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the verdict

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

now after the debate tonight has it changed peoples view to which way they will vote , as certain ways it has mine

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nope

I'm sticking with independence

Auds

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Still a yes for me!

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I wouldn't change my voting intentions but wanted to see if Wee Eck had spent the last few weeks preparing answers.

He almost managed to answer the currency question by saying we can use any currency we want to. That is true but we want to know which one!!

The problem with this referendum is the questions can only be answered after the result is known.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

There hasn't been anything new tonight, so no.

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By *z ThongzWoman
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

I missed it, need to watch it on catch up. Hoping for clarity.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I wouldn't change my voting intentions but wanted to see if Wee Eck had spent the last few weeks preparing answers.

He almost managed to answer the currency question by saying we can use any currency we want to. That is true but we want to know which one!!

The problem with this referendum is the questions can only be answered after the result is known."

On the currency one the pound will be it as even Mr darling said he wouldn't be against it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Still yes

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I wouldn't change my voting intentions but wanted to see if Wee Eck had spent the last few weeks preparing answers.

He almost managed to answer the currency question by saying we can use any currency we want to. That is true but we want to know which one!!

The problem with this referendum is the questions can only be answered after the result is known.

On the currency one the pound will be it as even Mr darling said he wouldn't be against it "

But which pound? Sterling or a wee eck pound?

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By *othingButCocoChanelWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Was a million percent yes before

Now one million amd ten percent!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, all too vague still.

And sorry but some seem to think its like an election and we try it for a while, see how it pans out ?

Theres no goin back.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As long as the boy darling can get to keep on flip flopping the designation of his many properties to fill his pockets with nice tax payers money he really couldn't give a shite what currency it turns out to be

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

More diversion and sound bitery.

Still no answers, just bland assertion.

Btw, don't swallow the Snp Line..

The english gave us 18 years of Maggies rule. The SNP laid the motion of no confidence and voted with the "tories" to bring down the incumbent labour government.

This then led to the 1979 election where that woman was elected.

" the people of Scotland "were given 18 years of Tory rule."

Bruce Crawford, the MSP for Stirling and until recently the party's business manager, took up the cry, saying: "After the 1979 referendum, Scotland suffered 18 years of Tory rule we didn't vote for …"

The truth is the Scots weren't "given" Tory rule by anyone other than the SNP and if they suffered 18 years of Tory rule, it was because the SNP DID vote with the Tories and actually brought on their long years in power.

What Mr Crawford and his press officer choose to forget, or hope that no one will recall, is that it was the 11-strong SNP group in the Commons in 1979 that first tabled the no confidence motion in 

Jim Callaghan's Labour government which led to its defeat in that memorable debate three weeks after the devolution referendum.

Margaret Thatcher couldn't be sure of beating Callaghan until she saw that the Nats were on her side and once they had shown their hand, she then tabled her own no confidence motion, which, as leader of the main opposition party, took precedence over that of the SNP. She won by only one vote, with all the Nat MPs voting with her – "turkeys voting for an early Christmas", said not-so Sunny Jim."

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By *othingButCocoChanelWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"No, all too vague still.

And sorry but some seem to think its like an election and we try it for a while, see how it pans out ?

Theres no goin back. "

Exactly once you say no theres no going back!! You have to deal with the shit that is flung at us! What people need to realise is of course its harder for the YES campaign as its trying to convince people of the unknown, the no campaign are all about trying to draw attention to a few things that cant be answered until we decide rather than giving us any real reason or benefit we will get from a no

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I wouldn't change my voting intentions but wanted to see if Wee Eck had spent the last few weeks preparing answers.

He almost managed to answer the currency question by saying we can use any currency we want to. That is true but we want to know which one!!

The problem with this referendum is the questions can only be answered after the result is known.

On the currency one the pound will be it as even Mr darling said he wouldn't be against it

But which pound? Sterling or a wee eck pound?"

Well since the pound is not owned by any off us I guess it will be the Sterling

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see why there was a confusion with the pound I the first place! The English looked at the Scottish pound like it was a euro!! You cant use it down there so why say we couldn't use it? They are a bunch of wanks! I've seen the way they talk about Scottish people and Scotland! I can't wait until the 18th of sep!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A YES from me....

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By *othingButCocoChanelWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

And the passion from the YES voters is so obvious compared to the fear of the no voters, most arent passionate most are afraid of change

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And the passion from the YES voters is so obvious compared to the fear of the no voters, most arent passionate most are afraid of change"

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By *dub67Man
over a year ago

glasgow

Labour were in disarray at that time. That's hardly snps fault .

Let's move from then we are now in 2014.

We should be proud of our country. Why shouldn't we be independent. What's stopping us

You know what's stopping no self belief or confidence of what we can do.

It's not salmond or darling we are voting for. We are voting for what we want. Yes has to be.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"And the passion from the YES voters is so obvious compared to the fear of the no voters, most arent passionate most are afraid of change"

These are the kind of incorrect generalisations that really aren't helpful at all.

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By *othingButCocoChanelWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"And the passion from the YES voters is so obvious compared to the fear of the no voters, most arent passionate most are afraid of change

These are the kind of incorrect generalisations that really aren't helpful at all. "

Not helpful why?

Its true from my opinion what i have saw/heard most yes voters are passionate for change and no are voting through fear of change

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Labour were in disarray at that time. That's hardly snps fault .

Let's move from then we are now in 2014.

We should be proud of our country. Why shouldn't we be independent. What's stopping us

You know what's stopping no self belief or confidence of what we can do.

It's not salmond or darling we are voting for. We are voting for what we want. Yes has to be. "
I prefer facts n figures, passion wont secure any big future decisions.

We are a country a fraction of the total size of uk, and shaaazam, suddenly dividing and cutting off from businesses and messing with established good relations with uk wide businesses, passion will solve all that aye?

