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Ukraine

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By *ary_Argyll OP   Man
over a year ago

Argyll

Does anyone on here have knowledge about Ukraine and really know what is going on? Does Russia have a point about Russian leaning citizens in the eastern areas being discriminated against or is this just an excuse? Wondering if we are only getting one side of the issue from our media.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Does anyone on here have knowledge about Ukraine and really know what is going on? Does Russia have a point about Russian leaning citizens in the eastern areas being discriminated against or is this just an excuse? Wondering if we are only getting one side of the issue from our media."
remember Yugoslavia...rawanda ...started just like Ukraine ..can only end bad no matter what the rights or wrong

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By *ary_Argyll OP   Man
over a year ago

Argyll

Absolutely agree but would be good to know the real facts since US and EU are doing a lot of finger pointing.

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By *ootlover456Man
over a year ago

Paisley

in very brief general facts. a majority of I think eastern Ukraine voted to go back to being under control of Russia as they were years ago . America refuses to acknowledge this fair non pressured vote and threatened Russia to get out. Russia refused. murica and Eu started threatening Vladimir Putin that they would sanction Russia. Putin kinda said moan then mate. America said awrite... not too long ago it was reported they nearly started bombing each other over it. but an aeroplane suddenly went missing that day and it wasn't overly reported in media cause for days it was all missing flight. everyone look this way don't look at Ukraine find the aeroplane. oh and quite funny bit. Obama Asked Putin Live whats he gonna do if he gets Ukraine. Putin responded with.. well Alaska was Russian once too which hey . I respected as a pretty ballsy thing to say to murica. so um yeah. in very very brief I think that's about it

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By *ootlover456Man
over a year ago

Paisley

its also been stated that a recent revolution in Ukraine that ousted the pro Russian leader was funder by America to destabilise the Russian influence over country. in retailiation to that revolution. Russian forces began to gradually take control of the Crimean peninsula. , the Crimean parliament who were pro Russian voted to dismiss the Crimean government, replace its Prime Minister and to call a referendum on Crimea's autonomy A referendum on whether to join Russia had an official turnout of 83% and resulted in a 96.77% (Crimea) and 95.6% (Sevastopol) affirmative vote but has been condemned by the EU, the US, officials as contrary to international law

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By *rebor601cplCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh

USA ,are basically wanting control ,they destabilized the country ,as they have everywhere ,control of the Caspian sea gas ,ect ,did you know a cpl of days after the elected pro Russian minister went into hiding ,a American fracking company signed a 10million pound deal for rights to frack in the Ukraine, all about money ,again

The west has really has lost moral high ground over the last 20yesrs .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who gives a toss. Let them get on with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

US now in Poland on 'training' and not to much being mentioned about it on the news. Seen a brief mention twice and always be about 0530. Certainly worries me. Next step will be Cameron looking for his election winner and having the UK joining them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

*too much

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Who gives a toss. Let them get on with it. "
you mean before a coalition peacekeeping force ends up there and more British soldiers come home disableD...

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By *horstrollMan
over a year ago

Caprona


"Who gives a toss. Let them get on with it. you mean before a coalition peacekeeping force ends up there and more British soldiers come home disableD... "

Armies go where their Governments choose. The bear may look strong yet it is pure bluff.

Senior Russian Commanders were junior officers 25 years ago. Long memories of Western backed irregulars, breed healthy caution for ground warfare.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"Who gives a toss. Let them get on with it. you mean before a coalition peacekeeping force ends up there and more British soldiers come home disableD...

Armies go where their Governments choose. The bear may look strong yet it is pure bluff.

Senior Russian Commanders were junior officers 25 years ago. Long memories of Western backed irregulars, breed healthy caution for ground warfare."
pmsl the bear may be weak but no where near as weak as the british lion..............sorry clawless cat we dont even supply our troops with decent clothing far less fighting equipment but your right an army goes where its govt sends it and its us the people who are supposed to tell the govt what we want

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By *ootlover456Man
over a year ago

Paisley


"

The west has really has lost moral high ground over the last 20yesrs ."

when did they ever have it.?

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

. it usually rains in the UK so no big deal. . .

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By *ary_Argyll OP   Man
over a year ago

Argyll

What on earth has rain got to do with it? Is the joke if we lose all the high ground we'll get more flooding?

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire


"What on earth has rain got to do with it? Is the joke if we lose all the high ground we'll get more flooding?"
. .UK rain...never mind

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"in very brief general facts. a majority of I think eastern Ukraine voted to go back to being under control of Russia as they were years ago . "

Which vote was this then?

Also, it could be argued that this is all about the Russian economy being in dire straits and Mr. Putin wanting to take peoples minds off it. There is nothing like winning a good war to cover up problems at home.

Putin knows that the west really will not take military action over the Ukraine nor can Europe wean itself of Russian fossil fuel so quickly.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

Lots of Russian sabre rattling and they know they can get away with doing what they want. This is what happens when there's a weak president in the White House.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A few of the counties that border Russia are worried about Putin and are increasing their defence budgets while the UK cuts theirs to fund tax cuts for the wealthy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Imo from what I've watched and read is, Ukraine was given back by russia after the cold war, that wasn't the problem, in Ukraine, America has been supporting a group of extremists who wish to overthrow the government, putin seen this and as the government wasn't strong enough to stop the corruption from the inside, putin has assumed control until they can deal with the problem and create stability, before handing the reins back over, America as usual up to their dirty tricks, but they have bit off more than they can chew with mad vlad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think some of the contributors to this thread are blinkered.

the problems in Ukraine are largely due to corruption in terms of both finance and power, something we have seen all over the globe.

