FabSwingers.com forum: independence white paper

By *awk3y3 OP Man
over a year ago

West Lothian

To be independent as a cou try or not to be independent as a country ? Take on a Scandinavian model such as Sen / Norway ?

What's your view ?

I read this blog article the other day . . Made sense to me

I have to admit, I grew up thinking that Scottish Independence would be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then I started to realise, it’s a bit like separating conjoined twins, it’s not as simple as putting Rabbie Burns head on the £ and getting on with it. I’ve watched the debate so far, and although I was naturally leaning towards Yes! I still had to be persuaded and here is why (so far) I have been.

OIL

Both sides have been endlessly bickering about how much North Sea oil is left and how much it is worth and while I agree this is important, it’s not the be all and end all. The No campaign would have you believe that there is enough oil to last until 2015 and it’s worth twa bob. The Yes fellas have it at endless and worth a trillion per person. The one fact remains, this planet does not have 40 years worth of oil usage left in it. If we are still producing oil in 2050, this planet will have more to worry about than us like, where did Holland go? Remember we used to be able to see the sun? The future is sustainable energy, solar, tidal and wind. That’s the ace up Scotland’s sleeve and in the words of Meat Loaf ”2 out of 3 ain’t bad.”

Alex Salmond

This is a total non-debate. I’m refusing to make a decision about the long term future of our nation based on the personality of a 58 year old man. In the event of a Yes vote, he does not become President or King, his position doesn’t change. If you refuse to vote Yes because you don’t like Salmond are you voting No because you like David Cameron? Because that is the logical conclusion of that argument.

No Camapaign

This is one of the most horrid and downright nasty campaigns I’ve ever seen. It’s just scare tactic after scare tactic. It’s an awful, negative debate based on lies and fiddled statistics paid for by corrupt oil money, backed up by Scottish Labour MPs towing the Westminster party line fearful for their own political futures. Guys that are burning their bridges and running down their own nation for their own political advancement. Then there is George Galloway. He wants freedom for everyone, except his own people. That’s because George is a joke in his own country and in the event of Independence worries there will be no place in London for his loud mouth shock Jock shtick.

Honestly, if you want to win people over, do it by selling why the Union works not why Scotland doesn’t. Which takes me to my next point.

Why Do They Want Us?

Now, we have had to watch on for three years as the Tories with their lickspittle Liberal Lapdogs destroy Britain, strip it bare like vultures draining the last profit from the every last available source. The poor are now scroungers, there is a new thing called Working Poor, the NHS is being privatised in all but name, Royal Mail has been sold on the cheap.

They tell us, that Scotland can’t survive alone, they tell us that we take more than we give in this Union. So why would the party of the rich, the party of profit, the party that puts £’s before people, why would they want to continue to subsidise a whole nation, when they won’t even subsidise a disabled person’s spare bedroom?

For me this is the light that shines upon the lie, Scotland is not a drain, if it was they would have cut us loose, they would be leading the Yes campaign. Ask yourself, Why do the Tories want Scotland?

Fairer Society.

This takes me to the crux of the issue. I want, and I know many of my fellow Scots do as well, our children to grow up in a fairer society. A society that cares about the poor, a society that does not send it’s young to all corners of the globe fighting illegal wars, a society that places human dignity higher on the balance sheets than Royal Weddings.

I want English people to have that, I want Welsh people to have that, I want all people in all countries to have that. If it means Scotland separating itself from a broken and corrupt system in order to build this new fairer society, a society that can act as a template for a new way of doing things, a new way of treating each other, well I’m going to vote Yes!

Yes for me. . .

Yes 1 - 0 Noadd

Add your vote in a non binding unofficial poll

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Anyone who watched Our Friends in the North will know the Nordic model isn't all Mr Salmond would like us to think it it.

No doubt the book will come in handy if you have a table with a shoogly leg or need details of Ms Sturgeon's outfit.

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All the signs of another Darien disaster in the making...

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

2 minutes in and it's at the pointy shouting stage. Brilliant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sick of listening to it all already and we have almost another year of it grrrrrrr we need a Number 10 sponsered diversion!!!! but my guess that will come at the beginning of next summer lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes from both here.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Sorted.Apparently everything will be much, much better whilst remaining exactly the same.

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

To be perfectly honest i have been in the no camp since day 1 .....HOWEVER i am now firmly on the fence ....as the op stated ....if scotland doesnt really bring anything to the table apart from being a drain on the uk ....then WHY would westminster be against independence....i look forward to reading this white paper in full and hear what westminsters arguements are against

This is a decision which NO-ONE should take lightly

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By *ompip3Couple
over a year ago

Paisley

If Scotland gains Independance..... will there be a bill passed that bans you from putting sugar in your porridge?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To many ifs n buts for me. I'm doing not to bad getting my head down and doing an honest days work. Whilst I think there's some wrongs with the country I don't think breaking away would put them right.

Better together for me

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By *issBehavingxxWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As it stands, no.

However...Part of the reason I'm firmly in the no camp right now is that I distrust all politicians and all manifestos as its very easy for then to go back on them once they're in power and so far, the proposals by the SNP look, on the surface, to be nothing more than pledges in a manifesto, noting concrete and to be frank, I'm concerned that this is forever, theres no going back if we get it wrong.

So, I saw this idea this morning and would probably vote 'yes' under these circumstances...

'The constitution unit at University College London raises an interesting prospect. It argues that, if the SNP wins and its white paper turns out to be a "false prospectus", there would be a "strong case" for holding a second referendum in 2016. Voters could be asked whether they "still want independence on these terms", it says.'

So basically 'Yes' gets voted through on principle and if the white paper promises turn out to be bullshit, we get a second chance to veto independence on the grounds that the SNP were talking shite.

