FabSwingers.com forum: Jet crash/us base hit

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Two reports this morning, one a boeing jet plane crashed (or shot) out of the sky in Tehran and also two missile strikes on a us base.

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By *ildjianMan
over a year ago

London

The Ukrainian jet crashed due to engine failure, I don't know where the possibly being shot down information came from.

I think the two missile attacks on US bases were minimal and designed to leave as few casualties as possible. Iran doesn't want this conflict and despite the media whipping up the frenzy of war, Iran will want to draw a line under this, it doesn't want conflict. This was as fragile as retaliation gets. Iran will keep it personal with Trump but will avoid conflict with the US.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Ukrainian jet crashed due to engine failure, I don't know where the possibly being shot down information came from.

Fingers and toes crossed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Ukrainian jet crashed due to engine failure, I don't know where the possibly being shot down information came from.

Fingers and toes crossed

I really hope Iran tries to return the favour and takes Trump out

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"The Ukrainian jet crashed due to engine failure, I don't know where the possibly being shot down information came from.

Fingers and toes crossed

I really hope Iran tries to return the favour and takes Trump out

"
Now that would be the most stupid thing to do.Do you really want another war which could escalate into ww3?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Earthquake overnight too. Trump stamping his feet again

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By *ildjianMan
over a year ago

London

Looking at the crash site photos, that doesn't look like engine failure...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Coincidence..my arse.

It was either accidentally brought down or on purpose.

The question is by who and why.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Iran seems like a right fun place at the moment. Fuck the funeral right up and then a plane comes crashing out the sky the night they launch missiles. The poor old Ayatollahs blood pressure must be sky high.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Looking at the crash site photos, that doesn't look like engine failure... "

The engine failure theory has now been withdrawn, pending an official investigation.

No emergency was declared, and the plane vanished off radar screens whilst climbing through 8000ft. This rather indicates a catastrophic failure like a bomb or a missle.

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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago

south west , continental

If it was engine failure after passing its mechanical safety check two days previous, then that is the fastest air crash incident investigation in living memory.

Aircraft and missiles flying around at approximately the same time does raise questions and concerns. It's too close for comfort and a very big coincidence that an aircraft is in multiple bits on the ground and everyone dead that was onboard.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Ukrainian jet crashed due to engine failure, I don't know where the possibly being shot down information came from.

Fingers and toes crossed

I really hope Iran tries to return the favour and takes Trump out

Now that would be the most stupid thing to do.Do you really want another war which could escalate into ww3?"

Trump in my view is probably the biggest threat to world peace, far worse than any Iranian

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"The Ukrainian jet crashed due to engine failure, I don't know where the possibly being shot down information came from.

Fingers and toes crossed

I really hope Iran tries to return the favour and takes Trump out

Now that would be the most stupid thing to do.Do you really want another war which could escalate into ww3?

Trump in my view is probably the biggest threat to world peace, far worse than any Iranian

The assassination of The President of United States, even if it is Trump, by a foreign power would definitely lead to a Declaration Of war by the US on which ever foreign power was responsible; and rightly so.

However I do agree with you that currently Trump is a far bigger threat to world peace than Iran.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Ukrainian jet crashed due to engine failure, I don't know where the possibly being shot down information came from.

Fingers and toes crossed

I really hope Iran tries to return the favour and takes Trump out

Now that would be the most stupid thing to do.Do you really want another war which could escalate into ww3?

Trump in my view is probably the biggest threat to world peace, far worse than any Iranian

However I do agree with you that currently Trump is a far bigger threat to world peace than Iran.

I'm sure a suitable proxy could be used

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Ukrainian jet crashed due to engine failure, I don't know where the possibly being shot down information came from.

Fingers and toes crossed

I really hope Iran tries to return the favour and takes Trump out

Now that would be the most stupid thing to do.Do you really want another war which could escalate into ww3?

Trump in my view is probably the biggest threat to world peace, far worse than any Iranian

However I do agree with you that currently Trump is a far bigger threat to world peace than Iran.

I'm sure a suitable proxy could be used

Going by your theory then surely shouldn't Iran take Trump's action as a declaration of war and in return declare war on the United States?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I unfortunately think America needs a bloody nose from a conflict of their making to make them reassess their place in this world we all have to share.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Ukraine (MH17) and Iran (IR655) in air disaster on night Iran launches calculated missile strike against US . . . the coincidences are, well, bizarre really.

