FabSwingers.com forum: this country rotten to the core

By *entscotscpl OP Couple
over a year ago

falkirk ish

Passing this on to everyone

Unbeleivable.

Please scroll down

Read on and pass on:

Dear Prime Minister The RT. Hon. David Cameron, MP.

I wish to ask you a Question:- "Is This True?"

I refer to the Pension Reality Check.

Are you aware of the following?

The British Government provides the following financial assistance:-

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER

(bearing in mind they worked hard and paid their Income Tax and

National Insurance contributions to the British Government all their

working life)

Weekly allowance: £106.00?

IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN

(No Income Tax and National Insurance contribution whatsoever)

Weekly allowance: £250.00

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER

Weekly Spouse Allowance: £25.00?

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN

Weekly Spouse Allowance: £225.00

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER

Additional Weekly Hardship Allowance: £0.00?

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN

Additional Weekly Hardship Allowance: £100.00

A British old age pensioner is no less hard up than an illegal

immigrant/refugee yet receives nothing

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER

TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT £6,000?

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN

TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT: £29,900

Please read all and then forward to all your contacts so that we can

lobby for a decent state pension.

After all, the average pensioner has paid taxes and contributed to the

growth of this country for the last 40 to 60 years.

Sad isn't it? Surely it's about time we put our own people first.

Please have the guts to forward this.

I JUST DID!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

here we go again

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By *horstrollMan
over a year ago

Caprona

Care to confirm those stats as pukka please, off the top of me head, there is maybe a hidden agenda.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 01/11/12 20:51:02]

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

DWP response

I should first clarify that illegal immigrants are by definition unable to claim or qualify for any benefits whatsoever as they are usually living in the UK unknown to the relevant authorities.

unknown to the relevant authorities.

There is no standard benefit that asylum seekers can receive in the way suggested by the information you have received. Since 3 April 2000, asylum seekers who require assistance are offered support by way of a cash

allowance for living expenses and in some cases, accommodation. This

scheme is administered by the Home Office’s Asylum Support Service. The

weekly asylum support rates from April 2011 are £36.62 for a single person

and £72.52 for a couple over age 18.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Basically, what is pasted at the top of the thread is a hoax and has been doing the rounds for years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its getting like Facebook. Folk copy and paste thing that are utter crap because they cant be bothered to check it out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

whatever happened to a good old down to earth shag

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By *rystalsdragonCouple
over a year ago

central for fun / axarquia

The OP may be untrue or pinnochio'd through various social sites but our experience through loosing our business via our landlord was this....

1) we were tennants of an inn and lived in - our home and work!

2) reccession hit - landlord closed us - no home no work!

3) went to council and dss - according to them - gave up work and home as classed as self employed.

4) result - jobless and homeless with children in scotland??

5) went to homeless unit (with children in tow) which was full of jakies!! to be told not entitled to house as percentage are "FOR THE MIGRANTS & SOCIALLY DISPLACED"!!!

we had a holiday home abroad where we had no option but to move to !! but we had to sign an agreement in court there to say we would NOT claim their social security and be allowed to live there !!

this should be adopted here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"whatever happened to a good old down to earth shag

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Its getting like Facebook. Folk copy and paste thing that are utter crap because they cant be bothered to check it out. "

It's actually worse than that. Folks do in fact check out the crap, discover it's crap and post it anyway - 'cos it suits their agenda.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Whether its true or not I dont know but no one can ignore the fact that illegal immigrants/ asylum seekers cross through the whole of Europe to get to the UK as they know this is a soft touch for benefits and once they are here the chances of them being deported is virtualy nil this is despite asylum seekers supposed to seek asylum in the first country they land.

I am not being racist when I say this little island is already bursting at the seams and the door should be slammed shut.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whether its true or not I dont know but no one can ignore the fact that illegal immigrants/ asylum seekers cross through the whole of Europe to get to the UK as they know this is a soft touch for benefits and once they are here the chances of them being deported is virtualy nil this is despite asylum seekers supposed to seek asylum in the first country they land.

I am not being racist when I say this little island is already bursting at the seams and the door should be slammed shut.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let's not forget, Tony Blair, was the daft bugger-

who opened the door, in the first place!!! and when he realised it was gonna damage him politically, he tried to slam the door on it!!-

what happened Mrs Blair, QC, a human rights barrister, on £1000 a day! steps in to fight the expulsions!

not a racist, by any means- my college has many nationality's in it, but enough is enough

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its getting like Facebook. Folk copy and paste thing that are utter crap because they cant be bothered to check it out.

It's actually worse than that. Folks do in fact check out the crap, discover it's crap and post it anyway - 'cos it suits their agenda."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The OP may be untrue or pinnochio'd through various social sites but our experience through loosing our business via our landlord was this....

1) we were tennants of an inn and lived in - our home and work!

2) reccession hit - landlord closed us - no home no work!

3) went to council and dss - according to them - gave up work and home as classed as self employed.

4) result - jobless and homeless with children in scotland??

