FabSwingers.com forum: re: independence

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Regarding independence for scotland, would you really trust Alex Salmond, or Nicola Sturgeon, a woman who has defended a benefit fraudster in the courts twice, personally speaking I wouldnt trust them as far as I could throw them

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By *ikkiBWoman
over a year ago

Falkirk

I was always told never trust a fish because they are slippery devils... so I cant trust a Salmon and a Sturgeon :P

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was always told never trust a fish because they are slippery devils... so I cant trust a Salmon and a Sturgeon :P"

The

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Never forget it was the SNP who brought down the Callaghan government in 1979, forcing the general election which brought Thatcher into power.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I still wouldn't trust Alex Salmon or Nicola Sturgeon, to honour any promises made on behalf of Scotland, they proved they are only out for what they can get, I wouldnt buy a used car from Salmon, and as for Sturgeon, she gives support to a person who sticks two fingers up the laws of the land, so how can I trust someone who would do that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/03/13 12:16:06]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You are not voting for Salmond to become King of Scotland FFS. You are voting for independance. Who leads an Independant scotland would be decided at that time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

None of that he says/she says bullshit matters one iota. The whole point is that we can and should have the right to make our own decisions and if we make mistakes doing so then so be it instead of being dictated to and shat upon from a great height by the English coz thats what is happening and has been for hundreds of years...its time we told them that enough is enough and took control of our own affairs...if Scotland is to further spiral downwards then at least it will be dictated to by people who are from here and who have been elected by people from here ! I believe Scotland will vote yes and good or bad its only right that we are governed by our own! Im not anti anyone im just pro Scottish !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Independence will reduce Scotland to the status of a 3rd world country. Unless of course you believe in "wee eck" where we can live on whisky, oil, which we don't own anyway and shortbread! Bollocks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At least it will be by our own hand which is the whole point!

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By *ikkiBWoman
over a year ago

Falkirk

"You are not voting for Salmond to become King of Scotland FFS. You are voting for independance. Who leads an Independant scotland would be decided at that time. "

We wont get to. Salmond already thinks he is lol

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"At least it will be by our own hand which is the whole point!"

That sounds like the definition of suicide.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Regarding independence for scotland, would you really trust Alex Salmond, or Nicola Sturgeon, a woman who has defended a benefit fraudster in the courts twice, personally speaking I wouldnt trust them as far as I could throw them "

Yip lets stay with and trust the con-dem millionaires and watch while they do there damdest to turn us into a 3rd world country,also the snp have done more for the working class in a few yrs than labour did in a generation il be voting for independence .

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By *urioduoCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire

does the law of the land not say that everyone is entitled to legal defence , therefor cant see what she has done wrong in defending someone as is their right

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By *urioduoCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire

tho I do concede I would not trust Alex as far as i could through him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Independence will reduce Scotland to the status of a 3rd world country. Unless of course you believe in "wee eck" where we can live on whisky, oil, which we don't own anyway and shortbread! Bollocks. "

Get your facts right. We do own the revenue from any oil within our boundaries. Dont believe the no campaigners who say we dont. International law. So its bollocks to your post lol

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By *ombowieMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

oil revenue is all very well but when the well runs dry what do we do then and if you want independence then you will need to join the Euro as the UK constitution will not allow us to retain sterling, the Euro which every other country wishes never existed. Independence will guarantee inflation beyond belief, I would rather trust a double glazing salesman than that wee fat toad Salmond

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By *ustus222Couple
over a year ago

Newburgh

so, you would not trust Alex or Nicola????? But, you trust Cameron and Clegg or Milliband? Get a grip!!! Its about being an independent country nothing to do with SNP, get that into your heads!!!!!!NOTHING!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"oil revenue is all very well but when the well runs dry what do we do then and if you want independence then you will need to join the Euro as the UK constitution will not allow us to retain sterling, the Euro which every other country wishes never existed. Independence will guarantee inflation beyond belief, I would rather trust a double glazing salesman than that wee fat toad Salmond"

We only need to join the euro if we join the EU. If we dont join the EU we can kick out all the eastern europeans etc and decide who we let into our own country. By the time the well runs dry we will have earned 50 billion in revenue which can be used to create new employment. We would be the most asset rich counrty in Europe. Thats an independant fact

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By *ethany10Couple
over a year ago

falkirk

Living up in Scotland for the past 25 years, I see no benefit from independence. Also being English I don't have the Scottish heritage but I'll be voting 'no' unless I can clearly see some advantage in doing so.

