FabSwingers.com forum: Bedroom tax

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Found myself doing something i thought i would n e v e r do, yesterday!!

That was, totally agreeing with Mr Tommy Sheridan with his campaign on this tax.

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

Gimme a brief synopsis deebs cannae be arsed googling.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'll always respect Tommy for fighting for the common person and going to jail for his beliefs , I was in touch with him during the poll tax demos and stand by him yet no matter what else the papers throw at him

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Why they calling it a tax?

Thats annoying me!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are too many myths about this. One is that it is not a bedroom tax. Another is that disabled people have to pay it. If they need a carer they get exemption. True it has been implemented wrongly. There should be a period of exemtion for people who lose their jobs. But in general if you live alone and dont have any intention of working why should the taxpayer pay for a big house for you whilst young working familes need them. If I cant affird my mortgage for any reason I have to sell my house and get a smaller one so why shouldnt everyone?

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

I agree with it....

But they should have given more time....

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

"There are too many myths about this. One is that it is not a bedroom tax.

Its not a tax though...

Its just a new calculation on housing benefit....

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

I think that if they could offer everyone that has extra bedrooms a smaller place then fair enough but there aren't any smaller places for all these people to move to, yet they are still having to pay!! It's unfair to charge folk for something that's out with their control

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are too many myths about this. One is that it is not a bedroom tax. Another is that disabled people have to pay it. If they need a carer they get exemption. True it has been implemented wrongly. There should be a period of exemtion for people who lose their jobs. But in general if you live alone and dont have any intention of working why should the taxpayer pay for a big house for you whilst young working familes need them. If I cant affird my mortgage for any reason I have to sell my house and get a smaller one so why shouldnt everyone?

Can I politely ask if you where you get your information on disabled people being exempt if they need a carer ?

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

I think there is a period of expemtion if youve lost your job. Also a period of exemption if someone has died.

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

"I think that if they could offer everyone that has extra bedrooms a smaller place then fair enough but there aren't any smaller places for all these people to move to, yet they are still having to pay!! It's unfair to charge folk for something that's out with their control

Glasgow City Council are actually buying one bedroom flats to attempt to fix this...

Will be interesting to see how it works out...

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Also a period of exemption if someone has died."

Yea 13 weeks....

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

Glasgow City Council are actually buying one bedroom flats to attempt to fix this...

Will be interesting to see how it works out..."

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

[Removed by poster at 30/03/13 12:46:00]

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

And what about dads that get their kids at weekends... How is that going to work?

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

"And what about dads that get their kids at weekends... How is that going to work? "

Nope......doesnt count..

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Thats exactly it, and Tommy was well clued up on radio scotland yesterday, they put him up against some Alex somebody who thought you simply pick a smaller place nae bother.

Good if disabled folks are exempt but councils are firing the letters telling them it will apply to them regardless, but to then contact them to explain their circs, a bit upside down, im sure councils have knowledge of who is dissabled etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do people also realise what this new "housing benefit" , "bedroom tax" are also thinking of introducing ! I was told that since I have more bedrooms than I need they may introduce someone else who is on benefits to "house share " eh don't think so ! That there is also such a shortage in one bedroom flats they may have to move me 20 miles from my family etc , I have paid my taxes like most people for over 30 years then through no fault of mine they want to uproot me from a house I've lived in for over 25 years !

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

We all got letters last year from all our respective councils making us aware of this?

Nope.

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

"And what about dads that get their kids at weekends... How is that going to work?

Nope......doesnt count.."

So they have to pay or move?? My brother has 4 kids that stay every weekend and often more...he does actually work and pays full rent but if he lost his job I Can't see how they could all fit into a 1 bed flat... Seems very unfair to effectively stop them from being able to stay with him

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

"We all got letters last year from all our respective councils making us aware of this?

Nope."

You should have....

Most of the people I know were sent excemption forms about 2 weeks after the initial letter...

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Not all disabled people are exempt....

Depends on each ones circumstance..

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Can I politely ask if you where you get your information on disabled people being exempt if they need a carer ?

If they require 24hrs care that includes over night stays....They are, as bedroom is required for carer...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have always supported him right from the poll tax demos marched alongaside him backthen

And got to agree with him again on this tax

Ps not sure about him going to swinging

Clubs though perv lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can I politely ask if you where you get your information on disabled people being exempt if they need a carer ?

If they require 24hrs care that includes over night stays....They are, as bedroom is required for carer..."

Not what I've been told

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Can I politely ask if you where you get your information on disabled people being exempt if they need a carer ?

If they require 24hrs care that includes over night stays....They are, as bedroom is required for carer...

Not what I've been told "

Im talking about a paid carer, support worker...

Anyone that requires this and thinks differently should be contacting their local council...

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Can I politely ask if you where you get your information on disabled people being exempt if they need a carer ?

If they require 24hrs care that includes over night stays....They are, as bedroom is required for carer...

Not what I've been told

Im talking about a paid carer, support worker...

Anyone that requires this and thinks differently should be contacting their local council..."

Think about it....

Anyone requiring 24hr care does not live alone!

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

It's seems to be a great idea - get large families out of overcrowding by getting over occupied houses freed up. However, like so many other things, very very badly thought out. Thy need to move over half a million people out yet there are no where near enough small places available. Typical beurocratic rubbish. Ill thought out ideas with the poorest in society paying for the price for it

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

Can I politely ask if you where you get your information on disabled people being exempt if they need a carer ?

If they require 24hrs care that includes over night stays....They are, as bedroom is required for carer...

Not what I've been told

Im talking about a paid carer, support worker...

Anyone that requires this and thinks differently should be contacting their local council...

Think about it....

Anyone requiring 24hr care does not live alone!"

But as no MP needs a full time live in carer - they never thought about it!!!

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

But as no MP needs a full time live in carer - they never thought about it!!!

Most of them need carers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can I politely ask if you where you get your information on disabled people being exempt if they need a carer ?

If they require 24hrs care that includes over night stays....They are, as bedroom is required for carer..."

It doesnt not have to be 24 hour care. If disabled people have reason to require the extra space due to their disabilites for whatever reason they can apply for exemption

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Can I politely ask if you where you get your information on disabled people being exempt if they need a carer ?

If they require 24hrs care that includes over night stays....They are, as bedroom is required for carer...

It doesnt not have to be 24 hour care. If disabled people have reason to require the extra space due to their disabilites for whatever reason they can apply for exemption"

I know, but they were asking about ones with carers..

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You can listen to the debate on Call Kaye on radio scotland from yesterday, 29th march.

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

How many of the people on this forum who are for the bedroom tax have actually been affected by it?

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

"How many of the people on this forum who are for the bedroom tax have actually been affected by it?"

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

This has all come about because of a serious lack of council housing stock which has been sold on ...what happened to all the money the councils pocketed with these sales....new housing stock ? .....no

Also councils keep selling off land to house builders for private sector why? Why not build new stock...?

So joe bloggs will now foot the bill for their councils failures AGAIN

Yes I agree that some properties should move hands to even things out a little but they are going about it in a completely fucked up way yet again

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Im just glad im HA and not council....

The HA have been great and iv seen nothing but removal vans the past few weeks...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what does this bedroom tax mean if ya own your own house and are not on benefits it doesnt affect you does it

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

"what does this bedroom tax mean if ya own your own house and are not on benefits it doesnt affect you does it

No....

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Only affects those on housing benefit..

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By *mumaWoman
over a year ago

Livingston

Blonde question: Does this "tax" only affect Council tenants.

I'm with a Housing Association and have never been formally notified of any changes.

*Blonde moment over....

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

"Blonde question: Does this "tax" only affect Council tenants.

I'm with a Housing Association and have never been formally notified of any changes.

*Blonde moment over...."

Anyone getting housing benefit...

If you pay your own rent, wont make any difference...

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Just dont lose your job!!!