5) went to homeless unit (with children in tow) which was full of jakies!! to be told not entitled to house as percentage are "FOR THE MIGRANTS & SOCIALLY DISPLACED"!!!

we had a holiday home abroad where we had no option but to move to !! but we had to sign an agreement in court there to say we would NOT claim their social security and be allowed to live there !!

this should be adopted here

You went to the housing when you could of sold your bloody holiday home... Theres people eg what you called jackies that are worse off... And you lost the house here and buisness but you werent exactly homeless with a holiday home

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I am not being racist when I say this little island is already bursting at the seams and the door should be slammed shut.

It's not so much the fact the UK is a 'soft touch' for benefits (check what IDS is up to) but

1)that we've taken large chunks of EU money to house asylum seekers who get here.

2) other European countries are happy just to move asylum seeks on. When the reach the UK there's nowhere further to go and

3) there's no denying the lure of the English language. Most have been brought up on a diet of US/ British movies, tv programmes and music.

I'm told there are more Chinese students in Glasgow than asylum seekers and nobody seems to be complaining about them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The OP may be untrue or pinnochio'd through various social sites but our experience through loosing our business via our landlord was this....

1) we were tennants of an inn and lived in - our home and work!

2) reccession hit - landlord closed us - no home no work!

3) went to council and dss - according to them - gave up work and home as classed as self employed.

4) result - jobless and homeless with children in scotland??

5) went to homeless unit (with children in tow) which was full of jakies!! to be told not entitled to house as percentage are "FOR THE MIGRANTS & SOCIALLY DISPLACED"!!!

we had a holiday home abroad where we had no option but to move to !! but we had to sign an agreement in court there to say we would NOT claim their social security and be allowed to live there !!

this should be adopted here

Why don't you do a property exchange with one of those 'jakies' as you so politely called them!! Weren't you maybe refused housing due to the fact that you had 'a holiday home' abroad? Couldn't you sell it and use the proceeds to rehouse your family?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The OP may be untrue or pinnochio'd through various social sites but our experience through loosing our business via our landlord was this....

1) we were tennants of an inn and lived in - our home and work!

2) reccession hit - landlord closed us - no home no work!

3) went to council and dss - according to them - gave up work and home as classed as self employed.

4) result - jobless and homeless with children in scotland??

5) went to homeless unit (with children in tow) which was full of jakies!! to be told not entitled to house as percentage are "FOR THE MIGRANTS & SOCIALLY DISPLACED"!!!

we had a holiday home abroad where we had no option but to move to !! but we had to sign an agreement in court there to say we would NOT claim their social security and be allowed to live there !!

this should be adopted here

thats a bit harsh, ideal if holiday home could have been sold that day when the money was required. Or perhaps could just explain to kids that we will just b living on the streets for a few months or even years til it sells,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The OP may be untrue or pinnochio'd through various social sites but our experience through loosing our business via our landlord was this....

1) we were tennants of an inn and lived in - our home and work!

2) reccession hit - landlord closed us - no home no work!

3) went to council and dss - according to them - gave up work and home as classed as self employed.

4) result - jobless and homeless with children in scotland??

5) went to homeless unit (with children in tow) which was full of jakies!! to be told not entitled to house as percentage are "FOR THE MIGRANTS & SOCIALLY DISPLACED"!!!

we had a holiday home abroad where we had no option but to move to !! but we had to sign an agreement in court there to say we would NOT claim their social security and be allowed to live there !!

this should be adopted here

Not harsh at all, just reality! I'm sure the op was given some sort of warning about losing their home/job before it actually happened!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

It's worth remembering that every 'holiday' home is one less home in the domestic housing stock of the country it's in.

The last census reckoned there's something like 1,500,000 families in England and wales own a second property. A lot of these are holiday homes, used for only a few weeks a year.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A few idealist here, im sure if the family had plenty notice or indication that they where about to become homeless and jobless then they would have made arrangements to combat this! Its amazing how people can sit and comment on other peoples hardships without knowing the facts! Could you handle the situation better? Wouldnt you turn to your local authority and try and seek some help only if to maintain your childrens environment, such as schools and friends rather than up rooting them to foreign lands and unsetteling them more than they all ready have been?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A few idealist here, im sure if the family had plenty notice or indication that they where about to become homeless and jobless then they would have made arrangements to combat this! Its amazing how people can sit and comment on other peoples hardships without knowing the facts! Could you handle the situation better? Wouldnt you turn to your local authority and try and seek some help only if to maintain your childrens environment, such as schools and friends rather than up rooting them to foreign lands and unsetteling them more than they all ready have been?"

I'm sorry, but doesn't the same consideration apply to the 'junkies' that the op so politely derided for having the cheek to be in the same building as him/her while looking for somewhere to live?? You know, the ones that DON'T have the pleasure of having a second home to fall back on when times are hard and they have no-where to live???

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

And also had the choice whether to become "junkies" or not everyone knows what will happen if you use drugs so no sympathy will they ever get from me.

