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"My whole street was put clapping " Were some of them Tory voters? Pretty ironic if there were. Remember when the Tories cheered at defeating the bill to give the NHS workers a pay rise last year. Yup. | |||
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"My whole street was put clapping Were some of them Tory voters? Pretty ironic if there were. Remember when the Tories cheered at defeating the bill to give the NHS workers a pay rise last year. Yup." Aghhhhhhhhhh. This is why Fab can be so awful. | |||
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"What the hell of how be voted got to do with how people voted.If you think this is political you have a twisted mind" I like it when people are so cross that they can't type. I'm guessing you're suggesting that supporting the NHS is an apolitical matter. However people who voted Tory, voted for a party who has squeezed the health service to near destruction. And for a party who cheered at defeating a bill to give these people a pay rise. So clapping for them hardly makes up for it. | |||
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"Considering that NHS felt the pain of the conservatives’ austerity measures as much as our other services, was it hypocritical for tories and their voters to clap tonight or was it an acknowledgement of how important the NHS is? Not a statement or dig but a question as I’m wondering. . Hi . I have checked expenditure on the NHS for the last ten years and cannot see any year any where it has fallen. In the present crisis we should all be unconditional in our support for both NHS and other front line staff and not using it to attempt to score political points. " So you don't think it's important to debate how to properly fund the NHS and that nurses are properly paid? Just crack on with the Tories, and clap instead? | |||
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"What the hell of how be voted got to do with how people voted.If you think this is political you have a twisted mind" Totally agree with the quote.Not a lot to say about this post, i do wonder what goes on in some peoples heads though. | |||
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" Were some of them Tory voters? Pretty ironic if there were. Remember when the Tories cheered at defeating the bill to give the NHS workers a pay rise last year. Yup. Aghhhhhhhhhh. This is why Fab can be so awful. " ******************** I know, damned sad it is too. Some poor beggars on here. Eva | |||
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"Considering that NHS felt the pain of the conservatives’ austerity measures as much as our other services, was it hypocritical for tories and their voters to clap tonight or was it an acknowledgement of how important the NHS is? Not a statement or dig but a question as I’m wondering. " Why don't you get a life? Not a statement or a dig, but a question as I'm wondering  | |||
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"Considering that NHS felt the pain of the conservatives’ austerity measures as much as our other services, was it hypocritical for tories and their voters to clap tonight or was it an acknowledgement of how important the NHS is? Not a statement or dig but a question as I’m wondering. " When it comes to the latest batch of Tory voters, aka non-traditional Tory voters, I think they value and support the NHS as much as the rest of us. It's not them that's the problem. Whether we like it or not, most of the new "recruits" didn't vote Tory in the last election because they agree with the sum of Tory values/policies but because a) BoJo promised them to Brexit "come what may, do or die" and b) because the Opposition was so useless that even Bozo the Clown was gonna win against them (and, not to mention, c) Fuhrage gifted them 300+ constituencies). This IS a political issue however, whether we choose to be in denial about it or not. The NHS staff KNOW that the public appreciate them. After all, *they* are part of the public too. If only the current Government appreciated them half as much by not squeezing their recourses to death, thus making it dangerous for them to safely carry out their duties in situations like this one (amongst all the other ways they're impeded from providing the service they'd rather provide and to the standards they'd have preferred). Call me a cynic but what we're witnessing, disguised under all this, are the subtle but sure movements/seeds/machinations to end free healthcare in the UK. We, the public, are being asked to "protect, value, appreciate and clap for" the NHS while our "top dogs" are already plotting how to use this crisis (in combination with other things/excuses) in order to morph it into a government money-making machine as opposed to a life-saving service for all. I didn't clap for the NHS today. I value them hugely (and I make sure I let them know at every opportunity) but I refuse to participate in this charade that's designed to make them feel better for a couple of minutes and magically make them forget or not mind that they then have to go back to work in unforgivably substandard conditions. If anything, we should all be up in arms that our fellow citizens have to risk *their* lives (something which is totally avoidable) in order to save ours. So, yeah, slow clap for those who are responsible for that. | |||
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"You will of course voice these opinions should you be wheeled into intensive care gasping for your last political statement." I don't need to tell *them* these "opinions". They know the situation they're in much better than any of us. They keep asking the Government for help and the response they get is a call to the public to clap. We're not magicians. Clapping won't produce a cloud of smoke out of which equipment or beds, etc appear. But, yeah, keep clapping rather than *demand* that their pleas aren't ignored. | |||
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"Considering that NHS felt the pain of the conservatives’ austerity measures as much as our other services, was it hypocritical for tories and their voters to clap tonight or was it an acknowledgement of how important the NHS is? Not a statement or dig but a question as I’m wondering. . Hi . I have checked expenditure on the NHS for the last ten years and cannot see any year any where it has fallen. In the present crisis we should all be unconditional in our support for both NHS and other front line staff and not using it to attempt to score political points. " Is London in the East Midlands?  | |||
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"I would've thought that anyone who pays their fair share in tax and national insurance supports the NHS without question. I don't see how it becomes a question of political leaning. Bizarre premise from the out-set" You don't think that voting for a party who cheered and celebrated defeating a bill last year to give NHS workers and nurses a pay rise, displays a person's view on the NHS? | |||
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"I would've thought that anyone who pays their fair share in tax and national insurance supports the NHS without question. I don't see how it becomes a question of political leaning. Bizarre premise from the out-set You don't think that voting for a party who cheered and celebrated defeating a bill last year to give NHS workers and nurses a pay rise, displays a person's view on the NHS?" No i think numpties who play the left/right game and come up with this sort of tripe during what is a very worrying time for the whole nation should just leave the blame game for long after the last victim has been buried and the last ventilator has been switched off. That shit aint very helpful at this particular moment. Anyone daft enough to vote for any party can bicker all they want in a few months time (fingers crossed) after the emergency has downgraded.... | |||
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"My whole street was put clapping Were some of them Tory voters? Pretty ironic if there were. Remember when the Tories cheered at defeating the bill to give the NHS workers a pay rise last year. Yup."  | |||
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"Clapping last nite was about showing some appreciation for the sacrifices and hard work being made in the NHS, it was nothing to do with party politics and the goverment had nothing to do with the organisation of last nite either. Maybe some of you that keep rattling on about if you vote for this or that you are this or that should take a minute to reflect on what these brave men and women are doing for us all, or maybe i should tell my daughter who is one of them to ask which way you vote and what's your favourite colour before she decides whether to treat you or leave you to suffer in the car park. " Maybe some of you that are Tory voters that clapped last night should take a minute to reflect on what these brave men and women are doing for us all, or maybe i should tell my friends who are some of them to ask if you clapped and what's your favourite colour before they decides whether to treat you or leave you to suffer in the car park. Properly paying and funding the NHS is more important than clapping. Ask anyone who works there. Don't you see the hypocrisy in voting Tory, then clapping as if you do appropriate the NHS in some faux gesture? No one is playing the "blame game". Some of us have been on the side of the NHS our hole lives. Not just these last two months. | |||
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"My old dad tild me when I left school. Never religion or politics Debate. Its the two things that can destroy friendship " That's silly. You should be able to debate these things with your friends. If they're worth their salt you can talk about anything. | |||
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"Clapping last nite was about showing some appreciation for the sacrifices and hard work being made in the NHS, it was nothing to do with party politics and the goverment had nothing to do with the organisation of last nite either. Maybe some of you that keep rattling on about if you vote for this or that you are this or that should take a minute to reflect on what these brave men and women are doing for us all, or maybe i should tell my daughter who is one of them to ask which way you vote and what's your favourite colour before she decides whether to treat you or leave you to suffer in the car park. Maybe some of you that are Tory voters that clapped last night should take a minute to reflect on what these brave men and women are doing for us all, or maybe i should tell my friends who are some of them to ask if you clapped and what's your favourite colour before they decides whether to treat you or leave you to suffer in the car park. Properly paying and funding the NHS is more important than clapping. Ask anyone who works there. Don't you see the hypocrisy in voting Tory, then clapping as if you do appropriate the NHS in some faux gesture? No one is playing the "blame game". Some of us have been on the side of the NHS our hole lives. Not just these last two months." you assume I voted tory, this is fuck all to do with politics with me,I am very proud of my daughter who had been doing the job for a few years now ( more than two months) and my mother who worked for the NHS for nearly 30 years till she retired and I know they appreciated that little show of public support last nite and I am sure many others did too, there will be plenty of time to argue over what should have happened an when and who's fault it all is but now is not the time. I know they don't have all the kit they need ( very worried for my daughter) as do you if you have friends on the frontline but very little is going to change that right now and thankfully for us all these brave people are getting on with the job and I think the least we can do is be supportive right now and sift thru the shit afterwards. | |||
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"I would've thought that anyone who pays their fair share in tax and national insurance supports the NHS without question. I don't see how it becomes a question of political leaning. Bizarre premise from the out-set You don't think that voting for a party who cheered and celebrated defeating a bill last year to give NHS workers and nurses a pay rise, displays a person's view on the NHS?" nice headline but not really reflecting what really happened is it? This i take it was the vote in 2017 not to increase the 1% cap on public services of which nurses are part of.If you really want headlines why not say they clapped to defeat for instance handicapped people or gay and lesbian even people of ethnic minorities as im sure there are plenty of those who also work in the public sector.Tell it how it is and stop trying to sensationalize everything you may find people take a bit more notice. | |||
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"Yeh i vote tory and clapped last night,will carry on doing so until perhaps labour come up with a better plan of running the country than they had last time by almost bankcrupting it,which is why we all had to go thru austerity cuts from what i can remember.They are not teally a good opposition to any party really,never have they got any good ideas and will say what you want to hear knowing they will never be elected and usually total opposite to what the tory put in effect.I blame labour for all of this they just never deliver the goods,dont convince the electorate and never get elected hardly.So all you tree huggers go away get together and come back with a real opposition party,i might look into voting for you then.God im bored and lookin for trouble sorry lol" I mean if you still believe the myth that Labour borrow more than the Tories. What hope is there. | |||