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By *mumaWoman
over a year ago

Livingston

"Blonde question: Does this "tax" only affect Council tenants.

I'm with a Housing Association and have never been formally notified of any changes.

*Blonde moment over....

Anyone getting housing benefit...

If you pay your own rent, wont make any difference..."

Thank you. That's me fecked then lol

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By *cotsbicoupleCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

OK...

So firstly, no you're right, it's not a tax.

Everyone's calling it a tax because it feels like one, and it's unjust, bust mostly just because it's harder to squeeze "benefit readjustment" on a placard/headline.

This, not to get too political, is a great example of the Tory UK Govt. doing things based on the situation in England (specifically London) that make no sense at all in Scotland (and we didn't even vote Tory). If ever you needed a good reason for independence, this is it.

Anyway; the point of the bedroom tax, is to force people who are on benefits to "downsize" into smaller houses/flats, freeing up space for larger families.

Unfortunately, whilst the Scottish housing stock is a lot better off than London, we do have a SEVERE shortage of 1-bedroom properties, especially in public/Registered Social Landlord (RSL's) hands. Why? Because the Scottish Government, and before that various local councils, have spent the last 20+ years eliminating slum landlords and bedsits.

THIS IS A GOOD THING!!

We should not have our population in sub-standard housing, living in tiny boxrooms with a storage heater and a hotplate.

Now the tories have come along and are gonna start undoing all our hard work.

This means that people who are affected will be told to "downsize", and there are no properties to downsize to. They will end up in rent arrears, and some will be made homeless because of it. Once you're evicted from a council or RSL house, you are ineligible for getting another for a certain period. Your benefits will likely be sanctioned (since DWP is actively trying to kick people off JSA, and is giving its staff prizes to sanction folks for not looking for work. Good luck finding a job when you're homeless). THis will mean there are people who have nothing, no home, no money, and nothing to lose. Food riots coming to a town near you, soon.

We should be trying to eliminate this stupid idea, absolutely. It will not save any money in the medium to long term. It will cause untold misery to thousands.

But the Tories don't care. They are on an idealogical quest to punish and tax the unworthy poor, whilst giving their rich friends a tax break.

If you're disabled, you will likely NOT get an exemption. Contact your RSL or Council to try, but don't hold your breath.

If you have been deemed as having an "extra" bedroom, you will have a 14% cut in your housing benefit. If you rent is, say, £400 a month, that's a £56 payment you'll have to find.

If you have two extra bedrooms, it goes up to 25% (so that's £100 a month on the £400 rent).

If you're a single person with kids that visit, I really am sorry; you're stuffed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i have one bedroom the now looking for extra room i would b willing to pay it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK...

So firstly, no you're right, it's not a tax.

Everyone's calling it a tax because it feels like one, and it's unjust, bust mostly just because it's harder to squeeze "benefit readjustment" on a placard/headline.

Anyway; the point of the bedroom tax, is to force people who are on benefits to "downsize" into smaller houses/flats, freeing up space for larger families.

THIS IS A GOOD THING!!

We should not have our population in sub-standard housing, living in tiny boxrooms with a storage heater and a hotplate.

Now the tories have come along and are gonna start undoing all our hard work.

We should be trying to eliminate this stupid idea, absolutely. It will not save any money in the medium to long term. It will cause untold misery to thousands.

But the Tories don't care. They are on an idealogical quest to punish and tax the unworthy poor, whilst giving their rich friends a tax break.

If you're disabled, you will likely NOT get an exemption. Contact your RSL or Council to try, but don't hold your breath.

If you have been deemed as having an "extra" bedroom, you will have a 14% cut in your housing benefit. If you rent is, say, £400 a month, that's a £56 payment you'll have to find.

If you have two extra bedrooms, it goes up to 25% (so that's £100 a month on the £400 rent).

If you're a single person with kids that visit, I really am sorry; you're stuffed. "

Well said and well informed

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The government are to lose £1300 million income due to their tax cut of the wealthiest in Britain, they stand to get back £500million from this bedroom tax thing.

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

Like I said earlier, the idea of moving over crowded families into bigger properties by making people downsize is quite a good idea - however, its being done in such a shabby way it will hurt hundreds of thousands of people

Moving is an expensive business, so even if you could find a smaller place to downsize into, 99% of people simply can't afford to. So you have a situation where poor people are stuck!! Pay up or else!! They will either end up evicted or simply pay the extra money by spending less on heating or food. So people will either starve to pay it or freeze!! It's a stark choice - but what would you do if you couldn't afford to move????

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..........Unfortunately, whilst the Scottish housing stock is a lot better off than London, we do have a SEVERE shortage of 1-bedroom properties, especially in public/Registered Social Landlord (RSL's) hands. Why? Because the Scottish Government, and before that various local councils, have spent the last 20+ years eliminating slum landlords and bedsits.

THIS IS A GOOD THING!!

We should not have our population in sub-standard housing, living in tiny boxrooms with a storage heater and a hotplate.

.................. "

I'm guessing you've not been in Govanhill, in the heart of Nicola Sturgeon's constituency, recently.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just dont lose your job!!!

Doesn't matter if I do, I worked hard when I was younger and bought a house for cash. So it's mine and nobody can take it off me.

Instead of all the doom and gloom merchants saying this is a tax on the poor, isn't it better to use it as an incentive to better yourself, get off housing benefit and go and buy your own property?

Just sayin'

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

"Just dont lose your job!!!

Doesn't matter if I do, I worked hard when I was younger and bought a house for cash. So it's mine and nobody can take it off me.

Instead of all the doom and gloom merchants saying this is a tax on the poor, isn't it better to use it as an incentive to better yourself, get off housing benefit and go and buy your own property?

Just sayin'"

Good idea in principle, unfortunately, most people don't get paid enough to do that and even if they could scrape the money together the banks have screwed lending right up now. So unless you're an MP or a mate of one or a banker, times are very tough

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

"Just dont lose your job!!!

Doesn't matter if I do, I worked hard when I was younger and bought a house for cash. So it's mine and nobody can take it off me.

Instead of all the doom and gloom merchants saying this is a tax on the poor, isn't it better to use it as an incentive to better yourself, get off housing benefit and go and buy your own property?

Just sayin'"

OMG! Why didnt I think of that!

Will get a job on Monday, because I havent bothered my arse to look for one in 18 months...and with my first wage will go straight to bank for a mortgage!!!

Gawd, Im glad people like you are about, what we do without you!!

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By *mumaWoman
over a year ago

Livingston

"Just dont lose your job!!!

Doesn't matter if I do, I worked hard when I was younger and bought a house for cash. So it's mine and nobody can take it off me.

Instead of all the doom and gloom merchants saying this is a tax on the poor, isn't it better to use it as an incentive to better yourself, get off housing benefit and go and buy your own property?

Just sayin'"

Are you for fucking real????

Not everyone is in the situation that they can buy/own their property...

According to you, I need to get off my arse and off benefits to find a job?

What job would you suggest I get? Bearing in mind that I can barely walk, need two new hips, on crutches, only have 60% use of my right hand (yeah, the writing one), clinical insomnia..

Shall I go on?

So what job?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just dont lose your job!!!

Doesn't matter if I do, I worked hard when I was younger and bought a house for cash. So it's mine and nobody can take it off me.

Instead of all the doom and gloom merchants saying this is a tax on the poor, isn't it better to use it as an incentive to better yourself, get off housing benefit and go and buy your own property?

Just sayin'

OMG! Why didnt I think of that!

Will get a job on Monday, because I havent bothered my arse to look for one in 18 months...and with my first wage will go straight to bank for a mortgage!!!

Gawd, Im glad people like you are about, what we do without you!!

This just proves that there are people out there who seem determined to let the simple things in life defeat them.

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

As ATOS told me countless times, " nowt wrong with you" then ticked their little box that made me a liar, and them a bonus for kicking yet one more so called "disabled" layabout off benefits.

