FabSwingers.com forum: Death penalty

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

After the sad events of today and other days through out the year, do you feel the death penalty maybe more of a deterrent?

Or would these lunatics still kill innocent people?

So sad, you shouldnt go to work and not come home.

Also the guy has given himself up, at what cost will it be to house him for the rest of his natural life in prison?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

considering death row in america is full dont think it would be any different here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Id bring back the death penalty but I doubt it would be much of a deterrent. If folk considered the consequences before they committed any crime then they wouldnt happen.

I also dont believe that the murder of a police officer should be seen as more serious than that of a civilian

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Difficult one this.

With the death penalty there are always going to be mistakes made (e.g.Derek Bentley)and innocent will be people executed.

For that reason alone I (Mr.) can't agree with bringing it back.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Difficult one this.

With the death penalty there are always going to be mistakes made (e.g.Derek Bentley)and innocent will be people executed.

For that reason alone I (Mr.) can't agree with bringing it back."

Thats a fair point but if our system was anything like Americas then folk would be on Death Row for years so in all likelihood any miscarriage of justive would surely come to light long before an execution. Youd hope that advances in DNA for example that that would limit the chances of a wrongful sentence

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The bloke handed himself in, i am guessing he did it, if not then obviously he should be released but if its a stone cold definite then a quick hanging or chemical death should happen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The bloke handed himself in, i am guessing he did it, if not then obviously he should be released but if its a stone cold definite then a quick hanging or chemical death should happen."

Stone cold definite can become very grey over time and the rules will always be changed.

With the death penalty you are always going to get mistakes made.

We've done this arguement to death (excuse the pun) at work and we always end up at the "what if it was one of your family who got murdered/executed wrongly" brick wall.

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By *olly Gentle GiantMan
over a year ago

Glenrothes

Agree that its difficult one. Can we be sure that all involved with the criminal justice system - the investigating authorities and the prosecuting authorities and witnesses - will at all times act with honesty and integrity in the interests of justice. Sadly history will show miscarriages with convictions being quashed. Is it a deterrent? I have my doubts - after all to convict of murder the prosecution have to prove pre-meditation. In other words murder is not an impulsive crime - it is planned. So if you plan to kill someone whether you get life or are hanged is I would think of little consequence to a murderer.

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By *mumaWoman
over a year ago

Livingston

"The bloke handed himself in, i am guessing he did it, if not then obviously he should be released but if its a stone cold definite then a quick hanging or chemical death should happen."

he was already wanted for 2 previous murders

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My cousin is a police officer and i think they should be armed . To many are getting attacked . Yes and bring back the death penalty and the birch . A life for a life ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My cousin is a police officer and i think they should be armed . To many are getting attacked . Yes and bring back the death penalty and the birch . A life for a life .."

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

"So sad, you shouldnt go to work and not come home."

That being the case all those guilty of corporate manslaughter should be put to death ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unsure of death penalty, equally unsure of all police being armed, you see them in Airports with guns and all it does is scare me, the prospect of them ever having to use them in a busy airport.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Heart says yes there should be the death penalty, head says not so sure. Would have to proven over and beyond any doubt, and as has been stated above,there have been some awful miscarriages of justice. Difficult one, the debate could go on forever.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the death penalty is nothing less than what murderers deserve, but there is no place for it in a civilised society.

it wouldnt matter how many thousand or million or trillion murderers got what was coming to them, only one mistake would overshadow all the good it might do.

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By *unybunyWoman
over a year ago

Living in a Scottish office somewhere

I'm sorry but where there are REPEAT offenders, the ones who have been let out to do the henious crimes yet again eg the serial killers, the serial paedophiles I would not hesitate in zapping them on their rights to live. When decent folk slog away to pay bills, keep homes, clothe and send their kids to school why should we pay to keep them alive segregated in their own little life of luxuries handing them payouts because they bleet on about not having the rights for this that and the next thing, taking their appeals to the European Convention courts makes me sick. What rights did they give the people they murdered. Sorry these scumbags should be eradicated from existence. Sorry, just my opinion, but when you know someone whose life was cut very short by someone as above it makes you feel this way. Rant over!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My cousin is a police officer and i think they should be armed . To many are getting attacked . Yes and bring back the death penalty and the birch . A life for a life ..