Fertile ground for conspiracy theorists.

And Boeing's role in the aftermath is bound to be hamstrung by US sanctions on Iran.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"The Ukrainian jet crashed due to engine failure, I don't know where the possibly being shot down information came from.

Fingers and toes crossed

I really hope Iran tries to return the favour and takes Trump out

Now that would be the most stupid thing to do.Do you really want another war which could escalate into ww3?

Trump in my view is probably the biggest threat to world peace, far worse than any Iranian

However I do agree with you that currently Trump is a far bigger threat to world peace than Iran.

I'm sure a suitable proxy could be used

Going by your theory then surely shouldn't Iran take Trump's action as a declaration of war and in return declare war on the United States? "

If Iran thought it stood any chance of winning a conversational war against the US it probably would. However the Iranian leadership maybe mad but they are not stupid, unlikely the Donald who increasingly seems like he's not only mad but stupid too.

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By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

A 3.5 year old modern jet , serviced days before has a catastrophic , sudden incident minutes after take off at 8,000 feet. Engine failure?. One engine ?. No distress call. Just a normal ascent then nothing. No steady descent of controlled descent. Sounds like a mid air explosion to me . Jet engines fail, not explode .

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Personally I unfortunately think America needs a bloody nose from a conflict of their making to make them reassess their place in this world we all have to share. "

The US accounts for 5% of global population and 52% of global defence spending.

A military-industrial complex of such a vast scale continually needs fed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I unfortunately think America needs a bloody nose from a conflict of their making to make them reassess their place in this world we all have to share. "
.

A bloody nose, what you mean like Vietnam? Or the bay of pigs?.

There not going to re evaluate anything, there top dogs for now and there going to brutally beat down any bullshit state like Iran to reinforce that point, hell even Iran knows it, that's why it fired a shit load of missiles at fuck all, looks good to their own and nothing the US can use to return the favour.

The world war comes when the USA finally losses top dog status

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The irony, too, of an air disaster involving the two countries on the top of Trump's in-tray - Ukraine (impeachment) and Iran.

Iran has been the top of the in-tray since Trump signed an anti-Iran pact with Israel in Dec 2017.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I am deeply sad at the state of world right now. It seems as though you can't put a pin in an atlas and find many places that aren't at war, planning to be at war, Grinding the faces of its own people, or otherwise suffering at the hands of a foreign power. That's not including the millions around the globe in poverty, starving, flooded, on fire.. The list goes on... I mean what the actual fuck is going on.. Come on people, we got this far using some of our cranial potential.. Why can't we just get a grip..

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By *ab_SparklesWoman
over a year ago

sparkle Surprised

Haven't they said that the plane was Canada bound. Sad for all those who lost their lives. I do hope that it was a complete inccont accident.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Scheduled flight to Kiev. The Canada connection was a large group of Canadian nationals on their way home from a wedding.

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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago

south west , continental

"A 3.5 year old modern jet , serviced days before has a catastrophic , sudden incident minutes after take off at 8,000 feet. Engine failure?. One engine ?. No distress call. Just a normal ascent then nothing. No steady descent of controlled descent. Sounds like a mid air explosion to me . Jet engines fail, not explode ."

All the information is in the black boxes. Both of the boxes have been recovered however Iranian authorities are refusing to hand over the information.

Dare I say something doesn't sound right on this.

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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago

south west , continental

All the information is in the black boxes. Both of the boxes have been recovered however Iranian authorities are refusing to hand over the information.

Dare I say something doesn't sound right on this. "

Does Iran have the necessary equipment to retrieve the information from the black boxes?

I would think an international crash investigation team would need urgent access to these boxes. That would surely include the aircraft manufacturer, the UK, France, the US and the Ukrainians.

I am not convinced on the official engine failure statement,

There is very little information on this tragedy and that is a huge concern.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

45 Ukrainian technical experts arrived in Tehran this morning.

How much access they get will be telling.

Some sketchy mobile phone footage appears to show the plane on fire in a steep descent before crashing.

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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago

south west , continental

Yes it's all about access, a technical team will always want full access when investigating air crash incidents. Hopefully some initial findings from this team will come out soon.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

All the information is in the black boxes. Both of the boxes have been recovered however Iranian authorities are refusing to hand over the information.