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By *othingButCocoChanelWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Labour were in disarray at that time. That's hardly snps fault .

Let's move from then we are now in 2014.

We should be proud of our country. Why shouldn't we be independent. What's stopping us

You know what's stopping no self belief or confidence of what we can do.

It's not salmond or darling we are voting for. We are voting for what we want. Yes has to be. I prefer facts n figures, passion wont secure any big future decisions.

We are a country a fraction of the total size of uk, and shaaazam, suddenly dividing and cutting off from businesses and messing with established good relations with uk wide businesses, passion will solve all that aye?"

Big future decisions as in what??

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"And the passion from the YES voters is so obvious compared to the fear of the no voters, most arent passionate most are afraid of change

These are the kind of incorrect generalisations that really aren't helpful at all.

Not helpful why?

Its true from my opinion what i have saw/heard most yes voters are passionate for change and no are voting through fear of change "

Not helpful as it's untrue and divisive. Similar to the line that I've seen many people make that 'No' voters are brainwashed by the mainstream media etc.

Basically it's a failure to accept that people have come rationally to a different point of view and that therefore their view is the only valid/ correct one. The country has been divided enough throughout this process and that sort of thinking won't exactly smooth any sort of reconcilliation post referendum.

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By *othingButCocoChanelWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow


"And the passion from the YES voters is so obvious compared to the fear of the no voters, most arent passionate most are afraid of change

These are the kind of incorrect generalisations that really aren't helpful at all.

Not helpful why?

Its true from my opinion what i have saw/heard most yes voters are passionate for change and no are voting through fear of change

Not helpful as it's untrue and divisive. Similar to the line that I've seen many people make that 'No' voters are brainwashed by the mainstream media etc.

Basically it's a failure to accept that people have come rationally to a different point of view and that therefore their view is the only valid/ correct one. The country has been divided enough throughout this process and that sort of thinking won't exactly smooth any sort of reconcilliation post referendum."

Everything you just said is all YOUR opinion

Now leave me to mine! Mr/Mrs know it all maybe you should of headed the campaign since you know what is and isnt true for a fact!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Still aye for me!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The big motivator for scotland to vote yes is the current government and its policies, understandable.

Conservatives historically have always looked after middle to upper classes, so of course they never appeal to scotland.

Ok, yes, i think its too much of a change, as proud of Scotland as any other Scot, hell its pride that has me dreading this "gee it a go" attitude, your messing with it all, lots of the population of England disslike Tory policy just like us, bet they want a change of government just like us too, but old fashioned style politics, elect a party next election that does away with the tory policies that simply are'nt working.

You dont have to "try" independance to achieve that.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Everything you just said is all YOUR opinion

Now leave me to mine! Mr/Mrs know it all maybe you should of headed the campaign since you know what is and isnt true for a fact!!"

Well if your opinion is that everyone who votes 'no' is afraid then that's your opinion but I think I'd be stopping to question my thought process if it failed to recognise other possible explanations.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

still yes from both if us ,just wonder how many labour voters are happy with their party now that they are as right wing as the torys and have lost their socialst values .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To the people who are voting No I have a question. Do you want your children and your grandchildren to be treated like second class citizens like you have been?. Scotland has been the beta testers for every evil thing worseminister could think up. They love the Scots that much they will not take trident out of Scotland because it's TOO DANGEROUS there words.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

I certainly don't feel like a 2nd class citizen. I've had a good life so far.

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By *ary_ArgyllMan
over a year ago

Argyll

Nothing new in the debate as expected. Personally I think we have nearly everything we need with devo max and there are advantages in being in the union - I'll still be a no voter although I thoroughly agree the better together campaign has been too negative, lack lustre and not focussed on the positives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"still yes from both if us ,just wonder how many labour voters are happy with their party now that they are as right wing as the torys and have lost their socialst values ."
I know of people, the whole family jobless, living off benefits whilst labour were in power, yet last election, they thought, "im gonna vote conservative this time", thats here in Scotland.

Wonder if they regretted it, or how soon they were made to regret it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Was a million percent yes before

Now one million amd ten percent!!!!

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To the people who are voting No I have a question. Do you want your children and your grandchildren to be treated like second class citizens like you have been?. Scotland has been the beta testers for every evil thing worseminister could think up. They love the Scots that much they will not take trident out of Scotland because it's TOO DANGEROUS there words. "

How far away miles wise does a Nuclear missile have to be, to be a safe distance from us. Cumbria? Lovely, be safe as houses then

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

Alasdair darling dodged every fecking straight question put to him tonight and as much as im not a salmond fan i thought he handled tonight very well i now know for certain which way i'll be voting

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By *ary_ArgyllMan
over a year ago

Argyll

No idea who said it was too dangerous to take Trident out - I think the words were it will be too expensive to relocate it.

Anyway I would like to see Trident out of the whole UK, not just Scotland.

Do you really think if there is a nuclear attack/accident that having it somewhere else in the remainder of the UK is going to make any difference - don't think the fallout is going to respect the England/Scottish border.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No idea who said it was too dangerous to take Trident out - I think the words were it will be too expensive to relocate it.

Anyway I would like to see Trident out of the whole UK, not just Scotland.

Do you really think if there is a nuclear attack/accident that having it somewhere else in the remainder of the UK is going to make any difference - don't think the fallout is going to respect the England/Scottish border."
Was my point, yet its a vote winner for independance?

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By *hybutnaughtyoneWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

going back to the 1979 referendum....it was a rigged "no" The government in power at the time reneged on the powers that Scotland were to get, so why should we believe it would be any different this time round if it a no vote ?

If Scotland receives £1200 per head more that the rest of the UK , why do the better together want us to stay? Surely we must be a drain on the rest of the UK?

For the record I am not an Alex Salmond fan but I do want Scotland to prosper and in my opinion the only way Scotland can do that is making it's own decisions about Scotland's future.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Labour were in disarray at that time. That's hardly snps fault .