Steve

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

Who actually gets to vote ....whats the criteria...ive still not heard

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think it will happen, the queen will not let it..that's my opinion!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Never said we trust any politicians, and who would, but this will always be a better country together than listening to that litle fat toad. he skirts round everything but now passed it on to his puppet, clever. I really wonder why everyone actually believes we could afford to even think about settling our share of the national debt

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By *ombowieMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"so, you would not trust Alex or Nicola????? But, you trust Cameron and Clegg or Milliband? Get a grip!!! Its about being an independent country nothing to do with SNP, get that into your heads!!!!!!NOTHING!!!!!

"
. Totally agree well said

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

Soo..... on the ground.

COUNCIL TAX FREEZE:- complete bullshit we would have got it with labour anyways wouldn't we? THEN WHY DIDN'T THEY? Oh, wait, only 8 months after their pledge at the 2011 election to freeze the CT for 4 years, they've turned around and said it should be raised. Last time they raised it 65%. And now the UK Govt (that we didn't vote for) have cut council-tax benefit, meaning the local councils and Scottish Govt. have had to find the money from "somewhere". That's happening an awful lot nowadays, and the Scot. Govt. can't borrow money...if we were independent of course...

FREE PRESCRIPTIONS:- well nobody needs that do they? I mean all the stories of people with chronic illnesses committing suicide or living without heating because they can't afford both, they are just spin aren't they? As a person with what would be £565.00

a year worse off, and thats only essential medication, not to mention all the other things that make my life bearable, i can PERSONALLY tell you that they are not. I have seen so many people suffering. Good for you if you don't need free prescriptions. Some of us REALLY do.

FREE EDUCATION:- In England & Wales, students now have to pay up to £9,000 a year for their university education, and college education is losing it's EMA. In Scotland, we have free education. Some of the right-wing types have accused Scotland of being "freeloaders" for this; we're not, we're paying for it and sacrificing other things, because a lot of our taxes instead go to London. We're being ripped off.

That's just 3 things. We're trying to build a new economy; the oil debate is a misnomer, they get so excited about it in London because they depend on the oil revenues for credit (worth about £1 trillion in security) and tax borrowing. We don't. We're going to be generating 100% of our energy needs by renewables by 2020. The oil is a welcome shot in the arm, the icing on the cake of the wealthy independent Scotland.

Alas, too many focus on the scaremongering fed to them by London-owned media with interests elsewhere, or on the "celebrity" aspect of politics...saying you won't vote for independence because you don't like Alex Salmond is like saying you don't own a TV because you don't like Britain's Got Talent. It's one politician, in one party. If you don't like him, don't vote for him. Independence is about Scotland being run from Scotland, by people elected by the Scottish people, all of us, whether we can trace our ancestry back to the clans, or we hail from more southern climbs, or indeed our Scots Asians, Scots Africans; we're all Scots, and we all get a say.

Vote no, and we don't.

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By *ustus222Couple
over a year ago

Newburgh

We are a mere 8.3% of the UK,

We pay 10.3% in taxes to the UK,

We recieve 9.3% back to run Scotland.

That dfoes not include oil revenue! And, we survive better than England.

Imagine what we could do if we kept it?

Its a NO BRAINER!

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

It kind of pisses me off that some people would continue to let people suffer and die, just because they don't like Alex Salmond.

Oh but thats right, it's not happening to you, so why should you care?

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By *ustus222Couple
over a year ago

Newburgh

A NO vote means you have done NOTHING.

A NO vote means you will get NOTHING.

A NO vote means you deserve NOTHING.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/03/13 17:02:26]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

2 plus. i would be interested in what act,section, chapter etc of "international law" you are suggesting. i have access to hundreds of law books and it would save me a lot of time if you could direct me to the correct volume...thanks.

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By *lassic1Man
over a year ago

bellshill

Im afraid to say it but lets wake up to the fact that 90% of good old Jock Tmason bairns up here have not got a scooby what fiscal monetary solutions are avaiable and what Scotlands true economic balance would be...never mind the peripheral stuff like Armies etc.

God forbid that Salmond and Co. play the religious card then the ball is well and truely in the slates.

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By *r and Mrs SnogalotCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

100% renewable energy by 2020? Are we not already behind on that target? Is it not the case that the windfarms are not generating as much energy as was anticipated? This country does not have a brilliant track record on delivering against targets (homelessness and trams being two that spring instantly to mind).

Benefits - I am massively against what this government is doing regarding welfare reform, have posted about it a number of times. But, even without the reforms where is Scotland going to get the money to pay its benefits bill?

Voting NO is doing nothing? I disagree it is exercising ones right to express an opinion.

The scare mongering press on BOTH sides are an absolute hinderance to this debate as it is difficult to make an informed choice.

