Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Scotland |
| Jump to newest |  |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Hang on...wait....this is politics- hardly anyone votes with an informed choice!" Somewhat true but at least you get to pick what bullshitter you listen to at the ballot box.   | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I think more and more people are starting to actually pay attention and read more. My daughter is well clued up so if I want to know anything, I talk to her! When it first came out when the date was for the vote, I was "yeah whatever" but now I am a definite YES girl! And no rude comments PP lol " My daughter is 10 and although to young to vote she certainly has a good voice on her. It's the topic for discussion at school and her enthusiasm is quite humbling. She's a yes girl as well when it comes to the mock elections on the day at school   | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Last thread closed so lets try again with constructive debate. I feel the tide is turning and all opinion polls show the gap narrowing between the yes and no intentions. Is this down to hard facts or a personality vote between the political leaders ? "to be honest pp i dont pay much attention to polls, there are too many variables that can affect them. where and when the poll is conducted, who the respondents are, are the respondents giving an honest answer. then we have to look at what question gets asked and how its worded. who is conducting the poll and who commissions it, do either of them (or any of the individuals involved) have an agenda that will affect the outcome. On top of this there is the analysis process which in many polls sees a proportion of responses discarded for a number of reasons which vary according to each poll. the end result is that polls while useful to the media and a range of organisations in this case political ones, they should be accompanied by a large pinch of salt. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"From a class of 29 bino I'm taking peer pressure into account as a sort of unofficial back door poll. 3/4 of the class are in the yes camp so my thinking is the voting parents intentions on the day. "interesting the way peer pressure can work 
in one of my classes a couple of weeks ago, the subject of independence reared its head. One of the things i noted was that due to the fierce and vociferous conduct of two pro union members of the class there were at least 6 who have indicated that they are pro independence who kept their heads down.
Lets face it we all have certain human frailties and that includes not wanting to left out or singled out from the group which in turn can result in some going along with the majority so that they dont get a hard time.
There is only one poll that matters in the end, thats the one at the ballot box. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I currently work in and around eastern Europe and it's interesting to see how Scotland is viewed from afar Pretty much everyone I speak to over here is completely bamboozled as to why people would still choose to be freely governed by people they did not elect. What's more confusing to them is that this call all be done peacefully at a ballot box without enduring massacres and torture and debilitating sanctions from the oppressors So in short, the word from Eastern Europe is "no" voters are pure mental!!!" Eastern European's views will be seen through the lens of the history of those nations in the 20th century under Soviet influence and oppression. This bears no relation to the situation here and is why they are confused that there is no violence etc involved. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I currently work in and around eastern Europe and it's interesting to see how Scotland is viewed from afar Pretty much everyone I speak to over here is completely bamboozled as to why people would still choose to be freely governed by people they did not elect. What's more confusing to them is that this call all be done peacefully at a ballot box without enduring massacres and torture and debilitating sanctions from the oppressors So in short, the word from Eastern Europe is "no" voters are pure mental!!! Eastern European's views will be seen through the lens of the history of those nations in the 20th century under Soviet influence and oppression. This bears no relation to the situation here and is why they are confused that there is no violence etc involved." I merely point out views from outsiders looking in | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I currently work in and around eastern Europe and it's interesting to see how Scotland is viewed from afar Pretty much everyone I speak to over here is completely bamboozled as to why people would still choose to be freely governed by people they did not elect. What's more confusing to them is that this call all be done peacefully at a ballot box without enduring massacres and torture and debilitating sanctions from the oppressors So in short, the word from Eastern Europe is "no" voters are pure mental!!! Eastern European's views will be seen through the lens of the history of those nations in the 20th century under Soviet influence and oppression. This bears no relation to the situation here and is why they are confused that there is no violence etc involved. I merely point out views from outsiders looking in" Was just trying to put those views into perspective. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I currently work in and around eastern Europe and it's interesting to see how Scotland is viewed from afar Pretty much everyone I speak to over here is completely bamboozled as to why people would still choose to be freely governed by people they did not elect. What's more confusing to them is that this call all be done peacefully at a ballot box without enduring massacres and torture and debilitating sanctions from the oppressors So in short, the word from Eastern Europe is "no" voters are pure mental!!! Eastern European's views will be seen through the lens of the history of those nations in the 20th century under Soviet influence and oppression. This bears no relation to the situation here and is why they are confused that there is no violence etc involved. I merely point out views from outsiders looking in" in this case im in agreement with dr deep, the views of other european nations should be listened to, no matter what the outcome of the vote is we will be looking for political and economic allies/partners. how they percieve us will play a large part in that. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I currently work in and around eastern Europe and it's interesting to see how Scotland is viewed from afar Pretty much everyone I speak to over here is completely bamboozled as to why people would still choose to be freely governed by people they did not elect. What's more confusing to them is that this call all be done peacefully at a ballot box without enduring massacres and torture and debilitating sanctions from the oppressors So in short, the word from Eastern Europe is "no" voters are pure mental!!! Eastern European's views will be seen through the lens of the history of those nations in the 20th century under Soviet influence and oppression. This bears no relation to the situation here and is why they are confused that there is no violence etc involved. I merely point out views from outsiders looking in Was just trying to put those views into perspective." that would be your own personal perspective | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I currently work in and around eastern Europe and it's interesting to see how Scotland is viewed from afar Pretty much everyone I speak to over here is completely bamboozled as to why people would still choose to be freely governed by people they did not elect. What's more confusing to them is that this call all be done peacefully at a ballot box without enduring massacres and torture and debilitating sanctions from the oppressors So in short, the word from Eastern Europe is "no" voters are pure mental!!! Eastern European's views will be seen through the lens of the history of those nations in the 20th century under Soviet influence and oppression. This bears no relation to the situation here and is why they are confused that there is no violence etc involved. I merely point out views from outsiders looking in Was just trying to put those views into perspective. that would be your own personal perspective" And probably a lot of other people's perspective too! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I currently work in and around eastern Europe and it's interesting to see how Scotland is viewed from afar Pretty much everyone I speak to over here is completely bamboozled as to why people would still choose to be freely governed by people they did not elect. What's more confusing to them is that this call all be done peacefully at a ballot box without enduring massacres and torture and debilitating sanctions from the oppressors So in short, the word from Eastern Europe is "no" voters are pure mental!!! Eastern European's views will be seen through the lens of the history of those nations in the 20th century under Soviet influence and oppression. This bears no relation to the situation here and is why they are confused that there is no violence etc involved. I merely point out views from outsiders looking in Was just trying to put those views into perspective. that would be your own personal perspective And probably a lot of other people's perspective too! "Not in Eastern Europe though | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I currently work in and around eastern Europe and it's interesting to see how Scotland is viewed from afar Pretty much everyone I speak to over here is completely bamboozled as to why people would still choose to be freely governed by people they did not elect. What's more confusing to them is that this call all be done peacefully at a ballot box without enduring massacres and torture and debilitating sanctions from the oppressors So in short, the word from Eastern Europe is "no" voters are pure mental!!! Eastern European's views will be seen through the lens of the history of those nations in the 20th century under Soviet influence and oppression. This bears no relation to the situation here and is why they are confused that there is no violence etc involved. I merely point out views from outsiders looking in Was just trying to put those views into perspective. that would be your own personal perspective" This is possibly why most people avoid these threads and it's the same posters basically posting the same things over and over. And we'll probablly just leave the regulars to it as it's clear that anything in terms of the independence debate is just too touchy a subject for some with deeply entrenched views. To clarify the post I made though, you state it's just my view but I don't think anyone could disagree that the context in which their views are being made are coloured by their history, especially given the fact they seem to be incredulous at the fact that massacres, torture etc aren't involved. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I currently work in and around eastern Europe and it's interesting to see how Scotland is viewed from afar Pretty much everyone I speak to over here is completely bamboozled as to why people would still choose to be freely governed by people they did not elect. What's more confusing to them is that this call all be done peacefully at a ballot box without enduring massacres and torture and debilitating sanctions from the oppressors So in short, the word from Eastern Europe is "no" voters are pure mental!!! Eastern European's views will be seen through the lens of the history of those nations in the 20th century under Soviet influence and oppression. This bears no relation to the situation here and is why they are confused that there is no violence etc involved. I merely point out views from outsiders looking in Was just trying to put those views into perspective. that would be your own personal perspective And probably a lot of other people's perspective too!
Not in Eastern Europe though"It's a shame then that the vote is only open to those living in Scotland isn't it and it is their perspective that will decide if it is a Yes or a No! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I currently work in and around eastern Europe and it's interesting to see how Scotland is viewed from afar Pretty much everyone I speak to over here is completely bamboozled as to why people would still choose to be freely governed by people they did not elect. What's more confusing to them is that this call all be done peacefully at a ballot box without enduring massacres and torture and debilitating sanctions from the oppressors So in short, the word from Eastern Europe is "no" voters are pure mental!!! Eastern European's views will be seen through the lens of the history of those nations in the 20th century under Soviet influence and oppression. This bears no relation to the situation here and is why they are confused that there is no violence etc involved. I merely point out views from outsiders looking in Was just trying to put those views into perspective. that would be your own personal perspective And probably a lot of other people's perspective too!
Not in Eastern Europe though
It's a shame then that the vote is only open to those living in Scotland isn't it and it is their perspective that will decide if it is a Yes or a No! "Just as well i'll have returned home by then to give a resounding YES at the ballot box | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"... that would be your own personal perspective And probably a lot of other people's perspective too!
Not in Eastern Europe though
It's a shame then that the vote is only open to those living in Scotland isn't it and it is their perspective that will decide if it is a Yes or a No!
Just as well I'll have returned home by then to give a resounding YES at the ballot box "You missed the point I was making, buy hey never mind a lot of people are missing the point anyway! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"... that would be your own personal perspective And probably a lot of other people's perspective too!
Not in Eastern Europe though
It's a shame then that the vote is only open to those living in Scotland isn't it and it is their perspective that will decide if it is a Yes or a No!
Just as well I'll have returned home by then to give a resounding YES at the ballot box
You missed the point I was making, buy hey never mind a lot of people are missing the point anyway! "no not missed the point at all...the vote is for the people of Scotland to choose whether to govern themselves and not be governed by people from another country | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"... that would be your own personal perspective And probably a lot of other people's perspective too!
Not in Eastern Europe though
It's a shame then that the vote is only open to those living in Scotland isn't it and it is their perspective that will decide if it is a Yes or a No!
Just as well I'll have returned home by then to give a resounding YES at the ballot box
You missed the point I was making, buy hey never mind a lot of people are missing the point anyway!
no not missed the point at all...the vote is for the people of Scotland to choose whether to govern themselves and not be governed by people from another country"Yup, as suspected, you missed MY point about your post!
Anyway, as another poster has said already too many people have "deeply entrenched views" on this subject and it just goes round and round in circles.
After the vote we'll find out if people listened to the perspective of the Eastern Europeans (or anyone else) or used their own perspective to make up their own mind. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"... that would be your own personal perspective And probably a lot of other people's perspective too!