Let's move from then we are now in 2014.

We should be proud of our country. Why shouldn't we be independent. What's stopping us

You know what's stopping no self belief or confidence of what we can do.

It's not salmond or darling we are voting for. We are voting for what we want. Yes has to be. "

unfortunately self belief doesn't pay the bills.

I could be wrong here but I believe that if we were to use the pound sterling them we have to import Bank of England notes a bit like us going to the travel agent to buy Euros, dollars, etc.

Wee Eck was clear in that we can use any currency we want to and he wants a mandate to negotiate which is not the same giving an actual answer.

Kevin Bridges said a good thing on the Johnathon Ross show. When asked about the vote he said we could have independance with a get back in clause as after 4 years and we had made an arse of it then we could say sorry and be back in again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Without a shadow of a doubt voting no!

Ultimately it was upto Salmond and the SNP to sway my opinion the other way, and that they have not done!

Working in the public sector, I personally don't believe that enough of the Scottish people have the right work ethic that's needed to make the single nation work.

I believe that the shortfall of taxes and revenue needed will be taken from those in public sector jobs as it's guaranteed income for the government... I do appreciate this is happening just now with Westminster, but less numbers means more per head.

Seeing previous posts saying that this is a onetime thing is nonsense. A referendum could be raised again and personally I'd rather be asked again maybe a few years down the line where we would have a better idea of the outcome. Last thing I'd want is for us to go independent then have to go back with the tail between the legs when it didn't work.

Personally I don't think Scotland is ready and I'll give Salmond his due, as he's being clever and targeting a very select audience. I'm not a fan of the Tories and to be fair most politicians in Britain but sometimes it's better the devil you know.

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

Trident is a complete waste of money we have no need for it at all if anyone launchs a nuclear attack it will start world war 3 and we'll all be fucked regardless so scrap it all and stop wasting billions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To the people who are voting No I have a question. Do you want your children and your grandchildren to be treated like second class citizens like you have been?. Scotland has been the beta testers for every evil thing worseminister could think up. They love the Scots that much they will not take trident out of Scotland because it's TOO DANGEROUS there words.

How far away miles wise does a Nuclear missile have to be, to be a safe distance from us. Cumbria? Lovely, be safe as houses then "
They where asked why wouldn't they dock the subs I the Thames and they said it's too dangerous too many people could be killed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Trident is a complete waste of money we have no need for it at all if anyone launchs a nuclear attack it will start world war 3 and we'll all be fucked regardless so scrap it all and stop wasting billions "
As Tommy Sheridan said we are paying billions for scrap metal

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Question 1.

Hands up who's heard of Aldermaston or Burghfield?

- this is where they disassemble, maintain and reassemble the current nuclear warhead stock.

PS They're both not in Scotland.

Question 2.

How far did the fall out from Chernobyl ?

Question 3.

BNP Paribas estimate up to 40,000 financial sector jobs could be lost on the Panama Pound option.

How would you replace these positions?

Question 4.

Capital flight - how would an iScotland prevent capital flight on the Panama option (Citi Bank)

Question 5.

What interest rate would an iScotland pay on government bonds after walking away from its share of accumulated UK debt.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Labour were in disarray at that time. That's hardly snps fault .

Let's move from then we are now in 2014.

We should be proud of our country. Why shouldn't we be independent. What's stopping us

You know what's stopping no self belief or confidence of what we can do.

It's not salmond or darling we are voting for. We are voting for what we want. Yes has to be. "

It was entirely the SNPs fault.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No matter which way ye vote - vote......but rememebr most nig things in history were not acheived by going "ooo we don't know all the answers so we'll just wait n see....." Flat earth approach to life....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well we never voted for the twats we've got just now, or Maggie, or major but we got them anyway and you know what they did and they're doing it again. Scotland has around 65 MPs and London has around 130. We could all vote labour in 2015 and still get a Tory government, our vote doesn't count and never has.

even the years that labour won the general election if the Scottish vote was removed they'd still have won. They didn't need us either. In a little over three weeks you, me and everybody else in Scotland gets to have a vote that counts for the first time. We should want it to count every time.

At least we'd get to have the government we vote for, good or bad it'd at least be our choice.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Like the 56% of Scottish voters that didn't vote SNP in the last scottish elections.

The majority didn't vote SNP, but we got em anyway.

Any one notice the little old pals act from AS.

"We'll get orders for Ferguson shipbuilding on the clyde"

Guess what Monaco based SNP supporter is the preferred bidder. ..

Jim McColl, Clyde Blowers, preferred bidder for Ferguson Shipbuilding.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not actually an snp voter but they can hardly be blamed for the election turnout. The fact is that a majority of the actual turnout voted snp and that is why we have an snp government.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

1,989,222 voted.

902,915 voted SNP.

Therefore over a million people didn't get the government they voted for.

You can't use democratic deficit as a reason, when you are elected in the same way.

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By *lcockMan
over a year ago

stirling

With regards to the currency issue, it appeared to me the Mr Salmond was saying if we don't get a currency union then we will back out on our debt.

Don't think that looks good to prospective lenders and is it ok just to walk away from debt.

Should we keep the pound and do get the currency union who will set the interest rate? The Bank of England? Does that not contradict independence.?

In addition whether we agree with trident. The loss of that amount off jobs would be devastating to the west cost. Also the shipyards on clydeside would take a massive hit.

Britain cannot have a foreign country building or supplying military equipment. Not only direct jobs like this but allot of smaller companies that supply and support these companies would be affected.

A few people at my work have mentioned and made comparisons with Norway. Mr Salmond also mentioned Norway tonight. While their may be money in Norway the cost of living is astronomical ( pint is around €7).

Should we follow that route that would have an impact on for example tourism as it would be to expensive to visit.

Just a couple of my concerns that I would like to have an answer for.

