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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I see Jamaica celebrated independence from england yesterday , maybe one day Scotland can also celebrate being free and independant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Only if your opinion is that we are being occupied by a forgien force rather than electing our own mps to represent us in Westminster.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Only if your opinion is that we are being occupied by a forgien force rather than electing our own mps to represent us in Westminster.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

not too sure i have ever voted tory , yet posh davie holds the whip hand over Scotland , with only 1 elected member of there corrupt parliment here in Scotland

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield

I'm just curious, when these topics are discussed I never see mention of Gordon Brown, Alastair Darling etc etc. why is that?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Gordon broon? Best joke never to have been elected as prime minister of the english parliament, I laughed my tits off when he sold off all their gold at rock bottom prices

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield


"Gordon broon? Best joke never to have been elected as prime minister of the english parliament, I laughed my tits off when he sold off all their gold at rock bottom prices "

I see. I'm not quite sure that my question was answered, however, the reply does say an enormous amount. I will leave it there and thank you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm just curious, when these topics are discussed I never see mention of Gordon Brown, Alastair Darling etc etc. why is that?"

They both are not fans of independance, why would they feature on this ?

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield


"I'm just curious, when these topics are discussed I never see mention of Gordon Brown, Alastair Darling etc etc. why is that?

They both are not fans of independance, why would they feature on this ? "

I keep reading how Scotland is dictated too and controlled by the English, I wondered how Brown, Darling, Blair, etc etc (all scots) fitted in to that theory. They were all labour mps, Scotland voted labour, they ran the uk . I wondered why all these very high profile scots, who ran the uk, are seemingly airbrushed out whilst saying that the English dictate. I would like that explaining.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im certainly not saying it, not a fan of independant idea.

Quite a fan of the straigtforward solution, that if you dont like tory policy, next election you vote Labour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They don't. However having said that i would argue that they are hardly representative of Scots . I see them in much the same way as billy connolly or sean connery , kid on scots who are hardly in the country harking on about how scottish they are and shite that isnt relevant to anything important and yet dont find that very country good enough to live in . I'm still undecided even after that so called "debate" , have seen kids in a playground making more sense . I think the "dictated" and "controlled" part comes from the history of how the union came about , the resentment and disrespect that has been shown through the years to scots , for example the banning of tartan , bagpipes , the breaking up of clans , even today somehow our notes arent good enough down south ? wasnt that long ago that english MP's were kicking up about scots making decisions on english affairs , seemed very much to me that it was ok for the past few hundred years for the English to be deciding things but when the boot was on the other foot suddenly there was an issue ?? All this to me undermines the union which meant to be four equal countries and honestly at the minute i dont see that . I think the rest of the UK is treated as almost second class and until that is addressed there will always be talk of resentment . The fact we arent asked about anything such as nuclear weapons or tax , that we have them imposed on us is indicative of a westminster that pays lip service at best to anyone outside of what they perceive as gods country .

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By *ancythat100Man
over a year ago

lanark/carluke

I'm a little confused here. People say we don't get the government that we vote for in Scotland but i voted tories.if we go independent then can i guarantee that ill get who i want??? Same thing really. Understand folks thinking about independence but now we have the fastest growing economy in the world! To risk that on ideas that still have to be negotiated is crazy thinking to me!!! Each to their own though

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield


"They don't. However having said that i would argue that they are hardly representative of Scots . I see them in much the same way as billy connolly or sean connery , kid on scots who are hardly in the country harking on about how scottish they are and shite that isnt relevant to anything important and yet dont find that very country good enough to live in . I'm still undecided even after that so called "debate" , have seen kids in a playground making more sense . I think the "dictated" and "controlled" part comes from the history of how the union came about , the resentment and disrespect that has been shown through the years to scots , for example the banning of tartan , bagpipes , the breaking up of clans , even today somehow our notes arent good enough down south ? wasnt that long ago that english MP's were kicking up about scots making decisions on english affairs , seemed very much to me that it was ok for the past few hundred years for the English to be deciding things but when the boot was on the other foot suddenly there was an issue ?? All this to me undermines the union which meant to be four equal countries and honestly at the minute i dont see that . I think the rest of the UK is treated as almost second class and until that is addressed there will always be talk of resentment . The fact we arent asked about anything such as nuclear weapons or tax , that we have them imposed on us is indicative of a westminster that pays lip service at best to anyone outside of what they perceive as gods country . "

I really am very stupid and even more confused now!

Are you now saying that these elected scots are not representative of scots? If so, how will the scots ensure that any future elected scots will be representative of scots?

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By *owboy BebopMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

The problem, with that Aston is that Tories and labour are virtually indistinguishable . Also both parties are only interested in what's good for London & Middle England

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The most important decision we will ever have,i prey my fellow countrymen and woman see behond voting for salmond,we are votingfor the future and for scotlanf for the kids and the grand kids we have the chance to battle and be free of a corrupt goverment that holds no future for us,,, we need to rid our country of their devastating weapons and be free ..be scottish...british by birth maybe but scottish by the grace of god,,,we arent perfec. But being scottish comes close

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They don't. However having said that i would argue that they are hardly representative of Scots . I see them in much the same way as billy connolly or sean connery , kid on scots who are hardly in the country harking on about how scottish they are and shite that isnt relevant to anything important and yet dont find that very country good enough to live in . I'm still undecided even after that so called "debate" , have seen kids in a playground making more sense . I think the "dictated" and "controlled" part comes from the history of how the union came about , the resentment and disrespect that has been shown through the years to scots , for example the banning of tartan , bagpipes , the breaking up of clans , even today somehow our notes arent good enough down south ? wasnt that long ago that english MP's were kicking up about scots making decisions on english affairs , seemed very much to me that it was ok for the past few hundred years for the English to be deciding things but when the boot was on the other foot suddenly there was an issue ?? All this to me undermines the union which meant to be four equal countries and honestly at the minute i dont see that . I think the rest of the UK is treated as almost second class and until that is addressed there will always be talk of resentment . The fact we arent asked about anything such as nuclear weapons or tax , that we have them imposed on us is indicative of a westminster that pays lip service at best to anyone outside of what they perceive as gods country .

I really am very stupid and even more confused now!

Are you now saying that these elected scots are not representative of scots? If so, how will the scots ensure that any future elected scots will be representative of scots?"
this is brilliant a true person who sees it as it is our hearts are naturally passionate we will do what is in our hearts at the right time,personally i decided many years my choice way way before it all started witg salmond and darling ...our country is amazing let your heart be free

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The most important decision we will ever have,i prey my fellow countrymen and woman see behond voting for salmond,we are votingfor the future and for scotlanf for the kids and the grand kids we have the chance to battle and be free of a corrupt goverment that holds no future for us,,, we need to rid our country of their devastating weapons and be free ..be scottish...british by birth maybe but scottish by the grace of god,,,we arent perfec. But being scottish comes close "
Ahh right, free? Wat free as in independant, like Greece or southern ireland or iceland?

All bailed out when being independant didnae really help matters to be fair,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We gotta be allowed to make out own decisions and mistakes,its a personal vote everyone feels different..its not an argument id like to get into ..we do need to really think about it though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, we do, as for giving it a try, there is no get out clause, no wee trial run, if you choose it, you are stuck with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The problem, with that Aston is that Tories and labour are virtually indistinguishable . Also both parties are only interested in what's good for London & Middle England "

Labour as a party of the working class ceased to be the day the late, great John Smith died. Quite simply the greatest Prime Minister this country never had!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The problem, with that Aston is that Tories and labour are virtually indistinguishable . Also both parties are only interested in what's good for London & Middle England

Labour as a party of the working class ceased to be the day the late, great John Smith died. Quite simply the greatest Prime Minister this country never had! "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I see Jamaica celebrated independence from england yesterday , maybe one day Scotland can also celebrate being free and independant"
Only when Scotland are ready and we are far from ready.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

was in Iceland not that long ago , couple of months , they seem to be doing rather well for themselves.

Alister darling ? representitive ?

born in london england - not a good start. Irn broon made him chancellor of the exchequer- anybody remember the northen rock fiasco and sub prime mortguages ? on his watch - oops

remember the child benifit scandal ?on his watch , again double oops

remember his expenses scandal ? caught changing the designation of his second home 4 times in 4 years so he could screw heeps of cash out of us to by a nice big flat and furnish it in the country of his political masters , london . oops again

got caught slipping in a nice dodgy £700 reciept for bugger all , more oops ?

had to resign from some advocates lunch club because his financial affairs were under investigation.

is this really a man who is representitive of the avereage Scot ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've wondered something for a while now...I keep hearing phrases like 'corrupt tory ministers', 'downtrodden scots' 'repressive english government' blah blah blah. Can anyone here honestly say that, on a day to day basis, they've felt repressed because of the government in Westminster? Specifically because it's in Westminster, not just because your benefits have been stopped or anything like that.

Also, does anyone trust the MSP's to do the right thing any more than they do the MP's?

Guess I'm playing devils advocate a bit here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"was in Iceland not that long ago , couple of months , they seem to be doing rather well for themselves.

Alister darling ? representitive ?

born in london england - not a good start. Irn broon made him chancellor of the exchequer- anybody remember the northen rock fiasco and sub prime mortguages ? on his watch - oops

remember the child benifit scandal ?on his watch , again double oops

remember his expenses scandal ? caught changing the designation of his second home 4 times in 4 years so he could screw heeps of cash out of us to by a nice big flat and furnish it in the country of his political masters , london . oops again

got caught slipping in a nice dodgy £700 reciept for bugger all , more oops ?

had to resign from some advocates lunch club because his financial affairs were under investigation.

is this really a man who is representitive of the avereage Scot ? "
Icelandic banks collapsed also and south Lanarkshire council lost 17 million from the pension fund.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if you watched the opening ceremony of the games they wanted to raise funds for the poor of the small independent countries of the commonwealth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes, we do, as for giving it a try, there is no get out clause, no wee trial run, if you choose it, you are stuck with it."
very true i agree theres no going back ,but ask yourself are we the type of people who are doers or are we happy with keeping quiet ..not in our nature is it

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

all the common wealth really is is a collection of countrys that used to be part of the english empire , no wonder they are poor , empire involves going to somebodys country , taking it off them , killing as many of there folks as you feel like and stealing everything of worth

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely the head will rule the heart, and it will be a No vote. But part of me wants to see an independent Scotland have to introduce the Scottish Schilling instead of the British Pound, while it applies for the Euro, assuming it is elligible as a member of the EU?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The problem, with that Aston is that Tories and labour are virtually indistinguishable . Also both parties are only interested in what's good for London & Middle England

Labour as a party of the working class ceased to be the day the late, great John Smith died. Quite simply the greatest Prime Minister this country never had! "
hear hear..love that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've wondered something for a while now...I keep hearing phrases like 'corrupt tory ministers', 'downtrodden scots' 'repressive english government' blah blah blah. Can anyone here honestly say that, on a day to day basis, they've felt repressed because of the government in Westminster? Specifically because it's in Westminster, not just because your benefits have been stopped or anything like that. Ok i see that and dont feel repressed but how many policies and taxes did the goverments in london try on scots first ? I call it dodgy

Also, does anyone trust the MSP's to do the right thing any more than they do the MP's?