Who will do the work of the European Workers when we kick them out if the country? Some would rather claim benefits than lift a finger and work!

Complete removal from the UK i am dead against. We simply cannot afford it. The right to make decisions on Scottish Policy - absolutely I will back that option in a heart beat. Just my humble opinion

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

as far as my post is concerned, i still think Nicola Sturgeon, was wrong to defend someone who deliberately and fraudulently claimed money he wasn't entitled to, and got off with both charges because Nicola Sturgeon, defended this crook!! and thats what he was, pure and simple- crooks shouldnt go crawling to their MP for support, having flouted the law, no question this fraudster should have got jail time

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By *oftfocusMan
over a year ago

EDINBURGH

Please don't vote on today's political situation.That will come and go.

Think of the centuries to come. This will be our legacy.Salmond,Gouldie et al are irrelevant in this.

Ask yourself,in 300 years from now,do THEY think i might the correct choice?

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"It kind of pisses me off that some people would continue to let people suffer and die, just because they don't like Alex Salmond.

Oh but thats right, it's not happening to you, so why should you care?"

The reality is, salmonds policies are causing people to suffer and die. The council tax freeze, free prescriptions, and free higher education is taking money away from the most vulnerable in society and giving it to others who don't have the same need

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"It kind of pisses me off that some people would continue to let people suffer and die, just because they don't like Alex Salmond.

Oh but thats right, it's not happening to you, so why should you care?"

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By *oftfocusMan
over a year ago

EDINBURGH

"It kind of pisses me off that some people would continue to let people suffer and die, just because they don't like Alex Salmond.

Oh but thats right, it's not happening to you, so why should you care?

You are being ironic/sarcastic i take it.

(never can tell the difference)

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

I'm assuming you don't have any idea of the (lack of) care for those who really need it?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"as far as my post is concerned, i still think Nicola Sturgeon, was wrong to defend someone who deliberately and fraudulently claimed money he wasn't entitled to, and got off with both charges because Nicola Sturgeon, defended this crook!! and thats what he was, pure and simple- crooks shouldnt go crawling to their MP for support, having flouted the law, no question this fraudster should have got jail time"

He did, he got two years. It was his second conviction. He got 4 years previously for stealing from the Post Office he ran.

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By *oftfocusMan
over a year ago

EDINBURGH

"I'm assuming you don't have any idea of the (lack of) care for those who really need it?"

Enlighten me.

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

"I'm assuming you don't have any idea of the (lack of) care for those who really need it?

Enlighten me."

Quite interested myself actually, do enlighten us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"At least it will be by our own hand which is the whole point!

That sounds like the definition of suicide."

Obviously you haven't understood what i said!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really dont know enough about it to commit to saying confidently, yes it will be fantastic if we become independant.

Maybe if someone listed a few other countries that are and are doing brilliantly because they are i may understand the potential of it better?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Has anyone had the snp leaflet through the door saying how great we will be independant?

Have to laugh at the presumption...last line says a referendum will take place in 2014 then will go on to vote fir which party will lead.

Erm...shouldn't we wait to see the result of the ballot first!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unfortunatly it has allways been the case that a large proportion of scots look towards england to look after their best interests .Even today a sizable proportion of the resident population of Scotland are most keen to be ruled by posh dave , his cardboard cut out mate clegg and the boy osbourne , thankfully nobody that is genuinely Scots would ever hold to such an opinion . The only way is freedom , and if it goes horribly wrong and Scotland crashes we will have the undoubted great pleasure of taking the country to the south of us down with us

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I really dont know enough about it to commit to saying confidently, yes it will be fantastic if we become independant.

Maybe if someone listed a few other countries that are and are doing brilliantly because they are i may understand the potential of it better?"

The UK has a defecit of 6% on GDP. Norway has a surplus of 10%. They are a small nation . But of course the average Scotsman is incapable of running their own country. We need the public schoolboys from the home counties to keep us right. Well at least thats their argument

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By *lassic1Man
over a year ago

bellshill

"I really dont know enough about it to commit to saying confidently, yes it will be fantastic if we become independant.

Maybe if someone listed a few other countries that are and are doing brilliantly because they are i may understand the potential of it better?

I would seriously question that assertion....look at recent history and the percentage of Scots who have held high office in cabinet. Quite impressive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I really dont know enough about it to commit to saying confidently, yes it will be fantastic if we become independant.

Maybe if someone listed a few other countries that are and are doing brilliantly because they are i may understand the potential of it better?

I would seriously question that assertion....look at recent history and the percentage of Scots who have held high office in cabinet. Quite impressive."

I was being sarcastic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the Scots in office in westminster ? not too sure if Scotland would like any of them back . I think they stay south , they deserve each other

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Been to Norway, in a big oil boom and most things rather expensive to buy.