Not in Eastern Europe though
It's a shame then that the vote is only open to those living in Scotland isn't it and it is their perspective that will decide if it is a Yes or a No!
Just as well I'll have returned home by then to give a resounding YES at the ballot box
You missed the point I was making, buy hey never mind a lot of people are missing the point anyway!
no not missed the point at all...the vote is for the people of Scotland to choose whether to govern themselves and not be governed by people from another country
Yup, as suspected, you missed MY point about your post!
Anyway, as another poster has said already too many people have "deeply entrenched views" on this subject and it just goes round and round in circles.
After the vote we'll find out if people listened to the perspective of the Eastern Europeans (or anyone else) or used their own perspective to make up their own mind. "and as another poster posted...it's interesting to see how we as a country as viewed by others | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I currently work in and around eastern Europe and it's interesting to see how Scotland is viewed from afar Pretty much everyone I speak to over here is completely bamboozled as to why people would still choose to be freely governed by people they did not elect. What's more confusing to them is that this call all be done peacefully at a ballot box without enduring massacres and torture and debilitating sanctions from the oppressors So in short, the word from Eastern Europe is "no" voters are pure mental!!! Eastern European's views will be seen through the lens of the history of those nations in the 20th century under Soviet influence and oppression. This bears no relation to the situation here and is why they are confused that there is no violence etc involved. I merely point out views from outsiders looking in Was just trying to put those views into perspective. that would be your own personal perspective This is possibly why most people avoid these threads and it's the same posters basically posting the same things over and over. And we'll probablly just leave the regulars to it as it's clear that anything in terms of the independence debate is just too touchy a subject for some with deeply entrenched views. To clarify the post I made though, you state it's just my view but I don't think anyone could disagree that the context in which their views are being made are coloured by their history, especially given the fact they seem to be incredulous at the fact that massacres, torture etc aren't involved. " the point being that we are given the opportunity to govern ourselves handed to us on a plate and why any Scottish person would vote against that | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"......... Not in Eastern Europe though
It's a shame then that the vote is only open to those living in Scotland isn't it and it is their perspective that will decide if it is a Yes or a No! "Who else would you include in the franchise? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"......... Not in Eastern Europe though
It's a shame then that the vote is only open to those living in Scotland isn't it and it is their perspective that will decide if it is a Yes or a No!
Who else would you include in the franchise?
"I didn't say I would include anyone else if you read the post correctly! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
Or vote yes. Well yes to what? Let's split up the union. Ok, what happens now? Removal of trident, ok, no seat for scotland on NATO, etc so no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others, the loss of circa 16000 jobs if you take in all ancillaries, SNP say we'll find employment, where?
We'll split economically, from a situation with the bank of englsnd where we have some amount of sway, only to go back cap in hand to ask to join the sterling again, great idea! Clearly hey will not agree to better terms! Oh but big Alex says it'll be fine cos we'll get to set our own tax rates ha!
On defence again, where does Scotland's defence force come from? I'm not talking invasion, just a sensible force capable of backing up emergency services, fishery protection, oil girls protection? That costs money, not just the hardware but wages, setting up an entire new ministry to over see it?
Same with intelligence services
Same with police, fire, ambulance!
Sure we'll get to walk away with a percentage of the last budget, but It won't touch the sides!!
We I'm scotland as a percentage, per head get more money from Westminster than any of the other parts of the union! Hence free prescriptions etc!! Are we going to find a free nhs ?! Salmond big claims about pulling in 4 billion from a quid on a bottle of whisky bahahaha! Great economic policy, 800 million is lost, in scotland per year to fraud, representing 7% of the nhs budget! Ergo, what is the cost of the nhs in scotland ?? Anyone know the answer??
Remember this is the guy that wrote a letter during the banking crisis saying hbos and Halifax were ok!!!!! Would a "free" scotland (intrinsically linked to the Bank of England) be able to soak up an event like that?!
Let's see then hardy yes voters, reply to that as a constructed facts based argument
Xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"... oil girls protection? That costs money, not just the hardware but wages, setting up an entire new ministry to over see it? ... Same with police, fire, ambulance! ...." I'll be first to volunteer for free if we need people for the "oil girls protection" squad I would even apply the oil freely too!
We already have separate Police, Fire and Ambulance Services!
PS - I am in the No camp | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"... oil girls protection? That costs money, not just the hardware but wages, setting up an entire new ministry to over see it? ... Same with police, fire, ambulance! .... I'll be first to volunteer for free if we need people for the "oil girls protection" squad I would even apply the oil freely too!
We already have separate Police, Fire and Ambulance Services!
PS - I am in the No camp "Great post, well done! Your a riot pal! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"... oil girls protection? That costs money, not just the hardware but wages, setting up an entire new ministry to over see it? ... Same with police, fire, ambulance! .... I'll be first to volunteer for free if we need people for the "oil girls protection" squad I would even apply the oil freely too!
We already have separate Police, Fire and Ambulance Services!
PS - I am in the No camp
Great post, well done! Your a riot pal!"Thanks - | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Hahaha this is the best thread ever!!!! I've sad for the last 20 min reading it, not a single post really makes any valid point about policies for either the yes or no camps, just a lot of sword waving and saltire shakin! It should be a resounding no. Salmond is an egotistical, arrogant fool who's in it for the money and the legacy of being the first prime minister of scotland! One poster- the eastern bloc are amazed were gouverned by someone else, really a former soviet, genocidal country can be compared to the british isles?! *****And here's a test, who knows their history? Who created the United Kingdom ??***** So, let's have an actual debate, Are we better sticking with the status quo ? ( in what way poster are we guinea pigs for policy? ) it works, it's proven it works. We can stay happy!
Or vote yes. Well yes to what? Let's split up the union. Ok, what happens now? Removal of trident, ok, no seat for scotland on NATO, etc so no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others, the loss of circa 16000 jobs if you take in all ancillaries, SNP say we'll find employment, where?
We'll split economically, from a situation with the bank of englsnd where we have some amount of sway, only to go back cap in hand to ask to join the sterling again, great idea! Clearly hey will not agree to better terms! Oh but big Alex says it'll be fine cos we'll get to set our own tax rates ha!
On defence again, where does Scotland's defence force come from? I'm not talking invasion, just a sensible force capable of backing up emergency services, fishery protection, oil girls protection? That costs money, not just the hardware but wages, setting up an entire new ministry to over see it?
Same with intelligence services
Same with police, fire, ambulance!
Sure we'll get to walk away with a percentage of the last budget, but It won't touch the sides!!
We I'm scotland as a percentage, per head get more money from Westminster than any of the other parts of the union! Hence free prescriptions etc!! Are we going to find a free nhs ?! Salmond big claims about pulling in 4 billion from a quid on a bottle of whisky bahahaha! Great economic policy, 800 million is lost, in scotland per year to fraud, representing 7% of the nhs budget! Ergo, what is the cost of the nhs in scotland ?? Anyone know the answer??
Remember this is the guy that wrote a letter during the banking crisis saying hbos and Halifax were ok!!!!! Would a "free" scotland (intrinsically linked to the Bank of England) be able to soak up an event like that?!
Let's see then hardy yes voters, reply to that as a constructed facts based argument
Xx "A fact based argument? You haven't got the basics of the economics right so good start! You are suffering for a sadly common misconception that all out money comes from Westminster without actually going the next step to ask where Westminster gets that money from in the first place. They get it from us. And we pay more than we get back! So to answer a lot of what you have posted - we would pay for it the same way we do now. But we'd have more. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Hahaha this is the best thread ever!!!! I've sad for the last 20 min reading it, not a single post really makes any valid point about policies for either the yes or no camps, just a lot of sword waving and saltire shakin! It should be a resounding no. Salmond is an egotistical, arrogant fool who's in it for the money and the legacy of being the first prime minister of scotland! One poster- the eastern bloc are amazed were gouverned by someone else, really a former soviet, genocidal country can be compared to the british isles?! *****And here's a test, who knows their history? Who created the United Kingdom ??***** So, let's have an actual debate, Are we better sticking with the status quo ? ( in what way poster are we guinea pigs for policy? ) it works, it's proven it works. We can stay happy!
Or vote yes. Well yes to what? Let's split up the union. Ok, what happens now? Removal of trident, ok, no seat for scotland on NATO, etc so no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others, the loss of circa 16000 jobs if you take in all ancillaries, SNP say we'll find employment, where?
We'll split economically, from a situation with the bank of englsnd where we have some amount of sway, only to go back cap in hand to ask to join the sterling again, great idea! Clearly hey will not agree to better terms! Oh but big Alex says it'll be fine cos we'll get to set our own tax rates ha!
On defence again, where does Scotland's defence force come from? I'm not talking invasion, just a sensible force capable of backing up emergency services, fishery protection, oil girls protection? That costs money, not just the hardware but wages, setting up an entire new ministry to over see it?
Same with intelligence services
Same with police, fire, ambulance!
Sure we'll get to walk away with a percentage of the last budget, but It won't touch the sides!!
We I'm scotland as a percentage, per head get more money from Westminster than any of the other parts of the union! Hence free prescriptions etc!! Are we going to find a free nhs ?! Salmond big claims about pulling in 4 billion from a quid on a bottle of whisky bahahaha! Great economic policy, 800 million is lost, in scotland per year to fraud, representing 7% of the nhs budget! Ergo, what is the cost of the nhs in scotland ?? Anyone know the answer??
Remember this is the guy that wrote a letter during the banking crisis saying hbos and Halifax were ok!!!!! Would a "free" scotland (intrinsically linked to the Bank of England) be able to soak up an event like that?!
Let's see then hardy yes voters, reply to that as a constructed facts based argument
Xx "NATO has 28 members of those 3 have nuclear weapons (USA, UK, France) 5 others allow nuclear weapons to be deployed or stored on their territory (Belgium, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Netherlands) leaving 20 non nuclear nations. now do you really think given those facts that being a non nuclear nation prevents NATO membership ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"............ NATO has 28 members of those 3 have nuclear weapons (USA, UK, France) 5 others allow nuclear weapons to be deployed or stored on their territory (Belgium, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Netherlands) leaving 20 non nuclear nations. now do you really think given those facts that being a non nuclear nation prevents NATO membership ?" That'll be a decision for the NATO members. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Hahaha this is the best thread ever!!!! I've sad for the last 20 min reading it, not a single post really makes any valid point about policies for either the yes or no camps, just a lot of sword waving and saltire shakin! It should be a resounding no. Salmond is an egotistical, arrogant fool who's in it for the money and the legacy of being the first prime minister of scotland! One poster- the eastern bloc are amazed were gouverned by someone else, really a former soviet, genocidal country can be compared to the british isles?! *****And here's a test, who knows their history? Who created the United Kingdom ??***** So, let's have an actual debate, Are we better sticking with the status quo ? ( in what way poster are we guinea pigs for policy? ) it works, it's proven it works. We can stay happy!