Guess I'm playing devils advocate a bit here "

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield


"was in Iceland not that long ago , couple of months , they seem to be doing rather well for themselves.

Alister darling ? representitive ?

born in london england - not a good start. Irn broon made him chancellor of the exchequer- anybody remember the northen rock fiasco and sub prime mortguages ? on his watch - oops

remember the child benifit scandal ?on his watch , again double oops

remember his expenses scandal ? caught changing the designation of his second home 4 times in 4 years so he could screw heeps of cash out of us to by a nice big flat and furnish it in the country of his political masters , london . oops again

got caught slipping in a nice dodgy £700 reciept for bugger all , more oops ?

had to resign from some advocates lunch club because his financial affairs were under investigation.

is this really a man who is representitive of the avereage Scot ? "

So are you also voting on who is and who isn't Scottish now? That little rant seems a little self defeating to me! I'm even more confused!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Surely the head will rule the heart, and it will be a No vote. But part of me wants to see an independent Scotland have to introduce the Scottish Schilling instead of the British Pound, while it applies for the Euro, assuming it is elligible as a member of the EU? "
history will show you that the pound was scottish first my friend ,,,id like to see us get the quid lol

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

People here and elsewhere are talking about 'independence' but its hardly independence when Eck insists we keep the Monarchy and a currency controlled by the central bank of a foreign currency.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Heart over head my friend

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

its a mystery why alec wants to keep the english monarchy , nobody i know wants them , why on earth would any sane person want to fork out cash to keep the current incumbents of the house of saxe coburg gothe in luxuary . let england keep them , they are well suited for each other .

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"its a mystery why alec wants to keep the english monarchy , nobody i know wants them , why on earth would any sane person want to fork out cash to keep the current incumbents of the house of saxe coburg gothe in luxuary . let england keep them , they are well suited for each other . "

Like you, I don't understand WHY people want to keep the Monarchy but they do.

That's why Eck has run scared of getting rid of it. Much the same applies to Sterling.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

All the talk about not getting to keep the english pound is bolloxs, who wants their tawdry bits of paper .eck should tell that corrupt london born chappie darling to take the stuff back south to his Lords and masters , he might be able to trouser enough of it to buy yet another flat to add to his growing portfolio of property acquired by dodgy means lol.

How many trillions of debt stands behind the mighty english pound? Lol

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Debt as such isn't really a problem. It only becomes a problem if you can't make the payments or, as would be the case in Scotland, if you have no track record of borrowing and timely repayment.

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By *addie bunnetMan
over a year ago

glasgow

[Removed by poster at 08/08/14 01:44:26]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lmao at this really.....I'm scottish born and bred and proud to be Scottish but also proud to be British. A nation my forefathers fought and died for. We're not oppressed by Westminster. ..jesus....some people have no fecking idea what oppressed really means. Its certainly not the bedroom tax ffs. If scotland votes yes the economy will tank without a currency union..eck can bluster all he wants but if there is no currency union and he walks away from the debt he not only fecks everyone of us financially for generations he also does not get any of the assets...so no army airforce or navy for starters. That will cost a fair penny. Oil will not save us either. Its a fools game..UKOK....

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Why would Scotland need the cost of an army, navy, airforce, marines, special forces? Who are we planning to invade? Who would want to invade us? england ? Possably ,if the yanks told them to and they managed to create a nice dodgy dossier, not the first time Scotland has been invaded by england and they also have form on dodgy dossiers as well.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside


"Why would Scotland need the cost of an army, navy, air force, marines, special forces? Who are we planning to invade? Who would want to invade us? England ? Possibly ,if the yanks told them to and they managed to create a nice dodgy dossier, not the first time Scotland has been invaded by England and they also have form on dodgy dossiers as well. "

Why would an independent country need a defence force - Is that really a serious question?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Absolutely a serious question ,as yet nobody has said what size and composition and type of forces Scotland would want to pay for. Do you have that answer?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I was back up in Iceland a few months ago, just remembered that they don't have a standing army, if you read the global peace index Iceland is the most peaceful country in the world ,surely an aspiration for a free Scotland

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside


"Absolutely a serious question ,as yet nobody has said what size and composition and type of forces Scotland would want to pay for. Do you have that answer? "

You already know the answer but as you seem to have another agenda, even to that of the Yes Campaigners, I'll leave you to debate that with yourself!

PS - If you don't know the answer then ask the SNP why they say we would need a defence force.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not taking sides with anyone but to be a member of Nato you need to have a certain number of troops

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield


"Why would Scotland need the cost of an army, navy, airforce, marines, special forces? Who are we planning to invade? Who would want to invade us? england ? Possably ,if the yanks told them to and they managed to create a nice dodgy dossier, not the first time Scotland has been invaded by england and they also have form on dodgy dossiers as well. "

This is all really bewildering. I believe it was a Scotsman who was responsible for promoting the " dodgy dossier" and taking us into that particular war.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

A nice idea that if you want into NATO you have to have troops, but not the case in reality

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"A nice idea that if you want into NATO you have to have troops, but not the case in reality "

NATO is about mutual defence. You can't do much mutual defending with a couple of fishery protection vessels and a Sopwith Camel.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Do you remember any of the cod war's? When the might of the english navy, backed up by nuclear weapons, boldly sailed into action against a few trawlers? Didn't end too well for London

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ahh right, free? Wat free as in independant, like Greece or southern ireland or iceland?

"

No; FREE like as in USA; CANADA or even MALTA

and due to the oil; far much richer than all 3

and before you reply ensure you can back up any comments

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Funny thing about mutual defence agreements, Iceland a NATO member gets embroiled in the 3 cod war's with? Yup, the uk ,a NATO member, mutual protection like that most folks could do with out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What voting no will mean for scotland,no ambition no belief no credebility no prosperity no courage no democracy no hope and no future,it will be telling any westminister goverment that they can keep treating us as 2nd class citizens .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've wondered something for a while now...I keep hearing phrases like 'corrupt tory ministers', 'downtrodden scots' 'repressive english government' blah blah blah. Can anyone here honestly say that, on a day to day basis, they've felt repressed because of the government in Westminster? Specifically because it's in Westminster, not just because your benefits have been stopped or anything like that.

Also, does anyone trust the MSP's to do the right thing any more than they do the MP's?

Guess I'm playing devils advocate a bit here "

Yeah i reckon i have had that in my life .i lived in govan and can honestly say that it seemed to me the shipyards were held over the people like a carrot . It was very much a case of behave and we will give you the work . As for MSP's , yeah as much as anyone can trust a politician i truat them more than MP'S because unlike the MP's they at least stay in this country and seem to have a much better understanding of local issues , MP's to me it seems come up for s short while so we dont forget about them then swan back down south and make sure they get in their claims on time .Also someone mentioned something about an English empire ?? im sorry but if we are seriously thinking about independence that involves taking responsibility for our actions both past and present . Wasn't just the english we played our part too , i.e Al-Megrahi etc etc .As for the pound , yes a scottish idea again , much the same as modern economic models which were created by a scot and London does very well out of it , all this talk of we cant use the pound is utter garbage and yet another example of arrogance from down south , I agree with the sentiment of its as much ours as theirs . You mention downtrodden etc etc when all you hear is what you cant do it does start to feel that way . ill accept whatever the result is , my main worry is what happens after ? It seems to me that at he moment its all nicey nicey but what happens in the event of a no vote ? we are in their back pockets and are going to be getting screwed yet again for generations to come , thats my fear .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What voting no will mean for scotland,no ambition no belief no credebility no prosperity no courage no democracy no hope and no future,it will be telling any westminister goverment that they can keep treating us as 2nd class citizens ."
Lived in scotland for 30 yrs and london for 18yrs never treated any diffrently in either country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/08/14 11:33:06]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was hoping someone would mention the scare mongering tactics of the no campaign when they say Scotland is running out of oil.

No one has mentioned the Clair Ridge project where BP, Shell, Chevron & Total have discovered one of the "Worlds" largest oil finds. Total has started building a complete new gas refinery to handle the gas side. Phase 1 & 2 are under development.

My mate works on phase 3, he has just been told he will be on stand-by until October (on full wages) as the oil company in question has made a deal with Westminster that no mention of the phase 3 find will be broadcast and announced until after the Independence vote. He is being paid £1000 a week to sit at home, wish I got into this project.

The reservoirs are one of the worlds largest and will hopefully wipe out a lot of UK dept. If a YES vote for Independence it will make Scotland a very rich nation

regardless of the outcome, phase 3 will go ahead and will give employment to thousands.

Phase 1&2 have already kicked off and due to come online 2015/2016 and estimated to be over 4 decades of oil & gas from phase 1 & 2 alone taking us into and beyond 2050, good news for us and good news for our kids, get your young ones into oil & gas

bad news for the green party.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was brought up to believe there are four countries in this union not just the two so what we really mean is stuff the people of Northern Ireland and Wales because we might be O.K. don't think so it's a great big NAW! NAW! NAW! from me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was brought up to believe there are four countries in this union not just the two so what we really mean is stuff the people of Northern Ireland and Wales because we might be O.K. don't think so it's a great big NAW! NAW! NAW! from me.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The acts of union - 2 of them , Union with Scotland act , passed by english parliment 1706.Union with england act passed by Scots parliment 1707 . both acts came into affect may 1st 1707. Ireland was not included in the act of union , being still legally subordinated to england and didn't become part of the union until 1801 . wales ? doesn't figure in any way shape or form in the acts of union in 1706/1707.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Countries fight wars for Independence sadly many scots don't have the bottle to even tick a box for it

nothing is gained without risk and Scotland has so much to gain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I was hoping someone would mention the scare mongering tactics of the no campaign when they say Scotland is running out of oil.

