

The current Scottish government will run until 5th of May 2016.

Mr Salmond has already stated that he will see out his full term.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

I dont want free eye tests, I can afford them.

I dont want free prescriptions, I can afford the ones I need when I need them just now.

Then you are very fortunate. Not everyone can afford them, particularly when you need several different tablets per day. Before they abolished the charges, it was costing £6 per item, not per prescription. Those who weren't exempt often had to make a choice about which tablets they really needed and which could be left. I recall vividly the feeling of dread getting 5 items and being too embarrassed to tell the GP I couldnt afford to pay for them all.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"In 8 months the no collective will be governing the Scottish. parliament after the general election. A yes vote is not for the SNP only for independence.

The current Scottish government will run until 5th of May 2016.

Mr Salmond has already stated that he will see out his full term.

Not if the SNP have their way. They're an unforgiving bunch.

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By *unknSoulCouple
over a year ago

dumfries-ish

"In 8 months the no collective will be governing the Scottish. parliament after the general election. A yes vote is not for the SNP only for independence.

The current Scottish government will run until 5th of May 2016.

Mr Salmond has already stated that he will see out his full term.

You are correct in what he states. Still stand by what I say. After the general election the no's will be in power and he will be gone.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow (for now)

I dont want free eye tests, I can afford them.

I dont want free prescriptions, I can afford the ones I need when I need them just now.

If you weren't on benefits, there was a 6 or 12 month prepayment certificate.

This covered all prescriptions made, no matter the number of items.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I dont want free eye tests, I can afford them.

I dont want free prescriptions, I can afford the ones I need when I need them just now.

Exactly I dont need them. The money should be spent on the people who need it much more than me. I am not suggesting for one minute everyone should pay.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

I dont want free eye tests, I can afford them.

I dont want free prescriptions, I can afford the ones I need when I need them just now.

If you weren't on benefits, there was a 6 or 12 month prepayment certificate.

This covered all prescriptions made, no matter the number of items. "

This still came at a cost so not as easy as you seem to think.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"In 8 months the no collective will be governing the Scottish. parliament after the general election. A yes vote is not for the SNP only for independence."

This is actually not true. The YES vote is for Independence based on the SNP WhitePaper. All the talks that would happen by UK and Scottish Gov would be based on this, this is the mandate you are giving them to work on if you voted YES.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what about the obscene amount of money ..we scots tax payers are being made to pay for HS2...Which wont even come close to our border....the only place hs2 will benefit is the city of london

What about the obscene amount of money we scots tax payers HAD to pay for the Edinburgh Trams? Some £500million pounds.....

I want to see an increase in council tax in areas that can afford it but its been frozen for a number of years by SNP.

I dont mind paying an extra 1p on income tax in order for it to be used to fund projects in Scotland but the SNP have not used that power.

I dont want free eye tests, I can afford them.

I dont want free prescriptions, I can afford the ones I need when I need them just now.

I dont agree with SNP for purchasing Prestwick airport, I think it will turn into a white elephant and end up costing Scotland millions.

There are things I do agree with like the Uni education, fantastic.

Are you me??? I could have written your post

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you voted?

I did. That's all folks

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

"Have you voted?

I did. That's all folks

Yes i have ....was a great feeling

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"Have you voted?

I did. That's all folks

Yes i have ....was a great feeling

I know exactly what you mean Bunkie.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was slightly emotional actually lol

Surprised myself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just listened to paolo nutinis iron sky song it reminded me I made the right choice

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was totally unprepared for the strong wave of emotion I felt today. I love my country, always have, always will. I'm beyond proud to be Scottish. From the mountains to the sea and everywhere in between, it's resources human, natural, industrial and cultural. Its people....strong, steadfast, humourous, generous and couthy. So today...I donned my Tammy and my Scottie dog brooch and gathered with my wee family. We shared a dram together and then walked in procession to our village hall to vote. The young ones in front.. their lives just beginning, besotted with each other and the growing "bump"... my unborn grandchild, our salute to the future. Us oldies dawdled along behind. An overwhelming sense of responsibility, a huge decision...but my belief is you can only go with your heart, whatever side of the fence you are on. I fear for the land I love.....fear the repercussions of our decision today whatever it may be. But my faith in Scotland and its people will always remain.

