FabSwingers.com forum: Tax credits and childcare

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Has anyone else found major issues with these in recent weeks?

We get about 30% of our childcare costs to help but after one of our costs quadrupled for the summer holidays we are now paying £411 per week for our kids childcare (2 kids). We updated the details and now get a very useful £14 a week!!

How can they expect people to be able to survive when they are paying out close to £400 a week?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is it worth you working ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

it could be a very opionated topic. Admittidly it isnt easy. I work full time but we need to surivive on the one wage childcare would cost more than what would be earned.

If neither of us worked we woudnt need to worry about council tax rent etc. The harder you work the less help you get when you genuinely need it.

Im not saying benefits is a lifestyle choice as ive been there too when i was out of work.

Its just a flawed system.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hickencurryCouple
over a year ago

brisbane

"Is it worth you working ?"

this is exactly what's wrong with this country

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What's wrong with my comment ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hickencurryCouple
over a year ago

brisbane

nothing at all, and it's very valid.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ok , I think lol

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

£400 a week.... Holy Fuck. Is that 2 kids in childcare full time? I'm to the understanding that you should get up to 70% of your child care costs.... Of course that depends on your joint earnings.

It could also be if you have had over payments last year and now they are trying to get it back?

Maybe call them and go through all your details etc, costs, earnings, hours worked etc... There may be a mistake somewhere

Good luck

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it is for the duration of the school holidays

Surely you can query the reason behind the X4 increase. bit of a kick between the legs to recieve such a paltry amount.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *adcowWoman
over a year ago

kirkcaldy

would it be worth your while finding a fulltime nanny instead. friend of my daughters went to australia as one last year she only got £200 per week plus board.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Very cheeky here but ... your getting child care allowance, why was that brought in? Was it cos after the war we needed to produce more kids, hence the government helped pay for them? (well the tax payer)

Do i get any government bonuses for not having children, who wont then buy cars and wont pollute the world? Doubtful, just intrigued when this was brought in and why?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you have them ,you pay for them !! dont expectthe state to fund you the sooner child benefit is done away with the better ,money could be pt to better use

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *cottybhoyMan
over a year ago

falkirk

Fuck me - I thought all the Facists belonged to another thread about marches!!

Of course the state should help with child-care. Otherwise we would have very productive parents (women especially) with lots to contribute to this country through their skills, knowledge and experience stuck at home.

I find the attitudes of folks with no kids remarkable.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Child care costs are mental and help is needed, in the day of the wars, you neevr had all these nurserys open, women didnt work, everything was different.

In this day and age, if your family cant help, you do have to rely on child care and the cost of child care can be more than your wages.

In all these years wages have never went up the same way, insurance costs, tv licences and everything else has inflated.

Plus why shouldnt the state help children? They help junkies, and all the lazy ass fuckers that want to sit on there asses all day.

So why not help people who do actually want to do a hard days work!!!!!!

I would call and double check, but as far as I know, im sure your supposed to give your years total including estimate costs for all holidays, then that helps you to prepare for the years costs. I've no idea why they would put it down if it was higher before and your actual costs are higher now.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"you have them ,you pay for them !! dont expectthe state to fund you the sooner child benefit is done away with the better ,money could be pt to better use "
. Maybe if help was not given then some parents might decide not to work & get other benifits costing the tax payer more than helping out hard working familys.if people didnt have children where would the next tax payer come from & pension contributions to pay your old age pension

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I find the attitudes of folks with no kids remarkable. "

why? are we not allowed one if they are different

This is going to be an interesting thread, we will have plenty galore speaking up for it, much lesser speaking against it....

reason for less, will not be that there is no one against it, just worried they get blocked and no shag.

I think people jump in and have kids far too early and do not financially prepare to be able to cope for the next 20 years, sadly for some their circumstances change due to bereavement, separation or redundancy.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a single parent with one income, no maintenance I have managed most of my childrens lifes without claiming tax credit, I was extremely gratefull for it when due to my eldest ill health it allowed me to reduce my hours for a year till she recovered.

I dont think anyone should rely on goverment payments and sorry OP but certainly not object when they dont meet your child care costs.