Salmond did better tonight think he has adopted attack as the best form of defence.

Either way good to see people involved in politics and debating what's best for Scotland.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Like the 56% of Scottish voters that didn't vote SNP in the last scottish elections.

The majority didn't vote SNP, but we got em anyway.

Any one notice the little old pals act from AS.

"We'll get orders for Ferguson shipbuilding on the clyde"

Guess what Monaco based SNP supporter is the preferred bidder. ..

Jim McColl, Clyde Blowers, preferred bidder for Ferguson Shipbuilding. "

Monaco the tax haven?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Nothing new in the debate as expected. Personally I think we have nearly everything we need with devo max and there are advantages in being in the union - I'll still be a no voter although I thoroughly agree the better together campaign has been too negative, lack lustre and not focussed on the positives."

The Westminster government took devo max off the table. It doesn't matter what new powers labour promise because the Tories will definitely win next years election. As we know Scotland's votes are irrelevant to the outcome.

In the run up to the 1979 referendum the Tories urged us to vote no because they would give us more powers and look what happened to that promise! This time next year Westminster will be ruled by a conservative/UKIP alliance and god help our children then!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"going back to the 1979 referendum....it was a rigged "no" The government in power at the time reneged on the powers that Scotland were to get, so why should we believe it would be any different this time round if it a no vote ?

If Scotland receives £1200 per head more that the rest of the UK , why do the better together want us to stay? Surely we must be a drain on the rest of the UK?

For the record I am not an Alex Salmond fan but I do want Scotland to prosper and in my opinion the only way Scotland can do that is making it's own decisions about Scotland's future.

"

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Nothing new in the debate as expected. Personally I think we have nearly everything we need with devo max and there are advantages in being in the union - I'll still be a no voter although I thoroughly agree the better together campaign has been too negative, lack lustre and not focussed on the positives.

The Westminster government took devo max off the table. It doesn't matter what new powers labour promise because the Tories will definitely win next years election. As we know Scotland's votes are irrelevant to the outcome.

In the run up to the 1979 referendum the Tories urged us to vote no because they would give us more powers and look what happened to that promise! This time next year Westminster will be ruled by a conservative/UKIP alliance and god help our children then!"

Wow, and the call the no campaign, project fear!

Watch out, watch out, the Kippers are coming to get yah!

Nasty Nigel and his English raiders will punish Scotland.

Be afraid, very afraid!

Pish

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By *z ThongzWoman
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

Better together, are we ? If we are better together why ate we in the state we are in. Why are we not better now ? If the Scottish Parliament are getting more powers why can't they tell us what they are? It already up to the Scottish Parliament how much they spend on the NHS but its the Westminster government that says how much we get so in essence cutting how much can be spent and where.

Not once has the No campaign told us why the union are fighting to keep us. David Cameron hasn't given the Scottish people the courtesy of debating why we should stay. History shows us what it was like years ago, we see how it is and feel it in our pockets how it is today. Will it change in the future under the union , better together? I think I am decided.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Nothing new in the debate as expected. Personally I think we have nearly everything we need with devo max and there are advantages in being in the union - I'll still be a no voter although I thoroughly agree the better together campaign has been too negative, lack lustre and not focussed on the positives.

The Westminster government took devo max off the table. It doesn't matter what new powers labour promise because the Tories will definitely win next years election. As we know Scotland's votes are irrelevant to the outcome.

In the run up to the 1979 referendum the Tories urged us to vote no because they would give us more powers and look what happened to that promise! This time next year Westminster will be ruled by a conservative/UKIP alliance and god help our children then!

Wow, and the call the no campaign, project fear!

Watch out, watch out, the Kippers are coming to get yah!

Nasty Nigel and his English raiders will punish Scotland.

Be afraid, very afraid!

Pish

"

So which part is pish? That Cameron took devo max off the table? No that is fact!

That in the run up to the 1979 referendum the Tories promised us more powers and the reneged? No that is fact?

That the Tories are joking with UKIP? No, Cameron has already stated that is what they are doing!

That the Tories will win next years election? They are already well ahead in the polls and Milliband couldn't beat an egg.

So your deep, insightful political vision really just consists of ignoring facts by saying "pish"! About as convincing as Darling was tonight!

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By *ustforalaugh1Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Labour were in disarray at that time. That's hardly snps fault .

Let's move from then we are now in 2014.

We should be proud of our country. Why shouldn't we be independent. What's stopping us

You know what's stopping no self belief or confidence of what we can do.

It's not salmond or darling we are voting for. We are voting for what we want. Yes has to be. "

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By *candiumWoman
over a year ago

oban

i am.proud of my country. My country is called the UK. I'm voting no.

i don't have many strong political beliefs but I have been a no voter since i was 5. Lol.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

And the sudden negativity of a so called positive Yes campaign?

Vote Yes or..

The tories will get yah

UKIP will get yah.

The big bad englishman will get yah.

Be honest now, where will you find the money to cover the commitments in the White Paper, how much to set up a truly independent scottish state?

Who will be the Scottish government lender of last resort?

If the government can find £16.25 million to buy and run a uneconomic ayrshire airfield, why can't it find the same amount of cash to do away with food banks?

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By *ootlover456Man
over a year ago

Paisley

still yes. and Darling got destroyed in that debate.

I hear a lot of no voter arguing that there's no information. that's nonsense. there's tons of facts and figures that if your interested all you have to do is look them up for yourself

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By *z ThongzWoman
over a year ago

Lanarkshire


"still yes. and Darling got destroyed in that debate.

I hear a lot of no voter arguing that there's no information. that's nonsense. there's tons of facts and figures that if your interested all you have to do is look them up for yourself"

agreed, but spoon feeding is easier.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Ok.

Setting up a scottish state.

AS - ~£200 Million

JS - Scottish Tax System ~£675 million (leaked government document)

Who's right?