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"There was no hope with corbyn,borrow money they might but put it to better use i think ,they can run the economy better ,labour couldnt run a sweet shop" There's plenty of time if you want to try again. | |||
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" I have checked expenditure on the NHS for the last ten years and cannot see any year any where it has fallen. " Come on now. You surely appreciate it's not simply a case of whether or not NHS funding has fallen, but of whether or not its getting what it needs to provide a quality service? The population grows each year and gets older each year, new technologies and drugs add costs, and there are many other factors. | |||
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"I love the NHS and the people that work for it. " And this: "I vote tories " Are mutually exclusive. | |||
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"I would've thought that anyone who pays their fair share in tax and national insurance supports the NHS without question. I don't see how it becomes a question of political leaning. Bizarre premise from the out-set You don't think that voting for a party who cheered and celebrated defeating a bill last year to give NHS workers and nurses a pay rise, displays a person's view on the NHS? No i think numpties who play the left/right game and come up with this sort of tripe during what is a very worrying time for the whole nation should just leave the blame game for long after the last victim has been buried and the last ventilator has been switched off. That shit aint very helpful at this particular moment. Anyone daft enough to vote for any party can bicker all they want in a few months time (fingers crossed) after the emergency has downgraded...." exactly | |||
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"evan when good things happen thers always some 1 that moans I was a labour supporter but sick of listening to them moaning all the time "Which is the good thing in this scenario? What we need is s properly funded NHS. Clapping,and voting Tory won't achieve that. If you're happy to keep quiet and comply, fine, but labelling anyone who speaks up a "moaner" seems to be a new thing. | |||
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" (...) there will be plenty of time to argue over what should have happened an when and who's fault it all is but now is not the time. (...) " ...just like Trump says every time there's a mass shooting. Memories are very short, especially when there's always another "crisis" (real or manufactured to divert attention) that "demands" recourses and focus. And round round we go. | |||
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" (...) there will be plenty of time to argue over what should have happened an when and who's fault it all is but now is not the time. (...) ...just like Trump says every time there's a mass shooting. Memories are very short, especially when there's always another "crisis" (real or manufactured to divert attention) that "demands" recourses and focus. And round round we go." The most heartbreaking thing I saw was some comment from a son to his dad saying “Hey at least with all the schools closed there won’t be any school shootings”. 
-Matt | |||
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"What the hell of how be voted got to do with how people voted.If you think this is political you have a twisted mind I like it when people are so cross that they can't type. I'm guessing you're suggesting that supporting the NHS is an apolitical matter. However people who voted Tory, voted for a party who has squeezed the health service to near destruction. And for a party who cheered at defeating a bill to give these people a pay rise. So clapping for them hardly makes up for it." This current government is not a passed tory government but even if things where different we could not have been prepared for this virus.I here Italy is meant to have a first class national health service not doing well in this crisis. I know many NHS workers and they are great people and work hard all the time not just now.Trying to put politics into the current situation is appaling in my view.Afterwards we can then hold the debate | |||
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"What the hell of how be voted got to do with how people voted.If you think this is political you have a twisted mind I like it when people are so cross that they can't type. I'm guessing you're suggesting that supporting the NHS is an apolitical matter. However people who voted Tory, voted for a party who has squeezed the health service to near destruction. And for a party who cheered at defeating a bill to give these people a pay rise. So clapping for them hardly makes up for it.This current government is not a passed tory government but even if things where different we could not have been prepared for this virus.I here Italy is meant to have a first class national health service not doing well in this crisis. I know many NHS workers and they are great people and work hard all the time not just now.Trying to put politics into the current situation is appaling in my view.Afterwards we can then hold the debate" According to some labour supporters, people who voted Brexit are racists, people who voted for Tory government hate NHS and NHS workers. They will keep posting stuff like this linking everything to the election so that they can feel morally and intellectually superior. Let them have some fun. | |||
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"What the hell of how be voted got to do with how people voted.If you think this is political you have a twisted mind I like it when people are so cross that they can't type. I'm guessing you're suggesting that supporting the NHS is an apolitical matter. However people who voted Tory, voted for a party who has squeezed the health service to near destruction. And for a party who cheered at defeating a bill to give these people a pay rise. So clapping for them hardly makes up for it.This current government is not a passed tory government but even if things where different we could not have been prepared for this virus.I here Italy is meant to have a first class national health service not doing well in this crisis. I know many NHS workers and they are great people and work hard all the time not just now.Trying to put politics into the current situation is appaling in my view.Afterwards we can then hold the debate According to some labour supporters, people who voted Brexit are racists, people who voted for Tory government hate NHS and NHS workers. They will keep posting stuff like this linking everything to the election so that they can feel morally and intellectually superior. Let them have some fun." | |||
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"What the hell of how be voted got to do with how people voted.If you think this is political you have a twisted mind I like it when people are so cross that they can't type. I'm guessing you're suggesting that supporting the NHS is an apolitical matter. However people who voted Tory, voted for a party who has squeezed the health service to near destruction. And for a party who cheered at defeating a bill to give these people a pay rise. So clapping for them hardly makes up for it.This current government is not a passed tory government but even if things where different we could not have been prepared for this virus.I here Italy is meant to have a first class national health service not doing well in this crisis. I know many NHS workers and they are great people and work hard all the time not just now.Trying to put politics into the current situation is appaling in my view.Afterwards we can then hold the debate According to some labour supporters, people who voted Brexit are racists, people who voted for Tory government hate NHS and NHS workers. They will keep posting stuff like this linking everything to the election so that they can feel morally and intellectually superior. Let them have some fun." Why would anyone who gives half a fuck about the NHS vote Tory! Come on, we have to stay vaguely within the bounds of reality otherwise what's the point in discussing anything? | |||
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"What the hell of how be voted got to do with how people voted.If you think this is political you have a twisted mind I like it when people are so cross that they can't type. I'm guessing you're suggesting that supporting the NHS is an apolitical matter. However people who voted Tory, voted for a party who has squeezed the health service to near destruction. And for a party who cheered at defeating a bill to give these people a pay rise. So clapping for them hardly makes up for it.This current government is not a passed tory government but even if things where different we could not have been prepared for this virus.I here Italy is meant to have a first class national health service not doing well in this crisis. I know many NHS workers and they are great people and work hard all the time not just now.Trying to put politics into the current situation is appaling in my view.Afterwards we can then hold the debate According to some labour supporters, people who voted Brexit are racists, people who voted for Tory government hate NHS and NHS workers. They will keep posting stuff like this linking everything to the election so that they can feel morally and intellectually superior. Let them have some fun. Why would anyone who gives half a fuck about the NHS vote Tory! Come on, we have to stay vaguely within the bounds of reality otherwise what's the point in discussing anything?" What about the people who actually work in the NHS and vote Tory? My wife and daughter are both frontline and both voted Tory. Amongst us we have many friends who also work in the NHS and also voted Tory. All of these people give a damn sight more than half a fuck for the service they work in and because they actually work in it their voices are the ones that should be heard and listened to. The NHS is not a political football and should never ve used as such. None of the parties have a great record when it comes to funding because politics are played. NHS funding should be taken out of central politics altogether and managed by a cross party council which includes specialists who actually understands how the service works. | |||
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"What the hell of how be voted got to do with how people voted.If you think this is political you have a twisted mind I like it when people are so cross that they can't type. I'm guessing you're suggesting that supporting the NHS is an apolitical matter. However people who voted Tory, voted for a party who has squeezed the health service to near destruction. And for a party who cheered at defeating a bill to give these people a pay rise. So clapping for them hardly makes up for it.This current government is not a passed tory government but even if things where different we could not have been prepared for this virus.I here Italy is meant to have a first class national health service not doing well in this crisis. I know many NHS workers and they are great people and work hard all the time not just now.Trying to put politics into the current situation is appaling in my view.Afterwards we can then hold the debate According to some labour supporters, people who voted Brexit are racists, people who voted for Tory government hate NHS and NHS workers. They will keep posting stuff like this linking everything to the election so that they can feel morally and intellectually superior. Let them have some fun. Why would anyone who gives half a fuck about the NHS vote Tory! Come on, we have to stay vaguely within the bounds of reality otherwise what's the point in discussing anything?" Because the labour party sucks and their manifesto and campaign was a complete carcrash? People knew that Corbyn's version of socialism was a disaster in making? So people had to vote for the lesser if two evils? NHS is not the only factor that plays in people's minds when they vote. There are plenty of other factors. So claiming that any NHS supporter will not vote for Tories is BS. Maybe you should go back and look at which party's actions actually led to the period of austerity. | |||
