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is Palestine. a modern. horror

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

In my lifetime. I have witnessed. On tv so

Many. Atrocities. Veitnam, idi amin

Kymer rouge, Falklands, yugoslavia

Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine. The list goes on and on jesus. Some times hard to call yourself. A human. Being

My point. Is do you think. With tv technology. And Newsteams being. So much closer. That the horror. In Palestine. Seems so much more vivid.

Or is it just the worst. Human. Devastation. That we have ever committed. On each other

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In my lifetime. I have witnessed. On tv so

Many. Atrocities. Veitnam, idi amin

Kymer rouge, Falklands, yugoslavia

Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine. The list goes on and on jesus. Some times hard to call yourself. A human. Being

My point. Is do you think. With tv technology. And Newsteams being. So much closer. That the horror. In Palestine. Seems so much more vivid.

Or is it just the worst. Human. Devastation. That we have ever committed. On each other "
I think it's the total disregard for human life that makes so shocking

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Regrettably Jack, its merely the latest on a long long list and is vivid simply because its happening right now

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree with above

As long as more than one man co habits this planet there will always be conflict, sad fact

Unfortunately in the last 60 years or so live TV streams are bringing it into our living rooms and we are now more aware of the atrocities that are going on.

History has shown mass genocide is not a modern concept. Don't even have to look at the Middle East to see this.

In Glasgow today we celebrate the "Commonwealth" Games but what of the Legacy of this so called Commonwealth. Just a replacement name for EMPIRE where Britain sailed the seas and invaded each and every nation competing.

The Australians all but eradicated the indigenous peoples of that country as did the White settlers in the USA.

So no it's not new and it's not any worse than say Japan 1945 or the Holocaust

Just it's there in your Telly every night

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By *i-shoptonMan
over a year ago

bishopton

Fair comment, however it doesn't mean we should give up on striving for a more equitable world...... There's little point in wringing out hands in angst and guilt at past demeanours.- slave trade etc etc..... Or how far back should we go?.... Crusades?........

The point is , that we as a nation have progressed - we're no perfect!!- but have progressed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree however the rest of the world hasn't

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's no doubt about the fact that the modern media brings shocking and deeply distressing images into our lives on a daily basis and rightly so. We must ALL be made aware of events in order to effect change. I personally don't think that humanity is any worse but it sure as hell isn't any better.

I hate figures and statistics but....

The approved budget for UN Peacekeeping operations for the fiscal year 1 July 2013-30 June 2014 is about $7.83 billion.

By way of comparison, this is less than half of one per cent of world military expenditures (estimated at $1,747 billion in 2013)

Perhaps if these figures were turned around and peacekeeping given priority we might stand a chance...but...that would have to be a worldwide decision. A vain hope, I fear.

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By *ootlover456Man
over a year ago

Paisley

I maintain it seems worse Because Britain is Partially responsible for what is occurring as well as so many fools and governments actually support Israel. regardless of death toll of innocent men women and children who for years have been treated like scum in their own country and the complete lack of regard for their lives that the Zionists have shown for them

however I disagree that media coverage will cause any change. it helps to still up protests which is good in its own way however protests recently have no effect. the Westminster government gave support to Israel regardless of the thousands who protested against the blatant crimes that they are committing.

As for the media. yes they do sensationalise the violence but many of them are not doing it out of respect for the Palestinian people (they pretty much ignored years of suffering and segregation. no much of our dear western media is on the side of Israel and only reporting so much on the deaths so they can wrongly blame Hamas. and why... because Hamas is a Muslim organisation who worships Islam. and hatred for Islam is our thing at the moment. someone mentioned the crusades earlier. I don't think they are over. I think ours and Americas invasion of the middle east if you go through all the lies and slander. will be quite possibly found to be the same age old crap... Christianity wants to kill some Muslims and oh look there's a justifiable reason and a media full of lies. so why don't we as country officially stand up against Israel ? simple because the Muslims are on the other side and our governments and many of the racist bigoted bastards on both sides would not stand for joining forces against them.

look at that I didn't even get into the damn Rothschild's. for me that's not a bad rant. I apologise if its longwinded and a bit ranty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I maintain it seems worse Because Britain is Partially responsible for what is occurring as well as so many fools and governments actually support Israel. regardless of death toll of innocent men women and children who for years have been treated like scum in their own country and the complete lack of regard for their lives that the Zionists have shown for them

however I disagree that media coverage will cause any change. it helps to still up protests which is good in its own way however protests recently have no effect. the Westminster government gave support to Israel regardless of the thousands who protested against the blatant crimes that they are committing.