Dare I say something doesn't sound right on this. "

Refusing to hand over information?

To whom?

This is Iran's investigation to lead.

Just as it would be the UK's if it happened in the UK.

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By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

All the information is in the black boxes. Both of the boxes have been recovered however Iranian authorities are refusing to hand over the information.

Dare I say something doesn't sound right on this.

Refusing to hand over information?

To whom?

This is Iran's investigation to lead.

Just as it would be the UK's if it happened in the UK."

Under global aviation rules Iran has the right to lead the investigation, but manufacturers are typically involved.

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By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

All the information is in the black boxes. Both of the boxes have been recovered however Iranian authorities are refusing to hand over the information.

Dare I say something doesn't sound right on this.

Refusing to hand over information?

To whom?

This is Iran's investigation to lead.

Just as it would be the UK's if it happened in the UK.

Under global aviation rules Iran has the right to lead the investigation, but manufacturers are typically involved.

And

Normally, the US National Transportation Safety Board would have a role to play in any international investigations involving US-made Boeings. But the board must act with permission and in accordance with legislation of the foreign country concerned.

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

It was America who downed all civillian flights in the area, not Iran.

The US knew a plane would come down and didnt want it to be American?

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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago

south west , continental

All the information is in the black boxes. Both of the boxes have been recovered however Iranian authorities are refusing to hand over the information.

Dare I say something doesn't sound right on this.

Refusing to hand over information?

To whom?

This is Iran's investigation to lead.

Just as it would be the UK's if it happened in the UK."

The flight recorder boxes should go to Boeing, the manufacturers, especially if they are damaged with possible memory loss. Boeing would have the means of data recovery. I would have thought that was the logical step in establishing the possible cause.

Or is it convenient that Iran will not involve the manufacturer and can just say what they like about memory loss. I wonder how much access the Ukrainian team is getting as well. Most of the wreckage would have been tampered with by now. Let's be honest here, we do not know what the hell is going on. We are only drip fed snippets, snippets of information from Iran.

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By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

All the information is in the black boxes. Both of the boxes have been recovered however Iranian authorities are refusing to hand over the information.

Dare I say something doesn't sound right on this.

Refusing to hand over information?

To whom?

This is Iran's investigation to lead.

Just as it would be the UK's if it happened in the UK.

Tv coverage shows all sorts of people , media , walking through the wreckage, picking up stuff, dropping it, moving it. Echoes of Russians shooting down MH17 when Uncle Tom cobley and all went through the wreckage before investigators arrived . The notion of a cordon does not occur in such places

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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago

south west , continental

All the information is in the black boxes. Both of the boxes have been recovered however Iranian authorities are refusing to hand over the information.

Dare I say something doesn't sound right on this.

Refusing to hand over information?

To whom?

This is Iran's investigation to lead.

Just as it would be the UK's if it happened in the UK.

Just what I was thinking.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

All the information is in the black boxes. Both of the boxes have been recovered however Iranian authorities are refusing to hand over the information.

Dare I say something doesn't sound right on this.

Refusing to hand over information?

To whom?

This is Iran's investigation to lead.

Just as it would be the UK's if it happened in the UK.

Under global aviation rules Iran has the right to lead the investigation, but manufacturers are typically involved.

Yes, except US firms are subject to US restrictions. And which US national in their right mind wants to travel to Iran?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

No, it's not the manufacturer who gets the data recorders - the conflict of interest is obvious.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

It seems by the latest report that it was shot down by a missile accidentally.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

This is what the Americans are floating, but I have not seen any evidence to support it.

I can understand Iran missile defences being primed. But this was an aircraft on the established take-off flight-path from Tehran International Airport.

It still strikes me as a truly bizarre coincidence that this disaster involves Ukraine and Iran - the two countries giving Trump the most trouble.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"This is what the Americans are floating, but I have not seen any evidence to support it.

I can understand Iran missile defences being primed. But this was an aircraft on the established take-off flight-path from Tehran International Airport.

