FabSwingers.com forum: Ardeer Beach Stevenson Beach

By *ot - Couple OP Couple
25 weeks ago

Glasgow

We went along to what we thought was Ardeer Beach last night, but, we think we went to Stevenson Beach instead by mistake. It was still a lovely walk in evening sun in the dunes and we also saw 2 deer.

Just Had a look on Google maps, is Ardeer Beach where the large painting of Burns is on the wall?

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By *igboobiesCouple
25 weeks ago

Saltcoats

"We went along to what we thought was Ardeer Beach last night, but, we think we went to Stevenson Beach instead by mistake. It was still a lovely walk in evening sun in the dunes and we also saw 2 deer.

Just Had a look on Google maps, is Ardeer Beach where the large painting of Burns is on the wall? "

Yes it is

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By *ndy88Man
25 weeks ago

Irvine

Just Had a look on Google maps, is Ardeer Beach where the large painting of Burns is on the wall? "

Yes park at car park at the point and walk along beach towards Irvine… after about 15/20 min walk you will come to nude section

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By *ot - Couple OP Couple
25 weeks ago

Glasgow

Thanks.

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By *ot - Couple OP Couple
25 weeks ago

Glasgow

We went to the Ardeer beach, nothing to be seen apart from dog walkers. Does the fun take place when it's dark? It's very exposed on the beach itself.

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By *ndy88Man
25 weeks ago

Irvine

"We went to the Ardeer beach, nothing to be seen apart from dog walkers. Does the fun take place when it's dark? It's very exposed on the beach itself. "

Lots of dog walkers yes, people tend to have discreet fun on beach - when were u on the beach? If you’re looking to be having fun it’s best going on a nice warm day when beach tends to be busier

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By *ot - Couple OP Couple
25 weeks ago

Glasgow

"We went to the Ardeer beach, nothing to be seen apart from dog walkers. Does the fun take place when it's dark? It's very exposed on the beach itself.

We were there last night.

Lots of dog walkers yes, people tend to have discreet fun on beach - when were u on the beach? If you’re looking to be having fun it’s best going on a nice warm day when beach tends to be busier "

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By *e libertineMan
25 weeks ago

glasgow

P.M. Me !

I have a couple of tips for that beach but cant message you

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By *abeccaTV/TS
25 weeks ago

ayrshire

Just Had a look on Google maps, is Ardeer Beach where the large painting of Burns is on the wall? "
is just past pic heading irvine

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By *hunks and RingsCouple
25 weeks ago

Ayrshire

"P.M. Me !

I have a couple of tips for that beach but cant message you

You not wanting to share with everyone?

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By *att_231Man
25 weeks ago

Glasgow

It's best to walk quite a bit further along from the mural. And as one previous poster said, it's best on warm sunny days, preferably weekends when there will be more couples at the beach.

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By *luebell888Woman
25 weeks ago

Glasgowish

The first time I went with a female friend we stripped off and sunbathed under the mural and wondered why nobody else got naked. Wasn't till later on in the day we realised we were at the wrong spot.

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By *ot - Couple OP Couple
25 weeks ago

Glasgow

"The first time I went with a female friend we stripped off and sunbathed under the mural and wondered why nobody else got naked. Wasn't till later on in the day we realised we were at the wrong spot."

We walked to the mural last night and thought this isn't right but we weren't far enough along the beach so we walked back to the car

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By (user no longer on site)
25 weeks ago

It's a nice walk.. but yeah bit further along..

Had a good night or two down there just watching.

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By (user no longer on site)
25 weeks ago

Last time I went to Ardeer was talking to a nice woman for barely a minute, next thing I knew I was balls deep

Those are the best times when you're not expecting it to happen

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By (user no longer on site)
25 weeks ago

Just Had a look on Google maps, is Ardeer Beach where the large painting of Burns is on the wall? "

Yes its quite a long walk along the beach from the carpark before you'll see anyone fully naked but on a warm sunny day its worth the effort

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By (user no longer on site)
25 weeks ago

Just Had a look on Google maps, is Ardeer Beach where the large painting of Burns is on the wall? "

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By *att_231Man
25 weeks ago

Glasgow

Would be great to see some fellow fabbers there the next time.

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By (user no longer on site)
25 weeks ago

I was at the beach today with my 2 dogs. I really just went to get them out somewhere quiet where they could get off the lead and check out the beach.