No one has mentioned the Clair Ridge project where BP, Shell, Chevron & Total have discovered one of the "Worlds" largest oil finds. Total has started building a complete new gas refinery to handle the gas side. Phase 1 & 2 are under development.

My mate works on phase 3, he has just been told he will be on stand-by until October (on full wages) as the oil company in question has made a deal with Westminster that no mention of the phase 3 find will be broadcast and announced until after the Independence vote. He is being paid £1000 a week to sit at home, wish I got into this project.

The reservoirs are one of the worlds largest and will hopefully wipe out a lot of UK dept. If a YES vote for Independence it will make Scotland a very rich nation

regardless of the outcome, phase 3 will go ahead and will give employment to thousands.

Phase 1&2 have already kicked off and due to come online 2015/2016 and estimated to be over 4 decades of oil & gas from phase 1 & 2 alone taking us into and beyond 2050, good news for us and good news for our kids, get your young ones into oil & gas

bad news for the green party."

and while cameron was in shetland talking to oil execs osborne announced better tax rates for offshore drilling and special tax reduction for basement play ,coincedence or a bribe? to keep it quiet till after the election,no wonder they r desperate for us to vote no.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

if this was a referendum to cease being a free self determining country and become part of north engerlundshire then there is a few conditions we the people of Scotland would have to accept.

having a paper tiger parliment here in Scotland for us to play with while the main decisions will be taken in the far south of another country for us .

We will have to accept decisions being made for us by a cabal of public schoolboys from the tory party - posh davie and his acolytes in conjunction with cleggie the cardboard cutout.

in the event labour ever becomes electable again then we have the prospect of the boy miliband making decisions for us .

We will need to agree to have europes biggest dump of weapons of mass destruction just a few miles from our most populous areas .

agree to get saddled with god knows how many trillions of debt.

dragged into as many illigal wars as the south can create dossiers for.

send all monies generated through tax , trade ect south , they might even let us have some of it back .

give up all rights to natural resources , both on shore and off.

get saddled with a bargin basement minor german royal family which we would have to start paying for.

whats not to like , folks would be queuing round the block to sighn up for that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm a little confused here. People say we don't get the government that we vote for in Scotland but i voted tories.if we go independent then can i guarantee that ill get who i want??? Same thing really. Understand folks thinking about independence but now we have the fastest growing economy in the world! To risk that on ideas that still have to be negotiated is crazy thinking to me!!! Each to their own though "

This fast going economy is built on house prices and the city banks we are going round in circles and it will fail again the bankers still go unpunished for there lies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The problem, with that Aston is that Tories and labour are virtually indistinguishable . Also both parties are only interested in what's good for London & Middle England "

Even northern areas of England are disillusioned Westminster are only interested in the city (bank)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well I have the vote and fact is, it will be YES

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've wondered something for a while now...I keep hearing phrases like 'corrupt tory ministers', 'downtrodden scots' 'repressive english government' blah blah blah. Can anyone here honestly say that, on a day to day basis, they've felt repressed because of the government in Westminster? Specifically because it's in Westminster, not just because your benefits have been stopped or anything like that.

Also, does anyone trust the MSP's to do the right thing any more than they do the MP's?

Guess I'm playing devils advocate a bit here "

Not been on benefits in about twenty years but yes my wage has gone backwards for a number of years now and my workers rights are being eroded to many zero hours contracts and now if you are unfairly sacked to need to pay £1000 just to start a case against employers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Surely the head will rule the heart, and it will be a No vote. But part of me wants to see an independent Scotland have to introduce the Scottish Schilling instead of the British Pound, while it applies for the Euro, assuming it is elligible as a member of the EU? "

Look at it another way would you vote to join this union ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

seems there are plenty scare mongering no voters on this forum too

roll on the 24th March 2016; the date of Independence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Absolutely a serious question ,as yet nobody has said what size and composition and type of forces Scotland would want to pay for. Do you have that answer? "

We would need forces to protect oil fields fishery grounds for a start

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ok for the people. Sitting. On the fence

7 or 8 years ago when. Scotland. Started to cobble to gather a plan for bidding. For the commonwealth. Games, there. We're serious. Doubts in peoples minds as to whether. We would. Get it.

Then afew that even more doubted we could pull it off ( a step too far for Scotland. The headlines. Read)

Now it's reported. That it was one of the most successful. Games in modern. Time.

Please. Do not underestimate. This countrys fight. And desire to pull through. When the scaremongers. And doubters. Are shouting. There retric

A leap. Of faith in many. Respects yes

But look at the possibilitys ahead.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Shell is cutting 250 North Sea oil jobs.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

To all dont listen to the we are such a strong nation nonsense or listen to the we need the union ......go find the FACTS and make an informed choice so many will fill your head with stats and figures and if this happens that happens make your choice and steer clear of others slants

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We are a strong. Nation tho were is the slant there?????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Shell is cutting 250 North Sea oil jobs."

Chevron are cutting 250 jobs too; but fact is, Shell, Total, BP & Chevron have one of the worlds largest finds which will be announced in October

this is the Claire Ridge phase III

Claire ridge phase I & II will see oil & gas right through and past 2050 and it comes online 2015/2016 and that is nothing to Clair Ridge phase3

.

All oil companies cut jobs, fact is, shell are cutting some jobs right now and also recruiting in other areas of north sea, so is Chevron that's nothing new so stop scare mongering

.

especially when it comes to North sea Oil & Gas as that is my area of expertise

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Shell is cutting 250 North Sea oil jobs.

Chevron are cutting 250 jobs too; but fact is, Shell, Total, BP & Chevron have one of the worlds largest finds which will be announced in October

this is the Claire Ridge phase III

Claire ridge phase I & II will see oil & gas right through and past 2050 and it comes online 2015/2016 and that is nothing to Clair Ridge phase3

.

All oil companies cut jobs, fact is, shell are cutting some jobs right now and also recruiting in other areas of north sea, so is Chevron that's nothing new so stop scare mongering

.

especially when it comes to North sea Oil & Gas as that is my area of expertise"
Thanx for that I believe. They were facts and not slants hallelujah

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"Shell is cutting 250 North Sea oil jobs.

Chevron are cutting 250 jobs too; but fact is, Shell, Total, BP & Chevron have one of the worlds largest finds which will be announced in October

this is the Claire Ridge phase III

Claire ridge phase I & II will see oil & gas right through and past 2050 and it comes online 2015/2016 and that is nothing to Clair Ridge phase3

.

All oil companies cut jobs, fact is, shell are cutting some jobs right now and also recruiting in other areas of north sea, so is Chevron that's nothing new so stop scare mongering

.

especially when it comes to North sea Oil & Gas as that is my area of expertiseThanx for that I believe. They were facts and not slants hallelujah "
pmsl get a grip ....... wee huff as not everyone buys your wondeeful truths heres a truth all these companys dont give a sh** whether scotland is independant or not all they want is profit and will say whatever is needed at the time go and check independant studys on scotlands portion of the north sea shelf makes for very diffrent reading as usual completlt missed the point folk need to make their own decisions not liaten to folk on a swingers sites ramblings

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Shell is cutting 250 North Sea oil jobs.

Chevron are cutting 250 jobs too; but fact is, Shell, Total, BP & Chevron have one of the worlds largest finds which will be announced in October

this is the Claire Ridge phase III

Claire ridge phase I & II will see oil & gas right through and past 2050 and it comes online 2015/2016 and that is nothing to Clair Ridge phase3

.

All oil companies cut jobs, fact is, shell are cutting some jobs right now and also recruiting in other areas of north sea, so is Chevron that's nothing new so stop scare mongering

.

especially when it comes to North sea Oil & Gas as that is my area of expertise"

"will be announced in October". How convenient.

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By *lba The ScotMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

My experience of Independence is a very positive one. I got divorced 8 years ago, and its been great ever since.

Oh...she had this daft idea that the money was hers also!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


" ... folk need to make their own decisions not liaten to folk on a swingers sites ramblings "

As opposed to the ramblings of Eck at a lectern in the RSAMD.

"Aliens" "other side of the road" WTF?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" ... folk need to make their own decisions not liaten to folk on a swingers sites ramblings

As opposed to the ramblings of Eck at a lectern in the RSAMD.

"Aliens" "other side of the road" WTF? "

Onny if you ever kept up with the news you would understand where that was coming from

same as you will be aware that Independence will be on the 24th March 2016 and before that there will be a Scottish election so that the Scottish people can vote in the party they want to run the Independent Scotland

now what can be fairer than that! the people of Scotland voting for the party they want to run the newly Independent country

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who's. Wee huff pmsl

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow


"I'm just curious, when these topics are discussed I never see mention of Gordon Brown, Alastair Darling etc etc. why is that?

They both are not fans of independance, why would they feature on this ?

I keep reading how Scotland is dictated too and controlled by the English, I wondered how Brown, Darling, Blair, etc etc (all scots) fitted in to that theory. They were all labour mps, Scotland voted labour, they ran the uk . I wondered why all these very high profile scots, who ran the uk, are seemingly airbrushed out whilst saying that the English dictate. I would like that explaining."

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow


"Ahh right, free? Wat free as in independant, like Greece or southern ireland or iceland?

All bailed out when being independant didnae really help matters to be fair,,"

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow


"Surely the head will rule the heart, and it will be a No vote. But part of me wants to see an independent Scotland have to introduce the Scottish Schilling instead of the British Pound, while it applies for the Euro, assuming it is elligible as a member of the EU? "

And do we really want to have the Euro??

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow


"People here and elsewhere are talking about 'independence' but its hardly independence when Eck insists we keep the Monarchy and a currency controlled by the central bank of a foreign currency."

His performance the other night shows that Alex Salmond is losing the plot!

"it's Scotland's pound" he says, what a joke. The pound is the UK currency, governed by the Bank of England/UK government, it's Scotland's pound only while Scotland is part of the UK. An independent Scotland would be a foreign country so how on earth could it claim the pound to be Scottish?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apparently. The euro. Is off the table. An not even a possibility

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

With heart and head, it has to be yes.

Logical analysis dictates as much.

No other country which has gained the lifeblood of independence has ever expressed the wish to once again be subsumed within the uncaring hands of its dominant "partner".