In my opinion any benefit should be there for genuine hard times not as a weekly or monthly income supplement.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

we ARE financially stable, and were when we had our kids. we own our house, however, can any of you afford council tax, mortage, food and bills aswell as pay out £200 a week for atleast one childs nursery place? Thats an outgoing of £800 a month all because you want to work

no would be the answer hence why child tax credits are there in the first place. jesus, as i said, you just cannot win when it comes to those who dont have kids..or those who have done a runner from them

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Working Family Tax credit and Child Care tax credit were bought in to get people back into work. Its different to child benefit.

It was bought in to help those with kids, off all ages to get back to work. Previously, people with kids were finding that the cost of child care was too expensive… Its approx £3 to £4 an hour per kid. Family of 2 kids would mean at least £6 an hour. Thats possibly what a lot of people earn as its around minimum wage.

Its cheaper for the government to help with childcare than it is to pay for them to be on the dole. It gets people into work, in the system and feel they are contributing to the system rather than been sat at home with the rest of the Jezza kyle fodder.

Those on minimum wage can get a substantial amount a month to help, those earning more, get considerably less.

So, even those with no kids, or dont want kids…. you are paying for people to get WTC and CTC but if you werent, you would probably be paying their council tax,housing rent, dole etc etc….

Steve

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"we ARE financially stable, and were when we had our kids. we own our house, however, can any of you afford council tax, mortage, food and bills aswell as pay out £200 a week for atleast one childs nursery place? Thats an outgoing of £800 a month all because you want to work

yeah I own my home, pay council tax, utilities and food from one salary and pay £300 per month to board my dogs at a day kennel, so probably similar to your expenditure from 2 salaries..

I just gave my opinion and resect yours.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"Working Family Tax credit and Child Care tax credit were bought in to get people back into work. Its different to child benefit.

Those on minimum wage can get a substantial amount a month to help, those earning more, get considerably less.

So, even those with no kids, or dont want kids…. you are paying for people to get WTC and CTC but if you werent, you would probably be paying their council tax,housing rent, dole etc etc….

Steve"

I agree, I didn't say I was against it

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

respect*

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

its also worth noting that when families are recieving childcare tax credits they are always contributng to their nursery fees themselves, its not 100% paid for them. Also, the amount is reduced every year whilst nursery fees are raised, hence why so many working families are forced into giving up work and signing on. thankfully we are not at that stage yet, but thousands are...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"yeah I own my home, pay council tax, utilities and food from one salary and pay £300 per month to board my dogs at a day kennel, so probably similar to your expenditure from 2 salaries..

I just gave my opinion and respect yours."

sorry but £300 per month is a heck of a lot less than £800 per month...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"yeah I own my home, pay council tax, utilities and food from one salary and pay £300 per month to board my dogs at a day kennel, so probably similar to your expenditure from 2 salaries..

I just gave my opinion and respect yours.

sorry but £300 per month is a heck of a lot less than £800 per month...

apologies, I assumed you had 2 salaries

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"apologies, I assumed you had 2 salaries"

and two children....so its still more, not to mention dog food is cheaper, dogs dont require clothing and nappies (well i know some people do put clothes on dogs lol)

without sounding a complete bitch, i dont think you can really compare the price of keeping dogs to the price of children x

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Been a registered child minder could be lucrative BTW….

Those that live in an area of high demand, ie where lots of people working, either affluent or using CTC can look after up to six kids. £200 + for each kid (assuming full time). Its not tax free… but the aim of any child minder will be to pay as little tax as they can. If they have their own kids, they can work, earn good money and not have to pay for child care themselves.

Steve

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"apologies, I assumed you had 2 salaries

and two children....so its still more, not to mention dog food is cheaper, dogs dont require clothing and nappies (well i know some people do put clothes on dogs lol)

without sounding a complete bitch, i dont think you can really compare the price of keeping dogs to the price of children x"

I dont think you are sounding like a complete bitch but you posted asking for opinions, people gave them. You then lambasted them for it...

I didn't say I was against it, I think people could financially prepare more.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For a full time place at a private nursery for 1 child....obviously depending on the nursery as each chanrges a different fee depending on the area.....

our local nursery for a full time place is £ 870 per month.....thats for 1 child .... This is exactly why tax credits are needed to allow parents to work rather than be on the dole etc....

Not everyone has family prepared to muck in and help with looking after kids...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"For a full time place at a private nursery for 1 child....obviously depending on the nursery as each chanrges a different fee depending on the area.....

our local nursery for a full time place is £ 870 per month.....thats for 1 child .... This is exactly why tax credits are needed to allow parents to work rather than be on the dole etc....