On my return home, the first thing to catch my eye was a painting I have in my hall bearing these words ....

" In this space we stand, our future an unknown and ever changing land. Our past like a shadow across the sand, all you've been and all you've done, the children and all that they will become."......and the tears came.

Here's tae us, wha's like us...

I said NO...as did my heart. May we go forward peacefully....whatever our fate.

Jintz x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

bloody hell jinty.... you just made me cry!! I went alone to vote, and with a huge sigh I looked at the ballot paper, said a wee prayer and made my mark... heres tae us wha's like us....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely beautifully said Jintz xxx

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

Well done everyone who voted. 100% turn out in some areas already. That's unheard of. No matter what the outcome, the people who live and work in Scotland (in the main) can be proud and stand tall.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"bloody hell jinty.... you just made me cry!! I went alone to vote, and with a huge sigh I looked at the ballot paper, said a wee prayer and made my mark... heres tae us wha's like us...."

Awe...you should have come with us! I looked at the ballot paper for ages before I made my mark. My charming son said "What took ye maw? Did ye no understand the question?" Skelp! Then a local wag outside on seeing my posh tammy toorie let out with "ffs...its Molly Weir!"....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was totally unprepared for the strong wave of emotion I felt today. I love my country, always have, always will. I'm beyond proud to be Scottish. From the mountains to the sea and everywhere in between, it's resources human, natural, industrial and cultural. Its people....strong, steadfast, humourous, generous and couthy. So today...I donned my Tammy and my Scottie dog brooch and gathered with my wee family. We shared a dram together and then walked in procession to our village hall to vote. The young ones in front.. their lives just beginning, besotted with each other and the growing "bump"... my unborn grandchild, our salute to the future. Us oldies dawdled along behind. An overwhelming sense of responsibility, a huge decision...but my belief is you can only go with your heart, whatever side of the fence you are on. I fear for the land I love.....fear the repercussions of our decision today whatever it may be. But my faith in Scotland and its people will always remain.

On my return home, the first thing to catch my eye was a painting I have in my hall bearing these words ....

Here's tae us, wha's like us...

I said NO...as did my heart. May we go forward peacefully....whatever our fate.

Jintz x"

Damn few, and they're all dead

slainte jinty

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have to admit that when i cast my vote it was with a heady mix of excitement and trepidation, I look on this as a measure of how momentous this day is for all of us.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"bloody hell jinty.... you just made me cry!! I went alone to vote, and with a huge sigh I looked at the ballot paper, said a wee prayer and made my mark... heres tae us wha's like us....

Lol Jinty

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow

I know it's often been said that this hasn't been about the colour of your politics, and I can appreciate that, but I have to say that I was horrified at the 2 recent appearances of Denis Canavan.

If it goes Yes, I just hope that the governments to be jump on his type from a great height. A referendum debate, and he's roaring about nationalisation and returning power to the unions. In many ways, a sad individual living in the past!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shivers running down my spine at the sight of those first ballot boxes entering the different centres... I just can't... Everyone getting ready to 'pairty tae freedom' and I'm almost in tears. For all those saying you're not Scottish if you're voting NO, it runs through my blood, my tears and I am so proud, but I am also proud to be British and the thought of not being able to say that again is quite simply, heartbreaking.

I hope you have all made the right decision in your own minds and haven't let ANYONE take advantage of your differing opinions no matter what your vote.