It still strikes me as a truly bizarre coincidence that this disaster involves Ukraine and Iran - the two countries giving Trump the most trouble."
Im sure with all the satellite images they have these days that the truth will come out eventually.It does seem feasible though that someone might have thought it was an American attack so soon after shooting rockets at them,we will see.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

I wonder if this is why everybody’s favourite Middle Eastern good guys went from promising to fuck up the USA. To saying that the damp squib of a missile attack doing cosmetic damage to a desert was retaliation enough.

Could be they realised they fucked up big time and needed to concentrate on other things like covering this faux pas up.

Just floating that seeing as now this is the conspiracy forum.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"I wonder if this is why everybody’s favourite Middle Eastern good guys went from promising to fuck up the USA. To saying that the damp squib of a missile attack doing cosmetic damage to a desert was retaliation enough.

Could be they realised they fucked up big time and needed to concentrate on other things like covering this faux pas up.

Just floating that seeing as now this is the conspiracy forum.

"
Yeah its all speculation until its been fully investigated.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Could be they realised they fucked up big time and needed to concentrate on other things like covering this faux pas up.

Just floating that seeing as now this is the conspiracy forum.

Yeah its all speculation until its been fully investigated."

For some reason I don’t have much faith in the investigation from both sides.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I suspect the truth will be among the casualties of this, just as it was in Ukraine with MH17.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you were an Iranian right now, having had your top general assassinated by the USA only two days prior to this event would you really want to hand over the flight recorders to Boeing, especially as your representatives would not be allowed to enter America and no Americans in their right mind would want to go to Iran right now? Its not rocket science....or is it? Perhaps its the EU and Airbus trying to win the battle of the skies by downing as many Boeings as they can? 737- max (tick), 767 (tick)! Or maybe its the Russians or Chinese trying to get into the race? Honestly people - get some perspective

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Canada now chipping in with belief it was a missile.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"This is what the Americans are floating, but I have not seen any evidence to support it.

I can understand Iran missile defences being primed. But this was an aircraft on the established take-off flight-path from Tehran International Airport.

It still strikes me as a truly bizarre coincidence that this disaster involves Ukraine and Iran - the two countries giving Trump the most trouble."

Im surprised you haven't seen any evidence so far. Why is that do you think?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is what the Americans are floating, but I have not seen any evidence to support it.

I can understand Iran missile defences being primed. But this was an aircraft on the established take-off flight-path from Tehran International Airport.

It still strikes me as a truly bizarre coincidence that this disaster involves Ukraine and Iran - the two countries giving Trump the most trouble."

SA-15s in auto mode will fire two missiles at a target within 5-10 seconds of picking up a contact.

It's very likely that there was no human involvement at all in the decision making process.

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By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

Looks like the site has been bulldozed over already. A thorough investigation ?. What about re constructing the aircraft from the wreckage ?. Searching for evidence ?. And people on here talk about a US cover up. Jeez

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They're now suggesting that it was a missile strike.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The amateur footage is certainly compelling.

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By *em163Man
over a year ago

manchester

"The amateur footage is certainly compelling."
a missile was found near the crash site i think aswel

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

If iran don't comply with the caa over this then flights in and out of iran should be stopped. You can't let a country's political position get in the way of air safety.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"If iran don't comply with the caa over this then flights in and out of iran should be stopped. You can't let a country's political position get in the way of air safety. "

Or whoever the international equivalents are, i should have said. Not just caa, obs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I doubt anyone will be brought to trial over this.

In the case of flight MH17 the Russians charged over the downing of the airline haven’t been brought to trial .Russia will never hand them over .

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"If iran don't comply with the caa over this then flights in and out of iran should be stopped. You can't let a country's political position get in the way of air safety. "

Iran is a sovereign state. It is not required to comply with the CAA of the UK. Where do you get this idea from?

The Iranian equivalent of the air accident investigation branch leads the investigation, because the flight originated in Iran.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"If iran don't comply with the caa over this then flights in and out of iran should be stopped. You can't let a country's political position get in the way of air safety.

Iran is a sovereign state. It is not required to comply with the CAA of the UK. Where do you get this idea from?

The Iranian equivalent of the air accident investigation branch leads the investigation, because the flight originated in Iran."

Couldn't read just one post down i see...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The amateur footage is certainly compelling."

I agree. It seems to show what many of us thought - missile going through the sky, and point of impact. Explains the sudden loss of communication. Such a shame.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"If iran don't comply with the caa over this then flights in and out of iran should be stopped. You can't let a country's political position get in the way of air safety.