As for the media. yes they do sensationalise the violence but many of them are not doing it out of respect for the Palestinian people (they pretty much ignored years of suffering and segregation. no much of our dear western media is on the side of Israel and only reporting so much on the deaths so they can wrongly blame Hamas. and why... because Hamas is a Muslim organisation who worships Islam. and hatred for Islam is our thing at the moment. someone mentioned the crusades earlier. I don't think they are over. I think ours and Americas invasion of the middle east if you go through all the lies and slander. will be quite possibly found to be the same age old crap... Christianity wants to kill some Muslims and oh look there's a justifiable reason and a media full of lies. so why don't we as country officially stand up against Israel ? simple because the Muslims are on the other side and our governments and many of the racist bigoted bastards on both sides would not stand for joining forces against them.

look at that I didn't even get into the damn Rothschild's. for me that's not a bad rant. I apologise if its longwinded and a bit ranty. "

WOW someone's spleen is well and truly vented here.

However I do agree especially the Crusades. The USA has been on a crusade since 1776, check their military history, not a single year has past since July 4th 1776 that the US military has not been involved in some form of military crusade

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

If any country other than Israel were perpetrating these war crimes, there would be calls for boycotts, no-fly zones and sanctions. Not to mention breaking Israel's illegal and anti-humanitarian naval blockade of Gaza.

Yet no western government dares to offer criticism of a state which has been built on terrorism, land theft, repression and ethnic cleansing.

Reasonable, objective and justifiable criticism of Israeli policies by individuals and NGO's invariably receives the default response of anti-semitism from Israel and its apologists.

Perhaps the problem can be solved by appointing a peace representative, some ex-politician for example.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The lack of action on the part of "Western" governments to rein in Israels obvious attempts to ethnically cleanse the region it's indigenous occupants is in my opinion the worst crime against humanity of the 21st Century. What makes it all the more horrendous is that the perpetrators of this crime are the very same people who's ancestors endured the barbarity of the Holocaust in 1930's and 1940's Europe.

To truly understand the mindset of Zionist Israelis I would recommend that anyone interested read a book called "Beyond Chutzpah" by the renound political scientist Norman Finkelstein, himself the child of 2 Holocaust survivors.

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By *rown_cock_edinMan
over a year ago

edinburgh


"If any country other than Israel were perpetrating these war crimes, there would be calls for boycotts, no-fly zones and sanctions. Not to mention breaking Israel's illegal and anti-humanitarian naval blockade of Gaza.

Yet no western government dares to offer criticism of a state which has been built on terrorism, land theft, repression and ethnic cleansing.

Reasonable, objective and justifiable criticism of Israeli policies by individuals and NGO's invariably receives the default response of anti-semitism from Israel and its apologists.

Perhaps the problem can be solved by appointing a peace representative, some ex-politician for example. "

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By *rown_cock_edinMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

Even though we see some of what is happening in Gaza, we dont see the true extent... if we saw what we let happen there on our watch, some of us would die of shame!

Why does the US still sell more weapons to Israel, after the body count had already reached over 1000 many of which children (still rising).

We are all connected, we should have learnt to live and let live by now.

Pretty soon we will have Drones flying everywhere killing people and harder to bring thos pushing the buttons to justice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wonder what Yasser Arrafat would be doing if he were around. It's not nice to see any country bullied in such a way.

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh


" Why does the US still sell more weapons to Israel, after the body count had already reached over 1000 many of which children (still rising). "

Politics and religion.

US politicians can not ignore or upset the Jewish vote and there is a powerful, vociferous and well-funded Zionist lobby.

USA is still predominantly a religious country with a great deal of fundamentalist belief, so those Christians who consider the bible to be "the gospel truth" also hold with the belief that the holy land belongs to the children of Israel, god's chosen race of the old testament.

Religion - mankind's perpetual curse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cracking topic, good read so far.

I seen videos posted by some friends on FB, these were graphic videos with bombs going off on civilian areas where kids as little as 10 were really badly hurt. Sickening. Palastine has no army no ammunition, Israel controls what's comes in and out of Gaza/Palestine

How can one human think it's acceptable to do this to kids? Zionist or not this must end. It's very sad.

Evolution = science

Religion = divides humans

where's the humanity in this torture caused by Israel! And when will it stop?

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Always find it strange we sit here preaching what is right and wrong all these acts our own nations have participated in but because it was in our best intrests we see it as right perhaps these other nations see what they are doing as right and they view our attrositys as wrong once there is a world governing set of laws perhaps we can take the high ground till then its just smoke and mirrors

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Cracking topic, good read so far.