Unfortunately due to the likes of those involved at hillsborough all those years ago and more recently the 1 sacked for pushing the guy in London I find the idea of them all having guns pretty terrifying"
totally agree...as in every job you get Good and bad...i dont want a Bad 1 having a gun

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As for the death penalty

You only have to mention the names

Brady

West

Tobin

Breivik

Says it all

Auds

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By *f3_ladyWoman
over a year ago

Cardiff

Give him to the Met for a few hours. They have plenty of experience of killing people, innocent or otherwise!

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By *ikerbob1957Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

He only handed himself in as he knew the firearms squad would be out for him and his chances of seeing another Xmas was remote.

He'll never see daylight again and will cost the country millions to keep him warm, well fed and comfortable for the rest of his miserable life.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

but on the flip side you can name

carlos deluna

ruben cantu

larry griffen

joseph o dell

and many more that evidence now points to there innocence a very tricky subject that would need very clear definitions if it was to be reintroduced

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Crucifixion or hanging as a deterrant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe if prison was no longer an easy option due to human rights etc... Maybe if going to prison was hard, no tv, no privileges etc then prison would be a deterrent and be cheaper to house prisoners.

More money is spent on food for prisoners than on hospital patients.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

in law,there are no degrees of guilt.

if more people have guns,more people will be shot.

nobody said it would be easy.xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 19/09/12 00:53:02]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But the life sentence is hardly a punishment.... 15 years, or so, out in 10, in a jail with a gym, telly, getting a degree, earning money...Life sentence should be life, with a bed and a pot to pee in. No human rights pish, you lose them when you kill someone. After all you took someone else's human rights, their right to live.

Kill someone with no doubt that it was you, then bye bye, game over, deeeeed! Death by whatever means necessary.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Agree with Lady ice..

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Give him to the Met for a few hours. They have plenty of experience of killing people, innocent or otherwise!

Not really sure what she meant by that.. but i dont agree with her at all cf from wales..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

G do you not remember the table leg, mistaken for a shotgun a good few years ago.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Harry, the guy today didnt have a table leg bud, he had a gun and a grenade! i am not into armed police, i am into the death penalty for people who with out a shadow of doubt have killed people for fun. Brady is still alive and really shouldnt be... they are scum in my opinion. If proven without doubt.. without doubt, kill them!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Statistics show that the vast majority of murders are crimes of passion (premeditation can be considered proven by, for example, picking up a knife) and therefore the death sentence is no deterrent.

As for arming the police, surveys undertaken by various forces indicate that 85% of serving police officers think it would be a bad idea.

The public probably think of the likes of Jean Charles de Menezes, held down and repeatedly shot in the face because they couldn't tell him apart from their actual suspect and decide they don't want them all having guns.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

looked back at my post. No mention of arming police, was talking about death penalty. Yes people have made mistakes hence once again i say it has to be totally that the officials are certain. Is Bradys or fred wests still unsure?

Did the guy today who killed the young wps after being trialed expect us to forgive him and let him out after 20 years?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Isn't it an indication of a mature, developed society that we are capable of forgiveness and assuming that our penal system is capable of reforming a criminal? Don't we want to be better than the criminals?

Actually, I don't think our present system is fit for purpose, but that's another debate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Brady etc were never "captured on cctv", maybe if it was through this modern type of evidence, where it is 100% proven they are guilty, then yes, death penalty.

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By *cottybhoyMan
over a year ago

falkirk

"Brady etc were never "captured on cctv", maybe if it was through this modern type of evidence, where it is 100% proven they are guilty, then yes, death penalty."

No such thing as 100% proven. Best we have in criminal prosecutions is beyond reasonable doubt.

Even then we fuck up constantly using a jury system that has been ridiculed throughout the world with verdict's like the clown acquitted of assaulting Neil Lennon (after admitting it) and all the miscarriages of justice with confessions beaten out of people.

Knee jerk reaction is always let's kill the killers - but does that make us any better than them? State planned and executed murder is unacceptable in a modern society.

