FabSwingers.com forum: Independence part 2

By *bi_scotland OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

The other thread got too big just as I joined it

so I thought I'd start a new one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well you will all be aware of my views and how i am going to vote; I have researched well and put a lot of evidence along with my views on part one.

I am also taking part in leaflet drops, fund raising and have also made a direct donation of £500 and on top of that purchased raffle tickets, bought T-shirts, badges etc

I feel I am doing my part and I truely believe I can hold my head up high whether we win with a YES vote or sadly if a majority no vote.

The only part I will repeat from part one of this is the Huge Oil reserves that have just been found;

Clair Ridge phase 3, this is one of the worlds largest finds and the better together campaign along with westmister are trying to keep cover on this and keep it from being announced until October.

Wish i was one of the guys sitting at home on full wages right now

enjoy your debate

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

It's hardly a secret. The Herald was talking about it back in January.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/business/company-news/bp-eyes-major-new-shetland-investment.22922496

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness

The more I think about things the more selfish I find the politicians in the better together campaign.

Think about it, the leader of the better together campaign is Alistair Darling. If Scotland was to get its independence he wouldnt have a job. Along with the rest of the MP's that have seats in Scotland. Then in 2 years time if we did get independence there would be too many labour candidates for Scotland wanting to stand. And as the current crop of labour MSP's are the 3rd string of politicians in labour due to their disastrous scottish elections, they will be concerned that the current MP's would get to stand before they did.

This new oilfield reiterates how successful scotland could be. Better together campaign are just looking out for their own jobs and not Scotlands best interest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I truly believe that Scotland can and should be a free and independent country. I will be voting to try and ensure it becomes one. It will be the most depressing day of my entire life if people who claim to be fellow Scots vote to be continually ruled from london from now til time ends .It will be the death of all that Scotland was and could be again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

While I don't think this should be a purely financial decision I should say that in 2012 and 2013 the uk treasury took in £3.1 billion in oil tax revenue. This in two years that have seen a drop. Just now Scotland receives 8.4% of this! after September that will be over 90%. Receiving that amount in our first two years would put us in such a strong position. Let's invest this money in education for our children, in hospitals for future generations. Or we could vote no and keep with austerity cuts, the bedroom tax and food banks and spend a billion on a shiny new bomb that the government decided was too dangerous to place near London and put it in the Clyde instead. I know it takes courage and a leap of faith but let's do it for our children.

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By *bi_scotland OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

I think if you exclude people who have a strong attachment to an independent Scotland or a Scotland within the UK and look instead at those who are looking to be convinced either way then the SNP have a massive job to do.

They've been caught out making things up again and this doesn't inspire confidence in them. A few freedom of information requests have been submitted to request the financial models that were used to determine the claim that Scotland could be £5 billion a year better off due to increased productivity, increased employment and immigration. The SNP have tried to block these requests but on appeal have now admitted there is no information. In other words the figures were just made up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Couldn't really care about the cash or the english pound or any of that dross. Scotland should be a free and independent country, it's so damm depressing hearing fellow Scots so totally desperate to make sure their own country never regains it's freedom

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Freeeeeedom..lol. If you think gid auld Mel Gibson was fully clued up...impressed by scots history and nearly wanted to be William Wallace..think again.

Just another film with loads of blood n guts to him, which i kinda noticed is his thing. Ever seen In the name of The Christ? Mad max ? Apocalypto ? Blood n snotters all o them lol.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"Freeeeeedom..lol. If you think gid auld Mel Gibson was fully clued up...impressed by scots history and nearly wanted to be William Wallace..think again.

Just another film with loads of blood n guts to him, which i kinda noticed is his thing. Ever seen In the name of The Christ? Mad max ? Apocalypto ? Blood n snotters all o them lol."

And no where in this thread has Mel Gibson or William Wallace been mentioned. We are talking of being an Independent country, of finally being given the chance to stand up and be counted instead of whining about being "ruled" from London. I loved the film Braveheart, but having studied Medieval Scots History, am well aware that it was very loosely based on facts. And before we even touch on the Jacobite Rebellion, this wasnt the English v Scots, but Government troops against the Stewarts and their supporters eg Scots against Scots (and Irish, welsh, French etc).

Time to get off our hind legs and vote regardless of whether its aye or nay. Personally, I hope it's a resounding AYE!!!!!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".... And before we even touch on the Jacobite Rebellion, this wasnt the English v Scots, but Government troops against the Stewarts and their supporters eg Scots against Scots (and Irish, welsh, French etc).

....."

The Stuart kings will be birling in their graves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seriously ??? No navy. Is why its called the royal navy. We would just have the waverly and western isles ferrys to defend our seas.

Thats a wee example....generally i was joking at mel gibson.

But there are some young and impressionable enough to just watch that film and decide...im voting yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You hope its aye...well greece and ukraine and southern ireland are a few .marvelous examples of how independance works certainly.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

.....

The Stuart kings will be birling in their graves."

Ahh ffs bloody phone changed the spelling of Stuarts and I never noticed doh!

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"You hope its aye...well greece and ukraine and southern ireland are a few .marvelous examples of how independance works certainly."

I stand by what I said. There are a lot of other countries who are independent who are doing very well. As to the youngsters, I don't think we give then enough credit. I listen to my two and their friends and they are well clued up and Braveheart was no where to be seen. If I want to find out anything, I ask them.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

As to our armed forces, what did we do before the Union? Oh that's right, we had our own navy and army, same as England, Ireland and Wales. Not quite the same but albeit forces. Just not HM forces.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

.....

The Stuart kings will be birling in their graves.

Ahh ffs bloody phone changed the spelling of Stuarts and I never noticed doh!"

Not a problem The Wisest Fool in Christendom would have faced.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Was quite a level playing field pre- union....300+ yrs ago...axes, swords etc.

Seen the price of yer average tomahawk missile these days ?lol

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Oil - this tangable asset that belongs to Scotland!! How many years has all this drivel been talked about. How much money does the City of London generate compared to oil? Also oil is a finite resource which will run out eventually so then what? Wind farms, tidal power, whisky and haggis?

The mere fact that Wee Eck got a doing off someone like Alistair Darling is because he hasn't thought it all through properly.

All those people who vote yes genuinely don't know what they are voting for as the terms of seperation are to be negotiated AFTER the vote.

If you say a car advertised for £5,000 with no description, details or photograph would you buy it? If you wouldn't buy the car then why vote for something equally uncertain as independance.

Before all you start having a go at me I am Scottish, born in Glasgow, live in Glasgow,holiday in Scotland and eat the occasional haggis.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Was quite a level playing field pre- union....300+ yrs ago...axes, swords etc.

Seen the price of yer average tomahawk missile these days ?lol"

I believe the Tomahawk guidance system is made in Fife.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".....

If you say a car advertised for £5,000 with no description, details or photograph would you buy it? If you wouldn't buy the car then why vote for something equally uncertain as independance.

.....

Eck would tell you the car comes in a pretty tartan poke.

It'll still be a pig.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes..part of an american owned company from Arizona.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

"Couldn't really care about the cash or the english pound or any of that dross. Scotland should be a free and independent country, it's so damm depressing hearing fellow Scots so totally desperate to make sure their own country never regains it's freedom"

Freedom at any cost eh!

So you're quite happy to throw 20 - 40,000 fellow Scots on the dole as the Scottish financial services industry heads south for the protection afforded by a lender of last resort. How many families would that impact?

That's not my figure, it's from a BNP paribas report on the use of sterling outside a currency union by an independent Scotland.

You might be sitting comfortably, but there are a hell of a lot of us out here that see through the 'it will be all right, trust me I'm Alex' routine.

As it is, I'm glad you're depressed and hope you're even disgusted on the 19th as, if the polls are correct, Scotland votes to remain in the union.

80 years of planning, to serve up such a dogs dinner of a manifesto, you get all you deserve.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

From the Evening Standard

In a lengthy essay on what he describes as the “hubris” of Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond, journalist Chris Deerin offers this titbit in the Scottish Daily Mail.

Describing a jaunt by Salmond to the Scottish Parliament’s restaurant, Deerin writes “upon sitting down, the First Minister regally held out his hands. An accompanying flunkey whipped out some hand sanitiser and reverently smeared it onto the sacred mitts of power.”