Much love my gorgeous fabbers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Shivers running down my spine at the sight of those first ballot boxes entering the different centres... I just can't... Everyone getting ready to 'pairty tae freedom' and I'm almost in tears. For all those saying you're not Scottish if you're voting NO, it runs through my blood, my tears and I am so proud, but I am also proud to be British and the thought of not being able to say that again is quite simply, heartbreaking.

I hope you have all made the right decision in your own minds and haven't let ANYONE take advantage of your differing opinions no matter what your vote.

Much love my gorgeous fabbers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hope you have all made the right decision in your own minds and haven't let ANYONE take advantage of your differing opinions no matter what your vote.

Much love my gorgeous fabbers

I share those sentiments... big hugs xx

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I know it's often been said that this hasn't been about the colour of your politics, and I can appreciate that, but I have to say that I was horrified at the 2 recent appearances of Denis Canavan.

That's why they kept him off the tv debates.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

I feel so excited!

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By *awty_MissDynomiteNo1Woman
over a year ago

No idea, I'm lost. Damn Sat nav!

On my return home, the first thing to catch my eye was a painting I have in my hall bearing these words ....

Here's tae us, wha's like us...

I said NO...as did my heart. May we go forward peacefully....whatever our fate.

Jintz x"
This was the 2nd post like this that brought a tear too my eyes today ...thanks jinty xx

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

Sky says yougov exit polls are 54% no and 46% yes.

No voters also complaining about the behaviour of the yes voters.

Yougov boss says 99% certain the No vote will win.

Still early days would have thought.

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By *yrshiremischiefMan
over a year ago

Kilmarnock

"The sad thing is that a good number of people that will be voting "No", aren't doing so because they've properly thought it through...

Well, this is the bit that you got right. A happy accident I suspect!

No points for spotting a typo that doesn't detract from the gist of the argument, and making it the entire thrust of yours.

You should join the SNP if you haven't already, you guys will get on quite well because they do something similar.

Hope is not a strategy for success. Facts are what they are. Believe them or not, their implications will manifest themselves in the fullness of time."

Hope is a strategy for success - as is the pragmatism, inventiveness, resourcefulness and creativity that this country of ours brings to the world. I cast my vote with hope and with a commitment to working as hard as I possibly can to make this work. Regardless of the outcome - I'll wake in the morning with the same trust in my countryfolk that I had today - and with the same hopes for the well being of our near neighbours.

With few exceptions, the debate by competing parties has been committed,challenging and respectful - and there's been an unprecedented engagement by the public - I hope that we can sustain that and make the public domain truly public.

You mis-call me. My politics aren't those of limitations and critique - they are of aspiration and opportunities. I do wish you well - regardless of whether a Yes vote is delivered tomorrow - or the next time.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"Sky says yougov exit polls are 54% no and 46% yes.

No voters also complaining about the behaviour of the yes voters.

Yougov boss says 99% certain the No vote will win.

Still early days would have thought."

It's far too early to call on it. There has been bad behaviour from both sides.

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By *yrshiremischiefMan
over a year ago

Kilmarnock

"The sad thing is that a good number of people that will be voting "No", aren't doing so because they've properly thought it through...

Well, this is the bit that you got right. A happy accident I suspect!

No points for spotting a typo that doesn't detract from the gist of the argument, and making it the entire thrust of yours.

You should join the SNP if you haven't already, you guys will get on quite well because they do something similar.

Hope is not a strategy for success. Facts are what they are. Believe them or not, their implications will manifest themselves in the fullness of time."

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

The Morning After by Christine de Luca

Let none wake despondent: one way

or another we have talked plainly,

tested ourselves, weighed up the sum

of our knowing, ta’en tent o scholars,

checked the balance sheet of risk and

fearlessness, of wisdom and of folly.

Was it about the powers we gain or how

we use them? We aim for more equality;

and for tomorrow to be more peaceful

than today; for fairness, opportunity,

the common weal; a hand stretched out

in ready hospitality.

It’s those unseen things that bind us,

not flag or battle-weary turf or tartan.