The op as you say worked and tried to do something with what may have been extra money at the time and due to circumstances maybe outwith their control lost job/business.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And also had the choice whether to become "junkies" or not everyone knows what will happen if you use drugs so no sympathy will they ever get from me.

The op as you say worked and tried to do something with what may have been extra money at the time and due to circumstances maybe outwith their control lost job/business. "

My point was, how does the op know they were/are 'junkies'? And if they are 'junkies', were they like that BEFORE becoming homeless, or, like a lot of homeless people, become that way due to circumstances??

Its easy to judge without looking at the bigger picture.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Junkies, cant stand them, they made the lifestyle choice! Cant stand this, oh ive had a hard life, so what. A lot of people have and never turned to drugs! Drain on our society, stealing, dealing, violence. And the pain and anguish they cause loved ones!

Well lets hope all you idealists adopt the same attitude when your life is affected by homelesness, unemployment or drug related crimes.

Seems to me that this all stems from a working family having a holiday home? How dare they?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Junkies, cant stand them, they made the lifestyle choice! Cant stand this, oh ive had a hard life, so what. A lot of people have and never turned to drugs! Drain on our society, stealing, dealing, violence. And the pain and anguish they cause loved ones!

Well lets hope all you idealists adopt the same attitude when your life is affected by homelesness, unemployment or drug related crimes.

Seems to me that this all stems from a working family having a holiday home? How dare they?"

Lol, idealist? Nope, just a REALIST. Not everyone who is homeless are junkies or alkies! (as the op just so proves by becoming homeless him/herself). Or is it a case of, they look dirty so they must be junkies!!

It would have been interesting to see the op sitting on a street corner with a sign saying, "need fares to go and live in my holiday home in marbella"! While some guy next to them had a sign saying "hungry, homeless and desperate"!

As i said before, surely the op in question had advance warning they were going to lose their job/home, so why not plan for it? But then again, being an 'idealist' maybe its just me that would do that!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In Scotland the legal minimum notice to quit is 3 months and even after 3 months has passed a person can't be forcibly removed without a court order

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In Scotland the legal minimum notice to quit is 3 months and even after 3 months has passed a person can't be forcibly removed without a court order "

Families with children under age of 16 are no longer allowed to be placed in homeless shelters but individual scatter flats this has been case since 2007

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I don't have a wife or kids but if I did, I know I'd have some rainy day money somewhere safe before I bought a holiday home.

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By *rystalsdragonCouple
over a year ago

central for fun / axarquia

the "holiday home" i mentioned had been bought many moons ago and was a run down old house in a rural area in eastern europe that we hoped in the future could make into a holiday home!! not a beach front in marbella!! that could have been easy to sell!!

the business that we invested in after in more recent years and no we had no choice as it drained our finances and then the brewery decided it wasent viable on their books & closed it !! a scene we see more and more in uk happening to local pubs.

sorry i chose to work hard and try and invest for my kids future and it back fired and we had to get on with it, i dont regret it as my son had an experience of living in another culture and intends to move back !!

but i dont agree that some folk out there choose not to work and scrounge then spend it getting wasted!! there are more and more unemployed now that would love to work but struggle to make ends meet but others just bleed the country dry!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so many judgemental people in here. im astounded that i cant hear all the fireworks from here, celebrating your perfectness, bet some of you are doing a lap of honour round your massive egos shouting " im so glad to be me" im suprised some of you have time to post in here as you must be so busy studying at the school of ideal lifestyles.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and for all you people banging on about the holiday home and relating it to the op,,,,please read forums properly first,,,,,and you may notice its 2 different users!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

oh and that old chestnut,,,,,i became a junkie because i became homeless and used drink and drugs to block out the cold,,,to help me cope,,,,honk,,,,,hear it all the time,,,,lots of homeless people dont do drugs.....and genuine homeless people like ex soldiers who find it hard to adjust in civi street or marriage broke down due to unemployment struggles also get no help from authorities that is why there are several re-homing schemes available to them,,,,,,,these exist because society does not care about people who put into society but would rather support the people who have and continue to be a strain on society....FACT and not all these people use heroin to block out the pain!!!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"and for all you people banging on about the holiday home and relating it to the op,,,,please read forums properly first,,,,,and you may notice its 2 different users!!!"

I don't see any posts where any contributors have conflated the two.

The OP posted a piece of internet nonsense. The former pub licensees sought to relate it to their situation.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".........FACT and not all these people use heroin to block out the pain!!!"

There's a good rule of internet thunb which suggest that comments emphasised by the word 'fact', especially in UPPER CASE, shouldn't be taken seriously.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"and for all you people banging on about the holiday home and relating it to the op,,,,please read forums properly first,,,,,and you may notice its 2 different users!!!

I don't see any posts where any contributors have conflated the two.

The OP posted a piece of internet nonsense. The former pub licensees sought to relate it to their situation."

im sorry, but doesn't the same consideration apply to the 'junkies' that the op so politely derided for having the cheek to be in the same building as him/her while looking for somewhere to live?? You know, the ones that DON'T have the pleasure of having a second home to fall back on when times are hard and they have no-where to live

op never had a 2nd home,,,,did they/?????