Renationalisation of the post office?

Or the free child care pledge that would involve 27,000 mums getting jobs at £30k p/a to cover costs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the boy darling wins the day in the vote for freedom i wonder if he will sell up his many properties, obtained by some very sharp practices in the westminster cash free for all, and move back here to Scotland to rule us all? It's a thought that just doesn't fill folk with joy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its a vote for freedom ? Already have that thanks.

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By *ee-YinWoman
over a year ago

nr bathgate

I'll be on holiday on the 18th but have already given my YES vote by proxy xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lets all be honest about this

Vote no, status quo

Vote yes and there are many many questions that cant and wont be answered so as a yes voter you are saying you are happy to trust Alex Salmond to negotiate and sort out your country and future

Seriously, Alex Salmond

I weep for my country

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just wonder how many scots enjoying living in england, appreciating the freedom to live there because part of the enjoying living there is not being exposed to daft borderline racist divisional crap that for some reason springs life into folk here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Currency...aparently "it'll be fine" Alex assures us.

Bit like when you walk onto a jetliner and yer greeted by alex and nicola. Alex in his captains uniform, nicola the first officer, reassuring smiles, telling everyone, " hullo we've never done this before but....it'll be....Fine".

You'd do a 180 and get aff, would'nt you..lol.

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By *ndrew MannMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

If anybody really thinks Scotland would get more powers after a no vote then sadly they've have the wool pulled over their eyes. Looking at what Boris said last week "Scotland has enough powers" and Darlings utter failing last night to come up with even 1 power transferred to Scotland after a no vote tells a story. None of the parties involved in the NO campaign can agree on anything that's clear.

I don't know how many times Salmond has to say it but after a YES vote Scotland would use the POUND whether that be in a currency union (which is the preferred option) or just using the pound which even Darling had to admit too, it pretty much shows up Osboure as a liar, he came to Scotland a number of months ago and said that if Scotland voted YES then we'd have to walk away from using the pound, utter rubbish and scare mongering - anybody can use the POUND thats a fact !!

Do people really think after a NO vote Westminster won't punish Scotland for having the audacity to stand up against them, you can be sure budgets will be cut leading to the NHS being underfunded, police numbers being cut etc Darling was out of his depth last night on things like child poverty, benefits for the disabled etc. remember many politicians in the NO campaign don't want to loose the cushy Westminster jobs that's another fact of it. On Europe in 2017 then we'd likely be out too with the impending referendum on it (if Cameron is still in power, let's face it Labour under Ed Milliband are about as effective as a Viagra made out if chalk)

Voting YES is a leap of faith granted, people don't like change, they don't like the unknown but that doesn't mean you just have to stick to what you know, embrace the change, make Scotland a better place where we control our future, England will still be our neighbours it's not like we are floating off into the sunset.

The time for Scotland is now, we can do this if as a country we are brave enough

Oh aye I'm voting YES by the way

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And after a yes vote they will fold their arms and just say " on you go then, we wont bring out any measures to counter your decision" ??

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

Ok so government say we lose jobs moving trident ....scotland say we gain jobs with NEW military headquarters replacing trident...

government say we lose ship building on the clyde ....ermm who exactly is gonna build the ships scotland need for the new scottish navy

goverment say we cant use pound ...ermm they have NO power to stop us ...also does ANYONE actually think westminster will cut off their nose to spite their face ....they NEED A DEAL with scotland to help with the national debt and they also NEED some sort of deal on oil n gas

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

I keep reading about the positive attitude of the yes voter and the abject fear of the no voter on both sides there are voters who dont have a clue but WILL vote on what they hear im voting no I could sit and bore the life out of you for no reason so if having such a vehmenant state about things is right why are`nt these folk agreeing with isis Ithink we all agree they are definatly positive they are right Iin places throughout this thread there are words akin to death to the infidels long live free scotland dont listen to alex salmond or mr darling find out for yourself get it wrong you could be hurting yourself and your children for millinium to come

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

As for david Cameron he is nothing short of a coward ...he sent darling (labour) in as the uk rep to keep scotland ...he refused to head it himself knowing ..if he (a tory) were to come up here to argue westminsters case it would make it worse for them ....his reason ...its not his place to do it its the head on the no campaigns job....well excuse me but my thought would be it should have been the job of the prime minister of the uk to lead the no campaign with such an important decision affecting the whole uk not just scotland

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh


"I keep reading about the positive attitude of the yes voter and the abject fear of the no voter on both sides there are voters who dont have a clue but WILL vote on what they hear im voting no I could sit and bore the life out of you for no reason so if having such a vehmenant state about things is right why are`nt these folk agreeing with isis Ithink we all agree they are definatly positive they are right Iin places throughout this thread there are words akin to death to the infidels long live free scotland dont listen to alex salmond or mr darling find out for yourself get it wrong you could be hurting yourself and your children for millinium to come "

Gotta agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As A. Darling rightfully said "this isn't about personalities" or lack of them in my opinion.

I found the whole thing confused me more than had already been done. I'm not fussed on the currency thing as you can link a groat,sheckle,Euro, Scottish dollar to the pound. In Belize one U.S Dollar is always two Belizean Dollars for example.

I still have too many unanswered questions so will go with my original instinct. Status Quo

Take it away Rick......

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Working in the public sector, I personally don't believe that enough of the Scottish people have the right work ethic that's needed to make the single nation work.

I believe that the shortfall of taxes and revenue needed will be taken from those in public sector jobs as it's guaranteed income for the government... I do appreciate this is happening just now with Westminster, but less numbers means more per head.

"

Pretty much agree with this for the same reasons you have posted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As for david Cameron he is nothing short of a coward ...he sent darling (labour) in as the uk rep to keep scotland ...he refused to head it himself knowing ..if he (a tory) were to come up here to argue westminsters case it would make it worse for them ....his reason ...its not his place to do it its the head on the no campaigns job....well excuse me but my thought would be it should have been the job of the prime minister of the uk to lead the no campaign with such an important decision affecting the whole uk not just scotland "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And the sudden negativity of a so called positive Yes campaign?