There are dragons to slay whatever happens:

poverty, false pride, snobbery, sectarian

schisms still hovering. But there’s

nothing broken that’s not repairable.

We’re a citizenry of bonnie fighters,

a gathered folk; a culture that imparts,

inspires, demands a rare devotion,

no back-tracking; that each should work

and play our several parts to bring about

the best in Scotland, an open heart.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"Sky says yougov exit polls are 54% no and 46% yes.

No voters also complaining about the behaviour of the yes voters.

Yougov boss says 99% certain the No vote will win.

Still early days would have thought.

It's far too early to call on it. There has been bad behaviour from both sides.

Yes, too early, have the no campaign daubed "vote yes, or else" on polling station walls?

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"Sky says yougov exit polls are 54% no and 46% yes.

No voters also complaining about the behaviour of the yes voters.

Yougov boss says 99% certain the No vote will win.

Still early days would have thought.

It's far too early to call on it. There has been bad behaviour from both sides.

Yes, too early, have the no campaign daubed "vote yes, or else" on polling station walls?

I dont know who did that. Same as I don't know who spray painted No over the Yes that was on the sides of a car. As I said, there has been bad behaviour from both sides.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Morning After by Christine de Luca

Let none wake despondent: one way

or another we have talked plainly,

tested ourselves, weighed up the sum

of our knowing, ta’en tent o scholars,

checked the balance sheet of risk and

fearlessness, of wisdom and of folly.

Was it about the powers we gain or how

we use them? We aim for more equality;

and for tomorrow to be more peaceful

than today; for fairness, opportunity,

the common weal; a hand stretched out

in ready hospitality.

It’s those unseen things that bind us,

not flag or battle-weary turf or tartan.

There are dragons to slay whatever happens:

poverty, false pride, snobbery, sectarian

schisms still hovering. But there’s

nothing broken that’s not repairable.

We’re a citizenry of bonnie fighters,

a gathered folk; a culture that imparts,

inspires, demands a rare devotion,

no back-tracking; that each should work

and play our several parts to bring about

the best in Scotland, an open heart."

aww sakes... more tears here

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"The Morning After by Christine de Luca

Let none wake despondent: one way

or another we have talked plainly,

tested ourselves, weighed up the sum

of our knowing, ta’en tent o scholars,

checked the balance sheet of risk and

fearlessness, of wisdom and of folly.

Was it about the powers we gain or how

we use them? We aim for more equality;

and for tomorrow to be more peaceful

than today; for fairness, opportunity,

the common weal; a hand stretched out

in ready hospitality.

It’s those unseen things that bind us,

not flag or battle-weary turf or tartan.

There are dragons to slay whatever happens:

poverty, false pride, snobbery, sectarian

schisms still hovering. But there’s

nothing broken that’s not repairable.

We’re a citizenry of bonnie fighters,

a gathered folk; a culture that imparts,

inspires, demands a rare devotion,

no back-tracking; that each should work

and play our several parts to bring about

the best in Scotland, an open heart.

aww sakes... more tears here"

I agree Avi.

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By *yrshiremischiefMan
over a year ago

Kilmarnock

"Sky says yougov exit polls are 54% no and 46% yes.

No voters also complaining about the behaviour of the yes voters.

Yougov boss says 99% certain the No vote will win.

Still early days would have thought.

It's far too early to call on it. There has been bad behaviour from both sides.

Yes, too early, have the no campaign daubed "vote yes, or else" on polling station walls?

I dont know who did that. Same as I don't know who spray painted No over the Yes that was on the sides of a car. As I said, there has been bad behaviour from both sides. "

Much as I condemn the behaviour of a few idiots - (actually - I reserve greater scorn for the politicians who sought to make capital from it - Ms Baillie deserves a special mention)I think that we should all be proud of the dignity and respect that we have shown for competing _iews and the right to hold them. I might wake up to a result that I didn't vote for - but I'll respect both it - and the people who made it - I'm sure we all will.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"Sky says yougov exit polls are 54% no and 46% yes.