I Have to say it’s nothing to write home about. There were a few older guys maybe in their 70’s naked standing around, a couple of boys up and down on a motor bike and a few other dog walkers that I chatted to. I seen 1 woman there getting some pics took by a couple of guys but that’s about it. If I were to go back it would be to walk the dogs again as it’s a good place for them.

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By *andp888Couple
24 weeks ago

Glasgow

Could be warm enuff wkend here's hoping

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By *over-manMan
24 weeks ago

motherwell

you go penny

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By *asmine_23Woman
24 weeks ago

Ayrshire

Any tips for this beach? Do people still go? What should I expect? I stay in Irvine. Always been curious to visit this beach but never have. May take a swinging friend for company/moral support

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By *agnar73Man
24 weeks ago

glasgow-ish

"I was at the beach today with my 2 dogs. I really just went to get them out somewhere quiet where they could get off the lead and check out the beach.

I go with dog to Barassie/irvine beach but thought I knew where Ardeer was but maybe just a wee bit off with my thinking. I’d have made same mistake as OP.

I don’t think I’d brave it on my own though.

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By *ambob1234Man
24 weeks ago

North Ayrshire

Hi yes Ardeer Beach has the Burns painting and bizzarely a large yellow buoy to the left lol park in the car park beside slipway and walk along to the south about 1 to 1.5km to best area for nude bathing

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By *ambob1234Man
24 weeks ago

North Ayrshire

hi there its a good beach to visit mostly this weekend should mean its very busy park at car park by slipway and walk along

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By *ust along for the rideMan
24 weeks ago

Glasgow

Thinking of heading there this weekend,if the weather is good, been a couple of times and it never disappoint s

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By *andp888Couple
24 weeks ago

Glasgow

"you go penny

"
. Hya stranger lol, long time no see hope Ur well x

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By (user no longer on site)
24 weeks ago

"Any tips for this beach? Do people still go? What should I expect? I stay in Irvine. Always been curious to visit this beach but never have. May take a swinging friend for company/moral support

Expect loads of older gentlemen to walk about with a hard on pointing it in your direction.

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By *ikchattyfellahMan
24 weeks ago

Greenock

"P.M. Me !

I have a couple of tips for that beach but cant message you

You not wanting to share with everyone?"

Exactly what I was thinking...

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By *andp888Couple
24 weeks ago

Glasgow

"Any tips for this beach? Do people still go? What should I expect? I stay in Irvine. Always been curious to visit this beach but never have. May take a swinging friend for company/moral support

Expect loads of older gentlemen to walk about with a hard on pointing it in your direction.

I’m not really sure of the etiquette on nudist beaches but it seems like the norm on ardeer for guys masturbating and moving close to couples/females and just staring. It depends if that’s what you are into I suppose "
. We been going ardeer for 20 year or so, met loads nice folk some who still our friends, we mostly there for sun and to relax, guys do ask if we want to play we always say no unless we're in GC or cap dagde lol as we like to play in the sun on our own , most guys are respectful and end up sitting chatting with us for a few minutes, we don't worry that guys want to play with us ,as we get it it's in a mans DNA lol, but we've never had a bad experience in all the time we been going , just go be free enjoy the beach the sun , be respectful and all will be ok x

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By *omFordzMan
24 weeks ago

glasgow

Looking like it might be a nice day for the beach tomorrow!

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By *asmine_23Woman
24 weeks ago

Ayrshire

Does anyone have instructions on how to get to this beach? Thanks!

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By *unman112Man
24 weeks ago

ayrshire

At car park walk the beach towards Irvine for about 15/20 mins. I'm sure on day like today it will be busy

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By *uru27Man
24 weeks ago

Glasgow

It's a naturist beach not a swingers club. It's not supposed to be anything to write home about. Just people enjoying non-sexual nudity.

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By *asmine_23Woman
24 weeks ago

Ayrshire

Thanks!

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By *ndy88Man
24 weeks ago

Irvine

"Does anyone have instructions on how to get to this beach? Thanks!"

Park up on rocks where u see cars already parked , it’s a bit bumpy to get there but takes a good 10-15 mins off the walk , then from there if you walk 10 mins past the burns painting on the wall after that you will see people naked … walk along until you find somewhere your comfortable with to get naked and not annoyed! Hope you have a great day and remember umyour sun cream! X

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By *etfunky2Man
24 weeks ago

Howwood

Popping down for a bit just now. Anyone about?