The people of Norway seem a very happy upbeat Nation generally.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

thats because they dont have to contend with england as a neighbour or half their population desperate to be ruled by england . its amazing how happy a country can be that has limited connections to england

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"At least it will be by our own hand which is the whole point!

That sounds like the definition of suicide.

Obviously you haven't understood what i said!"

I understood perfectly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree with wonder our descisions good or bad. You know we built the best of everything in every profession centuries ago why can't it be done again. SNP and independence all the way

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By *issyForDommeTV/TS
over a year ago

glasgow

Till you just keep talking the biggest pile of shite on this subject, you're the one claiming to be a true and genuine scot but you dont give a fuck about what's best for the country and just want to vote yes to spite the english even if does mean the ruin of scotland! Not giving a fuck about the future stability of your nation and a let it die just to fuck over the english attitude isn't a true and genuine scotsman!

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

"Till you just keep talking the biggest pile of shite on this subject, you're the one claiming to be a true and genuine scot but you dont give a fuck about what's best for the country and just want to vote yes to spite the english even if does mean the ruin of scotland! Not giving a fuck about the future stability of your nation and a let it die just to fuck over the english attitude isn't a true and genuine scotsman!

Well said

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By *ictiiWitchCouple
over a year ago

Helensburgh

The SNP and the yes campaign have nothing to do with getting the english out, a lot of the members come from south of the border and want to fight for Scotland because they believe we can be independent.

There is no place for racism in Scotland. None at all.

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By *ombowieMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"The SNP and the yes campaign have nothing to do with getting the english out, a lot of the members come from south of the border and want to fight for Scotland because they believe we can be independent.

There is no place for racism in Scotland. None at all."
. Totally agree with you ms p w can't stand the anti English bullshite

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By *oftfocusMan
over a year ago

EDINBURGH

"You know we built the best of everything in every profession centuries ago why can't it be done again. SNP and independence all the way"

Did we?Did we really ? Gosh.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

These would the same Eastern Europeans that Alex Salmond is getting ready to welcome even more of when Bulgaria joins the EU in a month or so? 'New Scots' I think he called them? Or in other words, 'people who will hopefully vote for me if I welcome them with open arms'? Would those be the ones you said we can kick out? Yeah, doesn't look like Alex Salmond is planning on doing that anytime soon...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A NO vote means you have done NOTHING.

A NO vote means you will get NOTHING.

A NO vote means you deserve NOTHING."

What utter tub-thumping nonsense! This is the kind of sensationalist garbage that the SNP is brilliant at pumping out. Along with their favourite word, scaremongering.

Let me ask you something. Lets assume the SNP win the vote, Independence goes ahead and its the day after our officially independence day, can you tell us EXACTLY how your life will have changed? WHat happens if you've been sold a dummy by the SNP and taxes have to go up, the oil revenue has to be adjusted down the way, public sector cuts have to be made but its ok, we're in charge of our own destiny! Its by our own hand so that makes it ok?

I run my own business and believe me, being in charge of your own destiny can be a f***ing scary place sometimes, The odd month when its been a bit quiet and you can't pay yourself (or at least not as much as you need to), I've never sat there, looked at the bills with a big smile on my face and though 'its ok though, I'M in control here!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So maybe you should let me run your business. I don't know what you do, I have no qualifications or experience in business and I don't know your market or local area. But hey - it won't be you fucking it all up, it'll be me. Get the analogy?

Further - what will happen if everyone votes 'NO'. Will the Westminster government suddenly realise that actually we can spend our money in better ways than Trident and sitting at the UN top table, we don't have to victimise the poor and create an artificial divide between public and private sector in a race to the bottom just so their shareholder mates can get even richer? Or maybe, we will have what little control (over air guns for example, woohoo) we have ripped away once the threat of independence doesn't feature in London's thinking anymore.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A NO vote means you have done NOTHING.

A NO vote means you will get NOTHING.

A NO vote means you deserve NOTHING.

What utter tub-thumping nonsense! This is the kind of sensationalist garbage that the SNP is brilliant at pumping out. Along with their favourite word, scaremongering.

Well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm assuming you don't have any idea of the (lack of) care for those who really need it?

Enlighten me.

Quite interested myself actually, do enlighten us."

I'm waiting for the explanation of this as well.