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"What the hell of how be voted got to do with how people voted.If you think this is political you have a twisted mind I like it when people are so cross that they can't type. I'm guessing you're suggesting that supporting the NHS is an apolitical matter. However people who voted Tory, voted for a party who has squeezed the health service to near destruction. And for a party who cheered at defeating a bill to give these people a pay rise. So clapping for them hardly makes up for it.This current government is not a passed tory government but even if things where different we could not have been prepared for this virus.I here Italy is meant to have a first class national health service not doing well in this crisis. I know many NHS workers and they are great people and work hard all the time not just now.Trying to put politics into the current situation is appaling in my view.Afterwards we can then hold the debate According to some labour supporters, people who voted Brexit are racists, people who voted for Tory government hate NHS and NHS workers. They will keep posting stuff like this linking everything to the election so that they can feel morally and intellectually superior. Let them have some fun. Why would anyone who gives half a fuck about the NHS vote Tory! Come on, we have to stay vaguely within the bounds of reality otherwise what's the point in discussing anything? What about the people who actually work in the NHS and vote Tory? My wife and daughter are both frontline and both voted Tory. Amongst us we have many friends who also work in the NHS and also voted Tory. All of these people give a damn sight more than half a fuck for the service they work in and because they actually work in it their voices are the ones that should be heard and listened to. The NHS is not a political football and should never ve used as such. None of the parties have a great record when it comes to funding because politics are played. NHS funding should be taken out of central politics altogether and managed by a cross party council which includes specialists who actually understands how the service works." Well said. Most of self proclaimed liberals and left wing party supporters these days have this "We know what is good for you" attitude when they actually have no fucking clue. As you mentioned, many people who worked in NHS voted Tory while Labour was screaming that NHS will be destroyed by Tories. Plenty of immigrants voted for Tories while labour party kept calling Tories racist and anti-immigrant  | |||
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"You guys are making a lot of assumptions. Just because people don't want to support a party who cheers at defeating a bill to give NHS workers a pay rise, doesn't mean we're Labour, or Liberals. So I have no explaination for why on earth people vote against their own interests. But it happens all the time. " When they vote Tory, they think they are voting in their own interests. They just don't give a fuck about anyone else's. It seems that what is really boiling the piss of your average Tory voter is the fact that - unlike in the last financial crisis - we really are "all in this together". Their livelihoods are as much at risk as those of the less fortunate, whom they despise; and the only thing keeping them financially afloat (not even secure), is the sort of massive state spending they scream blue murder about if any party but theirs does it. How dare the Party they love spend their hard earned taxes on the good of the whole UK?! Rather than the people who matter, ie. them. And what makes them really angry is that they know, deep down, that they enabled the governments whose policies led to underfunding of the NHS, the loss of over 20,000 full time police officers' jobs and a huge rise in homelessness. They voted for them. Why? Well, it's the Tory way to not give a fuck about any of that, as long as you're paying less council tax than you should be and you're driving a new car. They've been made equal to the rest of us by a virus - and they don't like it. | |||
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"You guys are making a lot of assumptions. Just because people don't want to support a party who cheers at defeating a bill to give NHS workers a pay rise, doesn't mean we're Labour, or Liberals. So I have no explaination for why on earth people vote against their own interests. But it happens all the time. When they vote Tory, they think they are voting in their own interests. They just don't give a fuck about anyone else's. It seems that what is really boiling the piss of your average Tory voter is the fact that - unlike in the last financial crisis - we really are "all in this together". Their livelihoods are as much at risk as those of the less fortunate, whom they despise; and the only thing keeping them financially afloat (not even secure), is the sort of massive state spending they scream blue murder about if any party but theirs does it. How dare the Party they love spend their hard earned taxes on the good of the whole UK?! Rather than the people who matter, ie. them. And what makes them really angry is that they know, deep down, that they enabled the governments whose policies led to underfunding of the NHS, the loss of over 20,000 full time police officers' jobs and a huge rise in homelessness. They voted for them. Why? Well, it's the Tory way to not give a fuck about any of that, as long as you're paying less council tax than you should be and you're driving a new car. They've been made equal to the rest of us by a virus - and they don't like it." What an absolute load of gibberish. Stop pretending that you can analyse every single person that votes Tory. There are many that are great people, there are many that vote for other parties that are nasty. There are many that don't vote at all. They all do it for different reasons. | |||
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"You guys are making a lot of assumptions. Just because people don't want to support a party who cheers at defeating a bill to give NHS workers a pay rise, doesn't mean we're Labour, or Liberals. So I have no explaination for why on earth people vote against their own interests. But it happens all the time. When they vote Tory, they think they are voting in their own interests. They just don't give a fuck about anyone else's. It seems that what is really boiling the piss of your average Tory voter is the fact that - unlike in the last financial crisis - we really are "all in this together". Their livelihoods are as much at risk as those of the less fortunate, whom they despise; and the only thing keeping them financially afloat (not even secure), is the sort of massive state spending they scream blue murder about if any party but theirs does it. How dare the Party they love spend their hard earned taxes on the good of the whole UK?! Rather than the people who matter, ie. them. And what makes them really angry is that they know, deep down, that they enabled the governments whose policies led to underfunding of the NHS, the loss of over 20,000 full time police officers' jobs and a huge rise in homelessness. They voted for them. Why? Well, it's the Tory way to not give a fuck about any of that, as long as you're paying less council tax than you should be and you're driving a new car. They've been made equal to the rest of us by a virus - and they don't like it." I haven't seen any Tory voter complaining about spending money on people who lost jobs because of the virus. In fact everyone is praising the move. The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. | |||
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"The Torys are not the only ones who have under funded the NHS,its been under funded for the last 30 years or so, it's been under funded by labour, a coalition government and Tory, they are all to blame, our population has increased massively in all this time from the baby boom and immigration etc but the money going in has not increased in line with it, but if it makes you all feel better just keep blaming the one party for all our ills." That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? | |||
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"Will HitForSix be replying to the message Exhib12 provided in response to the HitForSix message, “Why would anyone who gives half a fuck about the NHS vote Tory! Come on, we have to stay vaguely within the bounds of reality otherwise what's the point in discussing anything?" ? Exhib12 replied “What about the people who actually work in the NHS and vote Tory? My wife and daughter are both frontline and both voted Tory. Amongst us we have many friends who also work in the NHS and also voted Tory. All of these people give a damn sight more than half a fuck for the service they work in and because they actually work in it their voices are the ones that should be heard and listened to. The NHS is not a political football and should never ve used as such. None of the parties have a great record when it comes to funding because politics are played. NHS funding should be taken out of central politics altogether and managed by a cross party council which includes specialists who actually understands how the service works” " I did reply. Pay attention. I can repeat. I have no clue why people vote against their own interests. | |||
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"The Torys are not the only ones who have under funded the NHS,its been under funded for the last 30 years or so, it's been under funded by labour, a coalition government and Tory, they are all to blame, our population has increased massively in all this time from the baby boom and immigration etc but the money going in has not increased in line with it, but if it makes you all feel better just keep blaming the one party for all our ills." So your argument for not speaking up about how shit the Tories are, is that Labour were bad too? Good hustle. | |||
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"The Torys are not the only ones who have under funded the NHS,its been under funded for the last 30 years or so, it's been under funded by labour, a coalition government and Tory, they are all to blame, our population has increased massively in all this time from the baby boom and immigration etc but the money going in has not increased in line with it, but if it makes you all feel better just keep blaming the one party for all our ills. That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both?" Agree totally, it's not possible for both as the state of the system shows, but there are some on here that will not except that as they seem to think money grows on trees. | |||
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"The Torys are not the only ones who have under funded the NHS,its been under funded for the last 30 years or so, it's been under funded by labour, a coalition government and Tory, they are all to blame, our population has increased massively in all this time from the baby boom and immigration etc but the money going in has not increased in line with it, but if it makes you all feel better just keep blaming the one party for all our ills. So your argument for not speaking up about how shit the Tories are, is that Labour were bad too? Good hustle. " I didn't just say labour or torys I said that all parties are partially to blame if you read my post. They all in there time in government have under funded the system, none of them are any better than the other. | |||
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"The Torys are not the only ones who have under funded the NHS,its been under funded for the last 30 years or so, it's been under funded by labour, a coalition government and Tory, they are all to blame, our population has increased massively in all this time from the baby boom and immigration etc but the money going in has not increased in line with it, but if it makes you all feel better just keep blaming the one party for all our ills. So your argument for not speaking up about how shit the Tories are, is that Labour were bad too? Good hustle. I didn't just say labour or torys I said that all parties are partially to blame if you read my post. They all in there time in government have under funded the system, none of them are any better than the other." oh and not trying to hustle you (don't even get what hell you mean by that but...) or argue with you, I am not defending any one party I am saying they are all responsible for the state of things, you just want to blame one party and I feel that it's not as black an white as that. | |||
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"Will HitForSix be replying to the message Exhib12 provided in response to the HitForSix message, “Why would anyone who gives half a fuck about the NHS vote Tory! Come on, we have to stay vaguely within the bounds of reality otherwise what's the point in discussing anything?" ? Exhib12 replied “What about the people who actually work in the NHS and vote Tory? My wife and daughter are both frontline and both voted Tory. Amongst us we have many friends who also work in the NHS and also voted Tory. All of these people give a damn sight more than half a fuck for the service they work in and because they actually work in it their voices are the ones that should be heard and listened to. The NHS is not a political football and should never ve used as such. None of the parties have a great record when it comes to funding because politics are played. NHS funding should be taken out of central politics altogether and managed by a cross party council which includes specialists who actually understands how the service works” I did reply. Pay attention. I can repeat. I have no clue why people vote against their own interests. " And you would agree that “it’s not a political football and should never be used as such”? | |||