No voters also complaining about the behaviour of the yes voters.

Yougov boss says 99% certain the No vote will win.

Still early days would have thought.

It's far too early to call on it. There has been bad behaviour from both sides.

Yes, too early, have the no campaign daubed "vote yes, or else" on polling station walls?

I dont know who did that. Same as I don't know who spray painted No over the Yes that was on the sides of a car. As I said, there has been bad behaviour from both sides.

Well said.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

Great point from Douglas Alexander.

Salmond can promise all he likes since he knows that when the deal is done, it's done and there's no going back.

In other words, you can't kick him out if it all goes pear-shaped. You're stuck with the result.

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By *w84TV/TS
over a year ago

The Guardian live feed, as always, is a bottomless blog of info.

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By *yrshiremischiefMan
over a year ago

Kilmarnock

"Great point from Douglas Alexander.

Salmond can promise all he likes since he knows that when the deal is done, it's done and there's no going back.

In other words, you can't kick him out if it all goes pear-shaped. You're stuck with the result."

No. Well - that's the first time that I've used that word today! We can kick Salmond out - we didn't vote for politicians today - we voted for something far more enduring.

As to Douglas Alexander - he oversaw an election that dis-enfranchised tens of thousands of voters and he was embroiled in the Westminster expenses scandal. More of a low water mark than a benchmark. (An earlier draft compared him unfavourably to his Sister Wendy, for whom I have a high regard, but I didn't think that was fair. OOPS!

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

Did Sean Connery get a vote?

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"Great point from Douglas Alexander.

Salmond can promise all he likes since he knows that when the deal is done, it's done and there's no going back.

In other words, you can't kick him out if it all goes pear-shaped. You're stuck with the result."

If it goes to a Yes result, there is no going back but we wouldn't be stuck with Salmond. He can be voted out. Do you really think the other parties wouldn't fight to run the next Government just because they fought on the Better Together side?

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"Did Sean Connery get a vote?"

No he didn't. He's not a resident of Scotland.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"Great point from Douglas Alexander.

Salmond can promise all he likes since he knows that when the deal is done, it's done and there's no going back.

In other words, you can't kick him out if it all goes pear-shaped. You're stuck with the result.

No. Well - that's the first time that I've used that word today! We can kick Salmond out - we didn't vote for politicians today - we voted for something far more enduring.

Re Salmond, yes, you can kick the Bishop of team Scotland out, but you're stuck with the result he presided over, hence, he can promise what he likes since he only has to be lucky once.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"Did Sean Connery get a vote?

No he didn't. He's not a resident of Scotland. "

Thought he'd have ditched the sunshine of Hollywood to give the campaign a boost.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Folks there has been some really good people on both sides and some bad. Tonight I had to go into the city and took a spin round Geroge Sq, well more of a crawl in the car as the place has 100s of folk with their flags. The police doing very well being stand offish. The booze was (prob still is) flowing. Some flares going off..all good natured but just at the side of it all some really stupid sub humans decided that they were going to set fire to the union flag, of course it got caught on flim by someone.

http://tiny.cc/f5memx

These people should be ashamed of themselves. If YES win then the rest of the UK will be our neighbourss, the Gov have to deal with them to secure things but if more of this hatred of burning of flags happens then god only knows how bad it will get for us all and the racial undertone it will set.

If this had been muslims burning the union flag last month people would have been calling for them to be arreseted and thrown in jail for treason.

Really sad way to show a so calld democratic nation.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"Did Sean Connery get a vote?

No he didn't. He's not a resident of Scotland.

Thought he'd have ditched the sunshine of Hollywood to give the campaign a boost."

As far as I'm aware he lives in Barbados or Jamaica.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Did Sean Connery get a vote?"

No neither did Andy Murray and I would suspect Brain Cox did not get one either.