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By *heekyguy2Man
24 weeks ago

Local

I take it Stevenson point is not the carpark people are referencing?

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By *asmine_23Woman
24 weeks ago

Ayrshire

Thanks! I think you can park at Stevenson point but there is a closer rocky area/car park by the looks of it x

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By *ot - Couple OP Couple
24 weeks ago

Glasgow

"I take it Stevenson point is not the carpark people are referencing?"

Yes.

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By *ot - Couple OP Couple
24 weeks ago

Glasgow

What's it like in the evening down there, is it worth going?

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By *anCplCouple
24 weeks ago

Lanarkshire

"What's it like in the evening down there, is it worth going?"

We have gone down a couple of times around 6ish,after work when the weather has been good and enjoyed it.

Quiet with just a few folk there but nice.

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By *ntrestedcoupleCouple
24 weeks ago

inthewild

We went for a stroll down the beach today.It was beautiful seen some men sunbathing. A lady having some fun. Perhaps build up the nerve to strip off next time

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By *otanovice82Man
23 weeks ago

Ayr

Anyone fancy joining me down Ardeer beach in the morning?

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By *aughtyguy111Man
23 weeks ago

Not far away

I'm very very local to the beach....message me and can go a walk and show you x

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By *eviant TogMan
23 weeks ago

Barton Mills

"We went for a stroll down the beach today.It was beautiful seen some men sunbathing. A lady having some fun. Perhaps build up the nerve to strip off next time"

Nice, what kind of fun was she having?

Definitely need to visit here. Any times or days best for fun?

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By *ambofkMan
22 weeks ago

Hamilton

Im Planning on going on Saturday the 15th? Anyone else planning on going? Would be good to chat beforehand this will be my first time

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By *ndy88Man
22 weeks ago

Irvine

"Im Planning on going on Saturday the 15th? Anyone else planning on going? Would be good to chat beforehand this will be my first time"

Good luck weather is to be shit for the next few week….. some summer we are getting!!

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By *ambofkMan
22 weeks ago

Hamilton

"Im Planning on going on Saturday the 15th? Anyone else planning on going? Would be good to chat beforehand this will be my first time

Good luck weather is to be shit for the next few week….. some summer we are getting!!"

I'll see what it's like and if its bad I'll give it a miss

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By *ohnny4playMan
22 weeks ago

Kinross

Hope to check it out this week.

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By *abeccaTV/TS
22 weeks ago

ayrshire

Anyone down

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By *abeccaTV/TS
22 weeks ago

ayrshire

Very quiet here so heading home

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By *ohnny4playMan
22 weeks ago

Kinross

It was so quiet, walked whole beach, cold and deserted.

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By *ylonsxxxMan
22 weeks ago

Ayrshire

Weather still a bit rubbish for it. Hopefully gets better soon

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By *ot - Couple OP Couple
22 weeks ago

Glasgow

No one is playing at the moment it's far too cold. The temperature has to be above 20°

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By *ambofkMan
22 weeks ago

Hamilton

"No one is playing at the moment it's far too cold. The temperature has to be above 20° "

Yeah I'm not gonna bother till it starts getting properly warmer

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By *ohnny4playMan
22 weeks ago

Kinross

We were unlucky with the weather, warm windcheating jackets were order of the week! Tentsmuir is closer for a spontaneous visit for us, also better cover in dunes for any fun, though ticks can be a concern there.

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By *ndy88Man
21 weeks ago

Irvine

Anyone down beaxh today ?

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By (user no longer on site)
21 weeks ago

If anyone is looking to play down the beach, pm me and we can arrange a time. Unless anyone wants a group day at the beach

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By *aughtyguy111Man
21 weeks ago

Not far away

Any females down today ?

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By *othighlander2Man
21 weeks ago

North Inverness

Any campsites nearby...I'm planning a motorbike trip in a couple of weeks and want to visit...is it too far to walk in biker gear..suppose I can strip off as I walk lol

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By *ohnny4playMan
21 weeks ago

Kinross

Park Dean sandylands.

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By *othighlander2Man
21 weeks ago

North Inverness

"Park Dean sandylands. "

Cheers I'll have a look

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By *aughty 1 and Naughty 2Couple
21 weeks ago

the couple from next door

Look like we'll be there next we are the weather is set to get hotter...