As they told that poor soldier who came back with PTSD and NO LEGS. He can still type..... So go get an admin job. I guess to them there is a Job for everyone, even for we who have been forbidden by REAL Medical professionals.

It's scary to think that the Westminster government not only don't care that you cannot live without support, but they actively encourage making you WORSE!

Single bedroom accommodation has its uses, but it is not for the people they are trying to get to use them. Even as a single person, having minimum living space has been shown to cause mental health issues. In couples, cramped conditions often lead to such a high level of stress that the relationships break down. I thought as a nation we wanted to go forward not backward?

I would suggest taking a good look at the people being adversely affected by this, instead of just assuming that we could all work our way out of it if we just tried a little harder.......

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

"Just dont lose your job!!!

Doesn't matter if I do, I worked hard when I was younger and bought a house for cash. So it's mine and nobody can take it off me.

Instead of all the doom and gloom merchants saying this is a tax on the poor, isn't it better to use it as an incentive to better yourself, get off housing benefit and go and buy your own property?

Just sayin'

OMG! Why didnt I think of that!

Will get a job on Monday, because I havent bothered my arse to look for one in 18 months...and with my first wage will go straight to bank for a mortgage!!!

Gawd, Im glad people like you are about, what we do without you!!

This just proves that there are people out there who seem determined to let the simple things in life defeat them.

Oh my god.... This just goes to prove that there are some people so out of touch with what's happening in this country at the moment... And no I'm not on benefits so this won't affect me but it certainly doesn't stop me understanding what the effect of this will have on some people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My brother has cystic fibrosis and is in a wheelchair. He should, according to the social work department, be in sheltered accommodation but his local council didn't have any houses available so they adapted a 2 bed ground floor cottage flat for him 3 years ago. Ramps, kitchen, bathroom etc

My parents stay close by so he doesn't have a carer.

He has a mental age of about 14 and is in and out of hospital with numerous complications.

He is going to lose 14% of his housing benefit!

The council had no 1 bed properties to give him and still don't.

The craziest thing is that his rent is £250 a month for his 2 bed council house. However if he went and got a private let 1 bed property housing benefit would pay up to £350 a month for it. Oh and the social work dept would pay to convert it too!

In principal I do agree that social housing should be 'fit for family' I.e a single person or couple should not be living in a 3 or 4 bed house when larger families are overcrowded. I would even go as far as saying that people should be made to downsize when their kids grow up and leave home BUT this 'bedroom tax' hasn't been thought thro properly.

When the majority of social housing is 2 bedroom properties then it is silly to punish people for living in the only properties available to them.

L xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Just dont lose your job!!!

Doesn't matter if I do, I worked hard when I was younger and bought a house for cash. So it's mine and nobody can take it off me.

Instead of all the doom and gloom merchants saying this is a tax on the poor, isn't it better to use it as an incentive to better yourself, get off housing benefit and go and buy your own property?

Just sayin'"

Im very fortunate in that i have a job, but that does not stop me recognising injustce and this is pretty much the closest thing to it.

This week i have a job, hopefully next week too i still will have a job, thats the general outlook for a lot of people.

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By *akedninjaMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

Aha tommy Sheridan..what a great and most pleasant fella he is...he should be the poster boy for fab

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

as an aside the scottish parliment dont want this my situation me two kids on court orders scotish law says i need two bedrooms uk law i only need one so i downscale im breaking scottish law stay where i am and refuse to pay im breaking uk law the usual half hearted attempt by a government to keep the masses happy without any forethought into what they are doing

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

"Just dont lose your job!!!

Doesn't matter if I do, I worked hard when I was younger and bought a house for cash. So it's mine and nobody can take it off me.

Instead of all the doom and gloom merchants saying this is a tax on the poor, isn't it better to use it as an incentive to better yourself, get off housing benefit and go and buy your own property?

Just sayin'

Im very fortunate in that i have a job, but that does not stop me recognising injustce and this is pretty much the closest thing to it.

This week i have a job, hopefully next week too i still will have a job, thats the general outlook for a lot of people."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think its crap what the government is doing its their way of legally stealing our money and im not one bit surprised.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think its crap what the government is doing its their way of legally stealing our money and im not one bit surprised. "
there stealing our money so they can pay for the mod for the next war against the north korea -

lets make love not war - i for wont be paying it don't gie a monkeys an wont get a further penny fae me at the end of the day go ahead an active me labor says it wont happen to those that don't pay what then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Glasgow City Council are actually buying one bedroom flats to attempt to fix this...

Will be interesting to see how it works out...

Glasgow city council has had no housing stock for 10 years

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Glasgow City Council are actually buying one bedroom flats to attempt to fix this...

Will be interesting to see how it works out...

Glasgow city council has had no housing stock for 10 years"

Thats similar country-wide, a certain government years ago encouraged everyone to buy your council house if you like it and want it, they never ever thought to replace those bought, and now in the middle of a recession, when very few have,,,,money generally. they invent a charge thats meant to encourage you to go smaller house hunting,,awsome!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lets look at this the other way. As someone who has worked all my life and am now self employed I required surgery to remove a tumour from the base of my brain. I have a mnortgage. I lost ALL of my income for 4 months. I got £65 in total whilst I was off. Nobody paid for any bedrooms for me let alone a spare room. If I had been on benefits I would have been on easy street as I would have received all my usual benefits and probably extra ones for being ill.I had to get o with it. All people are being asked to pay here is £14 per week or something. Cut down on luxuries and you will soon find £14. Stop expecting the country to wipe your arse

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets look at this the other way. As someone who has worked all my life and am now self employed I required surgery to remove a tumour from the base of my brain. I have a mnortgage. I lost ALL of my income for 4 months. I got £65 in total whilst I was off. Nobody paid for any bedrooms for me let alone a spare room. If I had been on benefits I would have been on easy street as I would have received all my usual benefits and probably extra ones for being ill.I had to get o with it. All people are being asked to pay here is £14 per week or something. Cut down on luxuries and you will soon find £14. Stop expecting the country to wipe your arse"
£14 is a lot of money if u have a lot kids, as i said before i wont be paying it no matter, n they can evict me if they want but i just sue them as the promise of labour councilors said no 1 will get evicted

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets look at this the other way. As someone who has worked all my life and am now self employed I required surgery to remove a tumour from the base of my brain. I have a mnortgage. I lost ALL of my income for 4 months. I got £65 in total whilst I was off. Nobody paid for any bedrooms for me let alone a spare room. If I had been on benefits I would have been on easy street as I would have received all my usual benefits and probably extra ones for being ill.I had to get o with it. All people are being asked to pay here is £14 per week or something. Cut down on luxuries and you will soon find £14. Stop expecting the country to wipe your arse£14 is a lot of money if u have a lot kids, as i said before i wont be paying it no matter, n they can evict me if they want but i just sue them as the promise of labour councilors said no 1 will get evicted"

Well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets look at this the other way. As someone who has worked all my life and am now self employed I required surgery to remove a tumour from the base of my brain. I have a mnortgage. I lost ALL of my income for 4 months. I got £65 in total whilst I was off. Nobody paid for any bedrooms for me let alone a spare room. If I had been on benefits I would have been on easy street as I would have received all my usual benefits and probably extra ones for being ill.I had to get o with it. All people are being asked to pay here is £14 per week or something. Cut down on luxuries and you will soon find £14. Stop expecting the country to wipe your arse£14 is a lot of money if u have a lot kids, as i said before i wont be paying it no matter, n they can evict me if they want but i just sue them as the promise of labour councilors said no 1 will get evicted"