Or vote yes. Well yes to what? Let's split up the union. Ok, what happens now? Removal of trident, ok, no seat for scotland on NATO, etc so no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others, the loss of circa 16000 jobs if you take in all ancillaries, SNP say we'll find employment, where?
We'll split economically, from a situation with the bank of englsnd where we have some amount of sway, only to go back cap in hand to ask to join the sterling again, great idea! Clearly hey will not agree to better terms! Oh but big Alex says it'll be fine cos we'll get to set our own tax rates ha!
On defence again, where does Scotland's defence force come from? I'm not talking invasion, just a sensible force capable of backing up emergency services, fishery protection, oil girls protection? That costs money, not just the hardware but wages, setting up an entire new ministry to over see it?
Same with intelligence services
Same with police, fire, ambulance!
Sure we'll get to walk away with a percentage of the last budget, but It won't touch the sides!!
We I'm scotland as a percentage, per head get more money from Westminster than any of the other parts of the union! Hence free prescriptions etc!! Are we going to find a free nhs ?! Salmond big claims about pulling in 4 billion from a quid on a bottle of whisky bahahaha! Great economic policy, 800 million is lost, in scotland per year to fraud, representing 7% of the nhs budget! Ergo, what is the cost of the nhs in scotland ?? Anyone know the answer??
Remember this is the guy that wrote a letter during the banking crisis saying hbos and Halifax were ok!!!!! Would a "free" scotland (intrinsically linked to the Bank of England) be able to soak up an event like that?!
Let's see then hardy yes voters, reply to that as a constructed facts based argument
Xx
NATO has 28 members of those 3 have nuclear weapons (USA, UK, France) 5 others allow nuclear weapons to be deployed or stored on their territory (Belgium, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Netherlands) leaving 20 non nuclear nations.
now do you really think given those facts that being a non nuclear nation prevents NATO membership ?"Try and be constructive, no I agree it's doesn't prevent it, however, look at the list of members, scotland is not getting a look in! That is patently obvious! What it will do is remove the ability to have a voice of reason heard and do some good! There is no valid reason to be anti nuclear if you know anything about it! Also, that is one small point in a much bigger argument! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others " Can I ask, see countries like Austria, Iceland, Ireland, Sweden, Norway etc. how do they cope? With being small etc and not on the big stage etc. I only ask cos they are 5 of the richest countries in the OECD. Scotland would be 8th by the way. UK would be 16th. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others Can I ask, see countries like Austria, Iceland, Ireland, Sweden, Norway etc. how do they cope? With being small etc and not on the big stage etc. I only ask cos they are 5 of the richest countries in the OECD. Scotland would be 8th by the way. UK would be 16th. " pmsl 8th have a look around you seen better standards of living in brazils favelas  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others Can I ask, see countries like Austria, Iceland, Ireland, Sweden, Norway etc. how do they cope? With being small etc and not on the big stage etc. I only ask cos they are 5 of the richest countries in the OECD. Scotland would be 8th by the way. UK would be 16th. " What's the average tax rate in these countries, have a look, there's your answer! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others Can I ask, see countries like Austria, Iceland, Ireland, Sweden, Norway etc. how do they cope? With being small etc and not on the big stage etc. I only ask cos they are 5 of the richest countries in the OECD. Scotland would be 8th by the way. UK would be 16th. " House! A post of my (wet) dreams there. Thanks. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others Can I ask, see countries like Austria, Iceland, Ireland, Sweden, Norway etc. how do they cope? With being small etc and not on the big stage etc. I only ask cos they are 5 of the richest countries in the OECD. Scotland would be 8th by the way. UK would be 16th. What's the average tax rate in these countries, have a look, there's your answer! " And how much is a beer? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others Can I ask, see countries like Austria, Iceland, Ireland, Sweden, Norway etc. how do they cope? With being small etc and not on the big stage etc. I only ask cos they are 5 of the richest countries in the OECD. Scotland would be 8th by the way. UK would be 16th. pmsl 8th have a look around you seen better standards of living in brazils favelas "Well that is a fact. Check out the figures yourself. And ask yourself why, in the current system, well Scotland does look the way it does. Alarm bells should be ringing! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Sailor....please see this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W8cKHcZn60&feature=youtu.be There is also a saying...mainly directed at Politicians..." They wont see the Logic in your point...if their wages are dependant on it " Its great you have a good job and Thanks for protecting us ! Its very much appreciated ! But please see the Facts on the link I just sent. It explains How we can still have Many things that we currently have and more...and be Governed by ourselves. Time Scotland became Masters of their Own destiny....and not by a bunch of Oxbridge Millionaires who have never had Real job in their lives !" Fair point poorly made I'm a nuclear engineer, my point is not based on who my paymaster is, indeed I could earn more money with my directly transferable skills in the civilian nuclear industry or in oil and gas. Really, destiny!! Haha calm it mr wallace! Sure, big Alex is a working man, did an apprenticeship in the yards! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" And how much is a beer?" Very affordable actually. Wages tend to be higher. Have you lived in any off these countries? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".......... Really, destiny!! Haha calm it mr wallace! Sure, big Alex is a working man, did an apprenticeship in the yards!" He even had to marry his boss to get promotion. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" And how much is a beer? Very affordable actually. Wages tend to be higher. Have you lived in any off these countries?" And taxes MUCH higher. Have you actually lived in the real world? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" And how much is a beer? Very affordable actually. Wages tend to be higher. Have you lived in any off these countries? And taxes MUCH higher. Have you actually lived in the real world?" Well, yes I have. Lived and worked abroad. Lived in countries that are doing a lot better than Scotland, despite being similar size and location. Better economically and better in terms of collective confidence. No chips on shoulder, no defeatist mentality and no cringe - something which you personify. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others Can I ask, see countries like Austria, Iceland, Ireland, Sweden, Norway etc. how do they cope? With being small etc and not on the big stage etc. I only ask cos they are 5 of the richest countries in the OECD. Scotland would be 8th by the way. UK would be 16th. pmsl 8th have a look around you seen better standards of living in brazils favelas
Well that is a fact. Check out the figures yourself. And ask yourself why, in the current system, well Scotland does look the way it does.
Alarm bells should be ringing!"as stated beforehand figures are easy to dress up and adjust to what you would like them to say when you see that the average person on the street is living under the breadline states we aint no rich country but hey fling figures i will judge by what i see with my eyes | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"as stated beforehand figures are easy to dress up and adjust to what you would like them to say when you see that the average person on the street is living under the breadline states we aint no rich country but hey fling figures i will judge by what i see with my eyes "Sure thing. I'll do my best anyway. We pay 9.9% of all tax paid in the uk but we get 9.3% in spending back. We lose a fortune each year by the current system. (I suppose one way to look at it is; if we cost the cruel conservatives money, why are they so keen to keep us? Charity? Nostalgia? This is the Tories we are talking about!! They need our money) The reason Scotland looks the way it looks Is because of inequality, not poverty. Go to London. Have a look around. We are all in this together so why the difference? Because under the current system policy looks after the well off and the elite. The union is supposed to be a partnership. But it is the 4th most unequal society in the world. We need to get out. Figures are from GERS and OECD by the way. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Hahaha this is the best thread ever!!!! I've sad for the last 20 min reading it, not a single post really makes any valid point about policies for either the yes or no camps, just a lot of sword waving and saltire shakin! It should be a resounding no. Salmond is an egotistical, arrogant fool who's in it for the money and the legacy of being the first prime minister of scotland! One poster- the eastern bloc are amazed were gouverned by someone else, really a former soviet, genocidal country can be compared to the british isles?! *****And here's a test, who knows their history? Who created the United Kingdom ??***** So, let's have an actual debate, Are we better sticking with the status quo ? ( in what way poster are we guinea pigs for policy? ) it works, it's proven it works. We can stay happy!
Or vote yes. Well yes to what? Let's split up the union. Ok, what happens now? Removal of trident, ok, no seat for scotland on NATO, etc so no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others, the loss of circa 16000 jobs if you take in all ancillaries, SNP say we'll find employment, where?
We'll split economically, from a situation with the bank of englsnd where we have some amount of sway, only to go back cap in hand to ask to join the sterling again, great idea! Clearly hey will not agree to better terms! Oh but big Alex says it'll be fine cos we'll get to set our own tax rates ha!
On defence again, where does Scotland's defence force come from? I'm not talking invasion, just a sensible force capable of backing up emergency services, fishery protection, oil girls protection? That costs money, not just the hardware but wages, setting up an entire new ministry to over see it?
Same with intelligence services
Same with police, fire, ambulance!
Sure we'll get to walk away with a percentage of the last budget, but It won't touch the sides!!
We I'm scotland as a percentage, per head get more money from Westminster than any of the other parts of the union! Hence free prescriptions etc!! Are we going to find a free nhs ?! Salmond big claims about pulling in 4 billion from a quid on a bottle of whisky bahahaha! Great economic policy, 800 million is lost, in scotland per year to fraud, representing 7% of the nhs budget! Ergo, what is the cost of the nhs in scotland ?? Anyone know the answer??
Remember this is the guy that wrote a letter during the banking crisis saying hbos and Halifax were ok!!!!! Would a "free" scotland (intrinsically linked to the Bank of England) be able to soak up an event like that?!
Let's see then hardy yes voters, reply to that as a constructed facts based argument
Xx
NATO has 28 members of those 3 have nuclear weapons (USA, UK, France) 5 others allow nuclear weapons to be deployed or stored on their territory (Belgium, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Netherlands) leaving 20 non nuclear nations.
now do you really think given those facts that being a non nuclear nation prevents NATO membership ?
Try and be constructive, no I agree it's doesn't prevent it, however, look at the list of members, scotland is not getting a look in! That is patently obvious!
What it will do is remove the ability to have a voice of reason heard and do some good!
There is no valid reason to be anti nuclear if you know anything about it!
Also, that is one small point in a much bigger argument!
"With all due respect its an argument set out in your post that removal of trident would result in being left out of nato. as for there being no reason for being anti nuclear, i give you this logic: nuclear nations spend billions on weapons of mass destruction with neither the desire or intention to use them. Money well spent ? Add to that the hypocrasy of nuclear nations who seek to dictate to other nations over the development of nuclear weapons of their own !! No thanks, i will continue to say no to wmd's. ps im sure that the reason we were given for invading iraq was the removal of wmd's. I smell more hypocrasy from westminster. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".......... Really, destiny!! Haha calm it mr wallace! Sure, big Alex is a working man, did an apprenticeship in the yards! He even had to marry his boss to get promotion." you still cant resist singling people out to have a personal dig at them can you _nny. great advert for better together and the no campaign. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Hahaha this is the best thread ever!!!! I've sad for the last 20 min reading it, not a single post really makes any valid point about policies for either the yes or no camps, just a lot of sword waving and saltire shakin! It should be a resounding no. Salmond is an egotistical, arrogant fool who's in it for the money and the legacy of being the first prime minister of scotland! One poster- the eastern bloc are amazed were gouverned by someone else, really a former soviet, genocidal country can be compared to the british isles?! *****And here's a test, who knows their history? Who created the United Kingdom ??***** So, let's have an actual debate, Are we better sticking with the status quo ? ( in what way poster are we guinea pigs for policy? ) it works, it's proven it works. We can stay happy!