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"and for all you people banging on about the holiday home and relating it to the op,,,,please read forums properly first,,,,,and you may notice its 2 different users!!!

I don't see any posts where any contributors have conflated the two.

The OP posted a piece of internet nonsense. The former pub licensees sought to relate it to their situation.

op never had a 2nd home,,,,did they/?????"

I have no idea whether the OP had a second home or not, they didn't tell us.

Just as a matter of fact, the 'junkies' started as 'jaikies' - two very different things.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

"and for all you people banging on about the holiday home and relating it to the op,,,,please read forums properly first,,,,,and you may notice its 2 different users!!!"

I did say the op as you say as the person quoting was not quoting the op

excuse me if I have got it wrong as a wee bit under the weather.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"and for all you people banging on about the holiday home and relating it to the op,,,,please read forums properly first,,,,,and you may notice its 2 different users!!!

I did say the op as you say as the person quoting was not quoting the op

excuse me if I have got it wrong as a wee bit under the weather.

You got that bit right but when you said
"...........

I am not being racist when I say this little island is already bursting at the seams and the door should be slammed shut.

you're wrong. There's loads of space. We just choose not to use it.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

[Removed by poster at 03/11/12 01:28:42]

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

"and for all you people banging on about the holiday home and relating it to the op,,,,please read forums properly first,,,,,and you may notice its 2 different users!!!

I did say the op as you say as the person quoting was not quoting the op

excuse me if I have got it wrong as a wee bit under the weather.

You got that bit right but when you said ...........

I am not being racist when I say this little island is already bursting at the seams and the door should be slammed shut.

you're wrong. There's loads of space. We just choose not to use it."

Ok we will put everyone in glencoe and all these places that only sheep and deer can live and they can build their own homes?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

It doesn't have to be Glencoe. There's huge areas of countryside, countless brownfield sites and even a good number of urban spaces where people could live provided we, as a country, decided to invest in the building work required.

I wonder how many Fabsters are former construction industry workers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why spoil such beautiful countryside with flats for people that do not contribute to society?

If I went to live in a foreign country would I get a house/benefits/school for my kids....I think not.

The UK is a joke.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Not all countryside is beautiful and not all homeless people do not contribute to society.

Depending on which country you went to, you might very well get accomodation, benefits and schooling.

There's a false belief that all immigrants in GHA housing developments are GHA tenants. Many properties were bought under right to buy legislation and are being re-let by private owners.

A lot of people regard the UK as a joke yet few seem inclined to leave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why should I leave...iv and all my family pay taxes...

And. All countryside is beautiful...it's been there for thousands of yrs.

The benefit system is a joke give to those who can't be arse but god forbid a man who has worked all his days of 50yrs and he will get a sub he has to pay back at £5 a week.

Myself andy husband both work to pay for our kids future...we could easily sit on our arses and get our house and food paid for...but what message does that send our kids?

Ask any unemployed youngster there's a job in mcds...he would tell you to shove it.

My single mum sister went out to work fulltime and all she was better off was

£12 a week...she could have and prob would have been better off sitting on benefits..but choose not to .to show her kids you have to WORK. To get what you need.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Anyone who thinks all countryside is beautiful hasn't driven along the M8 recently.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most days....

So you would happily stay right beside a motorway..

Try developing all the empty buildings 1st before ripping the country apart.

Just a thought like x

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

"Anyone who thinks all countryside is beautiful hasn't driven along the M8 recently."

Take it you are atlking about what is built or has been dumped on it and not the countryside itself.

Once you have covered all the countryside with houses where will we get our food, milk etc? as there will be no fields to grow our own once we take everyone from the rest of the world that wants to come here.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Most days....

So you would happily stay right beside a motorway..

Try developing all the empty buildings 1st before ripping the country apart.

Just a thought like x"

That what I said (above)

"It doesn't have to be Glencoe. There's huge areas of countryside, countless brownfield sites and even a good number of urban spaces where people could live provided we, as a country, decided to invest in the building work required.

........."

There's lots of space we COULD build. We just have to decide to do it.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Anyone who thinks all countryside is beautiful hasn't driven along the M8 recently.

Take it you are atlking about what is built or has been dumped on it and not the countryside itself.

I'm tempted to say Tesco's in response to the 'where will we get our food, milk' question but actually, there's loads of non-productive land which could be used.

A major party of the problem is people who don't want the bit of ground next to them 'spoiled' as they see it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yip that's why I pay my mortgage..

To live next to a homeless unit with folk selling / taking drugs or a family of 33 in a 4 bed house .

I pay my taxes so I can live and bring up my kids in the best environment possible.

Shouldn't we all?

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"The OP may be untrue or pinnochio'd through various social sites but our experience through loosing our business via our landlord was this....

1) we were tennants of an inn and lived in - our home and work!