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By *ustus222Couple
over a year ago

Newburgh

Tell me exactly what is going to happen if we stay in the UK? Nothing. We will remain bing governed by another country and we will still be struggling. Man up and vote yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

take the chance to vote for freedom while we have the chance , unlike the people of scotland in the past that had to die for the right to be free . if this vote is lost Scotland will be no more. the english wont make the mistake of letting Scotland threaten the revenues they collect from the oil that comes ashore in my country . they will make damm sure that Scoland will be nothing more than a memory on a biscuit tin and a conveneint place to store europes largest nuclear arsnal. all the people that live in Scotland that actually vote to be ruled by another country should hang their heads in shame .

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

The yes vote is doomed from the outset.

To many people will be voting no,for reasons out with any political reasoning,or logic.

Parochial viewpoints will win the day.

I love being Scottish,but I'm also realistic enough to recognise,that to many scottish people will vote,based solely on their narrow minded,insular outlook,above all else,quite sad really.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

many people living in Scotland will vote to continue to be ruled by the english , but in my opinion no real Scot will vote that way .

FREEDOM

Scotland

free or a desert

its the only way

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".............its the only way

Look how well it's suited Iceland, Ireland and Cyprus.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and norway and holland and sweden and denmark , its amazing how successful a country can be once the shackles from the fag end of the english empire have been broken .

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"and norway and holland and sweden and denmark , its amazing how successful a country can be once the shackles from the fag end of the english empire have been broken .

I wasn't aware Norway and Holland and Sweden and Denmark had ever been part of the 'English' empire, but there you go, eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

that is why they are sussesful countrys , because they are lucky not to have much to do with england ,

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"that is why they are sussesful countrys , because they are lucky not to have much to do with england ,

There are lots of successful countries which have had nothing to do with England.

The reason standards of living/ happiness quotient in Scandinavian countries is so good, is because of very high taxes - as you'll have seen if you've ever tried to take out a mortgage on a bevvy in Bergen or a swally in Stockholm.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

they might well pay high taxes , but they pay them to their own taxman , not paying our hard earned cash to another country . no country on the planet freely gives its money away to another country in the hope that they might give us some of it back , and expect us to be grateful for it . cant waite til Scotland is free , it will be somuch fun to see the country south of us cope with their tory party utterly buggering up their economy ,

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"........... no country on the planet freely gives its money away to another country in the hope that they might give us some of it back , and expect us to be grateful for it ..........

That of course is to completely, perhaps deliberately, misunderstand Joel Barnett's legacy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Food aside, what are the 3 most important resources in modern society? Water, electricity and oil. We already have excess oil and water, hah, and within a decade we will have an excess supply of renewable energy. Both of which are lacking down south. Exporting electricity south is not an issue at current, and once the high speed train is built there are plans to transport water to the south east. Without Independence we (Scottish) will not reap the monetary benefits this will offer, but with it we can begin exporting the 3 most vital resources in society to one of the most resource hungry nations in the world.

This, along with the fact that Scotland has paid more tax per capita than the rest of the UK every year for the last 30 supports the idea that we, as a nation, can survive and prosper on our own.

There is only one hurdle in the way. Alex bloody Salmond

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"........ Exporting electricity south is not an issue at current, and once the high speed train is built there are plans to transport water to the south east. ........."

Why wait for HS2? Does water go off in transit?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"........ Exporting electricity south is not an issue at current, and once the high speed train is built there are plans to transport water to the south east. .........

Why wait for HS2? Does water go off in transit?"

Well if we don't wait for the train they have to build one big ass pipeline. From what I gather they were going to have trains dedicated to transporting water.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if we do start to give away our water to the south then trips should be arranged from all parts of the country to the place where the water is sent south so that we can all pee in it

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"........ Exporting electricity south is not an issue at current, and once the high speed train is built there are plans to transport water to the south east. .........

Why wait for HS2? Does water go off in transit?

Well if we don't wait for the train they have to build one big ass pipeline. From what I gather they were going to have trains dedicated to

transporting water. "

You've been listening to too much Alex (baw-face) Neil.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

rather have alex looking out for us than posh dave , his cardboard cut out mate cleggie or the boy osbourne , those 3 would sell whats left of Scotland down the swanny with great glee and gusto

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"rather have alex looking out for us than posh dave ,........."

You'll soon have neither.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i can live with that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is no place for racism in Scotland. None at all."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

oh , the english are fine , and when they have their own country to fuck up instead of ours then i will like them all the better

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Till couldn't have put it better myself!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i dont know why they want to keep our country ,

just because we have more oil off our shore than you could shake a shitty stick at , the richest fishery areas left in the european union , a goodly ammount of thorium in the hills for when uranium runs out , we dont have the encumberance of a tory party , and the largest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction outside of the usa

why would they want to keep little old Scotland ? probably so they have at least 1 country they can beet every year in the calcutta cup lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Till hopefully not for much longer lol .... When we get independence. Should we just buy Engerland and use it as a landfill site lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

last time i was down in england the place was a dump rubbish everywhere , it looks like they allready are using it as a landfil , lol , but we can allways send them more , just for laughts

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By *landAnnCouple
over a year ago

Inverness

Absolutely correct.