Or vote yes. Well yes to what? Let's split up the union. Ok, what happens now? Removal of trident, ok, no seat for scotland on NATO, etc so no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others, the loss of circa 16000 jobs if you take in all ancillaries, SNP say we'll find employment, where?
We'll split economically, from a situation with the bank of englsnd where we have some amount of sway, only to go back cap in hand to ask to join the sterling again, great idea! Clearly hey will not agree to better terms! Oh but big Alex says it'll be fine cos we'll get to set our own tax rates ha!
On defence again, where does Scotland's defence force come from? I'm not talking invasion, just a sensible force capable of backing up emergency services, fishery protection, oil girls protection? That costs money, not just the hardware but wages, setting up an entire new ministry to over see it?
Same with intelligence services
Same with police, fire, ambulance!
Sure we'll get to walk away with a percentage of the last budget, but It won't touch the sides!!
We I'm scotland as a percentage, per head get more money from Westminster than any of the other parts of the union! Hence free prescriptions etc!! Are we going to find a free nhs ?! Salmond big claims about pulling in 4 billion from a quid on a bottle of whisky bahahaha! Great economic policy, 800 million is lost, in scotland per year to fraud, representing 7% of the nhs budget! Ergo, what is the cost of the nhs in scotland ?? Anyone know the answer??
Remember this is the guy that wrote a letter during the banking crisis saying hbos and Halifax were ok!!!!! Would a "free" scotland (intrinsically linked to the Bank of England) be able to soak up an event like that?!
Let's see then hardy yes voters, reply to that as a constructed facts based argument
Xx
NATO has 28 members of those 3 have nuclear weapons (USA, UK, France) 5 others allow nuclear weapons to be deployed or stored on their territory (Belgium, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Netherlands) leaving 20 non nuclear nations.
now do you really think given those facts that being a non nuclear nation prevents NATO membership ?
Try and be constructive, no I agree it's doesn't prevent it, however, look at the list of members, scotland is not getting a look in! That is patently obvious!
What it will do is remove the ability to have a voice of reason heard and do some good!
There is no valid reason to be anti nuclear if you know anything about it!
Also, that is one small point in a much bigger argument!
With all due respect its an argument set out in your post that removal of trident would result in being left out of nato.
as for there being no reason for being anti nuclear, i give you this logic: nuclear nations spend billions on weapons of mass destruction with neither the desire or intention to use them. Money well spent ?
Add to that the hypocrasy of nuclear nations who seek to dictate to other nations over the development of nuclear weapons of their own !!
No thanks, i will continue to say no to wmd's.
ps im sure that the reason we were given for invading iraq was the removal of wmd's. I smell more hypocrasy from westminster."Haha really, how is protecting your own nations interests hypocrasy ?! You'll be wanting a one world, let's all hug government next! They are not a weapon intended for use but a deterrent to other nations that safeguard the country. This is fact. They are expensive to build and maintain, but how expensive? Do you know ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"as stated beforehand figures are easy to dress up and adjust to what you would like them to say when you see that the average person on the street is living under the breadline states we aint no rich country but hey fling figures i will judge by what i see with my eyes
Sure thing. I'll do my best anyway.
We pay 9.9% of all tax paid in the uk but we get 9.3% in spending back. We lose a fortune each year by the current system. (I suppose one way to look at it is; if we cost the cruel conservatives money, why are they so keen to keep us? Charity? Nostalgia? This is the Tories we are talking about!! They need our money)
The reason Scotland looks the way it looks Is because of inequality, not poverty. Go to London. Have a look around. We are all in this together so why the difference? Because under the current system policy looks after the well off and the elite. The union is supposed to be a partnership. But it is the 4th most unequal society in the world. We need to get out.
Figures are from GERS and OECD by the way. "taken from bbc news tells a slightly diffrent story..... They found that 41% of Glasgow households were living in poverty, the city was suffering population decline and unskilled worker numbers were up. could have placed more on but not really required | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".......... Really, destiny!! Haha calm it mr wallace! Sure, big Alex is a working man, did an apprenticeship in the yards! He even had to marry his boss to get promotion. you still cant resist singling people out to have a personal dig at them can you _nny. great advert for better together and the no campaign." Not at all. I'll happily slag off Bawface Neil, Mike Russell (a man whose ambition is to die in his own arms) and many others. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"as stated beforehand figures are easy to dress up and adjust to what you would like them to say when you see that the average person on the street is living under the breadline states we aint no rich country but hey fling figures i will judge by what i see with my eyes
Sure thing. I'll do my best anyway.
We pay 9.9% of all tax paid in the uk but we get 9.3% in spending back. We lose a fortune each year by the current system. (I suppose one way to look at it is; if we cost the cruel conservatives money, why are they so keen to keep us? Charity? Nostalgia? This is the Tories we are talking about!! They need our money)
The reason Scotland looks the way it looks Is because of inequality, not poverty. Go to London. Have a look around. We are all in this together so why the difference? Because under the current system policy looks after the well off and the elite. The union is supposed to be a partnership. But it is the 4th most unequal society in the world. We need to get out.
Figures are from GERS and OECD by the way. taken from bbc news tells a slightly diffrent story..... They found that 41% of Glasgow households were living in poverty, the city was suffering population decline and unskilled worker numbers were up. could have placed more on but not really required "Whilst Separation would close Fairfields and Scotstoun. How many more jobs gone? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" taken from bbc news tells a slightly diffrent story..... They found that 41% of Glasgow households were living in poverty, the city was suffering population decline and unskilled worker numbers were up. could have placed more on but not really required " How is that a different story? We seem to be on the same page here. Scotland is in a lot of shit, that is for sure. But we are being told we are "better together" and one big happy family. The point is Scotland would be far richer than the rest of the uk post independence. So we can start keeping out money and spending it where we need to. Your taxes pay for the millennium dome, the Olympics, the high speed rail link from London to Birmingham etc etc. why about Scotland? We have huge tourist industry, huge food and drink industry, huge oil and gas industry, construction industry worth billions... Have a look at the financial times article of last week about our finances. At the end if the day, we are not better together. We can do much better than this. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"If you are supporting trident as a reason to vote no them, whilst I respect your decision, I think you will find yourself in the minority there. There is no place in the world for such weapons and it's a disgrace that we went to war due to WMD that didn't exist when we ourselves have them. Indeed they will never be fired. If they are, we're done anyway. Which all just makes it more obscene. " It's a fair, but naive point, whilst they won't be, they allow the nation a big voice and say in matters they otherwise wouldn't be involved in! If there was mutual disarmament then fine, there won't be . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Hahaha this is the best thread ever!!!! I've sad for the last 20 min reading it, not a single post really makes any valid point about policies for either the yes or no camps, just a lot of sword waving and saltire shakin! It should be a resounding no. Salmond is an egotistical, arrogant fool who's in it for the money and the legacy of being the first prime minister of scotland! One poster- the eastern bloc are amazed were gouverned by someone else, really a former soviet, genocidal country can be compared to the british isles?! *****And here's a test, who knows their history? Who created the United Kingdom ??***** So, let's have an actual debate, Are we better sticking with the status quo ? ( in what way poster are we guinea pigs for policy? ) it works, it's proven it works. We can stay happy!
Or vote yes. Well yes to what? Let's split up the union. Ok, what happens now? Removal of trident, ok, no seat for scotland on NATO, etc so no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others, the loss of circa 16000 jobs if you take in all ancillaries, SNP say we'll find employment, where?
We'll split economically, from a situation with the bank of englsnd where we have some amount of sway, only to go back cap in hand to ask to join the sterling again, great idea! Clearly hey will not agree to better terms! Oh but big Alex says it'll be fine cos we'll get to set our own tax rates ha!
On defence again, where does Scotland's defence force come from? I'm not talking invasion, just a sensible force capable of backing up emergency services, fishery protection, oil girls protection? That costs money, not just the hardware but wages, setting up an entire new ministry to over see it?
Same with intelligence services
Same with police, fire, ambulance!
Sure we'll get to walk away with a percentage of the last budget, but It won't touch the sides!!
We I'm scotland as a percentage, per head get more money from Westminster than any of the other parts of the union! Hence free prescriptions etc!! Are we going to find a free nhs ?! Salmond big claims about pulling in 4 billion from a quid on a bottle of whisky bahahaha! Great economic policy, 800 million is lost, in scotland per year to fraud, representing 7% of the nhs budget! Ergo, what is the cost of the nhs in scotland ?? Anyone know the answer??
Remember this is the guy that wrote a letter during the banking crisis saying hbos and Halifax were ok!!!!! Would a "free" scotland (intrinsically linked to the Bank of England) be able to soak up an event like that?!
Let's see then hardy yes voters, reply to that as a constructed facts based argument
Xx
NATO has 28 members of those 3 have nuclear weapons (USA, UK, France) 5 others allow nuclear weapons to be deployed or stored on their territory (Belgium, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Netherlands) leaving 20 non nuclear nations.
now do you really think given those facts that being a non nuclear nation prevents NATO membership ?
Try and be constructive, no I agree it's doesn't prevent it, however, look at the list of members, scotland is not getting a look in! That is patently obvious!
What it will do is remove the ability to have a voice of reason heard and do some good!
There is no valid reason to be anti nuclear if you know anything about it!
Also, that is one small point in a much bigger argument!
With all due respect its an argument set out in your post that removal of trident would result in being left out of nato.
as for there being no reason for being anti nuclear, i give you this logic: nuclear nations spend billions on weapons of mass destruction with neither the desire or intention to use them. Money well spent ?
Add to that the hypocrasy of nuclear nations who seek to dictate to other nations over the development of nuclear weapons of their own !!
No thanks, i will continue to say no to wmd's.
ps im sure that the reason we were given for invading iraq was the removal of wmd's. I smell more hypocrasy from westminster.
Haha really, how is protecting your own nations interests hypocrasy ?! You'll be wanting a one world, let's all hug government next!
They are not a weapon intended for use but a deterrent to other nations that safeguard the country. This is fact.