2) reccession hit - landlord closed us - no home no work!

3) went to council and dss - according to them - gave up work and home as classed as self employed.

4) result - jobless and homeless with children in scotland??

5) went to homeless unit (with children in tow) which was full of jakies!! to be told not entitled to house as percentage are "FOR THE MIGRANTS & SOCIALLY DISPLACED"!!!

we had a holiday home abroad where we had no option but to move to !! but we had to sign an agreement in court there to say we would NOT claim their social security and be allowed to live there !!

this should be adopted here

If you had no home you'd be entitled to accommodation. If your local authority had advised you wrongly then the local Citizens Advice Bureau would've been able to remind them of their legal obligation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"oh and that old chestnut,,,,,i became a junkie because i became homeless and used drink and drugs to block out the cold,,,to help me cope,,,,honk,,,,,hear it all the time,,,,lots of homeless people dont do drugs.....and genuine homeless people like ex soldiers who find it hard to adjust in civi street or marriage broke down due to unemployment struggles also get no help from authorities that is why there are several re-homing schemes available to them,,,,,,,these exist because society does not care about people who put into society but would rather support the people who have and continue to be a strain on society....FACT and not all these people use heroin to block out the pain!!!"

So what about the doctors nurses lawyers high court judges care workers teachers that use heroine regularly they're paying taxes now and at minute their addictions are reasonably u see control they've made choice to dabble the I won't get addicted I'm not addicted I'm only smoking it not injecting it there are far more addicts you do t see living amongst you so what happens the day something goes wrong and they suddenly go over that mark and become a "junkie" are they not entitled to help and support ? They made a wrong choice so did the single mum with four kids that picked a guy she thought was going to always be there and support her they made choice to bring kids up together but he fucked off and left her !!! Lets not judge people when you've never walked in their shoes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have no feelings for drug users whatsoever...

They CHOSE to use whatever shit they use...if they end up on the,street or dead.....no one else to blame but themselves.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

The single mum made her choice but if she chose someone who eventualy fucked off then that is outwith her control.

The doctors etc who choose to use drugs are doing so knowing exactly where it could lead, there are a few ppl living near me that I have never known to work but always get drug money somehow one even came to my door trying to sell my son a playstation and dvd player I told him to fuck off and never to come near again as I know exactly what he did to get them dont ask me for sympathy for these lowlifes that would cut you throat to get money for a fix

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

picking a wrong partner is slightly different from picking up drugs,,,what a dreadful comparison!!! drugs are a lifestyle choice, and if these people who control there habits then one day get it wrong,,,what sort of statement is that!!!it may be controlled as they are functioning, but what do you know of the social implications it is having on there families, friends and careers. just because they are not unemployed and living on the streets does not mean they are not causing pain and suffering elsewhere!!!!

would you like a nice heroin user teaching your kids, or that nice surgeon who has just chased the dragon before your loved ones heart surgery,,," oh there nice people because they pay taxes and dont sponge!!!!

no matter how you butter it up,,,,a heroin user, junkie whatever you class them, they are causing pain and suffering somewhere!!!

and as far as help and support, yes they can have it, we give out all kinds of free shit!!! but the thing we do to combat heroin is to substitute it with opiat based "legal drugs" such as methadone,,,a 30 yr old programme that has no proof of success,,,infact over half of drug deaths in the uk are also linked to methadone users!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 04/11/12 16:22:54]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no matter how you butter it up,,,,a heroin user, junkie whatever you class them, they are causing pain and suffering somewhere!!!

Methadone has no proof of success? Define success?

I would suggest you research the work of Dr Brian Kidd, an expert in opiate addiction for information about this. Methadone may be a substitute for heroin and there "just switching the problem", but as far as "harm reduction" measures go its got to be up there with needle exchanges for effectiveness. Its easy to slate methadone, but without it we would have far more OD's of users particularly when trying to come off heroin. Drug addiction is an extremely complex problem to treat requiring medical and psychological interventions to prevent relapses, as well as social interventions. It's easy for people to make comments when ill informed of the facts.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

You can probably dig up experts on boths sides of the 'does methadone work?' debate.

Today's Politics Scotland on BBC was interesting, not least for the fact that one of the experts interviewed was called Rowdy Yates.

It'll be on iplayer.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Methadone was intended to be a short term solution around a year but some have been on it from day one and use it as a freebie along with the bought variety its totaly free to them and always has been even when folk had to buy lifesaving drugs due to illnesses that they had no hand in.

How the drug companies love it as the methadone programme in Scotland alone is over 2 million pounds.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no matter how you butter it up,,,,a heroin user, junkie whatever you class them, they are causing pain and suffering somewhere!!!

Methadone has no proof of success? Define success?

im not ill informed,,just as much as not overly clued up on it,,,,,because i dont care, i dont offer sympathy for the likes!!! as far as im concerned its all self inflicted!!! and what i meant by success was as in its role to get people to be drug free as what the authorities were hoping for!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Methadone was intended to be a short term solution around a year but some have been on it from day one and use it as a freebie along with the bought variety its totaly free to them and always has been even when folk had to buy lifesaving drugs due to illnesses that they had no hand in.