The UK isn't working any more, it's a shambles. It served a purpose for many years but it's time to move on now.

Could things really be any worse with Independence?

Do we really want to continue to be governed by that bunch of numpties Cameron-Clegg-Milliband?

Do we really want another 10/20/30 years of the same?

I certainly don't.

The difference between Scotland and England/Wales is that in Scotland we have a choice.

Unfortunately for them England/Wales is stuck with the Cameron-Clegg-Milliband bunch.

I hope Scotland votes YES for Independence, but I don't expect it will, because as the referendum gets closer the tabloids will start the usual campaign of negative scare tactics, the usual one-sided stories of how England subsidises Scotland, when in reality Scotland subsidises England!

Ask yourself this: If Scotland is such a drain on the UK economy why does the Westminster government put up such a fight to stop us becoming independent?

The truth is that the UK economy would be even more broke without Scotlands input.

Don't listen to the scaremongers, Scotland is very capable of looking after it's own affairs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Absolutely correct.

The UK isn't working any more, it's a shambles. It served a purpose for many years but it's time to move on now.

Could things really be any worse with Independence?

Do we really want to continue to be governed by that bunch of numpties Cameron-Clegg-Milliband?

Do we really want another 10/20/30 years of the same?

I certainly don't.

The difference between Scotland and England/Wales is that in Scotland we have a choice.

Unfortunately for them England/Wales is stuck with the Cameron-Clegg-Milliband bunch.

Ask yourself this: If Scotland is such a drain on the UK economy why does the Westminster government put up such a fight to stop us becoming independent?

The truth is that the UK economy would be even more broke without Scotlands input.

Don't listen to the scaremongers, Scotland is very capable of looking after it's own affairs."
Here here .... Time to believe in ourselves again!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

absolutly , this could well be gotterdamerlung , but instead of it being the twilight of the gods it could be england and its satalite states , wales and northen ireland ,that are at the brink , Scotland needs to break free or we will most certianly be dragged to oblivion with them .

In the struggle for Scotland

" No pity , No remorsen , No surrender "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

its better by far to die fighting in the struggle for Scotlands freedom than to continue to live in a slave state .

our forfathers held to this belief in the long struggles against the cold grasping hand of the south and it is just as valid a belief now .

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By *abtheladMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I hate being Scottish. We're the lowest of the fucking low, the scum of the earth, the most wretched, servile, miserable, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the English, but I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers. We can't even pick a decent culture to be colonized by. We are ruled by effete arseholes. It's a shite state of affairs and all the fresh air in the world will not make any fucking difference."

Renton

Voting "Aye"!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thank feck I don't have that opinion of myself or my country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I see this issue as purely one of nationalism.

Most state capitals in the US are further away from Washington and a lot larger than Scotland. You don't hear them whining about wanting independence.

Someone's got an olde worlde grudge against the english and getting their own back in a modern way. That's all it will come down to in the end. The Yes campaign will start parading partiotic images all over the place in the lead up to it.

And even if the yes vote wins, how many years do you think it will take to happen?

Everything that will have to happen, all the financial and economic links to be sorted could take ages. Not to mention Scotlands portion of the 1+ Trillion national debt to be taken on. That'll make a fair dint in the 50 Billion oil reserves someone quoted earlier.

The UK government already has a deficit in the amount received in tax to the amount spent. Scotland will also inherit it's own portion of that deficit. The only way to cover that initially at least is a tax hike.

Your politicians aee just as bad and some come from just as privileged backgrounds as Cameron and Miliband. Your government is just as wasteful. Look at the unnecessary, over budget, behind time tram project in Edinburgh.

I fail to see how you're being oppressed by the London government in any way. That sort of thing ended long ago and to me this just seems like score settling on a historical level. Devolve more powers certainly, but going it alone is like a teenager having a strop for being told what to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Scotland has no deficit , for 300 years we have been lorded over and ruled from london , they are the bunch of dafties that have managed to run up a huge deficit , its all theirs , not a single penny of it was run up by Scotland , not a single penny of it needs to be paid back by Scotland . its going to be so funny watching the south trying to pay off their debts without the oil revenues

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By *oftfocusMan
over a year ago

EDINBURGH

Check out what the SNP have planned for "The Homecoming" in 2014(the last one being an utter disaster).

One of the "highlights" is a renactment of the Battle of Bannockburn !!!

Jesus H Christ .