Iran is a sovereign state. It is not required to comply with the CAA of the UK. Where do you get this idea from?

The Iranian equivalent of the air accident investigation branch leads the investigation, because the flight originated in Iran.

Couldn't read just one post down i see...

Oh, you mean the international protocols governing air accident investigation . . . the same protocols that require Iran to conduct the investigation.

I saw a CT expert being interviewed this morning, suggesting this is indicative of a flaw in the software of the Soviet-designed missile batteries.

This was not the only flight taking off from Tehran. There was a succession of flights.

If the assertion of the 5-eyes group is correct, why did the software blip happen to a flight to Ukraine and none of the other flights preceding this one on exactly the same flight path?

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By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"If iran don't comply with the caa over this then flights in and out of iran should be stopped. You can't let a country's political position get in the way of air safety.

Iran is a sovereign state. It is not required to comply with the CAA of the UK. Where do you get this idea from?

The Iranian equivalent of the air accident investigation branch leads the investigation, because the flight originated in Iran.

Couldn't read just one post down i see...

Oh, you mean the international protocols governing air accident investigation . . . the same protocols that require Iran to conduct the investigation.

I saw a CT expert being interviewed this morning, suggesting this is indicative of a flaw in the software of the Soviet-designed missile batteries.

This was not the only flight taking off from Tehran. There was a succession of flights.

If the assertion of the 5-eyes group is correct, why did the software blip happen to a flight to Ukraine and none of the other flights preceding this one on exactly the same flight path?"

So it was a missile?

A Russian missile system operated by a bunch of murdering trigger happy maniacs . And some people find it hard to believe Iran we’re responsible ?. Jeez

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If iran don't comply with the caa over this then flights in and out of iran should be stopped. You can't let a country's political position get in the way of air safety.

Iran is a sovereign state. It is not required to comply with the CAA of the UK. Where do you get this idea from?

The Iranian equivalent of the air accident investigation branch leads the investigation, because the flight originated in Iran.

Couldn't read just one post down i see...

Oh, you mean the international protocols governing air accident investigation . . . the same protocols that require Iran to conduct the investigation.

I saw a CT expert being interviewed this morning, suggesting this is indicative of a flaw in the software of the Soviet-designed missile batteries.

This was not the only flight taking off from Tehran. There was a succession of flights.

If the assertion of the 5-eyes group is correct, why did the software blip happen to a flight to Ukraine and none of the other flights preceding this one on exactly the same flight path?"
.

Strong is the tin foil in this one

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By *em163Man
over a year ago

manchester

"If iran don't comply with the caa over this then flights in and out of iran should be stopped. You can't let a country's political position get in the way of air safety.

Iran is a sovereign state. It is not required to comply with the CAA of the UK. Where do you get this idea from?

The Iranian equivalent of the air accident investigation branch leads the investigation, because the flight originated in Iran.

Couldn't read just one post down i see...

Oh, you mean the international protocols governing air accident investigation . . . the same protocols that require Iran to conduct the investigation.

I saw a CT expert being interviewed this morning, suggesting this is indicative of a flaw in the software of the Soviet-designed missile batteries.

This was not the only flight taking off from Tehran. There was a succession of flights.

If the assertion of the 5-eyes group is correct, why did the software blip happen to a flight to Ukraine and none of the other flights preceding this one on exactly the same flight path?

So it was a missile?

A Russian missile system operated by a bunch of murdering trigger happy maniacs . And some people find it hard to believe Iran we’re responsible ?. Jeez"
the plane has small holes all over defintly wasnt caused by a fault

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Im just saying if there's a white wash Iran should suffer. What if there actually is a component on the 737 800 that is defective and likely to produce more accidents, and Iran doesn't let the international community get eyes on this data... more people die.

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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago

south west , continental

This is why it's important for the aircraft manufacturer to analyse the flight recorders. The Iranians could involve other nations such as France but they are allied with the US or even New Zealand, they are pretty neutral these days. If it was an engine fault the manufacturer needs the data to prevent further malfunction of engines.

We will never know the truth, we are just drip fed shite on a daily basis as long as it fits in with the agendas.