Not everyone has family prepared to muck in and help with looking after kids...

it is a lot of money Jo..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

exactly, mega bucks. the only drawback to that though is they must be registered as a legal childminder and the vast majority of them are through agencies.

We looked at having a full time nanny for the wee guy and for the eldest when the schools are off, but they needed upfront payments which were the agencies finder fees, and a months wages upfront. you then need to pay another company to provide their wage slips and they also deal with their tax, they also dont do that for free. Petrol costs and the addition costs for things like swimming etc too. Believe it or not, just for the nanny, the fees of the agency and payslip compnay we were £40 a week more than the nursery

The council nurseries do run a scheme for kids when they are 3, you get 15 hours free at the nurseries but these are only a select few nurseries and the places are limited. Whilst next year we would be eligeble for that, we probably wont get it.

nurseries make serious money, they charge a fortune yet pay their staff minimum wage. #goldmines

An idea for the government would be to possibly introduce a fees cap for these nurseries. But that would be too sensible..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

A couple on the dole with 2 kids in a private let could average £600 a month rent £120 council tax dole and tax credits £200 per week? = £920 paid out and no income tax NI contributed by them so why is it then so wrong to give some money back to the couples who do have jobs and are struggling to survive?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/07/12 21:25:25]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A couple on the dole with 2 kids in a private let could average £600 a month rent £120 council tax dole and tax credits £200 per week? = £920 paid out and no income tax NI contributed by them so why is it then so wrong to give some money back to the couples who do have jobs and are struggling to survive?"

tottaly agree

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oversforfun2000Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

I am the same with the childcare issue although we are lucky enough that my parents watch them for us to work otherwise we would be over 1000 to have the 3 of them watched between nursery and after school care. If that was the case it wouldn't be viable for us both to work so I thank god for my parents......The major issue isn't the tax credits which are a great thing its the prices private nurseries charge they are an absolute disgrace!!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am the same with the childcare issue although we are lucky enough that my parents watch them for us to work otherwise we would be over 1000 to have the 3 of them watched between nursery and after school care. If that was the case it wouldn't be viable for us both to work so I thank god for my parents......The major issue isn't the tax credits which are a great thing its the prices private nurseries charge they are an absolute disgrace!! "

Agree'd...private nurserys esp and astronomical.....

many are a buisness to the people running them also....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

two kids in full time school but requiring before and after school care and then full time care during holidays = £11,500 per annum ( I worked it out )

travel to and from glasgow £2,000 per annum

tax and national insurance per annum (roughly) £3,000

totals £16,500

average admin role in glasgow paying at the moment £17,000 ...........

no family local as we're up here with patch's job and anyhow both my parents work full time.

can't do evening and weekend work as patch's job means he isn't here on an irregular basis

we aren't entitled to CTC or WTC ...... so I guess I'll sit here and let my brain stew ...................

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"you have them ,you pay for them !! dont expectthe state to fund you the sooner child benefit is done away with the better ,money could be pt to better use "

Kind of agree. Why should I help pay for other peoples kids

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mum of 3 here....

Both work and thank god for my mum

Auds xx

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"you have them ,you pay for them !! dont expectthe state to fund you the sooner child benefit is done away with the better ,money could be pt to better use "

It will be the kids of today who will pay your pensions, put you to bed, feed you, dress you and ultimately care for you.... In your dotage?

Do you expect the state to fund your care home when you're brain has rotted and body failing?

Have you 'prepared' for your care home costs?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

catch 22....

childcare means people can work....

if they cant work...

they are then on benefits.....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago

more north lincs than mids!

Can I just say that it's not just council nurseries .... ALL nurseries or pre-school establishments must offer the same. The 15 hours is paid for by the government.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago

more north lincs than mids!

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take "

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hickencurryCouple
over a year ago

brisbane

imagine the nurseries would be glad to take the guaranteed money. I'd look into this

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago

more north lincs than mids!

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way"

How do you expect people to live if they are actively searching for work where there are very few positions for 100's of applicants?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way"

so you propose no childcare help...no benefits....so how do people do people have kids...how do people live....????