How the drug companies love it as the methadone programme in Scotland alone is over 2 million pounds."

yeah, they reduce the dose given, well id like to know what doses people were on in 1990 that are still on it now!! still getting several hundred mils now!!! waste of money why should the nhs feed them and hold back on medications that help with the the life expectancy of a cancer or alzheimer sufferer??.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Does your lack of sympathy extend to those who have lung cancer through smoking or cirrhosis through excessive drinking?

What about sports people with broken bones?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

nah,,,no smoker or drinker robbed my house or murdered my family for 20 fags and a bottle of bud!!!

poor comparison.

not one person can compare a smoker or drinker to that of a junkie, different league.

id sit with the average smoker and drinker but would not mix with junk heads!!! would you???

whats with the sports player and their broken bones?????

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

"Does your lack of sympathy extend to those who have lung cancer through smoking or cirrhosis through excessive drinking?

What about sports people with broken bones?"

Oh I didnt know they were given free fags and booze on the NHS oh well as they say you learn something everyday.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does your lack of sympathy extend to those who have lung cancer through smoking or cirrhosis through excessive drinking?

What about sports people with broken bones?

Oh I didnt know they were given free fags and booze on the NHS oh well as they say you learn something everyday."

might try for a script for a 200 carton and a few boxes of corona then take a few weeks off and bury my head in a smokey cloud!!!lol

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Does your lack of sympathy extend to those who have lung cancer through smoking or cirrhosis through excessive drinking?

What about sports people with broken bones?"

"nah,,,no smoker or drinker robbed my house or murdered my family for 20 fags and a bottle of bud!!!

poor comparison.

not one person can compare a smoker or drinker to that of a junkie, different league.

id sit with the average smoker and drinker but would not mix with junk heads!!! would you???

whats with the sports player and their broken bones?????"

Lung cancer, cirrhosis and broken bones through sport are self-inflicted injuries.

Should sufferers be denied treatment?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Does your lack of sympathy extend to those who have lung cancer through smoking or cirrhosis through excessive drinking?

What about sports people with broken bones?

Oh I didnt know they were given free fags and booze on the NHS oh well as they say you learn something everyday."

The posts and replies have gotten out of sequence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does your lack of sympathy extend to those who have lung cancer through smoking or cirrhosis through excessive drinking?

What about sports people with broken bones?

nah,,,no smoker or drinker robbed my house or murdered my family for 20 fags and a bottle of bud!!!

poor comparison.

not one person can compare a smoker or drinker to that of a junkie, different league.

id sit with the average smoker and drinker but would not mix with junk heads!!! would you???

whats with the sports player and their broken bones?????

Lung cancer, cirrhosis and broken bones through sport are self-inflicted injuries.

Should sufferers be denied treatment?"

id say no to sport as peple playing are probably of good sorts and contributed to the nhs,,,,and as for smokers and drinkers,,,not everyone gets ill,,,,so they shold get treated as the tax and duty they are robbed of goes to the free nhs we have!! and this is a debate where everyone sees different,,,,i have no problem with people,,im a real nice person but i hate junkies,,,,despise them,,,would not help one because all the ones i know are twats, no excuse for it they are what they are due to the choices they make,,,so why should i feel sympathy for them,,,if you are ever a victim of a true crime from one of them maybe you would feel the same!!!! scum

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no matter how you butter it up,,,,a heroin user, junkie whatever you class them, they are causing pain and suffering somewhere!!!

Methadone has no proof of success? Define success?

It takes more than just methadone to stop someone using heroin.

If you look at the psychological side of things, a lot of work needs invested such as avoidance of the triggers leading to use, identifying the factors contributing to its use and maintaining its ongoing use. That can be easier said than done for some people if everyone they know uses and getting hassled etc by dealers who want them to keep using, putting " freebies" through their door etc.

Anyway I though this was a swinging site, not for people to do some kind of state of the nation,ill informed rant that seems to be so in vogue these days.....

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By *rystalsdragonCouple
over a year ago

central for fun / axarquia

ohhh _nny man you have cheered me up !! you are obviously a sassanch builder with your comments either that of youve not seen outside govan !! ( i appologise now to anyone from govan) as you are so blinkered to the outside world !!

glen coe ? in previous posts ?? are you so blinkered that JS had a home there??

going on about all the space in scotland to build ... we like to try to retain what was robbed in the clearances and the torys in the 80s with our oil ??

junkies and jakeies are the same if you knew scots lingo - obviously not !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What triggers heroin use, well id say a combination of factors, such as, weak people, diluded as it wont happen to me attitude! And complete twats!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To go back to the OP, This is exactly the sort of right wing nonsense that gets paraded out on Facebook and here by The EDL, BNP, UKIP and all the other growing right wing movements. They do what all these fear mongers do, tell you why you have a shit life and then tell you who to blame for it. And its usually other countries and Immigrants.