Anyone who smokes, drinks, drives etc can save £14 per week. I have kids and gave up every luxury. My choice was that or get evicted by the mortgage comapny. Working people do not get the benefits that are availabe to long term claimants and this is the first step in redressing that balance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry gotta disagree as pretty much all people in politics are liars and benders of the truth and tommy went to prison cos he got caught lying and got the courts to exonerate him and help him pocket a load of dosh before he was finally found to be a liar.no offense to you I promise but anyone who wants to be in politics should automatically be banned lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

working or not every 1 is getting hit hard by the english torries n snp let them do it why?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets look at this the other way. As someone who has worked all my life and am now self employed I required surgery to remove a tumour from the base of my brain. I have a mnortgage. I lost ALL of my income for 4 months. I got £65 in total whilst I was off. Nobody paid for any bedrooms for me let alone a spare room. If I had been on benefits I would have been on easy street as I would have received all my usual benefits and probably extra ones for being ill.I had to get o with it. All people are being asked to pay here is £14 per week or something. Cut down on luxuries and you will soon find £14. Stop expecting the country to wipe your arse£14 is a lot of money if u have a lot kids, as i said before i wont be paying it no matter, n they can evict me if they want but i just sue them as the promise of labour councilors said no 1 will get evicted

It's actually £19 pound a week in areas which is a lot to disabled person for example who has paid into the system for over 30 years and never had to claim before ( who also doesn't smoke , drinks next to nothing and lives alone but has kids to help support too )

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Disabled people should be exempt from this if the room is required for storage or a carer without doubt. And under the disability discrimination act it is illegal to discriminate against a disabled person financially or otherwise due to their disability. So if a council tried to take action agaianst a disabled person I have no doubt they would fail in a court and they themselves could be prosecuted for discrimination.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The reason for the anxiety and fear i think is because all so called luxuries are gone from peoples budgets already. i would maybe understand the..oh go get a job attitude if that option was available. its not..there are jobs that just click over a few pence per week more in your pocket than being on benefits.

you need money to circulate money..if economic recovery comes by making poor poorer..then its a new one on me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Disabled people shouldnt be exempt if there living independent lives then they should be treated exactly the same.i have a couple of young disabled people who I know and they want nothing more than to be treated equal. With people who disabled and not independent they rather have to much in bwnefits or not enough cos the government is run by lemmings ! Having known someone who looks after these people one person had ten grand in benefits in her bank account and another had nothing yet both had no access to there money so not about spending it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The reason for the anxiety and fear i think is because all so called luxuries are gone from peoples budgets already. i would maybe understand the..oh go get a job attitude if that option was available. its not..there are jobs that just click over a few pence per week more in your pocket than being on benefits.

you need money to circulate money..if economic recovery comes by making poor poorer..then its a new one on me."

This assumes that only those on benefits are poor. Many are better off than those working. We were officially classified as below the poverty limit but got only £65 per week. The system need revised from top to bottom. I watch people sitting on their arses smoking dope all day on here and wonder what the fek I have done wrong working all my life lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so why cutting every one

no wonder shops are shutting n no jobs are going, no 1 can keep up paying out to heavy bills such as electric - food and clothing and travel

the torries are putting this once a great country back to the dark ages;

an so the called expenses scandal they got away with that didn't they were having to pay it back for them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They are not cutting everyone. They are not cutting me.

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

There is such a thing as quality of life, I live in an area that is very high in unemployment thanks to the Tories. We are getting to a point where there is a third generation that hasn't seen either parent work. This isn't because people don't want to work, it's simply because there are no jobs. You say cut down on luxuries, well a lot of them didn't have them to begin with. I know that neds Seem to get everything they need, but I honestly don't know how they do it, think it might be social workers.

Quality of life, something that people on benefits don't really have. Alcohol, drugs are all a way of escaping the fact that they have no hope in life, stuck in a rut forever. Also domestic violence, suicide, child abuse. The list of things more likely to happen when there are no "luxuries" in life is quite intimidating. By the way, when we were on benefits and trying to run a house off a pittance, our "luxury" was an occasional pizza, or tub of ice cream.

As for long term claimants, all they get is constant harassment and threats of homelessness. I would love to know where people get this idea that it's all rosy for people getting benefits. For us it was constant pure hell which left us living in a house without carpets in most of the rooms because we couldn't afford any.

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

"working or not every 1 is getting hit hard by the english torries n snp let them do it why?

Because benefits are not a devolved matter it's something the Scottish government has no say in.

They have protested as much as they can and have gone as far as to say they would cancel it first chance they get. Simple fact is though, there is nothing the Scottish government can do about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree Picti that not everyone on benefits has it easy. They are however getting more than £65 per week which is all they would give me. Hence I have little sypmathy when they say they are hard up. The system should be the same for everyone. Infact it should, if anything, favour those who have worked for years insted of those who have never ever worked as it does now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its also nice to see a decent debate on here with valid points from both sides without it falling into a slanging match.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Trust me on this whether its scottish government or british or english we will still be trod on and if you think having salmon or sheridan will better your cause just remember they have both been found to be blatantly lying to the people and that's a fact! The richer get rich and the poor suffer but yet we think we have a say lol if I went to prison do you think id get a position of power when I was released ? No chance yet sheridan has lol .im not loyal to britain but im also quite aware theres always been lords and lairds and serfs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its also nice to see a decent debate on here with valid points from both sides without it falling into a slanging match.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Disabled people should be exempt from this if the room is required for storage or a carer without doubt. And under the disability discrimination act it is illegal to discriminate against a disabled person financially or otherwise due to their disability. So if a council tried to take action agaianst a disabled person I have no doubt they would fail in a court and they themselves could be prosecuted for discrimination."

That'd only work if the coucil were only taking action against disabled people and not taking action against non-disabled people.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"working or not every 1 is getting hit hard by the english torries n snp let them do it why?

Because benefits are not a devolved matter it's something the Scottish government has no say in.

They have protested as much as they can and have gone as far as to say they would cancel it first chance they get. Simple fact is though, there is nothing the Scottish government can do about it. "

That's not entirely true. The money Holyrood has to spend isn't ringfenced in any way. The Scottish Executive can spend it on anything it chooses.

It has chosen to spend it, for example, on free prescriptions and bus passes for people who often don't need them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And a huge pompus building that costs a fortune lol

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

"working or not every 1 is getting hit hard by the english torries n snp let them do it why?

Because benefits are not a devolved matter it's something the Scottish government has no say in.

They have protested as much as they can and have gone as far as to say they would cancel it first chance they get. Simple fact is though, there is nothing the Scottish government can do about it.

That's not entirely true. The money Holyrood has to spend isn't ringfenced in any way. The Scottish Executive can spend it on anything it chooses.

It has chosen to spend it, for example, on free prescriptions and bus passes for people who often don't need them."

Lots of people desperately need free prescriptions, and as for the bus passes, they exist to help people with disabilities get out of the house. If they didn't have them then they wouldn't as very few can afford to pay for themselves and their career. I know this system is abused, I have seen it. But it sucks when people like me who could really use one don't get it because I am not considered disabled enough. There is a loophole somewhere, but I haven't found it.

As for the Scottish government, I'm just glad of the measures they are putting in place on top of all this. Crisis grants and food banks naming but two.

I'm glad you aren't in a situation where you benefit from free prescriptions and that you are well enough to not need the free bus travel, and I sincerely hope you will never be in that situation. But please don't underestimate how much these services are needed by those of us who are.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I havce no issue with these things being available for people who NEED them but lots of people who don't need them get them.

Nicola Sturgeon and her husband have a combined income of over £200,000 per annum yet get free prescriptions. Moira Salmond, Ming Campbell and Michael Forsyth have bus passes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have a young son that lives with his mum and shes worked all her life and while my son is still to young for school shes using the time to retrain but is penniless without my help because she falls outside the lucky group who get so much when the system is there to help people who need the help or rely on it not for people capable of working but don't ( not to be confused with people who are actively looking for work but no jobs )

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

I honestly think its the social workers.... Poor people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

reason I got the extra room was with me ex n she had a kid;

also the spare bedroom is for ny 1 in my family who needs it, like my sis v England who stays with me

what am i going to do when i get a smaller place I canna meet ny 1 who has 2 kids or more if I had the 1 bedroom my sis would have to pay for the b&b;

sorry to say but the english torries have really screwed up people lives on this one well done torries

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have to agree with it personally

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Doesn't affect me as I'm not in social housing nor on benefits, but I think it's sad. If I was in that situation I would worry about firstly being able to get a smaller property, and secondly if I was to be offered something smaller, what would it be like? It could be miles away from a home which has been lived in for many years, it could be in a rough area in a state of disrepair... Moving is a very expensive process for someone in work let alone someone on the brink of poverty, if not there already. The poor are being victimised at every turn lately.