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hickencurryCouple
over a year ago

brisbane

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way

How do you expect people to live if they are actively searching for work where there are very few positions for 100's of applicants?"

awaiting the answer to this with great interest. Although funny feeling it'll be dissapointing

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way

How do you expect people to live if they are actively searching for work where there are very few positions for 100's of applicants?

awaiting the answer to this with great interest. Although funny feeling it'll be dissapointing"

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way

How do you expect people to live if they are actively searching for work where there are very few positions for 100's of applicants?"

I know someone who hasn't had a job in 2 years. Won't work for minimum wage and has no interest in a job. Anyone on benefits should get a one strike rule. Even if working a 40 hour week only makes you a fiver better off if they reject that they should be stopped. People just dot want to work. Te piles seem to find work no bother over here.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way

How do you expect people to live if they are actively searching for work where there are very few positions for 100's of applicants?

Ok...what about the people that want to work that need childcare....yer you want that removed as you dont want to pay for it.....makes no sence......

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago

more north lincs than mids!

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way

How do you expect people to live if they are actively searching for work where there are very few positions for 100's of applicants?

I'm sorry, that doesn't answer my question. How do you propose that jobseekers support themselves while actively looking for employment that they have little chance of gaining due to the high number of applicants?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way

How do you expect people to live if they are actively searching for work where there are very few positions for 100's of applicants?

and would also like to add nowt like stereotyping..........

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way

How do you expect people to live if they are actively searching for work where there are very few positions for 100's of applicants?

Looking ? Most aren't. They just blame they big bad poles for stealing there jobs as an excuse for them not getting any. I don't see much unemployed polish people over here. They are willing to do anything to make money doesn't matter which job. The Brits won't do anything they just keep waiting till a good job. Anyone on job seekers allowance for any longer than a month isn't trying hard enough for a job Or they would have found one

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hickencurryCouple
over a year ago

brisbane

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way

How do you expect people to live if they are actively searching for work where there are very few positions for 100's of applicants?

just knew you wouldn't let me down

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way

How do you expect people to live if they are actively searching for work where there are very few positions for 100's of applicants?

just knew you wouldn't let me down

I also know someone when out of work

Tried to sign on but was knocked

Back as had to much savings in his bank. So since he didn't go and blow

His money and be sensible with it he was penilised. 2 weeks later he was cleaning toilets. He's a joiner but done that for 2 months until a better one came up. Most ppl just aren't willing to do that

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago

more north lincs than mids!

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way

How do you expect people to live if they are actively searching for work where there are very few positions for 100's of applicants?

I was on jobseekers for 6 months before I managed to get a job, and believe me I was looking. Unfortunately, I had to consider my children in the equation with regards to shift work, plus what jobs I was actually qualified to do. Never mind the fact that at the time, my husband was in another country serving his country.

Your proposal would mean that I would have been left without any money even though I was actively looking for a job.

Now, the shoe is on the other foot. I am the one working, my husband is no longer in the forces and has been looking for a job since December. His JSA has been stopped, shall I tell you why? Because I work 2 hours over what the deem suitable to allow him to collect any benefits.

I don't even work full time, not even 30 hours a week. Benefits are granted on how much you earn anymore, it's all about how many hours you work so you are damned either way.

Have you ever tried to feed a family of 4, clothe them, pay a mortgage, bills etc on less than £10k a year? Cos I can tell you, it's soul destroying.

If I was to give up work, the social would pay half of my mortgage, the council tax would be paid, my kids would get free school meals, plus countless other "benefits".

So don't sit there and make out to me that the government helping working parents with a few ££ a week towards childcare (which incidentally creates more jobs for people) is draining the system the same way that arse lazy junkies and alcoholics do.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

"Cheers mate

if you work it should be stopped and to previous posters who said I didn't have kids? Fact is can't support them the don't work and take

Are you saying that if people are struggling to afford child care while they work that they should give up work and claim benefits???

Benefits should be stopped aswell for jobless people so that wouldn't be an option if I had my way"

Oh yeah so only the rich should have kids then? what an attitude.

I agree in some way about the dole as there are a lot of folk round here and able bodied that I have never known to work and never will so why should we pay for them.

Society would collapse in a few yrs if hardworking cpls were punished for having kids.

I for one dont mind my taxes going to this as its better spent there than bailing out big intsitutions whose greed fucked us all and still is.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

[Removed by poster at 10/07/12 22:25:42]