The Londoner was reminded of an anecdote by a Holyrood regular, which we have never quite believed. He claims to have once been in the company of the First Minister when his shoelace came undone. Without so much as a click of the fingers an aide knelt down and retied it. It’s the sort of indulgence that would give Prince Charles a run for his money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You hope its aye...well greece and ukraine and southern ireland are a few .marvelous examples of how independance works certainly."

Four weeks Ireland was given a higher financial grading than the uk by the IMF. let's keep this to the facts rather than just trotting out some myths.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Was quite a level playing field pre- union....300+ yrs ago...axes, swords etc.

Seen the price of yer average tomahawk missile these days ?lol"

The price of the new trident is a £1 billion pounds to the Scottish people. Personally I'd rather have more teachers, or nurses, or policemen!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oil - this tangable asset that belongs to Scotland!! How many years has all this drivel been talked about. How much money does the City of London generate compared to oil? Also oil is a finite resource which will run out eventually so then what? Wind farms, tidal power, whisky and haggis?

The mere fact that Wee Eck got a doing off someone like Alistair Darling is because he hasn't thought it all through properly.

All those people who vote yes genuinely don't know what they are voting for as the terms of seperation are to be negotiated AFTER the vote.

If you say a car advertised for £5,000 with no description, details or photograph would you buy it? If you wouldn't buy the car then why vote for something equally uncertain as independance.

Before all you start having a go at me I am Scottish, born in Glasgow, live in Glasgow,holiday in Scotland and eat the occasional haggis.

From 2012 and 2013 the Westminster treasury got £3.1 billion pounds from oil tax revenue, yeah such a poor return, who would want that? Well I'm sure France Belgium Germany etc etc would all be very grateful to have this mill stone around there necks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Freedom

Regardless of risk

Regardless of cost

Is far better than to actively seek with such determination to be for ever ruled by the english

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Freedom at any cost eh!

That's not my figure, it's from a BNP paribas report on the use of sterling outside a currency union by an independent Scotland.

You might be sitting comfortably, but there are a hell of a lot of us out here that see through the 'it will be all right, trust me I'm Alex' routine.

As it is, I'm glad you're depressed and hope you're even disgusted on the 19th as, if the polls are correct, Scotland votes to remain in the union.

80 years of planning, to serve up such a dogs dinner of a manifesto, you get all you deserve. "

I'm sure we were cheering when the Westminster government shut ravenscraig to keep Sheffield steel open, when they said Scotland would house trident as it was too dangerous to have it near London, when they shut down Scotland's coal industry. But hey your argument to have a go at wee Alex is a sound political one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"From the Evening Standard

In a lengthy essay on what he describes as the “hubris” of Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond, journalist Chris Deerin offers this titbit in the Scottish Daily Mail.

Ha ha and you BELIEVE THAT! No wonder your voting no! Lol but then the daily Tory...I mean mail attacking the Scottish government! Who could believe they would tell a lie. Moronic!

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

Freedom at any cost eh!

That's not my figure, it's from a BNP paribas report on the use of sterling outside a currency union by an independent Scotland.

You might be sitting comfortably, but there are a hell of a lot of us out here that see through the 'it will be all right, trust me I'm Alex' routine.

As it is, I'm glad you're depressed and hope you're even disgusted on the 19th as, if the polls are correct, Scotland votes to remain in the union.

80 years of planning, to serve up such a dogs dinner of a manifesto, you get all you deserve.

Do you know where Aldermaston and Burghfield are? Do you know what they do there?

http://www.awe.co.uk/

As for shutting down coal and the Craig, our own stupidity was partly to blame. As much as the stupidity of the management.

Neither side modernised quick enough, on the plant and infrastructure side as much as the working practices side.

The 'that's no ma joab' to the 'we can milk another year out that 25 yr old machine' mentality.

Thatcher and her ilk didn't help, but the seeds of the destruction were sown long before her reign. (P's I hate her with a passion that knows no bounds, may she burn forever in the firey pits of hell, but to solely blame her for generations of fuck ups is wrong)

The Yes campaign paints a land of milk and honey, no drawbacks and no pain.

A smoke screen at best down right dishonest at the worst.

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By *bi_scotland OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"You hope its aye...well greece and ukraine and southern ireland are a few .marvelous examples of how independance works certainly.

Four weeks Ireland was given a higher financial grading than the uk by the IMF. let's keep this to the facts rather than just trotting out some myths."

Which particular financial rating are you referring to?

Btw, you do realise unemployment is running at a huge level in Ireland?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You hope its aye...well greece and ukraine and southern ireland are a few .marvelous examples of how independance works certainly.

Four weeks Ireland was given a higher financial grading than the uk by the IMF. let's keep this to the facts rather than just trotting out some myths.

Which particular financial rating are you referring to?

Btw, you do realise unemployment is running at a huge level in Ireland?"

The rating each country gets from the IMF. And do you think unemployment is low here? The vast majority of jobs that have been created are Low paid part time jobs! In the last decade there has been a new class created called 'the working poor'.

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By *bi_scotland OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"You hope its aye...well greece and ukraine and southern ireland are a few .marvelous examples of how independance works certainly.

Four weeks Ireland was given a higher financial grading than the uk by the IMF. let's keep this to the facts rather than just trotting out some myths.

Which particular financial rating are you referring to?

Btw, you do realise unemployment is running at a huge level in Ireland?

Do you have a link to it or the article it was in? Wouldn't mind reading it.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

I for one am not naive to think all will be milk and honey. But I worry even more about what Westminster has in store for us so would rather take my chances with an Independent Scotland where my vote will actually count in any General election.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Was quite a level playing field pre- union....300+ yrs ago...axes, swords etc.

Seen the price of yer average tomahawk missile these days ?lol

The price of the new trident is a £1 billion pounds to the Scottish people. Personally I'd rather have more teachers, or nurses, or policemen!"
Exclusively just the Scots paying the £1 billion?

Just watched some latest news on Iraq, saw what happened to people with no weapons to deter evil attacking them.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

"I for one am not naive to think all will be milk and honey. But I worry even more about what Westminster has in store for us so would rather take my chances with an Independent Scotland where my vote will actually count in any General election. "

Good for you, unfortunately I don't trust folk that think it's best to do away with corroboration and appoint 'state guardians' for your kids.

Watch this space, news paper headline 'Father commits suicide after false accusation'

A father committed suicide after being accused of abusing his kids.

After an investigation, it was found that these claims were based solely on the word of the state guardian.

When approached the council concerned stated 'We're sorry the gentleman took his life, but it's a small price to pay for the protection of our children'

As for your vote counting, yes for those you elect. But with the current scottish system we get folk like our 'list system' External affairs minister, traipsing the world at our expense.

£60k jobs for political apparatchiks.

That's the Scottish equivalent of the house of Lords dressed up like a pig with lipstick.

Snouts in the trough!

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Freedom

Regardless of risk

Regardless of cost

Is far better than to actively seek with such determination to be for ever ruled by the english"
regardless of risk and cost!! If your mortgage costs doubled because of the cost of borrowing in an independant scotland you may well regret that statement.

Risk - an unknown quantity as no one knows what the terms would be.

Freedom -you are hardly under the heel of a dictator. This is not north korea.

Westminster did not close scottish mines. From my recollection the miners went out on strike. When the mines flooded thecstrikers refused to let in maintenance staff which would hsve saved the mines.

Was ravenscraig not a private company who closed due to financial reasons and not another anti scottish conspiracy theory?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mortgage? Lol, where would i find the cash for one of those? Come freedom day if I end up poor, so what, I come from a poor family, been poor before, might well be poor again . But for the chance to be free from westminster then bring it on . freedom Regardless of cost

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

"Mortgage? Lol, where would i find the cash for one of those? Come freedom day if I end up poor, so what, I come from a poor family, been poor before, might well be poor again . But for the chance to be free from westminster then bring it on . freedom Regardless of cost"

So that's what you mean by a fairer, more equal Scotland. .

We'll all be poor together, nowt fairer than that.

Bollix! I've worked hard to get what I've got and where I've got to.