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By *andsCouple
over a year ago

Edin

"Harry, the guy today didnt have a table leg bud, he had a gun and a grenade! i am not into armed police, i am into the death penalty for people who with out a shadow of doubt have killed people for fun. Brady is still alive and really shouldnt be... they are scum in my opinion. If proven without doubt.. without doubt, kill them!! "

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By *andsCouple
over a year ago

Edin

"But the life sentence is hardly a punishment.... 15 years, or so, out in 10, in a jail with a gym, telly, getting a degree, earning money...Life sentence should be life, with a bed and a pot to pee in. No human rights pish, you lose them when you kill someone. After all you took someone else's human rights, their right to live.

Kill someone with no doubt that it was you, then bye bye, game over, deeeeed! Death by whatever means necessary."

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By *eatherWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

im for hanging as on friday im giong to put flowers on my nephews grave .The 24th year i have done this he was17 when he was stabbed to death BUT and heres a big BUT the guy whodid this a 61yr old though t it was his brother and not Ross who was coming towards him and ross,s brother carried a knife.So should he have been hanged /Oh by the way he only served 6yrs of a 12yr sentence

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By *eatherWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

But for the likes of tobin Brady west and other scum bags I would say Hang them

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"Id bring back the death penalty but I doubt it would be much of a deterrent. If folk considered the consequences before they committed any crime then they wouldnt happen.

I also dont believe that the murder of a police officer should be seen as more serious than that of a civilian"

Don't think the original poster said that it was more 'serious' but it is different. We expect the police to rush to our aid, often in the most exceptional and dangerous of circumstances. You have to protect those who you expect to protect you. Death Penalty? No, but absolutely stay in prison until you die.

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

"Give him to the Met for a few hours. They have plenty of experience of killing people, innocent or otherwise!"

That's hijacking the thread to make your own cheap point. But yes, give him to the MET

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By *exyLancs2Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

[Removed by poster at 19/09/12 14:11:44]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

any murder is shocking and sad

but as much as i feel for the policewoman that got shot and their families

it shouldnt be delt with any different than a wee woman getn knocked down and killed in the road by a un insured boy racer/d*unk???

murder is murder,,no matter who or what

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Id bring back the death penalty but I doubt it would be much of a deterrent. If folk considered the consequences before they committed any crime then they wouldnt happen.

I also dont believe that the murder of a police officer should be seen as more serious than that of a civilian

I expect firemen, paramedics, nurses, doctors, The AA man etc etc to rush to my aid if I need them. Why should anyone murdering them be granted parole but not those killing a police officer?

At the end of the day it doesnt matter what job anyone does we are all human beings and all deserve to be treated equally regardless of creed, colour, job, social standing etc etc

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By *damandeve4funCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Difficult one this.

With the death penalty there are always going to be mistakes made (e.g.Derek Bentley)and innocent will be people executed.

For that reason alone I (Mr.) can't agree with bringing it back."

Totally agree. There are many cases where the justice system thought it had an open and shut case, jailed someone and, years later, found they had got the wrong man/woman. Even confessions are no guarantees.

Even if you ignore that argument, the over-riding one is that a society gives out the wrong signal by killing its own citizens for whatever reason. A society that deliberately kills, whether it be human or animal, breeds killers in society because it is then open to everyone to attempt to justify that killing in some way.

A society that bases its justice system on revenge, breeds a vengeful society. A compassionate society breeds compassion.

You only have to look at the dignified way Norway has dealt with the tragedy of a mass murder on its soil and compare that to the way the United States reacts. The USA is a warning to all who want a knee-jerk reaction and a return to the death penalty, arming all police, the throw them in a cell and free rein to the throw away the key mob. The death penalty and police armed to the teeth has only bred more guns, more crime, more death.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

in law,there are no degrees of guilt.

even taking into

account,brady,tobin,west,etc etc.

if one innocent person was executed,the death penalty could not be justified.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Section 13 of European Human Rights.... no death penalty.

And was written by Sir David Maxwell Fyfe. Whom as home secretary did not commute Derek Bently's sentice to life... slightly ironic.

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By *ussman1Man
over a year ago

Paisley

Without doubt he handed himself because he was afraid of facing armed officers. In other

Words a coward

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've seen this debate so many times now and it's my absolute fave. I love the people who come on and say something like "why should my hard earned tax go on keeping them alive in prison for the rest of their lives where they've got playstation/hot and cold running jacuzzis/5 course banquets every night" etc etc. All stuff gleaned from that well known bastion of truth, The Daily Mail. Cracks me up every time.