Vote Yes or..

The tories will get yah

UKIP will get yah.

The big bad englishman will get yah.

Be honest now, where will you find the money to cover the commitments in the White Paper, how much to set up a truly independent scottish state?

Who will be the Scottish government lender of last resort?

If the government can find £16.25 million to buy and run a uneconomic ayrshire airfield, why can't it find the same amount of cash to do away with food banks?

"

I thought you would know the cost of setting up an independant Scotland as your own Tory government commissioned Dr. DunLeavey, head professor of economics at LSE to publish a report, which he has done and you can read it. Dr. Dunleavy looked at every aspect and reported back to Westminster that it would cost the taxpayer £200 million, about twice the cost to the taxpayer as the Andy Coulson court case, or a quarter of the cost of the new rail link which doesn't link anywhere near Scotland but we are still contributing to.

Once again this was the report commissioned by your Tory government and it is their figures. You really should understand the facts before entering a debate!

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

A quick google search shows that Dunleavey has actually given a figure of between £600 million and £1.5 billion.

The £200 million is just the immediate costs and doesn't include many of the computer systems etc that are required.

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By *lue4youCouple
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

Just amazed at the philanthropic nature of the Torries, trying to protect us wee Scots from our own blind ambition. Who would have thought Cammeron's heart strings would have been plucked in concern for our National ship about to plunge of the end of flat earth.

( That's sarcasm BTW) Yeah they want to hold on to us for what we provide, and protect their own self interests. They all had many years to come up with the goods, and are continuing to fail miserably. No other option it's time for a yes vote

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east


"Just amazed at the philanthropic nature of the Torries, trying to protect us wee Scots from our own blind ambition. Who would have thought Cammeron's heart strings would have been plucked in concern for our National ship about to plunge of the end of flat earth.

( That's sarcasm BTW) Yeah they want to hold on to us for what we provide, and protect their own self interests. They all had many years to come up with the goods, and are continuing to fail miserably. No other option it's time for a yes vote "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just amazed at the philanthropic nature of the Torries, trying to protect us wee Scots from our own blind ambition. Who would have thought Cammeron's heart strings would have been plucked in concern for our National ship about to plunge of the end of flat earth.

( That's sarcasm BTW) Yeah they want to hold on to us for what we provide, and protect their own self interests. They all had many years to come up with the goods, and are continuing to fail miserably. No other option it's time for a yes vote "

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Open up your wallet and take out a Scottish tenner.

How much is it worth in an independant Scotland? Who values it?

We might be able to use it in Scotland but will any other country take it?

Apparently EU rule forbid banks having a head office in a non EU country so RBS and BoS would need to relocate out of Scotland with the loss of how many jobs?

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but to use Sterling that would mean it needs to be guaranteed by the Bank of England so notes would need to be imported a bit like getting your Euros or Dollars for your holiday.

Wee Eck didn't give us plan b last night because what he said was he was looking for a mandate to negotiate. In other words he doesn't know what the outcome will be as negotiations will only happen after the vote.

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By *lue4youCouple
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

Does anyone seriously think that they won't go for a monetary union, in favour of incurring more dept on their own in the UK, just to spit the dummy out the pram? since in such circumstances, We would not be liable to pay anything towards it.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Welsh First Minister said on Monday that he would veto and currency union.

I'm afraid that it is dead in the water but Wee Eck and his sidekick Sturgeon are still doing CPR on it until after the election in the hope that no one will notice.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow


"And the sudden negativity of a so called positive Yes campaign?

Vote Yes or..

The tories will get yah

UKIP will get yah.

The big bad englishman will get yah.

Be honest now, where will you find the money to cover the commitments in the White Paper, how much to set up a truly independent scottish state?

Who will be the Scottish government lender of last resort?

If the government can find £16.25 million to buy and run a uneconomic ayrshire airfield, why can't it find the same amount of cash to do away with food banks?

I thought you would know the cost of setting up an independant Scotland as your own Tory government commissioned Dr. DunLeavey, head professor of economics at LSE to publish a report, which he has done and you can read it. Dr. Dunleavy looked at every aspect and reported back to Westminster that it would cost the taxpayer £200 million, about twice the cost to the taxpayer as the Andy Coulson court case, or a quarter of the cost of the new rail link which doesn't link anywhere near Scotland but we are still contributing to.

Once again this was the report commissioned by your Tory government and it is their figures. You really should understand the facts before entering a debate!"

Unlike the SNP, I've never voted with or for the Conservative party in my life.

1979, 11 SNP MP'S, laid a motion of no confidence in the then Labour government.

The incumbent labour government lost this vote 311 to 310.

The 11 Snp MP's voted with the Thatcher ran tory party to bring down the government.

Result of this move by the Snp - 18 long dark years.

FACT!

Typical Nat, everyone with the opposite view must be a tory, you'll be calling us not "true scots", quislings and traitors next.

You really expect to build a new state for £200 million. Just the new scottish embassies will cost ~£90 million.

Dunleavy quoted "immediate" costs. Your own finance minister had a report buried that it would cost £675 million to set up a new scottish tax office.

How much for a state security service? Or do you plan to sponge of the rUK for that too?

Pensions agency?

Met office?

Aviation safety and control?

Border control and security

Capital flight?

Facts and a Nat, answer this.

Who will be the Scottish financial services industries lender of last resort?

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By *lue4youCouple
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

Well only time will tell, though like all politicians, furiously denying that we could use the pound, when in fact we can. I suspect that when push comes to shove the Welsh first Minister will end up toeing the party line, for fear of incurring further dept.