P.S. To the OP...If you vote against Alex Salmond because you don't like him, it means you like David Cameron?? Really? Absolute nonsense! I'm not a fan of David Cameron either but I actually dislike him less than Salmond. That doesn't mean I like him!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"To be perfectly honest i have been in the no camp since day 1 .....HOWEVER i am now firmly on the fence ....as the op stated ....if scotland doesnt really bring anything to the table apart from being a drain on the uk ....then WHY would westminster be against independence....i look forward to reading this white paper in full and hear what westminsters arguements are against

This is a decision which NO-ONE should take lightly

IS Westminster against independence?

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By *eefdoddusCouple
over a year ago

Scottish Borders

A big yes here too.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"A big yes here too."

Serious question.

Leaving aside all the he said/she said promises and so on about the £, the Monarch and Dr Who, if, IF, it transpired Scotland didn't have access to the £ Sterling because the Bank of England wouldn't play lender of last resort to a foreign country, would you still say yes?

RBS goes tits up - nobody to bail it out.

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By *z ThongzWoman
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

Yes from me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolute nonsense! I'm not a fan of David Cameron either but I actually dislike him less than Salmond. That doesn't mean I like him!"

Complete tosh.

Firstly because this is a manifesto. It's the SNP's idea of what would happen if we get independence and IF they're voted into power. The independence vote is not a vote for the SNP and they are not the only ones who support the idea, however much Bitter Together and the media want us to think it is. Secondly because we would have no idea which aspirations would pan out by 2016.

Not one country that has taken the independence has ever asked for it back. Does that not indicate that it has a 100% success rate for leaving this corrupt and morally bankrupt union?

The point about liking David Cameron is a similie. It's like saying that and is aimed at all those folk who say that their sole reason for voting no is that they don't like Mr Salmond. Clearly your thoughts on the matter have more depth, but there are people out there who are deciding their vote on personality and the slurs if the unionist media.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A big yes here too.

Serious question.

RBS goes tits up - nobody to bail it out."

Banks went tits up in Iceland. Because they weren't in hock to The City and the bankers they are in a far better position than we are today. Their bankers were imprisoned, ours were rewarded. Besides, RBS is no longer a Scottish institution. It's a multi-national company and if it had to be bailed out we would not be liable for the entire amount.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Salmond insists its not a manifesto but a blueprint.

It's not a list of promises made to any future Separate Scotland, it's an attempt to get permission to negotiate with whatever government is in Westminster post 2015.

It looks very unlikely that Salmond's ' promises' will be agreed to. It takes two to tango.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"A big yes here too.

Serious question.

RBS goes tits up - nobody to bail it out.

I think the good folks at Gogarburn would disagree.

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By *awk3y3 OP Man
over a year ago

West Lothian

Anyone in the UK can get a free hard copy of the blueprint by emailing referendumwhitepaper@scotland.gsi.gov.uk

or by phoning 0300 012 1809

Mine is on its way. . .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Here we go again. Politicians making pledges and promises they can never keep. Heard it all before Mr Salmond.. The only thing he wants to keep is the glorious 12th for grouse shooting and he hasn't even mentioned the haggis hunting season.

Our Scottish forces will get porridge for breakfast, lunch and supper every day so we can be a nation again...DONT think so

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Remember there is no going back !!!!

So we are keeping the pound which means a foreign country through the Bank of England will be setting our interest rates and economic policy !!! So which part of us is independent !!!!!!

If we had to join the EU we wold have to wait a year before we would be free of the tarrifs so our exporters would be fucked by then !!!!

Please be aware that much of the policy is built on oil prices,as we now know Iran is coming back into the fold so as the Iranian oil comes onto the market the price will go down so where does that leave the economic strategy !!!1 I still don't know how much of the UK debt we are taking with us but I feel we might turn into Greece overnight !!!!

And finally does every one trust salmond to have enough money in the pot in the land of milk and honey to pay our pensions

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Anyone in the UK can get a free hard copy of the blueprint by emailing referendumwhitepaper@scotland.gsi.gov.uk

or by phoning 0300 012 1809

Mine is on its way. . . "

If we all order one (or more) we can bankrupt the SNP.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".......

And finally does every one trust salmond to have enough money in the pot in the land of milk and honey to pay our pensions"

He's already bought an airport so he can slink off into the night when it all goes tits up for Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hope he takes the lovely Nicola with him to paradise !!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm scottish not britsh. Never voted SNP but voting yes in referendum. Either Scotland is a country or its not. If its not then all vestiges of a different country should be done away with. No more separate scottish sports teams and leagues. No more separate legal and education systems. We should get the govt we vote for not what anyone else does.

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By *awk3y3 OP Man
over a year ago

West Lothian

Given it's attitude to the vulnerable and those below the poverty line I am sincerely concerned about what the UK Gov would then change in Scotland if we voted No. . .

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

[Removed by poster at 26/11/13 15:13:14]

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By *awk3y3 OP Man
over a year ago

West Lothian

"I still don't know how much of the UK debt we are taking with us but I feel we might turn into Greece overnight !!!!"

I agree its a 'pluck a number from the air' but as a % of population in Scotland or GDP we would also be entitled to the assets by the same % or off set some of the assets we don't want to reduce the amount of debt we do take. . . Its not like Greece at all

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I still don't know how much of the UK debt we are taking with us but I feel we might turn into Greece overnight !!!!

People keep talking about 'entitled'.

There's no such thing in this context. In the unlikely event of a yes vote, all that happens is that negotiations begin.

People are only entitled to what they can secure at the negotiating table.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

its no a popular thing for a protestant rangers fan to say where i stay and I've never voted but i hope we go independent .how the fuk could it ever be possibly worse than those Tory cunt Twats ...and relax. x x X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolute nonsense! I'm not a fan of David Cameron either but I actually dislike him less than Salmond. That doesn't mean I like him!

Complete tosh.