The answer to those points of view of course is that murders are rare, despite what you have been led to believe by the media. The prisons are mainly full of people who did lesser crimes. So if you're arguing from a financial point of view for the death penalty then you'd be better off killing all the petty criminals. Your hard earned taxes could then go on keeping the dirty immigrants out, or paying for more fundamentalist christian schools.

Sorry, almost displayed an opinion and rational argument then. Still, its peoples preference/choice. If you don't like it move on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The British government would always find a way to stop the death penalty. All this human right pish would prevent any real justice. Any person that can take a life doesn't deserve to see out the rest of their own. Oblivious to the devastation it leaves behind I doubt very much bringing in the death penalty would stop murder happening. The us prison system would testify to that. If u add to the fact that nearly every British prison gets more like the Hilton everyday doesn't help matters. Seems they would have more of a life behind bars than the cost of living outside.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I get what your saying Jodie but, the bloke who killed the wpcs is about 34 i think. Average life span 76 years so 42 years times £1200 a week to keep him and feed the fucker comes to ...£2,620800

Yup 2 and a half million, someone tell me what purpose would this serve?

Beats me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When you watch the telly Programmes about inside jails makes my blood boil.

Flat screen tvs...sky...xboxs.wtf???

The majority of folk in there wouldnt have that on the outside.

And this is ment to be punishment???

I think Not

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have any of you actually been in prison? Or know anyone who has, who has said they'd happily go back in? Or are these stories of xbox and tellys all Daily Mail stuff?

If so please feel free to enlighten me about what a holiday camp it really is. As by all accounts I've heard they are still shit brutal places compared to say, being free to go wherever you choose whenever you choose.

And yes you might save a few million quid by knocking off a murderer, but you missed my point that you'd save more money by killing all the people who were convicted of lesser things as there are so many more of them. So if saving your hard earned taxes is your goal then that's the way to go.

Still, it's all down to peoples preference/choice. If you don't like what prison you're in then get over it and move on.

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By *urioduoCouple
over a year ago

lanarkshire

The judge at sentencing of the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4 said if the death penalty was available to me then I would have no hesitation in using it .... At the time they were deemed to be the most evil people in the land ..... 20 something years later oh they are innocent ... One wrongly executed person would be one too many... I can see the argument if they are guilty without any doubt but these 10 guys were guilty without a shadow of a doubts at the time

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have any of you actually been in prison? Or know anyone who has, who has said they'd happily go back in? Or are these stories of xbox and tellys all Daily Mail stuff?

oIf so please feel free to enlighten me about what a holiday camp it really is. As by all accounts I've heard they are still shit brutal places compared to say, pobeing free to go wherever you choose whenever you choose.

Still, it's all down to peoples preference/choice. If you don't like what prison you're in then get over it and move on."
Actually...yes o Do know somone and he said it was,a doddle

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have any of you actually been in prison? Or know anyone who has, who has said they'd happily go back in? Or are these stories of xbox and tellys all Daily Mail stuff?

Still, it's all down to peoples preference/choice. If you don't like what prison you're in then get over it and move on."

Eh actually I have. It wasn't the nicest place to be in but it wasn't hard time either. Hardest thing was being away from my family and having my liberty taken away from me.

I can honestly say I can see 1st hand why people reoffend because they've got more in there than they've got out here and they do have xbox, sky and luxuries in there. Would I go back? I wouldn't like to unless it was for harm done to my kids or family but I wouldn't be bothered bout the "punishment " the the system is supposed to be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So you wouldn't really be happy going back for life then? Or even say 10 years? I doubt very much It's a doddle, unless you're already of that frame of mind and used to it. I know teenagers who went to young offenders, one of whom thought he was the big I AM locally, returned from there broken after getting the occasional kicking and told me he's not going back there.

From your comments I would say they could made a bit more horrible but I'm never going to advocate killing people as a deterrent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Curio.

The difference between this scumbag and the Birmingham 6/Guildford 4 etc was that they didn't do it. He did! It was only false, circumstantial evidence which led to them being convicted in the first place.

Just like that other nutter Brevik, this guy did it, was seen doing it and admitted it when he handed himself in!

So no question.