This was a shotgun wedding and this is the only chance in over 300 years that the people have been consulted.

If you believe in a country's right to determine its own affairs, if you wish to be rid of the expensive obscenity that is the trident wmd system, if you wish to be free from a government which is ever ready to instigate hugely destructive and unpopular wars (bringing terror threats to our own shores, if you wish to be rid of an establishment (including the labour & libdum Westminster-Scots) which is self-serving, corrupt and resistant to reform..... the answer is obvious.

Economy? With our resources (including the skills and inventiveness of our people), we will do just fine.

Even Cameron said that Britain was broken and broke. Let's rid ourselves of the dead weight of a London-centric system and do things better for ourselves.

Scottish politicians at Westminster are dead against losing their place on the gravy train, which is why they adopt the position they are doing.

They forget it's not supposed to be about their career, enrichment, ennoblement or the interests of the party to which they have sold themselves.

This is essentially a vote on democracy and the rights of Scots to determine our own future, from whatever side of the political spectrum we belong.

Only with independence will we always get the government that we vote for - one which is closer to us in location and understanding.

Reject the politics of the parties and embrace the spirit of community - let's all get together and put our full effort into making Scotland a better place for ourselves and future.

The status quo is just not acceptable. generations.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

His performance the other night shows that Alex Salmond is losing the plot!

"

I thought he also had a poor performance, or perhaps it is to entice

David Cameron to debate!!!!!!

After the previous debate Cameron may think he could have a chance

.

.

and then the trap closes!!!

.

and for the person that said shell is getting rid of 250 offshore jobs, fact is, it is 250 onshore jobs, same as Chevron--- getting rid of dead wood, it happens every 4 - 5 years

. nice comments above mine, well said

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow

As I've said before, what's the point of getting independence from Westminster, then being ruled by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels? Or am I missing something?

AS likes to cite Norway as an example, is it a full member of the EU? Does it use the euro?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As I've said before, what's the point of getting independence from Westminster, then being ruled by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels? Or am I missing something?

AS likes to cite Norway as an example, is it a full member of the EU? Does it use the euro?"

YES

Yes you are missing something

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"As I've said before, what's the point of getting independence from Westminster, then being ruled by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels? Or am I missing something?

AS likes to cite Norway as an example, is it a full member of the EU? Does it use the euro?

YES

Yes you are missing something"

Norway is NOT a member of the EU.

It does NOT use the euro.

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By *ifes journeyCouple
over a year ago

scotland


" history will show you that the pound was scottish first my friend ,,,id like to see us get the quid lol "

From what I've read, think people need to check the facts before posting pish. Hold on, that's exactly what the Indy camp do.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/08/14 19:13:39]

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow.


"

Only with in dependence will we always get the government that we vote for - one which is closer to us in location and understanding.

"

This always does my head in.

The current scottish government was elected with 46% of the total votes cast.

If you take it as a % of total votes available it drops to ~22%.

The government 'we' voted for. Cough, cough.

Hands up those who voted for

A single state police force?

Child guardians and girfec?

Loss of corroboration?

Police carrying guns openly to common crimes?

Not me and not in my name.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why would Scotland need the cost of an army, navy, air force, marines, special forces? Who are we planning to invade? Who would want to invade us? England ? Possibly ,if the yanks told them to and they managed to create a nice dodgy dossier, not the first time Scotland has been invaded by England and they also have form on dodgy dossiers as well.

Why would an independent country need a defence force - Is that really a serious question? "

Even Switzerland have a defence force any they have not been involved in a war for hundreds of years.

And the have more tanks than the UK !!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"With heart and head, it has to be yes.

Logical analysis dictates as much.

No other country which has gained the lifeblood of independence has ever expressed the wish to once again be subsumed within the uncaring hands of its dominant "partner".

This was a shotgun wedding and this is the only chance in over 300 years that the people have been consulted.

If you believe in a country's right to determine its own affairs, if you wish to be rid of the expensive obscenity that is the trident wmd system, if you wish to be free from a government which is ever ready to instigate hugely destructive and unpopular wars (bringing terror threats to our own shores, if you wish to be rid of an establishment (including the labour & libdum Westminster-Scots) which is self-serving, corrupt and resistant to reform..... the answer is obvious.

Economy? With our resources (including the skills and inventiveness of our people), we will do just fine.

Even Cameron said that Britain was broken and broke. Let's rid ourselves of the dead weight of a London-centric system and do things better for ourselves.

Scottish politicians at Westminster are dead against losing their place on the gravy train, which is why they adopt the position they are doing.

They forget it's not supposed to be about their career, enrichment, ennoblement or the interests of the party to which they have sold themselves.

This is essentially a vote on democracy and the rights of Scots to determine our own future, from whatever side of the political spectrum we belong.

Only with independence will we always get the government that we vote for - one which is closer to us in location and understanding.

Reject the politics of the parties and embrace the spirit of community - let's all get together and put our full effort into making Scotland a better place for ourselves and future.

The status quo is just not acceptable. generations."

well said

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"

Only with in dependence will we always get the government that we vote for - one which is closer to us in location and understanding.

This always does my head in.

The current scottish government was elected with 46% of the total votes cast.

If you take it as a % of total votes available it drops to ~22%.

The government 'we' voted for. Cough, cough.

Hands up those who voted for

A single state police force?

Child guardians and girfec?

Loss of corroboration?

Police carrying guns openly to common crimes?

Not me and not in my name.

"

Oh dear, Jane. Scotland has a more representative government than the UK's non-representative FPTP system and uneven electoral boundaries - and the undemocratic libdum and labour parties even scuppered plans to reform the boundaries because they were, respectively, in a tizz with their coalition partners and they did not wish to lose their unfair advantage.

What a sham of a democracy!

Then, let us not forget that disgraceful incident when the original devolution vote was thwarted and democracy subverted by the labour party, with their disgusting 40% fix - truly worthy of a banana republic dictatorship.

Are you not disgusted by the sordid, corrupt character of Westminster and its inhabitants?

As for the adverse legislation instigated by the sanctimonious church elder - that can be changed. Much as I dislike it, because it mirrors the worst anti-democratic and fascistic elements of new labour, it was introduced by a government which had an outright majority, in a voting system designed by labour to avoid their opponents ever winning so well.

Want to count the non-voters and the dead (but still on the register) on your side? That is labour's way!

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow.

Oh dear,sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't agree with either system.

Full of self serving career politicians, many who have no idea of 'real life' having been party apparatchiks. Activist researcher councillor msp/mp with no work outside politics or the law.

Personally I want to bin the entire lot of them, federalise the Uk, double the size of constituencies, elect 2 representatives per constituency 1 male 1 female. These representatives would have a maximum of three fixed terms. They would also have had to have held a position of paid employment in a non political environment for 3 of the preceding 5 years before election. A maximum of 160 national representatives - defense, international relations, major health policy, major infrastucture,higher education and basic taxation would be their remit

This would also be the template for the regional governments.

These would have a maximum of 100 representatives with local taxation, policing ,employment, planning, transport, health and education (tertiary if ceded from the center).

From house flipping Darling to Eck, his tartan troo's and 54k of fripperies.

From Cash for questions to Wee Nick knew, they are ALL a bunch of self serving, pocket filling scum bags.

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow


"As I've said before, what's the point of getting independence from Westminster, then being ruled by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels? Or am I missing something?

AS likes to cite Norway as an example, is it a full member of the EU? Does it use the euro?

YES

Yes you are missing something

Norway is NOT a member of the EU.

It does NOT use the euro."

Exactly, yet AS is forever holding it up as an example to follow. He really has lost it, even contradicting himself!!

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow


"

Only with in dependence will we always get the government that we vote for - one which is closer to us in location and understanding.

This always does my head in.

The current scottish government was elected with 46% of the total votes cast.

If you take it as a % of total votes available it drops to ~22%.

The government 'we' voted for. Cough, cough.

Hands up those who voted for

A single state police force?

Child guardians and girfec?

Loss of corroboration?

Police carrying guns openly to common crimes?

Not me and not in my name.

"

But these are facts, Yes campaigners don't like them getting in the way of their hysterical mantra.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

Are you not disgusted by the sordid, corrupt character of Westminster and its inhabitants?

"

again the "lets blame westminster for the woes" card.....

if westminster controls everything.... what the bloody hell has the scottish parliament been doing for the last 20 years??? sitting on their arses!!!

lets dispell a few myths about what powers westminster does have over scotland....

the scottish parliament has powers over these issues in scotland....

agriculture, fisheries and forestry, economic development, education, environment, food standards, health, home affairs, Scots law – courts, police and fire services, local government, sport and the arts, transport, training, tourism, research and statistics and social work

if those things aren't working should the focus be on holyrood and that administration rather than westminster

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

oooh and one question for people on the currency issue....

again milliband came out today and said there would be no currency union... and went further to say he would put it in the next general election manafesto there labour would put a veto on currency union....

in the last few weeks all 3 main party leaders have said they would not support a currency union, the govenor of the bank of england has said it would be almost impossible... the welsh first minister has come out against currency union as it would not be in wales best interest.. as well as the permanent secretary to the treasury (the top independant civil servant)

so.... whats plan b?

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By *ary_ArgyllMan
over a year ago

Argyll

I agree with the last OP - devo-max after a no vote will give additional powers to Holyrood leaving only issues such as defence as UK wide. I don't see much advantage in independence but a huge set of risks around currency and finance which the Yes campaign has not been able to address. Regarding centralisation in Westminster this applies to all parts of the UK and more regional powers would benefit the whole country. Breaking up the relatively successful union is not necessary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"oooh and one question for people on the currency issue....

again milliband came out today and said there would be no currency union... and went further to say he would put it in the next general election manafesto there labour would put a veto on currency union....

in the last few weeks all 3 main party leaders have said they would not support a currency union, the govenor of the bank of england has said it would be almost impossible... the welsh first minister has come out against currency union as it would not be in wales best interest.. as well as the permanent secretary to the treasury (the top independant civil servant)

so.... whats plan b?"
$

I read millibands QandA earlier on fb and he said in the event of a yes vote there would have to be negotiations on a currency union this was said on live radio ,wonder how darling and bitter together are feeling now after their leader just shafted them lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I agree with the last OP - devo-max after a no vote will give additional powers to Holyrood leaving only issues such as defence as UK wide. I don't see much advantage in independence but a huge set of risks around currency and finance which the Yes campaign has not been able to address. Regarding centralisation in Westminster this applies to all parts of the UK and more regional powers would benefit the whole country. Breaking up the relatively successful union is not necessary."