Like any new thing there can be rough waters to be charted, but that doesn't mean we should shy away and take the easy line and follow the status quo For too long We Scots have been burdened by a long suffered inferiority complex, Indeed that twat Lamont actually came out and said it's not in the Scottish psyche to govern ourselves... If that's not an in built sense of inferiority what is.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Well only time will tell, though like all politicians, furiously denying that we could use the pound, when in fact we can. I suspect that when push comes to shove the Welsh first Minister will end up toeing the party line, for fear of incurring further dept.

................. "

The 'party line' as you put it is that a Separate Scotland won't be able to use Sterling.

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By *lue4youCouple
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

Legally they can't actually stop us using the pound.. Thought that was made abundantly clear last night even admitted to by Mr Darling .. albeit grudgingly. Whether there would be a monetary union as such is the point of debate, just because at this point in time the Westmister bed mates scream and protest there will be no deal doesn't necessarily mean it can't be so. It would be madness not to negotiate on that even Darling admitted that earlier last year.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Us Scots are forever being told by Cybernats that Westminster is completely untrustworthy etc yet their response to the hard questions is that Westminster is 'too sensible to do that'

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

As sterling is a fully tradeable currency, no one can stop any one from using it.

However, what hasn't been spelt out fully is the consequences of having a financial sector with no lender of last resort.

With no central bank, what will the protected sum in our saving account be? Currently £85k per bank. Not per bank account, it's per bank.

Banking oversight? Money laundering, capital flight?

Not to mention the loss of jobs, local community knock on, etc.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"As sterling is a fully tradeable currency, no one can stop any one from using it.

However, what hasn't been spelt out fully is the consequences of having a financial sector with no lender of last resort.

..... "

What sets UK paper money apart from the much quote US $ is that UK dosh comes in Scottish Clearing Bank varieties as well as the Old Lady's product.

If the Bank of England makes it clear it won't stand behind Scottish notes, is there any reason why other nations should accept them?

Remember past hassles getting London cabbies to take Scots tenners?

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk


"As sterling is a fully tradeable currency, no one can stop any one from using it.

However, what hasn't been spelt out fully is the consequences of having a financial sector with no lender of last resort.

.....

What sets UK paper money apart from the much quote US $ is that UK dosh comes in Scottish Clearing Bank varieties as well as the Old Lady's product.

If the Bank of England makes it clear it won't stand behind Scottish notes, is there any reason why other nations should accept them?

Remember past hassles getting London cabbies to take Scots tenners?"

I still have problems doing it and have to point out that it says STERLING on it.

But it won't say sterling if it's not guaranteed by the Bank of England.

You can still call it a pound but it won't be sterling. There in lies the problem. You can call it Furrys and it wouldn't make a bit of difference but it won't be backed up by a central bank - therefore it will be incredibly difficult to establish it as a new standalone currency.

The Euro was a brand new currency which is backed by the European Central Bank and look at the problems with that

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By *ife in furCouple
over a year ago

glasgow

Yes and yes again,

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

(Just for the record, I made up my mind a long time ago and my decision wasn't based on either of the bland twins egos or personalities)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i think the majority on here know who they are voting for and it will be the undecideds who can swing it for a yes vote ,in our area we have had 5 yes campainers at the door over the last 3 months and none from the no camp ,so to me yes are doing more to win over the undecided voters .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Scottish parliament seem to be unmoved about the pound which we can't understand and just last week they stated that Scotland can survive from the oil revenues but in the same breath they said that the oil will last another 40/50 years, so what the hell do they do after that.

Speaking to a friend today who lives in Norway £6 a pint, visit a doctor £18 and thats with an NHS system, day care in hospital £35, petrol £1.45/litre, pint of milk £1.10 ....and they were reliant on oil revenues.

Our vote is a definite NO thinking of the future for our family.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"i think the majority on here know who they are voting for and it will be the undecideds who can swing it for a yes vote ,in our area we have had 5 yes campainers at the door over the last 3 months and none from the no camp ,so to me yes are doing more to win over the undecided voters ."

Canvassing is very scientific nowadays. Nobody wastes effort door-knocking where they know they're going to win or know they're going to lose.

I'm guessing Paisley is pretty safe No Thanks territory.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"i think the majority on here know who they are voting for and it will be the undecideds who can swing it for a yes vote ,in our area we have had 5 yes campainers at the door over the last 3 months and none from the no camp ,so to me yes are doing more to win over the undecided voters .

Canvassing is very scientific nowadays. Nobody wastes effort door-knocking where they know they're going to win or know they're going to lose.

I'm guessing Paisley is pretty safe No Thanks territory."

well i think your comments (wasting effort knocking doors and guessing that they already have a no vote )could come back to bite them in the arse .

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"Scottish parliament seem to be unmoved about the pound which we can't understand and just last week they stated that Scotland can survive from the oil revenues but in the same breath they said that the oil will last another 40/50 years, so what the hell do they do after that.

Speaking to a friend today who lives in Norway £6 a pint, visit a doctor £18 and thats with an NHS system, day care in hospital £35, petrol £1.45/litre, pint of milk £1.10 ....and they were reliant on oil revenues.

Our vote is a definite NO thinking of the future for our family."

Was reading an article about Norway earlier. A visit to the local supermarket and it was $50 for the cheapest pasta, bread, cheese and chopped tomatoes.

Norway is certainly a rich country with a high standard of living and high wages but even they realise they face big challenges in the future when the oil runs out and there are concerns about it already. Their oil fund gives them options that Scotland doesn't have in that respect but there are still problems ahead for them.

Also, re their oil fund (before anyone comments on it), the saving of the money involved is based on a certain political outlook and model of society that just doesn't exist here and never will.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"As sterling is a fully tradeable currency, no one can stop any one from using it.

However, what hasn't been spelt out fully is the consequences of having a financial sector with no lender of last resort.

.....

What sets UK paper money apart from the much quote US $ is that UK dosh comes in Scottish Clearing Bank varieties as well as the Old Lady's product.