Yes we had a great influx of immigrants,the vast majority of whom were hardworking and willing to do the shit jobs that would usually have been done part time by our teenagers and students in the main. But due to the constant bombardment of aspirational Tv and magazines every young person thought such jobs beneath them and imagined they were going to be a pop star, WAG or millionaire businessman by the time they were 18. Or walk straight out of University with a 2:3 in media studies and become director of the BBC. And the young/single families who were worse off if they went to work were also the problem. Yes they may have been worse off, but they never learned that money has more value when you've earned it. When you know what you did to get it. So they'll pass these values onto their kids no doubt and the cycle will start again.

The truth is that people who whinge hardest about the state of the country are usually those that either don't vote and therefore can shut the fuck up as they had their chance to change stuff, or voted Lab/Con and therefore can shut the fuck up as they voted for the only 2 parties that have been in power and created the mess.

I'll concede that a few may have been disillusioned with the mainstream and voted for one of the new right parties, but does anyone want a party in power again that demonises minorities and blames them for all the ills in the country? Germany had that in the 30's and look how that turned out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The OP may be untrue or pinnochio'd through various social sites but our experience through loosing our business via our landlord was this....

1) we were tennants of an inn and lived in - our home and work!

2) reccession hit - landlord closed us - no home no work!

3) went to council and dss - according to them - gave up work and home as classed as self employed.

4) result - jobless and homeless with children in scotland??

5) went to homeless unit (with children in tow) which was full of jakies!! to be told not entitled to house as percentage are "FOR THE MIGRANTS & SOCIALLY DISPLACED"!!!

we had a holiday home abroad where we had no option but to move to !! but we had to sign an agreement in court there to say we would NOT claim their social security and be allowed to live there !!

this should be adopted here

Second home abroad?! Thought we had stopped having "the Empire" back in the 50s! Who do you think you are, bloody Clive of India?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

guys, chill.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"guys, chill."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whos clive? Is he a fab user?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whos clive? Is he a fab user?"

Clives as familiar to you as the illness of addiction, Dr Disney? Proffessor Disney? None of those titles really apply do they,lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

your wit is outstanding,,,,i never at any point declared myself any of the above,,,just my opinion which i am allowed to express!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

illness,,,,self inflicted in my opinion!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"illness,,,,self inflicted in my opinion!"

Second-homeitis......it's all their own doing

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"........

junkies and jakeies are the same if you knew scots lingo - obviously not !! "

Junkies and jakies are NOT the same thing. Junkies have drug problems. Jakies have alcohol problems.

I'm not familiar with Govan or anywhere south of the Clyde- the river is there for a reason (thankfully), indeed I get queasy on the 62 from Glasgow Cross to Partick at the moment as it takes a detour to Kingston

St to avoid road works in Jamaica Street.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How the drug companies love it as the methadone programme in Scotland alone is over 2 million pounds."

Methadone is meant to reduce harm and stop people who are coming off heroin from killing themselves by taking their usual amount of heroin if they relapse. Methadone increases their tolerance of opiates and reduced the buzz from heroin.

The biggest problem for any substance misuser is trying to come off a drug when they aren't ready to do so. Thats where psychologists and other health professionals come. By using techniques such as motivational interviewing, CBT amongst others, it helps prepare the person to become abstinent and gives them tools to stay abstinent.

For the majority of substance misusers, what might start of with social use might progress to dependence. The majority of drug users at the severe end tend to use in order to try to make themselves better from another co-morbid psychiatric diagnosis.

I notice the vast majority of people on this site support our troops. What if one of our soldiers went to war for us, experienced traumas none of us can imagine, finish their duty traumatised by it, return home and unable to cope leave the military. Jobs aren't exactly 10 a penny these days, and they can't tell anyone about how they feel. So they try to make themselves feel better by turning to substances.

Some of you lot would say it's "their own fault". Or the victim of childhood sexual abuse. Or the victim of domestic violence. I could go on.

Just goes to show that some people on here need to think before they start spouting nonsense about substance misusers, I'm not exactly thrilled by them myself but you can't just blindly blame them all and say its their own fault......

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

I personally dont know any ex squaddies who use but I do know loads of wasters that have never had a job and are a drain financialy on the country I dont/wont use as I know what could happen and if I did then tough on me.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I know a few ex-matelots who've taken to or heroin. It almost seems to have been an inevitable progression when the bevvy didn't cut it any more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

got bored , its friday and I'm not shagging.

I think alot posting here dont know what the difference is between choice and addiction.

I grew up in a 'hard' scheme, seen people rise and fall...some managed to better themselves, some didnt and some are dead.

Some people lack the classical maslow(google if u dont know) model of thinking ..its a flawed piece of work like many, but check the basic theory out.

I have worked with drug addicts in my later life, some nice people, some not so nice..but would I blame every single one who got addicted as self inflicted?..I certainly would not.