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By *ohnny4playMan
21 weeks ago

Kinross

"Park Dean sandylands.

Cheers I'll have a look"

Bridge direct from site to beach is out of use, but is to wrong beach anyway. Route is from site to golf course, then moderate walk from there in Irvine direction.

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By *othighlander2Man
21 weeks ago

North Inverness

"Park Dean sandylands.

Cheers I'll have a look

Bridge direct from site to beach is out of use, but is to wrong beach anyway. Route is from site to golf course, then moderate walk from there in Irvine direction. "

Looks like no camping tho and it's caravan rental they do

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By *igboobiesCouple
21 weeks ago

Saltcoats

This is a private beach owned by ici so if naked on beach you may come across dog walkers dirt bikes etc it is mot a swingers beach and as dunes now fenced off you may be committing an offence so be aware I love outdoor just be careful and dint offend others

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By *ndy88Man
21 weeks ago

Irvine

"This is a private beach owned by ici so if naked on beach you may come across dog walkers dirt bikes etc it is mot a swingers beach and as dunes now fenced off you may be committing an offence so be aware I love outdoor just be careful and dint offend others

When did it become a private beach?

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By *ylonsxxxMan
21 weeks ago

Ayrshire

Is actually true. The land is owned by ICI. Ayrshire had a few naturist beaches but these had be closed in the 80s. The reason ardeer wasn't was that ICI owned (owns) the land and the council couldn't ban the naked beach side there. Still holds the same for today. I knew someone who was out walking their dog and unwittingly walked in to the naturist area. They complained to the council and they told them th story about not being able to do anything about it, including signage about it being naturist beach as they don't own the land

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By *ndy111000Man
20 weeks ago

saltcoats

Going here today

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By *ev12368Man
20 weeks ago

glasgow

Was down today....although overcast was very hot and not too busy

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By *b735Man
20 weeks ago

Glasgow

[Removed by poster at 24/06/24 22:16:49]

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By *etfunky2Man
19 weeks ago

Howwood

Is it true the police have been there past few weekends?

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By (user no longer on site)
19 weeks ago

Unlikely that the police would go there and walk 15 minutes along the beach.

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By *ylonsxxxMan
19 weeks ago

Ayrshire

As long as you're not playing in public view the police wouldn't do anything, it is a legal nudist beach as I said in my earlier post.

Agree also with the police not going there, it is at least a 15 walk from car park, even if they did, I think you would be able to see them before they saw you.

But, there is absolutely nothing illegal about being here nude

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By *illie kevMan
19 weeks ago

KILMARNOCK

Would like to visit but unsure of where abouts any help would be greatfully recieved

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By *luebell888Woman
19 weeks ago

Glasgowish

Was hoping to go this week but the weather has been awful.

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By *ndy88Man
19 weeks ago

Irvine

"Was hoping to go this week but the weather has been awful."

I’ve never known a summer like this! Wow! We will be lucky to get a nude beach day this year at this rate!

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By *ettercallsaul118Man
19 weeks ago

Funtown

Friday sun's out and tomorrow to be better great day for it lol

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By *etfunky2Man
19 weeks ago

Howwood

Was hoping to go today or tomorrow but the weather isn't quite nice enough.

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By *otmilf29Woman
19 weeks ago

Irvine

Yip weather been shocking think I've managed 3 times but wasn't overly warm last time

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By *illieNudistMan
19 weeks ago

Hurlford

Not managed once and it's July already, not been good enough to take time off work.....

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By *thedMan
18 weeks ago

stirling

I think it should be good enough weather tomorrow. Just.

I think a visit will be happening.

Anyone else?

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By *ndy88Man
18 weeks ago

Irvine

Who’s going today? Lovely day down the coast

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By *itartnhimCouple
18 weeks ago

ayrshire

Nice one today

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By *agnar2323Man
18 weeks ago

Valhalla

"Nice one today "

Is it busy might take the dog for a walk before the wife gets in.lol

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By *itartnhimCouple
18 weeks ago

ayrshire

Not bad a few down

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By *MACMANMan
18 weeks ago

North Ayrshire

I was there yesterday, a few guys around.