Good old Sean not being hear for the count.....tut tut

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

Even if it's a no, the Scots get more power and better home rule.

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By *yrshiremischiefMan
over a year ago

Kilmarnock

"Did Sean Connery get a vote?"

Actually, he had 007 votes - oh come on, I know it is a rubbish joke - but there has to be a bit of lightness!

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Great point from Douglas Alexander.

Salmond can promise all he likes since he knows that when the deal is done, it's done and there's no going back.

In other words, you can't kick him out if it all goes pear-shaped. You're stuck with the result.

No. Well - that's the first time that I've used that word today! We can kick Salmond out - we didn't vote for politicians today - we voted for something far more enduring.

Re Salmond, yes, you can kick the Bishop of team Scotland out, but you're stuck with the result he presided over, hence, he can promise what he likes since he only has to be lucky once."

The issue is we would be stuck with the WhitePaper produce by the SNP gov. Any negotiations and spending is based on this. We are basically stuck with something that belongs in the kiddies section or the fantasy section of a book shop. 600 plus pages of pure drival with no real substance.

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Did Sean Connery get a vote?

Actually, he had 007 votes - oh come on, I know it is a rubbish joke - but there has to be a bit of lightness!"

Never Say Never...he might show up.....

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Even if it's a no, the Scots get more power and better home rule."

England had the chance but the assembly was voted down. I do believe in the regional assemblies and taking more power away from Westminster for all the regions in the UK as each are unique.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

Can't help but think that the set-up costs for an independent Scotland are huge.

Andrew Marr has just gone through a list of all that would need to be done and some of them never occurred to me.

Scottish foreign ministry, Scottish DVLA, Scottish passport office, Scottish energy ministry, Scottish Defence ministry and force, Scottish Inland revenue.......

Massive undertaking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

am astounded at the turnout figures, absolutely amazing how everyone has gotten behind this

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Can't help but think that the set-up costs for an independent Scotland are huge.

Andrew Marr has just gone through a list of all that would need to be done and some of them never occurred to me.

Scottish foreign ministry, Scottish DVLA, Scottish passport office, Scottish energy ministry, Scottish Defence ministry and force, Scottish Inland revenue.......

Massive undertaking."

Dont forget that they want to nationlise (spelling?) what would be the Royal Mail. The estimate for that would be £200million. Its in their WhitePaper.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"Great point from Douglas Alexander.

Salmond can promise all he likes since he knows that when the deal is done, it's done and there's no going back.

In other words, you can't kick him out if it all goes pear-shaped. You're stuck with the result.

No. Well - that's the first time that I've used that word today! We can kick Salmond out - we didn't vote for politicians today - we voted for something far more enduring.

Re Salmond, yes, you can kick the Bishop of team Scotland out, but you're stuck with the result he presided over, hence, he can promise what he likes since he only has to be lucky once.

Although it's nothing to do with an Englishman, Salmond's economics do sound fantasy land.

I would not want to get old in Salmond's Scotland.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"Even if it's a no, the Scots get more power and better home rule."

Do you really believe that? Already the Westminster politicians are kicking up a storm and it's unlikely what Cameron promised will go ahead. Cameron and the rest of them left it til last week before coming up to Scotland. Cameron stated before that he would not interfere with the process - obviously he thought it would be an overwhelming no. Neither do I believe he and his government think we are better together for the reasons stated this week. Everything smacked of desperation on their part. Gordon Brown, who I've met and actually found an extremely personable man, brought up the NHS last night. The leaflet that was shown was for NHS England, not Scotland.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"Can't help but think that the set-up costs for an independent Scotland are huge.

Andrew Marr has just gone through a list of all that would need to be done and some of them never occurred to me.

Scottish foreign ministry, Scottish DVLA, Scottish passport office, Scottish energy ministry, Scottish Defence ministry and force, Scottish Inland revenue.......

Massive undertaking.