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"Will HitForSix be replying to the message Exhib12 provided in response to the HitForSix message, “Why would anyone who gives half a fuck about the NHS vote Tory! Come on, we have to stay vaguely within the bounds of reality otherwise what's the point in discussing anything?" ? Exhib12 replied “What about the people who actually work in the NHS and vote Tory? My wife and daughter are both frontline and both voted Tory. Amongst us we have many friends who also work in the NHS and also voted Tory. All of these people give a damn sight more than half a fuck for the service they work in and because they actually work in it their voices are the ones that should be heard and listened to. The NHS is not a political football and should never ve used as such. None of the parties have a great record when it comes to funding because politics are played. NHS funding should be taken out of central politics altogether and managed by a cross party council which includes specialists who actually understands how the service works” I did reply. Pay attention. I can repeat. I have no clue why people vote against their own interests. And you would agree that “it’s not a political football and should never be used as such”?" Well all parties use it as a political football, all the time. The NHS is inherently a part of politics. The way it's funded and managed should be discussed and debated. It is part of one of the many reasons I would not vote Tory. | |||
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"The Torys are not the only ones who have under funded the NHS,its been under funded for the last 30 years or so, it's been under funded by labour, a coalition government and Tory, they are all to blame, our population has increased massively in all this time from the baby boom and immigration etc but the money going in has not increased in line with it, but if it makes you all feel better just keep blaming the one party for all our ills. So your argument for not speaking up about how shit the Tories are, is that Labour were bad too? Good hustle. I didn't just say labour or torys I said that all parties are partially to blame if you read my post. They all in there time in government have under funded the system, none of them are any better than the other.oh and not trying to hustle you (don't even get what hell you mean by that but...) or argue with you, I am not defending any one party I am saying they are all responsible for the state of things, you just want to blame one party and I feel that it's not as black an white as that." True. But one party has been in power for the last ten years. So I think it's fair to be able to criticise them on this. | |||
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"According to some labour supporters, people who voted Brexit are racists, people who voted for Tory government hate NHS and NHS workers. They will keep posting stuff like this linking everything to the election so that they can feel morally and intellectually superior. Let them have some fun." ******************** | |||
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"The Torys are not the only ones who have under funded the NHS,its been under funded for the last 30 years or so, it's been under funded by labour, a coalition government and Tory, they are all to blame, our population has increased massively in all this time from the baby boom and immigration etc but the money going in has not increased in line with it, but if it makes you all feel better just keep blaming the one party for all our ills. So your argument for not speaking up about how shit the Tories are, is that Labour were bad too? Good hustle. I didn't just say labour or torys I said that all parties are partially to blame if you read my post. They all in there time in government have under funded the system, none of them are any better than the other.oh and not trying to hustle you (don't even get what hell you mean by that but...) or argue with you, I am not defending any one party I am saying they are all responsible for the state of things, you just want to blame one party and I feel that it's not as black an white as that. True. But one party has been in power for the last ten years. So I think it's fair to be able to criticise them on this." Fair to criticise the party, and also criticise the people who vote for them and call them out as hypocrites? | |||
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"The Torys are not the only ones who have under funded the NHS,its been under funded for the last 30 years or so, it's been under funded by labour, a coalition government and Tory, they are all to blame, our population has increased massively in all this time from the baby boom and immigration etc but the money going in has not increased in line with it, but if it makes you all feel better just keep blaming the one party for all our ills. So your argument for not speaking up about how shit the Tories are, is that Labour were bad too? Good hustle. I didn't just say labour or torys I said that all parties are partially to blame if you read my post. They all in there time in government have under funded the system, none of them are any better than the other.oh and not trying to hustle you (don't even get what hell you mean by that but...) or argue with you, I am not defending any one party I am saying they are all responsible for the state of things, you just want to blame one party and I feel that it's not as black an white as that. True. But one party has been in power for the last ten years. So I think it's fair to be able to criticise them on this." yes one party has for the last 10 years but the underfunding that has occurred in the NHS has not only happened just in the last 10 yrs it goes back a lot further than that so thay all should be criticised shouldn't they? | |||
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"You guys are making a lot of assumptions. Just because people don't want to support a party who cheers at defeating a bill to give NHS workers a pay rise, doesn't mean we're Labour, or Liberals. So I have no explaination for why on earth people vote against their own interests. But it happens all the time. When they vote Tory, they think they are voting in their own interests. They just don't give a fuck about anyone else's. It seems that what is really boiling the piss of your average Tory voter is the fact that - unlike in the last financial crisis - we really are "all in this together". Their livelihoods are as much at risk as those of the less fortunate, whom they despise; and the only thing keeping them financially afloat (not even secure), is the sort of massive state spending they scream blue murder about if any party but theirs does it. How dare the Party they love spend their hard earned taxes on the good of the whole UK?! Rather than the people who matter, ie. them. And what makes them really angry is that they know, deep down, that they enabled the governments whose policies led to underfunding of the NHS, the loss of over 20,000 full time police officers' jobs and a huge rise in homelessness. They voted for them. Why? Well, it's the Tory way to not give a fuck about any of that, as long as you're paying less council tax than you should be and you're driving a new car. They've been made equal to the rest of us by a virus - and they don't like it. What an absolute load of gibberish. Stop pretending that you can analyse every single person that votes Tory. There are many that are great people, there are many that vote for other parties that are nasty. There are many that don't vote at all. They all do it for different reasons. " She never said "every single person that votes Tory". She said "the *average* Tory voter". And she is spot on. | |||
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" (...) The NHS is not a political football and should never ve used as such. None of the parties have a great record when it comes to funding because politics are played. NHS funding should be taken out of central politics altogether and managed by a cross party council which includes specialists who actually understands how the service works." While I agree with your ultimate suggestion, I can't understand why you (and other people) say that NHS is not or should not be political football. Why not?! As things currently stand, every government is responsible for running the country. This *includes* the NHS, along with everything else. So why leave the NHS out when it comes to criticising a government's record/actions? *They* are the ones in charge!!! Until things change, there's *no one else* to criticise when it comes to how the NHS is run *but* the government (current and past ones, as well as each party's record). | |||
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" (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees." I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. " (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both?" Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? | |||
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"You guys are making a lot of assumptions. Just because people don't want to support a party who cheers at defeating a bill to give NHS workers a pay rise, doesn't mean we're Labour, or Liberals. So I have no explaination for why on earth people vote against their own interests. But it happens all the time. When they vote Tory, they think they are voting in their own interests. They just don't give a fuck about anyone else's. It seems that what is really boiling the piss of your average Tory voter is the fact that - unlike in the last financial crisis - we really are "all in this together". Their livelihoods are as much at risk as those of the less fortunate, whom they despise; and the only thing keeping them financially afloat (not even secure), is the sort of massive state spending they scream blue murder about if any party but theirs does it. How dare the Party they love spend their hard earned taxes on the good of the whole UK?! Rather than the people who matter, ie. them. And what makes them really angry is that they know, deep down, that they enabled the governments whose policies led to underfunding of the NHS, the loss of over 20,000 full time police officers' jobs and a huge rise in homelessness. They voted for them. Why? Well, it's the Tory way to not give a fuck about any of that, as long as you're paying less council tax than you should be and you're driving a new car. They've been made equal to the rest of us by a virus - and they don't like it." What a load of twisted wharped carbage | |||
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" (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? " think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. | |||
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" (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying." Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration". | |||
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" (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration"." Ah stop listening to Nigel Farage or the Daily mail. That will solve all your issues around "uncontrolled immigration". | |||
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" (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration". Ah stop listening to Nigel Farage or the Daily mail. That will solve all your issues around "uncontrolled immigration"." Yet another left wing genius who claims to know what I read | |||
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" (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration". Ah stop listening to Nigel Farage or the Daily mail. That will solve all your issues around "uncontrolled immigration". Yet another left wing genius who claims to know what I read "Feel free to let us know what "sources" you get your info from. Also, not everyone who can think for themselves and who doesn't believe the anti immigration bollocks is "left wing". We're from all over the political spectrum. | |||
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" (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration". Ah stop listening to Nigel Farage or the Daily mail. That will solve all your issues around "uncontrolled immigration". Yet another left wing genius who claims to know what I read
Feel free to let us know what "sources" you get your info from.
Also, not everyone who can think for themselves and who doesn't believe the anti immigration bollocks is "left wing". We're from all over the political spectrum."Sources? Isn't that just common sense? You have a medical system to handle X number of people. You open up immigration for everyone and Y number of people come in suddenly. How could the medical system handle the new set of people? Is there a single country that actually has uncontrolled immigration? | |||
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" (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration". Ah stop listening to Nigel Farage or the Daily mail. That will solve all your issues around "uncontrolled immigration". Yet another left wing genius who claims to know what I read
Feel free to let us know what "sources" you get your info from.
Also, not everyone who can think for themselves and who doesn't believe the anti immigration bollocks is "left wing". We're from all over the political spectrum.
Sources? Isn't that just common sense?
You have a medical system to handle X number of people. You open up immigration for everyone and Y number of people come in suddenly. How could the medical system handle the new set of people?