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

I work full time can only afford 1 bed flat and have my wee one regular staying over and its couch for me.

What annoys me is that 870,000 benefit claimants suddenly got well over night when the assesments were put to them and they stopped claiming.

Another 800 odd thousand were deemed fit for work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I work full time can only afford 1 bed flat and have my wee one regular staying over and its couch for me.

What annoys me is that 870,000 benefit claimants suddenly got well over night when the assesments were put to them and they stopped claiming.

Another 800 odd thousand were deemed fit for work.

Much of this is due to people who are ill and vulnerable not being able to cope with the process of assessments and appeals etc. Waging war upon those who are too weak for battle!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Plus bear in mind that ATOS (won't even start on them) have judged the terminally ill as "fit for work"...

My stepdad had a stroke and his eyesight was buggered, he couldn't speak in a manner that people who didnt know him could understand and struggled to do day to day tasks. He was found to be fit for work also - but who would want him and to do what?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I honestly think its the social workers.... Poor people

whats the social workers?

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

"Doesn't affect me as I'm not in social housing nor on benefits, but I think it's sad. If I was in that situation I would worry about firstly being able to get a smaller property, and secondly if I was to be offered something smaller, what would it be like? It could be miles away from a home which has been lived in for many years, it could be in a rough area in a state of disrepair... Moving is a very expensive process for someone in work let alone someone on the brink of poverty, if not there already. The poor are being victimised at every turn lately."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Heres a thought. If the government were successful in moving EVERYONE that didn't need a two bed house/flat to a one bed, wouldn't that end up costing them MORE in benefits??

There just aren't enough council one beds to go around, FACT, so people will be forced into private or housing association accommodation. Which COSTS MORE than the average. For example, my two bed flat =£440 per month. A private one bed =£550 in my area! Loss to government = £110 per month!

Wonder if they have thought it through eh!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..........

Wonder if they have thought it through eh!"

Of course, it could just be that the object of the Tory exercise is to turn people against each other.

A look at threads on Fab shows it's been successful.

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

"I honestly think its the social workers.... Poor people

whats the social workers?"

Most often around here the neds that have all the benefits, grants etc have social work helping them out. How they get a social worker i don't know, we had been living in the system for years in a pretty bad situation and we were never offered one. Having spoke to a few i know that if they don't help them out, even if they know they are on the take, they get into serious trouble. The guidelines they work in makes them find every available benefit etc for their client, and ensure they have it. If i had had a social worker speaking for me i would probably have had the modifications the flat needs by now, just because they asked for it. They hate that aspect of the job, especially when they know someone is playing the system. I know there are some crooked ones too though..

I got judged fit to work by ATOS, after the assesment i was stuck in bed for 3 weeks because they didn't listen to me and pulled all the muscles in my back and hips. When the decision came it said i was lying about and physical difficulty i was in.

They don't take your medical record into account, they don't contact your specialist or GP, a NURSE decided i was fine and kicked me off my benefit .

My gp wouldn't allow me to go back to work, it wouldn't be fair to employers or to me. He said i maybe have another 2 years before i'm in a wheelchair, if i went back to work it would probably be 6 months to a year. ATOS should be prosecuted.

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

"Heres a thought. If the government were successful in moving EVERYONE that didn't need a two bed house/flat to a one bed, wouldn't that end up costing them MORE in benefits??

Wonder if they have thought it through eh!"

Everyone needs a two bed flat, at least.

I have listed the psychological reasons before, but i really don't think the tories care. No wonder suicide rates for young people in the uk are rising to scary levels, what is there for them to do?

live in a one bedroom flat, no room to store anything, it sucks. you end up not wanting to go home.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 02/04/13 15:46:43]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Heres a thought. If the government were successful in moving EVERYONE that didn't need a two bed house/flat to a one bed, wouldn't that end up costing them MORE in benefits??

Wonder if they have thought it through eh!

Everyone needs a two bed flat, at least.

I have listed the psychological reasons before, but i really don't think the tories care. No wonder suicide rates for young people in the uk are rising to scary levels, what is there for them to do?

live in a one bedroom flat, no room to store anything, it sucks. you end up not wanting to go home."

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"......live in a one bedroom flat, no room to store anything, it sucks. you end up not wanting to go home."

The Tories don't want you to have anything to store. They want you to need to sell it all to Cash Converters or the like to try to make ends meet.

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By *hickencurryCouple
over a year ago

brisbane

Refreshing change to have an interesting debate on this. Think it's a bit harsh on certain people so individual cases have to be judged separately. But agree with spending cuts and it wasn't the tories who left the note in the treasury saying there's no money left but they're predecessors. But we're all having to make sacrifices which is somewhat fair?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Refreshing change to have an interesting debate on this. Think it's a bit harsh on certain people so individual cases have to be judged separately. But agree with spending cuts and it wasn't the tories who left the note in the treasury saying there's no money left but they're predecessors. But we're all having to make sacrifices which is somewhat fair?"

Agreed, it would be fairer if we were all be making sacrifices but we are not. There are too many fat cats paying less tax now than before. It wasn't Labour that broke the bank it was the fat cat bankers that did it to themselves, Fred Goodwin et el!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".........it wasn't the tories who left the note in the treasury saying there's no money left but they're predecessors. ........."

Every Chief Secretary to the Treasury since WWII has left a similar note and it didn't say "I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left,", it said "I'm afraid to tell you there's no money," a very different thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if there is no money left why we still spending it n bailing out other countries

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......live in a one bedroom flat, no room to store anything, it sucks. you end up not wanting to go home.

The Tories don't want you to have anything to store. They want you to need to sell it all to Cash Converters or the like to try to make ends meet."
no 1 will buy it especially at rips of cash converters as there is no room

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

"if there is no money left why we still spending it n bailing out other countries "

Ideally incase the shit hits the fan and we need other countries to bail us out.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"......live in a one bedroom flat, no room to store anything, it sucks. you end up not wanting to go home.

The Tories don't want you to have anything to store. They want you to need to sell it all to Cash Converters or the like to try to make ends meet.

no 1 will buy it especially at rips of cash converters as there is no room"

I would never dream of disagreeing with a Buddie about the relative merits of knock-off shops.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can only see these benefit reforms going one way and that is more homeless ppl more poverty and crime and no doubt demonstrations and riots! Hope im wrong but got a bad feeling about this .

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By *cotsbicoupleCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

To the person that mentioned about free prescriptions and bus passes, and how the "rich" get them...

They're a universal benefit. EVERYONE gets them. It's fair, since the rich pay a larger percentage of the tax-base..

It's also the only sensible thing to do, since if you had a means-tested system, believe it or not, the expense of running the tests, the various certificates etc. the opt-outs, the yearly-plans etc. actually cost MORE!

This is why prescription charges in England keep going up; the cost of administering the system keeps going up.

We (Wales too) just made them free for all; no-one should or does have to pay for medication, and that's absolutely the right thing to do.

Same with the bus-passes (although there are some issues about the bus operators not getting enough money) - and in that case the actual usage by the "rich" of bus-passes is actually quite small as well, since they tend to drive!

The arguments you've heard/read in the media against universal benefits/services are entirely fictitious when they talk about fiscal impact. The reason the right-wing oppose these things is because they are ideologically against them. They oppose them when the benefit (eg. free prescriptions) actually saves us money. They oppose it, regardless of the facts, and will then spin what they can to look good.