Not one country that has taken the independence has ever asked for it back. Does that not indicate that it has a 100% success rate for leaving this corrupt and morally bankrupt union?

So, according to you, we're supposed to vote yes or no based on a few vague ideas of what MIGHT happen or what the SNP wold LIKE to happen? That being the case, whats the point in them producing this document? Why don't they make a whole load of promises that they'd like to happen, most of which won't have much basis in reality. Oh, hang on, they have!

Seriously, 30-40 hours of free childcare per week for children of age 3 and 4? Is that collectively??? Where the hell is the money going to come from for that? Way to go to get the families on board though! Why not just extend it to all kids under primary age so we can get the whole country back to work if this is only an IDEA of what the SNP would like to happen?

Clearly you're a 'yes' man, the abundance of which seems to be whats allowed Salmond and Sturgeon to come up with these ideas.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

......

......"

The SNP could do this today if they chose. What they can't explain is where the money will come from or where the jobs for these newly liberated mothers will come from.

Jam tomorrow, as usual.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Firstly I am Scottish through and through and I will always be.

Good news ...Alex S has clearly said that if a Yes vote is given by the people then we will all benefit from the system, equality will be the key and he is right.... We will all be broke, homeless, uneducated, starving and living a third world country.... come on lets be real its the tax payers and hard workers that will end up paying for something we do not want or need.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 26/11/13 19:53:26]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

PS ... and who is paying for the white paper to be published? Who is paying for the vote and all the publicity that goes with it? Who is paying for the all the legal arguments to be heard is the courts throughout Europe?... Yip US , you and me... the tax payer... Why not use all this money by investing it in our nation and make us a proud people ... NOT broken and penniless.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

'For instance, we have promoted what we call a "social wage" for our citizens. We have made a conscious decision to provide certain core universal services, rights and benefits, some of which are no longer prioritised by political leaders elsewhere in the UK – such as free university tuition, no prescription charges, and free personal care for the elderly.

We do this because we believe such services benefit the common weal. They provide a sense of security, wellbeing and equity within communities. Such a sense of security is vital to a sense of confidence – and as we have seen over the last three years, confidence is essential to economic growth.

We will provide a secure, stable and inclusive society. And by doing so we will encourage talent and ambition. Scotland will be a place people want to visit, invest, work and live in. Doing this has required some difficult decisions – such as major efficiency savings and a freeze in public sector pay. But those are easier to implement if your policies clearly have fairness at their heart.

The concept of a social wage exemplifies one reason why people in Scotland want additional powers for their parliament: they largely like what we have done with the powers we already have.' - A Salmond

Basically, jobs will go in the public sector and wages won't increase. All to pay for benefits etc...

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

As I said above

Anyone who watched Our Friends in the North will know the Nordic model isn't all Mr Salmond would like us to think it is.

It's on BBC iplayer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i am a geordie, i think mel gibson should be president/prime minister of Scotland as his accent in Braveheart was ace!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes

The blueprint has missed to include fabs

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By *eatherWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

im still a big NO

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By *lueeyes36Man
over a year ago

glasgow

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vote no!!!

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

Its a YES from PP

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

YES.

We are already a 3rd world nation under Government that doesn't really give a shit about what happens north if the border.

What happens when we no longer pay our tax to Westminster and are then given back less than a third as our budget for the year. If we can survive and prosper on the pittance we receive from our Pro Rata share of our own taxes the. How do we do when we cut Westminster out of the equation

Everyone is asking where will the money come from, We the taxpayer pay into the annual UK treasury. What is then distributed pro Rata to each of the four nations that make the Union. Scotland receives less than a third of what we pay in. Cancelling this out and keeping the existing rate of taxation in Scotland will give us a far better lifestyle than we have at present.

Also remember this is not about Alex Salmond or the SNP this is about SCOTLAND and the future of our country

I for one do not wish to be a pensioner living under English Tory rule.

This has happened before, for those who remember 1978-79 when we had an Independence vote only for the Tories to pull the rug away after Scotland voted YES.

They knew then as they know now England cannot exist at its current level without Scottish tax

Look at the GDP and economic figures of all 4 nations and then look at the Union. Scotland is the only one that does not have a deficit every year.

Take our tax away and we will rise as a strong small independent nation. Ireland will then unite and break away completely and England will pull Wales down with them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No here... And interestingly Scotland is experiencing unusually high temperatures, can only be down to all the hot air coming from wee Eck and the poison dwarf

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyone seen a good bullet point version yet?

670 pages of assumptions seems like torture to read

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who gives a shit if we are independant or not?wether we are governed by a tube like salmond or some etonian bum boy like cameron we are all gonna get shafted one way or another

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"PS ... and who is paying for the white paper to be published? Who is paying for the vote and all the publicity that goes with it? Who is paying for the all the legal arguments to be heard is the courts throughout Europe?... Yip US , you and me... the tax payer... Why not use all this money by investing it in our nation and make us a proud people ... NOT broken and penniless."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"
^^^^^^^^^re my last post^^^^^^

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Anyone seen a good bullet point version yet?

670 pages of assumptions seems like torture to read

670 pages and no prices attached.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

"YES.. well put that man..no political party in England giveS a shit about Scotland.especially Tory weasel cunt fannys...they haven't a clue what its like to live like the rest of us and 98% dont even have to pay bills off their way over inflated wages and is just put down on their expenses .i dont like Alex salmond either but no way will he or his party make things worse than they are for the normal person with average wage than David Cameron and his gang of posh.never had their hands dirty in their life ars holes..and any person on an average wage that thinks the Tories are doin the best they can for Us me and you should go move to England and strengthen the Tory rule in England.. x X X

We are already a 3rd world nation under Government that doesn't really give a shit about what happens north if the border.

Also remember this is not about Alex Salmond or the SNP this is about SCOTLAND and the future of our country

I for one do not wish to be a pensioner living under English Tory rule.