If the Bank of England makes it clear it won't stand behind Scottish notes, is there any reason why other nations should accept them?

Remember past hassles getting London cabbies to take Scots tenners?"

That's exactly the point I have been trying to make!!

The Scottish tenner in my wallet is transferable where after independance?

We can use the pound or roubles or dirams or any currency we like. The problem is that we won't have a lender of last resort, the Bank of England is preparing plans to prop up Scottish banks following independance as there is expected to be a capital outflow from Scotland and a run on Scottish banks.

Using the pound does not give you security like the £85K safety blanket on your saving provided by the BoE.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really dont care.

either way, we live in an imperfect system..that can never be perfect.

nobody will see a great change in the way of life.

I'm proud to be scottish, but I accept politicians will say anything to get a vote..even make promises of things getting better..then changing their mind and we will all complain once things arent as clear as been promised.

I'll vote

"whatever"

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By *landAnnCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"No, all too vague still.

And sorry but some seem to think its like an election and we try it for a while, see how it pans out ?

Theres no goin back.

Exactly once you say no theres no going back!! You have to deal with the shit that is flung at us! What people need to realise is of course its harder for the YES campaign as its trying to convince people of the unknown, the no campaign are all about trying to draw attention to a few things that cant be answered until we decide rather than giving us any real reason or benefit we will get from a no "

----------------------------------------------

***The No campaign is all about negative, fear tactics, and looking backwards... to the 'good old days' of Thatcher..Blair..and Brown..etc, woweee..

At least the YES campaign is looking forwards,,

Yes, Yes, Yes....

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By *landAnnCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"Scottish parliament seem to be unmoved about the pound which we can't understand and just last week they stated that Scotland can survive from the oil revenues but in the same breath they said that the oil will last another 40/50 years, so what the hell do they do after that.

Speaking to a friend today who lives in Norway £6 a pint, visit a doctor £18 and thats with an NHS system, day care in hospital £35, petrol £1.45/litre, pint of milk £1.10 ....and they were reliant on oil revenues.

Our vote is a definite NO thinking of the future for our family."

*******************************

Ok.. if oil is going to run out in 40-50 years... its going to run out anyway... regardless of who governs us... BUT.. how come its such a big deal for it to run out in an Independant Scotland..?

It's going to run out eventually.

Thats a fact.

So why is it ok for Westminster to take the revenue until it runs out... but not ok for Scotland to take the revenue until it runs out..?

Make no mistake.. UK is living off north sea oil revenues right now.

What the hell is UK going to do after it runs out?

Next question... What comes north into Scotland?

Scotland sends oil, hydro-electricity, gas and water south over the border...

What comes north..?

Big YES here....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Plenty things come north...food...materials for construction, etc. Just means it will all get here slower with paperwork ( customs invoices) and waits for customs clearances etc. Same for our exports south.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Plenty things come north...food...materials for construction, etc. Just means it will all get here slower with paperwork ( customs invoices) and waits for customs clearances etc. Same for our exports south."
And have we got all the people to do all this ? Ever flown into edinburgh airport from europe? I have....the flight was quicker than the passport check...lol.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

can i ask a couple of questions from this side of the border...

why should "iScotland" be the only one who get to dictate what happens with reagrds to a potential currency union..... should rUK get a voice as well as we are also effected by this decision (in the next general election the one party who says "in the result of a scottish yes vote... we will give you the option in a referendum to decide!" would get my vote!)

if scotland carried out their threat to not take the debt you do realise rUK would just veto iScotland joining the EU.... and that would also include "associate status"..... plus the imf, world bank and credit companies would give scotland immediate "default" status

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To all those that keep saying 'we get to choose our destiny'. No, 'We' don't! Do you think you're going to be consulted on every major decision, do you think the Scottish Government (whoever they are) will hold a referendum on every decision that effects the while country? Of course not!

This is the one and only time that 'we' will have any say what so ever in what happen. From this point forward, it'll down to the politicians so if you trust the MSP's more than you do the Westminster govt, then by all means vote Yes if you feel they'll represent your interests much better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"can i ask a couple of questions from this side of the border...

why should "iScotland" be the only one who get to dictate what happens with reagrds to a potential currency union..... should rUK get a voice as well as we are also effected by this decision (in the next general election the one party who says "in the result of a scottish yes vote... we will give you the option in a referendum to decide!" would get my vote!)

if scotland carried out their threat to not take the debt you do realise rUK would just veto iScotland joining the EU.... and that would also include "associate status"..... plus the imf, world bank and credit companies would give scotland immediate "default" status

"

A couple of very good points there sir! I've wondered that myself...

The reason Scotland won't default on it's share of the national debt, whatever happens, is that the rest of Europe / the World will look at iScotland and refuse to lend a single penny to a country that defaults on its debts to a major international economic power so that'll be us outcasts in that respect from the get-go.

Secondly, is that the kind of country we want to be seen as? If we don't get our way, we'll spit our dummy out?

Alex Salmond either hasn't any comprehension of the delicate balancing act needed in international politics, or is so arrogant that he thinks he doesn't need to pay heed to them. Either way, that makes him a fool to think that Scotland can be seen to behave in that way.

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By *AAjizzCouple
over a year ago

ammanford


"Still a yes for me! "

Fuck your pictures are hot as hell ....x

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Everyone and their dog bangs on about oil. What about the money and taxes generated by the City of London? Even the Scottish banks used to make a lot of money before they crashed big time. Can you imagine Wee Eck trying to sort out the mess we had in 2008. iScotland would not have the resources to bail out the banks.

John Swinney is behaving like a petulent child who isn't getting his own way. Does he not realise that his words are being reported? Can you imagine what the international community is making of his comments? If iScotland refuses to take on debt and defaults then no one will lend to us or if they do it will be at Wonga rates.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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