Is there a single country that actually has uncontrolled immigration? "Lol. I can only assume you're being deliberately awkward. No one is this ignorant. 1. Immigration isn't opened up to everyone. 2. Immigrants have a net positive impact on the economy, taxes, and hence funding for the NHS. You're welcome. | |||
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" (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration". Ah stop listening to Nigel Farage or the Daily mail. That will solve all your issues around "uncontrolled immigration". Yet another left wing genius who claims to know what I read
Feel free to let us know what "sources" you get your info from.
Also, not everyone who can think for themselves and who doesn't believe the anti immigration bollocks is "left wing". We're from all over the political spectrum.
Sources? Isn't that just common sense?
You have a medical system to handle X number of people. You open up immigration for everyone and Y number of people come in suddenly. How could the medical system handle the new set of people?
Is there a single country that actually has uncontrolled immigration?
Lol. I can only assume you're being deliberately awkward. No one is this ignorant.
1. Immigration isn't opened up to everyone.
2. Immigrants have a net positive impact on the economy, taxes, and hence funding for the NHS.
You're welcome. "You are the one deliberately being blind. Maybe scroll back up and understand the conversation before commenting? I said that there are some people who want "uncontrolled immigration" and also a good functioning NHS. I am not saying that it is the existing state of matters. So your first point doesn't make any sense. Regarding your second point, whose ass did you pull that fact from? There are multiple factors to it. Skilled immigration, unskilled immigration, refugees etc. Again, if immigration is uncontrolled, how can you maintain that net gain? There is a reason why, not a single country has uncontrolled immigration. | |||
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" (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration". Ah stop listening to Nigel Farage or the Daily mail. That will solve all your issues around "uncontrolled immigration". Yet another left wing genius who claims to know what I read
Feel free to let us know what "sources" you get your info from.
Also, not everyone who can think for themselves and who doesn't believe the anti immigration bollocks is "left wing". We're from all over the political spectrum.
Sources? Isn't that just common sense?
You have a medical system to handle X number of people. You open up immigration for everyone and Y number of people come in suddenly. How could the medical system handle the new set of people?
Is there a single country that actually has uncontrolled immigration?
Lol. I can only assume you're being deliberately awkward. No one is this ignorant.
1. Immigration isn't opened up to everyone.
2. Immigrants have a net positive impact on the economy, taxes, and hence funding for the NHS.
You're welcome.
You are the one deliberately being blind. Maybe scroll back up and understand the conversation before commenting?
I said that there are some people who want "uncontrolled immigration" and also a good functioning NHS. I am not saying that it is the existing state of matters. So your first point doesn't make any sense.
Regarding your second point, whose ass did you pull that fact from? There are multiple factors to it. Skilled immigration, unskilled immigration, refugees etc. Again, if immigration is uncontrolled, how can you maintain that net gain? There is a reason why, not a single country has uncontrolled immigration."No one is calling for uncontrolled immigration. I'm just making fun of you for believing that it's a thing people want. | |||
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" (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration". Ah stop listening to Nigel Farage or the Daily mail. That will solve all your issues around "uncontrolled immigration". Yet another left wing genius who claims to know what I read
Feel free to let us know what "sources" you get your info from.
Also, not everyone who can think for themselves and who doesn't believe the anti immigration bollocks is "left wing". We're from all over the political spectrum.
Sources? Isn't that just common sense?
You have a medical system to handle X number of people. You open up immigration for everyone and Y number of people come in suddenly. How could the medical system handle the new set of people?
Is there a single country that actually has uncontrolled immigration?
Lol. I can only assume you're being deliberately awkward. No one is this ignorant.
1. Immigration isn't opened up to everyone.
2. Immigrants have a net positive impact on the economy, taxes, and hence funding for the NHS.
You're welcome.
You are the one deliberately being blind. Maybe scroll back up and understand the conversation before commenting?
I said that there are some people who want "uncontrolled immigration" and also a good functioning NHS. I am not saying that it is the existing state of matters. So your first point doesn't make any sense.
Regarding your second point, whose ass did you pull that fact from? There are multiple factors to it. Skilled immigration, unskilled immigration, refugees etc. Again, if immigration is uncontrolled, how can you maintain that net gain? There is a reason why, not a single country has uncontrolled immigration.
No one is calling for uncontrolled immigration.
I'm just making fun of you for believing that it's a thing people want. "Again. How do you know no one is calling for it? I personally know plenty of people who advocate open borders for everyone. Just because you didn't see a person like that, it doesn't mean it is true. Get out of that "I know everything" mindset. | |||
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" (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration". Ah stop listening to Nigel Farage or the Daily mail. That will solve all your issues around "uncontrolled immigration". Yet another left wing genius who claims to know what I read
Feel free to let us know what "sources" you get your info from.
Also, not everyone who can think for themselves and who doesn't believe the anti immigration bollocks is "left wing". We're from all over the political spectrum.
Sources? Isn't that just common sense?
You have a medical system to handle X number of people. You open up immigration for everyone and Y number of people come in suddenly. How could the medical system handle the new set of people?
Is there a single country that actually has uncontrolled immigration?
Lol. I can only assume you're being deliberately awkward. No one is this ignorant.
1. Immigration isn't opened up to everyone.
2. Immigrants have a net positive impact on the economy, taxes, and hence funding for the NHS.
You're welcome.
You are the one deliberately being blind. Maybe scroll back up and understand the conversation before commenting?
I said that there are some people who want "uncontrolled immigration" and also a good functioning NHS. I am not saying that it is the existing state of matters. So your first point doesn't make any sense.
Regarding your second point, whose ass did you pull that fact from? There are multiple factors to it. Skilled immigration, unskilled immigration, refugees etc. Again, if immigration is uncontrolled, how can you maintain that net gain? There is a reason why, not a single country has uncontrolled immigration.
No one is calling for uncontrolled immigration.
I'm just making fun of you for believing that it's a thing people want.
Again. How do you know no one is calling for it? I personally know plenty of people who advocate open borders for everyone. Just because you didn't see a person like that, it doesn't mean it is true. Get out of that "I know everything" mindset."Yawn. So you be the "I know everything" person then. I'm only poking fun. No one is going to change their mind on an internet argument. Back to the point. Tories clapping and cheering for the NHS.  | |||
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" think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying." I didn't have the wrong end of the stick at all. I got the reference about ageing population in the active/inactive comment but, in the same breath, you said that uncontrolled immigration* and a strong NHS are, in effect, mutually exclusive. Why exactly is that? If they pay their taxes, what makes them any different in contributing to the system than your average Brit? * which VERY few people are advocating btw, but it suits your narrative better to only put "immigration" next to "uncontrolled", as if everyone who is pro-immigration wants open borders. You don't like the generalisation/accusation that Tories/Brexiteers are racists/xenophobes, yet you're quite happy to apply similar generalisations to others. " (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration"." Are they all coming in overnight then? If there was a Brit baby boom and next year we had 10 million babies born (which would *not* pay into the system for 18 years after that - compared to the immigrants who pay almost immediately *plus*, on many occasions have to *actually* pay to use the NHS), how is that "better"/more sustainable than the "invasion" you're worried about? | |||
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" think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. I didn't have the wrong end of the stick at all. I got the reference about ageing population in the active/inactive comment but, in the same breath, you said that uncontrolled immigration* and a strong NHS are, in effect, mutually exclusive. Why exactly is that? If they pay their taxes, what makes them any different in contributing to the system than your average Brit? * which VERY few people are advocating btw, but it suits your narrative better to only put "immigration" next to "uncontrolled", as if everyone who is pro-immigration wants open borders. You don't like the generalisation/accusation that Tories/Brexiteers are racists/xenophobes, yet you're quite happy to apply similar generalisations to others. (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration". Are they all coming in overnight then? If there was a Brit baby boom and next year we had 10 million babies born (which would *not* pay into the system for 18 years after that - compared to the immigrants who pay almost immediately *plus*, on many occasions have to *actually* pay to use the NHS), how is that "better"/more sustainable than the "invasion" you're worried about?" you have the wrong op I didn't say about uncontrolled immigration in my original post all thanks. | |||
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" think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. I didn't have the wrong end of the stick at all. I got the reference about ageing population in the active/inactive comment but, in the same breath, you said that uncontrolled immigration* and a strong NHS are, in effect, mutually exclusive. Why exactly is that? If they pay their taxes, what makes them any different in contributing to the system than your average Brit? * which VERY few people are advocating btw, but it suits your narrative better to only put "immigration" next to "uncontrolled", as if everyone who is pro-immigration wants open borders. You don't like the generalisation/accusation that Tories/Brexiteers are racists/xenophobes, yet you're quite happy to apply similar generalisations to others. (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration". Are they all coming in overnight then? If there was a Brit baby boom and next year we had 10 million babies born (which would *not* pay into the system for 18 years after that - compared to the immigrants who pay almost immediately *plus*, on many occasions have to *actually* pay to use the NHS), how is that "better"/more sustainable than the "invasion" you're worried about?" What's wrong with you people? How hard is it to actually read a post instead of getting all hyperbolic by just picking and choosing the words which I said. I said "There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and a strong NHS". Did I say anywhere many people are advocating? Did I generalise it as you were mentioning? And about things happening overnight. There could be plenty of things that could cause sudden migration of people. Remember the 2016 refugee crisis? It is humanitarian and kind to take them all in. But it also means that you are sharing what you have with them. Obviously your share of social welfare will go down. For a modern example, just look at