This has happened before, for those who remember 1978-79 when we had an Independence vote only for the Tories to pull the rug away after Scotland voted YES.

They knew then as they know now England cannot exist at its current level without Scottish tax

Look at the GDP and economic figures of all 4 nations and then look at the Union. Scotland is the only one that does not have a deficit every year.

Take our tax away and we will rise as a strong small independent nation. Ireland will then unite and break away completely and England will pull Wales down with them "

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

We are already a 3rd world nation under Government that doesn't really give a shit about what happens north if the border.

Also remember this is not about Alex Salmond or the SNP this is about SCOTLAND and the future of our country

I for one do not wish to be a pensioner living under English Tory rule.

This has happened before, for those who remember 1978-79 when we had an Independence vote only for the Tories to pull the rug away after Scotland voted YES.

They knew then as they know now England cannot exist at its current level without Scottish tax

Look at the GDP and economic figures of all 4 nations and then look at the Union. Scotland is the only one that does not have a deficit every year.

Take our tax away and we will rise as a strong small independent nation. Ireland will then unite and break away completely and England will pull Wales down with them "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *utecutieCouple
over a year ago

Leeds

A big AYE from us!!!

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By *anana SplitzMan
over a year ago

Glasgow ish

No from me (M).

Salmond thinks he'll keep Scotland in NATO by pulling the plug on Trident...Wrong

Salmond thinks keeping Sterling is still financial independance when Bank of England will still control interest rates...Wrong

Salmond thinks Scotland will gain automatic entry into EU....Wrong

and thats just 3 points...he also trying to BUY the voters with a few hundred quid in promises...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As has been stated by others, this is one of the most important decisions that we will take as a country and each of us should give it a lot of thought before we enter the voting booth.

There are two parts of this process that disapoint me the first being the negative campaigning which some politicians and other vested interests are indulging in. The second is the amount of misinformation that is being thrown into the mix making it harder to make an informed decision.

which ever decision the country makes next september lets just hope we can rise to the challenges that will follow.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

i just hope you understand.. sometimes the clothes.. do not make the man.. I'll hold on to hope of ... FREEDOM !!

may not be what you want from me.. just the way its got to be... you've gotta give for what you take.... FREEDOM FREEDOM.you've gotta give for what you take... x x X...by GeorDi Michael...(famous Scottish scholar)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i just hope you understand.. sometimes the clothes.. do not make the man.. I'll hold on to hope of ... FREEDOM !!

George michael! Its all greek to me

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By *omma49Man
over a year ago

GLASGOW

best thing to do with the independence white paper is to hang it on the back of the lavatory door, and use it when you run out of Andrex toilet roll, lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Overwelming YES here.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

aye fUK it.. it will be a laugh.!!.ha.. x X X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've become a british citizen less than 2 years ago and lived in Scotland for 5 years. I'd like to add to this debate from an outsider point of view. where I come from, a nation who gave the most expensive price for independance. 1.5 million ppl died in a 7 year unbalanced war. As economically and socially we might not be in a better place today than if we stayed under the rule of France but if there was a referendum asking the nation to become French again and part of France knowing that they will have a better fair lives. I can assure you the results would be something like 99% YES FOR INDEPENDANCE and fuck being ruled by the bastards. If you want your pride you have to earn it and be ready to pay the price for it and make the next generation proud of it. Its that pride and the love for your country and identity and the dignity of being independant that will determine its future.

From a basic point of view Scotland has much potential with fairly small population and good rate of educated people ect ... it can stand on its own and it cant be worse tgan it is under the rule of few oppoetunists. Scotland is a country that fought for its independance centurries ago. Today when you have the chance to decide its fate not by taking arms and giving your lives as a sacrifice as William wallace and others has done but only by having the balls to take the risck of facing the unknown future, taking a pen and ticking YES in a sheet of paper. I dont think u'll be giving too much back for your country. Sorry for the poor English.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

From yesterday's media, going independent is about the amount of free pre school care we can afford. The subject is important as it we free up women to take on jobs that don't exist !!!!

If Scotland drop corporation tax will England drop it further so it will be a race to the bottom !!!

Low corporation tax does not seem to be helping Ireland out of there problems !!!1

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

What worries me in this saga is the uk goverments reluctance to debate the issues...Cameron insists the debate should be between the leaders of the yes and no campaigns ...but surely as elected leader of the united kingdom its HIS job to lead the no campaign and put the uks arguements forward .... something tells me he's scared to come up and debate the issues because he is the leader of the most hated political party up here and could damage the no campaign OR he doesnt have a factual arguement and infact scotland would be better off standing on her own ......

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Not often I feel sorry for Cameron but he can't win here.

If he stays out he's scared and if he joins in he's meddling in Scottish affairs.

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

This isnt just a scottish affair this directly affects the whole of the uk therefore Cameron Must get involved

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"This isnt just a scottish affair this directly affects the whole of the uk therefore Cameron Must get involved

That's one viewpoint. Others might think he should butt out and let Scots decide for ourselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We ......... The people of Scotland decide whether we go Independent or not.

By ALLOWING this referendum to happen, David Cameron has spoken on the behalf of the Union .

One or two of today's "English" based papers printed Salmonds dream is dead. Pure speculation and scaremongering by English hacks who haven't read the paper and listened solely to Alistair Darlings blinkered account. The same Darling that Jihn Swinney has already ripped apart.

Scotland can go alone and YES WE DO HAVE THE FINANCES ALREADY IN PLACE to do it without future North Sea revenue which in its self is unstable.

We already lead the rest of Europe on sustainability with wind and wave farms.

As quoted before many nations smaller and less well off than ours have voted for independence and have not looked back.

The UK Government will try an all out smear campaign now to destroy Salmond because they know they are in trouble if Scotland breaks away. That is why they are not telling their own people the true story.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"We ......... The people of Scotland decide whether we go Independent or not.