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By *otmilf29Woman
18 weeks ago

Irvine

Made the most of the garden today busy packing for a week in the sun

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By *ighdrive_69Man
18 weeks ago

saltcoats

Been wanting ti get into discreet outdoor fun

Whens best times to go to the beach area for fun ? Am new to the outdoor scene so any tips are much appreciated x

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By *assy LassieWoman
18 weeks ago

Lanarkshire

Don't think there is a diary for appointments

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By (user no longer on site)
18 weeks ago

Shocking summer thank god for Greece in May ..don't look like I will get anymore naked tanning to play del ingles in October

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By *luebell888Woman
18 weeks ago

Glasgowish

"Shocking summer thank god for Greece in May ..don't look like I will get anymore naked tanning to play del ingles in October "

I will be on a nudist beach in September in Majorca

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By *ndy88Man
18 weeks ago

Irvine

It’s like December down the coast today…. Something isn’t right with this weather

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By (user no longer on site)
18 weeks ago

"Shocking summer thank god for Greece in May ..don't look like I will get anymore naked tanning to play del ingles in October

I will be on a nudist beach in September in Majorca "

I am sure you will enjoy Mallorca

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By *ndy111000Man
18 weeks ago

saltcoats

Any one going here on Friday

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By *uitnboot72Man
18 weeks ago

north Ayrshire

Yes rabbie is painted in ardeer beach

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By *uitnboot72Man
18 weeks ago

north Ayrshire

Was frequent at ardeer for a while but not been recently,might b worth a visit again

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By *lasgowcouple07Couple
17 weeks ago

glasgow

Hoping the weather picks up soon to get back down there

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By *andp888Couple
17 weeks ago

Glasgow

maybe there tomorrow , keeping my legs crossed lol

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By *appynudeMan
17 weeks ago

glasgow

I was there early evening today. Was too cold really!

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By *ylonsxxxMan
17 weeks ago

Ayrshire

Today anyone?

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By *ndy88Man
16 weeks ago

Irvine

Anyone heading along today?

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By *illieNudistMan
16 weeks ago

Hurlford

Anyone down and can say if it's busy and what's the weather like?

Heading home from work and wondering if it's worth the drive down ??

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By *anjoman1000Man
16 weeks ago

Glasgow

Yes indeed it is but you have to walk another 500 yds or so in the direction of Irvine to find nudes

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By *illieNudistMan
16 weeks ago

Hurlford

Managed a couple of hours then nit got overcast and a bit chilly, hopefully manage down again soon. Was a few folk down, two couples and a few guys further down.

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By *ndy111000Man
16 weeks ago

saltcoats

Anyone going her Saturday or Sunday

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By *illieNudistMan
16 weeks ago

Hurlford

Wednesday looking a good day.... Might put a holiday in

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By *ulutvTV/TS
16 weeks ago

ayrshire

Where do you park the car please

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By *igboobiesCouple
16 weeks ago

Saltcoats

"Where do you park the car please

Google stevenston point that's best place to park

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By *illieNudistMan
16 weeks ago

Hurlford

"Where do you park the car please

There's a big car park at Stevenston point or you can drive an extra quarter of a mile over rough ground towards the beach...... Not good for the car tyres though.

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By *ndy111000Man
15 weeks ago

saltcoats

Anyone one going today

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By *andp888Couple
15 weeks ago

Glasgow

Nice here in ardeer x

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By *ndy111000Man
15 weeks ago

saltcoats

Smashing day for it nice sunny

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By *ndy111000Man
15 weeks ago

saltcoats

Your next time me right hand side

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By *recian2000Man
15 weeks ago

Glasgow

Could someone PM exactly where on the beach I should go as I'm hoping to visit next week.

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By *asmine_23Woman
15 weeks ago

Ayrshire

Went today for the first time! Didn’t see anyone though ☹️

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By *ndy111000Man
15 weeks ago

saltcoats

Was good there today aloot people nice speaking to them all after only being there 4 times

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By *ev12368Man
15 weeks ago

glasgow

Was down for a bit this afternoon afew folk about cracking day for the beach

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By *andp888Couple
15 weeks ago

Glasgow

[Removed by poster at 28/07/24 22:49:05]

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By *andp888Couple
15 weeks ago

Glasgow

"Your next time me right hand side "
,,, wer u next to us x

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By *andp888Couple
15 weeks ago

Glasgow

"Went today for the first time! Didn’t see anyone though ☹️"
,,, lol we wer there x

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By *asmine_23Woman
15 weeks ago

Ayrshire

"Went today for the first time! Didn’t see anyone though ☹️,,, lol we wer there x

I’ve maybe missed everyone. I went down about 5pm just to see where it was really!