Do you realise how much a trillion pounds of dept actually is, its easy to say but difficult to write in numbers and with this dept you think its acceptable and successful

Westminster has dug a hole that the UK will never climb out off, its a one way road to disaster and bankrupt. Only a yes vote will get Scotland back on its feet as a Country & nation.

Some countries fight wars for Independence, Scotland only has to cross a box, and some Scots dont even have the courage to do that.

Its true that NO voters suffer from the Stockholm Syndrome

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I agree with the last OP - devo-max after a no vote will give additional powers to Holyrood leaving only issues such as defence as UK wide. I don't see much advantage in independence but a huge set of risks around currency and finance which the Yes campaign has not been able to address. Regarding centralisation in Westminster this applies to all parts of the UK and more regional powers would benefit the whole country. Breaking up the relatively successful union is not necessary.

Do you realise how much a trillion pounds of dept actually is, its easy to say but difficult to write in numbers and with this dept you think its acceptable and successful

Westminster has dug a hole that the UK will never climb out off, its a one way road to disaster and bankrupt. Only a yes vote will get Scotland back on its feet as a Country & nation.

Some countries fight wars for Independence, Scotland only has to cross a box, and some Scots dont even have the courage to do that.

Its true that NO voters suffer from the Stockholm Syndrome"

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"oooh and one question for people on the currency issue....

again milliband came out today and said there would be no currency union... and went further to say he would put it in the next general election manafesto there labour would put a veto on currency union....

in the last few weeks all 3 main party leaders have said they would not support a currency union, the govenor of the bank of england has said it would be almost impossible... the welsh first minister has come out against currency union as it would not be in wales best interest.. as well as the permanent secretary to the treasury (the top independant civil servant)

so.... whats plan b? $

I read millibands QandA earlier on fb and he said in the event of a yes vote there would have to be negotiations on a currency union this was said on live radio ,wonder how darling and bitter together are feeling now after their leader just shafted them lol"

can you show me where that is quoted please... because no one seems to be reporting it....

I'll show you where I can confirm what I have said...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/08/independent-scotland-pound-ed-miliband-salmond

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband-piles-pressure-alex-4026691

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/veto-on-currency-union-to-be-enshrined-in-manifestos.24996644

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By *hrissie1961Woman
over a year ago

dumfries and galloway

We have our own muppet show at Holyrood ......almost everything is devolved and they have done sweet fanny Adams to improve our lot.....they are making a sterling job of wrecking the NHS, education.....childcare and pretty much everything else they control.....oh Nd leading us to insolvency

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

Do you realise how much a trillion pounds of dept actually is, its easy to say but difficult to write in numbers and with this dept you think its acceptable and successful

Westminster has dug a hole that the UK will never climb out off, its a one way road to disaster and bankrupt. Only a yes vote will get Scotland back on its feet as a Country & nation.

Some countries fight wars for Independence, Scotland only has to cross a box, and some Scots dont even have the courage to do that.

Its true that NO voters suffer from the Stockholm Syndrome"

if you are saying that it is true of the NO voters... then you could also say that a lot of the vocal yes supporters seem to be seeing everything in "rose tinted glasses"...

so lets be realistic.... and have a sensible conversation...

when there is no currency union for the reasons and the people above has said it is not in the Ruk best interest....

what is your plan b?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"We have our own muppet show at Holyrood ......almost everything is devolved and they have done sweet fanny Adams to improve our lot.....they are making a sterling job of wrecking the NHS, education.....childcare and pretty much everything else they control.....oh Nd leading us to insolvency"

thank you... and that is the point a lot of people are making... all well and good blaming westminster, but at a local level it isn't westminster making the decisions that effect everyday scottish life

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

should westminster decide to go start another illigal war with a dodgy dossier nicely tucked into its back pocket this will effect every person in Scotland and there is nothing we can do about it , as a free self determining country we can say to england and its backer the usa - go stick your desire to invade other peoples country where the sun dont shine

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We do have free prescriptions, free university education & I understand they pay the bedroom tax so those in Scotland aren't impacted by the Westminster policy (I may be wrong). So Hollywood has made some good decisions for scotland, not saying all good but it has had some benefits to date.

D

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mr Salmond had a super chance on the big debate to gain more yes votes from the undecided's and as the main man, the driving force, he did nothing to convince people. Poor show.

If it was to be Yes winning, the poor buggers meant to be governing us would have years and years sorting and developing the changes, with not a lot of time creating this better independant Scotland.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

I've got to admit, sitting here right now I'm certianly not feeling 'oppressed' by Westminster.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"We do have free prescriptions, free university education & I understand they pay the bedroom tax so those in Scotland aren't impacted by the Westminster policy (I may be wrong). So Hollywood has made some good decisions for scotland, not saying all good but it has had some benefits to date.

D"

so..... what you are saying... and this is going to be really radical to those on the yes side that always slam westminster... is that scotland always has the level of autonomy to make decisions and does make the decisions for scotland at a local level already!!!

wow!!! when did this happen.... because from the yes side you would think "never"....

p.s prescription charges... it is also free in northern ireland and in wales... because they make those decisions at a local level as well..... fancy that!!!!

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"We do have free prescriptions, free university education & I understand they pay the bedroom tax so those in Scotland aren't impacted by the Westminster policy (I may be wrong). So Hollywood has made some good decisions for scotland, not saying all good but it has had some benefits to date.

D

so..... what you are saying... and this is going to be really radical to those on the yes side that always slam westminster... is that scotland always has the level of autonomy to make decisions and does make the decisions for scotland at a local level already!!!

wow!!! when did this happen.... because from the yes side you would think "never"....

p.s prescription charges... it is also free in northern ireland and in wales... because they make those decisions at a local level as well..... fancy that!!!!"

The SNP have encouraged many on the Yes side to repeat the mantra that we aren't making our own decisions. I have a few problems with this train of thought.

Firstly, when people say 'we' how does this really change whether it's the Scottish parliament or Westminster? Either way we have voted for representatives in either parliament and both will make decisions we agree and disagree with. To me the border between Scotland and England is invisible and I have as much in common with those in middle and northern England as I do with those on the east Coast or north of Scotland (possibly moreso in some cases). The issues we face are the same and don't change because of some invisible line.

Second, what if I live in a Labour or Conservative stronghold? Should I be stamping my feet and complaining about not getting the government we elected because the SNP is in power? Should I be looking for independence from the oppressive Edinburgh government? After all Scotland is a country of many different political views and outlooks. We can go back in history to find many examples of this (the Jacobite uprising for a start)

I was gonna go on but I'm getting kinda bored now

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield


"should westminster decide to go start another illigal war with a dodgy dossier nicely tucked into its back pocket this will effect every person in Scotland and there is nothing we can do about it , as a free self determining country we can say to england and its backer the usa - go stick your desire to invade other peoples country where the sun dont shine "

When are the scots going to man up, stop blaming the english for everything and take a proper look at themselves and their track record?

It was a SCOT who was responsible for advocating the dodgy dossier, it was a SCOT who was pm when the banks went belly up after he had delegislated the financial sector.

It was a Scot who was chancellor and decided to keep throwing good money after bad.

These scots all represented a party that the vast majority of scotland voted for.

I ask again, how is all this the fault of England and why are the scots who ran the uk being forgotten about by people who seem to insist that the english are the oppressors?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not oppressed here, kinda conveinient to gloss over the bank thing,it was bankers who created that mess, which Alec Salmond himself used to be, lol, marvelous,

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"should westminster decide to go start another illigal war with a dodgy dossier nicely tucked into its back pocket this will effect every person in Scotland and there is nothing we can do about it , as a free self determining country we can say to england and its backer the usa - go stick your desire to invade other peoples country where the sun dont shine

When are the scots going to man up, stop blaming the english for everything and take a proper look at themselves and their track record?

It was a SCOT who was responsible for advocating the dodgy dossier, it was a SCOT who was pm when the banks went belly up after he had delegislated the financial sector.

It was a Scot who was chancellor and decided to keep throwing good money after bad.

These scots all represented a party that the vast majority of scotland voted for.

I ask again, how is all this the fault of England and why are the scots who ran the uk being forgotten about by people who seem to insist that the english are the oppressors?"

You do realise you're as bad as those you are questioning when you start with an opening line like the one you did. It's kinda like starting a question with 'Why do the English hate immigrants and blame the EU for everything...'. Huge, false generalisations don't do any good.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

of all the countrys that are members of the UN , only 22 have never been invaded by the english empire , wish Scotland belonged to that club

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield


"should westminster decide to go start another illigal war with a dodgy dossier nicely tucked into its back pocket this will effect every person in Scotland and there is nothing we can do about it , as a free self determining country we can say to england and its backer the usa - go stick your desire to invade other peoples country where the sun dont shine

When are the scots going to man up, stop blaming the english for everything and take a proper look at themselves and their track record?

It was a SCOT who was responsible for advocating the dodgy dossier, it was a SCOT who was pm when the banks went belly up after he had delegislated the financial sector.

It was a Scot who was chancellor and decided to keep throwing good money after bad.

These scots all represented a party that the vast majority of scotland voted for.

I ask again, how is all this the fault of England and why are the scots who ran the uk being forgotten about by people who seem to insist that the english are the oppressors?

You do realise you're as bad as those you are questioning when you start with an opening line like the one you did. It's kinda like starting a question with 'Why do the English hate immigrants and blame the EU for everything...'. Huge, false generalisations don't do any good."

I take it that all sweeping generalisations have been challenged?

Ok, I missed the word, some, out of the first line, Mia culpa! The question still stands and has still not been answered. The op still refers to the English empire. Is all that acceptable?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We do have free prescriptions, free university education & I understand they pay the bedroom tax so those in Scotland aren't impacted by the Westminster policy (I may be wrong). So Hollywood has made some good decisions for scotland, not saying all good but it has had some benefits to date.

D"

There is no such thing as a free lunch !!! They have to be paid for by cuts else where. The colleges have been devastated ( HND , HNC NC ) to keep universities free. There are 26 % less hospital beds in Scotland now.

I do not believe prescription charges should be £ 8 but lower and I for one should be paying them. Under the old system the young , elderly and poor did not pay the charges. So I can afford the charges and by not paying I am robbing NHS Scotland of funds

I am not pro or against indipendance but please see a bribe when it is so blatant !!!