I ain't gonna give it up for some esoteric idea 'freedom'.

'Freedom' don't put the food on the table.

Shed your victim, oppressed mentality - keep wallowing in it and you will always be poor.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

5 weeks from now we will have our answer and all the debating will be done , during the big debate, ales said "the people of Scotland will vote for a government they want" and he is correct in any vote the majority wins , so if its a yes , we are all in it and will have to get on with it and see how it goes , however if its a no, will the SNP, accept the result and get on with doing their job in government, OR will they decide the majority got it wrong and go for it again?

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

"5 weeks from now we will have our answer and all the debating will be done , during the big debate, ales said "the people of Scotland will vote for a government they want" and he is correct in any vote the majority wins , so if its a yes , we are all in it and will have to get on with it and see how it goes , however if its a no, will the SNP, accept the result and get on with doing their job in government, OR will they decide the majority got it wrong and go for it again? "

Option 2. The Qubec option.

Onwards, ever onwards the neverendum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ity got it wrong and go for it again? "

Only 19% of the Scottish electorate voted Tory at the last election and we got the Tory government that imposed the bedroom tax. There is only one con-dem mp in Scotland and yet they impose their rule over us!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ity got it wrong and go for it again?

we got a tory government because the lib dems joined them , a lot of people didn't vote labour because of the financial collapse ,which was a worldwide problem, however a lot of people have joined forces with the tories even the snp

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its a coalition government,, a wee bit lib dem, a big bit Tory, mainly due to people voting for a change, thinking lib dems promises were worth a go.

Sounds familiar hu ?

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

ity got it wrong and go for it again?

1979, 11 Snp MP's vote with Mrs Thatcher and her conservative party to bring down the incumbent labour government. Thatcher returned to Westminster as prime minister with a majority.

Last Scottish Elections.

Only 22% of the total scottish electorate (46% of the votes cast) were for the SNP.

I will let you muse on that little fact.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Freedom is subjective. All this nonsense about increased freedom under an independant scotland makes it sound like they are living under some sort of dictatorship.

Some people really need to grow up and see the big picture and not some heather and roamin in the gloamin rose tinted picture of scotland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All Scottish NO voters better pray that Scotland gets Independence

because if a no vote; England will be shouting for "devolution for England" and this will happen within the next few years

This will mean that Scotland will vote within Westminster as and when England decide.

This will mean Wales will vote within Westminster as and when England decide

same with N. Ireland

if you watched BBC2 tonight "What will happen to UK if Scotland votes no" the Whole of Scotland should be running scared if we do vote no

Nigel Farage ment every word as did, Tories and Scotland will suffer greatly should we have a no vote.

If you done believe me, then replay BBC2 9:30 Scotland Votes: Rest of the UK

if you even consider voting NO then watch this first

I am very surprised the BBC viewed this as they are well known to be biased as "better together"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All Scottish NO voters better pray that Scotland gets Independence

because if a no vote; England will be shouting for "devolution for England" and this will happen within the next few years

This will mean that Scotland will vote within Westminster as and when England decide.

This will mean Wales will vote within Westminster as and when England decide

same with N. Ireland

if you watched BBC2 tonight "What will happen to UK if Scotland votes no" the Whole of Scotland should be running scared if we do vote no

Nigel Farage ment every word as did, Tories and Scotland will suffer greatly should we have a no vote.

If you done believe me, then replay BBC2 9:30 Scotland Votes: Rest of the UK

if you even consider voting NO then watch this first

I am very surprised the BBC viewed this as they are well known to be biased as "better together""
What about English No voters in Scotland ?

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By *eonardo Da VinciMan
over a year ago

manchester

"Freedom is subjective. All this nonsense about increased freedom under an independant scotland makes it sound like they are living under some sort of dictatorship.

Some people really need to grow up and see the big picture and not some heather and roamin in the gloamin rose tinted picture of scotland."

. Touche! Just watched the debate. Beware of the "faustian bargain" all those that want independence! Everything that glitters is not golden!". Stop making out Scotland is somehow oppressed!

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

"All Scottish NO voters better pray that Scotland gets Independence

because if a no vote; England will be shouting for "devolution for England" and this will happen within the next few years

This will mean that Scotland will vote within Westminster as and when England decide.

This will mean Wales will vote within Westminster as and when England decide

same with N. Ireland

if you watched BBC2 tonight "What will happen to UK if Scotland votes no" the Whole of Scotland should be running scared if we do vote no

Nigel Farage ment every word as did, Tories and Scotland will suffer greatly should we have a no vote.

If you done believe me, then replay BBC2 9:30 Scotland Votes: Rest of the UK

if you even consider voting NO then watch this first

I am very surprised the BBC viewed this as they are well known to be biased as "better together""

All that answers is the West Lothian Question.

The West Lothian question refers to the debate in the United Kingdom over whether members of parliament from outside England – from Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales– can vote on matters that affect only England.

The name "West Lothian question" was coined after Tam Dalyell, Labour MP for the Scottish constituency of West Lothian, raised the matter in 1977 during a British House of Commons debate over Scottish and Welsh devolution.[1] Since the beginning of Devolution and especially the establishment in the 1990s of the new Welsh and Northern Irish Assemblies and Scottish Parliament, this question has taken on a new urgency. In September 2011, it was announced that the UK government was to set up a commission to examine the West Lothian question."

Stop fear mongering.

Ooh big bad Boris/Nigel/David/John/The tories/the english/them - there gonna get yah!

Nigel Farage is nothing but a protest vote winner. They'll be lucky to get 2 - 3 seats max at a general election.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What about the English no voters in Scotland"

what about them? you tell me; what about the English YES voters and believe me there are many.

what about the Northern English that cannot vote and want to side with the Scots. I work with many English who will consider moving up should a YES vote win.

Touche! Just watched the debate. Beware of the "faustian bargain" all those that want independence! Everything that glitters is not golden!". Stop making out Scotland is somehow oppressed

did you notice how little the went into the Clair find and never mentioned Clair Ridge I&II and certainly never mentioned Clair Ridge III which will not be announced until October, true everything that glitters is not golden, the glitter of Clair ridge is brown crude at a pressure of 1000bar (HP/HT) and worth more than UK gold

one of the worlds largest finds

that is why Total are building a new gas refinery

that is why BP is investing £15 Billion into Sullem Voe

That is why Chevron is building new jackets for oil rigs in South Korea

wait a minute!!! why South Korea???? because Scottish Yards are fully booked with work through to 2018 and that would be the earliest they could accommodate Chevron, same reason as no ship building because Scottish yards are fully booked with Oil platform jackets and wind turbine orders

George Osborne and Danny alexander failed to mention that

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

What does the B in BP stand for?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Freedom, independence, self determination, no more westminster rule by posh davie and his mate cleggie, no potential rule by the boy miliband or farage and boris.

These things might not glitter and shine like gold,but to dream of freedom from england? I never thought in my lifetime would the chance come to be free

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Chevron are building in South Korea because of their tie up with GS Caltex.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

that is why Total are building a new gas refinery

1.BECAUSE IT'S NEEDED

that is why BP is investing £15 Billion into Sullem Voe

2. SEE POINT 1

That is why Chevron is building new jackets for oil rigs in South Korea

3. SEE POINT 1

George Osborne and Danny alexander failed to mention that.

4. Wow, inside this hated union these scottish yards are so busy!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Freedom, independence, self determination, no more westminster rule by posh davie and his mate cleggie, no potential rule by the boy miliband or farage and boris.

These things might not glitter and shine like gold,but to dream of freedom from england? I never thought in my lifetime would the chance come to be free"

Dream on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dreaming is free, and so will Scotland be

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Freedom, independence, self determination, no more westminster rule by posh davie and his mate cleggie, no potential rule by the boy miliband or farage and boris.

These things might not glitter and shine like gold,but to dream of freedom from england? I never thought in my lifetime would the chance come to be free"

free from what?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What does the B in BP stand for?"

it used to stand for British, today it stands for nothing

BP is now global and deals with Russia as well as many world wide counties. the UK used to have little interest to BP until Clair Ridge was discovered, now due to that things have changed

TNK-BP is a vertically integrated oil company with a diversified upstream and downstream portfolio in Russia and Ukraine. Its upstream operations are located primarily in Siberia and Volga-Urals region

BP will deal with Russia on a same parallel as UK as long as it makes money

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

"Freedom, independence, self determination, no more westminster rule by posh davie and his mate cleggie, no potential rule by the boy miliband or farage and boris.