Bring back the death penalty for scum like this. I'd pull the rope if nobody else wants to do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Life isn't life nowadays nor is 10 years 10 years. These people are back amongst society within 2/3 of their sentence. If you think for a second that I'm supporting any1 in prison for their actio s then your completly wrong. I wrote a paragraph saying any1 who took a life doesn't deserve to see out the rest of their own.

I wouldn't go back unless some1 harmed my kids or family and I already stated that. I've never been in trouble up til that point and haven't since so how can u say ur last statement without pre judging???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"considering death row in america is full dont think it would be any different here"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You only have to see the mass over crowding in the prisons to see what Kind of a deterent it is.

Life should mean Life but in the situations of mass murder and child killers..yes bring back the death penalty.

Auds.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Life should mean Life but in the situations of mass murder and child killers..yes bring back the death penalty"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How is killing more than one person or killing a child more terrible than just killing one person and therefore needs the death penalty?

The child argument is always emotive, but why is killing a child more horrible than an adult? Now you're going to say either "they can't defend themselves" or "They've got their whole life in front of them". Well I'll argue that the two coppers who got killed the other day both had their whole lives in front of them and they just opened a door and got shot. No chance to defend themselves.

The death penalty makes us no better than the people who commit murder. Agreed that life should mean life, but we shouldn't be following the whole Eye for an Eye bollocks which is from a book that only a small fraction of the population believe in anymore.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I have been in prisons lots of times, they are not a pleasant place but they are clean,lots of gym available and books, computers xboxes a little money and a fairly safe place to be. 3 square meals a day, no council tax and at the end of a sentence of any length they can work for a company when in open prison and can bank the money to help them return to society.

The question though was... should the death penalty be brought back in for totally banged to right killers,repeat rapists and pedophiles?

To Jody tv saying kill all minor offenders i think he is a bit deluded. you cant kill someone for lying. Otherwise Tommy Sheridon would be put out of MY misery lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It just scares me, that every so often, someone like the guy that shot the 2 wpc's materialises in our society, loads of questions need answering.

We dont seem too shocked at the weapons he had for example.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How is killing more than one person or killing a child more terrible than just killing one person and therefore needs the death penalty?

I stand by an Eye for an eye.

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

"The question though was... should the death penalty be brought back in for totally banged to right killers,repeat rapists and pedophiles?"

What if the person is not responsible for their own acts, surely they should't even be convicted far less executed ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

If your girlfriend or boyfriend wife husband children are raped or killed, would you still be so forgiving Jody?

Fuck me i have been watching muslims killing people this week over a film ffs..So i think we as a nation can be outraged at this weeks happenings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you think I was serious about killing all petty criminals then you totally missed my point. Jeez, why bother.

And lots of people do want the death penalty yes. People who've lost loved ones , you're right.

But if they were to be shown into a room where the murderer was on their knees and they were handed a gun and told to go ahead, how many would actually do it. Not very many I'll bet. Grief and anger fade over time.

What you're saying is that you want the death penalty brought back, as long as someone else has to actually do it. Otherwise you're of the belief that you could happily deprive someone of their life (albeit a life in prison) and how does that make you any different from them?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

It makes me different because i didnt kill someone in cold blood, i got rid of scum from our society. Big difference jeez

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I feel a Charles Bronson film coming on lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, you'll have committed a premeditated murder. One that you've thought about and decided that the person doesn't matter.

That's what people get convicted of murder for. Do you really not see the distinction?

The treatment of our prisoners is a reflection of how we are as a society. Yes keep them in prison til they die, but we cannot kill them.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You have summed it up totally . That person, DOESNT MATTER , thats my opinion, you cant wander around killing people other wise we would all be doing it in the queue at Tescos for not going fast enough.

They lost there rights to live when the killed raped and pileaged our loved ones!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Without doubt he handed himself because he was afraid of facing armed officers. In other

Words a coward

It'll be interesting to find out why he handed himself in when it was clear Manchester Police were incapable of finding him having been hunting him for over a month.

What you can be sure of, though, is that he would not have surrendered had he been facing a death penalty. He would have had nothing to lose in fighting on and more officers and/or bystanders would have been endangered.

One more thought. You bring back the death penalty you are asking someone to become the coldest and most premeditated of killers. A terrible burden to place upon anyone.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The days of hung draw and quater have gone. It can all be done electronicaly, death by computer.. i am sure there is an app for that on my Iphone.