They are expensive to build and maintain, but how expensive? Do you know ?" | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" taken from bbc news tells a slightly diffrent story..... They found that 41% of Glasgow households were living in poverty, the city was suffering population decline and unskilled worker numbers were up. could have placed more on but not really required How is that a different story? We seem to be on the same page here. Scotland is in a lot of shit, that is for sure. But we are being told we are "better together" and one big happy family. The point is Scotland would be far richer than the rest of the uk post independence. So we can start keeping out money and spending it where we need to. Your taxes pay for the millennium dome, the Olympics, the high speed rail link from London to Birmingham etc etc. why about Scotland? We have huge tourist industry, huge food and drink industry, huge oil and gas industry, construction industry worth billions... Have a look at the financial times article of last week about our finances. At the end if the day, we are not better together. We can do much better than this. " there in lies the differnce its interpretation for my money we have been stripped bare and to try and stand alone now would mean yrs of even more hardships i would love an independant scotland but for my money it has to be a gradual process of building ourselves up before taking massive steps that we simply cant take as our country stands | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and see with my eyes wasnt asking for figures i ment what i see in everyday life not spreadsheets that can be dressed up to say anything " Sorry but figures don't lie. If we live in a house and you pay £100 a week I me and I give you £50 back and call you a subsidy junky who lives off me, there is something wrong. The figures prove it. I'm not talking about white papers or snp figures. I'm talking about the receipts. We pay more in than we get back. The fact that you can't see it in your everyday life is exactly why we need independence. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and see with my eyes wasnt asking for figures i ment what i see in everyday life not spreadsheets that can be dressed up to say anything Sorry but figures don't lie. If we live in a house and you pay £100 a week I me and I give you £50 back and call you a subsidy junky who lives off me, there is something wrong. The figures prove it. I'm not talking about white papers or snp figures. I'm talking about the receipts. We pay more in than we get back. The fact that you can't see it in your everyday life is exactly why we need independence." £100 a week for the fat cats 17.5% off the bat then fling tax on everything else your £100 dont look to hot | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and see with my eyes wasnt asking for figures i ment what i see in everyday life not spreadsheets that can be dressed up to say anything Sorry but figures don't lie. If we live in a house and you pay £100 a week I me and I give you £50 back and call you a subsidy junky who lives off me, there is something wrong. The figures prove it. I'm not talking about white papers or snp figures. I'm talking about the receipts. We pay more in than we get back. The fact that you can't see it in your everyday life is exactly why we need independence." This is all a bit Goebbels. Making something up and shouting it again and again don't make it so. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and see with my eyes wasnt asking for figures i ment what i see in everyday life not spreadsheets that can be dressed up to say anything Sorry but figures don't lie. If we live in a house and you pay £100 a week I me and I give you £50 back and call you a subsidy junky who lives off me, there is something wrong. The figures prove it. I'm not talking about white papers or snp figures. I'm talking about the receipts. We pay more in than we get back. The fact that you can't see it in your everyday life is exactly why we need independence. This is all a bit Goebbels. Making something up and shouting it again and again don't make it so." Okay because you don't understand a simplified analogy, I'll try again. We pay more in taxes to Westminster, than is spent in Scotland. If you think I just made that up, that's fine. Fingers back in ears and repeat after me "lalalalalalalalalalala" No for anyone else still interested. The above fact is from the GERS figures. Independent figures which reflect the finances of Scotland. If we pay more in that we get out, and London is doing just fine and Scotland is doing poorly, doesn't that suggest that we could change the system to our benefit? Our should we continue living like this and allowing our resources and talent to be sucked south at Scotland's detriment? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"GERS lives in St Andrews House. This is the equivalent of marking your own homework and giving yourself 100%." Ok so just to be clear - you are stating that you believe the GERS figures which show Scotland finances are in better shape than the rest of the uk, have been amended to favour independence? Is this what you are saying? Because it's quite important to any subsequent debates. Never have I looked more forward to an answer from you. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"GERS lives in St Andrews House. This is the equivalent of marking your own homework and giving yourself 100%. Ok so just to be clear - you are stating that you believe the GERS figures which show Scotland finances are in better shape than the rest of the uk, have been amended to favour independence? Is this what you are saying? Because it's quite important to any subsequent debates. Never have I looked more forward to an answer from you. " Fiddled is the word I'd use. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Fiddled is the word I'd use." Ok. Good to know that you are basing your decision and possibly influencing other's opinions, on a conspiracy theory so fantastic as this. The budget, the white paper, the Westminster government obviously complicit... We are talking lengthy jail terms for all concerned. All the companies that rely on these figures too? How could they all allow this to happen? And wait, why are you the only person to spot this?! Have you contacted the papers? The police? This is watergate level stuff. Eats popcorn. Waits. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"............ NATO has 28 members of those 3 have nuclear weapons (USA, UK, France) 5 others allow nuclear weapons to be deployed or stored on their territory (Belgium, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Netherlands) leaving 20 non nuclear nations. now do you really think given those facts that being a non nuclear nation prevents NATO membership ? That'll be a decision for the NATO members." And NATO would be cool with a nation attached to a nuclear nation, with some of the deepest coastal waters on Europe and on the western seaboard, being outwith its umbrella? Get real. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Fiddled is the word I'd use. Ok. Good to know that you are basing your decision and possibly influencing other's opinions, on a conspiracy theory so fantastic as this. The budget, the white paper, the Westminster government obviously complicit... We are talking lengthy jail terms for all concerned. All the companies that rely on these figures too? How could they all allow this to happen? And wait, why are you the only person to spot this?! Have you contacted the papers? The police? This is watergate level stuff. Eats popcorn. Waits. " The dogs in the streets know Eck's a lying toerag. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The dogs in the streets know Eck's a lying toerag. " I understand you feel that way. My point is your bigger allegation involving a massive conspiracy which involves several hundred high profile people facing a huge jail term. This isn't lies you are alleging. This is one of the greatest crimes in the history of Scotland!! I don't think you have grasped how huge this actually is! Call the police. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"............ NATO has 28 members of those 3 have nuclear weapons (USA, UK, France) 5 others allow nuclear weapons to be deployed or stored on their territory (Belgium, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Netherlands) leaving 20 non nuclear nations. now do you really think given those facts that being a non nuclear nation prevents NATO membership ? That'll be a decision for the NATO members. And NATO would be cool with a nation attached to a nuclear nation, with some of the deepest coastal waters on Europe and on the western seaboard, being outwith its umbrella? Get real. " The only attraction Scotland holds for NATO is HMNB Clyde. No Faslane, why bother? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The dogs in the streets know Eck's a lying toerag. I understand you feel that way. My point is your bigger allegation involving a massive conspiracy which involves several hundred high profile people facing a huge jail term. This isn't lies you are alleging. This is one of the greatest crimes in the history of Scotland!! I don't think you have grasped how huge this actually is! Call the police. " Call Steve House? Lolololol | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"............ NATO has 28 members of those 3 have nuclear weapons (USA, UK, France) 5p others allow nuclear weapons to be deployed or stored on their territory (Belgium, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Netherlands) leaving 20 non nuclear nations. now do you really think given those facts that being a non nuclear nation prevents NATO membership ? That'll be a decision for the NATO members. And NATO would be cool with a nation attached to a nuclear nation, with some of the deepest coastal waters on Europe and on the western seaboard, being outwith its umbrella? Get real. The only attraction Scotland holds for NATO is HMNB Clyde. No Faslane, why bother?" ....because those deepsea bases could be of use to others OUTSIDE of NATO. It's a bit like potentially allowing Turkey into the EU. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"............ NATO has 28 members of those 3 have nuclear weapons (USA, UK, France) 5p others allow nuclear weapons to be deployed or stored on their territory (Belgium, Germany, Italy, Turkey, Netherlands) leaving 20 non nuclear nations. now do you really think given those facts that being a non nuclear nation prevents NATO membership ? That'll be a decision for the NATO members. And NATO would be cool with a nation attached to a nuclear nation, with some of the deepest coastal waters on Europe and on the western seaboard, being outwith its umbrella? Get real. The only attraction Scotland holds for NATO is HMNB Clyde. No Faslane, why bother? ....because those deepsea bases could be of use to others OUTSIDE of NATO. It's a bit like potentially allowing Turkey into the EU. " Are you suggesting Salmond would lease Faslane to North Korea ? It might improve the take away food in Helensburgh. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Hahaha this is the best thread ever!!!! I've sad for the last 20 min reading it, not a single post really makes any valid point about policies for either the yes or no camps, just a lot of sword waving and saltire shakin! It should be a resounding no. Salmond is an egotistical, arrogant fool who's in it for the money and the legacy of being the first prime minister of scotland! One poster- the eastern bloc are amazed were gouverned by someone else, really a former soviet, genocidal country can be compared to the british isles?! *****And here's a test, who knows their history? Who created the United Kingdom ??***** So, let's have an actual debate, Are we better sticking with the status quo ? ( in what way poster are we guinea pigs for policy? ) it works, it's proven it works. We can stay happy!
Or vote yes. Well yes to what? Let's split up the union. Ok, what happens now? Removal of trident, ok, no seat for scotland on NATO, etc so no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others, the loss of circa 16000 jobs if you take in all ancillaries, SNP say we'll find employment, where?
We'll split economically, from a situation with the bank of englsnd where we have some amount of sway, only to go back cap in hand to ask to join the sterling again, great idea! Clearly hey will not agree to better terms! Oh but big Alex says it'll be fine cos we'll get to set our own tax rates ha!
On defence again, where does Scotland's defence force come from? I'm not talking invasion, just a sensible force capable of backing up emergency services, fishery protection, oil girls protection? That costs money, not just the hardware but wages, setting up an entire new ministry to over see it?
Same with intelligence services
Same with police, fire, ambulance!
Sure we'll get to walk away with a percentage of the last budget, but It won't touch the sides!!
We I'm scotland as a percentage, per head get more money from Westminster than any of the other parts of the union! Hence free prescriptions etc!! Are we going to find a free nhs ?! Salmond big claims about pulling in 4 billion from a quid on a bottle of whisky bahahaha! Great economic policy, 800 million is lost, in scotland per year to fraud, representing 7% of the nhs budget! Ergo, what is the cost of the nhs in scotland ?? Anyone know the answer??
Remember this is the guy that wrote a letter during the banking crisis saying hbos and Halifax were ok!!!!! Would a "free" scotland (intrinsically linked to the Bank of England) be able to soak up an event like that?!
Let's see then hardy yes voters, reply to that as a constructed facts based argument
Xx "All of this! The Yes/No debate goes beyond a decision to govern the country. Responsible voters must ask - CAN we do it? not just DO we want to do it. It's like a divorcing couple - England will stand the 'abandoned' party who watches on whilst the divorcee parties hard at new found freedom and then realised that the party the left is strong and getting on with things whilst (after the celebrations are done) the newly single partner realises the implications of their actions and try's to run back! And forgive me but beyond the poll tax what policies have been 'tested' on Scotland only? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... The one good point I heard someone make if the vote was to be Yes the parties saying vote No have not said what would happen in 2 years time if they were to win power." A dead horse is a dead horse. It matters not a jot who's flogging it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... The one good point I heard someone make if the vote was to be Yes the parties saying vote No have not said what would happen in 2 years time if they were to win power. A dead horse is a dead horse. It matters not a jot who's flogging it." Onny have you called the police? Or the papers? If not why not? Unless you are wrong of course and the GERS figures are actually the actual figures? Let us know. It's key to the debate. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"as stated beforehand figures are easy to dress up and adjust to what you would like them to say when you see that the average person on the street is living under the breadline states we aint no rich country but hey fling figures i will judge by what i see with my eyes
Sure thing. I'll do my best anyway.