As said above, there are many addicts of many forms, some can hide their addiction very well...and some just cant...and sometimes that is based upon what the addiction source is.(an example is gambling)-its now commonplace for those providing gambling services to be aware of addictive gambling.This obviously wont happen with illegal drugs..as it isnt regulated.

to understand addiction, I'd say do some homework before actually passing judgement...try getting pro and con views and not kneejerk reactionary comments.

As for the OP...I think that came out quite a while ago,its attracted all sorts and will continue to do so, but like I've said above...go do some homework before posting gumph that u just happened to read in a copy n paste message thats mainly been used by the extreme organizations in the UK-I doubt uve looked if theres documented government proof of this letter...or are they just hiding it.............ooooer..conspiracies..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Been reading this forum it's hard to tell what side of the line everyone's on so just gonna come out and say it.

ANY BNP MEMBER WANT A SHAG?

always wanted to fuck a bigots brain out ----literally.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

all addicts started off using what it is they are addicted too,,,so to use of ones free will, to me that means self inflicted. a choice they made! im not addicted to drink or drugs.

sick to death of people blaming society for the mess they are in. i worked with addicts when i was in my mid twenties, i have basic understandings of it! its my opinion as stated before, it may not be the opinion of all here.

the point is for me, that i cant believe site users jumping on someone for having a second home, and not wanting their kids in the same place as junkies or jakeys!!!! seems they got it rough due to wanting a better life and for wanting to avoid people such as junkies!!!this post is boring now!!!! i do not like junkies i have great reasons for not. to me they are the scum of our society.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

"all addicts started off using what it is they are addicted too,,,so to use of ones free will, to me that means self inflicted. a choice they made! im not addicted to drink or drugs.

I second that although I realy do think they deserved the payout some of them got for being deprived of their drugs while in prison I mean after all it realy was an abuse of their human rights.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

" ..........

the point is for me, that i cant believe site users jumping on someone for having a second home, ........"

I have no criticism of anyone for wanting a second, third, fourth or however many homes when supply outstrips demand.

What I find difficult is anyone keeping a second home and condemning the hugely overstretched public housing system for being unable to provide them with what they deem to be an acceptable first home.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"all addicts started off using what it is they are addicted too,,,so to use of ones free will, to me that means self inflicted. a choice they made! im not addicted to drink or drugs.

I second that although I realy do think they deserved the payout some of them got for being deprived of their drugs while in prison I mean after all it realy was an abuse of their human rights.

shame for the wee souls, and what help does a person thats faught for their country, never been unemployed for one day of their life whos contributed to the awful tax system??? yep, nothing, but i have to stump up weekly for this low life!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ..........

the point is for me, that i cant believe site users jumping on someone for having a second home, ........

I have no criticism of anyone for wanting a second, third, fourth or however many homes when supply outstrips demand.

keeping a second home!!! they did have a second home when things where good, but then situations changed,,,as i said before....no one knows the facts, perhaps they did try to sell, but couldnt. perhaps they tried renting, but had no money for deposit,,,perhaps they had no other help or options. as i said before, the second home seems to have stirred a lot of unwarranted comments and as far as not accepting worthy housing,,,,would you like to move from a nice happy stable clean environment into a place of despair and crime being openly commited!!!! would your family love a place in that area?????

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

As I pointed oout on the thread, I'd have ensured I had sufficient rainy day money to cover the possibility of my accomodation being taken away (for whatever reason) before 'investing' in a second home.

That's what taking responsibity for yourself and your family is all about.

Anyone in a tied house has to be aware it can be gone in no time at all.

As you say 'the situation changed'. That isn't/wasn't the fault of the social housing system and to expect to get to pick and choose which home is acceptable is living in fantasy land.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"all addicts started off using what it is they are addicted too,,,so to use of ones free will, to me that means self inflicted. a choice they made! im not addicted to drink or drugs.

post was boring to begin with lol...

anyway...again, having worked with addiction workers who HAD previous addictions...I'll just challenge u on the basic fact, U dont know what an addiction is, neither do I...but u cant seem to see there is an individual story to a good few cases...just like the asylum,immigration issues...

what we dont need is spouted pish from rightwing organizations, with actual no clear intent on how to run the country other than the 'get them out' mentality.

and if we are talking about unemployed,long term unemployed...people shouldnt really sit on their high horses professing such greatness..in 50 years time there wont be such a need for manual work..whether its right or wrong, progress in machinery developments approach, computer systems getting more advanced.

I'm not saying its time for terminator stuff, I'm just saying the rapid digital evolution, is earmarking this century...faster than ANYONE ever predicted...and thats a fact.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honk toot toot! Coming through the back door! Did ye? Aye!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Honk toot toot! Coming through the back door! Did ye? Aye!"

Next some of you ignorant ones will be saying no new members of this site. unless you are fine upstanding pillars of society.

And white.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Honk toot toot! Coming through the back door! Did ye? Aye!

Next some of you ignorant ones will be saying no new members of this site. unless you are fine upstanding pillars of society.

And white.

and how did you manage to come up with that thought from my previous comment?

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