Greece and Turkey border problem. Greece is using the army to keep the refugees out. Turkey has encouraged everyone to go to Greece to make political gains. Such events can occur anytime. If some country's economy collapses, there will be mass migrations to other countries. The humanitarian aspect is great. But as I said, it is only logical for social welfare to take a hit. Regarding tax, when you have uncontrolled immigration, not all the people who are coming in are going to be skilled. So "if they pay taxes" is a very big if. Many of them are fleeing their countries for war. Do you expect them all to have a degree and work experience? It is upto the country that takes them to teach them skills to work and then get them to work and then expect taxes. Again, good humanitarian aspect. But it comes at a cost and you should be willing to take it. As someone said above, money doesn't grow on trees. Regarding 10 million British babies, that is what doesn't happen overnight. Low birth rate about 20/30 years back is what caused a bigger ageing population in developed European countries. It is only getting worse. If such a thing really happens, I would expect the government to discourage having too many babies. It has already happened in many countries. India being a democracy tries to teach people about problems of having too many babies. You can see slogans and posters about importance of birth control everywhere. It even gives money to women under poverty line who undergo family planning. China being China just made it a law. Only recently, it relaxed. So yes, 10 million Brit babies are not going to happen suddenly. If it does happen, I will be the first one to point out that this was a leading cause. I am neither left wing nor right wing. That gives me the ability to not get emotional and criticise both sides for the mistakes they make. "Invasion?" Did I use that word ever? You are using these kind of words because you have assumed that I belong to far right just because I defended the Brexiteers and used the word immigration. Stop reading too much guardian or daily mail. My view is just that both left and right have a point. One is about humanitarianism and the other is about practicality. Maybe if people stop judging each other as a person based on their political views and talk openly, it will lead to a much better understanding of their views and much less hyperbole. This is a criticism I have about modern British culture or developed countries in general. I see political views affecting lots of inter-personal relationships. Back in India, I have friends from far left to far right. We all get together, have drinks, argue about political issues for hours. It always ends with "fuck them all" and we are back to being good friends. The UK could do well to learn this from developing countries. | |||
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"Ah the tolerant left politicising a tragedy for a change. Can’t help yourselves can you? " You're right. We should all shut up and just accept that things are shit and stop speaking out. We should celebrate the Tories grinding down the NHS and contributing to making life more difficult for nurses and healthcare works. And futhermore we should put down and insult any "left" people for even daring to speak at all. | |||
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"Ah the tolerant left politicising a tragedy for a change. Can’t help yourselves can you? You're right. We should all shut up and just accept that things are shit and stop speaking out. We should celebrate the Tories grinding down the NHS and contributing to making life more difficult for nurses and healthcare works. And futhermore we should put down and insult any "left" people for even daring to speak at all. " Instead of whinging about it, exercise political force and vote against them in the next general election. And if you lose catastrophically again, take it on the chin like a man and accept your arguments weren’t good enough instead of screaming into the wind like a baby. Until you do that you’re just white noise to anyone that just wants to get on with their lives. | |||
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"Ah the tolerant left politicising a tragedy for a change. Can’t help yourselves can you? You're right. We should all shut up and just accept that things are shit and stop speaking out. We should celebrate the Tories grinding down the NHS and contributing to making life more difficult for nurses and healthcare works. And futhermore we should put down and insult any "left" people for even daring to speak at all. Instead of whinging about it, exercise political force and vote against them in the next general election. And if you lose catastrophically again, take it on the chin like a man and accept your arguments weren’t good enough instead of screaming into the wind like a baby. Until you do that you’re just white noise to anyone that just wants to get on with their lives. " Absolutely. Let's all be silent. | |||
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"Ah the tolerant left politicising a tragedy for a change. Can’t help yourselves can you? You're right. We should all shut up and just accept that things are shit and stop speaking out. We should celebrate the Tories grinding down the NHS and contributing to making life more difficult for nurses and healthcare works. And futhermore we should put down and insult any "left" people for even daring to speak at all. Instead of whinging about it, exercise political force and vote against them in the next general election. And if you lose catastrophically again, take it on the chin like a man and accept your arguments weren’t good enough instead of screaming into the wind like a baby. Until you do that you’re just white noise to anyone that just wants to get on with their lives. " couldnt have put it better. | |||
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"Ah the tolerant left politicising a tragedy for a change. Can’t help yourselves can you? You're right. We should all shut up and just accept that things are shit and stop speaking out. We should celebrate the Tories grinding down the NHS and contributing to making life more difficult for nurses and healthcare works. And futhermore we should put down and insult any "left" people for even daring to speak at all. Instead of whinging about it, exercise political force and vote against them in the next general election. And if you lose catastrophically again, take it on the chin like a man and accept your arguments weren’t good enough instead of screaming into the wind like a baby. Until you do that you’re just white noise to anyone that just wants to get on with their lives. Absolutely. Let's all be silent. " That would be preferable | |||
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"Says it all really. Comply, of shut up. Welcome to Britain 2020. Any form of dissent is to be stamped out. " Dissent? The lefts politics permeate absolutely everything in modern western civilisation. Academia, arts, media...you’re not the dissenter here. It’s laughable you’d even think that You get your chance at the next general election. Unless you lot dramatically change your tune and actually appeal to the masses and what they want, you’re never going to win. Bitching about it incessantly in between elections just pisses more and more people off, and calling people who disagree with you thick or racist doesn’t work anymore. Good fortune in all the wars to come. You’re gonna need it  | |||
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"Says it all really. Comply, of shut up. Welcome to Britain 2020. Any form of dissent is to be stamped out. Dissent? The lefts politics permeate absolutely everything in modern western civilisation. Academia, arts, media...you’re not the dissenter here. It’s laughable you’d even think that You get your chance at the next general election. Unless you lot dramatically change your tune and actually appeal to the masses and what they want, you’re never going to win. Bitching about it incessantly in between elections just pisses more and more people off, and calling people who disagree with you thick or racist doesn’t work anymore. Good fortune in all the wars to come. You’re gonna need it "Lol. This is the ramblings of a confused man. Not everyone who wants to speak up about the bullshit forced on us is "left". We're from all over the political spectrum. I haven't called anyone thick or racist. You've just made that up. Aside from shut up and swallow the shit you're fed by the system, I don't know what your point is that you think I'm disagreeing with. You don't seem to be making any. Look. If you're happy with accepting the bullshit you're fed fine. But taking it a step further and trying to shit on anyone who wants to think for themselves is just silly. Making fun of your ignorance is getting boring. Have a good day. | |||
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"Says it all really. Comply, of shut up. Welcome to Britain 2020. Any form of dissent is to be stamped out. Dissent? The lefts politics permeate absolutely everything in modern western civilisation. Academia, arts, media...you’re not the dissenter here. It’s laughable you’d even think that You get your chance at the next general election. Unless you lot dramatically change your tune and actually appeal to the masses and what they want, you’re never going to win. Bitching about it incessantly in between elections just pisses more and more people off, and calling people who disagree with you thick or racist doesn’t work anymore. Good fortune in all the wars to come. You’re gonna need it
Lol. This is the ramblings of a confused man.
Not everyone who wants to speak up about the bullshit forced on us is "left". We're from all over the political spectrum.
I haven't called anyone thick or racist. You've just made that up. Aside from shut up and swallow the shit you're fed by the system, I don't know what your point is that you think I'm disagreeing with. You don't seem to be making any.
Look. If you're happy with accepting the bullshit you're fed fine. But taking it a step further and trying to shit on anyone who wants to think for themselves is just silly.
Making fun of your ignorance is getting boring. Have a good day."I’m not a man. I didn’t say you were calling anyone racist or thick. I was making a general point about the insufferable moaning people like you latch on to and flail around. It’s in my insta feed, my Facebook feed and now on Fab. You’re not thinking for yourself. You're parroting the angry shite I read in the independent and the guardian. Nobody’s forcing anything on you. You are ‘the system’ because there’s nothing remotely unique or insightful that you’ve written here. So yeah, I shit all over your opinions. | |||
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"Says it all really. Comply, of shut up. Welcome to Britain 2020. Any form of dissent is to be stamped out. Dissent? The lefts politics permeate absolutely everything in modern western civilisation. Academia, arts, media...you’re not the dissenter here. It’s laughable you’d even think that You get your chance at the next general election. Unless you lot dramatically change your tune and actually appeal to the masses and what they want, you’re never going to win. Bitching about it incessantly in between elections just pisses more and more people off, and calling people who disagree with you thick or racist doesn’t work anymore. Good fortune in all the wars to come. You’re gonna need it
Lol. This is the ramblings of a confused man.
Not everyone who wants to speak up about the bullshit forced on us is "left". We're from all over the political spectrum.
I haven't called anyone thick or racist. You've just made that up. Aside from shut up and swallow the shit you're fed by the system, I don't know what your point is that you think I'm disagreeing with. You don't seem to be making any.
Look. If you're happy with accepting the bullshit you're fed fine. But taking it a step further and trying to shit on anyone who wants to think for themselves is just silly.
Making fun of your ignorance is getting boring. Have a good day.
I’m not a man.
I didn’t say you were calling anyone racist or thick. I was making a general point about the insufferable moaning people like you latch on to and flail around. It’s in my insta feed, my Facebook feed and now on Fab.
You’re not thinking for yourself. You're parroting the angry shite I read in the independent and the guardian. Nobody’s forcing anything on you. You are ‘the system’ because there’s nothing remotely unique or insightful that you’ve written here. So yeah, I shit all over your opinions.