We pay 9.9% of all tax paid in the uk but we get 9.3% in spending back. We lose a fortune each year by the current system. (I suppose one way to look at it is; if we cost the cruel conservatives money, why are they so keen to keep us? Charity? Nostalgia? This is the Tories we are talking about!! They need our money)
The reason Scotland looks the way it looks Is because of inequality, not poverty. Go to London. Have a look around. We are all in this together so why the difference? Because under the current system policy looks after the well off and the elite. The union is supposed to be a partnership. But it is the 4th most unequal society in the world. We need to get out.
Figures are from GERS and OECD by the way. taken from bbc news tells a slightly diffrent story..... They found that 41% of Glasgow households were living in poverty, the city was suffering population decline and unskilled worker numbers were up. could have placed more on but not really required
Whilst Separation would close Fairfields and Scotstoun. How many more jobs gone?"more scaremongering _nny | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Hahaha this is the best thread ever!!!! I've sad for the last 20 min reading it, not a single post really makes any valid point about policies for either the yes or no camps, just a lot of sword waving and saltire shakin! It should be a resounding no. Salmond is an egotistical, arrogant fool who's in it for the money and the legacy of being the first prime minister of scotland! One poster- the eastern bloc are amazed were gouverned by someone else, really a former soviet, genocidal country can be compared to the british isles?! *****And here's a test, who knows their history? Who created the United Kingdom ??***** So, let's have an actual debate, Are we better sticking with the status quo ? ( in what way poster are we guinea pigs for policy? ) it works, it's proven it works. We can stay happy!
Or vote yes. Well yes to what? Let's split up the union. Ok, what happens now? Removal of trident, ok, no seat for scotland on NATO, etc so no real say in world politics, no way to help of influence others, the loss of circa 16000 jobs if you take in all ancillaries, SNP say we'll find employment, where?
We'll split economically, from a situation with the bank of englsnd where we have some amount of sway, only to go back cap in hand to ask to join the sterling again, great idea! Clearly hey will not agree to better terms! Oh but big Alex says it'll be fine cos we'll get to set our own tax rates ha!
On defence again, where does Scotland's defence force come from? I'm not talking invasion, just a sensible force capable of backing up emergency services, fishery protection, oil girls protection? That costs money, not just the hardware but wages, setting up an entire new ministry to over see it?
Same with intelligence services
Same with police, fire, ambulance!
Sure we'll get to walk away with a percentage of the last budget, but It won't touch the sides!!
We I'm scotland as a percentage, per head get more money from Westminster than any of the other parts of the union! Hence free prescriptions etc!! Are we going to find a free nhs ?! Salmond big claims about pulling in 4 billion from a quid on a bottle of whisky bahahaha! Great economic policy, 800 million is lost, in scotland per year to fraud, representing 7% of the nhs budget! Ergo, what is the cost of the nhs in scotland ?? Anyone know the answer??
Remember this is the guy that wrote a letter during the banking crisis saying hbos and Halifax were ok!!!!! Would a "free" scotland (intrinsically linked to the Bank of England) be able to soak up an event like that?!
Let's see then hardy yes voters, reply to that as a constructed facts based argument
Xx "So... where does your 'constructed facts based arguement' start??? Where are YOUR valid points about policies?? Why should it be a resounding no? Just because you say so....?? Sadly, it sounds like you've been brutally brainwashed by the Westminster Toffs Scare-Machine....!! negative negative negative ... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"as stated beforehand figures are easy to dress up and adjust to what you would like them to say when you see that the average person on the street is living under the breadline states we aint no rich country but hey fling figures i will judge by what i see with my eyes
Sure thing. I'll do my best anyway.
We pay 9.9% of all tax paid in the uk but we get 9.3% in spending back. We lose a fortune each year by the current system. (I suppose one way to look at it is; if we cost the cruel conservatives money, why are they so keen to keep us? Charity? Nostalgia? This is the Tories we are talking about!! They need our money)
The reason Scotland looks the way it looks Is because of inequality, not poverty. Go to London. Have a look around. We are all in this together so why the difference? Because under the current system policy looks after the well off and the elite. The union is supposed to be a partnership. But it is the 4th most unequal society in the world. We need to get out.
Figures are from GERS and OECD by the way. taken from bbc news tells a slightly diffrent story..... They found that 41% of Glasgow households were living in poverty, the city was suffering population decline and unskilled worker numbers were up. could have placed more on but not really required
Whilst Separation would close Fairfields and Scotstoun. How many more jobs gone?
more scaremongering _nny"Ya think? The unlikely event of Separation will see BAe vanish from the Clyde like smaw aff a dyke. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... The one good point I heard someone make if the vote was to be Yes the parties saying vote No have not said what would happen in 2 years time if they were to win power. A dead horse is a dead horse. It matters not a jot who's flogging it. Onny have you called the police? Or the papers? If not why not? Unless you are wrong of course and the GERS figures are actually the actual figures? Let us know. It's key to the debate. " The 2 of you do realise you are arguing over figures that show that, even in the good times, Scotland still runs with a deficit and that does include the North Sea Revenue figures? 2011-2012 figures shows there was a £7.6 billion deficit! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... The one good point I heard someone make if the vote was to be Yes the parties saying vote No have not said what would happen in 2 years time if they were to win power. A dead horse is a dead horse. It matters not a jot who's flogging it. Onny have you called the police? Or the papers? If not why not? Unless you are wrong of course and the GERS figures are actually the actual figures? Let us know. It's key to the debate. The 2 of you do realise you are arguing over figures that show that, even in the good times, Scotland still runs with a deficit and that does include the North Sea Revenue figures? 2011-2012 figures shows there was a £7.6 billion deficit! "At the risk of pointing out the obvious, I'm not arguing about them. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... The 2 of you do realise you are arguing over figures that show that, even in the good times, Scotland still runs with a deficit and that does include the North Sea Revenue figures? 2011-2012 figures shows there was a £7.6 billion deficit! "Of course. Almost all countries run a deficit. (One in particular doesn't but i won't mention the name in case Onny ejaculates) The uk deficit is huge. The point is our finances are in a stronger position than the uk's and without their holding us back we can do so much more (including reducing the deficit.) | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... At the risk of pointing out the obvious, I'm not arguing about them." No but you are claiming they have been fiddled. No evidence. No one else is claiming that. No reason for saying it other than it suits your argument to say it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"as stated beforehand figures are easy to dress up and adjust to what you would like them to say when you see that the average person on the street is living under the breadline states we aint no rich country but hey fling figures i will judge by what i see with my eyes
Sure thing. I'll do my best anyway.
We pay 9.9% of all tax paid in the uk but we get 9.3% in spending back. We lose a fortune each year by the current system. (I suppose one way to look at it is; if we cost the cruel conservatives money, why are they so keen to keep us? Charity? Nostalgia? This is the Tories we are talking about!! They need our money)
The reason Scotland looks the way it looks Is because of inequality, not poverty. Go to London. Have a look around. We are all in this together so why the difference? Because under the current system policy looks after the well off and the elite. The union is supposed to be a partnership. But it is the 4th most unequal society in the world. We need to get out.
Figures are from GERS and OECD by the way. taken from bbc news tells a slightly diffrent story..... They found that 41% of Glasgow households were living in poverty, the city was suffering population decline and unskilled worker numbers were up. could have placed more on but not really required
Whilst Separation would close Fairfields and Scotstoun. How many more jobs gone?
more scaremongering _nny
Ya think? The unlikely event of Separation will see BAe vanish from the Clyde like smaw aff a dyke."And you know this to be a fact?and if so when and by whom was this decided | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"............ Whilst Separation would close Fairfields and Scotstoun. How many more jobs gone? more scaremongering _nny Ya think? The unlikely event of Separation will see BAe vanish from the Clyde like smaw aff a dyke. And you know this to be a fact?and if so when and by whom was this decided" Yesterday's announcement on 2 yards v 1 yard was a good indicator. BAe will wait till they've started work on the inshore protection vessels before announcing their decision but no frigate work + the lease on Govan running out .........? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... The 2 of you do realise you are arguing over figures that show that, even in the good times, Scotland still runs with a deficit and that does include the North Sea Revenue figures? 2011-2012 figures shows there was a £7.6 billion deficit!
Of course. Almost all countries run a deficit. (One in particular doesn't but i won't mention the name in case Onny ejaculates)
The uk deficit is huge. The point is our finances are in a stronger position than the uk's and without their holding us back we can do so much more (including reducing the deficit.)"Apart from the "fact" that you said further up the thread "We pay more in taxes to Westminster, than is spent in Scotland." You are now admitting that, in actual fact, we don't and are running with a deficit! I.E. we spend more than we bring in and that includes North Sea Revenue! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... ............... Apart from the "fact" that you said further up the thread "We pay more in taxes to Westminster, than is spent in Scotland." You are now admitting that, in actual fact, we don't and are running with a deficit! I.E. we spend more than we bring in and that includes North Sea Revenue! "There aren't ANY facts. There's plenty of opinion based on very little agreed evidence. When Salmond says Scotland WILL keep Sterling and the Monarchy and EU membership and all the other shite he's promising - he's making it up. He'd LIKE all those things but he can't promise them 'cos they're not in his gift. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... ............... Apart from the "fact" that you said further up the thread "We pay more in taxes to Westminster, than is spent in Scotland." You are now admitting that, in actual fact, we don't and are running with a deficit! I.E. we spend more than we bring in and that includes North Sea Revenue!
There aren't ANY facts.
There's plenty of opinion based on very little agreed evidence.
When Salmond says Scotland WILL keep Sterling and the Monarchy and EU membership and all the other shite he's promising - he's making it up.
He'd LIKE all those things but he can't promise them 'cos they're not in his gift."Onny - Why pick my post to put that reply? You do confuse me at times!
There is a "fact" that I posted about in my reply it is further up the thread so facts do exist! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"............ Whilst Separation would close Fairfields and Scotstoun. How many more jobs gone? more scaremongering _nny Ya think? The unlikely event of Separation will see BAe vanish from the Clyde like smaw aff a dyke. And you know this to be a fact?and if so when and by whom was this decided Yesterday's announcement on 2 yards v 1 yard was a good indicator. BAe will wait till they've started work on the inshore protection vessels before announcing their decision but no frigate work + the lease on Govan running out .........?" a good indicator is not fact its only ur take on it,id be willing to bet that BAe will still be building ships in govan for many years to come,u really should stop scaremongering about closures and job losses unless u know its a fact. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... Apart from the "fact" that you said further up the thread "We pay more in taxes to Westminster, than is spent in Scotland." You are now admitting that, in actual fact, we don't and are running with a deficit! I.E. we spend more than we bring in and that includes North Sea Revenue! "No you just didn't understand it. We get raise more in tax than we receive in spending. The is a fact. We also run a deficit (like everyone else) which means are spending is more than is raised. So we borrow. But "we" don't borrow. Westminster borrows for us. They give us our share and charge us interest on it even though they borrowed it themselves from elsewhere. We don't need the middleman. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... Apart from the "fact" that you said further up the thread "We pay more in taxes to Westminster, than is spent in Scotland." You are now admitting that, in actual fact, we don't and are running with a deficit! I.E. we spend more than we bring in and that includes North Sea Revenue!