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

To understand you would need to have lived here. and watched it happen example guy works in a box making factory going great guns secures a massive million pound deal with a whiskey company shortly after same company in england messes up costing the company massive losses guess which company gets closed there are many many storys of the gaelic portionsof the uk being bombed Iin favour of keeping england sweet

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"should westminster decide to go start another illigal war with a dodgy dossier nicely tucked into its back pocket this will effect every person in Scotland and there is nothing we can do about it , as a free self determining country we can say to england and its backer the usa - go stick your desire to invade other peoples country where the sun dont shine

When are the scots going to man up, stop blaming the english for everything and take a proper look at themselves and their track record?

It was a SCOT who was responsible for advocating the dodgy dossier, it was a SCOT who was pm when the banks went belly up after he had delegislated the financial sector.

It was a Scot who was chancellor and decided to keep throwing good money after bad.

These scots all represented a party that the vast majority of scotland voted for.

I ask again, how is all this the fault of England and why are the scots who ran the uk being forgotten about by people who seem to insist that the english are the oppressors?

You do realise you're as bad as those you are questioning when you start with an opening line like the one you did. It's kinda like starting a question with 'Why do the English hate immigrants and blame the EU for everything...'. Huge, false generalisations don't do any good.

I take it that all sweeping generalisations have been challenged?

Ok, I missed the word, some, out of the first line, Mia culpa! The question still stands and has still not been answered. The op still refers to the English empire. Is all that acceptable?"

Missing the word 'some' out does make a big difference to the statement though obviously. As for the op claiming the empire is English then no, but that's why I was saying you are basically bringing yourself down to their level of stupidity when you make the same sweeping statements without qualifiers. If he wants to claim all English yadda yadda, and you want to claim all Scotish yadda yadda then really you're as bad as each other.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"To understand you would need to have lived here. and watched it happen example guy works in a box making factory going great guns secures a massive million pound deal with a whiskey company shortly after same company in england messes up costing the company massive losses guess which company gets closed there are many many storys of the gaelic portionsof the uk being bombed Iin favour of keeping england sweet "

Where precisely are these Gaelic portions of the UK?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

There has been fresh embarrassment for Alex Salmond today as the independence supporting actor, Brian Cox, rejected his plans to break up the BBC in a separate Scotland.

Cox, who helped to launch the Yes Scotland campaign alongside Mr Salmond said in today’s Scotsman;

“I don’t want to see a separate Scottish broadcaster. I’m in favour of having a broadcasting institution which has a sense of equity about it. I think the BBC is great.”

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By *eonardo Da VinciMan
over a year ago

manchester

The only people in Scotland that want independence are the ill informed, the ignorant and the bigotted English haters! Unfortunately that makes up about 40% of Scotland. Lets hope that the rest of us, keep them in check and VOTE NO.

Scotland has faired well during the recession, why fellow Scots complain that somehow they are hard done by is beyond belief!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The only people in Scotland that want independence are the ill informed, the ignorant and the bigotted English haters! Unfortunately that makes up about 40% of Scotland. Lets hope that the rest of us, keep them in check and VOTE NO.

Scotland has faired well during the recession, why fellow Scots complain that somehow they are hard done by is beyond belief! "

Nothing to do with the English mate, its Westminster we have the problem with, many good friends of mine are english and they would also vote yes if they had the chance and infact some of them are voting yes as they live in Scotland and work on the oilrigs so dont go on about English hating as many mates from Middlesbrough and teeside area always side with the scots

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can gamble with voting yes if your a wealthy oil rig worker i guess, doubt it would phase most in that fortunate position.

I tend to agree with previous comment, tends to be the ill informed, which tends to be the younger generation,who dont have much knowledge of the history of politics,Mr Salmond wants the voting age lowered does he not?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

why I am votint YES

1; OIL; we have one of the worlds largest oil finds just discovered and it will not be announced to UK until October 2014 - after the ellection, the find is huge, massive, and it is called the Clair Ridge PHASE 3.

Claire Ridge phase I&II have been announced and will come online 2015/2016 and will see the UK well past the year 2050 and this is without the Clair Ridge 3 announcement or other finds

2; Our Health Service will flourish under an independent scotland and will not be privatised; our mail will be returned from privatisation

3; Free education and we have more Top Universities per head than any other country to the fact that we educate "future Kings"

4; Life Sectors and future sciences, turn over of around £billion a year and employs around 16,000 people

5; Manufacturers Export £15 billion

6; Tourism - £6.5 billion

7; Food & drink £13 billion

8; 20% of europes fisheries

9; Financial Security, first class Childcare for families, new & better jobs, apprenticeships for the young, attract & retain bussiness, tackle low pay & end zero hour contracts

10; I will retire at the age of 55 with a yes vote and 57 if a no vote. I will pick up my state funded pension at 65 with a yes vote, 67 with a No vote

11; £1,500 billion in oil & gas reserves and trillions of reserves in the Clair ridge phase 3.

Clair ridge phase 3 is not fantasy, it is my job and I know it well.

as for the pound, we will keep the pound as the rest of UK will be desperate for us to take our share of dept, no pound no share of dept and we will wipe out the dept no problem then start a huge oil savings fund for future generations

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"why I am votint YES

1; OIL; we have one of the worlds largest oil finds just discovered and it will not be announced to UK until October 2014 - after the ellection, the find is huge, massive, and it is called the Clair Ridge PHASE 3.

Claire Ridge phase I&II have been announced and will come online 2015/2016 and will see the UK well past the year 2050 and this is without the Clair Ridge 3 announcement or other finds

2; Our Health Service will flourish under an independent scotland and will not be privatised; our mail will be returned from privatisation

3; Free education and we have more Top Universities per head than any other country to the fact that we educate "future Kings"

4; Life Sectors and future sciences, turn over of around £billion a year and employs around 16,000 people

5; Manufacturers Export £15 billion

6; Tourism - £6.5 billion

7; Food & drink £13 billion

8; 20% of europes fisheries

9; Financial Security, first class Childcare for families, new & better jobs, apprenticeships for the young, attract & retain bussiness, tackle low pay & end zero hour contracts

10; I will retire at the age of 55 with a yes vote and 57 if a no vote. I will pick up my state funded pension at 65 with a yes vote, 67 with a No vote

11; £1,500 billion in oil & gas reserves and trillions of reserves in the Clair ridge phase 3.

Clair ridge phase 3 is not fantasy, it is my job and I know it well.

as for the pound, we will keep the pound as the rest of UK will be desperate for us to take our share of dept, no pound no share of dept and we will wipe out the dept no problem then start a huge oil savings fund for future generations"

You do realise that some of these points are actually reasons for staying within the union. For example points 3 and 4 show that these areas are doing very well at the moment, would this be the case post independence? According to many scientific experts we would be much worse off with funding reduced.

We don't have any evidence for points 2 and 9, the seem more like wishful thinking.

Point 10 is untrue. The SNP have just said they will set up a commission to look at the retirement date. They haven't said they will keep it at 65.

Points 5- 8 are similar to some of the earlier ones, i.e. they show the success we are having in these areas as part of the union.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

success as part of the union; behave

all of these things have been made whilst struggling with westminster and remember if a no vote, the barnett formula will be scrapped and we will be in deeper shit whilst westminster reaps all oil cash, I note you say nothing at all on Clair ridge project, turning a blind eye to that are you!!!

.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


".....

as for the pound, we will keep the pound as the rest of UK will be desperate for us to take our share of dept, no pound no share of dept and we will wipe out the dept no problem then start a huge oil savings fund for future generations"

No share of debt = no international financial credibility.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and we will wipe out the dept no problem then start a huge oil savings fund for future generations"

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"and we will wipe out the dept no problem then start a huge oil savings fund for future generations"

"

Another unsubstantiated 'promise'.

It's all a bit pig in a poke.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"success as part of the union; behave

all of these things have been made whilst struggling with westminster and remember if a no vote, the barnett formula will be scrapped and we will be in deeper shit whilst westminster reaps all oil cash, I note you say nothing at all on Clair ridge project, turning a blind eye to that are you!!!

."

I don't know anything about Clair ridge so I never posted anything about it. If an oil field is considered to be a reason for independence then I'm afraid that's not going to be a game changer.

However I see you are unable to refute the points made and instead inserted a meaningless statement about struggling with Westminster. Can you back this up by, for example, providing evidence that the life science sector is struggling with Westminster? It's easy to find people within the sector who are more concerned about independence and have been vocal about it.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow.


"success as part of the union; behave

all of these things have been made whilst struggling with westminster and remember if a no vote, the barnett formula will be scrapped and we will be in deeper shit whilst westminster reaps all oil cash, I note you say nothing at all on Clair ridge project, turning a blind eye to that are you!!!

."

Note the scaremongering and 'project Mcfear' emanating from this post.

All that was missing was 'privatise the NHS'.

You really have swallowed the SNP line, hook and sinker.

The white paper 'Scotland Future' is not fact, but a list of aspirations.

[B]aspiration[/B]

[as-puh-rey-shuh n]

noun

1.

strong desire, longing, or aim; ambition:

intellectual aspirations.

2.

a goal or objective desired:

The presidency is the traditional aspiration of young American boys.

Now explain today's report that Exane BNP Parais Bas are estimating the loss of 20,000 to 40,000 scottish financial sector jobs if an independent Scotland uses the pound with out a formal currency union.

"The financial sector is unlikely to survive in its present guise"

No amount of ostrich/deflection/denial politics from the SNP can hide the fact that the position on currency is dead in the water and that this issue will - to paraphrase "become a millstone around the campaigns neck"

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"why I am votint YES

1; OIL; we have one of the worlds largest oil finds just discovered and it will not be announced to UK until October 2014 - after the ellection, the find is huge, massive, and it is called the Clair Ridge PHASE 3.

Claire Ridge phase I&II have been announced and will come online 2015/2016 and will see the UK well past the year 2050 and this is without the Clair Ridge 3 announcement or other finds

2; Our Health Service will flourish under an independent scotland and will not be privatised; our mail will be returned from privatisation

3; Free education and we have more Top Universities per head than any other country to the fact that we educate "future Kings"

4; Life Sectors and future sciences, turn over of around £billion a year and employs around 16,000 people

5; Manufacturers Export £15 billion

6; Tourism - £6.5 billion

7; Food & drink £13 billion

8; 20% of europes fisheries

9; Financial Security, first class Childcare for families, new & better jobs, apprenticeships for the young, attract & retain bussiness, tackle low pay & end zero hour contracts

10; I will retire at the age of 55 with a yes vote and 57 if a no vote. I will pick up my state funded pension at 65 with a yes vote, 67 with a No vote

11; £1,500 billion in oil & gas reserves and trillions of reserves in the Clair ridge phase 3.