By ALLOWING this referendum to happen, David Cameron has spoken on the behalf of the Union .

Scotland can go alone and YES WE DO HAVE THE FINANCES ALREADY IN PLACE to do it without future North Sea revenue which in its self is unstable.

We already lead the rest of Europe on sustainability with wind and wave farms.

As quoted before many nations smaller and less well off than ours have voted for independence and have not looked back.

See? This is what's wrong with this so-called debate.

Why you run out of facts, you substitute block caps. All that's missing is the assertation FACT! at the end of the sentences.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Really tried no to answer here as it's really a waste o time. Everyone is either Aye or Naw. Simples. Other than that it's just a cock fight. It's the Mibbies Aye folks I want to speak to.

Give the general public hard facts and figures and they fall asleep. That's a fact. It's not what they want to know and to be fair, unless it's historical facts (financially), no government on the planet can give you hard facts.

But, here ye go:

http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/does-scotland-have-what-it-takes-be-independent

That's the caps from the above poster back to lower case. Obviously it'll all be fictitious shite because it's come from Yes, just like big king Eck's White Paper eh? Still, least we have Ozzie's Autumn Statement of 'FACTS' to come next week from WM. (Sharrrrrrrrrron!!)

Yes are putting forward a constructive case for independence. Bitter are merely rubbishing everything, with no end of capitalised 'argument', obviously.

Here's another fact though: Carmichael, p45.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

.........y y YEEEE HAAA!!!!. x X X

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..............

..................

That's where Salmond's downfall lies.

He's claiming his positions on Sterling/ interest rates, NATO, EU membership etc as being matters of fact.

It's not. It can't be. It's no more than Salmond's unsubstantiated claim.

That's lying to the people of Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't think he has said 'fact' anywhere at all, re sterling he's said it's in the rUKs interest to remain with a common currency, which it is, given it's trading position with Scotland.

Interest rates, I'll loosely give you, no one can predict them. Agian though, it's in the rUKs interest to keep any interest low between BoE and Scotland in the event of Indy for the same reason as above.

EU, well, rUK trying to get out anyway, so flawed argument really. If we stay in the Uk we won't be in Europe for much longer if Cameron has his way. That separatist argument is acceptable however?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

people don't seem to realise that, like it or not, being out of the EU creates massive restrictions in trading. Spain has already said they wouldn't want an independent scotland in the EU. Others have said here that King Eck hasn't ever said his statements are fact...WRONG and his side kick sturgeon is just as bad. His pal Mr Swinney has also stated that oil revenues are very volatile and thats where King Eck thinks his revenue will come from, they cant even agree on their own policies. FACT is SNP are full of assumptions and nothing else.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

its all foreign scare mongering and if Scotland go independent we ain't all of a sudden goin to be put on the naughty step of Europe...we already are better off than England in lots of ways even if salmond is a fud like the rest of them .can none of the no camp really not see what their trusted friends like Cameron and darling and now the Spanish heed guy are doin...brain washing the easily led and frightened...send them homeward tae think again....other than that i couldn't care less what happens

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Don't think he has said 'fact' anywhere at all, re sterling he's said it's in the rUKs interest to remain with a common currency, which it is, given it's trading position with Scotland.

EU, well, rUK trying to get out anyway, so flawed argument really. If we stay in the Uk we won't be in Europe for much longer if Cameron has his way. That separatist argument is acceptable however?"

No, he's not saying 'fact', he's saying 'common sense says ' or 'its obvious' when neither is true.

He says we'll get all the good stuff and none of the bad. 24x7 good weather all year round and so on. The most astonishing thing is that people believe his nonsense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"people don't seem to realise that, like it or not, being out of the EU creates massive restrictions in trading. Spain has already said they wouldn't want an independent scotland in the EU. Others have said here that King Eck hasn't ever said his statements are fact...WRONG and his side kick sturgeon is just as bad. His pal Mr Swinney has also stated that oil

revenues are very volatile and thats where King Eck thinks his revenue will come from, they cant even agree on their own policies. FACT is SNP are full of assumptions and nothing else."

Read Spanish Pm's quote again and come back to us. He is happy with a 'negotiated independent scotland', his words not mine. Frankly, don't give a shite what Spain, Wales or anywhere else think about what WE want for Scotland. If the shoe was on the other foot (Spain and Gib for example) it would be, and is likewise.

Show me a Salmond quote where he states the above as Fact please?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

revenues are very volatile and thats where King Eck thinks his revenue will come from, they cant even agree on their own policies. FACT is SNP are full of assumptions and nothing else.

Show me a Salmond quote where he states the above as Fact please? "

The key word is 'negotiated'.

Not automatic. Not guarantee.

Negotiated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Don't think he has said 'fact' anywhere at all, re sterling he's said it's in the rUKs interest to remain with a common currency, which it is, given it's trading position with Scotland.

EU, well, rUK trying to get out anyway, so flawed argument really. If we stay in the Uk we won't be in Europe for much longer if Cameron has his way. That separatist argument is acceptable however?

No, he's not saying 'fact', he's saying 'common sense says ' or 'its obvious' when neither is true.

He says we'll get all the good stuff and none of the bad. 24x7 good weather all year round and so on. The most astonishing thing is that people believe his nonsense."

Again, no he hasn't, unless you've read the mainstream Uk press. Everyone in Yes accepts this is a huge change, challenging and that nothing is a given - BUT that the benefits out weigh the risks. Media tells the majority of Labour monkeys otherwise and they all take it as gospel. (Used to vote labour btw)

You just essentially wrote all that in Caps.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

revenues are very volatile and thats where King Eck thinks his revenue will come from, they cant even agree on their own policies. FACT is SNP are full of assumptions and nothing else.

Show me a Salmond quote where he states the above as Fact please?