Same with the bedroom tax, the universal credit (which is gonna be a total trainwreck), the insistence of "digital-by-default" for all applications (poor people often don't have the internet), the removal of crisis loans and community care grants (which the Scottish government has been able to scrape the money together to re-implement, at least for now) - the Tories believe the poor do not deserve these things, that you should "earn" these things by working, and that if you're poor, unlucky or sick, you should just live with it and not ask for help from the Government.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"To the person that mentioned about free prescriptions and bus passes, and how the "rich" get them...

They're a universal benefit. EVERYONE gets them. It's fair, since the rich pay a larger percentage of the tax-base..

This is why prescription charges in England keep going up; the cost of administering the system keeps going up.

We (Wales too) just made them free for all; no-one should or does have to pay for medication, and that's absolutely the right thing to do.

..............."

In an ideal world where money wasn't a problem I'd probably agree with free prescriptions for everyone.

Unfortunately that's not the world we live in.

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By *cotsbicoupleCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

In an ideal world where money wasn't a problem I'd probably agree with free prescriptions for everyone.

Unfortunately that's not the world we live in."

No. In the real world, you have 4 options.

1) Everyone pays for prescriptions. The amount varies dependent on medicine, so your kids tummy bug costs 80p, and soeone elses cancer drugs cost half a million.

This doesn't work.

2) Everyone pays a set fee for prescriptions. There are no opt-outs or concessions, so if you need a lot of medicines and you're poor, you can't afford them. This also doesn't work.

3) Some people pay a set fee for prescriptions. Some get them free, based on their illness or income; the system for administering the testing costs a lot.

4) Everyone gets them free.

Of the 2 systems in use in the UK at the moment, (3 & 4), 4 costs LESS.

Free prescriptions also bring with them a host of other benefits. I've personally gone without medicine because I was skint that week and couldn't afford them. Many others have too. This makes their conditions worse sometimes, meaning hospital stays, more treatment, lost work days etc. to the economy.

Free prescriptions isn't just an idealogically good idea. It's also a fiscally good idea.

If you're against it, you're either ill-informed, or want to punish the poor, even though it will cost the country more money.

That's the world we live in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In an ideal world where money wasn't a problem I'd probably agree with free prescriptions for everyone.

Unfortunately that's not the world we live in.

No. In the real world, you have 4 options.

1) Everyone pays for prescriptions. The amount varies dependent on medicine, so your kids tummy bug costs 80p, and soeone elses cancer drugs cost half a million.

This doesn't work.

2) Everyone pays a set fee for prescriptions. There are no opt-outs or concessions, so if you need a lot of medicines and you're poor, you can't afford them. This also doesn't work.

3) Some people pay a set fee for prescriptions. Some get them free, based on their illness or income; the system for administering the testing costs a lot.

4) Everyone gets them free.

Of the 2 systems in use in the UK at the moment, (3 & 4), 4 costs LESS.

Free prescriptions isn't just an idealogically good idea. It's also a fiscally good idea.

If you're against it, you're either ill-informed, or want to punish the poor, even though it will cost the country more money.

That's the world we live in."

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

........k.

3) Some people pay a set fee for prescriptions. Some get them free, based on their illness or income; the system for administering the testing costs a lot.

4) Everyone gets them free.

Of the 2 systems in use in the UK at the moment, (3 & 4), 4 costs LESS.

........................"

Free prescriptions didn't cost the NHS anything in administration.

Patients either got certain benefits (administered by DWP) or they were prescribed certain medicines (checked by their local pharmacist).

Free prescriptions wasn't introduced on health or cost grounds. It was done to buy votes.

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

........k.

3) Some people pay a set fee for prescriptions. Some get them free, based on their illness or income; the system for administering the testing costs a lot.

4) Everyone gets them free.

Of the 2 systems in use in the UK at the moment, (3 & 4), 4 costs LESS.

........................

Free prescriptions didn't cost the NHS anything in administration.

Patients either got certain benefits (administered by DWP) or they were prescribed certain medicines (checked by their local pharmacist).

Free prescriptions wasn't introduced on health or cost grounds. It was done to buy votes."

Hang on a sec _nny, are you saying that option 3 actually costs nothing in administration?n because if you are, think again. The nhs had to make sure that they issued the correct paperwork to those who required it to get free prescriptions. They didn't decide who got them, the dwp did. So that's 2 government agencies doing paperwork and employing people to do it. Did these people work for free? No they didn't. This people who did that administration were made obsolete when free prescriptions for all were introduced.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

Something has to be done to reduce the huge welfare bill. Agree with the Benefits Cap, disagree with Universal Credit (it's a disaster waiting to happen). Undecided on the bedroom tax.

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

........k.

3) Some people pay a set fee for prescriptions. Some get them free, based on their illness or income; the system for administering the testing costs a lot.

4) Everyone gets them free.

Of the 2 systems in use in the UK at the moment, (3 & 4), 4 costs LESS.

........................

Free prescriptions didn't cost the NHS anything in administration.

Patients either got certain benefits (administered by DWP) or they were prescribed certain medicines (checked by their local pharmacist).

Free prescriptions wasn't introduced on health or cost grounds. It was done to buy votes.

Mmmmm buns..................

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

"Much of this is due to people who are ill and vulnerable not being able to cope with the process of assessments and appeals etc. Waging war upon those who are too weak for battle!"

Surely the same folk found the strength to follow the paper work to claim in first place though or had assistance with doing it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Much of this is due to people who are ill and vulnerable not being able to cope with the process of assessments and appeals etc. Waging war upon those who are too weak for battle!

Surely the same folk found the strength to follow the paper work to claim in first place though or had assistance with doing it. "

the goalposts have changed though. The goalposts being ATOS now! It's very stressful to have to go through assessments to prove to someone who isn't even a doctor that you're sick. Surely a GP is more impartial than someone who is not a doctor and is essentially paid to kick you off benefit. I have a friend who suffers very bad mental health, various conditions, has tried to kill himself a number of times and really lives a poor life to be honest, he was kicked off benefits and didn't have the strength or sense of self worth to stick up for himself. The ill and disabled are very easy targets.

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

On the other hand I know a lady who has managed to stay on benefits for over 32 years! She is on her second unemployed husband after the first drank himself to death while also on benefits. Now she has just bought an 8 berth residential caravan on a site so she can go there at weekends drinking with friends. A year ago the council moved her from a flat into a house even although she has no kids.

The last time anyone actually worked in her extended family was 1980!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My sister and partner both work and live in a 2 bedroom small flat. They cannot afford to pay the extra for the spare room so opted to move to a one bed flat...........only to be told the rent was even higher than the flat they are currently in, work that one out

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"My sister and partner both work and live in a 2 bedroom small flat. They cannot afford to pay the extra for the spare room so opted to move to a one bed flat...........only to be told the rent was even higher than the flat they are currently in, work that one out

If they both work then it shouldn't affect them surely?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 04/04/13 19:02:07]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they both work then it shouldn't affect them surely?"

They get a very small housing benefit because of low wages so it does affect them.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

From a Glasgow Law Advice Centre.

"If you know anyone affected by the bedroom tax they should consider appealing their HB decision, firstly because there are 10 judicial reviews in England on the go, and if these are successful you will not benefit from them for past loss because of the 'anti-test case' rules unless you have a dispute form in, and secondly, because there is a reasonable prospect that in many cases challenges may be successful - no guarantee of success, but nothing to lose in trying. "

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By *ustforalaugh1Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Totally agree. I bet if they went to the relevant authorities and ASKED to be moved to a smaller property they'd be told "sorry, don't have any".

So they are being penalised for living in a property they were allocated and can't move on from.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Totally agree. I bet if they went to the relevant authorities and ASKED to be moved to a smaller property they'd be told "sorry, don't have any".