Dont forget that they want to nationlise (spelling?) what would be the Royal Mail. The estimate for that would be £200million. Its in their WhitePaper."

More than before, I hope for the scots sake it's a no.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"Even if it's a no, the Scots get more power and better home rule.

Anyway, the dye has been cast and we now await the decision. I have been proud to have been involved in such a historical day.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"am astounded at the turnout figures, absolutely amazing how everyone has gotten behind this"

Absolutely Avi. It's created such a buzz around.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

around 97% they r saying.. absolutely brilliant, if we had figures like that at all elections, the country might be a different place anyway

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By *yrshiremischiefMan
over a year ago

Kilmarnock

"Great point from Douglas Alexander.

Salmond can promise all he likes since he knows that when the deal is done, it's done and there's no going back.

In other words, you can't kick him out if it all goes pear-shaped. You're stuck with the result.

No. Well - that's the first time that I've used that word today! We can kick Salmond out - we didn't vote for politicians today - we voted for something far more enduring.

Re Salmond, yes, you can kick the Bishop of team Scotland out, but you're stuck with the result he presided over, hence, he can promise what he likes since he only has to be lucky once.

I'm not counting on luck. Just to be clear - I am in essence, a Labour voter that can't vote Labour. I'm tired of their wars and ineptitude at managing the economy. I'm not especially nationalistic - (I'm conscious that Tony Blair - Fettes, started the new Crusades and that Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling led us all to the brink of bankruptcy, so I know our faults)

I also know that the recent SNP administrations have achieved far more than their predecessors - and I've made a leap of faith.

White papers are positional statements - starting points - I trust Salmond and Co more than Johann Lamont etc. as they seem to be brighter and more industrious.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"around 97% they r saying.. absolutely brilliant, if we had figures like that at all elections, the country might be a different place anyway"

That's so true.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"Even if it's a no, the Scots get more power and better home rule.

Anyway, the dye has been cast and we now await the decision. I have been proud to have been involved in such a historical day."

Salmond was desperate too. Making huge promises about 'social justice', welfare ect. In a polished way though.

Thing is, with an ageing population, a declining birth rate, fewer people of working age, year on year and, therefore, fewer tax-payers and no pound - how will it all be paid for?

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

White papers are positional statements - starting points - I trust Salmond and Co more than Johann Lamont etc. as they seem to be brighter and more industrious."

The WhitePaper is not a starting point, its the whole way they plan to fund all these things that they have promised. Its the SNP Gov masterplan. If people have ignored it then god help us all.

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By *yrshiremischiefMan
over a year ago

Kilmarnock

[Removed by poster at 19/09/14 00:25:14]

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"Lots of messages are now starting wit, 'Great point from...

Can we stop doing this as the man has never made a competent point much less a great one?"

Which person are you referring to?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We should back the socialists as one of them was apparently a swinger

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By *yrshiremischiefMan
over a year ago

Kilmarnock

"Lots of messages are now starting with, 'Great point from...

Can we stop doing this as the man has never made a competent point much less a great one?

Which person are you referring to?"

Mr Alexander

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Even if it's a no, the Scots get more power and better home rule.

Anyway, the dye has been cast and we now await the decision. I have been proud to have been involved in such a historical day.

Salmond was desperate too. Making huge promises about 'social justice', welfare ect. In a polished way though.

Thing is, with an ageing population, a declining birth rate, fewer people of working age, year on year and, therefore, fewer tax-payers and no pound - how will it all be paid for?"

One of the main things that SNP based their figures on was the price of oil. They based it on $113 dollars per barrell. This has fallen by $15 dollars PB. See below an extract from a news story posted in USA. So how much done will the SNP figures be off?

"Brent crude oil, the benchmark for world prices, has slid 14% in the past three months amid rising production in places like the U.S., Libya, Iraq and West Africa—and the belief that supplies will continue to outstrip demand."