The key word is 'negotiated'.

Not automatic. Not guarantee.

Negotiated."

Again, no one has said guaranteed - other than the press. Laws have been looked at that suggest it is a given but even that, no side can give a definitive.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

Show me a Salmond quote where he states the above as Fact please?

The key word is 'negotiated'.

Not automatic. Not guarantee.

Negotiated.

Again, no one has said guaranteed - other than the press. Laws have been looked at that suggest it is a given but even that, no side can give a definitive."

EU law suggests otherwise. Indeed, the letter Eck was waving around this lunchtime goes on to say so. He didn't read that bit out.

Those who will actually decide, like the Spanish PM don't agree it'll be alright on the night. The Spanish PM has a vote. Eck doesn't.

Anyway, it's all academic. Even the Separatists know they've lost.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".....

Anyway, it's all academic. Even the Separatists know they've lost.

Typical Ian Smart style Bitter T comeback.

How many people do you know who were Yes and switched? None I'd wager. They're shifting the other way faster than you can wave King Eck's white paper and I've not met an undecided who has gone to the Dark side either.

It ain't over til...

I've certainly got the 19th sept off

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".....

Anyway, it's all academic. Even the Separatists know they've lost.

Typical Ian Smart style Bitter T comeback.

It ain't over til...

I've certainly got the 19th sept off

You'll be able to go and wave Eck and co off at Prestwick Airport - bought especially for that purpose.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

NeVEr mInD tHe bOLLoCkS !! iTs A sWiNdLe !!.

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

"I've become a british citizen less than 2 years ago and lived in Scotland for 5 years. I'd like to add to this debate from an outsider point of view. where I come from, a nation who gave the most expensive price for independance. 1.5 million ppl died in a 7 year unbalanced war. As economically and socially we might not be in a better place today than if we stayed under the rule of France but if there was a referendum asking the nation to become French again and part of France knowing that they will have a better fair lives. I can assure you the results would be something like 99% YES FOR INDEPENDANCE and fuck being ruled by the bastards. If you want your pride you have to earn it and be ready to pay the price for it and make the next generation proud of it. Its that pride and the love for your country and identity and the dignity of being independant that will determine its future.

Ax"

And that folks says all you need , big yes from here. Yet again a forum full of negatives, same peeps with usual negativity,

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

A truth which you don't like is called negativity.

A truth which you do like is called positivity.

The truth is still the truth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yet again a forum full of negatives, same peeps with usual negativity,

When there is no positive case for remaining in the Union presented it's all you will get.

I'm away to get a book from Big Eck's Prestwick WH Smiths to ride out the storm.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Yet again a forum full of negatives, same peeps with usual negativity,

When there is no positive case for remaining in the Union presented it's all you will get.

I'm away to get a book from Big Eck's Prestwick WH Smiths to ride out the storm.

Soon to be renamed WH McSmiths, in line with Tartan Tory propaganda.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yet again a forum full of negatives, same peeps with usual negativity,

When there is no positive case for remaining in the Union presented it's all you will get.

I'm away to get a book from Big Eck's Prestwick WH Smiths to ride out the storm.

Soon to be renamed WH McSmiths, in line with Tartan Tory propaganda."
you make no sense

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A truth which you don't like is called negativity.

A truth which you do like is called positivity.

The truth is still the truth."

Sooner Bitter get a grasp on that the more informed the Scottish Electorate will be then. Mibbes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you make no sense"

Never does, just like Ian Smart and a whole host of other Onioin trolls. No coherent, constructive argument. Ever.

People need to seriously get off their arses and research. If they have a question, go find out about it from multiple sources rather than taking the tabloid tat as gospel, as is more often the case. Watch debates. Like last night, like Michael Moore - watch them get there arses kicked time after time as they have nothing to give. Like flapping fish out of water.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

you make no sense

Never does, just like Ian Smart and a whole host of other Onioin trolls. No coherent, constructive argument. Ever.

I just tell people the truth.

Some of them don't like it, cos it doesn't suit their blinkered vision of the world, but it's the truth none the less.

I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you make no sense

Never does, just like Ian Smart and a whole host of other Onioin trolls. No coherent, constructive argument. Ever.

I just tell people the truth.

Some of them don't like it, cos it doesn't suit their blinkered vision of the world, but it's the truth none the less.

I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO."

u talk sum crap _nny,u mentioned in an earlier post about Alex salmond not reading what was written at the bottom of a letter because he didnt want us to know what it says,so how do u know what was on that letter ? And mind tell the truth

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".....

I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO.

The recipient, J Lind, secretary of Aberdeen SNP has acknowledged the letter was sent to him.

There's a copy on the BBC news website.

Some will insist that means it must be fake. Some insist the earth is flat.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".....

I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO.

The recipient, J Lind, secretary of Aberdeen SNP has acknowledged the letter was sent to him.

There's a copy on the BBC news website.

Some will insist that means it must be fake. Some insist the earth is flat."

oh it must be true if its on BBC website then lol,u still Havent said what was written in the letter cant be arsed looking at website would rather here it from u as u always tell the truth lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".....

I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO.

The recipient, J Lind, secretary of Aberdeen SNP has acknowledged the letter was sent to him.

There's a copy on the BBC news website.

Some will insist that means it must be fake. Some insist the earth is flat.

oh it must be true if its on BBC website then lol,u still Havent said what was written in the letter cant be arsed looking at website would rather here it from u as u always tell the truth lol"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".....

I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO.

The recipient, J Lind, secretary of Aberdeen SNP has acknowledged the letter was sent to him.

There's a copy on the BBC news website.

Some will insist that means it must be fake. Some insist the earth is flat.

oh it must be true if its on BBC website then lol,u still Havent said what was written in the letter cant be arsed looking at website would rather here it from u as u always tell the truth lol"

What they both said. The BBC, that font of unbiased media. Why would anyone ever doubt its content.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".....