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Check out what the SNP have planned for "The Homecoming" in 2014(the last one being an utter disaster).

One of the "highlights" is a renactment of the Battle of Bannockburn !!!

Jesus H Christ .

Eck'll probably manage to lose that too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Makes a change from being reminded about 1966 & 2003. This is all part of our history and heritage. There is nothing to be ashamed of in celebrating & recognising bannock burn. Rightly so we do it on Remembrance Day why not for home coming.

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By *oftfocusMan
over a year ago

EDINBURGH

"Makes a change from being reminded about 1966 & 2003. This is all part of our history and heritage. There is nothing to be ashamed of in celebrating & recognising bannock burn. Rightly so we do it on Remembrance Day why not for home coming. "

rembembering it and doing a reanactment are two very different things.

Thousands died there.seems pretty poor taste.

Also to hold it 3mmths before the vote seems shameless. And who pays for it ?

Us.the last one was a huge financial disaster.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

scotland should re enact every hammering that was inflicted on the southern ones , and constantly broadcast the suffering at the hands of them that we have had to endure , so nobody is under any illusion as to what they have done to us in the past and will be more than capable of doing again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

rembembering it and doing a reanactment are two very different things.

Thousands died there.seems pretty poor taste.

Also to hold it 3mmths before the vote seems shameless. And who pays for it ?

Us.the last one was a huge financial disaster.

"
whats shameless is what they done, how they went about the highland clearances that's what's shameless.

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

I honestly don't think I've ever seen someone as simple as the poster Till. All this anti English racism is out of order. And to talk about Scots fighting against the english, ffs learn you're history and realise that wasn't quite what it was all about, i.e. Lowland Scots fought against the highland clans in the 18th century.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

in all honesty if being an independant scotland means being associated with some of the muppets spouting nonsense here am off to azerbajahn find a shady spot and sell coconuts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Scotland has no deficit , for 300 years we have been lorded over and ruled from london , they are the bunch of dafties that have managed to run up a huge deficit , its all theirs , not a single penny of it was run up by Scotland , not a single penny of it needs to be paid back by Scotland . its going to be so funny watching the south trying to pay off their debts without the oil revenues

You're trolling right? No-one can be that narrow minded in this day and age surely?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

nothing narrow minded about it , westminster called the shots for 300 years , westminster made a total fuck up of things , but as soon as Scotland wants freedom then the debt becomes ours ? its certianly a neet con trick worthy of the best snake oil salesmen on the planet ,hope the people of Scotland wont be too gullable as toget taken in by it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is your post about independence or this?

I'm confused

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"nothing narrow minded about it , westminster called the shots for 300 years , westminster made a total fuck up of things , but as soon as Scotland wants freedom then the debt becomes ours ? its certianly a neet con trick worthy of the best snake oil salesmen on the planet ,hope the people of Scotland wont be too gullable as toget taken in by it

Part of the national debt is Scotlands. I think it currently runs at around 40k per head of population and rising. Anyone who has ever used a single public service is part cause of it. It's been building up since the end of WW2 and has become worse due to financial mismanagement by politicians that WE elected.

So you're getting part of it! You cant wash your hands and say you weren't part of it because it happened in London.

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

"in all honesty if being an independant scotland means being associated with some of the muppets spouting nonsense here am off to azerbajahn find a shady spot and sell coconuts

Make me a piña colada then cause I'm with ya in that!!! Makes we wanna vote no simply to annoy him

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Sorry to butt in on a private tragedy, but as a Scotland loving Englander with a wee dram of Scottish blood, who spent most of his life in Scotlands 2nd capital (Blackpool

) I thought I'd stick my two penny worth in.

Should Scotland opt for independence there will be many pro's and quite a lot of con's. I've read this whole thread and a lot of the points made by the pro independence people are quite valid on face value, but dig a little deeper and they soon become threadbare.

Everyone should be entitled to self determination, but where would that leave Scotland? Salmond has made it clear that he wants to retain EU membership so when you have swapped London for Brussels how independent would you really be? What is happening in Cyprus should be a big wake up call to any ideas of re-joining the EU as a small independent country.

So you could go it alone, 50 billion in oil revenue would last say 5 years (assuming you start with a clean piece of paper with no inherited debt) then what? Parts of Scotland (like England) have a massive benefit culture problem so either swingeing cuts or heavy tax hikes will be the only way. The days of small countries (or even large ones) borrowing to the hilt are rapidly coming to and end.

Scotland's only hope as an independent nation would be to stay out of the EU. and become a low tax offshore economy with its own currency and central bank.

It would need a big change in thinking, and some good Scottish prudence rather than Mediterranean greed and corruption but it could be done.