They will reduce coperation tax (this has failed in Ireland and Irish are calling for it to be raised). They will get more women back into work to pay tax but if they dont earn more than £10k they will not pay tax..? Hmmm

It goes on and on.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

Got it

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By *yrshiremischiefMan
over a year ago

Kilmarnock

White papers are positional statements - starting points - I trust Salmond and Co more than Johann Lamont etc. as they seem to be brighter and more industrious.

The WhitePaper is not a starting point, its the whole way they plan to fund all these things that they have promised. Its the SNP Gov masterplan. If people have ignored it then god help us all."

I hope that people don't ignore it - I also hope that they see it for what it is - a plan.

I would expect any credible administration to negotiate to the best of their abilities, and to modify their plan as circumstances present themselves.

There might be areas where there are compromises and others where expectations are exceeded.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"Even if it's a no, the Scots get more power and better home rule.

Anyway, the dye has been cast and we now await the decision. I have been proud to have been involved in such a historical day.

Salmond was desperate too. Making huge promises about 'social justice', welfare ect. In a polished way though.

Thing is, with an ageing population, a declining birth rate, fewer people of working age, year on year and, therefore, fewer tax-payers and no pound - how will it all be paid for?

It goes on and on."

Yes, but Salmond is a slick operator and he knows people won't look that deep into it. He's also good at brushing off those that asked the searching questions as 'Tory mouthpieces'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Got it

Maybe we should start our own political party

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By *MD47Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

White papers are positional statements - starting points - I trust Salmond and Co more than Johann Lamont etc. as they seem to be brighter and more industrious.

The WhitePaper is not a starting point, its the whole way they plan to fund all these things that they have promised. Its the SNP Gov masterplan. If people have ignored it then god help us all.

I hope that people don't ignore it - I also hope that they see it for what it is - a plan.

I would expect any credible administration to negotiate to the best of their abilities, and to modify their plan as circumstances present themselves.

There might be areas where there are compromises and others where expectations are exceeded."

I would hope so also...I really do.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

£ Sterling up against US$ in anticipation of a No vote.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

White papers are positional statements - starting points - I trust Salmond and Co more than Johann Lamont etc. as they seem to be brighter and more industrious.

The WhitePaper is not a starting point, its the whole way they plan to fund all these things that they have promised. Its the SNP Gov masterplan. If people have ignored it then god help us all.

I hope that people don't ignore it - I also hope that they see it for what it is - a plan.

I would expect any credible administration to negotiate to the best of their abilities, and to modify their plan as circumstances present themselves.

There might be areas where there are compromises and others where expectations are exceeded."

So does that mean? Negotiate what? For starters, there will be no pound for the Scots, and that's just for starters. The divorce will be messy and expensive as they always are, but the Scots worse off.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

The no's are confident but it might go yes yet.

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By *yrshiremischiefMan
over a year ago

Kilmarnock

White papers are positional statements - starting points - I trust Salmond and Co more than Johann Lamont etc. as they seem to be brighter and more industrious.

The WhitePaper is not a starting point, its the whole way they plan to fund all these things that they have promised. Its the SNP Gov masterplan. If people have ignored it then god help us all.

I hope that people don't ignore it - I also hope that they see it for what it is - a plan.

I would expect any credible administration to negotiate to the best of their abilities, and to modify their plan as circumstances present themselves.

There might be areas where there are compromises and others where expectations are exceeded.

I would hope so also...I really do."

Regardless of where we might have placed our X mark (That's not a phrase that I use casually, as it is how my Grandfather registered my Mother's birth) I want to wake up in a Scotland that cares enough to work hard for what we want for ourselves and for our children - I don't care about political hue - I care about people - my guess is that you do too.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"The no's are confident but it might go yes yet."

It's going to be incredibly close.

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By *vbride1963TV/TS
over a year ago

E.K . Glasgow

Glasgow 53% yes no 47 5 still no ahead overall so far

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