So they are being penalised for living in a property they were allocated and can't move on from.

At least part of the reason people can't follow Cameron/ Osborne's demand that they move somewhere smaller is Thatcher's introduction of the Right to Buy.

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By *ustforalaugh1Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Totally agree. I bet if they went to the relevant authorities and ASKED to be moved to a smaller property they'd be told "sorry, don't have any".

So they are being penalised for living in a property they were allocated and can't move on from.

At least part of the reason people can't follow Cameron/ Osborne's demand that they move somewhere smaller is Thatcher's introduction of the Right to Buy."

Good point. Still doesn't help the people being penalised right now for being in a situation they have no control over

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"At least part of the reason people can't follow Cameron/ Osborne's demand that they move somewhere smaller is Thatcher's introduction of the Right to Buy.

Good point. Still doesn't help the people being penalised right now for being in a situation they have no control over"

Agreed. Let's ensure the blame for this situation lies on those at fault.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The essense of this government is take from us all, and leave us fighting over the crumbs. It helps their cause a great deal to establish a dichotomy of the deserving and the undeserving, but I would argue (I won't go into too much detail here, but can elaborate if you wish) that the number of people who don't go to work simply because they can't be arsed is miniscule (and blown up out of all proportion by the like of the Daily Mail)...in fact the whole benefits bill is dwarfed by tax avoidance for example. Yes, we do have a problem with long-term unemployment, but that's mainly due to the nature of the job market nowadays.

When the tax was first introduced, there was no exemption for armed forces personnel, or the disabled. They'd be bloody stupid to try and argue that ex-servicemen were undeserving, it would generate enormous bad publicity (even the Daily Express were angered at the thought of Gurkas being deported remember). With the disabled it's not quite so clear cut, some will be exempt, but it will depend on assessments (which probably go something like the ATOS trials, declaring people fit for work who later dropped down dead). But really, I don't think making exceptions is good enough. Like I say it's intended to be divisive.

On the one occasion I felt I could stomach watching BBC news in the last 10 days, I did think a very good point was made about Thatcher by John Gummer, something along the lines of 'She was very good at picking off her enemies one-by-one, and was sure never to be fighting on more than one front'. She needed to do that to smash the unions. Her legacy of individualism is a massive obstacle to working class solidarity. My hope is that the present lot are nowhere near that shrewd, and by hitting everybody at once, they've miscalculated, and there's going to be a huge backlash. The fact that people who are in favour of the bedroom tax in principle can say it's being poorly implement might suggest so.

One of the major impracticalities with this, which stems from the lack of smaller social housing, is that if someone on housing benefit is forced into so-called 'affordable housing' from a private landlord, then the costs will actually go up. The less social housing there is, the more landlords can get away with extortionate rents. So it is they, not the claimants who are the real beneficiaries of the rising housing benefit bill, which the taxpayer has to foot.

So I don't see why council housing is frowed upon so much. My grandparents lived in one from the 1950s (my Grandad was a miner), and it was a beautiful house with big gardens. And when they became infirm in their old age, it got looked after, insulated and central heated, decorated (we'll leave aside the fact that my grandma was refused a stairlift because she could crawl upstairs).

And, as far as local authorities are concerned, they are an asset. They receive rent for letting it out, so it pays for itself (with hopefully some left over). Home ownership is not going to solve the housing crisis (let's not forget the bubble in the housing market was the main contributing factor to the global recession). The right to buy policy in the 1980s has resulted in a third of those homes owned by private landlords run for a profit. The top and bottom of this is that the Tories want to break social housing and break the welfare state.

But there is a need for both now more than ever. People's circumstances change. They have children. Their children grow up. People die (and yes, the bereaved are receiving notices of underoccupancy). People lose their jobs. Governments no longer have full employment on their agenda. Even in the Nu-Labour years (when, for the most part, the jobs were there) they were no longer jobs for life. And people are expected to travel much more to stay in work. Since my stepmother moved to England, she has had to find a job three times (because the first two were fixed term), taking her from the North East of England to West Wales, via East Anglia. Thankfully, as a doctor, her and my Dad can afford to rent privately. But we can't all fit into well paid jobs, can we?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If they both work then it shouldn't affect them surely?"

A lot of people in work still receive housing benefit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well, if it's a private landlord, that's no surprise really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..........

Wonder if they have thought it through eh!

Of course, it could just be that the object of the Tory exercise is to turn people against each other.

A look at threads on Fab shows it's been successful."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We all got letters last year from all our respective councils making us aware of this?

Nope.

You should have....

Most of the people I know were sent excemption forms about 2 weeks after the initial letter..."

Here in Leeds, letters dated March 1 were sent out, saying you have a month to appeal. They weren't actually sent though until towards the end of March.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/04/13 06:33:42]

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

[Removed by poster at 18/04/13 06:34:12]

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

"Sorry, didn't even realise this was a Scotland forum. I was looking for an old thread from the Lounge and did a Google search. I'm a bit jealous now. You seem mostly to have a healthy antipathy for Tories which is sadly lacking South of the border."

You should try some of the other threads on here too mate lol. We always have fun up here

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

"We all got letters last year from all our respective councils making us aware of this?

Nope.

You should have....

Most of the people I know were sent excemption forms about 2 weeks after the initial letter...

Here in Leeds, letters dated March 1 were sent out, saying you have a month to appeal. They weren't actually sent though until towards the end of March."

A lot of the reason for letters going out late is that the councils don't want to do this and were hoping it wouldn't happen. But when they realised they had no option they had to employ extra staff to deal with it - implement it and to offer help and advice to tenants (and that is from a local council housing officers mouth!)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry, didn't even realise this was a Scotland forum. I was looking for an old thread from the Lounge and did a Google search.

I'm a bit jealous now. Most of you seem to have a healthy antipathy for Tories which is sadly lacking South of the border.

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

"Sorry, didn't even realise this was a Scotland forum. I was looking for an old thread from the Lounge and did a Google search.

I'm a bit jealous now. Most of you seem to have a healthy antipathy for Tories which is sadly lacking South of the border."

Everyone is welcome in Scotland - I'm originally from England too lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everyone is welcome in Scotland - I'm originally from England too lol

What, even Iain Duncan Smith?

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

"Everyone is welcome in Scotland - I'm originally from England too lol

What, even Iain Duncan Smith?"

Well, everyone fab member is welcome lol

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By *ey11Man
over a year ago

falkirk

we live in a hand out state time for some to pay back a little and theres uproar am not saying everyone can work but theres a good amount of people bleeding the system dry with no attempt to get work! its time we made people cliaming these benifits wrk the amount they claim by cleaning council buildings/sweeping streets etc

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

"we live in a hand out state time for some to pay back a little and theres uproar am not saying everyone can work but theres a good amount of people bleeding the system dry with no attempt to get work! its time we made people cliaming these benifits wrk the amount they claim by cleaning council buildings/sweeping streets etc "

Provided it local (no travel expenses) and only 10hrs......Im sure plenty wouldnt have problem with that...

I wouldnt...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But then councils would just use the free labour in lieu of giving someone a real paying job

Look at Poundland etc they took on folk for months at a time without pay and with no intention of keeping them on if thy did a good job - if they need staff they should pay them fairly like everyone else.

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

But then councils would just use the free labour in lieu of giving someone a real paying job

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would support placements in the charitable sector where they rely on volunteers but not in order to boost profits of a big company or any work that means a company gets away without taking on a paid worker. I'm sure many charities would be grateful for the help too. It's not about punishing the unemployed in my mind but helping them to build some experience and something for their cv.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

I think the difference is though that poundland is a private company and would keep the profits they gain from this. With local authorities it would free up finance for them to possibly employ people in other areas and improve services (or reduce cuts)

Not necessarily saying I agree with the original idea though, just pointing out the possible differences between the impact it would have on a private company and a public one.