No you just didn't understand it.
We get raise more in tax than we receive in spending. The is a fact.
We also run a deficit (like everyone else) which means are spending is more than is raised. So we borrow. But "we" don't borrow. Westminster borrows for us. They give us our share and charge us interest on it even though they borrowed it themselves from elsewhere. We don't need the middleman.
"Thanks but I did understand it - don't you worry about that one; I've read the GERS report! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"............ Whilst Separation would close Fairfields and Scotstoun. How many more jobs gone? more scaremongering _nny Ya think? The unlikely event of Separation will see BAe vanish from the Clyde like smaw aff a dyke. And you know this to be a fact?and if so when and by whom was this decided Yesterday's announcement on 2 yards v 1 yard was a good indicator. BAe will wait till they've started work on the inshore protection vessels before announcing their decision but no frigate work + the lease on Govan running out .........? a good indicator is not fact its only ur take on it,id be willing to bet that BAe will still be building ships in govan for many years to come,u really should stop scaremongering about closures and job losses unless u know its a fact." The lease on the old Fairfields yard run out in 2019 and BAe won't even think about renewing it unless there's guaranteed work. MOD Navy work. The emphasis is on guaranteed. BTW, I'd be willing to bet that BAe will be building ships on the Clyde for years, but not in a Separate Scotland and not at Govan. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... Thanks but I did understand it - don't you worry about that one; I've read the GERS report! "Ok so you agree then that we raise more than is spent (obviously not including what is borrowed on our behalf?) | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... Thanks but I did understand it - don't you worry about that one; I've read the GERS report!
Ok so you agree then that we raise more than is spent (obviously not including what is borrowed on our behalf?)"Sorry but that is not what the report you are relying on so heavily says! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... Sorry but that is not what the report you are relying on so heavily says! "Ok well tell us then! What does it say? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... Sorry but that is not what the report you are relying on so heavily says!
Ok well tell us then! What does it say? "You mean you haven't actually read it?
2011-2012 Figures
Expenditure = £64.5 billion
Non North Sea Revenue = £46.3 billion
Then add in the "geographical share" of North Sea Revenue = £56.9 billion
Therefore a £7.6 billion deficit i.e. the extra that the Government "borrow on our behalf"
So we don't make enough to pay our own way!
That's the shortened version just for you and I will now leave you dispute the GERS figures that you are so heavily relying on for "Scotland's Future" | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| Reply privately |
"*yawns*" Anything I can do to wake you up?  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... Sorry but that is not what the report you are relying on so heavily says!
Ok well tell us then! What does it say?
You mean you haven't actually read it?
2011-2012 Figures
Expenditure = £64.5 billion
Non North Sea Revenue = £46.3 billion
Then add in the "geographical share" of North Sea Revenue = £56.9 billion
Therefore a £7.6 billion deficit i.e. the extra that the Government "borrow on our behalf"
So we don't make enough to pay our own way!
That's the shortened version just for you and I will now leave you dispute the GERS figures that you are so heavily relying on for "Scotland's Future""Sorry but you have just quoted back to me exactly what I told you! See that 64.5 billion, it includes money that has been borrowed by westminster on our behalf. That is not a gift! We can borrow that oursleves! Why do we need the middle man? Do you realise that you are taking a loan from someone who borrowed it from someone else and calling being subsided by them? And you have misquoted me. I never said we "make enough to pay our way" I said we raise more than is spent. We send money south. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"*yawns* Anything I can do to wake you up? "Oh im sorry think i typed it out loud please forgive me! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... Sorry but that is not what the report you are relying on so heavily says!
Ok well tell us then! What does it say?
You mean you haven't actually read it?
2011-2012 Figures
Expenditure = £64.5 billion
Non North Sea Revenue = £46.3 billion
Then add in the "geographical share" of North Sea Revenue = £56.9 billion
Therefore a £7.6 billion deficit i.e. the extra that the Government "borrow on our behalf"
So we don't make enough to pay our own way!
That's the shortened version just for you and I will now leave you dispute the GERS figures that you are so heavily relying on for "Scotland's Future"
Sorry but you have just quoted back to me exactly what I told you!
See that 64.5 billion, it includes money that has been borrowed by westminster on our behalf. That is not a gift! We can borrow that oursleves! Why do we need the middle man?
Do you realise that you are taking a loan from someone who borrowed it from someone else and calling being subsided by them?
And you have misquoted me. I never said we "make enough to pay our way" I said we raise more than is spent. We send money south. "Ok my last post in reply to the GERS Report - We don't raise more than is spent the GERS Report says so, please go and read it and include/ exclude the North Sea Revenue and we still don't have enough cash for what we are spending - The GERS Report says so not me!!!! All GERS'd out now - cya! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting Salmond would lease Faslane to North Korea ? It might improve the take away food in Helensburgh." Hey- brilliant. I love Korean food . Wonder if Japan, Thailand and southern Pacific might be interested in a Scottish franchise? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"*yawns* Anything I can do to wake you up?
Oh im sorry think i typed it out loud please forgive me! "No worries, I'm starting to put myself to sleep now too! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... Ok my last post in reply to the GERS Report - We don't raise more than is spent the GERS Report says so, please go and read it and include/ exclude the North Sea Revenue and we still don't have enough cash for what we are spending - The GERS Report says so not me!!!! All GERS'd out now - cya! " Ok so you can't answer my point. Fair enough. For completion then I'll repeat (as you again misquoted me before running off) I never said we make enough for what we are spending. I said we didn't. I said we run a deficit. What I said was we send more to westminster than we get back from them. That is simply a fact and it's crucial to the debate. So if we were independent we would be better off and would be better placed to lower our deficit. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
".... Ok my last post in reply to the GERS Report - We don't raise more than is spent the GERS Report says so, please go and read it and include/ exclude the North Sea Revenue and we still don't have enough cash for what we are spending - The GERS Report says so not me!!!! All GERS'd out now - cya! Ok so you can't answer my point. Fair enough. For completion then I'll repeat (as you again misquoted me before running off) I never said we make enough for what we are spending. I said we didn't. I said we run a deficit. What I said was we send more to westminster than we get back from them. That is simply a fact and it's crucial to the debate. So if we were independent we would be better off and would be better placed to lower our deficit. " I "copied and pasted" your text so no misquote
PS it was only a quote when I put " & " around it - Right I'm off for 40winks | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" This is all a bit Goebbels. Making something up and shouting it again and again don't make it so." Well you would know, being the expert in that. And, yet again, Godwin's law now applies to you. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"............ Whilst Separation would close Fairfields and Scotstoun. How many more jobs gone? more scaremongering _nny Ya think? The unlikely event of Separation will see BAe vanish from the Clyde like smaw aff a dyke. And you know this to be a fact?and if so when and by whom was this decided Yesterday's announcement on 2 yards v 1 yard was a good indicator. BAe will wait till they've started work on the inshore protection vessels before announcing their decision but no frigate work + the lease on Govan running out .........? a good indicator is not fact its only ur take on it,id be willing to bet that BAe will still be building ships in govan for many years to come,u really should stop scaremongering about closures and job losses unless u know its a fact. The lease on the old Fairfields yard run out in 2019 and BAe won't even think about renewing it unless there's guaranteed work. MOD Navy work. The emphasis is on guaranteed. BTW, I'd be willing to bet that BAe will be building ships on the Clyde for years, but not in a Separate Scotland and not at Govan. " So you know for a fact BAe wont renew their lease?please tell us how u know this . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"............ Whilst Separation would close Fairfields and Scotstoun. How many more jobs gone? more scaremongering _nny Ya think? The unlikely event of Separation will see BAe vanish from the Clyde like smaw aff a dyke. And you know this to be a fact?and if so when and by whom was this decided Yesterday's announcement on 2 yards v 1 yard was a good indicator. BAe will wait till they've started work on the inshore protection vessels before announcing their decision but no frigate work + the lease on Govan running out .........? a good indicator is not fact its only ur take on it,id be willing to bet that BAe will still be building ships in govan for many years to come,u really should stop scaremongering about closures and job losses unless u know its a fact. The lease on the old Fairfields yard run out in 2019 and BAe won't even think about renewing it unless there's guaranteed work. MOD Navy work. The emphasis is on guaranteed. BTW, I'd be willing to bet that BAe will be building ships on the Clyde for years, but not in a Separate Scotland and not at Govan. So you know for a fact BAe wont renew their lease?please tell us how u know this ." As I said above, there are no facts but without the frigate work, BAe won't need Govan. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" This is all a bit Goebbels. Making something up and shouting it again and again don't make it so. Well you would know, being the expert in that. And, yet again, Godwin's law now applies to you. " Ye'll no be laughing when Salmond decides to invade Poland. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"............ Whilst Separation would close Fairfields and Scotstoun. How many more jobs gone? more scaremongering _nny Ya think? The unlikely event of Separation will see BAe vanish from the Clyde like smaw aff a dyke.k And you know this to be a fact?and if so when and by whom was this decided Yesterday's announcement on 2 yards v 1 yard was a good indicator. BAe will wait till they've started work on the inshore protection vessels before announcing their decision but no frigate work + the lease on Govan running out .........? a good indicator is not fact its only ur take on it,id be willing to bet that BAe will still be building ships in govan for many years to come,u really should stop scaremongering about closures and job losses unless u know its a fact. The lease on the old Fairfields yard run out in 2019 and BAe won't even think about renewing it unless there's guaranteed work. MOD Navy work. The emphasis is on guaranteed. BTW, I'd be willing to bet that BAe will be building ships on the Clyde for years, but not in a Separate Scotland and not at Govan. So you know for a fact BAe wont renew their lease?please tell us how u know this . As I said above, there are no facts but without the frigate work, BAe won't need Govan." as i thought no facts just what u think will happen ,just more scaremongering from you . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"On BAe. Do you know that the English yards are incapable of building ships without help from Govan? BAe spend a fortune each year transporting workers on secondment to the English yards because the skills are not there to do the job. It costs them a fortune in air fairs, accommodation and bonuses. They didn't keep the Scottish yards and close the English ones for nothing last year and the reasoning wasn't misty-eyed nationalism. Oh, and without Trident there will be the opportunity to regain the best deep-water facility in the country for ship-building (as well as the West-coast oil exploration the MoD won't allow) making it more cost-effective to keep working in Scotland." Totally agree with u on this 100% | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" This is all a bit Goebbels. Making something up and shouting it again and again don't make it so. Well you would know, being the expert in that. And, yet again, Godwin's law now applies to you. Ye'll no be laughing when Salmond decides to invade Poland." POLAND! Could we not invade somewhere warmer and nicer.? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Read it all and it's still a no from me "Why cutie? Onny Im still waiting on your replies from the closed vote no thread mate | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So.......are the decisions made by informed choice or by long held beliefs? I think the majority of people make their choice in a random fashion- previous/family political alliance -and then tailor the arguments to it. People hear what they want to and in politics, there seems to be a million ways of interpretating 'it's raining outside'. For me- it's yes and always has been because I want to live in a self-determining nation. I'm proud to be Scottish, hate being subjected to or mixed with English machismo . I consider myself distinct in my identity from the English. I realise very many English just don't get the Scottish identity and why being 'Scottish' is so different and means so much more, than being 'British'" bravo well said | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Read it all and it's still a no from me
Why cutie?