These things might not glitter and shine like gold,but to dream of freedom from england? I never thought in my lifetime would the chance come to be free"

"The victim is strong in this one Master"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Freedom, independence, self determination, no more westminster rule by posh davie and his mate cleggie, no potential rule by the boy miliband or farage and boris.

These things might not glitter and shine like gold,but to dream of freedom from england? I never thought in my lifetime would the chance come to be free"

Thinking practically/specifically. Will this mean more paperwork, customs invoices for each and everything exported 200 miles down the bloody road ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Chevron are building in South Korea because of their tie up with GS Caltex."

I can assure you they approached Scottish yards first

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

"Chevron are building in South Korea because of their tie up with GS Caltex.

I can assure you they approached Scottish yards first"

Building wind turbines for UK funded renewable energy market.

Which will dry up on independence, as the 58 million customers in r UK reduce the green tarrifs to the Scottish energy market.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ok heres one , the yes vote wins

so England takes the hump and decides to exile all the scots living and working there ,you no the ones , they cant vote cause the don't live here.

so Scotland takes the hump and tell all the English sorry you gotta piss off , yea even if you did vote yes , but get yer kit and shift!!

now that might work , as all the jobs done by non Scottish folk would come free for the one sent back from England , glad we sorted that one out ,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If that's the position england will adopt when Scotland becomes free then it just highlights how unpleasant the government at westminster really is

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Chevron are building in South Korea because of their tie up with GS Caltex.

I can assure you they approached Scottish yards first"

Of course they did.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Big NO vote from me

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By *ootlover456Man
over a year ago

Paisley

Yes from me.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

"If that's the position england will adopt when Scotland becomes free then it just highlights how unpleasant the government at westminster really is"

Or like some rabid nats say.. If you vote no, you gotta go.

"Traitors, quislings, Tories, not a true Scot, Uncle Jocks" are things thrown at No Voters.

Bitter?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If that's the position england will adopt when Scotland becomes free then it just highlights how unpleasant the government at westminster really is"

err you do realise what I wrote was a joke??

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

Off to bed, work calls at 6 am.

But I'll leave you with this.

If Scotland votes yes, how does the Scottish Government expect to complete every negotiation with the r UK within the ~18 month time frame. Especially when there is a UK general election during the negotiating period.

Maybe they can borrow Dr Who's Tardis and stretch the boundaries of time and space.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Off to bed, work calls at 6 am.

But I'll leave you with this.

Maybe they can borrow Dr Who's Tardis and stretch the boundaries of time and space."

That will be a concern of the rUK

anyone from Scotland should be very worried if they vote no and have no means or funds to escape Scotland after a no vote

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

any genuine concerns or questions of a yes vote I will happily answer

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

"any genuine concerns or questions of a yes vote I will happily answer"

Independence is independence.

Why are the Yes proposals such a pick n mix of independence and interdependence.

We'll set our own taxes, change corporation tax, immigration and remove wmd.

But we'll keep using the pound, BOE, DVLA, passport office, embassies, intelligence services, tax collection and we'll have open boarders and free movement. Oh and research funding too.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"Off to bed, work calls at 6 am.

But I'll leave you with this.

Maybe they can borrow Dr Who's Tardis and stretch the boundaries of time and space.

That will be a concern of the rUK

anyone from Scotland should be very worried if they vote no and have no means or funds to escape Scotland after a no vote"
the worst part of this is you probably wholeheartedly believe it I mean you have all the answers as you are now going to waylay everyones fears and make us hold hands rush into the heather singing freedom as we bathe in oil and collect the keys to our massaratis ...........pass .....will stick with my own views im inteligent to have listened and read enough to make my own choices

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Just an aside.

Following Mr Darling's public kicking of Salmond's bahookie last week, Better Together has received so many donations of money, they've had to ask people to stop donating

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Scotland will be a very rich nation with all the oil revenues !!!!

If Shetland decides it wants to go indy as they don't see themselves as very Scottish then they will be a very rich group of islands after all who would want to deny them their rights of independence !!!!!!

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By *bi_scotland OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Four weeks Ireland was given a higher financial grading than the uk by the IMF. let's keep this to the facts rather than just trotting out some myths."

Did you find a source for this yet? I've searched the IMF site and can't find it there, or anywhere else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I take everyone has heard the news released from the bank of England who are making plans in case of a YES vote

Danny Alexander is not a happy chap, now is that because of the bank of England or due to the fact that the whole of Scotland despises that man

should he be called a man? perhaps not

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By *bi_scotland OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

I've heard it but not sure what point you're trying to make. It would be gross mismanagement if the bank wasn't putting contingency plans in place.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"any genuine concerns or questions of a yes vote I will happily answer"

What are the terms of seperation?

You will need a crystal ball as there won't be any negotiations until after a yes vote so you are voting for something but don't know what!!

All this talk of freedom. You lot don't know what oppression really is but it makes a nice slogan for Mel Gibson in Braveheart. At least Braveheart was known to be fiction.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Scotland will be a very rich nation with all the oil revenues !!!!

Love it!! They see themselves as more Nordic than Scottish so I wonder if Wee Eck has thought that one out as he seems not to have thought out anything else properly.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"any genuine concerns or questions of a yes vote I will happily answer"

I have one...

ahem....

Plan b?

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Fabio, how could you ask such a question???

Wee Eck has all the answers it's just that he likes to keep them to himself.

Even when he was getting a "doing" off Alistair Darling he still refused to reveal the secret of Plan B

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The northern islands becoming independent? Not a problem with that, everyone deserves to be free. They might be up shit creak if they think they will be able to wrestle englands grasping hands off the oil, Scotland hasn't managed that yet

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Here we go again!! Scotland's oil, yawn. It is no more Scotland's oil than shale oil/gas is England's. It all goes into the big kitty of which we all benefit.

What are we going to do when they can't get any more oil from the North Sea which will happen in my childrens' lifetime?

Big bad England is after my oil. What about the wealth created by the City of London? At least that source of income is sustainable and will last longer than oil. Oil or financial services are both assets of the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The only plan b that darling really gives a hoot about is one that will allow him to restart flip flopping the designation of some of his homes so he can slurp up another shit load of cash, if Scotland becomes free and self determining it will cut down the amount of loot he will be able to get his hands on.

he will just be restricted to helping himself to english taxpayers cash instead of the whole of the disunited Briton

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

as an aside... at least alex will get a 2nd chance at darling...

debate 2 now confirmed for august 25th....

wonder what alex will be swotting up on...

well at least he will have 12 days to try and come up with an answer for "plan b" and do it without either his nose growing pinochio style... or in fact just trying to keep a straight face!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When Scotland becomes a free and self determining country Scotland should give the north of england the chance to escape the dead hand of tory rule, they can apply to become part of Scotland again

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By *candiumWoman
over a year ago

oban

Proud no voter here. British and proud of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Looking back over Britain's marvellous involvement in slavery, opium, invading countries killing the local population and stealing everything of values. Torturing the people who might want their country back, Kenya is a lovely example, not much to be proud about

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Looking back over Britain's marvellous involvement in slavery, opium, invading countries killing the local population and stealing everything of values. Torturing the people who might want their country back, Kenya is a lovely example, not much to be proud about"

Think it was King Alexander of Scotland who, due to fear of losing his reign in future, took the new born baby of next in line's family and killed it.

We aint any better sometimes.

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By *unglasgow69Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

People's Xenophobic attitudes towards England really is bordering on racist. If you want to vote yes then fine but least come up with something better than your Xenophobic anti English nonsense.

For me I'm proud to be British. Feel nothing prouder when I see someone represent the Uk & be successful & see the Union Flag flying. Because I'm proud to be British does not mean I am not also proud to be Scottish.

Unfortunately too many in the Yes campaign cannot differentiate between the two.