It's a fact that there are people out there who don't want to work but there are also people who want to work but can't find any. It's extremely difficult, maybe even impossible, to find some sort of system that targets only those who are 'work shy'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mr used to work (paid!) somewhere that openly said they never bothered taking on a full staff team as they got 3 long term unemployed to work 25hrs a week for a few months for free and when they were done they just got a new set of 3. That is very wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the difference is though that poundland is a private company and would keep the profits they gain from this. With local authorities it would free up finance for them to possibly employ people in other areas and improve services (or reduce cuts)

Not necessarily saying I agree with the original idea though, just pointing out the possible differences between the impact it would have on a private company and a public one.

I still think that if a workplace needs a paid worker they should have to pay them a fair wage. Local authority or not. They're big employers and I wouldn't like to think they stopped employing in order to rely on free labour from the unemployed, therefore stopping people getting jobs and stopping them getting off benefits... What next, force unemployed accountants to do their accounts for nothing?

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Not necessarily saying I agree with the original idea though, just pointing out the possible differences between the impact it would have on a private company and a public one.

As I say, I never said I agreed with the proposal, was just pointing out the differences. If a local authority saves money employing in one area they can use it to employ in another as it's not the case the savings will go to shareholders as profits etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know what you're saying but I still think it'd be a terrible idea to stop employing people and I doubt they would use it to employ in other departments either - they could probably get free labour for almost every job going! Might save on council cash in one department but ultimately less people employed in the area so more housing benefits being given out etc.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I know what you're saying but I still think it'd be a terrible idea to stop employing people and I doubt they would use it to employ in other departments either - they could probably get free labour for almost every job going! Might save on council cash in one department but ultimately less people employed in the area so more housing benefits being given out etc. "

Housing Benefit isn't paid out of local authority budgets. It's from central government.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Regardless, it's still got to come from somewhere.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Regardless, it's still got to come from somewhere. "

Yeah, but it doesn't come from the local authorities budget, which was your point above i.e. that savings made in one area could be used on housing benefit. It can't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So you think it's a good idea for local authorities to take advantage of free labour rather than giving people a fair shot at a decent working life? Rather add to the benefits bill than allow someone to work fairly and pay tax and NI?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My housing association sent info out saying there is a discretionary housing benefit application available to those who are struggling with the cost of the bedroom tax. So if it affects you or someone you know I would check with housing benefit about this 6 month extra bedroom payment x

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"So you think it's a good idea for local authorities to take advantage of free labour rather than giving people a fair shot at a decent working life? Rather add to the benefits bill than allow someone to work fairly and pay tax and NI?

No I never said that anywhere, please don't misrepresent my words.

Again, I just explained that a local authority is different from a private company and pointed out that you were wrong with regards to the idea that the money saved could be spent on housing benefit rather than employing others.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"My housing association sent info out saying there is a discretionary housing benefit application available to those who are struggling with the cost of the bedroom tax. So if it affects you or someone you know I would check with housing benefit about this 6 month extra bedroom payment x "

Everyone should apply for this. Authorities have been given increased funds for discretionary housing benefit this year to help mitigate this charge.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Govan Law Centre (GLC) believes there are good reasons for most people to challenge their local authority’s decision to impose under-occupancy deductions to their housing benefit. First, there are already 10 judicial reviews in England and Wales challenging various aspects of the bedroom tax on different legal grounds; a number of judicial reviews in Scotland are expected shortly. Furthermore, it is important to recognise that there are many separate grounds of challenge, based upon process, the facts, and the law in relation to tenants who have different facts and circumstances."

Govan Law Centre's blogspot has a toolkit for appeals but if possible people should get help from Citizen's Advice or a local welfare/ benefits rights advice centre.

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By *ey11Man
over a year ago

falkirk

the council have a million and 1 jobs they never get round to surely giving the unskilled ones to people on the 'benefit scheme'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

any female needing a spare bedroom i have one available

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't see what the whole issue is with the bedroom tax. It doesn't affect those in need like disabled people as there are certain exceptions.

Surely a house given by the council is to help when you can't afford a house of your own. It's not a right to have a guaranteed house for the rest of your life. If your circumstances chance ie your children move out why should you be allowed to keep a larger house with rooms you don't use when there are families looking for larger houses. It works both ways. Some families can't get bigger houses as you get single people living in three bedroom houses.

Think the government has it spot on.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"................. Some families can't get bigger houses as you get single people living in three bedroom houses.

.............

Some people can't get smaller houses 'cos Thatcher sold them off and didn't replace them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"................. Some families can't get bigger houses as you get single people living in three bedroom houses.

.............

Some people can't get smaller houses 'cos Thatcher sold them off and didn't replace them."

Some people can't get smaller houses as they are full of kids breeding to get benefits

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Don't see what the whole issue is with the bedroom tax. It doesn't affect those in need like disabled people as there are certain exceptions.

Think the government has it spot on.

A lot of families have council houses passed down a generation and their rents cost more than a mortgage in a lot of cases. My friends family who's father now dead who would have been in his 80s worked and paid his rent all his adult life and was actually born in the house he passed down to his daughter and family who have also worked all their adult lives until a couple year ago when her husband died and now she only has one child left at home but had 4 children in a 3 bedroom, she lost her job cause of childcare issues when her husband died and is struggling to get bk into employment. I'm sure her circumstances will change and she will get into employment were she wants to be. I read your comment over a couple times and I'm now angry that people do actually have this type of attitude towards the subject. You have obviously never been in a situation of deprivation which required some assistance until you get bk on your feet... Most people want jobs to pay their own way its a small minority who settle on benefits but this bedroom tax is going to put a family like my friend further into debt if she can't get into employment soon or she risks losing her family home Its a shame! I'm sure she was asked to buy it from the council for a few thousand pound cause it has been in her family for so long. Should she be forced to move into a 2 bedroom???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Don't see what the whole issue is with the bedroom tax. It doesn't affect those in need like disabled people as there are certain exceptions.

Think the government has it spot on.

Well actually I was brought but with four of us in a three bedroom council house. When we moved out my mum moved to a smaller 1 bedroom flat. Myself, well I moved and got a really good job. Was doing well until my health suffered greatly. I then ended up in a "1" bedroom council flat. Started working and moved out 5 months later and bought myself a house. What motivation do people have to better themselves by living in a house to big for them? How can you pass down a council house? It's the governments and shouldn't be passed down generation.

If your friend is sick then surely moving to a smaller house which is cheaper for them to run would be better for them or is heating a house with empty rooms worth it?

Hope your friend gets better soon

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Its a mess, like the titanic situation, not enough correct size houses(lifeboats) to usher people into.

And as this thread shows, lots of anxious ideas to solve it before people are sunk!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

definitely dont agree with this

dunno why this was allow 2 pass

an i wont be paying for it

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"UNITED NATIONS special envoy Raquel Rolnik will call on the Con-Dems to scrap the tax, which she believes breaches the basic right to housing.

DAVID CAMERON'S hated bedroom tax breaches human rights and should be scrapped, a top UN official will demand today.

Special rapporteur Raquel Rolnik will call on the Con-Dems to scrap their decision to cut benefits to tenants with a spare room. She will say the policy breaches the basic right to housing as there are not enough smaller properties for tenants to move into.

Rolnik is ready to reveal her findings today after an unprecedented two-week tour of the UK meeting campaigners, bedroom tax victims and officials.

Ironically, it was the Tory-led Government who gave the Brazilian housing and architecture academic permission to carry out the study – and she is set to deliver a harsh critique of Britain’s housing crisis."

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"UNITED NATIONS special envoy Raquel Rolnik will call on the Con-Dems to scrap the tax, which she believes breaches the basic right to housing.

DAVID CAMERON'S hated bedroom tax breaches human rights and should be scrapped, a top UN official will demand today.

Rolnik is ready to reveal her findings today after an unprecedented two-week tour of the UK meeting campaigners, bedroom tax victims and officials.

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