I seen videos posted by some friends on FB, these were graphic videos with bombs going off on civilian areas where kids as little as 10 were really badly hurt. Sickening. Palastine has no army no ammunition, Israel controls what's comes in and out of Gaza/Palestine

How can one human think it's acceptable to do this to kids? Zionist or not this must end. It's very sad.

Evolution = science

Religion = divides humans

where's the humanity in this torture caused by Israel! And when will it stop?

"

Unfortunately, there is no humanity in war. It's utterly disgusting that humans can do this to each other in the name of religion or whatever cause they think justifies their actions. As Jack Nicholson said in Mars Attacks, 'Why can we all just...get along?'

This type of thing has been going on since time began however it's the advent of 24 hour, multi-platform news coverage that brings it to our attention instantly and I believe that why we think it's happening more and more. It goes on all over the world as well, not just the middle east.

It's inhumane and barbaric that innocent people, mums and dads, kids and grandparents are being killed in the name of this war. I do kind of understand the position of western governments that, at a much higher level than we'll ever get to know about, have to condemn these type of actions whist maintaining strategic relationships within the areas. Global politics and economics is a hugely delicate balancing act which is why Obama might say he condemns the actions in Syria but still sells them weapons and doesn't commit troops to sort it out. The US, at some level, needs to maintain a strategic relationship with all countries.

Again though, from my own point of view, what happening over there is hideous and beyond contempt!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Always find it strange we sit here preaching what is right and wrong all these acts our own nations have participated in but because it was in our best intrests we see it as right perhaps these other nations see what they are doing as right and they view our attrositys as wrong once there is a world governing set of laws perhaps we can take the high ground till then its just smoke and mirrors "

I consider myself to be a humanitarian and as such don't tend to look at the political aspects of such horrors. Be it the US killing civilians via drone strikes in Pakistan, the British carpet bombing Dresden during WW II, the Belgians in Rwanda or the French in Algeria the murder, and that's all it is, of women, children and innocent men is wrong. By not preaching what is wrong and what is right we have allowed the horrors such as the Holocaust and genocide of Bosnian Muslims to occur. Easy to be flippant and sit on the fence...personally my conscience won't allow it!

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"Always find it strange we sit here preaching what is right and wrong all these acts our own nations have participated in but because it was in our best intrests we see it as right perhaps these other nations see what they are doing as right and they view our attrositys as wrong once there is a world governing set of laws perhaps we can take the high ground till then its just smoke and mirrors

I consider myself to be a humanitarian and as such don't tend to look at the political aspects of such horrors. Be it the US killing civilians via drone strikes in Pakistan, the British carpet bombing Dresden during WW II, the Belgians in Rwanda or the French in Algeria the murder, and that's all it is, of women, children and innocent men is wrong. By not preaching what is wrong and what is right we have allowed the horrors such as the Holocaust and genocide of Bosnian Muslims to occur. Easy to be flippant and sit on the fence...personally my conscience won't allow it!"
sorry but in your previous post you do seem to have a political opinion ie the west not reining in isreal who are ethnically clensing the indigenous people. as for that was there not a 48hr notice of hostilitys commencing yes its horrible that innocents are killed and maimed isreal have also called ceasefires adhered to it to be fired upon during this period rightly or wrongly isreal do have a legal claim to this region and they feel justified in their actions this is perhaps the reason the swcurity councils arnt doing much about it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think as long as there is religion power and money there will always be wars .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Always find it strange we sit here preaching what is right and wrong all these acts our own nations have participated in but because it was in our best intrests we see it as right perhaps these other nations see what they are doing as right and they view our attrositys as wrong once there is a world governing set of laws perhaps we can take the high ground till then its just smoke and mirrors

I consider myself to be a humanitarian and as such don't tend to look at the political aspects of such horrors. Be it the US killing civilians via drone strikes in Pakistan, the British carpet bombing Dresden during WW II, the Belgians in Rwanda or the French in Algeria the murder, and that's all it is, of women, children and innocent men is wrong. By not preaching what is wrong and what is right we have allowed the horrors such as the Holocaust and genocide of Bosnian Muslims to occur. Easy to be flippant and sit on the fence...personally my conscience won't allow it!sorry but in your previous post you do seem to have a political opinion ie the west not reining in isreal who are ethnically clensing the indigenous people. as for that was there not a 48hr notice of hostilitys commencing yes its horrible that innocents are killed and maimed isreal have also called ceasefires adhered to it to be fired upon during this period rightly or wrongly isreal do have a legal claim to this region and they feel justified in their actions this is perhaps the reason the swcurity councils arnt doing much about it "

I was as vocal in my criticism of Britains involvement in Iraq and assure you I have no axe to grind politically. I'll think you'll find Israel has no legal claim to any of the occupied territories and has broken more United Nations resolutions than any other member state an example being the use of phosphorus bombs against a civilian population. So because there's a nice, polite 48hr prior warning of the intent to commit mass murder that's OK? Once again just to reiterate after the end of the British Mandate in Palestine and the declaration of the state of Israel neither the Gazza Strip nor the West Bank fell within Israels borders....it has no claim legal or otherwise to these territories!