So will be a massive NO from me. Uk all the way & hopefully after Sept 17th & we are still part of the Uk the Nats will finally give it a rest.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

No nation is free from their history as i am sure germany would love to turn the clock back.

We have plenty to be proud of being british. My 18 year old father landed in normandy to help liberate the true oppressed of europe and not the people in this forum who want "freedom". He almost died in france and had shrapnel in his face until he died. He was a scottish soldier in a scottish regiment. He only kept 3 things from his time in the army. His cap badge; his 51st highland division shoulder flash and his union jack flag from his bicycle. He fought for real freedom as his all the boys of his age.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

Think it was King Alexander of Scotland who, due to fear of losing his reign in future, took the new born baby of next in line's family and killed it.

We aint any better sometimes."

Which one? There were 3, the last one dying after falling from the cliffs at Burntisland as he was trying to get to Kinghorn to his new young, second wife. The Wars of Independence were a direct result of his untimely death.

I am a Yes supporter, but I'm not a Nat nor do I hate the English.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh no the "dead hand of the tories"..ffs how long can people genuinely whine on about it. Whilst some of their policies are less than desirable someone has to make hard choices...all these "free" services need to be paid for. At least the UK economy is growing again after the balloons that were Blair and Brown pissed away the good years from 1997-2004. But I guess there are a folk who want it all for nothing. Services have been cut due to the SNP'S FREEZE on council tax....thats the reality. ..Big no from me and almost everyone I know....ps clair ridge....its not going to save us...I know I work for BP....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh no the "dead hand of the tories"..ffs how long can people genuinely whine on about it. Whilst some of their policies are less than desirable someone has to make hard choices...all these "free" services need to be paid for. At least the UK economy is growing again after the balloons that were Blair and Brown pissed away the good years from 1997-2004. But I guess there are a folk who want it all for nothing. Services have been cut due to the SNP'S FREEZE on council tax....thats the reality. ..Big no from me and almost everyone I know....ps clair ridge....its not going to save us...I know I work for BP...."

i and many of my family and friends have voted labour all our lives but every single one of them are voting yes because new right wing labour are no better than the tories and have forgoten their socialist values so a massive yes here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I truly believe that Scotland can and should be a free and independent country. I will be voting to try and ensure it becomes one. It will be the most depressing day of my entire life if people who claim to be fellow Scots vote to be continually ruled from london from now til time ends .It will be the death of all that Scotland was and could be again"

I take it you would not have Scotland join Europe either then?

A lot of the complaints I hear from Scots about London are the same complaints I hear from English people about Europe. 'They take our money', 'they control us' etc. But what Euro skeptics fail to see is that joining a united Europe has greatly facilitated free trade and boosted our economy. As much as I resent Brussels' interference, the bigger picture is the advantages outweigh the disadvantages IMHO.

On the subject of 'freedom', Scottish MPs can vote in the House of Commons on uniquely English issues and with our largely two party system quite often provide the decisive votes. Tantamount to 'rule' by the Scots if you ask me!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think it was King Alexander of Scotland who, due to fear of losing his reign in future, took the new born baby of next in line's family and killed it.

We aint any better sometimes.

Which one? There were 3, the last one dying after falling from the

cliffs at Burntisland as he was trying to get to Kinghorn to his new young, second wife. The Wars of Independence were a direct result of his untimely death.

I am a Yes supporter, but I'm not a Nat nor do I hate the English."
Which one ? Google it...granted not as much fun as trying to make a fool of .me. As for "we will be free " and all that dramatic sounding nonsense. We already are free. Maybe check out current wars and ethnic cleansing. We very are free by comparison.

Theres enough religion to have wars just not enough religion to achive world peace.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

when tory london has its say on europe Scotland could well find its self leaving it whether we want to or not if they still have the whip hand over us after referendum day.

Scots voting on english issues ?its not nice when the boot is on the other foot , ever since scotland ceased to be a self determining country english mp's in london have been deciding what should happen up here .its only reciently they have to an extent been persuaded not to

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Did SNP not so long ago earn itself the reputation of being the scottish torys ??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and also gave stability to some fairly wild parts of the world which are now democracies such as india.

i am sure that the survivors of the Jallainwala bagh massacre were thoroughly delighted that they were on the receiving end of a bit of british stability. britian doesn't have a great deal to be proud about

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes it does. If not for a united britain, we would all be german.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

a few of britians better moments ?

the slaughter of my ain folk in the north after 1746

jallainwala massacre

concentration camps for boer women and children and more concentration camps for native peoples, and they still doent know how many local folks died in those camps because it didnt really bother them to count

kenya , the torture and castration of people who just wanted their country back

Ireland

not a great deal to swell the chest with pride

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"when tory london has its say on europe Scotland could well find its self leaving it whether we want to or not if they still have the whip hand over us after referendum day.

Not at all, I wouldn't assume that Scottish MPs in Westminster would automatically be against my interests because I am English, to suggest as such would be rather racist? I was merely trying to demonstrate that political influence goes both ways across the border. Personally I hope the Scottish labour MPs remain after September and beyond.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if you offer a nice enough expenses package , like the one that caused the expenses scandal then you could well find yourself overrun with labour mp's heading south pronto to fill their pockets

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i wonder if the people of Diego Garcia will ever get their country back ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ps clair ridge....its not going to save us...I know I work for BP...."

Then you should also know that BP are only part of Clair Ridge, there are 27 CO-OWNERS invested in the development a few of them being Shell, Conocophilips, BP, Total & Chevron, what to list the others!!!, I know them, do you?

Total are building a huge gas refinary right now as we chat here

You will be aware of BP's huge investment in its own Gas sweetening plant, you will also be aware that there will be a £15 billion investment in SVT

remember Claire Ridge is only one of many developements.

Chevron are having platforms built right now as we debate, Total are having jackets built as is Shell

if you work for BP then you should be aware of phase 3 & the greater Clair project, care to shed some light.

Westminster is saying that financial profit in North sea is lower during 2013/2014 and of course it is, because are companies are spending huge on the new developements, exploration has already been done and jackets are being built worldwide as scottish yards are fully booked through to 2018 (and thats why no ship building in scottish yards) as they are fully booked with order for jackets

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why do no voters have no faith in Scotland becoming an Independent country, gaining independence from the UK exactly the same as these countries that have became Independent from the UK;

Antigua and Barbuda - 1981

Australia - 1986

Bahamas - 1973

Barain - 1971

Barbados - 1966

Belize - 1981

Botswana - 1966

Brunei - 1984

CANADA - 1982

Cyprus - 1960

Dominica - 1978

Egypt - 1922

Fiji - 1970

Gambia - 1965

Ghanda - 1957

Grenada - 1974

Guyana - 1966

India - 1947

Israel - 1948

Iraq - 1932

Republic of ireland - 1922

Jamaica - 1962

Jordan - 1946

Kenya - 1963

Kuwait - 1961

Lesotho - 1966

Malawi - 1964

MALAYSIA - 1957

Maldives - 1965

MALTA - 1964

Mauritius - 1968

NewZealand - 1986

Nigeria - 1960

Pakistan - 1947

Papua New Guinae - 1975

Saint Lucia - 1979

Seyscelles - 1961

South Africa - 1961

United Arab Emirates - 1971

United States - 1776

Do you consider Scotland any less than any of these countries above who also broke away from UK with Independence; Scotland is a wealthy nation and my god, people of scotland have faith in your own country and your own people

Vote YES

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

Think it was King Alexander of Scotland who, due to fear of losing his reign in future, took the new born baby of next in line's family and killed it.

We aint any better sometimes.

Which one? There were 3, the last one dying after falling from the

cliffs at Burntisland as he was trying to get to Kinghorn to his new young, second wife. The Wars of Independence were a direct result of his untimely death.

I am a Yes supporter, but I'm not a Nat nor do I hate the English. Which one ? Google it...granted not as much fun as trying to make a fool of .me. As for "we will be free " and all that dramatic sounding nonsense. We already are free. Maybe check out current wars and ethnic cleansing. We very are free by comparison.

Theres enough religion to have wars just not enough religion to achive world peace."