Onny Im still waiting on your replies from the closed vote no thread mate"Because I truly don't think it will make any difference to my life, politicians will always be politicians and at the end of the day nothing really ever changes for me no matter who is in power I am proud to be Scottish and happy to be British | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Because I truly don't think it will make any difference to my life, politicians will always be politicians and at the end of the day nothing really ever changes for me no matter who is in power I am proud to be Scottish and happy to be British "Fair enough. But you can still be British post independence. I'm just Scottish but that's my identity and in the event of a no vote, that won't change. It's just who I am. With regards to nothing chaining, I really feel the gradual change in confidence we will have as a nation running it's own affairs rather than having Westminster do it for is will mature us. I spoke someone recently who was a no because everything was fine with him in his life at the moment. My response to that was that although I understand his point, I really hope he doesn't find himself suddenly out of work, ill or otherwise unable to support himself outside of his control because the policies of Westminster are not designed to ensure you are going to be okay! And right now we have no control of that. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Well this is a belter of a debate ive always been a strong no vote until recently as ive always belived salmonds on agenda is to get his name into history books for his legacy but with recent developments around the world and with cameron coming out and trying bullying tactics using big business, I belive hes running scared , point one if scotland becomes independent enland lose 9.9% in taxes. Point 2 everything north of the border ie oil minerals water will be solely controld by the scottish peopl/Government. So price rises on exports will rises as we pipe water down south and refine and export oils and petro chemicals were in england do they do this do uses see oil rigs in englands waters . For a long time we a small modest nation have let england use us under the united kingdom banner for there own profits like sports talents and burns nite, and all inventions in the modern worl have come from scotland . I thank you ." There are oil rigs in English waters already,at least 6 refineries with at least 2 of them having petrochemical plants attached. Scottish sports talents tend not to turn out for England although there are some exceptions (squash player peter nicol being one) Burns was of course a scot but that doesnt prevent other nationalities celebrating his work. as for ALL inventions in the modern world coming from Scotland, yes we have punched above our weight in the past but we certainly cant claim ALL inventions. and last but no means least,your post is at best poorly thought out and at worst an insight into your xenophobia. This is about Scotlands future not lets stick two fingers up to the English,no more of that kind of nonsense from anyone please. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"does voting yes mean that the "national news" will no linger be stuffed full of english premier league and cricket. i mean really, the order of the bbc news now goes, news from london, the english cricket, foreign news and over to news from your region. " I actually think that this is one of the many things that are dripped into out collective consciousness that add to the inherent inferiority complex in Scotland. English news first, cricket (who cares?) and then it over to the regions. Growing up with that 'England is more important' being dripped in over the years has really had an affect I think. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"does voting yes mean that the "national news" will no linger be stuffed full of english premier league and cricket. i mean really, the order of the bbc news now goes, news from london, the english cricket, foreign news and over to news from your region. I actually think that this is one of the many things that are dripped into out collective consciousness that add to the inherent inferiority complex in Scotland. English news first, cricket (who cares?) and then it over to the regions. Growing up with that 'England is more important' being dripped in over the years has really had an affect I think. " This is an area i have put some thought into as well, not only in terms of national identity but across all areas of our conciousness and subconcious. The most obvious evidence can be found in the way we are influenced by advertising and marketing campaigns. worthy of a thread on of its own. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" This is an area i have put some thought into as well, not only in terms of national identity but across all areas of our conciousness and subconcious. The most obvious evidence can be found in the way we are influenced by advertising and marketing campaigns. worthy of a thread on of its own." In a petrol station in Edinburgh they had a big display for mars and snickers saying "win a chance to play with your heroes at wembley." Load of England flags all over it. At the very least it was laughable. Stupid, poor marketing decision from them to simply assume Britain = England and roll out the campaign "nationwide." But kids see that and other things like it. Wayne Rooney in poster for some drink. The equivalent star for the same product in Ireland was Robbie Keane. It does drip in very gradually that we are not really all that important. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"does voting yes mean that the "national news" will no linger be stuffed full of english premier league and cricket. i mean really, the order of the bbc news now goes, news from london, the english cricket, foreign news and over to news from your region. I actually think that this is one of the many things that are dripped into out collective consciousness that add to the inherent inferiority complex in Scotland. English news first, cricket (who cares?) and then it over to the regions. Growing up with that 'England is more important' being dripped in over the years has really had an affect I think. " Nobody believes its about 'more important', it's simply bigger and in an industry where audience size is everything, the media will play to the biggest possible crowd. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"playing to the biggest crowd is not an excuse where the bbc news is concerned. there are regional news programmes, my gripe about unbiased and national news is that it is neither, and so distorts the newscapes and our own reflection of the nations priorities.we have had devolution and devolved matters for a donkeys age now, but rarely do national news shows bother to say that such a situation or piece of legislation affects only england and wales, much less compare and contrast the situation across the entire country. the overall effect is that the uk=england, or even just the south east of england. i just expect more from the bbc, given that they do not have to pander to voters and are one of the few truly unifing entities that we have that should be free of such lazy bias. " the flaw in the expectation of the bbc being impartial or unbiased is that they are funded via not only the licence fee but also in part from the treasury. The result of this is that due to self interest the decision makers at an executive level dont want to upset or offend those who hold the purse strings (both politicians and civil service) this then filters down through the organisation. he who pays the piper calls the tune. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Well this is a belter of a debate ive always been a strong no vote until recently as ive always belived salmonds on agenda is to get his name into history books for his legacy but with recent developments around the world and with cameron coming out and trying bullying tactics using big business, I belive hes running scared , point one if scotland becomes independent enland lose 9.9% in taxes. Point 2 everything north of the border ie oil minerals water will be solely controld by the scottish peopl/Government. So price rises on exports will rises as we pipe water down south and refine and export oils and petro chemicals were in england do they do this do uses see oil rigs in englands waters . For a long time we a small modest nation have let england use us under the united kingdom banner for there own profits like sports talents and burns nite, and all inventions in the modern worl have come from scotland . I thank you . There are oil rigs in English waters already,at least 6 refineries with at least 2 of them having petrochemical plants attached. Scottish sports talents tend not to turn out for England although there are some exceptions (squash player peter nicol being one) Burns was of course a scot but that doesnt prevent other nationalities celebrating his work. as for ALL inventions in the modern world coming from Scotland, yes we have punched above our weight in the past but we certainly cant claim ALL inventions. and last but no means least,your post is at best poorly thought out and at worst an insight into your xenophobia. This is about Scotlands future not lets stick two fingers up to the English,no more of that kind of nonsense from anyone please." well I say lol hmm lets see were to begin Ahh why bother as its my own personal opinion freedom of speech is a wonderfull thing and lets justvsay the future for scotland is a independent scotland for the people by the people under one flag not a red whit and blue flag just white and blue and throw in a lion rampant and a unicorn. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Read it all and it's still a no from me
Why cutie?
Onny Im still waiting on your replies from the closed vote no thread mate"Still? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Read it all and it's still a no from me
Why cutie?
Onny Im still waiting on your replies from the closed vote no thread mate
Because I truly don't think it will make any difference to my life, politicians will always be politicians and at the end of the day nothing really ever changes for me no matter who is in power
I am proud to be Scottish and happy to be British "After independence you will still be British... you are a British resident by virue of the fact that you live on this island called Britain. Your nationality will continue to be Scottish. Independence can't break up Britain... but it can mean Scotland is governed from Scotland... and not by the posh-boys from Westminster. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Please remember that Scotland sends MP s to Westminster. Having a tory government is called democracy.... the majority of the UK voted for them. Please remember in the past the SNP voted with the Tories to bring down the Labour government and we got Thatcher !!! If Scotland was independent and Labour came to power would you complain that it is not the government you voted for !!!!! " no because that would be the government that the majority of Scottish people voted for......do you actually get the point of independence??? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Please remember that Scotland sends MP s to Westminster. Having a tory government is called democracy.... the majority of the UK voted for them. Please remember in the past the SNP voted with the Tories to bring down the Labour government and we got Thatcher !!! If Scotland was independent and Labour came to power would you complain that it is not the government you voted for !!!!! no because that would be the government that the majority of Scottish people voted for......do you actually get the point of independence???" The majority of Scottish people didn't vote SNP yet still got a Tartan Tory led Scottish Executive. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Just a thought,,,,, the Shetlanders do not really see themselves as Scottish, they have there own flag etc. If they decide they want to go independent will we be rushing to say good bye to them ??????" They may decide to say goodbye to us, regardless of the Separendum vote. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Fuck sake these threads are becoming increasingly boring now. Same argument over and over. Vote whatever the Fuck you want "yes I agree...why have a topical debate when we can be contributing to posts wishing everyone a happy Wednesday | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Fuck sake these threads are becoming increasingly boring now. Same argument over and over. Vote whatever the Fuck you want "Dinnae like the topic dinnae post nae cunts forcing you to read | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Shite !!!! I cant believe I have to agree with Dr Deep for a change lol" its a bugger aint it | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"At check in last night above the BA desk at Edinburgh was some message about the rugby - obviously not been updated after the weekend pumping. Vote yes to never beat England at Rugby in next 10 years " and vote no to never beat the England at rugby for the next 10 years.....your point is????? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Please remember that Scotland sends MP s to Westminster. Having a tory government is called democracy.... the majority of the UK voted for them. Please remember in the past the SNP voted with the Tories to bring down the Labour government and we got Thatcher !!! If Scotland was independent and Labour came to power would you complain that it is not the government you voted for !!!!! " Yes we Scots send MPs to Westminster. The majority of people who voted in the last general election did not vote Tory. The last general election effectively resulted in a hung Parliment. Did we get that? Instead we ended up with 5 years of Tory overlordship. The reason we feel that we have a wasted vote within the Westminster parliment is because for nia on two decades the Scots returned Labour to Westminster in almost 100% of the available seats and we still had a Tory goverment. The reason for this is because at the union of parliments in 1707 Scots parliment was refused an equal amount of seats with thier English counterparts and was forced to accept a reduction in her representatives of aprox 2/3rds (eg before 1707 100 mps in Scots Parliment only 33 mps were allowed in allowed in Westminster after 1707) I was a young child when Thatcher came to power in 79. The bringing down of the goverment that allowed Thatcher into power was a product of the time. Thatcher swept into power in 79 in a manner similer to Blair in 97. And for the same reason. The inefectual leadership of the previous goverment. Everyone feels like you sujest when their chosen candidate is not elected. The problem was not this feeling. It is that there is an unfair proportion of seats allocated to Scots in Westminster. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| back to top |  |