"Try listening to some of the less hateful people in your social media feeds then. See if you can try empathising with other humans. Maybe you'll see the world in a different light. | |||
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"Ah the tolerant left politicising a tragedy for a change. Can’t help yourselves can you? You're right. We should all shut up and just accept that things are shit and stop speaking out. We should celebrate the Tories grinding down the NHS and contributing to making life more difficult for nurses and healthcare works. And futhermore we should put down and insult any "left" people for even daring to speak at all. " ah the tirys grinding down the nhs. no mention of labour under blair saddling the nhs with debt that will take decades to pay back.ih and wasnt RLB helping to rught all those contracts but lets just blame the torys for everything thats wrong with the nhs.truth is no matter whis in power none of them fund anything properly.will now sit here and wait to be told but it wasnt real labour who done that lol | |||
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"Ah the tolerant left politicising a tragedy for a change. Can’t help yourselves can you? You're right. We should all shut up and just accept that things are shit and stop speaking out. We should celebrate the Tories grinding down the NHS and contributing to making life more difficult for nurses and healthcare works. And futhermore we should put down and insult any "left" people for even daring to speak at all. ah the tirys grinding down the nhs. no mention of labour under blair saddling the nhs with debt that will take decades to pay back.ih and wasnt RLB helping to rught all those contracts but lets just blame the torys for everything thats wrong with the nhs.truth is no matter whis in power none of them fund anything properly.will now sit here and wait to be told but it wasnt real labour who done that lol" Fine. Deflect to Labour. I am more than happy to criticise them too. We've had ten years or Conservatives. And they should be open to critisism on their treatment of the NHS. | |||
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" think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. I didn't have the wrong end of the stick at all. I got the reference about ageing population in the active/inactive comment but, in the same breath, you said that uncontrolled immigration* and a strong NHS are, in effect, mutually exclusive. Why exactly is that? If they pay their taxes, what makes them any different in contributing to the system than your average Brit? * which VERY few people are advocating btw, but it suits your narrative better to only put "immigration" next to "uncontrolled", as if everyone who is pro-immigration wants open borders. You don't like the generalisation/accusation that Tories/Brexiteers are racists/xenophobes, yet you're quite happy to apply similar generalisations to others. (...) The only person crying is Corbyn who claims that the government should be giving money to everyone all the time when there is no source for the money. At the risk of sounding elderly, someone must tell him that money doesn't grow on trees. I think that someone has indeed told him that money *does* grow on trees and I'm guessing it was Rishi Sunak while he was giving him a tour around his secret orchard that seems to be full of magic money trees all of a sudden. (...) That's the point. One factor is demographic change. Active vs inactive population ratio has gone down which leads to less tax means less fund for NHS. There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and also a strong NHS. How can a single government achieve both? Um...so immigrants, in your mind, are "inactive" population? They don't pay into the system like the rest do? think you have the wrong of the stick, the bit about "inactive and active population change was in reference to a ageing population, uncontrolled immigration was mentioned but only in the context of a larger population using the NHS, nothing to do with racism which is what you are implying. Exactly. When you suddenly take so many people in, it is hard for social welfare systems to adapt to it immediately. That's why I said "uncontrolled immigration". Are they all coming in overnight then? If there was a Brit baby boom and next year we had 10 million babies born (which would *not* pay into the system for 18 years after that - compared to the immigrants who pay almost immediately *plus*, on many occasions have to *actually* pay to use the NHS), how is that "better"/more sustainable than the "invasion" you're worried about?you have the wrong op I didn't say about uncontrolled immigration in my original post all thanks." Indeed you didn't. But a) you replied to my reply to him and b) your initial reply to him was "I agree completely..." so, whether you said it or not, the fact that you agree with it means that you're of the same opinion. | |||
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"Says it all really. Comply, of shut up. Welcome to Britain 2020. Any form of dissent is to be stamped out. " Shhhh... Anyone who doesn't praise or who dares to criticise the Supreme Leader and his army of "yes" men, shall be branded a "traitor" and be dealt with accordingly. It's not as if we live in a democracy, where people are free to express discontent, amongst other things. Plus, the way to "deal with" opposing views to your own is not to filter them out or choose to ignore them but to "encourage" the gagging of the voices who speak them because, to you, they're nothing but "noise", aka not as equally valuable/important as yours and, furthermore, because your right to express your views automatically negates the right of anyone with an opposing view to express his. So...Shhhh... | |||
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" (...) What's wrong with you people? How hard is it to actually read a post instead of getting all hyperbolic by just picking and choosing the words which I said. I said "There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and a strong NHS". Did I say anywhere many people are advocating? Did I generalise it as you were mentioning? " Most of the time, it's what we *don't* say that makes all the difference. "And about things happening overnight. There could be plenty of things that could cause sudden migration of people. Remember the 2016 refugee crisis? It is humanitarian and kind to take them all in. But it also means that you are sharing what you have with them. Obviously your share of social welfare will go down. For a modern example, just look at Greece and Turkey border problem. Greece is using the army to keep the refugees out. Turkey has encouraged everyone to go to Greece to make political gains. Such events can occur anytime. If some country's economy collapses, there will be mass migrations to other countries. The humanitarian aspect is great. But as I said, it is only logical for social welfare to take a hit. Regarding tax, when you have uncontrolled immigration, not all the people who are coming in are going to be skilled. So "if they pay taxes" is a very big if. Many of them are fleeing their countries for war. Do you expect them all to have a degree and work experience? It is upto the country that takes them to teach them skills to work and then get them to work and then expect taxes. Again, good humanitarian aspect. But it comes at a cost and you should be willing to take it. As someone said above, money doesn't grow on trees." First off, you're confusing/conflating "immigrants" with "refugees". Secondly, even in/for the "uncontrolled" immigration there *are* rules/controls. So the "uncontrolled" branding of it, is simply to sensionalise it and paint it as something not regulated. " Regarding 10 million British babies, that is what doesn't happen overnight. Low birth rate about 20/30 years back is what caused a bigger ageing population in developed European countries. It is only getting worse. If such a thing really happens, I would expect the government to discourage having too many babies. It has already happened in many countries. India being a democracy tries to teach people about problems of having too many babies. You can see slogans and posters about importance of birth control everywhere. It even gives money to women under poverty line who undergo family planning. China being China just made it a law. Only recently, it relaxed. So yes, 10 million Brit babies are not going to happen suddenly. If it does happen, I will be the first one to point out that this was a leading cause. (...) " I know it's not going to happen. I used it as an example/comparison regarding sudden increasing population. ""Invasion?" Did I use that word ever? You are using these kind of words because you have assumed that I belong to far right just because I defended the Brexiteers and used the word immigration. Stop reading too much guardian or daily mail. (...)" Did I say that you did? In fact, you *know* that I didn't say that you did because in your very next sentence you acknowledge that it was *I* that used it. Please don't assume what *I* assumed (or what I'm reading for that matter) | |||
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" (...) What's wrong with you people? How hard is it to actually read a post instead of getting all hyperbolic by just picking and choosing the words which I said. I said "There are people who want uncontrolled immigration and a strong NHS". Did I say anywhere many people are advocating? Did I generalise it as you were mentioning? Most of the time, it's what we *don't* say that makes all the difference. And about things happening overnight. There could be plenty of things that could cause sudden migration of people. Remember the 2016 refugee crisis? It is humanitarian and kind to take them all in. But it also means that you are sharing what you have with them. Obviously your share of social welfare will go down. For a modern example, just look at Greece and Turkey border problem. Greece is using the army to keep the refugees out. Turkey has encouraged everyone to go to Greece to make political gains. Such events can occur anytime. If some country's economy collapses, there will be mass migrations to other countries. The humanitarian aspect is great. But as I said, it is only logical for social welfare to take a hit. Regarding tax, when you have uncontrolled immigration, not all the people who are coming in are going to be skilled. So "if they pay taxes" is a very big if. Many of them are fleeing their countries for war. Do you expect them all to have a degree and work experience? It is upto the country that takes them to teach them skills to work and then get them to work and then expect taxes. Again, good humanitarian aspect. But it comes at a cost and you should be willing to take it. As someone said above, money doesn't grow on trees. First off, you're confusing/conflating "immigrants" with "refugees". Secondly, even in/for the "uncontrolled" immigration there *are* rules/controls. So the "uncontrolled" branding of it, is simply to sensionalise it and paint it as something not regulated. Regarding 10 million British babies, that is what doesn't happen overnight. Low birth rate about 20/30 years back is what caused a bigger ageing population in developed European countries. It is only getting worse. If such a thing really happens, I would expect the government to discourage having too many babies. It has already happened in many countries. India being a democracy tries to teach people about problems of having too many babies. You can see slogans and posters about importance of birth control everywhere. It even gives money to women under poverty line who undergo family planning. China being China just made it a law. Only recently, it relaxed. So yes, 10 million Brit babies are not going to happen suddenly. If it does happen, I will be the first one to point out that this was a leading cause. (...) I know it's not going to happen. I used it as an example/comparison regarding sudden increasing population. "Invasion?" Did I use that word ever? You are using these kind of words because you have assumed that I belong to far right just because I defended the Brexiteers and used the word immigration. Stop reading too much guardian or daily mail. (...) Did I say that you did? In fact, you *know* that I didn't say that you did because in your very next sentence you acknowledge that it was *I* that used it. Please don't assume what *I* assumed (or what I'm reading for that matter) "Ok. So you assumed what I had in mind because what we "don't" say makes all the difference and you know read my mind. If it is uncontrolled immigration, how does it come with rules? Maybe we are not talking about the same thing? And I didn't say that uncontrolled immigration already exists. I said that there are people advocating for it. How is that sensationalism? The original post I made had hardly 4 lines. How hard is it to read every word out of it and then respond instead of rushing into conclusion and getting all emotional about it? | |||