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Your opinion not theirs otherwise why is there hostilitys perhaps look back from isreals side all the way back to bc times it was part of their country off and on from time immemorium

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Your opinion not theirs otherwise why is there hostilitys perhaps look back from isreals side all the way back to bc times it was part of their country off and on from time immemorium "

Israel as a country only came into existence in 1948, before Christian times (which I'm assuming you're referring to) it wasn't exclusively inhabited by people of the Jewish faith. Even the Balfour Declaration of 1917 which gave birth to the concept of a Jewish state acknowledged that the indigenous Palestinians would have to be removed from the land before such a concept as a Jewish homeland could become a reality. Prior to 1948 what do you think the whole area was called? Palestine! The name is a bit of a hint as to who actually are the rightful people of the land!

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

The Jewish people owned it first according to the history books. This is circa 1000 b.c. Then they lost out to the many nations from Babylon to the Romans, but they kept alot of their people there. Then when the Ottoman Empire came into being they're once again bought the land from them. Then did the same thing when the British were in charge of this area. The people who are now called Palestinians were nomads that had no land ............this may be where isreal is coming from swings and roubdabouts as said already isreal has abbided by the rules of engagement in what they see as a legitimate claim the fact that the modern world is steering clear of it shows there is at least some validity to their plight. Who is wrong and who Iis right is all subjective the onething thats definatly wrong Iis wall to wall coverage of the injustice of war and tho only folk we canblame for that Iis ourselves

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you'll find they haven't abided by the rules of engagement (use of phosphorus bombs, deliberate targeting of essential civilian infrastructure such as potable water supply, bombing of UN schools and hospitals) and their response has been completely disproportionate to the "threat" posed to their national security. Hamas launching rockets into Israel is wrong equally the massacre, because that's what it is, of Palestinian civilians is inexcusable and unjustifiable. Israel has brought a gun to a fist fight!

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

Perhaps read up on it isreal arnt party to protocol 3 and of the 200 shells fired 188 of them were fired into non population dense farmland also the mortars which hit the hospitals and schools were computer guidance fails the evidence of all weapons fired by isreal are open to the un and have always been another point most of the phous bombs used were conventional ie for the smoke element it brings

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've studied conflict for some time and come to one simple conclusion. Some people are idiots. These idiots want what they want and don't give a shit who gets in the way and sadly, there will always be at least one fucking idiot to ruin it for everybody else.

BTW, the people murdering indigenous folk thing is half true - smallpox and syphilis did in more first peoples, Aztecs and Aborogines than any gun or sword.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have read up on it, just because they haven't signed up to the aforementioned protocols doesn't mean that it's not abhorrent and immoral. Israel gets away with what it does due to very powerful lobby groups in Washington DC who have the ear of the White House and more or less write US Foreign Policy in the region. To gain an insight into how liberal thinking Israelis view the treatment of the Palestinian people and the military crimes committed in their name try watching a documentary called "The Generals Son" by Miko Peled the son of one of the Israeli Defence Forces most decorated soldiers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've studied conflict for some time and come to one simple conclusion. Some people are idiots. These idiots want what they want and don't give a shit who gets in the way and sadly, there will always be at least one fucking idiot to ruin it for everybody else.

BTW, the people murdering indigenous folk thing is half true - smallpox and syphilis did in more first peoples, Aztecs and Aborogines than any gun or sword.

"

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

In anticipating wars and conflicts, the assassination of a small number of wormongers would save the lives of millions.

That does not apply with Israel, however; there is a majority consensus among their settler population of the jewish people's entitlement to occupy an ever-expanding territory, even if it means the ethnic cleansing of the legal owners.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In anticipating wars and conflicts, the assassination of a small number of wormongers would save the lives of millions.

That does not apply with Israel, however; there is a majority consensus among their settler population of the jewish people's entitlement to occupy an ever-expanding territory, even if it means the ethnic cleansing of the legal owners."

Very succinctly and eloquently put!

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

It is infinitely more immoral to be a warmonger than it is to be a whoremonger.

Let's hear it for the shaggers.

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