You cant just let these people kill lots of people and sit for the next 50 years gloating about it, surely?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Brady and Breivik both +want+ to be executed. Brady because he is suffering in prison. His acts were committed partly because he's a control-freak. Now he has no control over anything and he hates it. It's the worst torture we can inflict upon him. Do you want to end his suffering quickly and humanely?

As for the 'difference' in evidence quality between the Guildford 4 and the likes of Breivik, yes the evidence against the latter is infinitely more concrete. The Guildford 4 et al would all still be dead, though.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Brady should have been killed 35 years ago.He still hasnt given the info of the last body not found. As i say its the ones that are totally without doubt guilty. I mentioned earlier 2.6 million quid the bloke who killed the wpcs , thats the cost. Just times that by 10 or 20 other killer.. big saving eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Brady should have been killed 35 years ago.He still hasnt given the info of the last body not found. As i say its the ones that are totally without doubt guilty. I mentioned earlier 2.6 million quid the bloke who killed the wpcs , thats the cost. Just times that by 10 or 20 other killer.. big saving eh?"

And as I've said twice, if the argument for the death penalty was about saving money then you'd be killing every criminal as soon as convicted and we wouldn't bother with prisons. That'd be a huge saving eh?

And glad to see you're happy for a computer to do the killing. As I said, the people who are for it never want to do it themselves.

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

"The question though was... should the death penalty be brought back in for totally banged to right killers,repeat rapists and pedophiles?

What if the person is not responsible for their own acts, surely they should't even be convicted far less executed ?"

No rush OP ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If your girlfriend or boyfriend wife husband children are raped or killed, would you still be so forgiving Jody?"

If your girlfriend or boyfriend wife husband children are killed by the state for a crime they didn't commit, would you still be in favour of the death penalty?

Mistakes are always made and until the day they can eradicate that (which will be never) then I will oppose the death penalty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I stand by an Eye for an eye."

All well and good until they get someone with the wrong eye.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As for the 'difference' in evidence quality between the Guildford 4 and the likes of Breivik, yes the evidence against the latter is infinitely more concrete. The Guildford 4 et al would all still be dead, though."

They would indeed. Exactly my point.

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By *ex n MusicCouple
over a year ago

Perth

i agree with the knotty's....im sorry but i don't think it right any person should take a life....just because someone does,it doesn't make it right to do it even in retaliation and defiantly not in the name of the law....

jamie n brenda....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nobody for 1 minute is saying kill All prisoners.

The murderers that kill and kill again without any remorse..ie..Brady Tobin black..these guys would all still be out killing in cold blood if they Never got caught and Not 1 of these Men Showed any remorse.

Yes some Prisoners Do get reabilitated...but some folk in this would are just Plain evil.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"but some folk in this world are just Plain evil."

That's never been in dispute.

It's the ones they say are evil, execute, then find out later they got the wrong person that I'm more worried about.

There will never be a foolproof system and mistakes will always be made.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Il go back to the names...

Tobin....black.....Brady...West....brevikk....

All guilty without a doubt...

Hell brevikk even said he wished he had Killed more...does that man Honestly deserve a flat screen tv.gym and 3 meals a Day??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nope, he doesn't.

I don't agree with the soft prison approach either. They should have bare minimum to live. Loss of all rights when they are inside for murder.

Still can't execute until the system is foolproof/lie proof.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

how about giving murderers and other serious crimes an injection that that paralyzes them,being being unable to talk and move and relying on others I think would be pretty much a horrible punishment.Removing any adaptability,social ability for set amounts of time may make them learn about being helpless and gain some empathy.

Prison for alot of these types of offenders never seems like punishment when it involves them remaining as socially interactive creatures, as they just end up being who's the hardest when they enter that environment.Remove the self worth they believe they have and I think u have a key into teaching them what we will accept in society.

For serial killers,mass murderers-(those deemed to have no mental illness (I term the mental illness as treatable mental illness, ie a period of out of their control behavior such as heavy schizophrenic episodes), should be studied psychologically and biologically.With their eventual planned demise, I see no point in wasting research into diseases/disorders without using them as guinea-pigs before they are executed.

I'm not for the death penalty, unless everything is clear that there is no chance of the perpetrators of re-entering society and of course, that its been proven to the upmost that they were guilty of the crimes they committed.