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By *em163Man
over a year ago

manchester

"Im just saying if there's a white wash Iran should suffer. What if there actually is a component on the 737 800 that is defective and likely to produce more accidents, and Iran doesn't let the international community get eyes on this data... more people die. "
if they had done nothing wrong and it was indeed defective they would just hand it over problem with that is it was checked over before hand iran knows someone messed up this why they wont hand it over

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The only certainty in this is that US will want the blame attached to Iran and Iran will want the blame attached to US (Boeing).

The casualties are victims in more ways than one - victims of the escalation in conflict and victims of the information war.

I think anyone searching for the truth needs to process all claims and counter-claims with a healthy dose of cynicism.

Take a step back, look at the sequence of events, the responses and the coincidences and keep asking yourself why.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

I can’t believe everybody are making such accusations about Fabs favourite theocracy.

The Iranians generous policy on homosexuality was being cooed over last week.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

In Western eyes, this puts Iran on the back foot.

"All is well," Trump tweeted after both events - the strike on US bases and the destruction of a Ukraine commercial flight.

Watch his subsequent press conference and his narrative has changed - he wants the focus to move away from the tit for tat to the JCPOA governing the Iranian nuclear programme.

Trump seemed very satisfied with whatever he accomplished in the context of the assassination of the General.

Keep in mind,too, this is not unilateral action by the US - the pact between the US and Israel signed in Dec 17 commits both to working together to counter Iran in 4 key strategic areas.

Neither should the cyber capabilities of all three parties be overlooked.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"I can’t believe everybody are making such accusations about Fabs favourite theocracy.

The Iranians generous policy on homosexuality was being cooed over last week. "

Classic straw man

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"I can’t believe everybody are making such accusations about Fabs favourite theocracy.

The Iranians generous policy on homosexuality was being cooed over last week.

Classic straw man"

It's true homosexuals supporting Iran, are like chickens supporting kfc..

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Who is supporting Iran? I have not seen any posts like that.

More straw man stuff.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I can’t believe everybody are making such accusations about Fabs favourite theocracy.

The Iranians generous policy on homosexuality was being cooed over last week. "
.

Your forgetting on the intersectionality spectrum Iranians belong to two oppressed groups being non white and being Muslim and this puts them way ahead of you as a straight white man (the bogey man).

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

"I can’t believe everybody are making such accusations about Fabs favourite theocracy.

The Iranians generous policy on homosexuality was being cooed over last week. .

Your forgetting on the intersectionality spectrum Iranians belong to two oppressed groups being non white and being Muslim and this puts them way ahead of you as a straight white man (the bogey man).

How dare you assume my gender and ethnicity!

You only got one correct

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I can’t believe everybody are making such accusations about Fabs favourite theocracy.

The Iranians generous policy on homosexuality was being cooed over last week. .

Your forgetting on the intersectionality spectrum Iranians belong to two oppressed groups being non white and being Muslim and this puts them way ahead of you as a straight white man (the bogey man).

How dare you assume my gender and ethnicity!

You only got one correct

"
.

None of that matters, you talk the talk of the straight white man, you've clearly been infected

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Douglas Murray gave a great quote in his new book when he referencing a big tech boss who was gay but had not said the right woke statement, the crazy leftist declared him to be "just having sex with men doesn't make him gay".

What they mean by that is if you disagree with them your clearly not in there group even if your in there group

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Under global aviation rules Iran has the right to lead the investigation, but manufacturers are typically involved.

Iran has invited Boeing to send a representative to take part in examination of the data and voice recorder.

That may require a waiver from Trump because of the sanctions.

Will the US share its "intelligence" with the investigation?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Under global aviation rules Iran has the right to lead the investigation, but manufacturers are typically involved.

Iran has invited Boeing to send a representative to take part in examination of the data and voice recorder.

That may require a waiver from Trump because of the sanctions.

Will the US share its "intelligence" with the investigation?

"
.

You seemed pretty bitter last week when telling me about the US who shot an Iranian plane down by mistake also many years ago.

Do you think the Iranians will be giving the guy who fired the rocket a ticker tape parade or a prison sentence?.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

You seem well informed about missile defence batteries. Are they automated or manual?

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By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

Under global aviation rules Iran has the right to lead the investigation, but manufacturers are typically involved.

Iran has invited Boeing to send a representative to take part in examination of the data and voice recorder.