I don't promise people stuff I can't guarantee to deliver. Stuff like the £ Sterling, membership of the EU or NATO.

The recipient, J Lind, secretary of Aberdeen SNP has acknowledged the letter was sent to him.

There's a copy on the BBC news website.

Some will insist that means it must be fake. Some insist the earth is flat.

oh it must be true if its on BBC website then lol,u still Havent said what was written in the letter cant be arsed looking at website would rather here it from u as u always tell the truth lol

What they both said. The BBC, that font of unbiased media. Why would anyone ever doubt its content. "

As you said (above). Do your research. Check out multiple sources.

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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley

There's a lot that has to be sorted out. As the original post said it's like conjoined twins.

What happens to charity donations that are national charities? Do they stop their support for Scotland and then we only have our own charities.

Professional registrations for nurses, doctors, dentists, and any other profession that has a governing body - how will they be affected?

Passports, driving licences, tax office, benefits, etc how will they be administered? Will we have to administrate and fund our own offices?

There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There's a lot that has to be sorted out. As the original post said it's like conjoined twins.

What happens to charity donations that are national charities? Do they stop their support for Scotland and then we only have our own charities.

Professional registrations for nurses, doctors, dentists, and any other profession that has a governing body - how will they be affected?

Passports, driving licences, tax office, benefits, etc how will they be administered? Will we have to administrate and fund our own offices?

There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned."

Most charity donations specify which countries they serve. rSPCc for example do eng and wales. sSPCC Scotland.

NHS already out domain. So no change.

Passports, once your UK one runs out you get a Scottish one. Dvla etc will be the same, once a Scottish government is established etc (obvious I'm just wishing this and it's all faerie stories yada yada). I'm no expert but I'm sure there will be a crossover. Can't, to be fair, be any more incompetent than the current system.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned."

They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......

There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned.

They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep."

surely that applies to all politicians _nny. Or is it only if your a sepratist.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned.

They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep.

surely that applies to all politicians _nny. Or is it only if your a sepratist."

Falcon's question was re the aftermath of separation.

Since the Separatists cant answer basic questions about the currency etc, why should anyone take them seriously on anything?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......

There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned.

They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep.

surely that applies to all politicians _nny. Or is it only if your a sepratist.

Falcon's question was re the aftermath of separation.

Since the Separatists cant answer basic questions about the currency etc, why should anyone take them seriously on anything?"

that wasnt my question, does that make you a seperatist seeing as you seem unable to answer me

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned.

They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep.

surely that applies to all politicians _nny. Or is it only if your a sepratist.

Falcon's question was re the aftermath of separation.

Since the Separatists cant answer basic questions about the currency etc, why should anyone take them seriously on anything?

that wasnt my question, does that make you a seperatist seeing as you seem unable to answer me

I know there are no definitive answers. I don't pretend there are definitive answers.

Eck's the one trying to pull the wool over people's eyes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......

There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned.

They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep.

surely that applies to all politicians _nny. Or is it only if your a sepratist.

Falcon's question was re the aftermath of separation.

Since the Separatists cant answer basic questions about the currency etc, why should anyone take them seriously on anything?"

Given the 'non seperatists' refusal to engage until the deed is done its pretty fucking difficult would you not agree? (Slaps Heid wi a mash hammer)

The 'seperatists' have given constructive proposals at every turn. We get from 'No' is 'naw ye cannae'. No substance, nothing constructive. Well, just plain nothing to be fair.

Anyhoo, am pished, away from home and my fucking gorgeous wife and gagging on the elusive good looking Bi male meet, so richt noo, better (me an us the gither) things to be cracking off, sorry, on with.

Sept 19th will be a gid day.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

Anyhoo, am pished, .........."

I'd never have guessed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......

There are numerous questions that haven't been answered as far as I'm concerned.

They won't be. The Separatists have no answers - only vague promises which they can't guarantee to keep.

surely that applies to all politicians _nny. Or is it only if your a sepratist.

Falcon's question was re the aftermath of separation.

Since the Separatists cant answer basic questions about the currency etc, why should anyone take them seriously on anything?

that wasnt my question, does that make you a seperatist seeing as you seem unable to answer me

I know there are no definitive answers. I don't pretend there are definitive answers.

Eck's the one trying to pull the wool over people's eyes."

Onny, i saw a post you put on another thread about people who become entrenched in their thinking and i agree with you on that subject. Dont you think that the same should apply here ? You seem to have this entrenched position where you dig at nationalist politicians but are unwilling to aknowledge that the other side are just the same. Do you honestly think that alistair darling and his no campaign team are giving straight forward answers to the questions put to them ?

The truth is they have all been feeding us misinformation in order to try and convince us to back their side.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......

Anyhoo, am pished, ..........

I'd never have guessed."

Again Sir. Astounding comeback in the absence of, well, anything constructive to be fair.

See you in the morning and I can be Sturgeon, you can be Carmichael or Moore again. It's a good game. Love a wee bit of role play.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ohhhhhh noooooo, they all said 'naw yer no gittin' th poond, no way, like, evur, no even up for discussion.'

Aye, likely. Just like the Falklands and Isle o man.

http://ow.ly/i/3RYoH

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

"A truth which you don't like is called negativity.

A truth which you do like is called positivity.

The truth is still the truth."