My comments about guinea-pig experiments may offend, however we act scientifically when we experiment on animals..I dont see why it would be any different treating a human as such, when they have effectively removed themselves from what we all mostly hold dear to us, our humanity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

too much of a minefield to say "kill all murderers".....would you send a man to the chair if he purposely slaughtered in a barbaric way someone who had killed his wife or raped his child?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Pillow pimp....Not responible for there acts? so a guy rapes a child and who would be responsible,the kids mother?

No rush pillow

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

"Pillow pimp....Not responible for there acts? so a guy rapes a child and who would be responsible,the kids mother?

No rush pillow

Mental health, wrong meds wrong treatment but hey shoot them instead of correcting the system.

Or maybe use your app

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

from another thread a while ago, John Lennons murderer..is still in prison, with the exception of child murderers(with most points being discussed above in other posts), the law appears to change for people of different social standings.Sorry but I respect unfortunate events of this week, but what message does it send to anyone when we say that police murderers should be treated any different from civilians?

The whole crime has to be taken into account I'd say, in the case of the police women this week, that was a planned and co-ordinated event, whereas other police murders may be more to do with self-preservation (hope u's understand how I'm meaning this),as they happen at the time of the crime.

Unfortunately our system is always open to misuse, and actually think about it right now....the advancement in digital imagery..one photograph of someone may soon be enough to place u in the video of a crime.How much do we trust the sources of evidence, past ,present and future?- if justice is honest and can prevail against misuse then I support the death penalty.However I dont think an 'apology' is enough to a wrongly convicted person, particularly if they have been put to death.Its a rare thing it happens as I have faith that most of the justice system is, well..just, but if we probably dug back into every conviction in the last century, I'm sure some things may pop up leading to the questions on the authenticity of witnesses and physical evidence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pillow pimp....Not responible for there acts? so a guy rapes a child and who would be responsible,the kids mother?

No rush pillow

Occasionally people with mental health problems do things where they cannlt be held responsible for their actions. No matter how horrible. Thats a fact. They are ill and need to be treated, behind bars but still treated.

And I'm tired of people using the hypothetical suffering of children to try and add weight to argjments. Its As if the rape of an adult man or woman means fuck all, but a child oh dear god thats sooooo much worse.

But as I'm growing tired of this thread I'll just say why not let you have your way. We'll dispense with trial by jury and go to a Judge Dredd style set up where the police decide if you look a bit dodgy and pop you in the back of the head for nicking a mars bar.

Then you'd probably moan about your hard earned taxes paying for bullets. Why oh why are these people having nice shiny bullets put in them? They should be torn apart by dogs then we wouldn't have to spend hard earned taxpayers money on dog food.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pillow pimp....Not responible for there acts? so a guy rapes a child and who would be responsible,the kids mother?

No rush pillow

agree with much apart from the child part.Any crime against a child is worse.It shows the perpetrator has preyed on the defenseless, probably using tactics to keep them quiet, moreso than an adult male or female.A child will endure its formative years, into teenage and adult life carrying a host of problems.There is very little I can say why I believe crimes against children apart from it just being obvious to me why I believe it so.I suppose that is why the protection of children is priority in almost any case in the eyes of our society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An adult raped or attacked will suffer psychological problems too. And the very fact that they've had that done to them shows that they were unable to defend themselves. So there should be no difference.

Kids are just used as examples to tug at heartstrings, nothing more. And we react to it as most animals do when their kids are threatened. But when you narrow it down, adult or child, the crime against them is no less terrible. Its just most peoples perception.

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By *inkyScot22Man
over a year ago

Anniesland

I'd quite like to see prisons turned into blood/organ/bone marrow banks instead, if you're going to execute someone why not save as many lives as possible in the process? A 'light' version of this proposal would make it voluntary, e.g. 1 pint of blood = 1 day off your sentence, 1 bone marrow transplant = 3 months, 1 kidney = 1 yr, etc

I'd love to see all those people off the nhs waiting lists...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

will agree to disagree, I know in all cases what the psychological reactions are, I'm not saying one crime IS worse than another...but I know from experience that children will have a much higher degree of scarring and ability to cope with such events, and these can manifest more, especially with the age of realization of what happened to them- again its why these crimes are seen as the worst around the world.