That may require a waiver from Trump because of the sanctions.

Will the US share its "intelligence" with the investigation?

Ha ha ha ..... logic isn’t a strong point is it .?. It looks like a missile strike. Aviation experts say it’s the most likely explanation; 3 governments have intelligence confirming it, eye witness accounts support it . Iran deny it. US et al produce the intelligence . And Iran will then admit it????. Duh.

Salisbury anyone? We didn’t do it. It wasn’t our poison. These kgb guys were just tourists flying in and out for a couple of days. Let’s see the intelligence so we will just continue to deny it? Duh

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By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"You seem well informed about missile defence batteries. Are they automated or manual?"

Last time I used one they were both

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Under global aviation rules Iran has the right to lead the investigation, but manufacturers are typically involved.

Iran has invited Boeing to send a representative to take part in examination of the data and voice recorder.

That may require a waiver from Trump because of the sanctions.

Will the US share its "intelligence" with the investigation?

You clearly are more interested in political point scoring than providing the relatives with an explanation why their loved ones are dead.

If the US possesses information about the cause of an air disaster, the right thing to do is to make that information available to the investigation.

Otherwise it just becomes an exercise in propaganda.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Maybe an American agent fired the Russian missile at the Ukrainian aircraft...

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By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

Under global aviation rules Iran has the right to lead the investigation, but manufacturers are typically involved.

Iran has invited Boeing to send a representative to take part in examination of the data and voice recorder.

That may require a waiver from Trump because of the sanctions.

Will the US share its "intelligence" with the investigation?

You clearly are more interested in political point scoring than providing the relatives with an explanation why their loved ones are dead.

If the US possesses information about the cause of an air disaster, the right thing to do is to make that information available to the investigation.

Otherwise it just becomes an exercise in propaganda."

The right thing to do is to preserve the accident area for investigators to examine instead of bulldozing it. The right thing to do is to involve governments of the deceased. The right thing to do is to have the data recorders examined by those who know what they are doing . The right thing to do is to conduct an investigation that is impartial and inclusive . If these internationally accepted norms were adopted then it might be helpful to share sensitive intelligence . But if the data recorders show a missile strike and debris shows a missile strike , there is no need for intelligence to be shared which could compromise US intelligence gathering capabilities . Unfortunately , anyone with a brain knows the data boxes will never have their contents revealed and the debris field will never be independently examined . The Iranians have the capability to explain to the victims relatives what happened but they will choose not to give any explanation

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/01/20 13:27:28]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just like flight MH17 nobody will be culpable, nobody will be tried in court.

It’s very sad and shameful.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Just like flight MH17 nobody will be culpable, nobody will be tried in court.

It’s very sad and shameful.

Well, the state commission set up by Ukraine says it will be drawing on evidence from the MH17 investigation (which I think was led by the Netherlands as the origin of the flight).

Officials from the state Commission have visited the crash site and are part of the investigation.

Canada's national transport safety body has accepted an invitation to take part in the investigation.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The outbound flight landed in Tehran 0105hrs.

The Iran missile launches against US bases were 0130hrs.

Nine departures from Tehran International Airport were scheduled 0400-0500, three between 0500-0600 and four between 0600-0700.

PS752 was scheduled to depart 0515 but delayed by a technical fault until 0600.

I think the airline and the airport have questions to answer about the wisdom of operating flights when Iran has just launched missiles and there is a possibility of US counter-strike.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The outbound flight landed in Tehran 0105hrs.

The Iran missile launches against US bases were 0130hrs.

Nine departures from Tehran International Airport were scheduled 0400-0500, three between 0500-0600 and four between 0600-0700.

PS752 was scheduled to depart 0515 but delayed by a technical fault until 0600.

I think the airline and the airport have questions to answer about the wisdom of operating flights when Iran has just launched missiles and there is a possibility of US counter-strike."
.

The Iranians shot it down probably by accident, somebody wasn't randomly just filming the sky in the early morning and just happened to catch a rocket launch and connect with the aircraft.

The Iranians were aware of the aircraft they didn't realise it was commercial for one reason or another, they were ordered to shoot it down, they filmed it being shot down, they filmed it crashing to the ground.

The Ukrainian shoot down happened the same way, mistaken identity.