I would have Googled had I had time and it was a question asked seriously not an attempt to make fun of you. I could not recall which Alexander you were referring to. My memory isn't what it used to be. In future I will keep my thoughts and opinions to myself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

These countries were never part of the United Kingdom. They largely broke away from the now obsolete British Empire which is hardly the same thing.

Can't believe you are citing Ireland, Egypt, South Africa and Nigeria as positive examples!?

I don't think anyone really thinks Scotland can't be an independent country, the question is more would it be advantageous to be?

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"These countries were never part of the United Kingdom. They largely broke away from the now obsolete British Empire which is hardly the same thing.

Can't believe you are citing Ireland, Egypt, South Africa and Nigeria as positive examples!?

I don't think anyone really thinks Scotland can't be an independent country, the question is more would it be advantageous to be?"

Was gonna post something similar.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Did SNP not so long ago earn itself the reputation of being the scottish torys ??

Yep. Tartan Tories aka Maggie's Midwives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Our debating will rage on and on,the one thing that matters is everyone uses their vote,their voice and just vote,im so strong for YES but i feel unfortunately the vote may sway against us ,the amount of folk that dont use their vote is shocking,,we debate but we dont vote? Naaaa,we,re scots we love to be heard ,so lets everyone make the right choice and vote for your children and your grandchildren not for us ,for them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Will be definitely be voting a resounding YES in September. I am not in any way anti English nor a huge supporter of Alex Salmond. I firmly believe that we have the credentials to be an Independent Country, lets hope that we can deliver. If the fact that one in five children are living in poverty and there are over 1000 foodbanks in Scotland at present. How can that possibly be 'Better Together' and why has the UK govt not done something about it. There are as many children in England in the same position, if not more according to Oxfam. Better Together I think not!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why do no voters have no faith in Scotland becoming an Independent country, gaining independence from the UK exactly the same as these countries that have became Independent from the UK;

Antigua and Barbuda - 1981

Australia - 1986

Bahamas - 1973

Barain - 1971

Barbados - 1966

Belize - 1981

Botswana - 1966

Brunei - 1984

CANADA - 1982

Cyprus - 1960

Dominica - 1978

Egypt - 1922

Fiji - 1970

Gambia - 1965

Ghanda - 1957

Grenada - 1974

Guyana - 1966

India - 1947

Israel - 1948

Iraq - 1932

Republic of ireland - 1922

Jamaica - 1962

Jordan - 1946

Kenya - 1963

Kuwait - 1961

Lesotho - 1966

Malawi - 1964

MALAYSIA - 1957

Maldives - 1965

MALTA - 1964

Mauritius - 1968

NewZealand - 1986

Nigeria - 1960

Pakistan - 1947

Papua New Guinae - 1975

Saint Lucia - 1979

Seyscelles - 1961

South Africa - 1961

United Arab Emirates - 1971

United States - 1776

Vote YES"

Not forgetting Ireland (Eire) 1921 and they had a currency union until they got on their feet!!!!

Vote YES

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Why do no voters have no faith in Scotland becoming an Independent country, gaining independence from the UK exactly the same as these countries that have became Independent from the UK;

Antigua and Barbuda - 1981

Australia - 1986

Bahamas - 1973

Barain - 1971

Barbados - 1966

Belize - 1981

Botswana - 1966

Brunei - 1984

CANADA - 1982

Cyprus - 1960

Dominica - 1978

Egypt - 1922

Fiji - 1970

Gambia - 1965

Ghanda - 1957

Grenada - 1974

Guyana - 1966

India - 1947

Israel - 1948

Iraq - 1932

Republic of ireland - 1922

Jamaica - 1962

Jordan - 1946

Kenya - 1963

Kuwait - 1961

Lesotho - 1966

Malawi - 1964

MALAYSIA - 1957

Maldives - 1965

MALTA - 1964

Mauritius - 1968

NewZealand - 1986

Nigeria - 1960

Pakistan - 1947

Papua New Guinae - 1975

Saint Lucia - 1979

Seyscelles - 1961

South Africa - 1961

United Arab Emirates - 1971

United States - 1776

Vote YES

Not forgetting Ireland (Eire) 1921 and they had a currency union until they got on their feet!!!!

Vote YES"

They had a currency union because both sides agreed to it.

That's not the case here.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"These countries were never part of the United Kingdom. They largely broke away from the now obsolete British Empire which is hardly the same thing.

Can't believe you are citing Ireland, Egypt, South Africa and Nigeria as positive examples!?

I don't think anyone really thinks Scotland can't be an independent country, the question is more would it be advantageous to be?"

Completely correct in this assessment. Some of these were Crown Protectorates and not joined at the hip the way we are to the rest of the UK.

Food banks are not going to disappear overnight in an independant Scotland. If anything it will get worse when firms relocate to the rUK and even more people lose their jobs or are forced down South to keep a job.

Basically a Yes vote is a vote for something that hasn't been decided yet. No one knows what the terms of seperation would be so a Yes voter doesn't actually know what they are voting for.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"The northern islands becoming independent? Not a problem with that, everyone deserves to be free. They might be up shit creak if they think they will be able to wrestle englands grasping hands off the oil, Scotland hasn't managed that yet

"
so instead of england grasping it they would have scotland grasping it lol if we do gain independence all we have heard is so rich blah blah blah shetland isles sheer off on their own then where are we or not thought that far devo max was the best option taking it off the table was a very clever move by the union in my opinion

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".....

Basically a Yes vote is a vote for something that hasn't been decided yet. No one knows what the terms of seperation would be so a Yes voter doesn't actually know what they are voting for."

Or how much it's going to cost.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

".....

Basically a Yes vote is a vote for something that hasn't been decided yet. No one knows what the terms of seperation would be so a Yes voter doesn't actually know what they are voting for.

Or how much it's going to cost."

or in what currency!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I take everyone has heard the news released from the bank of England who are making plans in case of a YES vote

Danny Alexander is not a happy chap, now is that because of the bank of England or due to the fact that the whole of Scotland despises that man

As the Mark Carney has not told anyone what these plans are are we all sure they include Scotland as he will be representing and employed by the RUK to look after their financial priorities !!!!

should he be called a man? perhaps not"

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

The contingency plans are there to stop a run on the banks which would bankrupt Scotland even before independance.

An analyst from UDS was saying that investors might take fright after a yes vote and put their money into a stable currency like sterling rather than Wee Eck pounds.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"I think if you exclude people who have a strong attachment to an independent Scotland or a Scotland within the UK and look instead at those who are looking to be convinced either way then the SNP have a massive job to do.

This is pretty incredible. But not surprising.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think it was King Alexander of Scotland who, due to fear of losing his reign in future, took the new born baby of next in line's family and killed it.

We aint any better sometimes.

Which one? There were 3, the last one dying after falling from the

cliffs at Burntisland as he was trying to get to Kinghorn to his new young, second wife. The Wars of Independence were a direct result of his untimely death.

Theres enough religion to have wars just not enough religion to achive world peace.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

We should all welcome the statement, published on the Lawyers for Yes * website last month and written by its steering committee member Brandon Malone, that “the politico-legal reality is that the rest of the UK will be accepted as the continuing state”, that “it is therefore true to say that the public institutions of the UK would ?become the public institutions of the rUK” and that “the Bank of England is a UK body and the pound is the UK’s currency, and as ‘institutions’ of the UK they would stay with the UK”.

* Lawyers for Yes is an informal grouping of lawyers in Scotland who support a Yes vote on September 18th, as described in our declaration which was launched on 22 June. It is managed by a steering committee, made up of Joanna Cherry QC (convenor), James Aitken solicitor, Gail Gianni advocate, Robert Holland solicitor, Brandon Malone solicitor, and Jonathan Mitchell QC.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

erm...... if you are really going down the "slavery route" I think I'd be very careful.....

there is a reason why there are a lot of people with "scottish" surnames in the caribbean... and not for positive circumstances!!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Just as there are a lot of Scottish surnames associated with the drug trade in the Far East - firms like Jardine Mathieson.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The mere fact that Wee Eck got a doing off someone like Alistair Darling is because he hasn't thought it all through properly.

Council's hemorrhaging money due to budget allocations, barnet formula, renewable resources fir the future, a chance to govern our oan wee patch, exports like whiskey, salmon, alcohol, and not to mention oil. Your right. We should give it all to them to waste again.