Its not simply a case of the Russians are doing wrong or that the Americans are doing wrong. They are both doing wrong as are many other governments with an interest in the region.

leave Ukraine to the Ukrainians.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was in Ukraine just before the uprising and was working abroad with Ukrainians while it was happening. While I detest the American double standards the basic facts are as thus, the original Ukranian PM rejected his peoples choices of closer ties with the EU and opted for closer ties with Russia. The people rose against him. The Russians sent in special operations units to attack the protesters. During the soviet times the Russians re-settled Russian citizens through-out the USSR. A lot were settled in Crimea, which was part of the Ukraine. The Ukranian government had an agreement to let the Russians have a naval base there, much the same as we did in Dunoon with the Americans. The Russians used this as a base in which to incite the Russian speaking minority and sent in armed troops. This is the start of Russian expansionism as they will try to take lands in other former soviet states in the baltics and Balkans and once again the west will talk and complain and do nothing except a few meaningless sanctions because they want Russian oil.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Remember 1939. Didn't Hitler use some of the same arguments when he annexed Austria, Alsace-Loraine and just before he invaded Poland. This needs to be checked before it goes any further. Russia have already stated to probe NATO defences, jets scrambled from RAF Leuchars to intercept a Russian bear reconnaissance aircraft and HMS Dragon being despatched to intercept a Russian Destroyer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think we should just step back and let Russia and Ukraine sort it out it's there country Russia has never been happy about the break up of the old communist block

If Ukraine holds a legal vote to rejoin mother Russia then that's the end of it

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By *ary_Argyll OP   Man
over a year ago

Argyll

Worth reading phantom lovers post a few back as it seems he does have direct experience of country - I do not hence was interested to hear from anyone who really did know what was going on. Just hope it does not escalate further as all sides seem to be upping the ante.

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By *horstrollMan
over a year ago

Caprona


"Who gives a toss. Let them get on with it. you mean before a coalition peacekeeping force ends up there and more British soldiers come home disableD...

Armies go where their Governments choose. The bear may look strong yet it is pure bluff.

Senior Russian Commanders were junior officers 25 years ago. Long memories of Western backed irregulars, breed healthy caution for ground warfare.pmsl the bear may be weak but no where near as weak as the british lion..............sorry clawless cat we dont even supply our troops with decent clothing far less fighting equipment but your right an army goes where its govt sends it and its us the people who are supposed to tell the govt what we want "

You may wish to look at what todays Lion actually does, plenty of fab members have been aborad, the alst few years. The peoples representives(mp) can only change policy, if the commons vote a majority.

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By *rebor601cplCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh


"Remember 1939. Didn't Hitler use some of the same arguments when he annexed Austria, Alsace-Loraine and just before he invaded Poland. This needs to be checked before it goes any further. Russia have already stated to probe NATO defences, jets scrambled from RAF Leuchars to intercept a Russian bear reconnaissance aircraft and HMS Dragon being despatched to intercept a Russian Destroyer."

I'm sure I read that Hitler ,also had backing at the time from a Ukrainian pro Nazi gorverment ,whom help ethnically cleanse Jews ,

So its a real mess ,who to believe !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Hitler ,also had backing at the time from a Ukrainian pro Nazi gorverment ,whom help ethnically cleanse Jews ,

So its a real mess ,who to believe !"

Of all the drivel that's been posted in this thread, this is the worst. Ukrainians were massacred in their millions by the Nazis. I've been to the museum in Kyiv and seen the rebuilt school room where, on the day of their graduation, the kids were sent to the front and all died, the women's 'kid' gloves that were made from the skin of Ukraininan concentration camp internees and the soap that the nazis made from the fat taken from the bodies of those who died in the camps, that was then given to the others to 'clean' themselves. At the end of the war they were not repatriated, but turned out at teh doors of the camps and left to find their own way home.

The MILLIONS of Ukrainians who died fighting the nazis deserve to be remembered in the west, not disrespected like that. Remember how close our government came to siding with the Nazis, too.

Yes, the Americans have an abysmal record for this kind of intervention in other countries,but they do still hold the moral high ground here. What Putin is doing is immoral and against international law. There has been no vote to rejoin Russia, as mentioned, Yanukovitch reneged on the express will of the majority of ukrainians for closer ties with the EU and was ousted for it. despite the presence of hired russian snipers and thugs committing murders of protestors and kidnapping and torturing opposition politicians.

Ukraine's problems are many and deep, but the anti-americans who side with Putin just because they don't like the Americans and who have no actual knowledge of the situation there aren't helping, either.

as for 'Who cares?' apart from the fact that we all should when human and national rights are being violated there are selfish reasons for you to care. What Putin is doing in destabilising the region has a real potential for spiralling out of control, pulling in other surrounding nations and starting a full-on war. Even if he gets away with it in Ukraine, he won't stop there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I was in Ukraine just before the uprising and was working abroad with Ukrainians while it was happening. While I detest the American double standards the basic facts are as thus, the original Ukranian PM rejected his peoples choices of closer ties with the EU and opted for closer ties with Russia. The people rose against him. The Russians sent in special operations units to attack the protesters. During the soviet times the Russians re-settled Russian citizens through-out the USSR. A lot were settled in Crimea, which was part of the Ukraine. The Ukranian government had an agreement to let the Russians have a naval base there, much the same as we did in Dunoon with the Americans. The Russians used this as a base in which to incite the Russian speaking minority and sent in armed troops. This is the start of Russian expansionism as they will try to take lands in other former soviet states in the baltics and Balkans and once again the west will talk and complain and do nothing except a few meaningless sanctions because they want Russian oil."

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