Clair ridge phase 3 is not fantasy, it is my job and I know it well.

as for the pound, we will keep the pound as the rest of UK will be desperate for us to take our share of dept, no pound no share of dept and we will wipe out the dept no problem then start a huge oil savings fund for future generations"

but you do know that you already have control of points 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9 thru that thing called the scottish parliament... who make those decisions at a scottish level for scotland......

and since you use local knowledge for oil, let me use local knowledge for pensions.. since its the job I work in... to answer point 10

if you really think retirement age for a state pension would ever be 55...or even 57, then you truely are living in cloud cuckoo land....

there would never be enough money coming in from the rest of the work population to support the money you would need to pay for it.....

if the Ruk are 66, germany 66, france 66, the us are going up to 66... why do you think scotland would be 57? part of the reason greece and cyprus got into a mess is that there pension ages were 52 and 55!!

oh and as for the rest of the UK begging scotland to keep a currency union .... its certainly in scotlands interest... not in the rest of the UK those, says governor of bank of england, first minister of wales, all 3 party leaders, and the top independent civil servant to the treasury...

and if you say you wont take the debt... all that kind of threat would get you would be "default" credit rating status in monetary systems all across the world... and most probably a veto to join the EU (so no norway/sweden type agreements since I know salmond likes to use norway as his utopian example) until you did cough up.....

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

What Scotland doesn't control is the big decisions, like who to invade next at the behest of the USA, all the mineral wealth on and off shore. Our tax money gets shipped south. All the Barnet formula is doing is making sure we are a bought people, when people are bought and sold they are slaves

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow.


"When people are bought and sold they are slaves "

Wow!

The old bought n sold for English gold line.

Hands up those who believe that they are slaves of the evil English empire? That they feel the riding boot of the tory toffs crushing the life from their body?

Are we kept uneducated, in chains, abused and without a voice?

Legal definition of slavery :

The Slavery Convention (1926) says that “slavery is the status or condition of a person over whom any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised.

”International Labour Organization (ILO) Forced Labour Convention (No. 29),  from 1930 defines forced labour as “All work or service that is exacted from any person under the menace of any penalty for which the said person has not offered himself voluntarily.

”Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1948, says:  “No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.”Supplementary Convention on the Abolition of Slavery, The Slave Trade, and Institutions and Practices Similar to Slavery, 1956, lists modern forms of slavery: “Debt bondage, serfdom, forced marriage and the delivery of a child for the exploitation of that child are all slavery like practices and require criminalisation and abolishment.

Or is this the 'slavery' you claim we are in..

Descent-based slavery involves people who are either born into a 'slave' class or are from a 'group' that society views can be used for slave labour.

You'll be claiming we're a downtrodden colony next.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield

Actually, it was a scot who was responsible for promoting the last invasion, iraq, why are you continuing to ignore what is a fact and still trying to blame the evil english?

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow.


"Actually, it was a scot who was responsible for promoting the last invasion, iraq, why are you continuing to ignore what is a fact and still trying to blame the evil english?"

Of course they are, that's why Alex Salmond is so hot on a debate with David Cameron to set up a them and us - downtrodden Scot vs Tory Posh Boy.

The Yes camp keep saying it's not all about the SNP and Alex Salmond, yet it was Alex Salmond who debated with the Alistair Darling.

If it wasn't about Alex, then it surely should have been the head of the Yes campaign Blair Jenkins.

Although they gave since rejoined, the Scottish Green party said this just after the formation of YesScotland...

Two weeks after the official launch of the campaign, Scottish Green Party co-leaderPatrick Harvie distanced his party from Yes Scotland, saying it was "entirely an SNP vehicle". He suggest that "could lead to defeat at the referendum in 2014.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ahh right, free? Wat free as in independant, like Greece or southern ireland or iceland?

All bailed out when being independant didnae really help matters to be fair,,"

What, you mean like Britain was by the Americans, as just revealed by the audit of America's central bank?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Actually, it was a scot who was responsible for promoting the last invasion, iraq, why are you continuing to ignore what is a fact and still trying to blame the evil english?"

Well, born here, but raised in Australia and Durham.

You mistake these people's origins as relevant to their political attitudes and are trying to make this debate about ethnicity, which it most certainly is not. There may well have been quite a few Scots at the top of the tree in the last Labour government but they were purely political animals who put themselves ahead of their electorate. Blair and Brown were avowed Thatcherites who betrayed everything for which the Labour party stood.

We also saw how England felt avout thia perceived 'rule' from Scotland, with Tories demanding that Scots be banned from being prime minister. (Try making that demand and saying Asians instead of Scots.) Even the general public in England, whipped up by the Daily Mail et al, resented this 'foreign' influence with bleating about how unfair it all was. All I could think was that they didn't like the boot on the other foot. Not that it ever really was since the pair of them pandered to the City more than even Thatcher dared and Scotland's 59 out of 650 MPs still had no real influence on policy. The Tories are still keen to limit Scots MPs'voting rights on English matters

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jane D, are you aware that one of the terms of the Act of Proscription allowed Scots "to be transported to any of his Majesty's plantations beyond the seas, there to remain for the space of seven years", effectively indentured servitude a posh form of slavery? And, since they had to make their own way back, seven years was really a life sentence. For wearing tartan.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh dear Fabio, I like you a lot, mate, but you're so wrong on this.

1st, you do know that Westminster can take back any powers from Holyrood at any time at its own discretion? 2nd, the NHS may be under our nominal control, but it's budget level is not. As is budget is linked to NHS spending in England, as that is privatised and its budget cut, so it's funding cut in Scotland and privatisation will be forced through.

Currency union a benefit to Scotland but "not in the rest of the UK those, says governor of bank of england, first minister of wales, all 3 party leaders, and the top independent civil servant to the treasury.."

Mark Carney hasn't said any such thing, the first minister of Wales is a Labour party hack and toeing - just like Johan Lamont - the London party line, and the council service ceased to be independent a long time ago. Do you REALLY think that rUK businesses will accept the damage to their profits that the lack of a currency union with their second biggest market will do?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We have our own muppet show at Holyrood ......almost everything is devolved and they have done sweet fanny Adams to improve our lot.....they are making a sterling job of wrecking the NHS, education.....childcare and pretty much everything else they control.....oh Nd leading us to insolvency"

Here are some of the 'SFA done to improve our lot' by our muppet shows37 ACHIEVEMENTS OF THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT BY THE LABOUR/LIBDEM AND THE SNP SCOTTISH GOVERNMENTS:

The Scottish Governments of the Labour/Libdem and SNP administrations have a high record of Social Responsibility, this list sets out the achievements of the Scottish Parliament. It should be noted that the Scottish Parliament has no powers to borrow money; it is given a set amount of money each year as devised by the Barnet Formula. The Scottish Government therefore has to balance its accounts at the end of every single tax year. ALL these achievements of the Scottish Government have therefore been achieved on budget:

1) Free university education.

2) Free personal care for disabled/elderly.

3) Free prescription charges.

4) Free eyesight tests.

5) Free dental check ups.

6) Free Concessionary bus & coach travel for the disabled/Pensioners (In England/Wales/NI free bus travel is for local buses only, not intercity coaches).

7) Subsidised travel to 16 and 17 year olds in full time education.

8 ) Council Tax frozen for 4 years after 2007 Scottish Parliaments elections, and frozen for a further 5 years after the 2011 Scottish Parliament elections.

9) Concessionary Ferry Travel to Pensioners/Disabled if living on an island or Cowal Peninsula.

10) 16 & 17 year olds in full time education are allowed 2 free ferry journeys per year if living on an island or Cowal Peninsula (Why? - this law is one I don’t really understand).

11) Subsidised ferry journeys for 16/17 years olds in Full Time Education if living on an island or Cowal Peninsula.

12) Bursaries for students in low income groups.

13) Tolls on the Erskine Bridge, Forth Road Bridge and Sky Bridge were all abolished.

14) Scottish crime is now at a 30 year low.

15) Record number of police officers. There are 1000 extra police officers since 2007.

16) M74 Motorway extension completed on budget and ahead of schedule.

17) Unemployment is lower in Scotland than compared to other parts of the UK (with the exception of youth unemployment which is actually higher in Scotland than elsewhere).

18) Scotland has invested more money than any other country on green & renewable energy programmes.

19) Scotland has 20,000 modern apprenticeship training opportunities - more any other part of the UK – partly as a result of the green energy industry in Scotland.

20) Poinding and warrant sales were abolished.

21) The purchase of the HCI Hospital in Clydebank for use by NHS Scotland patients.

22) Free parking in hospital car parks for patients, staff and visitors in all Scottish hospitals.

23) 100 new or refurbished schools.

24) Provision of fresh fruit for infants in nursery schools.

25) A new National Waiting Times Unit.

26) An increase in the number of doctors and nurses in the NHS.

27) 300 dentists recruited from abroad.

28) A pre-school education place for every 3 and 4 year old.

29) More drug seizures compared to earlier periods.

30) A record number of seizures under the proceeds of crime act.

31) New laws to tackle sex offending and other serious crimes.

32) 108 projects to support public transport in rural areas.

33) New ferries, airport terminals, and Edinburgh Cross Rail, the first new railway since 1993.

34) 98,000 more people in jobs since 1999.

35) Every year for the last 5 years there has been negative growth in the economy for all parts of the UK other than Scotland, but Scotland's economy has demonstrated grown in 4 out of the last 5 years” (According to Nicola Sturgeon 25/1/2012)

36) The environment (Scotland) Act made the cruellest types of snares illegal and introduced tight controlled use of snares & stink pits in the hope that this reduces animals dying in inhumane, cruel situations and to reduce animal suffering. (I personally think the legislation did not go far enough as snares are indiscriminate killers – they kill Cats, Dogs, Ferrets/Polecats, Otters, Badgers, even Capercaillies and the endangered Scottish Wildcat, as well as killing the targeted animals e.g. foxes, hares, rabbits etc).

37) As of January 2012, a total of 182 Acts of the Scottish Parliament have received Royal Assent.