All those people who vote yes genuinely don't know what they are voting for as the terms of seperation are to be negotiated AFTER the vote.

If you say a car advertised for £5,000 with no description, details or photograph would you buy it? If you wouldn't buy the car then why vote for something equally uncertain as independance.

Before all you start having a go at me I am Scottish, born in Glasgow, live in Glasgow,holiday in Scotland and eat the occasional haggis.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"erm...... if you are really going down the "slavery route" I think I'd be very careful.....

there is a reason why there are a lot of people with "scottish" surnames in the caribbean... and not for positive circumstances!!

hi Fabio, I know what you mean , my old mother in law from caribbean , and her name more Scottish than mine , mind you I don't know if it was slavery , or just some old randy preacher with the good book in one hand and someone else in the other

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

" The Bank of England has flatly denied claims from the Scottish government that the two have held talks on a currency union should Scotland vote for independence next month.

In a highly-unusual announcement, a spokesman said the Bank "has not entered discussions" with Holyrood on an independent Scotland remaining in the sterling monetary framework.

The Bank published the statement after Scotland's Finance Secretary John Swinney claimed that "technical discussions" had taken place between the two."

John Swinney, the SNP and Yes telling porkies.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Shock horror!! The yes campaign telling porkies. Who would have thought it possible? lol

At least they are saying something rather than the deadly silence from Wee Eck on currency union.

Would this be the same Mr Swinney who said that he would walk away from the Scottish share of the national debt if the negotions weren't to his liking. A very responsible position to take when viewed by the wider world

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"" The Bank of England has flatly denied claims from the Scottish government that the two have held talks on a currency union should Scotland vote for independence next month.

In a highly-unusual announcement, a spokesman said the Bank "has not entered discussions" with Holyrood on an independent Scotland remaining in the sterling monetary framework.

The Bank published the statement after Scotland's Finance Secretary John Swinney claimed that "technical discussions" had taken place between the two."

John Swinney, the SNP and Yes telling porkies."

mmmm swinney the man who was in charge when power was given to them , only to be removed by alex , who managed to drag his arse from the bookies in London , to take back over ,mr swinney has made a few gaffes , by letting us know the truth , albeit by mistake ,

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Folks, this is a struggle between the political elite in London - particularly the Westminster Scots - and the people of Scotland.

The incompetent London establishment, which serves its own interests and those of its backers in big business and the city of London, is dead set against reforming its ways. It is just not fit for purpose and, as an example of democracy, most deficient.

This is about changing the way we do politics and after a YES vote, everything will be up for discussion. The process has awakened our moribund democratic process and many of those coming out to cast their vote will remain engaged.

Why should Scotland be uniquely unable to arrange its own affairs for the benefit of its own people? Such fears just do not make any sense at all.

There are many small nations which are much more prosperous than UK, which has an absolutely massive debt burden - and growing by the minute.

Don't allow fear to overcome hope and reasoned expectation. Heart and mind, it has to be a vote for the opportunity of achieving something better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

mate , you are going to find that there are alot of folks on here that are soo damm desperate for Scotland to be run from london , either by posh davie and the cardboard box cleggie, possably boris and farrage , or the boy miliband . Scotland being free fills them with such loathing at the very though

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

You all live in one of the most free societies in the world. If we weren't then thousands of immigrants at Calais would not risk their lives trying to get here.

All this talk of freedom is just nonsense. Go to North Korea then you might have a point but hardly in Scotland.

As no one knows what the terms of seperation are going to be then all yessers don't actually know what they are voting for except "freedom"!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

freedom

for that alone

which no honest man gives up but with life itself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"mate , you are going to find that there are alot of folks on here that are soo damm desperate for Scotland to be run from london , either by posh davie and the cardboard box cleggie, possably boris and farrage , or the boy miliband . Scotland being free fills them with such loathing at the very though

seriously?

the thing about this is , we all have an opinion, and thanks to others this is a free choice we dont live in a police state , and although some see it this way we are not an oppressed nation , as in every vote it is YOUR choice to choose , many friendships and even family,s will be split over this vote , so please don't get so smug as to say oh there all feart , there is no one in this land so clever to tell us what will happen , its a choice ,a choice we all have the right to make if you dont agree , then fine , live with what is chosen ,

and I keep hearing , London , London English rule , we are making ourselves look so racist its disgusting ,

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

If only it were as simple as 'live with what is chosen'.

There's Cybernats aplenty who've made it clear they won't stop - even after they've been well beaten.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

for, as long as a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be subjected to the

lordship of the English. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for

freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" for, as long as a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be subjected to the

lordship of the English. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for

freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

again the English. soooo my friend you are going to take us into Europe hand in hand with alec , everyone from the world can come here and learn at our universities for free EXCEPT the English , nice one , thank god for the oil money , Brussels will be charging us a fortune for human rights cases cos we so fecking racist

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

" for, as long as a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be subjected to the

lordship of the English. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for

freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

It's a quote from the Declaration of Arbroath.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" for, as long as a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be subjected to the

lordship of the English. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for

freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

It's a quote from the Declaration of Arbroath.

I understand that ,but like every battle its in the past , this is the 21st century, we know the history , so to rake it back up is stupid , yes Wallace was a freedom fighter and bruce was our king , but how long ago , to rake up all this is a an offence to the men who fought in Scottish regiments in every war ,as I said before its a CHOICE a choice we are free to choose, so make your choice , and live with it ,

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"and I keep hearing , London , London English rule , we are making ourselves look so racist its disgusting"

Since when did the English or Londoners become a race?

You are choosing to miss the point. This is NOT an anti-English or anti-Londoner issue. It concerns a lack of proper democracy and seeks to address the dominance of the London establishment (including the Westminster Scots) upon our country.

The ordinary citizen here has more in common with a Londoner or person from anywhere in these isles, than with the self-interested career troughers who are supposed to represent us in the UK parliament.

The UK is one of the most unbalanced economies and unequal societies in the western world, a situation which is only getting worse. Perhaps you are happy with that.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

" for, as long as a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be subjected to the

lordship of the English. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for

freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

"
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.the world has moved on since that quote learn from it not live by it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""and I keep hearing , London , London English rule , we are making ourselves look so racist its disgusting"

Since when did the English or Londoners become a race?..

SINCE THIS STARTED

You are choosing to miss the point.

AND IM NOT , TRUST ME

This is NOT an anti-English or anti-Londoner issue. It concerns a lack of proper democracy and seeks to address the dominance of the London establishment (including the Westminster Scots) upon our country.

REALLY?

The UK is one of the most unbalanced economies and unequal societies in the western world, a situation which is only getting worse. Perhaps you are happy with that."

really, well I work with guys who have this opinion as do many yes voters , London is the most evil place in the world , now as a scots guy with an English mrs and a son who , depends on the vote might be english or Scottish , trouble is he cant play football .oh and we live in London ,where most Londoners , couldn't give a feck about whats happening ,

as for the troughers, well there is no one more than the man leading the way , ,trust me if this goes to a no vote , it will be lord salmond , of wherever ,

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"" The Bank of England has flatly denied claims from the Scottish government that the two have held talks on a currency union should Scotland vote for independence next month.

In a highly-unusual announcement, a spokesman said the Bank "has not entered discussions" with Holyrood on an independent Scotland remaining in the sterling monetary framework.

The Bank published the statement after Scotland's Finance Secretary John Swinney claimed that "technical discussions" had taken place between the two."

John Swinney, the SNP and Yes telling porkies.

Swinney by name and swindle by nature.

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

[Removed by poster at 15/08/14 02:46:18]

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Party politics is the enemy of true democracy.

Discuss.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The New North Sea Boom-time

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/clair-ridge-and-scotlands-new-oil-boom/

this is just one of many

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

William Adamson (1863-1936): Politician, Secretary of State for Scotland (Labour)

We believe that government policy is to subordinate Scottish administration to Whitehall to a far greater extent than has ever been the case and to remove from Scotland practically the last vestige of independent government and nationhood and to have its centre in London.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham (3nts)

We must not forget that a previous leader of the SNP, Arthur Donaldson, was arrested and interned during the War for being a Nazi sympathiser. Another, Douglas Young, was also accused of pro-Nazi tendencies and was also imprisoned during the War for refusing to be conscripted.