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By *ndy111000Man
15 weeks ago

saltcoats

Yeah I was had a tattoo o my arm and chest

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By *b735Man
15 weeks ago

Glasgow

Weather going to be nice enough today?🌞

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By *illieNudistMan
15 weeks ago

Hurlford

Heading down tomorrow (Wednesday) for the day, hopefully the weather stays good like it says

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By *evils PuddingCouple
15 weeks ago

the pub or in the nude in Paisley

Looks like the weather will certainly be good enough (and Thursday too)

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By *ev12368Man
15 weeks ago

glasgow

Just on the beach lovely weather today

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By *illieNudistMan
15 weeks ago

Hurlford

"Just on the beach lovely weather today "

Is it busy today?

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By *ev12368Man
15 weeks ago

glasgow

afew folk about

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By (user no longer on site)
15 weeks ago

I'm going to head about 3.30pm if anyone needs directions or fancies meeting up give me a pm

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By *yrshirejoinerMan
15 weeks ago

lots of places

I'm thinking about going tomorrow 'thursday'

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By *ellinever70Woman
15 weeks ago

Ayrshire

"I'm thinking about going tomorrow 'thursday'"

You're a day ahead of yourself

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By *oeaitkenMan
15 weeks ago

kirkintilloch

Wednesday for me. Naked sunbathing. Lovely

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By *unman112Man
15 weeks ago

ayrshire

Is it worth while going in evening ?

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By *ulutvTV/TS
15 weeks ago

ayrshire

Thank you x

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By *ulutvTV/TS
15 weeks ago

ayrshire

Thank you x

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By *yrshirejoinerMan
15 weeks ago

lots of places

Lol so I am thanks

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By *illieNudistMan
15 weeks ago

Hurlford

About a dozen guys here, no ladies or couples..... Really warm though

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By *ev12368Man
15 weeks ago

glasgow

Still early tbf I might head down late afternoon to be warm all day

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By *otmilf29Woman
15 weeks ago

Irvine

I was there from 1ish til 3 ...probably only female there lol

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By *illieNudistMan
15 weeks ago

Hurlford

You passed me as I walked up from the water and I was putting suncream on..... I was at the last big concrete wall.

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By *otmilf29Woman
15 weeks ago

Irvine

Ah missed you then

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By *homMan
15 weeks ago

Inverclyde

[Removed by poster at 31/07/24 19:37:09]

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By *yrshirejoinerMan
15 weeks ago

lots of places

Typical was going to come to the beach today and its raining

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By *ooking4othersMan
15 weeks ago

Here ...

Suns out and its glorious this afternoon ... unfortunately I'm working

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By *otmilf29Woman
15 weeks ago

Irvine

It turned out gorgeous yesterday...got burnt lol

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By *eviant TogMan
15 weeks ago

Barton Mills

"I was there from 1ish til 3 ...probably only female there lol"

Did you have any fun there?

Would love to be there when you were

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By *ndy111000Man
14 weeks ago

saltcoats

Anyone going on Saturday

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By *aughty 1 and Naughty 2Couple
13 weeks ago

the couple from next door

Today looks good for it

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By *MACMANMan
13 weeks ago

North Ayrshire

[Removed by poster at 15/08/24 09:35:16]

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By *MACMANMan
13 weeks ago

North Ayrshire

"It turned out gorgeous yesterday...got burnt lol"

Hi, were you there yesterday - 14th ?

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By *ndy111000Man
12 weeks ago

saltcoats

Anyone going here tomorrow

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By *ndy111000Man
11 weeks ago

saltcoats

Anyone going here on Saturday

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By *ust along for the rideMan
11 weeks ago

Glasgow

Was thinking about going this afternoon, anyone else going

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By *ew couple4youCouple
11 weeks ago

Glasgow

How do you get there ?

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By *njoylife2fullMan
11 weeks ago

Lanarkshire

Yes that’s it

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By *ralPerfectionistMan
11 weeks ago

Glasgow

This a nudist beach with swinging too?

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By *punker555Man
10 weeks ago

ka21

Hardly anyone down ther few auld men

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By *ubmischiefMan
10 weeks ago

Airdrie

Weather looks great for Saturday so will definitely be heading there with a female friend x

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By *etfunky2Man
10 weeks ago

Howwood

Weather seems a bit inconsistent but will pop along at some point.

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