Quoted from an english person on another thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

10; I will retire at the age of 55 with a yes vote and 57 if a no vote. I will pick up my state funded pension at 65 with a yes vote, 67 with a No vote

and since you use local knowledge for oil, let me use local knowledge for pensions.. since its the job I work in... to answer point 10

if you really think retirement age for a state pension would ever be 55...or even 57, then you truely are living in cloud cuckoo land....

"

you really need to read before you jump in and quote, perhaps thats whats wrong with retirement pensions right now, people who work there not reading correctly.

As I stated above which i have copied again here for you, I aim to retire at 55 with my private pension, this WILL happen with a YES vote as private pensions always lag 10 years behind state pensions. Osborne has raised retirement age to 67 and if a no vote the earliest retirement for private pensions will be 57. I am afraid its you that lives in cloud cuckoo land and sadly you that deals with pensions.

fact is I have a good private pension that enables me to retire at 55 and collect on top of that my state pension at 67, again if we get a YES vote private pensions will continue to be 55 and the Scotish government will keep stste pension at 65 and not the age of 67 which Osborne has raised it too.

Everything we do in this world includes risk if you want to flourish, even our private pensions are included in shares and bonds all of which can fall same as they can rise but it is this risk that makes them grow and flourish

It is very sad that many Scottish voters cannot accept risk and will vote no.

For these people, and if a no vote wins, then the no voters deserve every thing they get, they will remain as they are now or perhaps a bit poorer and they deserve it.

Regardless of the vote; due to my hard work I will retire hopefully at 55 with a yes vote and if a no vote then 57, at that time if we have a no vote my loyalty will be with Spain and I will take my hard earned cash, pension pot, sell up and move out. I can survive well on a no vote or a yes vote but for the sake and well being of Scotland I urge everyone to vote YES.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Various facts accumlated/digested on here has helped me decide how to vote, thank you all,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The full benefit of a Scottish education in future will be that the population will be able to spell...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The wee bit money sent north oh so grudgingly by the english just ensures that Scotland is a bought country and a bought people . We should get this formula find the boy osbourne and choke him with it , it would send a nice strong message out to the english that Scots will no longer be bought .

But as i said right back at the beginning of this illuminating discussion , well done Jamaica on celebrating being a free and independent country , safe from the cold dead corrupt hand of westminster

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow.


"Jane D, are you aware that one of the terms of the Act of Proscription allowed Scots "to be transported to any of his Majesty's plantations beyond the seas, there to remain for the space of seven years", effectively indentured servitude a posh form of slavery? And, since they had to make their own way back, seven years was really a life sentence. For wearing tartan. "

Yes, and many others from these shores were deported to Australia for the simplest of crimes with the NO right of return.

From the theft of a slice of bread to forming a union of workers (see Tolpuddle martyrs).

If you keep gazing at the past and not moving on, how can you create a "more democratic, more equal society".

Which is a bit rich coming from a current scottish government that has a terrible record on state centralisation.

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow.


"

2) Free personal care for disabled.

15) Record number of police officers. There are 1000 extra police officers since 2007.

"

2. From personal experience - we provide your partner with 1 shower per week and 1 visit monday - Friday - the will be £250 a month please. This is the exact amount she gets for help with personal care.

A financial needs assessment by a council is one of the most invasive assessments out there. Asked how much we spent on hair cuts ffs.

15. How many of those officers are now desk bound due to the decimation of civilian staff due to the formation of Police Scotland?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

2) Free personal care for disabled.

15) Record number of police officers. There are 1000 extra police officers since 2007.

2. From personal experience - we provide your partner with 1 shower per week and 1 visit monday - Friday - the will be £250 a month please. This is the exact amount she gets for help with personal care.

A financial needs assessment by a council is one of the most invasive assessments out there. Asked how much we spent on hair cuts ffs.

15. How many of those officers are now desk bound due to the decimation of civilian staff due to the formation of Police Scotland? "

And how many police stations have been closed ?

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By *eonardo Da VinciMan
over a year ago

manchester

The world is now about more than countries and borders now (globalism), thinking a vote for independence will somehow liberate you is insane! If Scotland becomes a separate country it will be competing with the rest of the UK! There really is only one winner. The oil is finite and would be needed to sustain/sibsidize the rest of the Scottish economy in the current day, it would never be able be able to be used to save like the norwegians did. Also it cost £10 for a pint of beer in norway! Salmond is the piedpiper to the ignorant! Think before you vote inthe 18th as there will be no going back. United we stand.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

United we stand? Ludicrous

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes


"I'm just curious, when these topics are discussed I never see mention of Gordon Brown, Alastair Darling etc etc. why is that?

They both are not fans of independance, why would they feature on this ?

I keep reading how Scotland is dictated too and controlled by the English, I wondered how Brown, Darling, Blair, etc etc (all scots) fitted in to that theory. They were all labour mps, Scotland voted labour, they ran the uk . I wondered why all these very high profile scots, who ran the uk, are seemingly airbrushed out whilst saying that the English dictate. I would like that explaining."

These Scottish MPs really have let down Scotland. Gordon Brown once referred to Scotland, when on an Ametican trip, as North Britain. As to the rest, least said about them the better!

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Not really read through all this guff properly but anyone mentioning the price of a pint in Norway is a buffoon.

If it is £10 a pint do you think that means the bars are all empty and everyone wishing they could afford a pint? Norwegians take home a pretty impressive wage! Do you think there are people in Belarus right now saying "Be a rich country? No thanks - it's £3 a pint in Scotland!" Laughable logic and typical of the lack of understanding you see on the no side.

To suggest only the uninformed are voting yes is ridiculous. Go have a read of wings over Scotland's 'wee blue book' on their website and tell me it is all uninformed nonsense.

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By *unglasgow69Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I bloody hope not. Uk all the way. Stick Independence where the sun doesn't shine. Proud to be British

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By *lasgowkisserMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I'm gonna vote- DONT GIVE A FUCK

we're all screwed no matter who's in charge!!!!

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I bloody hope not. Uk all the way. Stick Independence where the sun doesn't shine. Proud to be British "

Nationalism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I bloody hope not. Uk all the way. Stick Independence where the sun doesn't shine. Proud to be British "

typical Stockholm syndrome

so many countries fight for independence and some Scots don't have the courage to tick a box

you deserve what you get son stick with your chums, Osborne, Cameron, balls, clegg, Miliband and all the other merry men.

.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"I bloody hope not. Uk all the way. Stick Independence where the sun doesn't shine. Proud to be British

typical Stockholm syndrome

so many countries fight for independence and some Scots don't have the courage to tick and box

you deserve what you get son stick with your chums, Osborne, Cameron, balls, clegg, Miliband and all the other merry men.

."
lol so now its cowardly to have your own opinion off to the hiding cupboard

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im a brit and always will be..... simples

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Im a brit and always will be..... simples"

But you do understand that this won't change, right? Britain is a land mass.

Norwegians are still Scandinavian. Peruvians are South American.

This is about where the government lies and where decisions are made. I say best to have Scotland's decisions made in Scotland. But I understand that this point of view makes some people apoplectic with rage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When in doubt pull out. Guess that can be said here.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Im a brit and always will be..... simples

But you do understand that this won't change, right? Britain is a land mass.

Norwegians are still Scandinavian. Peruvians are South American.

This is about where the government lies and where decisions are made. I say best to have Scotland's decisions made in Scotland. But I understand that this point of view makes some people apoplectic with rage. "

1 were talking countries, not land masses.

2 I guess the bit about Scotland's decisions made in Scotland doesn't apply to interest rates.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"I bloody hope not. Uk all the way. Stick Independence where the sun doesn't shine. Proud to be British

typical Stockholm syndrome

so many countries fight for independence and some Scots don't have the courage to tick a box

you deserve what you get son stick with your chums, Osborne, Cameron, balls, clegg, Miliband and all the other merry men.

."

as opposed alex salmond you mean.....

I think I'd pick my poison very carefully......

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


" .....

To suggest only the uninformed are voting yes is ridiculous. Go have a read of wings over Scotland's 'wee blue book' on their website and tell me it is all uninformed nonsense. "

Wings over Scotland is the Bath based equivalent of Pravda and is equally full of shit.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

someone described it perfectly to me earlier...

its like the just yes side are painted this pictures of the uk and scotland being in an abusive relationship so they want a divorce..... but on divorce they decide to keep seeing them because it the only way they would get to keep the house and car......

theres a lot of "having your cake and eating it" on the yes side......

I am still confused as to why they want to keep a currency that mean they would have to basically hand over economic decisions to the people they are apparently running away from.......

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Go have a read of wings over Scotland's 'wee blue book' on their website and tell me it is all uninformed nonsense. "

I had a look at the Wings over Scotland website the other day. Have you read the article about the UK GDP dropping 10% and the effect it would supposedly have? I can't remember the last time I read something so hilariously wrong. Had to google the author to find out who could write something so bad. Turns out he's a computer games journalist and designer. I think economics isn't his strong point

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Go have a read of wings over Scotland's 'wee blue book' on their website and tell me it is all uninformed nonsense.

I had a look at the Wings over Scotland website the other day. Have you read the article about the UK GDP dropping 10% and the effect it would supposedly have? I can't remember the last time I read something so hilariously wrong. Had to google the author to find out who could write something so bad. Turns out he's a computer games journalist and designer. I think economics isn't his strong point "

He (Stuart Cambell) claims to be a Reverend. Needless to say its yet more nonsense.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"someone described it perfectly to me earlier...

its like the just yes side are painted this pictures of the uk and scotland being in an abusive relationship so they want a divorce..... but on divorce they decide to keep seeing them because it the only way they would get to keep the house and car......

theres a lot of "having your cake and eating it" on the yes side......

I am still confused as to why they want to keep a currency that mean they would have to basically hand over economic decisions to the people they are apparently running away from......."

They're scared of scaring the few Yes voters they have left.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Alex Salmond's failure to be honest with Scots about his Plan B on currency is costing him votes. It's clear that the momentum in this campaign is with those of us who believe the brightest future for Scotland is to remain part of the UK.

Alex Salmond wants us to take a leap into the unknown with separation.He wants us to take a huge risk with the future of our country. Yet he can't tell us what money our wages, pensions and benefits would be paid in.

He can't say what currency we would use to invest in our schools and hospitals. And he can't be clear about what money we would be paying our supermarket and energy bills in.

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