Young once wrote to a friend: “If Hitler could neatly remove our imperial breeks somehow and thus dissipate the mirage of Imperial partnership with England etc he would do a great service to Scottish Nationalism."

- Fascist Scotland, Gavin Bowd.

The 79 Group was a faction within theScottish National Party (SNP), named after its year of formation, 1979. The group sought to persuade the SNP to take an active left-wing stance, arguing that it would win more support, and were highly critical of the established SNP leaders. Although it had a tiny membership, the group caused sufficient disquiet that it was expelled from the SNP in 1982, although its members were subsequently readmitted and many attained senior positions in the Scottish Governmentafter 2007; First Minister Alex Salmond was a leading member of the group.

Single state police force, armed cops on the streets. Intrusive legislation into family lives.

Hmm.

I see the latest Nat ploy, "If you don't vote yes, there will be reprisals"

Fear the English, they come to rape and pillage.

Fear the SNP if there's a no vote, there will be punishment.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

Sorry, good friend of mine Geoff, wrote a book all about it, "Death of a King"."

If your friend is Geoff Huijer, his book is fictional based on the circumstances of Alexander III'S death. I will be ordering a copy as it looks like a good historical mystery story.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"The New North Sea Boom-time

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/clair-ridge-and-scotlands-new-oil-boom/

this is just one of many"

Business for Scotland is no more than a front for Nat propaganda.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Still far too many conflicting stories and for to make such a monumental decision

I'm still on the undecided bench I'm afraid ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry, good friend of mine Geoff, wrote a book all about it, "Death of a King".

If your friend is Geoff Huijer, his book is fictional based on the circumstances of Alexander III'S death. I will be ordering a copy as it looks like a good historical

mystery story."
cool,, we both grew up same area. Passing the monument where the king fell on a daily basis.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 15/08/14 12:53:05]

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

" for, as long as a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be subjected to the

lordship of the English. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for

freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.the world has moved on since that quote learn from it not live by it "

that quote was very valid when it was pronounced as Scotland was under the heel of the english who had a brutal rule. That was 700

years ago so not exactly relevant to today's vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

John reid , baron of cardowan, the lad that screwed almost £4000 out of the taxpayer to watch football, is on the case to keep us well and truly under westminsters boot heal.l fear we are doomed

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"John reid , baron of cardowan, the lad that screwed almost £4000 out of the taxpayer to watch football, is on the case to keep us well and truly under westminsters boot heal.l fear we are doomed"

Whilst Eck spent £468,000 watching the golf.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"John reid , baron of cardowan, the lad that screwed almost £4000 out of the taxpayer to watch football, is on the case to keep us well and truly under westminsters boot heal.l fear we are doomed

Whilst Eck spent £468,000 watching the golf."

and don't forget the money un accounted for from the wee trip to America, £40 or £50k ??

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"John reid , baron of cardowan, the lad that screwed almost £4000 out of the taxpayer to watch football, is on the case to keep us well and truly under westminsters boot heal.l fear we are doomed

Whilst Eck spent £468,000 watching the golf.

and don't forget the money un accounted for from the wee trip to America, £40 or £50k ??

I'd assumed that went on pies.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

all politicians have their noses in the trough no matter what party they belong to. Look at Blair, now got more money and houses that any of us here will see in a lifetime.

This isn't about dodgy policians, most of whom should be behind bars, but about the fundamentals of our society.

All this nonsense about freedom, ruled from London when Brussels is the worst culprit, anti English sentiment and all the excesses of the Yes campaign.

I am Scottish by birth and by voting No I will still be Scottish no matter what anyone says.

A yes vote is a vote for a step into darkness. A yes voter does not know what he/she is actually voting for as there have not been any negotiations yet.

Not even Wee Eck knows what will happen. He might have a white paper but that is only a wish list and conjecture with no hard and fast facts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Brussels? Mine enemy's enemy is a problem for another day. Come the yes vote, no more rule from london, all other problems can be solved given time.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

How is it rule from London as the Scottish parliament makes all the big laws up here?

I think that defence and foreign policy as well as social security are Westminster based.

If you have complaints about NHS, local services, Police, etc then speak to wee eck as he is the one in charge of them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wont be online much until after the vote

whilst you are all sitting at pc's debating and going round in circles, I will be out mailing leaflets and doing all I can face to face to persuade people to vote YES

if you are still unconvinced, open your eyes, research and also research the "source" of the research as there are 100's of biased reports, especially the BBC

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Brussels? Mine enemy's enemy is a problem for another day. Come the yes vote, no more rule from london, all other problems can be solved given time. "

There you go, eh. No plans beyond the Sept vote.

Trust Eck and everything will be fine? No ****ing chance!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Union anger at Salmond as Scotland's last commercial shipyard goes under.

Scotland's last commercial shipbuilder, Ferguson's on the Clyde, has gone into receivership with the loss of around 80 jobs.

The GMB union said workers were told they were being made redundant with immediate effect when they turned up for work this morning at the yard in Port Glasgow, Inverclyde. Only seven workers will be retained as a skeleton staff while the receivers try to find a buyer.

The announcement provoked a powerful attack from a senior union official against the First Minister,

Jim Moohan, chairman of the Confederation of Shipbuilding & Engineering Unions (CSEU) in Scotland and GMB Scotland senior organiser, said that there had been concerns for some time about the amount of work on the yard's books and that more should have been done to safeguard the yard's future.

He said: "This is the end of commercial shipbuilding in Scotland. The yard has struggled for work for a number of years now and the Scottish government gave us an assurance that the work would be there and the yard would survive.

"There was a personal commitment from the First Minister that the workforce would be protected and that work would remain. This is a scandal and Alex Salmond should deliver a personal apology to each and every one of these men today."

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/u/new-clyde-gloom-as-ferguson-shipyard-goes-into-receivership.1408096779

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"I wont be online much until after the vote

whilst you are all sitting at pc's debating and going round in circles, I will be out mailing leaflets and doing all I can face to face to persuade people to vote YES

if you are still unconvinced, open your eyes, research and also research the "source" of the research as there are 100's of biased reports, especially the BBC"

Okay, you've previously held up the success of the science sector in Scotland as a reason for indpendence. If we ignore the BBC can you provide some other research from those in the sector who believe it would be better off in an independent Scotland?

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Don't be daft,lins1975, you really can't expect them to be able to have credible facts and have a plan. That's not what it's all about.

All you have to do is vote yes and wee eck will make the world a better place.

I think that sums up the yes campaign nicely or have I missed something put?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Union anger at Salmond as Scotland's last commercial shipyard goes under.

Scotland's last commercial shipbuilder, Ferguson's on the Clyde, has gone into receivership with the loss of around 80 jobs.

The announcement provoked a powerful attack from a senior union official against the First Minister,

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/u/new-clyde-gloom-as-ferguson-shipyard-goes-into-receivership.1408096779"

alec only appears at good news days,trust me if 8 jobs had been created instead of 80 lost he would be there

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"William Adamson (1863-1936): Politician, Secretary of State for Scotland (Labour)

That's the labour party for you.

The snake never changes its colours, although it often sheds its original values.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The noblest prospect which a Scotman ever sees, is the high road that leads him to England

Samuel Johnson

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Has anyone from the yes camp actually got any current facts rather than drag up old stories sometimes from hundreds of years ago?

Try thinking of the current issues rather than all the nonsense about "freedom" and being professional "victims".

This is a free country with values envied throughout the world.

Wee eck wants a currency union. We already have one!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fuckin failures in a country of failures. Its nae good blamin it oan the English fir colonising us. Ah don't hate the English. They're just wankers. We are colonised by wankers. We can't even pick a decent, vibrant healthy society to be colonised by. No..we are ruled by effete arseholes. What does that make us? The lowest of the low, the scum of the earth. The most wretched servile, miserable, pathetic trash that was ever shat intae creation. Ah don't hate the English. They just git oan wis the shite thev got. Ah hate the Scots.”

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