The US shot down the Iranian plane in the same way, mistaken identity, shit happens.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I wondered, too, why anyone would be filming the sky with a mobile phone in the dark at 6am.

Flights were taking off as normal and this one was proceeding as normal.

In any militarized environment, the flight paths of scheduled traffic will be known to those in military control centres.

The transponders will also be "squawking" the civil codes.

So the defence forces must be able to distinguish between scheduled and unidentified projectiles in the air.

This flight, albeit a bit late in taking off, was the 13th or so to depart that morning.

It was ascending on a straight trajectory taking it away from Tehran.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

There is a key difference between this, MH17 and IR655.

In Ukraine and the Gulf, these were rebels and foreign powers operating out with the control of that country's airspace.

The military sky-watchers in this case will be integrated with civilian control of the airspace.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Iran says it didn't shoot it down. So i guess there's just something wrong with 737-800s that just makes them explode occasionally. *shrugs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Russian missile defence systems in both recent cases seem unreliable in distinguishing commercial jets from military jets.

Not a great selling point for future customers.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Russian missile defence systems in both recent cases seem unreliable in distinguishing commercial jets from military jets.

Not a great selling point for future customers."

Best tell Turkey then, as they are buying a Russian system.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Russian missile defence systems in both recent cases seem unreliable in distinguishing commercial jets from military jets.

Not a great selling point for future customers.

Best tell Turkey then, as they are buying a Russian system. "

I’ll email erdogan later..

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Ukraine says it is one of four possibilities being considered by its team in Iran.

Neither is the US making any sort of definitive statement, as if it has proof of what happened.

It's all "could have", "may have" etc.

These things usually take months, sometimes years, to unfold properly.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Iranian military now conceding it did shoot down the airliner.

I saw Sky News this morning drawing a parallel with IR655 in 1988.

For me, there is a different potential parallel here.

For several days, the country's leadership has been categorically rejecting this.

Presumably, because the military said it was untrue.

Echoes of the Chernobyl disaster.

Gorbachev tells the story how it precipitated the end of communism.

When the leadership realised the system they presided over had been pulling the wool over their eyes about what actually happened.

Someone here has been pulling the wool over the eyes, too.

It will be interesting to see what effect this has in the longer term.

A calamitous mistake that has left dozens of its own citizens dead.

Time for introspection on both sides.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

whilst western countries were claiming that Iran shot it down... they could deny and claim western bias...

the game changer was Bellingcat.....

because they were able to geotag all the footage, they could put out a very clear narrative that could not be disputed...

they put out info the western powers didn't

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Thanks. Had no idea about Bellingcat.

The comments are just as fascinating as the article.

One poster saying charges are being brought against a culpable individual.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Thanks. Had no idea about Bellingcat.

The comments are just as fascinating as the article.

One poster saying charges are being brought against a culpable individual.

"
Some poor soldier just doing as his told will get the blame.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Maybe. But someone needs to be held to account. The families deserve justice.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Fuck wits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wondered, too, why anyone would be filming the sky with a mobile phone in the dark at 6am.

Flights were taking off as normal and this one was proceeding as normal.

In any militarized environment, the flight paths of scheduled traffic will be known to those in military control centres.

The transponders will also be "squawking" the civil codes.

So the defence forces must be able to distinguish between scheduled and unidentified projectiles in the air.

This flight, albeit a bit late in taking off, was the 13th or so to depart that morning.

It was ascending on a straight trajectory taking it away from Tehran."
.

I hate to say I told you so but yea I told you so.

Iran has some highly trained troops but in general there not that well trained and when you put sophisticated shit into the hands of not well trained Muppets aiming at stuff 12,000 feet away you get right cock ups, especially in highly charged atmospheres where you've just fired a shit load of missiles into an American airbase hitting God knows what at that point in time.

Generally speaking soldiers of any side don't blow civilians out of the sky for laughs but shit often hits the fan by accident.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Yes, it's been a bad week all round for Iran. Their competence on a global stage isn't good.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes, it's been a bad week all round for Iran. Their competence on a global stage isn't good."
.

It's not really Iran, it's some fuckwits in charge (not the democratic ones) although to be honest there not great either but it's the spiritual leaders that need booting out, when a country is given governance by "a spiritual leader" you know it's going to end badly, history has proved that which is why the West is best because they learnt that lesson long ago

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