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"Considering that NHS felt the pain of the conservatives’ austerity measures as much as our other services, was it hypocritical for tories and their voters to clap tonight or was it an acknowledgement of how important the NHS is? Not a statement or dig but a question as I’m wondering. " Thinly veiled dig and nothing more | |||
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"3 weeks ago we apparently were going to spread it by herd spreading so we all become immune wtf Slammed by the lancet https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-could-have-prevented-chaos-and-panic-says-lancet-editor-11964955" And yet the very same Richard Horton, who had a performance on last weeks QT was saying at the end of January, “A call for caution please. Media are escalating anxiety by talking of a “killer virus” + “growing fears”. In truth, from what we currently know, 2019-nCoV has moderate transmissibility and relatively low pathogenicity. There is no reason to foster panic with exaggerated language.” | |||
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"Will HitForSix be replying to the message Exhib12 provided in response to the HitForSix message, “Why would anyone who gives half a fuck about the NHS vote Tory! Come on, we have to stay vaguely within the bounds of reality otherwise what's the point in discussing anything?" ? Exhib12 replied “What about the people who actually work in the NHS and vote Tory? My wife and daughter are both frontline and both voted Tory. Amongst us we have many friends who also work in the NHS and also voted Tory. All of these people give a damn sight more than half a fuck for the service they work in and because they actually work in it their voices are the ones that should be heard and listened to. The NHS is not a political football and should never ve used as such. None of the parties have a great record when it comes to funding because politics are played. NHS funding should be taken out of central politics altogether and managed by a cross party council which includes specialists who actually understands how the service works” I did reply. Pay attention. I can repeat. I have no clue why people vote against their own interests. And you would agree that “it’s not a political football and should never be used as such”? Well all parties use it as a political football, all the time. The NHS is inherently a part of politics. The way it's funded and managed should be discussed and debated. It is part of one of the many reasons I would not vote Tory." so on another thread about brexit you constantly denied yr a labour supporter now yr saying you wouldn’t vote Tory so who the hell do you vote for lol | |||
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"Will HitForSix be replying to the message Exhib12 provided in response to the HitForSix message, “Why would anyone who gives half a fuck about the NHS vote Tory! Come on, we have to stay vaguely within the bounds of reality otherwise what's the point in discussing anything?" ? Exhib12 replied “What about the people who actually work in the NHS and vote Tory? My wife and daughter are both frontline and both voted Tory. Amongst us we have many friends who also work in the NHS and also voted Tory. All of these people give a damn sight more than half a fuck for the service they work in and because they actually work in it their voices are the ones that should be heard and listened to. The NHS is not a political football and should never ve used as such. None of the parties have a great record when it comes to funding because politics are played. NHS funding should be taken out of central politics altogether and managed by a cross party council which includes specialists who actually understands how the service works” I did reply. Pay attention. I can repeat. I have no clue why people vote against their own interests. And you would agree that “it’s not a political football and should never be used as such”? Well all parties use it as a political football, all the time. The NHS is inherently a part of politics. The way it's funded and managed should be discussed and debated. It is part of one of the many reasons I would not vote Tory. so on another thread about brexit you constantly denied yr a labour supporter now yr saying you wouldn’t vote Tory so who the hell do you vote for lol " Well, I've got a bombshell for you. There are more than two parties. 
BOOM! | |||
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"Will HitForSix be replying to the message Exhib12 provided in response to the HitForSix message, “Why would anyone who gives half a fuck about the NHS vote Tory! Come on, we have to stay vaguely within the bounds of reality otherwise what's the point in discussing anything?" ? Exhib12 replied “What about the people who actually work in the NHS and vote Tory? My wife and daughter are both frontline and both voted Tory. Amongst us we have many friends who also work in the NHS and also voted Tory. All of these people give a damn sight more than half a fuck for the service they work in and because they actually work in it their voices are the ones that should be heard and listened to. The NHS is not a political football and should never ve used as such. None of the parties have a great record when it comes to funding because politics are played. NHS funding should be taken out of central politics altogether and managed by a cross party council which includes specialists who actually understands how the service works” I did reply. Pay attention. I can repeat. I have no clue why people vote against their own interests. And you would agree that “it’s not a political football and should never be used as such”? Well all parties use it as a political football, all the time. The NHS is inherently a part of politics. The way it's funded and managed should be discussed and debated. It is part of one of the many reasons I would not vote Tory. so on another thread about brexit you constantly denied yr a labour supporter now yr saying you wouldn’t vote Tory so who the hell do you vote for lol Well, I've got a bombshell for you. There are more than two parties.
BOOM!"so you don’t vote for any of the big two the only two that ever stand a chance of winning so you want change but you vote for a party that as no chance of ever delivering what you believe in fucking great Boom | |||
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"Will HitForSix be replying to the message Exhib12 provided in response to the HitForSix message, “Why would anyone who gives half a fuck about the NHS vote Tory! Come on, we have to stay vaguely within the bounds of reality otherwise what's the point in discussing anything?" ? Exhib12 replied “What about the people who actually work in the NHS and vote Tory? My wife and daughter are both frontline and both voted Tory. Amongst us we have many friends who also work in the NHS and also voted Tory. All of these people give a damn sight more than half a fuck for the service they work in and because they actually work in it their voices are the ones that should be heard and listened to. The NHS is not a political football and should never ve used as such. None of the parties have a great record when it comes to funding because politics are played. NHS funding should be taken out of central politics altogether and managed by a cross party council which includes specialists who actually understands how the service works” I did reply. Pay attention. I can repeat. I have no clue why people vote against their own interests. And you would agree that “it’s not a political football and should never be used as such”? Well all parties use it as a political football, all the time. The NHS is inherently a part of politics. The way it's funded and managed should be discussed and debated. It is part of one of the many reasons I would not vote Tory. so on another thread about brexit you constantly denied yr a labour supporter now yr saying you wouldn’t vote Tory so who the hell do you vote for lol Well, I've got a bombshell for you. There are more than two parties.
BOOM! so you don’t vote for any of the big two the only two that ever stand a chance of winning so you want change but you vote for a party that as no chance of ever delivering what you believe in fucking great Boom "What can you do? Don't like either of the main parties. But specifically hate the brass necks on the Tories who openly don't give a fuck about the people. (My evidence for this is their voting records, it's grim as fuck reading). And personally I don't feel like Labour offer enough in the way of change. I dunno. Does that help? | |||
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"Considering that NHS felt the pain of the conservatives’ austerity measures as much as our other services, was it hypocritical for tories and their voters to clap tonight or was it an acknowledgement of how important the NHS is? Not a statement or dig but a question as I’m wondering. " Tories are shit fake conservatives and will kill us by a thousand cuts. Labour will destroy us much much quicker through bigger socialist programmes that will swell , collapse and therefore need more layers of socialism finally leading to more authoritarianism the total collapse of the UK (you know the drill unless you do not know your history) Tough choice | |||
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"The lancet more or less said the UK gov has been totally incompetent, in its first stupid advise to herd spread the virus to everyone - by sticking a finger in the wind. They do not know who has this virus - unlike Germany who test everyone on the front line The test should have been in place weeks ago for ALL EMERGENCY WORKERS ! There was no plan in place boris was caught with his trousers down again... " I think the editor of The Lancet was also caught with his trousers down | |||
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"And what makes them really angry is that they know, deep down, that they enabled the governments whose policies led to underfunding of the NHS, the loss of over 20,000 full time police officers' jobs and a huge rise in homelessness. They voted for them." The above is part of my first post, which some objected to. Fair enough. However, it remains fact that these things happened and that, in England, at least, the state of the NHS, police forces and homelessness were caused by policies implemented by Governments voted for by Tories. All the denial, whataboutery - or clapping - in the world won't change that. Although borrowing large amounts of money might have; as they are now going to put to the test. | |||
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"Ha ha hit for six still at it ,blame the tories for everything,watch out he checks your grammar and twists every word ,even knows which paper you read,not.Saddo,must get hard with facts n figures ha ha,im bored" I last posted on here seven weeks ago. I have got no clue who you are or WTF you're talking about. Thanks for the shout out though. | |||
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"Ha ha hit for six still at it ,blame the tories for everything,watch out he checks your grammar and twists every word ,even knows which paper you read,not.Saddo,must get hard with facts n figures ha ha,im bored I last posted on here seven weeks ago. I have got no clue who you are or WTF you're talking about. Thanks for the shout out though. " | |||
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It's been nearly a year and this is where we're at...and what an eventful year it's been! | |||
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"Considering that NHS felt the pain of the conservatives’ austerity measures as much as our other services, was it hypocritical for tories and their voters to clap tonight or was it an acknowledgement of how important the NHS is? Not a statement or dig but a question as I’m wondering. " Very prescient. I think it shows quite clearly that you can give Baroness Dido Harding £37bn for the Test & Trace debacle, but if you aren’t in the Tory in crowd then ‘fuck you’. | |||
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