Oh and by the way, the "dafties" who ran up the UK deficit were both SCOTTISH.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

there has never ever been a government in westminster ruling my life that i have ever been so misguided as to have voted for them .who inScotland would ever vote for a southern public school party to rule them from another country ?

But when all is said and done it will be the southern folk that will set us free believe it or not . was chatting to a bloke in a pub in Scrabster last week , he was english and had a remarcable view of Scotls and all thing scottish , he cant waite to get rid of the lot of us for never has such a race of scroungers ever excisted before on the planet as us Scots . no matter how many folk living in Scotland who are desperate to still be ruled by the south happen to be , there are far far many more folk accross the border who are desperate to get shot of us , but keep the oil , ofcourse

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So you've never voted? That means all your opinions on this matter are all the more pointless and idiotic. It means you've had the chance to have your say and have ignored it.

And now you're willing to base your vote in the referendum on nothing more than 300 year old xenophobia.

I present to you the poster boy for the yes campaign.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

You're trolling right? No-one can be that narrow minded in this day and age surely?"

Oh yes they can. Welcome to the fantasy world of the cybernats.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

rembembering it and doing a reanactment are two very different things.

Thousands died there.seems pretty poor taste.

Also to hold it 3mmths before the vote seems shameless. And who pays for it ?

Us.the last one was a huge financial disaster.

whats shameless is what they done, how they went about the highland clearances that's what's shameless."

The Clearances was perpetrated BY Scots ON Scots.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"there has never ever been a government in westminster ruling my life that i have ever been so misguided as to have voted for them .who inScotland would ever vote for a southern public school party to rule them from another country ?

One random englishman,,ehh in a pub? Maybe a bit pished into the bargain?

Not exactly swaying the vote is it.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

One random englishman,,ehh in a pub? Maybe a bit pished into the bargain?

Not exactly swaying the vote is it.

Just another cybernat clutching at straws.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Firstly England would have only ever had one Labour government since WW2 if it wasn't for Scottish and Welsh Labour voters. So who foisted what on who?

As for getting shot of Scotland I for one and most level headed English would be horrified at the thought. While we have had a few ups and downs our union is of equals and long may it continue in spite of a few xenophobes on both sides of the border. Stirling Bridge, Bannockburn, The Boyne, and Culloden are all ancient history, and together we have defeated Bonaparte, Kaiser Bill, and Hitler, we even managed to get rid of a French usurper. So lets celebrate what we have achieved together and look forward to a future rather than living in the past.

As for the oil? England doesn't really need it in the long term. Production has been declining for a while now and will eventually run out, while the shale gas bonanza in Lancashire will more than cover any losses.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One random englishman,,ehh in a pub? Maybe a bit pished into the bargain?

Not exactly swaying the vote is it.

Just another cybernat clutching at straws."

Ehh ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the anti English xenophobia from till is simply racism cloaked as patriotism and on any other thread would be rightly removed and banned.

Lest we forget it was a Scots king who came up with the union a Scots king who implemented it and saw through its transition and the Scots who voted the act through in the first instance.

Personally id hate to see independence and a the end of the union. Britain is great because of its strange diversity cobbled together over the centuries. We found a working solution. Nothing can be gained from returning to being separate, segregated or alien to our neighbours.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

One random englishman,,ehh in a pub? Maybe a bit pished into the bargain?

Not exactly swaying the vote is it.

Just another cybernat clutching at straws.

Ehh ?"

As you say, he found one random Englishman and has tried to build a case on the basis of that experience.

Straw clutching at its worst.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you have mis read , probably deliberatly so , i have never voted for a party that is keen to govern me from a different country

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

one person he certianly was , randomly met in a pub absolutly , but in my travals round this collection of countrys where we reside his views have been very much in line with the majority of his countrymen that i have conversed with

its fact , a larger proportion of the population from the south want shot of us than the proportion of the population residing here in the north that is desperate for the continuance of rule from london

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cobblers. You've spoken to them all have you? Or had some sort of survey taken?

I think you have issues sir...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we all have issues , its a very humane trait , but that doesnt invalidate my experiances of garnering the views of people from the south

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By *oftfocusMan
over a year ago

EDINBURGH

"the anti English xenophobia from till is simply racism cloaked as patriotism and on any other thread would be rightly removed .

Xenophobic perhaps but not racist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i think i remember reading that a us president said "you have nothing to fear but frea its self " as soon as Scotland sucks it up and realises that its not so bad and scary a thing governing yourselves , a good few countrys manage it ,we will be on the right track to freedom. When all is said and done its just fear of the unknown , fear of having to make our own decisions instead of those nice southern folk making them for us .

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