Lol bit contradictory to an earlier post, Mmmm o yes it went like this , A truth is neither positive nor negative just a truth lol,

Anyways peeps, the vote is about the opportunity to be independent , irrespective of the mundane pish surrounding it, it about the scottish people voicing their opinion to be ruled by themselves, There is no fact to the question that if we vote for it that we shall get it , also it doesnt matter about alec salmond, if we were to get independence , where does it say he will be leading the scottish govt, everything surrounding the vote is based on opinion, no one can guarantee either the positives nor the negatives of going it alone, but atleast we have been given the opportunity to voice our opinions in regards to being led by an english govt. lets take it and see what happens . FREEDOM lol

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

Now theres a turn up for the books....the no campaign say ..NO WAY scotland can stay in the pound ...... yet ....The Bank Of England are already in talks with the scottish gov and can see no problem with it happening and would welcome it IF Scotland vote yes

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

As i see it so far we have... on 1 side the nationalists and yes campaign with their white paper which is basicly a manifesto of what can be achieved and what the snp would introduce following a yes vote .....on the other side you have the no campaign who have so far added nothing constructive to the debate other than scare mongering .....

Now .... lets say scotland votes yes....do you think for 1 minute all these scare mongerers will leave scotland for a better future down south.......NO they will work tirelessly for 18 months putting together their own manifesto for the new independent Scotland and each 1 will try and out do the promises of the snp ....which will infact blow everything they say up until then rite out the water

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Now theres a turn up for the books....the no campaign say ..NO WAY scotland can stay in the pound ...... yet ....The Bank Of England are already in talks with the scottish gov and can see no problem with it happening and would welcome it IF Scotland vote yes

That's the kind of made up nonsense which the Separatists love.

Anyone who listens to what Carney actually said

“I have not had any discussions with members of the Scottish Government. My predecessor did have some basic discussions with Mr Salmond. I certainly welcome the opportunity to have those discussions.”

knows differently.

Nothing about 'no problem with it happening' or 'would welcome it IF Scotland vote yes'.

The original video is on the Bank of England and the BBC websites, although I suppose some will thinks they've been doctored too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..............

That's where Salmond's downfall lies.

He's claiming his positions on Sterling/ interest rates, NATO, EU membership etc as being matters of fact.

It's not. It can't be. It's no more than Salmond's unsubstantiated claim.

That's lying to the people of Scotland."

Well, not any more than the Unionist position is. Stating one's perception of a position and backing it up with strong argument is not lying, it's what politics is all about. And particularly on both the Currency and EU issue the UK government are the ones withholding facts from Scotland. EU has said they won't comment on the position until the UK government, as the present incumbent of power in these islands, asks them to. They refuse to do so. They could be clear on the currency Union but again refuse to do so.

As far as the lies spread about EU membership read this: http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/8403-the-rajoy-intervention-and-why-the-traditional-media-cannot-now-be-trusted

Oh, and yet again, voting Yes is NOT a vote for Alex Salmond, the SNP or any one kind of future. It's about having government by and for the people governed or government pandering to the South of England, the banks & the multi-nationals. Stick with the corrupt, class-ridden morally bankrupt status-quo or try to forge a new future and take our own path.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..............

That's where Salmond's downfall lies.

He's claiming his positions on Sterling/ interest rates, NATO, EU membership etc as being matters of fact.

It's not. It can't be. It's no more than Salmond's unsubstantiated claim.

That's lying to the people of Scotland.

Well, not any more than the Unionist position is. Stating one's perception of a position and backing it up with strong argument is not lying, it's what politics is all about. ............"

Telling people 'this' will happen or 'that' will happen when the truth (remember truth?) is this or that 'might' happen?

Promising what you can't guarantee to deliver is lying.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......

Since the Separatists cant answer basic questions about the currency etc, why should anyone take them seriously on anything?"

This thread starts with a link to an excellent page answering all the questions the Unionists keep saying aren't being answered.

It's the same tactic the Tories employed in the miners' strike that Spitting Image so brilliantly lampooned. Kinnock stands up in parliament, condemns the violence. Thatcher Stands up and says, "Yes that's all very well, but why does the Honourable gentlemen not condemn this despicable violence?" Repeat for 5 minutes, which was basically what they did then and many people believed that the Labour Party refused to condemn the violence on the picket lines. (Of course, now we're getting to hear how it was agitated and provoked by the police under government orders, but hey ho!). Same thing now. Better Together and the media just keep saying there are no facts which is only true when they're talking about things that no one can say for certain. Where there are facts they just don't report them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..............

Promising what you can't guarantee to deliver is lying."

Yes campaign have not promised any of these things. They have stated them as their position on these matters and when told it won't happen have refuted the outright lies spouted by Bitter Together as to why they are impossible. No one has ever, at any time, said we guarantee this, especially as it will be up to the people of Scotland to decide if they even want to follow any of these ideas after independence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For those looking for answers:

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/4341-a-unionist-lexicon-an-a-z-of-unionist-scare-stories-myths-and-misinformation

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..............

Promising what you can't guarantee to deliver is lying.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"For those looking for answers:

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/4341-a-unionist-lexicon-an-a-z-of-unionist-scare-stories-myths-and-misinformation"

Newsnet Scotland is an SNP owned and run website.

It's their equivalent of Pravda and Izvestia.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..............

Promising what you can't guarantee to deliver is lying.

So, you accept the Yes campaigners CAN'T guarantee to keep the £ Sterling, EU membership, NATO membership and so on?

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

the EngliSh already dont like accePting the Scottish pound...or are my spies correct and the nearer we get to the referendum they stil look at it funny but starting to accept,..?. mm i wonder what that could mean...??..accepting through gritted teeth...so whats new??. x x X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

90% of scots dont like the Torie's

hence why there is only 1 Torrie mp in scotland

an will vote for an yes SCOTLAND

but for some saying they wont vote for it

an dont think of there children future

Scotland will be one of the poorest countries in the uk thanks for the Torrie government who are 350 miles away

think about

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

David Hayman sums up my thoughts on the matter pretty much perfectly

http://nationalcollective.com/2013/11/24/declaration-of-radical-independence-full-text/

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

In a move which beggars belief, Angus Robertson MP has suggested delaying the UK 2015 general election for a year because everyone will be too busy discussing Scottish independence.

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