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

"Not responible for there acts? so a guy rapes a child and who would be responsible,the kids mother?

No rush pillow

"Or would these lunatics still kill innocent people?"

You used the word lunatics G by definition

The word lunatic is an informal term for people who are dangerous, mentally ill, or perhaps unpredictable to name but a few.

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

"children will have a much higher degree of scarring and ability to cope with such events, and these can manifest more,"

Flip side though is that some "adults" may only have the mental age of a child their adult only by birth certificate and growth.

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

"I'd love to see all those people off the nhs waiting lists..."

So did harold shipman or maybe he was just skint

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By *ex n MusicCouple
over a year ago

Perth

"Il go back to the names...

Tobin....black.....Brady...West....brevikk....

All guilty without a doubt...

Hell brevikk even said he wished he had Killed more...does that man Honestly deserve a flat screen tv.gym and 3 meals a Day??"

No he doesnt ..and there lies the under lining problem with our justice system.

Brenda

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Jodie yer like a bloke with PMT, first you want all minor crimanals to be killed, now death without jury, police state? You did say you would walk away from this thread but maybe your high heels are slowing you down

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pmsl @ yer like a bloke with pmt

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

shh Jo lol

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

"Pmsl @ yer like a bloke with pmt

"shh Jo lol"

I think this is a good time for me to bolt from this ere thread before....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Before you are hung drawn and quartered? lol

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

"Before you are hung drawn and quartered? lol"

Au contraire i dont want to be a witness

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Please dont watch as Jodie pumps one into me ...

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

"Please dont watch as Jodie pumps one into me ...

I so hope those heels have a sense of humour failing that with great pleasure i shall watch with my hands over eyes peeking through my fingers

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So do i ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Please dont watch as Jodie pumps one into me ...

Bend over and take it like a man.... (from Jodie of course).....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I was talking about being shot pmsl

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By *akedninjaMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

Ultimate power corrupts and no one should have the right of life or death over another and humans are prone to error so any system that consigns another to death is a system that's morally,ethically wrong on so many levels and would a death sentence deter people from killing?yea it would abdomen deter normal people from killing but it would also encourage killers to go all out and kill more and more as they won't have anything to lose after the first kill

look at countries with the death penalty in place,they still have the highest murder rates in the world

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not responible for there acts? so a guy rapes a child and who would be responsible,the kids mother?

No rush pillow

Again, this relates to how our society deals with these issues. Something is wrong with the psycho-sexual map of a paedophile. They need treatment and we need to do more research to discover why it happens and how we correct it, otherwise the temptation will always get the better of them. Imagine that having sex with women was illegal and morally repugnant. How do you think you would cope? You can't touch one, you can't look at one, you can't tell anyone what your feelings are. Think it would be easy?

There have been repeated cases of paedophiles (and they are both men and women) going to the authorities and pleading for help because they are frightened of what they might do and are refused.

Of course, the difference is clear, I only try to make us think outside the box. They know that paedophilia is wrong, but it is the decision to act upon it knowingly hurting a child that is evil. Much of this discussion has centred on the cost of incarceration. How much would you be willing to spend on researching a cure for paedophilia that might prevent a child being raped?

Of course, you also have differing perceptions of what is classed as paedophilia. I had an affaire with a teacher at 15, she was 21. We lived together and we're engaged, but nowadays she'd be arrested. Society used to define the age of consent as a girl entering puberty. Romeo & Juliet, one of our greatest pieces of fiction, repeatedly describes what we would class as paedophile relationships but who complains about it or demands it be banned?

Our perceptions shape our reality. Those calling for the death penalty condone murder. Can anyone say the executions carried out by witch trials were anything but cold-blooded murder? But they were legal and society was convinced of the guilt and the evil of the victims, not to mention that the evidence was, to them, incontrovertible. Many confessed.

We have a government which has not only condoned but actively participated in the illegal torture and false imprisonment of thousands and the murder of many more in revenge for a crime that had nothing to do with the people whom they have attacked. We have a police force whose officers have repeatedly been caught lying and fabricating evidence to suit their decisions or cover their mistakes. We have a secret service that lies to give government the excuses to commit atrocities in our name. We cannot afford to give them any more ways to abuse the system.

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